48MoH: A new foundation or fresh coat of paint?

[Blackjack]

A new foundation or fresh coat of paint?
by Jesse Blanchard

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/spurs1215.jpg

The thing about predicting endings, do it long enough and eventually they will prove pretty accurate some day. Tim Duncan and the San Antonio Spurs have made fools of such scribes for so long most are afraid to write the eulogy until after Duncan and Gregg Popovich ride off together into the sunset.

If ever anyone earned such respect it’s Tim Duncan. But it has been three seasons since the San Antonio Spurs last won a title, and for the first time since being eliminated by the Dallas Mavericks in 2006, there are no major injuries to pin the blame on.

As I said in my previous post (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/05/11/r-c-buford-trading-tony-parker-would-be-crazy/), anytime a team is swept (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/05/09/san-antonio-spurs-101-phoenix-suns-107-the-phoenix-suns-were-simply-a-better-team/) a busy summer should be expected. Over the next few weeks we at 48MoH will be exploring each member of the roster and how they fit in with the Spurs moving forward, but before any offseason speculation can begin one question must be answered.

Have the San Antonio Spurs taken the core of Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker as far as they can go as viable championship contenders?

Keep reading → (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/2010/05/17/a-new-foundation-or-fresh-coat-of-paint/#more-8304)

[Chubby_Love]

The Big three are still the big three, but having someone like Richard Jefferson, and a bench that's older than dirt, and slower than shit isn't a good mix. Upgrade that bench, and add a big man to the Mix, and you'll see different results next season. :flag:

[DesignatedT]

it was a good read. should be an interesting off-season. that's for sure.

[slick'81]

agreed just a few tweaks are needed to improve the core is obviously in place take boston they have pierce,rondo and kg only rj is no ray allen and boston has parts that contribute off the pine.Can the spurs find the right pieces this off season?!?!

[Mark in Austin]

The article makes a good point about defending the pick and roll - Duncan isn't as mobile as he once was and Bowen isn't there to fight through the screens anymore.

To me the key to the offseason is getting a read on Splitters abilities vs NBA talent. If he can be a solid defender in the Spurs system that can stay on the court with Duncan then that really helps stabilize the defense.

But the other weakness that the article didn't seem to mention is 3point shooting. For the Spurs it disappeared in the playoffs. I'm sure the Spurs will be looking for a player who can defend better than Roger Mason and hit the corner three consistently. Working out Paul George from Fresno State tells me they have already started this search (again).

If Splitter can grasp the Spurs defense (get him over here ASAP this summer to start workouts / training) and they reload on shooters that play at least average defense, they'll be in good shape.

The article also addresses one of the major flaws in the "Trade Parker" meme. You have to get something in return that improves the team in addition to a starting quality PG. I put the chances of this happening at 3%.

[admiralsnackbar]

Good piece, Blackjack.

[Dex]

Did the Spurs use their bi-annual exception last year, or do they have it this year?

[Mel_13]

Did the Spurs use their bi-annual exception last year, or do they have it this year?

Didn't use it last year.

[Dex]

Didn't use it last year.

Groovy. :greedy

[wildbill2u]

Duncan needs to play permanently as a 5. He can't deal with mobile big men PF and has an easier time against most of the current crop of centers who also aren't all that mobile.

Splitter can play some PF because of his mobility. and certainly can play center.

That makes it tough for Blair to fit in because (a)he's not tall enough to get his shot off and (b) he's not mobile enough to move out to PF. I still don't see him as the answer to the backup center position.

[spursfaninla]

Duncan needs to play permanently as a 5. He can't deal with mobile big men PF and has an easier time against most of the current crop of centers who also aren't all that mobile.

Splitter can play some PF because of his mobility. and certainly can play center.

That makes it tough for Blair to fit in because (a)he's not tall enough to get his shot off and (b) he's not mobile enough to move out to PF. I still don't see him as the answer to the backup center position.

I don't know why you would say blair is not mobile enough to play pf.

He is not a slasher, so he is not going to drive in like lamar odom from the 3pt line, but that is really a sf game.

He does not have an outside jumper yet, but that is not a mobility issue.

I would like to hear you clarify that thought.

[SenorSpur]

Duncan needs to play permanently as a 5. He can't deal with mobile big men PF and has an easier time against most of the current crop of centers who also aren't all that mobile.

By the way, I've always wanted to know WHY Duncan is so insistent on being referred to as a PF, while smaller guys like Kurt Thomas, Dice, Bonner are misplaced and classified as centers? It's especially interesting because Duncan has actually manned the 5-spot for years.

[DPG21920]

I just disagree that the Spurs are two rotation players away from being a legit contender. Even if you get Tiago and Bell, which most would agree would be a solid pair, is that really enough? I don't see it as so.

They also need a trade of RJ's contract that can bring back a better fit.

[vander]

new foundation please

[Gino20]

I just disagree that the Spurs are two rotation players away from being a legit contender. Even if you get Tiago and Bell, which most would agree would be a solid pair, is that really enough? I don't see it as so.

They also need a trade of RJ's contract that can bring back a better fit.

I agree! As excited as I am about the possibility of Tiago joining the Spurs, I dont think it is enough. I think TD needs help on both ends of the court these days (low block). I think Tiago can provide alot on the defensive end, but I don't know about his offensive game. Anyway, you can't rely on a rookie to play heavy minutes and get far. I don't know the options that are available, but one that might be possible to snag is Kaman. Not the greatest, but I definately think he could help the team alot on both ends. If you can snag him, and use the mid-level on Tiago that would definately clear up the bigs. Perhaps I am dreaming haha!

[TDMVPDPOY]

blair is good enough to destroy the other teams big men scrubs off the bench

splitter, bell, long 3, backup pg....call it a summer

[MaNu4Tres]

Trading Richard Jefferson's contract for a "better fit" is virtually impossible to do.

There's less than a handful of guys out there to begin with that are a great fit for the Spurs. Three criteria exists for such a player IMO:
1) Defensive oriented- great one on one perimeter defender
2) Can hit the three with consistency
3) Long enough to be as effective guarding the longer, taller wings in the league such as( Melo, Durant, LeBron, Roy, Kobe, Joe Johnson ect.)

Wings 6'7 and above (exception Lee)on the top of my head that exhibit one criteria (defensive oriented):In order IMO

1. Thabo Sefolosha
2. Luc Mbah a Moute
3. Trevor Ariza
4. Gerald Wallace
5. Shane Battier
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Courtney Lee
8. Nicolas Batum
9. Ronnie Brewer
10. Martell Webster

Now you filter those guys into the category: Can spread the floor by shooting the 3 ball with consistency.

1. Thabo Sefolosha (barely)
3. Trevor Ariza
5. Shane Battier
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Courtney Lee
8. Nicolas Batum
10. Martell Webster

Now lets see how available these 7 guys are:

1. Thabo Sefolosha- Signed a very cheap-valued extension with the Thunder that runs through 2014. Virtually impossible to pry away from Thunder. Only makes roughly 3 million a year. Virtually untouchable.
2. Trevor Ariza- IMO was underpaid by the Rockets with the MLE. Highly doubt Rockets are looking to trade him due to his relatively cheap contract for the amount of production he puts on the court on both ends. Most likely not available
3. Shane Battier - Could be available at the trade deadline if Rockets aren't in contention due to his expiring contract. Won't know his availability til mid-February. Even so it's less likely Morey gives such a valuable piece to a division rival.
4. Stephen Jackson- Leading the Bobcats to the playoffs for the first time makes him virtually untouchable being owned by Jordan's competitive spirit, unless Bobcats are the Nets of the league by the trading deadline. Then Bobcats may consider parting ways with their long-term expensive contracts. (Won't know his availability til mid-February)
5. Courtney Lee - Still on a very cheap rookie scale salary. His productivity output surpasses his salary by a wide margin. Making his availability less likely.
6. Nicolas Batum- See above
7. Martell Webster- Has a contract that pays him 4.8 next year and 5.2 the next with a team option for the 3rd year in 2013. Could be trade-able with the improvement of Batum, if they draft a wing with the 22nd pick. They were interested in Jefferson at the 2009 trading deadline. Jefferson plus 20th pick for Webster+Pryzbilla's expiring(player value insignificant with torn patella tendon)+ maybe Fernandez or Cunningham may get the Blazers to think for at least a second. (Possibly available)

As you can see there's virtually no "better fit's" out there that are realistically possible for the Spurs to attain.

All in all, Spurs fan's underestimated the value Bruce Bowen brought to the Spurs. He was a key component in the efficient well-oiled machine on both ends of the court that lasted from 2003 to 2008. Looking for such a player will be virtually impossible to attain.


IMO With this reasoning Spurs are better off keeping Jefferson. Perhaps a summer with Chip can do wonders for his confidence and revitalize the 40% clip he shot from the distance with the Bucks just a year ago.


In regard of the thread...

IMO These things need to happen for Spurs to have a better chance at competing for a championship:

1. Sign Splitter

2. Find a 5th wing to step up and be consistent on both ends night in and night out. ( Through the draft, free agency or have Hairston or Gee really improve and step up to the plate.) *Preferably a wing with height and length*

3. The improvement of Richard Jefferson. Sick Chip Engelland on him the entire summer and revamp his confidence. A more consistent Jefferson on the offensive end would do wonders for his overall hustle and activity on the defensive end.

4. The improvement of Blair and Hill.

Those 4 things plus Manu and Tony having the summer off to rest and work on their respective games can catapult the Spurs into contention for number 5. IMO

In other words....A fresh coat of paint

[Gagnrath]

I still look at the biggest liability being more the lack of a bigman who can play large minutes than anything else. Jefferson wasn't what we had hoped but he's more vastly overpaid than useless. I don't know that splitter is the answer, I do know that Duncan is currently more center than powerforward (was true for 2008-2009 and 09-10 before that no. Its a mobility issue more than anything else. As well as the trend of forwards away from the rim.

Speed and athleticism isn't the only answer if it was Mahinmi would have seen lots of playing time. with drive and athleticism on the current spurs team comes alot of opportunity for scoring though he likely wouldn't have much called for him.

Blair is in a tough spot he's kinda short to go against some of the bigger players inside, and kinda slow against some of the faster players outside. He's not going to get faster but has shown the ability to learn from fill and be able to predict where people will be by knowing their tenancies Great reserve to have on the bench and start when the match-ups look to be there, He's not as immobile as what some people like to believe but he's not really quick either.

I don't know who the spurs really should go for in the draft as anyone who has the physical tools to be a high end powerforward or small forward isn't going to be there at 20 and be close to ready mentally or skills wise.

I really like the current spurs guard rolls of Parker, Manu, Hill and Temple, Pretty young overall. has decent shooting size and speed. All are capable of distributing or scoring as needed.

Small forward is Jefferson then who? This needs something done here.

Power Forward Dyess, Blair, Duncan, Bonner. Dyess is old and can only show about 1/3rd the games somewhat mobility limited. Blair situational and more described above. Bonner specialist mostly bench guy, Duncan getting really mobility limited to call a powerforward at this point.

Center Duncan, ?Splitter? Mahinmi, Blair. Duncan needs to have a decent powerforward pairs with him or there are match-up problems, as speed is lacking. Splitter will he come> Is he NBA ready? Mahinmi, will his mind ever stop the fouling? Blair Why oh why aren't you 3 inches taller man? please grow over the summer..... (yeah I know not happening.)

[Newton]

All in all, Spurs fan's underestimated the value Bruce Bowen brought to the Spurs. He was a key cognate in the efficient well-oiled machine on both ends of the court that lasted from 2003 to 2008. Looking for such a player will be virtually impossible to succumb.


I think you dropped your thesaurus somewhere back there.

[MaNu4Tres]

I think you dropped your thesaurus somewhere back there.

That is why I proof-read before submitting any final copies to my professors.

Luckily this is just a sports forum.

Slight mistake. Fixed. :toast

[Mel_13]

IMO These things need to happen for Spurs to have a better chance at competing for a championship:

1. Sign Splitter

2. Find a 5th wing to step up and be consistent on both ends night in and night out. ( Through the draft, free agency or have Hairston or Gee really improve and step up to the plate.) *Preferably a wing with height and length*

3. The improvement of Richard Jefferson. Sick Chip Engelland on him the entire summer and revamp his confidence. A more consistent Jefferson on the offensive end would do wonders for his overall hustle and activity on the defensive end.

4. The improvement of Blair and Hill.

Those 4 things plus Manu and Tony having the summer off to rest and work on their respective games can catapult the Spurs into contention for number 5. IMO

In other words....A fresh coat of paint

:tu

Good breakdown on the RJ issue. I agree with your conclusion on that as well as your conclusion that 'a fresh coat of paint' will be the path followed this summer. 'A new foundation' will be pursued after the current foundation retires in 2012. The only nit I'd pick is that I would have Tony and Manu resting this summer as #1 and Splitter as #2.

[DontStopBelieving]

No way do we blow it up.

Although a fresh coat of paint may not be enough to even make it back to the WCF, its worth a shot.

[Blackjack]

Son-of-a-bitch . . .

Well, I had one of those really long posts. Keyword: Had. :depressed

[Newton]

That is why I proof-read before submitting any final copies to my professors.

Luckily this is just a sports forum.

Slight mistake. Fixed. :toast

It was all in fun, just joking around. No offense was meant.

[Agloco]

You can throw all of the paint on this that you want to. Hell, add some sport stripes with lighting package, brembo brakes and dubs while you're at it.

The engine still has 200k on it and it's not exactly performing like a diesel now is it?

Overhaul that engine, it's what actually moves the Watermelon Wagon down the street and over the finish line.

[J.T.]

I would trade Tim Duncan to the Mavs if I was RC.

[MaNu4Tres]

You can throw all of the paint on this that you want to. Hell, add some sport stripes with lighting package, brembo brakes and dubs while you're at it.

The engine still has 200k on it and it's not exactly performing like a diesel now is it?

Overhaul that engine, it's what actually moves the Watermelon Wagon down the street and over the finish line.

Same could be said for Boston, but they have parts around the engine that have improved while the engine has gained significant miles.

[Blackjack]

Trading Richard Jefferson's contract for a "better fit" is virtually impossible to do.

Fit? Probably. Better production? Maybe not -- I'd be on the phone with Philly and GS a.s.a.p.


There's less than a handful of guys out there to begin with that are a great fit for the Spurs. Three criteria exists for such a player IMO:
1) Defensive oriented- great one on one perimeter defender
2) Can hit the three with consistency
3) Long enough to be as effective guarding the longer, taller wings in the league such as( Melo, Durant, LeBron, Roy, Kobe, Joe Johnson ect.)

7. Martell Webster- Has a contract that pays him 4.8 next year and 5.2 the next with a team option for the 3rd year in 2013. Could be trade-able with the improvement of Batum, if they draft a wing with the 22nd pick. They were interested in Jefferson at the 2009 trading deadline. Jefferson plus 20th pick for Webster+Pryzbilla's expiring(player value insignificant with torn patella tendon)+ maybe Fernandez or Cunningham may get the Blazers to think for at least a second. (Possibly available)

Really, he's probably the closest thing they could find to a "fit." I'm skeptical of just how good of a defender he is -- as I haven't seen him enough in the type of matchups I'd have liked to make my best judgment -- but I've always been intrigued by him and I'm not sure there's a player that possesses a better skillset for the Spurs that's somewhat attainable.


All in all, Spurs fan's underestimated the value Bruce Bowen brought to the Spurs. He was a key component in the efficient well-oiled machine on both ends of the court that lasted from 2003 to 2008. Looking for such a player will be virtually impossible to attain.

Not this guy. And with each passing year, I only appreciate him more and more (and it's the same with all their championship role-players). There'll never be another Bruce but it'd be nice to see a poor-man's version (and no, that ain't Bogans -- I'm sure he'll be back, though :lol).



IMO With this reasoning Spurs are better off keeping Jefferson. Perhaps a summer with Chip can do wonders for his confidence and revitalize the 40% clip he shot from the distance with the Bucks just a year ago.

What if they feel that way about Bogans? :(


IMO These things need to happen for Spurs to have a better chance at competing for a championship:

1. Sign Splitter

2. Find a 5th wing to step up and be consistent on both ends night in and night out. ( Through the draft, free agency or have Hairston or Gee really improve and step up to the plate.) *Preferably a wing with height and length*

3. The improvement of Richard Jefferson. Sick Chip Engelland on him the entire summer and revamp his confidence. A more consistent Jefferson on the offensive end would do wonders for his overall hustle and activity on the defensive end.

4. The improvement of Blair and Hill.

Those 4 things plus Manu and Tony having the summer off to rest and work on their respective games can catapult the Spurs into contention for number 5. IMO

In other words....A fresh coat of paint

Pretty much. And I agree with the notion that what we're likely to see is a fresh coat of paint -- add Splitter, their first-rounder, find a adequate "centerpiece" and count on the internal growth from the team in the form of a revitalized Parker, a second year for RJ and the development of Blair, Hill and THG. I think that's pretty much the offseason's goal.

But, in the end, it always comes back to one thing: health.

It's a tenuous position to have to rely on a Big 3 with as much mileage as the Tim, Tony and Manu do, but it is what it is. There's really no other option. And it's not only about being healthy, but being healthy at the right time -- as we're seeing with the Celtics at the moment. The Big 3 is still what's going to get it done in the end.

So while there are about two somewhat realistic trades I'd like to see happen (RJ for Iguodala or RJ for Maggette and Randolph -- and I'm perfectly aware there'd have to be some filler involved in both) and one I'd think about but's not quite as realistic or even defined (Tony for Mayo, a decent point and maybe a pick), I just don't see anything like that going down; but I'd pull the trigger on the two RJ deals in a heartbeat.

Bottom line, if the Spurs are going to get one for the thumb next year, just about everything is going to have to go their way. And I mean, everything.

[The Truth #6]

In my opinion to get back to the title we would need to improve the bench as others have stated, and build a time machine to get Tim and Manu back to at least their 2007 level of health and energy.

Tim ran out of gas this year playing about 32 minutes a game. Manu also ran out of gas in my opinion, though the broken nose clearly didn't help matters. If we play those guys 25 minutes a night to save them for the playoffs, can we even get into the playoffs? Tony would have to have his absolute best season yet. With a full summer to rest it is possible he will come back fully reloaded for a dominant season but I don't think he by himself can carry us all season long into the playoffs.

As it was, we had to go on an amazing stretch on the back of Manu to secure a seat in the playoffs, and that was with Tim in relatively good health and injury free all season. Can we expect El Contusion and Tim to be injury free for a whole season? I wouldn't say the odds are in our favor.

I understand that trading Tony is a roll of a dice because it leaves us a hole at the PG position and Hill isn't ready to lead the team. Yet with Hill and Parker I think we're overloaded at the PG position.

I've supported the idea of trading Tony because it was the best way to reload on the fly. Honestly, I think no matter what we do we're in a tough situation after having been dominant so long and not been able to find another star player to put into the lineup.

If the FO wants to hold on to Parker, I think there is some logic to trading Hill. Hill's stock went up greatly this year (even if his performance didn't always suggest it.) If the FO can use Hill to move up in the draft to get a real impact player to fill one of our many voids, then I think they should do it without question.

If we can get a star player out of this draft and bring Splitter over, then we really have improved our chances for a title. I can live with Temple learning to be the backup point guard. When Tony was out he showed he can handle playing on the Spurs.

Anyway, that's just my two cents. No matter what the FO does I'm excited for another Spurs season.

[DPG21920]

Trading Richard Jefferson's contract for a "better fit" is virtually impossible to do.

There's less than a handful of guys out there to begin with that are a great fit for the Spurs. Three criteria exists for such a player IMO:
1) Defensive oriented- great one on one perimeter defender
2) Can hit the three with consistency
3) Long enough to be as effective guarding the longer, taller wings in the league such as( Melo, Durant, LeBron, Roy, Kobe, Joe Johnson ect.)

Wings 6'7 and above (exception Lee)on the top of my head that exhibit one criteria (defensive oriented):In order IMO

1. Thabo Sefolosha
2. Luc Mbah a Moute
3. Trevor Ariza
4. Gerald Wallace
5. Shane Battier
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Courtney Lee
8. Nicolas Batum
9. Ronnie Brewer
10. Martell Webster

Now you filter those guys into the category: Can spread the floor by shooting the 3 ball with consistency.

1. Thabo Sefolosha (barely)
3. Trevor Ariza
5. Shane Battier
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Courtney Lee
8. Nicolas Batum
10. Martell Webster

Now lets see how available these 7 guys are:

1. Thabo Sefolosha- Signed a very cheap-valued extension with the Thunder that runs through 2014. Virtually impossible to pry away from Thunder. Only makes roughly 3 million a year. Virtually untouchable.
2. Trevor Ariza- IMO was underpaid by the Rockets with the MLE. Highly doubt Rockets are looking to trade him due to his relatively cheap contract for the amount of production he puts on the court on both ends. Most likely not available
3. Shane Battier - Could be available at the trade deadline if Rockets aren't in contention due to his expiring contract. Won't know his availability til mid-February. Even so it's less likely Morey gives such a valuable piece to a division rival.
4. Stephen Jackson- Leading the Bobcats to the playoffs for the first time makes him virtually untouchable being owned by Jordan's competitive spirit, unless Bobcats are the Nets of the league by the trading deadline. Then Bobcats may consider parting ways with their long-term expensive contracts. (Won't know his availability til mid-February)
5. Courtney Lee - Still on a very cheap rookie scale salary. His productivity output surpasses his salary by a wide margin. Making his availability less likely.
6. Nicolas Batum- See above
7. Martell Webster- Has a contract that pays him 4.8 next year and 5.2 the next with a team option for the 3rd year in 2013. Could be trade-able with the improvement of Batum, if they draft a wing with the 22nd pick. They were interested in Jefferson at the 2009 trading deadline. Jefferson plus 20th pick for Webster+Pryzbilla's expiring(player value insignificant with torn patella tendon)+ maybe Fernandez or Cunningham may get the Blazers to think for at least a second. (Possibly available)

As you can see there's virtually no "better fit's" out there that are realistically possible for the Spurs to attain.

All in all, Spurs fan's underestimated the value Bruce Bowen brought to the Spurs. He was a key component in the efficient well-oiled machine on both ends of the court that lasted from 2003 to 2008. Looking for such a player will be virtually impossible to attain.


IMO With this reasoning Spurs are better off keeping Jefferson. Perhaps a summer with Chip can do wonders for his confidence and revitalize the 40% clip he shot from the distance with the Bucks just a year ago.


In regard of the thread...

IMO These things need to happen for Spurs to have a better chance at competing for a championship:

1. Sign Splitter

2. Find a 5th wing to step up and be consistent on both ends night in and night out. ( Through the draft, free agency or have Hairston or Gee really improve and step up to the plate.) *Preferably a wing with height and length*

3. The improvement of Richard Jefferson. Sick Chip Engelland on him the entire summer and revamp his confidence. A more consistent Jefferson on the offensive end would do wonders for his overall hustle and activity on the defensive end.

4. The improvement of Blair and Hill.

Those 4 things plus Manu and Tony having the summer off to rest and work on their respective games can catapult the Spurs into contention for number 5. IMO

In other words....A fresh coat of paint

:cry Why do you hate me?

Moving RJ to get someone who is a better fit is not quite as hard as you make it out to be. You took better fit to mean "Perfect Bowen Replacement". Those criteria you laid out would certainly be a better fit, but that is not the only way.

There are lots of areas to improve over RJ production wise. Meeting all the criteria would be a perfect scenario, but RJ really meets none. If you can get a player that can produce better from the position, whether that be just defensively, or just offensively or some combo of both, I think it would be better.

But your post was a good one though and made a lot of sense. I don't know who is attainable off of your list, but there are FA routes as well. Moving RJ's contract just does not have to be for the same position imo. If you can get a serviceable starter at the SF spot via FA or internally (which is tough), you can use RJ to try and bring in more talent from a distressed team.

[MaNu4Tres]

Fit? Probably. Better production? Maybe not -- I'd be on the phone with Philly and GS a.s.a.p.

As good as Maggette and Iggy's production looks from their respective teams being the number 1 option (or number 2 in CM's case), it won't be the same on the Spurs. I don't think the Spurs FO would value such additions at such a high cost to an already established team because of what happened to Jefferson this year.

Iggy and Maggette would still be the 3rd or 4th banana and inconsistent 3 point shooters that don't necessarily spread the floor when Parker and Manu are being the ball-dominant number 1 and number 2 options in half-court sets. As good as Maggette or Iggy look on paper, those two players will get 50-60% fewer touches than they were accustomed to on their respective teams. Same thing happened to Jefferson this year.

People want to use Jefferson as the scapegoat but they don't realize the man still increased his overall shooting percentage from the previous season. It has to do with the amount of touches and Maggette and Iggy would only become the next victims. The only thing different between the 3 players (Jefferson, Maggette, Iggy) that has significant value to the Spurs' overall offense is that Jefferson has been a proven 3 point shooter. Something Maggette and Igoudala can't say for themselves. Even though Jefferson had one of his worst seasons from 3, I have more hope he will be able to turn it around than I do for Maggette or Igoudala to have it finally developed.

Taking that into consideration, I doubt the Spurs would hinder their future rebuilding resources(cap-room) by adding another Jefferson (Ball dominant offensive players who need touches to be effective, which lack a consistency from the 3) so to speak for the next year or two during Duncan's 2 year window.




Really, he's probably the closest thing they could find to a "fit." I'm skeptical of just how good of a defender he is -- as I haven't seen him enough in the type of matchups I'd have liked to make my best judgment -- but I've always been intrigued by him and I'm not sure there's a player that possesses a better skillset for the Spurs that's somewhat attainable.

I was skeptical as well on Webster. I really liked how he improved his game in the 2008 season on both ends, then in 2009 he suffered an injury set back and the jury was out to see how he would comeback. From the games I saw him defend and from what I've read, he's become a much better one on one perimeter defender. There were games he held Kobe and Durant to horribly inefficient games. Time will tell if he can build on the year he performed really well on both ends.








What if they feel that way about Bogans? :(

Bogans' ceiling is a lot lower to where summer workouts wouldn't really make a significant difference. The guy could probably practice 12 hours a day for 3 months and nobody would really be able to see any difference in his game. :lol

Jefferson on the other hand is a totally different story as you would know being an established starter in the league.



Pretty much. And I agree with the notion that what we're likely to see is a fresh coat of paint -- add Splitter, their first-rounder, find a adequate "centerpiece" and count on the internal growth from the team in the form of a revitalized Parker, a second year for RJ and the development of Blair, Hill and THG. I think that's pretty much the offseason's goal.

But, in the end, it always comes back to one thing: health.

I agree as always it is health. But that is the only thing that can't be controlled.

Everybody in the organization just needs to worry about what they can control.

[DPG21920]

Also, the main difference with Boston is they have a true "Big 4". The Spurs have an often injured "Big 3" with no true fourth option, at least not the caliber of Ray Allen, KG, Pierce or Rondo.

That is a huge difference.

[DPG21920]

Maggette has an ability that RJ does not have; getting to the line. Iggy has ball handling and play making. Plus he is a good defender.

While I agree their numbers won't be the same, I disagree it will be an RJ like effect. RJ's problem is that he is content to be a no show. Maggette and Iggy won't just stand around. It would allow the Spurs to have a true "Big 4" and the balance would be much like the Celtics where on any given night, the leading scorer could change. That would be a great thing for the Spurs.

Especially with Iggy imo. His ball-handling/playmaking would instantly allow for much more balanced and dangerous line ups. Having TP/Manu/Iggy would be 3 very good ball handlers and playmakers to varying degrees. That alone would be a huge upgrade over RJ imo.

[Blackjack]

Maggette has an ability that RJ does not have; getting to the line. Iggy has ball handling and play making. Plus he is a good defender.

While I agree their numbers won't be the same, I disagree it will be an RJ like effect. RJ's problem is that he is content to be a no show. Maggette and Iggy won't just stand around. It would allow the Spurs to have a true "Big 4" and the balance would be much like the Celtics where on any given night, the leading scorer could change. That would be a great thing for the Spurs.

Especially with Iggy imo. His ball-handling/playmaking would instantly allow for much more balanced and dangerous line ups. Having TP/Manu/Iggy would be 3 very good ball handlers and playmakers to varying degrees. That alone would be a huge upgrade over RJ imo.

You should have seen the post I had. It was AWWWESOOOME . . .

But it got erased when the computer logged me off.

And now I'm left to drink . . .

Heavily. :drunk

[DPG21920]

I also think that RJ has to go for other reasons. I know people say he would be hard to replace if he opts out, but that is from a talent standpoint, not an impact standpoint. I truly think the Spurs could go with a much lesser player at SF and get better impact, as long as that guy does a couple things better than RJ; shoot 3's and defends smartly.

If the Spurs keep RJ, I think you have him and Manu come off the bench. I think you stick with that. RJ starting is pointless and I don't see him making some significant second year leap.

I think he has to be moved for someone else because it will not work. I don't expect the FO to take on some long-term bloated contract, but hopefully they can net something with his expiring.

[DPG21920]

You should have seen the post I had. It was AWWWESOOOME . . .

But it got erased when the computer logged me off.

And now I'm left to drink . . .

Heavily. :drunk

I hate when that happens. I am guessing you like Iggy's game for the Spurs?

[MaNu4Tres]

:cry Why do you hate me?

Moving RJ to get someone who is a better fit is not quite as hard as you make it out to be. You took better fit to mean "Perfect Bowen Replacement". Those criteria you laid out would certainly be a better fit, but that is not the only way.

There are lots of areas to improve over RJ production wise. Meeting all the criteria would be a perfect scenario, but RJ really meets none. If you can get a player that can produce better from the position, whether that be just defensively, or just offensively or some combo of both, I think it would be better.

But your post was a good one though and made a lot of sense. I don't know who is attainable off of your list, but there are FA routes as well. Moving RJ's contract just does not have to be for the same position imo. If you can get a serviceable starter at the SF spot via FA or internally (which is tough), you can use RJ to try and bring in more talent from a distressed team.

:lol I don't hate you at all. I actually nod in agreement with most of your posts.

I was just trying to make it aware its extremely hard to find the perfect fit. And if you do find a fit, it's even harder to attain such a fit.

And I really think Jefferson gets too bad of a rap for this past season. The guy was inconsistent on the offensive end. But so were his touches. He still shot a respectable 47% from the field. And had some good defensive games and some bad ones. Overall I don't think he's the culprit for the 2nd round out.

Do I think he's a perfect fit? Of course not.

Do I think there's better options out there that are starter material and realistically attainable on both ends? Not really.

Like I said before I'd hold on to him. Sick Chip Engelland on him for the entire summer to get his confidence back. It seemed like every game Jefferson got in a rhythm on the offensive end, he's defensive and all around game shined. Hopefully he can find his rhythm next year with the help of the Spurs coaches/players.

I think finding that 5th banana behind the Tony, Hill, Manu and Jefferson is easier to attain than a starting caliber small forward that fits.

I said it last year in the off-season and I'll say it again. Spurs need to find a clear cut consistent 3rd wing behind Manu and Jefferson. (4th behind Hill, Manu, RJ). Whether if it's from the draft, if not then by packaging the 20th pick in a trade, or having Hairston or Gee step up to the plate.
(I really don't think there's anyone out there in free agency that can provide what the Spurs really need. In terms of a consistent 3 point shooting, long-defensive oriented small forward or tall shooting guard. Closest ones IMO are Rasual Butler, Raja Bell, or Dorell Wright but all of them lack one or two of the attributes that the Spurs need at the spot.)

I know Bruno has pointed out only 10 mpg would be available for such a spot if the minutes are like this past year, but I think it would be different if Spurs can find the right piece. This piece can relieve some of Hill minutes at the two, giving Hill more energy to be more efficient in his increased responsibilities on both ends. At the same time he could relieve Manu's minutes at the back-up 3 spot, giving Manu more gas to go for the throat in the last 6 minutes of the 4th quarter on the offensive end. I think more minutes at this spot can be beneficial for the team as a whole if this guy can come in and be consistent on both ends night in and night out.

[TD 21]

Excellent writeup MaNu4Tres.

Webster was a name that sprung to mind months ago, but I didn't like his contract (I remembered it being worse than the numbers you've presented). He's a solid defender and a good shooter. But, he isn't very athletic and not the quickest laterally. He is a high character, humble, hard working, Spurs-type of player/person. I could see the Trail Blazers moving him to free up some space past next season.

Iguodala is a guy I've liked for a long time, but I'm not sure he's at the stage in his career where he could not just accept, but thrive, in a drastically reduced role offensively. He seems relatively humble, but all those types of guys who team's foolishly paid to be franchise players are out to prove that they're legit franchise players at his age. It's usually not until they're in their late twenties, like Jefferson, that they are humbled by not winning and no longer thrilled to just pile up points, so they willingly take on a reduced role to play on a winning team.

Jefferson is still salvageable, but the Spurs need to, as you say, sic Engelland on him. I'm not expecting him to shoot the three at 39% like he did with the Bucks, but he can't shoot 32%, either. He's got to shoot (at least) 35-37%, which he's eminently capable of doing.

10 mpg, says Bruno? Try 15-20 mpg. Primary backup wing is a (relatively) significant spot that the Spurs have to fill and if they don't fill it with the right player, then despite all of the potential positive they may have going into next season, they're still not going to be championship contenders.

[MaNu4Tres]

Maggette has an ability that RJ does not have; getting to the line. Iggy has ball handling and play making. Plus he is a good defender.

I do understand that, but how does that help the Spurs when Tony and Manu have the ball just about every offensive possession they are in the game?

IMO My point is in the grand scheme of things, Maggette's touches would be limited to where his play with the ball wouldn't be as significant or have as much value to the Spurs as his play off the ball would . I.E spot up shooting from 3 or from 20 feet out. Same problem Jefferson had.

Same thing with Iggy. Unless you want to limit Tony and Manu's touches and put the game in the hands of Iggy or Maggette?

Me personally I want Tony and Manu to have the ball 9 times out of 10 in a close game.

And you can point out that Igoudala and Maggette's ability to create would be a plus over Jefferson when Manu and Tony are resting. I agree with that. But is that 15 minutes when Manu or Tony rest worth the money Igoudala and Maggette will recieve the next 3-4 years? I don't think so.IMO


I don't think Maggette's one on one defense is better than Jeffersons.

Igoudala's? Yes I agree there.

[DPG21920]

RJ is a guy who's numbers were ok, but his impact was terrible. Far too often he has 2-4 nights. He does nothing far too often. He does not hurt the Spurs, but he does not help them.

I just don't see him making an impact at all, even if he is confident. We will see though. The Spurs are in a tough spot.

I would like an Iggy or Maggette from a fan standpoint, but I hate their contracts, especially Iggy's.

But I am of the firm opinion that based on a few factors (RJ's game, team's view of him...) that anyone is better than RJ on this team. I think he has to be moved if this team wants to be successful. Maybe that is harsh. I don't think he is a cancer in the true form of the word, but I think he really has no trust from anyone on this team.

[DPG21920]

I do understand that, but how does that help the Spurs when Tony and Manu have the ball just about every offensive possession they are in the game?

IMO My point is in the grand scheme of things, Maggette's touches would be limited to where his play with the ball wouldn't be as significant or have as much value to the Spurs as his play off the ball would . I.E spot up shooting from 3 or from 20 feet out. Same problem Jefferson had.

Same thing with Iggy. Unless you want to limit Tony and Manu's touches and put the game in the hands of Iggy or Maggette?

Me personally I want Tony and Manu to have the ball 9 times out of 10 in a close game.

And you can point out that Igoudala and Maggette's ability to create would be a plus over Jefferson when Manu and Tony are resting. I agree with that. But is that 15 minutes when Manu or Tony rest worth the money Igoudala and Maggette will recieve the next 3-4 years? I don't think so.IMO


I don't think Maggette's one on one defense is better than Jeffersons.

Igoudala's? Yes I agree there.

I agree with that to an extent, but like I said I think RJ stands around and is content. Iggy and Maggette would force the issue a bit more. I agree that TP and Manu would have the ball more, but I also think it would be, throughout a season, more spread out offensively if you have a guy like Iggy.

Their production would take an obvious hit, but not like RJ. RJ literally is a ghost. His production is not just down, it is muted far too often. Iggy and Maggette would be required to do more spot up shooting than normal, but not as much as RJ because when they have more ability, it opens things up a little more. To what extent, I am not sure.

The contract issue is a different issue altogether.

[TD 21]

I just disagree that the Spurs are two rotation players away from being a legit contender. Even if you get Tiago and Bell, which most would agree would be a solid pair, is that really enough? I don't see it as so.

They also need a trade of RJ's contract that can bring back a better fit.

Depends. Theoretically, I think it would be enough to make the Spurs a legit contender. But, for as intriguing as Splitter is, we don't know for certain how he'll do in the NBA, because he's never played an NBA game. And even if he is going to be good, how good will he be in his first season, despite his vast international experienced? Bell, he was slipping two seasons ago and basically didn't play this season. So, would the Spurs be getting the Bell who's, even at his advanced age, a better defender than Bogans and a 40+% three-point shooter, or would they be getting an old, mostly washed up player?

Here's the thing: A lot of the Suns role players could have easily been playing above their heads this season. Even if they do re-sign Stoudemire, can a lot of those guys repeat their performances? I'm skeptical. Plus, they won't be sneaking up on anyone next season. I think they'll still be good, but I don't see them making the conference finals again. They remind me of the '09 Nuggets and '08 Hornets.

James, if he goes to another team, we'll have to see how that goes throughout the season before declaring them contenders. But, if he leaves the Cavs, obviously rule them out.

So that leaves the Lakers, Celtics and Magic, as the three teams that would (to enter the season, at least) be for sure ahead of the Spurs. It's not like they need to leapfrog ten teams to be legit contenders again. I know people will say, what about young teams like the Trail Blazers and Thunder? We've got to see them ascend to that level before proclaiming it just because of their potential. Could another surprise team like the '08 Hornets, '09 Nuggets, or '10 Suns rise to that level? Yes and most likely someone will, but still, the Spurs should be legitimately in the hunt and able to matchup better with the Lakers than they have been since the Gasol trade.

I don't see getting back to being legit contenders next season as being that monumental a task. Beating the top three-five team, of course, will be, but being in their class? I don't think the Spurs are that far off.

[MaNu4Tres]

I agree with that to an extent, but like I said I think RJ stands around and is content. Iggy and Maggette would force the issue a bit more. I agree that TP and Manu would have the ball more, but I also think it would be, throughout a season, more spread out offensively if you have a guy like Iggy.

Their production would take an obvious hit, but not like RJ. RJ literally is a ghost. His production is not just down, it is muted far too often. Iggy and Maggette would be required to do more spot up shooting than normal, but not as much as RJ because when they have more ability, it opens things up a little more. To what extent, I am not sure.

The contract issue is a different issue altogether.

I actually thought R.J made several cuts off the ball for potential dunks and layups just about every game. Only so often was the pass made for the conversion.

IMO It was his inability to shoot the 3 that haunted his overall aggression when the ball was kicked out to him. The defense wouldn't close out as hard (taking away his ability to create off the dribble). This is when he sometimes became passive in a sense, instead of attacking because the defense simply didn't give it to him. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think Jefferson can create off the dribble efficiently in one on one situations. I'm clearly pointing out if he had a reliable 3 point shot, it would give him a very easy opportunity to create off the dribble when the defense closed out on him hard.) I think standing around is a bit of an exaggeration but I get your point. His inability to live up to his offensive production from the Bucks is what really gets Spurs' fans hot and bothered about Jefferson but I just don't think you can expect even 15 ppg from a 4th or 5th option. Offensive opportunity was simply scarce for R.J it's as simple as that. IMO



Because of the R.J trade and the amount of touches that were available for such an acquisition, I highly doubt the Spurs would even consider a trade for Iggy or Maggette mainly because of their absurd contracts. Those acquisitions wouldn't be any where worth the price. If it weren't for the length of their contracts I'm sure the Spurs would contemplate about it. At the same time I'm sure they would discuss how they would fit if there touches are cut by 40-50%. And also figure in their play off the ball and their defensive ability ect.

Overall I do agree Iggy provides better ball-handling and creating than R.J. As well as Maggette.

IMO I just don't think those two attributes are valued or significant or needed (for the price) to an already established machine that consists of two ball-dominant guards already.

[Blackjack]

I hate when that happens. I am guessing you like Iggy's game for the Spurs?

I definitely believe he'd be a better player with the Spurs than RJ; and I'm pretty much with you on him needing to go for the Spurs to win a title.

I agree with 'Tres that RJ isn't the reason they lost last year and that he's shouldered too much of the blame because of an overinflated expectation.

But while he might not be the reason they lost last year, you could just as easily say he'll be the reason they don't win -- while his contract is the reason the Spurs were able to acquire him, it's also preventing them from adding better quality depth and his lack of an overall game (the guy doesn't defend, make plays, rebound consistently or provide energy) doesn't bode well for the team. You want your best players on the floor in the fourth and on this team and in this system, he's not. You shouldn't be having to play a rookie or veteran-minimum type in the guts of the game when your paying RJ $15M, but if your doing what's best for the team ... you have no other choice.

That's why Iguodala works better. Andre can give you some of what Bruce did defensivley; he can run the point alongside Hill and shoulder much more of the playmaking responsibilities over the course of the regular season (which allows the Big 3 to not have to put as much wear on the tires); he's a workhorse and could be a godsend to Manu; he rebounds, disrupts passing lanes, gets to the line, finishes in traffic (there's no OCD or whatever the hell it is with RJ that makes him believe he can only finish on the weakside or with a reverse) and he can ignite the break off the glass on his own.

AI is a Leatherman or Swiss-Army Knife that's in a miscast role as a No.1 and he's overpaid. But I'd definitely welcome him to the Spurs in place of Jefferson. He's just a better overall player, even if not the perfect fit (which he's not, and I'll readily admit that).

I just don't see RJ becoming the spot-up three-point shooter Kidd's been able to become, 'Tres. I hope I'm wrong and I wish he'd put something like this up on his bulletin board to fire him up and prove people like myself wrong, but the guy's soft.

I hate using that word but I believe it to be true. When everyone knows you've got trouble with spacing and that they need you to show confidence and take a corner three ... you take it. It's not about you, it's about the team. You step up, give it your best effort and you live with the result. Not RJ. The guy was turning them down without even looking at the rim so much that he flat-out abandoned it. As a matter of fact, I'd almost be willing to bet that upon Pop and the staff seeing how reluctant he was to shoot the ball and watching him consistently make poor drives or take off-balance jumpers off the bounce from inside the line, that they had him purposely set up two-feet inside the line so he'd just let it fly. That's just not gonna get it done.

So call me skeptical that Chip can do anything with him when it comes to the playoffs. At heart, RJ's a slasher. He's just not a shooter. And while the numbers look good in Milwaukee and the corner three looked like something he might actually excel at with the Spurs, it's just not the same -- he was seeing the ball as a No. 1 option and playing with house money. When the pressure's at its greatest a player reverts to what he knows. And unfortunately for the Spurs, he knows he ain't a shooter, just a guy that's capable of shooting when he's catered to and can find a rhythm; something he won't ever be able to do consistently playing with the Big 3.

I'd take Iguodala's overall game or Maggette's free-throw dominance and ability to play the smallball-4, with Randolph's future, as soon as the deal's put on the table. But that's just me.

[Blackjack]

I need a nap. :sleep

[DPG21920]

That is the thing with RJ. He does the thing I hate the most for an athlete; he is in-between. Not only did he abandon the 3-PT shot, he got stuck in the middle too often. He would not drive consistently or look for his offense enough.

He is a slasher, but not one that can create on his own enough like a Maggette.

Maggette and Iggy, for as much as they have weaknesses, do not get stuck in neutral. They do what they do, and they do that well.

Their contracts suck so bad though, but if you were able to get Randolph with him? No brainer imo.

[MaNu4Tres]

But while he might not be the reason they lost last year, you could just as easily say he'll be the reason they don't win -- while his contract is the reason the Spurs were able to acquire him, it's also preventing them from adding better quality depth and his lack of an overall game (the guy doesn't defend, make plays, rebound consistently or provide energy) doesn't bode well for the team. You want your best players on the floor in the fourth and on this team and in this system, he's not. You shouldn't be having to play a rookie or veteran-minimum type in the guts of the game when your paying RJ $15M, but if your doing what's best for the team ... you have no other choice.

That's why Iguodala works better. Andre can give you some of what Bruce did defensivley; he can run the point alongside Hill and shoulder much more of the playmaking responsibilities over the course of the regular season (which allows the Big 3 to not have to put as much wear on the tires); he's a workhorse and could be a godsend to Manu; he rebounds, disrupts passing lanes, gets to the line, finishes in traffic (there's no OCD or whatever the hell it is with RJ that makes him believe he can only finish on the weakside or with a reverse) and he can ignite the break off the glass on his own.

AI is a Leatherman or Swiss-Army Knife that's in a miscast role as a No.1 and he's overpaid. But I'd definitely welcome him to the Spurs in place of Jefferson. He's just a better overall player, even if not the perfect fit (which he's not, and I'll readily admit that).

I just don't see RJ becoming the spot-up three-point shooter Kidd's been able to become, 'Tres. I hope I'm wrong and I wish he'd put something like this up on his bulletin board to fire him up and prove people like myself wrong, but the guy's soft.

I hate using that word but I believe it to be true. When everyone knows you've got trouble with spacing and that they need you to show confidence and take a corner three ... you take it. It's not about you, it's about the team. You step up, give it your best effort and you live with the result. Not RJ. The guy was turning them down without even looking at the rim so much that he flat-out abandoned it. As a matter of fact, I'd almost be willing to bet that upon Pop and the staff seeing how reluctant he was to shoot the ball and watching him consistently make poor drives or take off-balance jumpers off the bounce from inside the line, that they had him purposely set up two-feet inside the line so he'd just let it fly. That's just not gonna get it done.

So call me skeptical that Chip can do anything with him when it comes to the playoffs. At heart, RJ's a slasher. He's just not a shooter. And while the numbers look good in Milwaukee and the corner three looked like something he might actually excel at with the Spurs, it's just not the same -- he was seeing the ball as a No. 1 option and playing with house money. When the pressure's at its greatest a player reverts to what he knows. And unfortunately for the Spurs, he knows he ain't a shooter, just a guy that's capable of shooting when he's catered to and can find a rhythm; something he won't ever be able to do consistently playing with the Big 3.

I'd take Iguodala's overall game or Maggette's free-throw dominance and ability to play the smallball-4, with Randolph's future, as soon as the deal's put on the table. But that's just me.

Good take.

My whole point is Iggy and Maggette's offensive production would still decline in this system, like R.J. And I don't think Spurs would want to take on those contracts because of what transpired this season, with the amount of touches available for such players. Therefore it's not as realistic to me to attain those players.

If the length of their contracts were cut by 2-3 years, I'm sure the Spurs would consider it. Although, I don't think their offensive game would be as such an improvement as you are implying with all due respect. Simply because of the amount of touches available.

I do agree with you though on Igoudala improving the Spurs overall defense by him being a better overall perimeter defender. Because of that I would definitely consider a R.J for Igoudala deal because R.J more than likely won't shoot 39 % from 3 again anyway.

If money were not the issue Iggy would be closer to a better fit than R.J and I'd do the trade in a heartbeat. But since money is the issue I'd be extremely hesitant. But then again I'm acting like I'm talking about my money here, so excuse the whole what would I do if I'm Holt/Pop perspective.

[Blackjack]

Yeah, if GS would do it it, you'd be foolish to turn it down. I mean, would the Spurs be appreciably worse with Maggette as apposed to RJ?

I don't think so. In fact, I think they'd be as good or better.

If they got Maggette, I think I'd put him back as a sixth-man. He's got no problem doing it and he'd have free reign to make his assault at the rim. Maggette's got a game that translate whether you're playing in San Antonio, Boston or Uranus (Get it? Your anus -- I kill myself sometimes), IMO. You give him the ball at the top of the key, he draws contact, gets to the line and hits 85-percent. It's just what he does. And I'm a huge proponent of the free-throw line and would love to have a weapon like that coming off the bench; you could still keep Manu's minutes down and you'd have him playing less taxing minutes spending more of his time with Tim and Tony. Call me crazy, but the guy I couldn't stand a couple of years ago is now someone I actually wouldn't mind having. He really seemed turn a corner last year and his efficiency was pretty damn impressive.

Iggy's contract is bad. There's no getting around that. Maggette's? Not so much, IMO. His money will look pretty decent for the type of sixth-man he'll be for a team and it wouldn't bother me all that much. But as it pertains to Iguodala, what if the Spurs fall flat next year. What if, for whatever reason, they just fall by the wayside a bit and out of contention. Are the Spurs going to bring Tony back? Would Tony want to come back if the team was going nowhere? With Hill on board, Andre could be the ideal backcourt mate. Maybe that contract doesn't look so bad then . . .

[Blackjack]

Good take.

My whole point is Iggy and Maggette's offensive production would still decline in this system, like R.J. And I don't think Spurs would want to take on those contracts because of what transpired this season, with the amount of touches available for such players. Therefore it's not as realistic to me to attain those players.

If the length of their contracts were cut by 2-3 years, I'm sure the Spurs would consider it. Although, I don't think their offensive game would be as such an improvement as you are implying with all due respect. Simply because of the amount of touches available.

I do agree with you though on Igoudala improving the Spurs overall defense by him being a better overall perimeter defender. Because of that I would definitely consider a R.J for Igoudala deal because R.J more than likely won't shoot 39 % from 3 again anyway.

If money were not the issue Iggy would be closer to a better fit than R.J and I'd do the trade in a heartbeat. But since money is the issue I'd be extremely hesitant. But then again I'm acting like I'm talking about my money here, so excuse the whole what would I do if I'm Holt/Pop perspective.

I get it, bro. It sure is easy playing with everyone else's money. :lol

I just believe those two trades at worst keep the team where it is and at best put them back into contention, and in the case of the GS deal, put them in a better position for the future with Randolph -- Maggette's contract would be well worth it if you get Randolph, IMO.

[MaNu4Tres]

I get it, bro. It sure is easy playing with everyone else's money. :lol

I just believe those two trades at worst keep the team where it is and at best put them back into contention, and in the case of the GS deal, put them in a better position for the future with Randolph -- Maggette's contract would be well worth it if you get Randolph, IMO.

I agree :tu

I actually was one of the advocates for a crazy Maggette/Randolph/Azubukee/Turiaf deal for Jefferson/Bonner/Mason/Finley at the deadline :lol

If Holt gave R.C and Pop the green light. Spurs would have to consider taking on Maggette's contract, if it included Randolph.

[Blackjack]

I agree :tu

I actually was one of the advocates for a crazy Maggette/Randolph/Azubukee/Turiaf deal for Jefferson/Bonner/Mason/Finley at the deadline :lol

If Holt gave R.C and Pop the green light. Spurs would have to consider taking on Maggette's contract, if it included Randolph.

I 'member it like it was yesterday; I was a wee lad ... knee-high to a grasshopper, don't ya know?

Have a look-see for ye self (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4070947). :toast