The Suns are butthurt about being called bad preparation for Boston

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/05/20/20100520phoenix-suns-bounce-back-boivin.html#comments


You know what that means, right? Everyone is assuming a Los Angeles-Boston NBA (http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/05/20/20100520phoenix-suns-bounce-back-boivin.html#) Finals, and the article was all about how the Suns aren't properly preparing the Lakers for the Celtics.
Ouch.
The NBA, meanwhile, sent out a newsletter Thursday with all kinds of statistics that could further sink the team into depression:
• "According to Elias," it shouts, "teams that had taken a 2-0 lead in a best-of-seven series had advanced 217 of 231 times (.940)."
• "When winning Game 1 and 2 of a best-of-seven series . . . teams coached by Phil Jackson are 46-0."
You could almost hear the newsletter giggle.
Even late-night talk shows are jumping in on the bashing.
"Phoenix was so bad," Jay Leno said Tuesday, "that the Arizona Legislature voted to deport them."





Damn, I'm impressed, this team is doing a better and better job day by day making people forget about the team that busted its ass to improve its weak areas and get this far and making sure the fans remember the 2010 Suns as a team that mailed it in once they heard no one expected them to beat LA.

It'll be interesting. Do the Suns take this LA times article personally and make LA have to fight for the next two wins, or do they demonstrate the same lack of pride and disinterest they've shown through two games and just role over completely. I was fully prepared to watch Phoenix get beat by a better team and be content with the season ending that way, but I was assuming they'd show the same heart and grit they've shown so far. Right now they look like players who are content losing to a better team and the coach is the only one who wants to "go down fighting" as he said at halftime.

[Giuseppe]

Gambo & Snatch rode Amare hard today, put him up sopping wet. They beat him unmercifully. It was a ringer though:::they only did it to serve one of two purposes: prompt him to go ape shit the rest of the way, OR, grease the wheels so Sarver is justified in not super maxing him. G & A are bag men for the boy's downtown. Ashamed they should be.

[Giuseppe]

You win your two, bring it back to California and they'll be some tight booty holes. They we got to win.

Talking smack is what sealed your doom in 1 & 2.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Gambo & Snatch rode Amare hard today, put him up sopping wet. They beat him unmercifully. It was a ringer though:::they only did it to serve one of two purposes: prompt him to go ape shit the rest of the way, OR, grease the wheels so Sarver is justified in not super maxing him. G & H are bag men for the boy's downtown. Ashamed they should be.


I agree wholeheartedly, this campaign from the Phoenix media all season to say "HE'S NOT WORTH THE MAX!!!!" after every single bad game from Amare has undoubtedly been a plan to give Sarver and Kerr a reason to let him walk. The local media has done such a good job beating it into people's heads that he's not worth the max they eventually bought into it. The casual Phoenix fan pays no attention to the NBA outside of Phoenix, so when they read Ban Dickley write about how Amare isn't worth the max, they have no idea that the NBA is a league where Rashard Lewis has a max contract.

[Ghazi]

You win your two, bring it back to California and they'll be some tight booty holes. They we got to win.

Talking smack is what sealed your doom in 1 & 2.

lol copying Sheed

[BUMP]

As frustrating as it must be for Suns fans, it all eventually comes down to X's and O's. Ultimately, you can't teach a old dog new tricks.

Amare is not all of a sudden gonna start playing defense.

They are always gonna be shorter than LA

The same mismatches are gonna be there

Getting mad over articles ultimately doesn't take that away. I don't think Phoenix is just "rolling over". I think they played terrible game 1, but the truth is losing by 12 at Staples to the Lakers is not that embarassing.

They're just losing to a better team and thats all there is to it

[Amarelooms]

Both teams played hard...

:elephant

[Giuseppe]

I wish G & A were unencumbered. They'd be so much more credible and enjoyable. You can't believe a word out of their mouths concerning the D'Back or Suns. It's all company line. What's the sense.

[Giuseppe]

lol copying Sheed

Of course. It is a funny line.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

As frustrating as it must be for Suns fans, it all eventually comes down to X's and O's. Ultimately, you can't teach a old dog new tricks.

Amare is not all of a sudden gonna start playing defense.

They are always gonna be shorter than LA

The same mismatches are gonna be there

Getting mad over articles ultimately doesn't take that away. I don't think Phoenix is just "rolling over". I think they played terrible game 1, but the truth is losing by 12 at Staples to the Lakers is not that embarassing.

They're just losing to a better team and thats all there is to it


If they lost to LA by 12 after playing their asses off I'd be fine with it. They played half hearted apathetic basketball last night, and anyone who knows this team would have known that.

[Venti Quattro]

I guess it's OK to lose by 12 to a better team.

But seeing Amare not even trying in the fourth is probably what's making Alvin Gentry and Phoenix fans livid.

[mogrovejo]

They haven't shown a lack of pride and fight. They have shown a lack of talent, a big lack of defensive talent.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I don't buy it for a sec that Phoenix's defense is so bad that even if they are trying their absolute hardest LA shoots 57% from the field. They were capable of giving a better effort last night, they just didn't give a shit. Nash and Amare both never showed any emotion or frustration. Neither one seemed upset at all that their team just went down 2-0.

[Giuseppe]

They put too much stock in beating San Antonio. Like that was the end all/be all of everything. It was simply a means to an end/winning the Finals. Nothing else. Nash should not have cried in front of everybody like that. Sure, you have tears, but, wait till you get to the car, or, home, then let loose. Seeing a grown man cry happy tears is alarming to young teammates.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

They haven't shown a lack of pride and fight.


Are you saying not one single player on the Suns showed a lack of pride and fight yesterday? I don't see how anyone could have watched the game and thought Phoenix tried their best. Outside of a few players, no one has given a shit so far.

[Venti Quattro]

If Amare starts to give a shit then maybe they can limit LA to 110. :lol

[Ghazi]

:jack

[Giuseppe]

Outside of a few players, no one has given a shit so far.

True, but, why Duncan?

& then Gentry gives up essentially after last night, throws up his hands to the Media and asks for advice on what to do.

You can't do that. You're down 2-0 goin' home.

[BUMP]

I don't buy it for a sec that Phoenix's defense is so bad that even if they are trying their absolute hardest LA shoots 57% from the field. They were capable of giving a better effort last night, they just didn't give a shit. Nash and Amare both never showed any emotion or frustration. Neither one seemed upset at all that their team just went down 2-0.


Well for one, Amare has never been known as a defensive stalwart. He has defensive lapses like that all the time.

And also, not showing emotion doesn't necessarily mean not playing with heart.

Its just an issue with personnel. They have nobody that can guard Kobe, and nobody who has been able to slow down Gasol so far. Only thing you can do is double, and the Lakers just picked them apart all night. Just have to tip the cap

[Giuseppe]

Amare has no fundamentals. And he's a small forward. He's not a power forward and never has been.

[BUMP]

Amare has no fundamentals. And he's a small forward. He's not a power forward and never has been.

Sad thing is, with his strength and quickness he could be a sick defensive player who could guard a lot of positions

[Ghazi]

like my man mogrovejo said, the 3 best teams in the league reside in the East.

[Ghazi]

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: mogrovejo

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And yeah Cubby is right, it has yet to dawn on Nash or Amare that beating San Antonio only clinched a birth in the conference finals, it didn't clinch a championship. It actually seems like Nash and Amare are pissed the season is still going and that their hope back in October was the season would be over by now.

[ginobili's bald spot]

If they lost to LA by 12 after playing their asses off I'd be fine with it. They played half hearted apathetic basketball last night, and anyone who knows this team would have known that.

I haven't watched enough Suns to make an observation like that. My only question would be why? If that's the case, why would they pick now to become apathetic and mail it in? They have obviously worked hard and overachieved (imo) to make it farther than anyone thought when the season began. It just doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't be more motivated now than ever. Other than Amare on defense it just doesn't seem like a lack of effort problem to me. I honestly don't think the Suns have anything to be ashamed of. You guys maxed out your potential and advanced until you ran into a team that was just bigger and better.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

True, but, why Duncan?

& then Gentry gives up essentially after last night, throws up his hands to the Media and asks for advice on what to do.

You can't do that. You're down 2-0 goin' home.


Well in that case I actually feel Gentry's frustration, what the fuck is a coach supposed to do when the two best players on the team stop giving a shit?

[Venti Quattro]

I think they stopped caring after they beat the Spurs.

They were charging over everybody as they were building up to the WCF.

Then poof... Well there's still games 3 and 4 but Nash and Amare don't have a lot of time.

[mogrovejo]

:worthy: :worthy: :worthy: mogrovejo

Agreed. :tu


Are you saying not one single player on the Suns showed a lack of pride and fight yesterday? I don't see how anyone could have watched the game and thought Phoenix tried their best. Outside of a few players, no one has given a shit so far.

Yes.

Some guys have a poor work rate defensively + poor awareness + poor defensive intensity, but that's part of their skill-set; they weren't especially apathetic last night.

[Giuseppe]

It actually seems like Nash and Amare are pissed the season is still going and that their hope back in October was the season would be over by now.

DUNCAN
DUNCAN
DUNCAN

When you ain't aggravating the bejeesus out of me, you're a true wonderment.

[ginobili's bald spot]

I think they stopped caring after they beat the Spurs.

They were charging over everybody as they were building up to the WCF.

Then poof... Well there's still games 3 and 4 but Nash and Amare don't have a lot of time.



They beat the Spurs because they are way better than the Spurs. Not because they were trying harder than they are against the Lakers.

[silverblk mystix]

...suns need to dig deep and remember that since january or so---they were the best team in the west...

gentry needs to fire them up and continue to play the SAME rotation (10 deep) that was working so well---but they need to apply a full court press and get the crowd in a frenzy and bother the shit out of the lakers---play as physical as they played against the spurs---

show no respect to the lakers----and it might change the series---no guarantees that they will win---but it beats the shit out of this bullshit awe and respect that they are showing the lakers---

in other words---the only thing that really bothers a bully---is when you punch him in the nose----HARD---

that is why the celtics will embarrass the lakers yet again in the finals---if the suns don't wake up...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I haven't watched enough Suns to make an observation like that. My only question would be why? If that's the case, why would they pick now to become apathetic and mail it in? They have obviously worked hard and overachieved (imo) to make it farther than anyone thought when the season began. It just doesn't make sense to me why they wouldn't be more motivated now than ever. Other than Amare on defense it just doesn't seem like a lack of effort problem to me. I honestly don't think the Suns have anything to be ashamed of. You guys maxed out your potential and advanced until you ran into a team that was just bigger and better.


Losing to LA is nothing to be ashamed of. I agree they are a significantly better team that might even be up 2-0 anyway. The way Phoenix lost game 2 is something to be ashamed of. Game 1 was LA just being a way better team, game 2 was a combo of that and Phoenix being lazy. I know he had a decent statistical night, but it seems obvious to me Nash isn't leaving it all on the court like he does whenever he plays the Spurs. It probably wouldn't be enough, but I'm fairly certain Nash (and Amare but no one is arguing that) could be doing more. Now is not the time when a teams' best player is supposed to go through the motions and nonchalantly have an average game while his team loses.

[peskypesky]

They put too much stock in beating San Antonio. Like that was the end all/be all of everything.

Same goes for San Antonio beating the Mavs. They felt like they'd won the championship because they got revenge for last year (and 2006). Then they had their asses handed to them by a weak Phoenix team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

DUNCAN
DUNCAN
DUNCAN

When you ain't aggravating the bejeesus out of me, you're a true wonderment.


:lol same can be said for you. When you aren't trying to get under my skin I generally agree with you.

[LnGrrrR]

They haven't shown a lack of pride and fight. They have shown a lack of talent, a big lack of defensive talent.

Mogro, do you think all NBA players give 100% effort each night? Your posts seem to think they do, decrying any attempts to paint an NBA player as lacking effort.

I'll agree that the Suns lack the ability to counter LA's big men, but Amar'e has been pretty sad on the defensive end, even for him.

[UV Ray]

Amare has no fundamentals. And he's a small forward. He's not a power forward and never has been.

All true.

[TheMACHINE]

...suns need to dig deep and remember that since january or so---they were the best team in the west...

gentry needs to fire them up and continue to play the SAME rotation (10 deep) that was working so well---but they need to apply a full court press and get the crowd in a frenzy and bother the shit out of the lakers---play as physical as they played against the spurs---

show no respect to the lakers----and it might change the series---no guarantees that they will win---but it beats the shit out of this bullshit awe and respect that they are showing the lakers---

in other words---the only thing that really bothers a bully---is when you punch him in the nose----HARD---

that is why the celtics will embarrass the lakers yet again in the finals---if the suns don't wake up...

:lmao

swept by the suns....pathetic.

[da_suns_fan]

I wish G & A were unencumbered. They'd be so much more credible and enjoyable. You can't believe a word out of their mouths concerning the D'Back or Suns. It's all company line. What's the sense.

That whole station is a joke. The morning guys absolutely suck as well.

But then again, am I gonna get upset if they dont offer Amare a max contract?

His performance last night was so pitiful. Downright embarrassing.

I remember when the Suns beat Portland, Blazer fans were really hard on LaMarcus Aldridge. I thought "He's a good player. Dont be furious he couldnt lead the team to victory over the Suns without Brandon Roy. You shouldnt expect that from him."

But in this case, Amare was just AWFUL. Probably the worst game Ive seen from him since before the all-star break. Maybe the worst since he came back from knee surgery. The worst part is, I GUARANTEE he thinks he didnt do anything wrong. He'll blame it on their defensive strategy or just Gasol's length. I can wish all day that Gentry and Majerle locked him in a room and replayed his fuck ups over and over and over again but I know it didnt happen.

He's just not smart enough to make quick decisions on defense. He's the worst pick n roll player we have.

I say fuck it. If he starts playing like that again, go with Lopez, Frye and Lou. At least we wont give up the ridiculous number of layups and offensive boards.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I feel the same way DSF. I'd prefer they keep Amare, but I won't lose sleep over it if he's gone. There's always something with this guy. I've just gotten tired of seasons ending and the fans not knowing what would have happened if Amare wasn't injured/suspended/lazy.

[da_suns_fan]

I feel the same way DSF. I'd prefer they keep Amare, but I won't lose sleep over it if he's gone. There's always something with this guy. I've just gotten tired of seasons ending and the fans not knowing what would have happened if Amare wasn't injured/suspended/lazy.

My Guess: He'll be a Knick. D'Antoni will make a hard push for him when Lebron, Wade etc. give him the finger.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You think? Maybe I read into it the wrong way, but in 2008 when things were getting sour between the Suns and D'antoni by the day, Amare was the only player not endorsing him and used him as an opportunity to scapegoat as the reason why he sucks at defense. I'd be very surprised if D'antoni wants a player who IMO threw him under the bus (regardless of the fact D'antoni maybe deserved to be thrown under the bus).

[da_suns_fan]

You think? Maybe I read into it the wrong way, but in 2008 when things were getting sour between the Suns and D'antoni by the day, Amare was the only player not endorsing him and used him as an opportunity to scapegoat as the reason why he sucks at defense. I'd be very surprised if D'antoni wants a player who IMO threw him under the bus (regardless of the fact D'antoni maybe deserved to be thrown under the bus).

D'Antoni has a six million dollar salary he has to justify. If they cant get Lebron or Wade, they might become desperate.

Besides, Amare was all about having a "players coach" after that Terry Porter disaster.

Its just a guess.

[UV Ray]

I feel the same way DSF. I'd prefer they keep Amare, but I won't lose sleep over it if he's gone. There's always something with this guy. I've just gotten tired of seasons ending and the fans not knowing what would have happened if Amare wasn't injured/suspended/lazy.

Laziness or lack of intelligence, maybe both.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Mogro, do you think all NBA players give 100% effort each night? Your posts seem to think they do, decrying any attempts to paint an NBA player as lacking effort.

I'll agree that the Suns lack the ability to counter LA's big men, but Amar'e has been pretty sad on the defensive end, even for him.

I'm not Mogro but I think he and are in agreement that what is often interpreted as "lack of effort" or "team X didn't play well" is ascribing blame/credit in the wrong place. Great teams tend to make other teams look bad... missed shots, bad shot selection, a step slow, etc. Some of that can be misinterpreted as "not playing hard" when it really is more just being outplayed by bigger, stronger, faster, better players/team.

Nothing about this series has been shocking so far -- we already knew that Amar'e is a lousy defender. Yeah, the degree to which he has been abused is a bit surprising... but shocking? Gasol is perhaps the finest offensive PF/C on the block in the game today with a vast height advantage surrounded by great offensive players. Amar'e plays with poor technique and mediocre effort as a regular habit. That's just who he is.

Aside from that, I really don't see any loafing going on with the Suns. Do you think Frye is missing shots because he isn't trying hard enough? Looks to me like Nash, Dragic, Dudley, Hill, Barbosa, Lopez, Amundson, etc. are working their tails off out there. It's just that, despite what Hollinger thinks, the Lakers are a better team.

[BUMP]

I'm not Mogro but I think he and are in agreement that what is often interpreted as "lack of effort" or "team X didn't play well" is ascribing blame/credit in the wrong place. Great teams tend to make other teams look bad... missed shots, bad shot selection, a step slow, etc. Some of that can be misinterpreted as "not playing hard" when it really is more just being outplayed by bigger, stronger, faster, better players/team.

Nothing about this series has been shocking so far -- we already knew that Amar'e is a lousy defender. Yeah, the degree to which he has been abused is a bit surprising... but shocking? Gasol is perhaps the finest offensive PF/C on the block in the game today with a vast height advantage surrounded by great offensive players. Amar'e plays with poor technique and mediocre effort as a regular habit. That's just who he is.

Aside from that, I really don't see any loafing going on with the Suns. Do you think Frye is missing shots because he isn't trying hard enough? Looks to me like Nash, Dragic, Dudley, Hill, Barbosa, Lopez, Amundson, etc. are working their tails off out there. It's just that, despite what Hollinger thinks, the Lakers are a better team.

You and I seem to be on the same page. The Lakers are just a better team and they are playing to their potential.

I think a lot of times the excuse of "my team just wasn't playing hard" gets thrown around a lot. Sometimes its pretty obvious when a team is too lazy, when they lose to a team they shouldn't have.

But with the Suns I think they are playing hard enough. The only two I see playing exceptionally bad are Frye and Amare.

Frye is just shooting lousy and isn't letting the game come to him.

Amare is getting torn apart on defense, but when you have a notably poor defensive player guarding one of the best players in the game what do you expect to happen?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'm not making an excuse. LA deserves both wins they have, by no means am I trying to take anything away from them. My only purpose with saying Phoenix hasn't played with heart is because they don't deserve the simple cop out that LA was better after they way they played game 2.

In 2006, when Phoenix lost to Dallas, it was obvious they emptied the tank and gave all they did. Dallas was clearly the better team and nothing Phoenix did would have won them the series. That might very well be the case with LA, but if they're gonna get the "LA is simply better" cop out, they better earn it first. LA shooting 57% from the field and Phoenix turning the ball over 17 times isn't playing hard.

[TheMACHINE]

either that or they simply cant find a way to win.

[milkshakeballa]

I agree wholeheartedly, this campaign from the Phoenix media all season to say "HE'S NOT WORTH THE MAX!!!!" after every single bad game from Amare has undoubtedly been a plan to give Sarver and Kerr a reason to let him walk. The local media has done such a good job beating it into people's heads that he's not worth the max they eventually bought into it. The casual Phoenix fan pays no attention to the NBA outside of Phoenix, so when they read Ban Dickley write about how Amare isn't worth the max, they have no idea that the NBA is a league where Rashard Lewis has a max contract.

Once again...

Just because Rashard Lewis is a max level player doesn't mean Amare is.


So when Barbosa is a free agent...is he worth the FULL MLE Luke Walton money?

Just because Luke...an inferior player...gets it?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Once again...

Just because Rashard Lewis is a max level player doesn't mean Amare is.


So when Barbosa is a free agent...is he worth the FULL MLE Luke Walton money?

Just because Luke...an inferior player...gets it?

No, my point is that Amare getting max money in today's NBA isn't some incredible travesty that redefines what a horrible contract is. Giving Amare the max isn't about whether or not he deserves it, it's about what the best option for Phoenix is.

[milkshakeballa]

No, my point is that Amare getting max money in today's NBA isn't some incredible travesty that redefines what a horrible contract is. Giving Amare the max isn't about whether or not he deserves it, it's about what the best option for Phoenix is.

AH i c.

Hope it works out for you DOK.

Would be fun to develope a nice rivalry going on for the next few years.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah it seems like one team is contending while the other is rebuilding or in a transition period (unfortunately for Phoenix LA is usually the one contending), it'd be nice if for once both teams are legit contenders at the same time.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Btw Luke isn't an inferior player to Barbosa. They both equally suck.

[UV Ray]

Btw Luke isn't an inferior player to Barbosa. They both equally suck.


Lately, you know that when Barbosa enters the game things are going to go downhill. It's so predictable.

[21_Blessings]

Well I won't be losing any sleep over Phoenix giving Amare max $. Neither will the Lakers and their bigs.

At this point, Amare for most teams wouldn't be a very sound investment. Unreliable defense and mind.

[UV Ray]

Well I won't be losing any sleep over Phoenix giving Amare max $. Neither will the Lakers and their bigs.

At this point, Amare for most teams wouldn't be a very sound investment. Unreliable defense and mind.

It would have been better to trade Amare earlier and get something for him than to go through this BS charade. Sure it's been fun watching Phoenix get into the playoffs, but Phoenix needs to learn how to look towards the future.

[ginobili's bald spot]

Losing to LA is nothing to be ashamed of. I agree they are a significantly better team that might even be up 2-0 anyway. The way Phoenix lost game 2 is something to be ashamed of. Game 1 was LA just being a way better team, game 2 was a combo of that and Phoenix being lazy. I know he had a decent statistical night, but it seems obvious to me Nash isn't leaving it all on the court like he does whenever he plays the Spurs. It probably wouldn't be enough, but I'm fairly certain Nash (and Amare but no one is arguing that) could be doing more. Now is not the time when a teams' best player is supposed to go through the motions and nonchalantly have an average game while his team loses.

I think the main flaw with the Suns has always been that your two best players (Amare and Nash) also happen to be HUGE liabilities on the defensive end and also play two of the most important defensive positions imo. Not being able to stop penetration at the point of attack is one thing. The Lakers can't but they can get away with it because of the guys they have in the paint. But when you pair that kind of PG defense with having no defensive anchor and a flat out indifferent defender like Amare in the paint, that's just not going to cut it in the playoffs. The bottom line is that those guys are never going to become good defenders. It puts the Suns in a really tough situation because the same guys that make them who they are and make them so good offensively are also the reason they fail in the playoffs. So while I agree with you that Nash is part of the problem, I don't think it's a difference of effort problem. They are what they are. Very good offensive players and very poor defenders. I think in order for you guys to take that next step you need to make some major changes. I think you can get away with keeping Amare but you HAVE to pair him with some kind of defensive beast in the paint to compensate for his shortcomings. Channing Frye ain't gonna cut it.

[ezau]

Suns fans need to realize that when their team beat the Spurs, it's season over for them. Nash and Amar'e just wanted to avenge the pain that the Spurs have given them all these years and they couldn't care less of anything else.

[UV Ray]

Suns fans need to realize that when their team beat the Spurs, it's season over for them. Nash and Amar'e just wanted to avenge the pain that the Spurs have given them all these years and they couldn't care less of anything else.
I think your statement is true for the most part. That is the problem with your statement.

[da_suns_fan]

Suns fans need to realize that when their team beat the Spurs, it's season over for them. Nash and Amar'e just wanted to avenge the pain that the Spurs have given them all these years and they couldn't care less of anything else.

Who are the Spurs?

[mogrovejo]

Mogro, do you think all NBA players give 100% effort each night? Your posts seem to think they do, decrying any attempts to paint an NBA player as lacking effort.

I'll agree that the Suns lack the ability to counter LA's big men, but Amar'e has been pretty sad on the defensive end, even for him.

No, not all NBA players give 100% effort every night. That'd be humanly impossible, there are too many games throughout a season. Guys have to slow down their effort a notch or two in some particular instances to manage their stamina, both in-game and in the long run.

Some NBA players are lazy. They take possessions off (especially defensive ones), games off, even entire seasons. They could do better, but they aren't willing to put up the mental and physical effort for egoistical reasons.

That's not very common at all though.

Playing hard and focused all the time is a skill. It's mostly innate but can be coached. It's a skill like eye-hand coordination. Not every player has it to the same degree. Not everyone of us has the same mental discipline. It's not only a matter of will - just like players don't miss shots because they lack the will to make them. Some guys have a job in the league just because of having this talent - Ryan Bowen is a very fine example of it.


When Amare conceded that hilarious layup to Odom, just allowing him to drive by his left from the top of the key, he wasn't lacking pride or effort. He was caught completely flat-footed, with his knees stretched and his mind wandering somewhere else for a fraction of a second. But that's Amare being Amare, not Amare being particularly lazy. That's Amare leading with the particular lack of a particular talent that has been holding him back for years.

Phoenix isn't putting less effort than they generally do.


I'm not Mogro but I think he and are in agreement that what is often interpreted as "lack of effort" or "team X didn't play well" is ascribing blame/credit in the wrong place. Great teams tend to make other teams look bad... missed shots, bad shot selection, a step slow, etc. Some of that can be misinterpreted as "not playing hard" when it really is more just being outplayed by bigger, stronger, faster, better players/team.

Nothing about this series has been shocking so far -- we already knew that Amar'e is a lousy defender. Yeah, the degree to which he has been abused is a bit surprising... but shocking? Gasol is perhaps the finest offensive PF/C on the block in the game today with a vast height advantage surrounded by great offensive players. Amar'e plays with poor technique and mediocre effort as a regular habit. That's just who he is.

Aside from that, I really don't see any loafing going on with the Suns. Do you think Frye is missing shots because he isn't trying hard enough? Looks to me like Nash, Dragic, Dudley, Hill, Barbosa, Lopez, Amundson, etc. are working their tails off out there. It's just that, despite what Hollinger thinks, the Lakers are a better team.

Agreed.

Same happened with LeBron/Cavs the previous round. It happens all the time. It's akin to blaming coaches I think, just more comfortable to fans to question "effort", as in their mind it's something that can be fixed easier.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Suns fans need to realize that when their team beat the Spurs, it's season over for them. Nash and Amar'e just wanted to avenge the pain that the Spurs have given them all these years and they couldn't care less of anything else.

Whether or not you're right, it doesn't change the fact you're so stupid your wife decided to kill herself.

lol Omar
lol widow

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think the main flaw with the Suns has always been that your two best players (Amare and Nash) also happen to be HUGE liabilities on the defensive end and also play two of the most important defensive positions imo. Not being able to stop penetration at the point of attack is one thing. The Lakers can't but they can get away with it because of the guys they have in the paint. But when you pair that kind of PG defense with having no defensive anchor and a flat out indifferent defender like Amare in the paint, that's just not going to cut it in the playoffs. The bottom line is that those guys are never going to become good defenders. It puts the Suns in a really tough situation because the same guys that make them who they are and make them so good offensively are also the reason they fail in the playoffs. So while I agree with you that Nash is part of the problem, I don't think it's a difference of effort problem. They are what they are. Very good offensive players and very poor defenders. I think in order for you guys to take that next step you need to make some major changes. I think you can get away with keeping Amare but you HAVE to pair him with some kind of defensive beast in the paint to compensate for his shortcomings. Channing Frye ain't gonna cut it.


Having your best players be defensive liabilities in general is a huge problem, I agree. It trickles down to the entire team, a defensive minded team needs players from top to bottom who want to play defense and the best players need to lead by example. That's why regardless of age, it was beyond stupid to not trade Amare for KG when they could have. KG would have brought the culture change they needed.

[Agloco]

You win your two, bring it back to California and they'll be some tight booty holes. They we got to win.

Talking smack is what sealed your doom in 1 & 2.

The expert speaks.......

Honestly though, I think that this series is more about the Lakers offense than anything else. Phoenix is averaging what they did against the Spurs (which wasn't exactly paltry.....109.5), and yet they're still getting blown out. That's a bit of a problem.

It's a mirror image of what the Spurs did against the Mavs, and then against the Suns.

[Giuseppe]

The expert speaks.......

I like a tight booty hole, so sue me.

[vicphoenix13]

I think the main flaw with the Suns has always been that your two best players (Amare and Nash) also happen to be HUGE liabilities on the defensive end and also play two of the most important defensive positions imo. Not being able to stop penetration at the point of attack is one thing. The Lakers can't but they can get away with it because of the guys they have in the paint. But when you pair that kind of PG defense with having no defensive anchor and a flat out indifferent defender like Amare in the paint, that's just not going to cut it in the playoffs. The bottom line is that those guys are never going to become good defenders. It puts the Suns in a really tough situation because the same guys that make them who they are and make them so good offensively are also the reason they fail in the playoffs. So while I agree with you that Nash is part of the problem, I don't think it's a difference of effort problem. They are what they are. Very good offensive players and very poor defenders. I think in order for you guys to take that next step you need to make some major changes. I think you can get away with keeping Amare but you HAVE to pair him with some kind of defensive beast in the paint to compensate for his shortcomings. Channing Frye ain't gonna cut it.


You can talk about Nash being a poor defender all you want, but don't tell me that his defense is a problem in this series. Derek Fisher hasn't done anything offensively compared to what he put up against Deron Williams. So the Suns have given up 128 and 124 in two games without Nash's defense being an issue. Looks to me like this team doesn't have the bigs deal to properly defend the paint. In fact, Nash has never played with an elite defensive center. That is one of the main reasons why he will never win a championship.

[Giuseppe]

^You never wanted "an elite defensive center." You've always been small ball, SSOL, or, some damn funk & junk type strategy. Colangelo even made Daddy extinct with the rule changes after Daddy beat Mutombo half to death in the Philly Finals.

Your regrets are your own, Vic.

[djohn2oo8]

I'm glad that the deal including Amare for Battier and Scola fell through

[Edward]

I'm glad that the deal including Amare for Battier and Scola fell through


:lmao

[vicphoenix13]

^You never wanted "an elite defensive center." You've always been small ball, SSOL, or, some damn funk & junk type strategy. Colangelo even made Daddy extinct with the rule changes after Daddy beat Mutombo half to death in the Philly Finals.

Your regrets are your own, Vic.

So, the Suns wouldn't have listened if someone like Gasol was on the market two years ago. The garbage that the Lakers gave up for him makes alot of people suspicious. The bottomline is that the good centers are never available unless a terrible organization like the Grizzlies wants to be charitable.

[Giuseppe]

No, you wouldn't a listened, you were too busy high fivein' each other & giggling like fools because you snagged Daddy at over $20 million.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So, the Suns wouldn't have listened if someone like Gasol was on the market two years ago. The garbage that the Lakers gave up for him makes alot of people suspicious. The bottomline is that the good centers are never available unless a terrible organization like the Grizzlies wants to be charitable.

The Lakers traded an expiring contract and two first round picks for Gasol
A few months prior, Phoenix traded an expiring contract (Kurt Thomas) and two first round picks for nothing.

That's got nothing to do with Nash, but the Suns are a team that has no business complaining about the Gasol trade. We should be faulting the FO for making a reactionary Shaq trade rather than looking to get better the way LA did.

[vicphoenix13]

No, you wouldn't a listened, you were too busy high fivein' each other & giggling like fools because you snagged Daddy at over $20 million.

I and alot of Suns fans never liked the Shaq trade. The only thing I liked is that they shipped out Marion because he wanted a max deal. I praise the lord that Marion never got that deal. As for Gasol, that trade was a shock to every other team around the NBA. Its like Jerry West brokered the damn trade in secret and convinced that fool Heisley to piss away his franchise player. You can't tell me another team couldn't have offered a better return for Gasol if he was on the market. By the way, I am still suspicious of the 1996 Draft Day trade when Charlotte gave away Kobe for a declining Vlade Divac. No one trades a can't miss superstar for a has been center. It makes the "Knicks fixed the Patrick Ewing lottery" rumor seem minor.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You can talk about Nash being a poor defender all you want, but don't tell me that his defense is a problem in this series. Derek Fisher hasn't done anything offensively compared to what he put up against Deron Williams. So the Suns have given up 128 and 124 in two games without Nash's defense being an issue. Looks to me like this team doesn't have the bigs deal to properly defend the paint. In fact, Nash has never played with an elite defensive center. That is one of the main reasons why he will never win a championship.


I actually agree with you, Nash's D so far in the playoffs has been great, way better than I ever expect. The problem is, the Suns don't have a personality like KG's where he's gonna anchor the team defensively while holding himself and everyone accountable. KG might be a prick but no one can deny the culture change, mentality and unity he brought to Boston. I'm not saying Nash needs to be that guy or that he's to blame, it's the FO's fault for not having anyone capable of anchoring the D, but there clearly isn't enough leadership on the defensive side of the ball.

[vicphoenix13]

The Lakers traded an expiring contract and two first round picks for Gasol
A few months prior, Phoenix traded an expiring contract (Kurt Thomas) and two first round picks for nothing.

That's got nothing to do with Nash, but the Suns are a team that has no business complaining about the Gasol trade. We should be faulting the FO for making a reactionary Shaq trade rather than looking to get better the way LA did.


Follow the money. Sarver was too obsessed with staying under the luxury tax. That Thomas and first round picks giveaway is nothing compared to trading Rondo to Boston. As far as the Gasol trade goes, go tell every other team not to complain. Normally a team wanting to unload a star makes it known on the open market. But I think Jerry West got that moron Heisley's trust and stole Gasol for Jerry Buss.

[vicphoenix13]

I actually agree with you, Nash's D so far in the playoffs has been great, way better than I ever expect. The problem is, the Suns don't have a personality like KG's where he's gonna anchor the team defensively while holding himself and everyone accountable. KG might be a prick but no one can deny the culture change, mentality and unity he brought to Boston. I'm not saying Nash needs to be that guy or that he's to blame, it's the FO's fault for not having anyone capable of anchoring the D, but there clearly isn't enough leadership on the defensive side of the ball.

Boston is a perfect example of a team with great balance. Ray Allen isn't a good defender, but he is backed up with an excellent frontline of Garnett, Perkins and Davis. Ultimately, the defense on championship teams is most valuable on the frontline. So I can say with absolute certainty that Nash would have won a championship if he played on a team like the Lakers or Celtics.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Follow the money. Sarver was too obsessed with staying under the luxury tax. That Thomas and first round picks giveaway is nothing compared to trading Rondo to Boston. As far as the Gasol trade goes, go tell every other team not to complain. Normally a team wanting to unload a star makes it known on the open market. But I think Jerry West got that moron Heisley's trust and stole Gasol for Jerry Buss.

Gasol was involved in tons of rumors around the 2007 deadline and for some reason fell off the radar as a possible trade candidate during the 2007 off season, but it's not like Gasol was considered untouchable. Memphis fans were also beginning to hate the guy, in fact there was a petition from season ticket holders saying that they wouldn't renew if he wasn't trade. Call him a franchise player all you want he couldn't even win a single playoff game on that team, they were going nowhere with a team built around him. Now Memphis is an up and coming young team largely because of getting Marc Gasol and using the cap space from the Gasol trade to get Zach Randolph.

As far as the Suns, they didn't trade Rondo to Boston. They agreed to trade the 21st overall pick to Boston and Boston told them to take Rondo with it. At the time of the draft, virtually everyone had Marcus Williams as the top ranked PG in its class, who was still on the board. Boston was one of the few teams who would have taken Rondo over Marcus Williams, when the Nets took Marcus Williams a pick later it was considered the steal of the draft. I still think that trade was moronic because rookie contracts are the best bargains in the NBA, but its unfair to say they traded Rondo.

[Giuseppe]

West was long gone from Memphis when that trade was made.

Everybody made fun of Gasol when that trade was made and in the ensuing Finals when Gasol was bent over (Spurs fashion) & porked by the Celtzers. Only when we drew Orlando in the '09 Finals and had our plate set did the Gasol trade get dissected.

& if Gasol ain't learned his lessons and toted up his cyphers Vs. the Celtzers this time you'll be in here LYAO at us for Pau....+ Al will be dragging Pau's brother before the mast once again. I don't know if I can face any of that.

[Agloco]

West was long gone from Memphis when that trade was made.

Everybody made fun of Gasol when that trade was made and in the ensuing Finals when Gasol was bent over (Spurs fashion) & porked by the Celtzers. Only when we drew Orlando in the '09 Finals and had our plate set did the Gasol trade get dissected.

& if Gasol ain't learned his lessons and toted up his cyphers Vs. the Celtzers this time you'll be in here LYAO at us for Pau....+ Al will be dragging Pau's brother before the mast once again. I don't know if I can face any of that.

Before the raping the Orlando has taken, I'd have been skeptical of Bostons chances against you. Now, I'm not so sure that it won't at least be a good series.

If Sheed and Garnet show up, there could be trouble in LA.

[Giuseppe]

Especially Wallace. He's been a Lakers killer for years.

Would I like to shoplift the pootie via a 16th against Orlando again? Are the Suns O & 41?

We need to face our fears (Boston) and conquer them. Then me and Luva, Al, the Dr. (Lakers Emeritus), Gem, MACHINE, Milky, Acme, 21, the bald spot, et al can join hands and walk down the path of righteousness justified.

At least that's the way the Old Cubster sees it.

[Agloco]

Boston in 6. Sorry Cubby, vindication will have to wait a year.

[cobbler]

As for Gasol, that trade was a shock to every other team around the NBA. Its like Jerry West brokered the damn trade in secret and convinced that fool Heisley to piss away his franchise player. You can't tell me another team couldn't have offered a better return for Gasol if he was on the market. By the way, I am still suspicious of the 1996 Draft Day trade when Charlotte gave away Kobe for a declining Vlade Divac. No one trades a can't miss superstar for a has been center. It makes the "Knicks fixed the Patrick Ewing lottery" rumor seem minor.

You should really get your facts straight.

Nothing was brokered in secret. West was long out of the Memphis FO by the time of the trade. Heisley, as DOK noted above had been on record for months as making Pau available due to season ticket holder pressures and the need to go another direction. 0 for 12 in the playoffs would do that no?
The Bulls made an attempt at him 2 months prior. The entire NBA knew Pau was available and when the Lakers struck, panic followed. Your guys pulled the biggest 20 Mil knee jerk of them all. The Grizz had a plan and in hindsight. can you say it failed? If you can you are a fool. They insisted Marc Gasol be included (Many of us with foresight saw the talent), they got trading pieces, cap space that ended up in Zach, and are one of the young up and coming teams in the league. The trade worked beautifully for both teams. That you are butthurt about it doesn't make it shady or illegal in any way.

As for your Kobe rant. If he was such a cant miss superstar... why didn't the 12 teams before Charlotte pick him?

[cobbler]

Especially Wallace. He's been a Lakers killer for years.

Would I like to shoplift the pootie via a 16th against Orlando again? Are the Suns O & 41?

We need to face our fears (Boston) and conquer them. Then me and Luva, Al, the Dr. (Lakers Emeritus), Gem, MACHINE, Milky, Acme, 21, the bald spot, et al can join hands and walk down the path of righteousness justified.

At least that's the way the Old Cubster sees it.

I'm truly hurt... :(

[TheMACHINE]

Especially Wallace. He's been a Lakers killer for years.

Would I like to shoplift the pootie via a 16th against Orlando again? Are the Suns O & 41?

We need to face our fears (Boston) and conquer them. Then me and Luva, Al, the Dr. (Lakers Emeritus), Gem, MACHINE, Milky, Acme, 21, the bald spot, et al can join hands and walk down the path of righteousness justified.

At least that's the way the Old Cubster sees it.

sons, ill treat all you guys to Hooters if we beat Boston. :toast

[ezau]

Whether or not you're right, it doesn't change the fact you're so stupid your wife decided to kill herself.

lol Omar
lol widow

Nice comeback. However, that doesn't change the fact that the Suns slobber each time they see the Lakers' on the court. I thought the Suns are going to play the way they did against the Spurs. Sadly, Nash and Amare forgot that beating the Spurs isn't the championship.

LMAO 0 and 41:lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'd rather cheer for a team that is ringless than be such a bad husband my wife decided to kill herself.

[Giuseppe]

I'm truly hurt... :(

Sorry Cobb, consider yourself "et al".

[ChrisHansen]

I like a tight booty hole, so sue me.

Please, take a seat...

[Giuseppe]

I got it figured out:::those fuckers always leave the house thinking they're gonna be ok. I just won't leave. I'll go in to the living room and start watching TV like I own the f'in place. Here/There, no difference. And when they look in my brown paper bag, I'll have one of those little boxes of cereal and a pint of 2%. I'll break that open, slip down into the basement and commissed to eating it.

Be no problem. My booty hole just relax then.

[ChrisHansen]

I got it figured out:::those fuckers always leave the house thinking they're gonna be ok. I just won't leave. I'll go in to the living room and start watching TV like I own the f'in place. Here/There, no difference. And when they look in my brown paper bag, I'll have one of those little boxes of cereal and a pint of 2%. I'll break that open, slip down into the basement and commissed to eating it.

Be no problem. My booty hole just relax then.

Oh so you've seen our show? You know how this works?

Then why did you do it?

[TheManFromAcme]

I got it figured out:::those fuckers always leave the house thinking they're gonna be ok. I just won't leave. I'll go in to the living room and start watching TV like I own the f'in place. Here/There, no difference. And when they look in my brown paper bag, I'll have one of those little boxes of cereal and a pint of 2%. I'll break that open, slip down into the basement and commissed to eating it.

Be no problem. My booty hole just relax then.


:lol

[TheManFromAcme]

sons, ill treat all you guys to Hooters if we beat Boston. :toast

Willing to fly down to S.A. Machine? Got a couple of hooters down here you know. :toast

[TheMACHINE]

Willing to fly down to S.A. Machine? Got a couple of hooters down here you know. :toast

pay for my ticket and i'll treat you out to hooters. haha

[midnightpulp]

Whether or not you're right, it doesn't change the fact you're so stupid your wife decided to kill herself.

lol Omar
lol widow

What's the origin of the "sup Omar" response?

I must know!

[Venti Quattro]

I wish Amare magically learns how to defend in Games 3 and 4.