minor and major(college)

[spursballer21]

so today in class the topic of college comes up and we go on about majors and minors
and ask my teacher that i want to take a minor in art and a major in biology since im getting into the dental field
and she said no take a business minor so when u have to deal with money in ure business and u know what ure doing and u dont to learn anything
but i wana learn and grow more into an artist too
what do u guys think about this and on what i should do

[ALVAREZ6]

so today in class the topic of college comes up and we go on about majors and minors
and ask my teacher that i want to take a minor in art and a major in biology since im getting into the dental field
and she said no take a business minor so when u have to deal with money in ure business and u know what ure doing and u dont to learn anything
but i wana learn and grow more into an artist too
what do u guys think about this and on what i should do
Probably stay an extra year in high school...or perhaps revisit middle school.

[spursballer21]

dam that was mean
why say that

[ashbeeigh]

That's one person. Fuck her. Do what you want.

[spursballer21]

That's one person. Fuck her. Do what you want.
yeah thats what i though
i mean
its just
what i want
and what i like
not what shes gona do
and then another girl i asked and she and the teacher
ure minor has to complement your major blah blah

[exstatic]

When your practice partner embezzles every dime, flees to South America and leave you holding the bag that art minor's going to come in real handy doing prison tattoos. Don't forget that you'll have to give all the money to the one that calls you their prison bitch.

[spursballer21]

haha yeah right lmao

[Das Texan]

learning the english language might do you some good also.

[spursballer21]

i know how to write
this is a forum chill

[Das Texan]

i know how to write
this is a forum chill


you could fool me.

[Destro]

Most teachers don't know a damn thing about general college majors or how life works outside of school. They simply know their major and general education certification. If you want to be a dentist or any other type of job where you need medical you need to drop the art minor and focus on getting all As and high MCATs. Major in chemistry or biology. I've had several student interns that went to medical school after college, those kids didn't mess around with minors. They were completely focused on getting into medical school. That is a reality you will face when you see your competition for medical school. You have your whole life for art but only a few (3 & 1/2) key years to get into medical school.

[Shastafarian]

Most teachers don't know a damn thing about general college majors or how life works outside of school. They simply know their major and general education certification. If you want to be a dentist or any other type of job where you need medical you need to drop the art minor and focus on getting all As and high MCATs. Major in chemistry or biology. I've had several student interns that went to medical school after college, those kids didn't mess around with minors. They were completely focused on getting into medical school. That is a reality you will face when you see your competition for medical school. You have your whole life for art but only a few (3 & 1/2) key years to get into medical school.

People who want to go to Dental School take the DAT, not the MCAT. Don't major in Business. It'll make it that much tougher to get in all your Science requirements. Take some Business classes if you're that worried about it. Your teacher is wrong. I didn't apply to Dental Schools but I'd imagine they'll require these courses

Biology (2-3 Intro Courses and 1-4 Upper Levels)
General Chemistry (2 Semesters)
Organic Chemistry (1-2 Semesters)
Physics (1-2 Semesters)
Math (Calculus and/or Stats)
English

That's just basic stuff too. Again I'm not positive on Dental School requirements but they'll be similar to that.

[DesignatedT]

whatevers easiest for you.

[easjer]

College shouldn't just be about what you want for a career. It should also be about taking the opportunity to study things that are of interest to you. You'll rarely have another opportunity like that again.

Additionally, med schools tend to like diversity. Most pre-meds come in with Bio and chemistry or math, because they are easier. Stretching yourself to experience something else, particularly in the liberal arts makes you stand out as a more well-rounded candidate.

And as for business - you can pick up some classes and get what you need. It's pretty rare that doctors or dentists do their own books or run their offices. That is what office coordinators and accountants are for.

[DJ Mbenga]

not something in liberal arts

[ploto]

Meet your requirements for dental school and then major and minor in whatever you want. It is usually easier to pick a science field because of all the hours you already have in those fields, but it is by no means a requirement. I would even think that some sort of artistic slant would be helpful if you plan to do any sort of cosmetic dentistry.

I do not know about dental schools, but medical schools and residencies include practice management courses in their curriculum. You can also take a couple of general business courses as electives without an actual minor.

I have a science major and a humanities minor, and I liked the diversity of study. It has also worked well when potential employers see it, and I would hope it would do the same for applying to dental school.

[RandomGuy]

so today in class the topic of college comes up and we go on about majors and minors
and ask my teacher that i want to take a minor in art and a major in biology since im getting into the dental field
and she said no take a business minor so when u have to deal with money in ure business and u know what ure doing and u dont to learn anything
but i wana learn and grow more into an artist too
what do u guys think about this and on what i should do

First off, and uncomfortable reality:

"u" should probably make an effort to type correctly with proper punctuation and spelling.

That may sound mean, but bad writing habits will hurt you both in college and when you are looking for a job. Such short cuts like passing on the shift key for capitalization and "u" for "you" work for texting on a cell phone, but really really make you look like an immature slob.

This is simply reality, and I am not trying to be mean. It is the digital equivalent of trying to make a first impression in baggy pants, gold chains, and a hat on sideways.

For good or bad, people form impressions like this, and you must be aware of this.

That said, you should strongly consider taking business as a minor. Better would be math, especially if you are going for biology. My wife is going for her biology degree and that requires a LOT of math. Algebra, calculus, statistics, etc.

Art is something you can generally learn on your own. If art is important to you, then it will be in the future, and you have an entire lifetime to grow and develop. Getting a good job will alloow you the time and luxury to do that.

You can always take a few art classes after you land a good job a few years down the road.

The only person I have ever met that has made use of an education in art was a gal who owned her own tattoo shop. She is a brilliant artist, but doesn't have the business education to really make her shop run well, and that limits her income.

[Stringer_Bell]

With the amount of work you'll be doing in labs and projects, you won't have time for Art or Business minors. Be smart, just focus on getting good grades and finding internships/chances to see what the field is like.

If you have any free time, then you can hang out with the art kids and let them teach you stuff. But sitting in class for it as part of your declared curriculum when you're going to be so busy is not shooting yourself in the foot. Use your elective courses to study Art/Business, and do everything you can to see which classes overlap on general education requirements and take those so you'll have more time to study Art/Business.

Not trying to sound like a dick, I understand you don't know how stuff works yet and that's why you ask for advice.

PS: Since you plan on going onto furter school after undergraduate, don't worry about what school you are accepted to or studying at for undergraduate. The most important thing is learning your trade at the best school AFTER undergraduate, which you can get into by having the best grades, test scores, field related work experience...you can do that anywhere, just gotta stay driven.

[Drachen]

College shouldn't just be about what you want for a career. It should also be about taking the opportunity to study things that are of interest to you. You'll rarely have another opportunity like that again.

Additionally, med schools tend to like diversity. Most pre-meds come in with Bio and chemistry or math, because they are easier. Stretching yourself to experience something else, particularly in the liberal arts makes you stand out as a more well-rounded candidate.

And as for business - you can pick up some classes and get what you need. It's pretty rare that doctors or dentists do their own books or run their offices. That is what office coordinators and accountants are for.

School is always going to be there, especially if you make enough money off of your first go round with school. I don't see the rush with "ending" one's school career at such an early age. Get the skills out of the way that will make you money so you don't have to worry about that. After this, you can go to college any time you damn well please to study art. This way you won't even have to demote your "passion" to minor status you can get an entire bachelor's in Art.

I am about to start my MBA next week. It is in something that I really enjoy that can also make me money. I do, however, plan on retiring and becoming a history professor. My plan is to finish this degree, give myself about a 5 year break from school, then start working on a history degree because I REALLY enjoy that. I can take my time with it and really savor the experience because I already have a career. The opposite of such a plan looks like this: An old friend of mine was/is incredibly intelligent, and had a 3.85 GPA in a dual degree program for history and philosophy. She is an escrow officer. YAY! Point being, use your degree to give yourself a leg up right at first. College is wasted on the young and more people should take a life long view of it.

Also, one more piece of advice for OP. Your actions, not your words define you. If you decided to convey your messages as a jackass, you are a jackass. This is true no matter how many times you say "I know how to type (or speak, etc.)."

[Mr. Peabody]

so today in class the topic of college comes up and we go on about majors and minors
and ask my teacher that i want to take a minor in art and a major in biology since im getting into the dental field
and she said no take a business minor so when u have to deal with money in ure business and u know what ure doing and u dont to learn anything
but i wana learn and grow more into an artist too
what do u guys think about this and on what i should do

I don't know that these "business" classes will be as big of a help as your teacher thinks. I have my own business now and don't remember anything from the economics, accounting, and finance classes I took in undergrad. After three years of post-graduate work and three years of working to save money for my own business, those undergraduate classes were distant memories by the time I hung my own shingle.

My advice, talk to people in the field of dentistry and see what courses they recommend, not only to prepare for post-graduate work, but also to prepare you for any entrance examinations you may have to take for your field of study.

[easjer]

School is always going to be there, especially if you make enough money off of your first go round with school. I don't see the rush with "ending" one's school career at such an early age. Get the skills out of the way that will make you money so you don't have to worry about that. After this, you can go to college any time you damn well please to study art. This way you won't even have to demote your "passion" to minor status you can get an entire bachelor's in Art.

I am about to start my MBA next week. It is in something that I really enjoy that can also make me money. I do, however, plan on retiring and becoming a history professor. My plan is to finish this degree, give myself about a 5 year break from school, then start working on a history degree because I REALLY enjoy that. I can take my time with it and really savor the experience because I already have a career. The opposite of such a plan looks like this: An old friend of mine was/is incredibly intelligent, and had a 3.85 GPA in a dual degree program for history and philosophy. She is an escrow officer. YAY! Point being, use your degree to give yourself a leg up right at first. College is wasted on the young and more people should take a life long view of it.

Also, one more piece of advice for OP. Your actions, not your words define you. If you decided to convey your messages as a jackass, you are a jackass. This is true no matter how many times you say "I know how to type (or speak, etc.)."

I don't completely disagree with you, and I definitely agree that college is wasted on the young. That comes from working at a university where the average age is 27, because of returning students. Returning students typically take their studies more seriously and find them more enriching.

And while education doesn't necessarily have to end, it often does. Work takes over a big chunk of life, finances get stretched, a lot of people have kids or outside the home commitments that preclude returning to school in such a way that it can be as fulfilling as when you are young and more free of responsibilities.

And while it's been nearly 3 years since I worked with students, I did that for over 5 years. Students who find a way to take the classes that are interesting to them in addition to their career oriented classes tend to perform better and get more out of their college experience.

As for usefulness, well . . . I'll just sign off as - easjer, BA in History, currently working in business administration and planning to take Accounting I in the fall. . . but God, I enjoyed that degree.

I may yet go back. To advance much further here, I'll need a masters degree. They would prefer it in Business, but I'd rather slit my wrists. One in history would be acceptable. But time and money . . . It's not in the immediate future for me.

[Blake]

so today in class the topic of college comes up and we go on about majors and minors
and ask my teacher that i want to take a minor in art and a major in biology since im getting into the dental field
and she said no take a business minor so when u have to deal with money in ure business and u know what ure doing and u dont to learn anything
but i wana learn and grow more into an artist too
what do u guys think about this and on what i should do

eh this has a troll smell to it, but I can see what a teacher would be getting at in that being a doctor is basically being a business owner.

It would be nice if doctors would focus a little more on customer service. Many of them feel like they are doing the patient the favor by giving them a quick 5 minute lookover, a prescription scribbled in old Egyptian style and then taking their $15-20 co-pay.

....and then the staff out front is usually worse...

[101A]

My wife's a Biochemistry Professor.

I am going to make this assumption about you:

You want to go to dental school either because your father/mother is a doctor or a dentist AND you already KNOW you do not have the grades/aptitude to get into medical school. Dentists, after all, are people who couldn't get into medical school (generalizing, but pretty accurate).

SO - since you have yet to take Chem 101/102, much less Organic/Biochem and Anatomy & Physiology etc.... at the college level, AND you aren't a bang up science student (by that I mean A's in AP classes) in the first place - trust me, you aren't going to get out of College with a Biology or Chemistry degree.

Save yourself the wasted semester or two, and just enroll now knowing you're getting an Art Education degree.

[JMarkJohns]

Take a pho 181 course. They are fun, and aren't too academic. If you like it/have talent, minor in it, because you'll get the foundation necessary to make a part-time to full-time career out of it. Even in down times, people still pay big bucks for photography for weddings, engagements, graduations, family portraits, pregnancies... It's an expensive minor, for sure, but every thing you purchase, you can continue to use years later if it's taken care of. This is a rare quality for any collegiate focus.

[rjv]

I don't completely disagree with you, and I definitely agree that college is wasted on the young. That comes from working at a university where the average age is 27, because of returning students. Returning students typically take their studies more seriously and find them more enriching.

And while education doesn't necessarily have to end, it often does. Work takes over a big chunk of life, finances get stretched, a lot of people have kids or outside the home commitments that preclude returning to school in such a way that it can be as fulfilling as when you are young and more free of responsibilities.

And while it's been nearly 3 years since I worked with students, I did that for over 5 years. Students who find a way to take the classes that are interesting to them in addition to their career oriented classes tend to perform better and get more out of their college experience.

As for usefulness, well . . . I'll just sign off as - easjer, BA in History, currently working in business administration and planning to take Accounting I in the fall. . . but God, I enjoyed that degree.

I may yet go back. To advance much further here, I'll need a masters degree. They would prefer it in Business, but I'd rather slit my wrists. One in history would be acceptable. But time and money . . . It's not in the immediate future for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM

[Drachen]

I don't completely disagree with you, and I definitely agree that college is wasted on the young. That comes from working at a university where the average age is 27, because of returning students. Returning students typically take their studies more seriously and find them more enriching.

And while education doesn't necessarily have to end, it often does. Work takes over a big chunk of life, finances get stretched, a lot of people have kids or outside the home commitments that preclude returning to school in such a way that it can be as fulfilling as when you are young and more free of responsibilities.

And while it's been nearly 3 years since I worked with students, I did that for over 5 years. Students who find a way to take the classes that are interesting to them in addition to their career oriented classes tend to perform better and get more out of their college experience.

As for usefulness, well . . . I'll just sign off as - easjer, BA in History, currently working in business administration and planning to take Accounting I in the fall. . . but God, I enjoyed that degree.

I may yet go back. To advance much further here, I'll need a masters degree. They would prefer it in Business, but I'd rather slit my wrists. One in history would be acceptable. But time and money . . . It's not in the immediate future for me.


It can be done. I have a house, a wife, a step daughter (12), a daughter (2), and a full-time job (also at a university). Just finished by BSB/A in November. As far as money goes, financial aid and tuition reimbursement. You have to figure out if that job you are in line for if you get your masters, how much extra will it pay you over the repayment period of your FA loans. I mean, if you are getting an extra $900 a month and have to pay $200 a month in loan payments, you did well. I understand plans don't always work out and maybe you don't get that position but that is where you have to factor in your appetite for risk, and figure out how much you will be able to afford in loan payments in a few years. You (may) also have tuition reimbursement, especially if you get your (Slit your wrists) MBA since it is directly related to your job function. This should give you enough of a step up that you can pay for your own lib arts degree (since almost no business will pay for it).

[Rogue]

lol Why didn't she suggest you choose literature? that should be the most useful for you IMHO.

[Rogue]

It can be done. I have a house, a wife, a step daughter (12), a daughter (2), and a full-time job (also at a university). Just finished by BSB/A in November. As far as money goes, financial aid and tuition reimbursement. You have to figure out if that job you are in line for if you get your masters, how much extra will it pay you over the repayment period of your FA loans. I mean, if you are getting an extra $900 a month and have to pay $200 a month in loan payments, you did well. I understand plans don't always work out and maybe you don't get that position but that is where you have to factor in your appetite for risk, and figure out how much you will be able to afford in loan payments in a few years. You (may) also have tuition reimbursement, especially if you get your (Slit your wrists) MBA since it is directly related to your job function. This should give you enough of a step up that you can pay for your own lib arts degree (since almost no business will pay for it).

sounds like you're about the same age as your step daughter, or are you really this retarded? No wonder you hate america so hard and support terrorism so much, you shameless expatriate.

[Drachen]

sounds like you're about the same age as your step daughter, or are you really this retarded? No wonder you hate america so hard and support terrorism so much, you shameless expatriate.

Rogue is funny.

[mrsmaalox]

My wife's a Biochemistry Professor.

I am going to make this assumption about you:

You want to go to dental school either because your father/mother is a doctor or a dentist AND you already KNOW you do not have the grades/aptitude to get into medical school. Dentists, after all, are people who couldn't get into medical school (generalizing, but pretty accurate).

SO - since you have yet to take Chem 101/102, much less Organic/Biochem and Anatomy & Physiology etc.... at the college level, AND you aren't a bang up science student (by that I mean A's in AP classes) in the first place - trust me, you aren't going to get out of College with a Biology or Chemistry degree.

Save yourself the wasted semester or two, and just enroll now knowing you're getting an Art Education degree.

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

[Drachen]

That's a pretty ridiculous thing to say.

I am going to hate myself for quoting such a bad show but . . .

"He is an anti-dentite."

[easjer]

It can be done. I have a house, a wife, a step daughter (12), a daughter (2), and a full-time job (also at a university). Just finished by BSB/A in November. As far as money goes, financial aid and tuition reimbursement. You have to figure out if that job you are in line for if you get your masters, how much extra will it pay you over the repayment period of your FA loans. I mean, if you are getting an extra $900 a month and have to pay $200 a month in loan payments, you did well. I understand plans don't always work out and maybe you don't get that position but that is where you have to factor in your appetite for risk, and figure out how much you will be able to afford in loan payments in a few years. You (may) also have tuition reimbursement, especially if you get your (Slit your wrists) MBA since it is directly related to your job function. This should give you enough of a step up that you can pay for your own lib arts degree (since almost no business will pay for it).

I'm in no way saying it can't be done.

I'm saying it's not as often done. Currently my husband is going back to school, and I'll be taking the accounting classes by fall (thank God for community college with online courses). We don't need both of us back in school full time.

There is no position I'm currently up for or in line for - that's more of an observation about the climate of where I work and looking down the road at where this career path can lead; for the top jobs, they are preferring people with grad degrees.

I have absolutely zero interest in business. It would be sheer torture to try and get an MBA for me. Not to mention all the pre-reqs I'd require. Nah, if I decide to get a masters I'll stick to what interests me. At most I might opt for the MPA. But given how unmotivated I am to even study something that interests me right now, I don't see it happening for something uninteresting.

And no - no tuition reimbursement here. Or tuition breaks. Just 3 hours of work release time and a staff scholarship if I take classes here. And what's funny is that an MBA sounds like it would be related to my job function - but wouldn't really be. The only person in my office who has a business degree is the college/division administrator. . . the rest of us are all liberal arts majors. :lol

[Shastafarian]

My wife's a Biochemistry Professor.

I am going to make this assumption about you:

You want to go to dental school either because your father/mother is a doctor or a dentist AND you already KNOW you do not have the grades/aptitude to get into medical school. Dentists, after all, are people who couldn't get into medical school (generalizing, but pretty accurate).
That's not accurate at all.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

bOtMizMQ6oM

[101A]

That's not accurate at all.


My wife's experience as pre-med advisor over the past decade suggest it is, admittedly a sampling of only two universities; but students START pre-med, and either switch to pre-dental during studies; or apply for dental school when med schools won't have them; students who START pre-dental (of which there are very few), typically switch majors. Again, I am not arguing, this is personal experience (and kind of a standing joke in her department).

[Viva Las Espuelas]

.......Dentists, after all, are people who couldn't get into medical school (generalizing, but pretty accurate)......

http://psychonappy.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/stu-is-missing-a-tooth.jpg

had to
:lol

[mrsmaalox]

That's not accurate at all.

There are twice as many accredited medical schools (not including osteopathic programs) than dental schools in this country. Just statistically speaking, any student has a better chance to get into med school. I think the majority of pre med students who change majors do so to go into other fields, not necessarily because of the difficulty and not necessarily to dentistry, though some probably do.

[101A]

There are twice as many accredited medical schools (not including osteopathic programs) than dental schools in this country. Just statistically speaking, any student has a better chance to get into med school. I think the majority of pre med students who change majors do so to go into other fields, not necessarily because of the difficulty and not necessarily to dentistry, though some probably do.


I indicated (or intended to indicate through experience) many if not most dentists come from the ranks of the "Pre-Med" college base; not that all of the pre-med college base that can't cut it become dentists; there aren't after all, THAT many dentists; which is why I suggested to the OP that he/she go ahead and change majors NOW.

[mrsmaalox]

I indicated (or intended to indicate through experience) many if not most dentists come from the ranks of the "Pre-Med" college base; not that all of the pre-med college base that can't cut it become dentists; there aren't after all, THAT many dentists; which is why I suggested to the OP that he/she go ahead and change majors NOW.

Oh I'm sure that is very accurate, as do most of the nurses and pharmacists and physical therapists. But although you didn't imply that most of those that couldn't "cut it" in medical school became dentists, you did imply that most who became dentists couldn't cut it in medical school. And that is not correct.

[Shastafarian]

My wife's experience as pre-med advisor over the past decade suggest it is, admittedly a sampling of only two universities; but students START pre-med, and either switch to pre-dental during studies; or apply for dental school when med schools won't have them; students who START pre-dental (of which there are very few), typically switch majors. Again, I am not arguing, this is personal experience (and kind of a standing joke in her department).

From my experience Dental School is harder to get into than Medical School. I had friends that were deciding whether to go to Dental School and they were wavering because it was so difficult to get into compared to Med School.

[CuckingFunt]

As someone who is about to start an Art History MA program and who is genuinely passionate about the arts in general, as well as being equally passionate about having a diverse educational background and using college to explore things that truly interest you, it almost pains me to advise against an art minor... but...

I would say you should think very carefully about pursuing an art minor when your ultimate goal is to be a dentist. Not because the two things can't go together or because it would be an impossible academic program, but it will take you a while. Though perhaps not as demanding in terms of tests and memorization, studio classes are INCREDIBLY time consuming. Doing my studio minor, I spent far more of my own time in labs, studios, and dark rooms working on projects than my friends who are chem/bio/etc. majors. When the classes don't fulfill any other requirements, the time they demand is felt even more. In order to give all your classes enough of your attention/time, I would anticipate a studio minor delaying your graduation by possibly two years. Hell, even as an art history major, a program that shares many of the requirements of a studio minor, I graduated this month one class shy of that minor because I didn't want to be working on it any longer. As I got further along in my studies and my upper division major classes got more and more demanding, the time spent working on various studio projects just got to be too much and I let it go. Last fall, before I'd decided to abandon the minor and I was pushing myself to take three studio classes, I was pretty regularly forced to skip other lectures and classes just so that I'd be able to get into the jewelry or painting studio during open hours and finish a project in time for a critique.

Ultimately, fuck career aspirations and do what makes you happiest, but be very aware that the sciences and art majors/minors are probably the most demanding in terms of time spent out of class just because of coordinating lab and studio time. Do it if you think it will be rewarding in some way, personally if not financially, but realize you're looking at a five or probably six year degree if you do.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

so today in class the topic of college comes up and we go on about majors and minors
and ask my teacher that i want to take a minor in art and a major in biology since im getting into the dental field
and she said no take a business minor so when u have to deal with money in ure business and u know what ure doing and u dont to learn anything
but i wana learn and grow more into an artist too
what do u guys think about this and on what i should do


You're teacher is right, majors and minors in shit like art won't get you anywhere in life. The several doctors/vets/dentists I know who run their own practice tell me that not minoring in business was a huge mistake that made it so they had to hire people to help them run their practice.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No DUMMY!!! Don't do what you want, do what makes sense.


This. Think with your brain, not your heart. If everyone did what made them happy, half of us would be pro athletes. I've accepted the fact that once I'm out of college I'll be in a solitary office crunching numbers for the next 30-40 years, but that's just how work is, and it'll be a well paying job that'll give me a great life outside of work.

Yeah, going to work and painting all day would be great, but not being able to pay the electricity bill would suck a lot more than having to crunch numbers.

[CuckingFunt]

This. Think with your brain, not your heart. If everyone did what made them happy, half of us would be pro athletes. I've accepted the fact that once I'm out of college I'll be in a solitary office crunching numbers for the next 30-40 years, but that's just how work is, and it'll be a well paying job that'll give me a great life outside of work.

Yeah, going to work and painting all day would be great, but not being able to pay the electricity bill would suck a lot more than having to crunch numbers.

That's just depressing.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That's just depressing.


What's depressing about it?

[mrsmaalox]

The complexity of running a private practice would be too much for someone without a business background. I can't see where someone could stay sane doing both jobs full time, concurrently. The practitioners I know don't care to be spread so thin in both areas. I do know personally one dentist and one family medicine doctor who put their spouses thru the business degree and now are extremely successful and happy.

[ploto]

I think the majority of pre med students who change majors do so to go into other fields, not necessarily because of the difficulty...

Actually, many do when the classes get hard and they finally realize that their grades are not going to get them into medical school. Just like, many people start as accounting majors but switch to finance or general business when the accounting courses get hard.

[ashbeeigh]

I would say you should think very carefully about pursuing an art minor when your ultimate goal is to be a dentist. Not because the two things can't go together or because it would be an impossible academic program, but it will take you a while. Though perhaps not as demanding in terms of tests and memorization, studio classes are INCREDIBLY time consuming. Doing my studio minor, I spent far more of my own time in labs, studios, and dark rooms working on projects than my friends who are chem/bio/etc. majors. .

I agree with this whole heartedly. The ONE art class I took in college (it was printmaking) was incredibly fun and I enjoyed it.It was a release and all that jazz. I would love to go to King William and take some printmaking classes becauseI had so much fun in it... but dear GOD, I spent more time in the studio for that one semester than I did for the semester of BIO 143 (Systems) and BIO 148 (A&P 1) combined.

If the OP ends up going to a Liberal arts school you'll probably have to take 3-6 hours of art...so take those classes and enjoy the hell out of it. College is about exploring, so explore option. If you feel drawn to Biology now start with Biology, but maybe by your senior year you'll be a Communications major or finance major. Who knows. College is a weird time.

[mavs>spurs2]

Actually, many do when the classes get hard and they finally realize that their grades are not going to get them into medical school. Just like, many people start as accounting majors but switch to finance or general business when the accounting courses get hard.

or maybe you realize that accounting sucks and switch to information systems :)

[CuckingFunt]

What's depressing about it?

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an attitude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an attitude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the antithesis of my attitude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.

[Cry Havoc]

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an attitude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an attitude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the antithesis of my attitude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.

Welcome to the post-2007 job market, CF. It sucks. :depressed

[mavs>spurs2]

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an attitude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an attitude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the antithesis of my attitude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.

don't be an idiot, college is and never was about learning because it's your passion or something. college is a means to make a living for yourself, you go ahead and have your little art major that's cute and all, but in the end no one is going to pay your bills for you when you can't afford to feed yourself or maybe don't even have a job. i prefer to be successful and stand on my own 2 feet rather than struggle to pay the rent and worry about my job security with all the art majors.

[CuckingFunt]

don't be an idiot, college is and never was about learning because it's your passion or something. college is a means to make a living for yourself, you go ahead and have your little art major that's cute and all, but in the end no one is going to pay your bills for you when you can't afford to feed yourself or maybe don't even have a job. i prefer to be successful and stand on my own 2 feet rather than struggle to pay the rent and worry about my job security with all the art majors.

Sorry that I'd prefer a college environment in which people aren't putting forth the bare minimum effort and focusing more on degrees than education. Sorry that I'd prefer a work force that had a genuine interest in what they were doing with their lives and who were invested in doing what they enjoyed to the best of their ability, rather than a work force full of disgruntled mindless drones who do everything half-assed while they fuck off on facebook all day. And extra special sorry if these preferences make me unreasonably optimistic, but I'm just not ready to concede that we've become a species of robots.

I worked in an office environment for ten years. I hated it, but I did it. It made me miserable, but it paid my bills. And if paying my bills ever becomes a problem in my future, I know that I can do it again. Fuck if I'm going to, at age 18, invest a lot of time and energy into school with the specific intention of enduring that misery for half my life, though.

[mavs>spurs2]

Sorry that I'd prefer a college environment in which people aren't putting forth the bare minimum effort and focusing more on degrees than education. Sorry that I'd prefer a work force that had a genuine interest in what they were doing with their lives and who were invested in doing what they enjoyed to the best of their ability, rather than a work force full of disgruntled mindless drones who do everything half-assed while they fuck off on facebook all day. And extra special sorry if these preferences make me unreasonably optimistic, but I'm just not ready to concede that we've become a species of robots.

I worked in an office environment for ten years. I hated it, but I did it. It made me miserable, but it paid my bills. And if paying my bills ever becomes a problem in my future, I know that I can do it again. Fuck if I'm going to, at age 18, invest a lot of time and energy into school with the specific intention of enduring that misery for half my life, though.


that's why you find the proper balance, pick something that makes money but at the same time that you at least somewhat enjoy. degrees like journalism, communications, liberal arts, etc suck because you pay a fortune for a degree with no return on investment. you waste time and money and when you get out, have no way of getting a better job than the one you had or could have gotten from the start. see, i started off going to accounting similiar to dok because it made a lot of money. after taking a few accounting courses, i wisely switched over to information systems because i didn't want the headache it would have caused me to get my CPA and also the life that would have came with it. But in switching, I made sure to pick something that not only do i enjoy (computers) but i thought about it realistically and picked a field that is in high demand and pays good so that i will be set after all of my hard work when i finally graduate here in a couple of years. part of what you're saying is true, but if you don't at least factor the job market and salary into the equation then you're simply being short sighted and lazy, only wanting to do something fun and not put forth a serious effort.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an attitude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an attitude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the antithesis of my attitude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.


I agree to a point, but that's just reality now. I enjoy accounting somewhat, it's a job that's needed in a good or bad economy, it pays well out of college, and it's not overly stressful. Lets just say I was raised in a very fortunate up bringing and my parents gave me plenty of options, I'd feel bad if my kids didn't have the same options I did.

Now, I could go into how education de-emphasizing of stuff like art and science enrages me but that's a different topic.

[CuckingFunt]

that's why you find the proper balance, pick something that makes money but at the same time that you at least somewhat enjoy. degrees like journalism, communications, liberal arts, etc suck because you pay a fortune for a degree with no return on investment. you waste time and money and when you get out, have no way of getting a better job than the one you had or could have gotten from the start. see, i started off going to accounting similiar to dok because it made a lot of money. after taking a few accounting courses, i wisely switched over to information systems because i didn't want the headache it would have caused me to get my CPA and also the life that would have came with it. But in switching, I made sure to pick something that not only do i enjoy (computers) but i thought about it realistically and picked a field that is in high demand and pays good so that i will be set after all of my hard work when i finally graduate here in a couple of years. part of what you're saying is true, but if you don't at least factor the job market and salary into the equation then you're simply being short sighted and lazy, only wanting to do something fun and not put forth a serious effort.

With the exception of the short sighted and lazy comment, I don't entirely disagree with this or the philosophy behind it. Making a living should always be taken into consideration, whether that means choosing a major that both addresses your interests and provides job opportunities or it means recognizing that your interests aren't going to lead to job security and 401Ks. Which is okay, for the record, so long as you're realistic and prepare for that fact.

Surely you can see, however, that your above comments are vastly different from something along the lines of "think with your brain, not your heart" or "college is a means to make a living for yourself." When I say that education should be about finding and pursuing what motivates you, that's not the same as saying that everyone should be a flighty art student because it's super groovy. If someone is genuinely passionate about being an accountant, like my cousin's husband seems to be, then I say go forth and be awesome with it. Or if you've settled on an information systems degree because you love computers and find it a fulfilling area of interest, more power to you. Despite your initial comment about college not being about pursuing your passion, it seems as though that's what you've done in college, right? Your earlier major didn't interest you, so you moved on to something that does. That's great.

I see a lot of people at school who don't do that, though. They get to college with a major already in place and when they discover they don't like it, they stick with it anyway. Because it will make them money eventually. Or because it would take too much time to pursue something they'd like better. Or because they don't want to have wasted time by taking a bunch of high school AP classes designed to prepare them for a major they ended up hating. Whatever. That's where I think this mindset is unfortunate. Every semester I meet kids in their 20s who are already jaded, who are already fed up with their future career choice, but who are already so invested in their long term plan that their only reaction is to completely disengage and become more jaded and half-assed.

[Shastafarian]

He can minor in whatever he wants to be honest. I majored in Anthropology, took all the requisite Science courses, and could've minored in German if I wanted. I chose to take other electives though. But don't Major in Business. The disciplines are too far off from each other.

[mavs>spurs2]

I see a lot of people at school who don't do that, though. They get to college with a major already in place and when they discover they don't like it, they stick with it anyway. Because it will make them money eventually. Or because it would take too much time to pursue something they'd like better. Or because they don't want to have wasted time by taking a bunch of high school AP classes designed to prepare them for a major they ended up hating. Whatever. That's where I think this mindset is unfortunate. Every semester I meet kids in their 20s who are already jaded, who are already fed up with their future career choice, but who are already so invested in their long term plan that their only reaction is to completely disengage and become more jaded and half-assed.

Yeah, that line of thinking sucks because you're actually going to be MISERABLE doing that for the rest of your life if you already hate it while you're still in college. My line of thinking is more along the lines of, yes work is going to suck sometimes and isn't your ideal way to spend the day, and money matters, but try to pick something that you at least mildly enjoy and stands out as not quite as boring/tedious as the other things. of course while still earning at least a decent salary. i really feel bad for my friend who majored in journalism, and don't really know how to tell him he's making a mistake and it's a "loser" degree. I guess people will just have to find out the hard way.

[easjer]

I think that the idea that college is about earning potential is a bad shift (and it *is* a shift in perspective). I think it comes from the degradation of educational standards in high schools, I think.

There is nothing wrong with earning potential being a factor in choosing a major, but you are incorrect in saying that liberal arts degrees are worthless - as I said earlier, every person in my office, save the college/division administrator, have liberal arts degrees. From our own college, no less. And we're all doing pretty well.

There is something valuable to be gained by a degree - that is why ANY bachelor's degree qualifies you for a higher level of job, because everyone takes additional core classes and learns, in theory, valuable skills that are applicable to many things.

As an example - I'm extremely good at research and quickly dissecting articles because I did a lot of that as a history major. Additionally, I'm quite good at puzzling out lines of behavior and logic, because that is also a piece of history - understanding motivations and tracing the results of various actions. It make me good at creating processes and writing directions because I can picture the various potential outcomes of certain choices.

Also, I have a good grasp of language and grammar and can write a thesis. Which is still a pretty valuable skill and one which many of the 'practical' majors I've dealt with are lacking.

Perhaps it's because I worked for 5 years in Honors education, but honestly, I'm with CuckingFunt in finding it completely and thoroughly depressing that college is now seen as a race to complete a degree as quickly as possible with no understanding of the potential for exploration, learning and growth that college can be. Though frankly, I fear that the meaning behind bachelor's degrees is being lost and diluted with the number of people going to college these days and the variety of ways in which to achieve a degree.

[ploto]

I continue to be an idealist. I went to college for an education not for vocational training. I studied 2 pure subject fields- not applied fields- and have never regretted it. My liberal arts core curriculum actually hleped me get my first professional job. I then obtained a Master's degree, and yes, it is helpful to have an advanced degree if you are going to go that route. Maybe it is because I also work at an educational and research institution, but the other people in my department have degrees in fields like English and psychology. I don't make a lot but I make enough and like my job. My child is the same way. He is getting ready for college soon, and he wants to study a pure field and go onto graduate school. He does have friends, though, who have said -- I really want to be a ___ but instead I am going to be an accountant for 20 years, make and save money, and then do what I want.

[The Reckoning]

Maybe it is because I also work at an educational and research institution, but the other people in my department have degrees in fields like English and psychology.

:wakeup

that's why when you go liberal arts people always ask you "oh, are you planning to teach?"

[Mavs_man_41]

:wakeup

that's why when you go liberal arts people always ask you "oh, are you planning to teach?"

:lmao

[ploto]

that's why when you go liberal arts people always ask you "oh, are you planning to teach?"

I don't teach.

My university required a liberal arts core curriculum so I have a BA, but it is in mathematics. I took all the theoretical courses, not the applied ones. I also sat for the first actuary exam to challenge myself and scored a 10 on it, but I did not want to work in the insurance field. I make far less than I would have being an actuary but I enjoy what I do and I like that I contribute to other people's learning.

[RandomGuy]

Just statistically speaking, any student has a better chance to get into med school.

Actually, statistically speaking, that depends on the proportion of applicants to each school, and not the raw number of schools.

10,000 applicants for 1000 spots in two schools. Odds of getting in 1 in 10.
100,000 applicants for 2000 spots in four schools. Odds of getting in 1 in 50.

QED.

[RandomGuy]

I don't teach.

My university required a liberal arts core curriculum so I have a BA, but it is in mathematics. I took all the theoretical courses, not the applied ones. I also sat for the first actuary exam to challenge myself and scored a 10 on it, but I did not want to work in the insurance field. I make far less than I would have being an actuary but I enjoy what I do and I like that I contribute to other people's learning.

Actuaries have, according to a recent job satisfaction survey, the highest satisfaction rate with their jobs in the US.

They also have some pretty solid job security, mostly because their field is so specialized and hard to get into.

[RandomGuy]

I continue to be an idealist. I went to college for an education not for vocational training. I studied 2 pure subject fields- not applied fields- and have never regretted it. My liberal arts core curriculum actually hleped me get my first professional job. I then obtained a Master's degree, and yes, it is helpful to have an advanced degree if you are going to go that route. Maybe it is because I also work at an educational and research institution, but the other people in my department have degrees in fields like English and psychology. I don't make a lot but I make enough and like my job. My child is the same way. He is getting ready for college soon, and he wants to study a pure field and go onto graduate school. He does have friends, though, who have said -- I really want to be a ___ but instead I am going to be an accountant for 20 years, make and save money, and then do what I want.

That is a fair summary of the value of a BA these days. You go to grad school to get a good job, but take a BA in something that interests you.

BTW, I love being an accountant. A lot of people think they can be an accountant for 20 years "just to earn money" but if you don't really like your job that much, most tend to opt out after 5-10 years. As with anything, you have to relatively like what you do in order to hang with it.