Does Kobe really have more help than Lebron?

[Pelicans78]

Everyone assumes Lebron has less talent around him than Kobe, but is it really? Other than Gasol, how good are the other Lakers?

Bynum has talent and size, but the guy is always injured.

Odom is tall and athletic with some skills, but obviously he's nothing more than a role player.

Artest is past his prime and not very good offensively. He's still solid defensively.

The rest are even worse, borderline garbage players who probably couldn't start on a decent team.

I always thought Lebron was the better player since Kobe had more help, but is that really the case? Shouldn't Lebron have done more the last two seasons against Hedo and Pierce?

[Giuseppe]

Lordy, wait till we're extinct before embalming us. Or, at least till we lose a home game.

[Pelicans78]

Lordy, wait till we're extinct before embalming us. Or, at least till we lose a home game.

That's not point. Lakers can still win it, but maybe it just shows how great Kobe really is.

[DAF86]

Kobe has a superstar to play with, Lebron doesn't. That alone is a huge difference.

[anonoftheinternets]

this should prob go in the kobe thread that was stickied for the very same purpose ...

[ChrisRichards]

Ive stated before that Lebron had a deeper team but Kobe's Top 4 guys are easily better than Lebron. It depends on how you define the word "help".


Bottomline for me is this. Kobe has a better coach in the sideline and when things dont go well for Kobe, the Lakers are still very likely to win a game because the Lakers have Gasol and Odom at their disposal to create mismatches while Kobe plays facilitating duties and contributes with his stop and pop jumpers.


You really cant say the same for Lebron when he's having an off night since Mike Brown and Mo Williams are his saving grace.

[Mel_13]

Everyone assumes Lebron has less talent around him than Kobe, but is it really? Other than Gasol,

You can't just make believe Gasol doesn't exist and go on with your case. They do have Gasol. That's as far as you need to go in comparing supporting casts.

[Giuseppe]

But, you all called Gasol everything but a white man a year ago, lyao at us for trading for him. Now he's the greatest thing since sliced bread & a superstar.

Make up your f'ing minds.

[Ghazi]

Yes.

Yet the Cavs are better than the Lakers. :smokin

[da_suns_fan]

I cant even believe this thread exists.

Does Kobe have more help than ANYONE? The Lakers have, by far, the best front court in the entire league. He's got Ron Artest on the wing. Veteran Derek Fisher at the point (who saved his ass in the finals last year).

[Ghazi]

Rondo has more help

[Giuseppe]

I cant even believe this thread exists.

Does Kobe have more help than ANYONE? The Lakers have, by far, the best front court in the entire league. He's got Ron Artest on the wing. Veteran Derek Fisher at the point (who saved his ass in the finals last year).

da, shruggin' off stay humble/stay hungry.

tee, hee.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kobe might have more help but he's better. Lebron's supporting cast didn't make him quit and go 4-13.

[JamStone]

Gasol is the reason Kobe has more help. An elite player also in his prime.

If you take Gasol off the roster, then the question could be asked.

You can't ignore Gasol being on the roster.

[Leetonidas]

Are you REALLY trying to say Kobe has worse teammates than LeBron? REALLY? This has to be a troll thread.

[Leetonidas]

Gasol is the reason Kobe has more help. An elite player also in his prime.

If you take Gasol off the roster, then the question could be asked.

You can't ignore Gasol being on the roster.

Exactly, Gasol is a top 5 big man in the NBA today, which is invaluable in the NBA. The Lakers have 2 players in the top 5 at their position and not to mention Bynum, Odom, and Artest. They may have their problems but you put those three guys on the Spurs and I guarantee that we are stomping on the Lakers in the WCF right now.

[dirk4mvp]

This thread was started by someone who thought they were banned from Spurstalk for almost a year without realizing it was just him not being able to type the address correctly. No surprises here.

[DAF86]

Kobe might have more help but he's better. Lebron's supporting cast didn't make him quit and go 4-13.

'Cause Kobe has never sucked in elimination games. :rolleyes

[lefty]

Yes

The Refs

[DAF86]

This thread was started by someone who thought they were banned from Spurstalk for almost a year without realizing it was just him not being able to type the address correctly. No surprises here.

lol, link to story please.

[mogrovejo]

Kobe, Gasol, Odom and Artest would all be the 2nd best player in the Cavs. Ditto for a healthy Bynum.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

'Cause Kobe has never sucked in elimination games. :rolleyes


I wasn't aware 2006 was relevant to this thread.

[HarlemHeat37]

What about 2008?..Kobe played worse than Lebron did, and that Boston team was only slightly better than this one defensively IMO..Lebron didn't quit, he had a bad game..Kobe's having a great playoffs so far, but he struggled against the only good defensive team he's went up again, just to compare..

As for this thread, it's not even arguable in any way..

-Top 2/3 big man in the NBA..
-Extreme size advantage over every team in the NBA with Gasol/Bynum/Odom..
-Good perimeter defender in Artest..
-The supposed GOAT coach..

[dirk4mvp]

lol, link to story please.

IDK where it is but when he came back he tried to get buck on Kori and got sploaded

[DAF86]

I wasn't aware 2006 was relevant to this thread.

I wasn't aware one game was enough to determine that a player is better than other.

P/S: I wasn't even thinking of that game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I wasn't aware one game was enough to determine that a player is better than other.

P/S: I wasn't even thinking of that game.


Kobe sucked in 2008, he didn't quit. Lebron is a quitter. He quit in game 5, and it rubbed off on his whole team in game 6, causing them to quit. It's not just one game, it's the fact Kobe is a complete player. Lebron is built like Karl Malone and he has no post game. he's been in the NBA for 7 years and still has no jumper. There are too many holes in Lebron's game for him to be better than Kobe.

[da_suns_fan]

da, shruggin' off stay humble/stay hungry.

tee, hee.

I meant to say doesnt Kobe have more help than EVERYONE.

That is, he has a ton of help in the best front court in the NBA, the best "6th man" in LO and Derek Fisher and Artest.

[DAF86]

Kobe sucked in 2008, he didn't quit. Lebron is a quitter. He quit in game 5, and it rubbed off on his whole team in game 6, causing them to quit. It's not just one game, it's the fact Kobe is a complete player. Lebron is built like Karl Malone and he has no post game. he's been in the NBA for 7 years and still has no jumper. There are too many holes in Lebron's game for him to be better than Kobe.

Proof?

I don't know if he quitted or not (I think not), all I know is Lebron is the best player in the NBA 'cause he is by far the player that does more to help his team win games, even on these playoffs I don't know if there's a player that has done more than him to help his team get Ws.

[mogrovejo]

LeBron will one day shoot better than Kobe from distance and people will still say that he still has no jumper, like it's 2006 forever.

I think that may happen, I don't know, this past season.

LeBron was the best player in this playoffs by far. Even his bad series was good. He was better against Boston defense than Kobe against OKC defense. It isn't even a contest.

[redzero]

The thing about the Lakers is that their second best player is far and away better than any of LeBron's teammates. LeBron might have a solid starting five and a solid bench, but he doesn't have a number two (Wizards players don't count).

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Proof?

I don't know if he quitted or not (I think not), all I know is Lebron is the best player in the NBA 'cause he is by far the player that does more to help his team win games, even on these playoffs I don't know if there's a player that has done more than him to help his team get Ws.


The proof of Lebron quitting is him camping in the corner of the court watching Anthony Parker and Anderson Varejao trying to create their own shot. Did Lebron do everything he could to help his team beat Boston? You can't honestly say yes to that question.

[JamStone]

Kobe still averaged 26 points and 5 assists in the 2008 Finals. He didn't play great. He shoot a low percentage, but that's not anything new. He had a really bad second half in game 5. And game 7 got out of hand and Kobe couldn't do anything about it. I don't know about Kobe having "sucked" in 2008. Wasn't a HOF NBA finals for him, but saying he "sucked" is probably too much. Kobe didn't get much because his front court teammates were getting pushed around by the Boston front court. If you look at their numbers, Gasol and Odom actually looked like they played all right statistically. But the truth is they played like pussies against the Celtics.

[DAF86]

The proof of Lebron quitting is him camping in the corner of the court watching Anthony Parker and Anderson Varejao trying to create their own shot. Did Lebron do everything he could to help his team beat Boston? You can't honestly say yes to that question.

"Tiny Cains" ESPNdeportes comentator and BB coach made a great point while he was working game 6 of the Celtics-Cavs series. He said that in 2009Lebron averaged 40 something points and Cavs still lost, and that he was trying to get his teammates going against the Celtics knowing that he wasn't going to win the series by himself.

In game 6 he sure looked like he wanted it. Why would he quit in game 5 and play like he gives a crap in game 6?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I wasn't aware 9 turnovers is wanting it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And :lmao at you believing some idiot beaner announcer who thinks standing in the corner doing nothing is trying to get your teammates going.

[DAF86]

I wasn't aware 9 turnovers is wanting it.

You usually make TO when you force things, you force things when you want them.

[DAF86]

And :lmao at you believing some idiot beaner announcer who thinks standing in the corner doing nothing is trying to get your teammates going.

He still got 14 shots attempts, 12 FT attemps, 7 assts and 6 rbds. That's not nothing. Maybe just maybe, missing 11 of his 14 FG made him lost a bit of confidence and he felt like letting others take over was going to be more productive for his team. Even though he doesn't look like one, he's still a human, he is going to have bad games from time to time.

[in2deep]

Odom + Gasol are already more than any help Lebron ever had :rolleyes

[Roddy Beaubois]

Kobe has a superstar to play with, Lebron doesn't. That alone is a huge difference.

+1 its all about that 2nd option.

[Pelicans78]

Lebron's offensive game still isn't good enough for him to win a championship as a go-to-guy. He's not a very good shooter, 3-point shooter, or post player. His game is still pretty raw.

[diego]

There are too many holes in Lebron's game for him to be better than Kobe.

right, and shane battier is better than shaq. shaq has too many holes in his game! when teams line up against a lebron or a shaq, they just lick their chops looking to exploit all them holes.

kobe on the other hand, no team has an answer for him. he's never lost a playoff series! he has so much all around game, that when the playoffs come he INTENTIONALLY scores less, with less efficiency, rebounds less, assists less, steals less, and blocks less then lebron just to rub his superior intangibles, range, dazzling array of post moves, and superior pick setting ability in lebron's face.
:lol

[DAF86]

right, and shane battier is better than shaq. shaq has too many holes in his game! when teams line up against a lebron or a shaq, they just lick their chops looking to exploit all them holes.

kobe on the other hand, no team has an answer for him. he's never lost a playoff series! he has so much all around game, that when the playoffs come he INTENTIONALLY scores less, with less efficiency, rebounds less, assists less, steals less, and blocks less then lebron just to rub his superior intangibles, range, dazzling array of post moves, and superior pick setting ability in lebron's face.
:lol

lol

[Aggie Hoopsdouche]

Both have more help than Duncan, because those teams don't have that hack Popovich sabotaging their roster with his "Friends of Pop" routine. Whoever thinks Popovich can build a contender is a retard.

[mogrovejo]

right, and shane battier is better than shaq. shaq has too many holes in his game! when teams line up against a lebron or a shaq, they just lick their chops looking to exploit all them holes.

kobe on the other hand, no team has an answer for him. he's never lost a playoff series! he has so much all around game, that when the playoffs come he INTENTIONALLY scores less, with less efficiency, rebounds less, assists less, steals less, and blocks less then lebron just to rub his superior intangibles, range, dazzling array of post moves, and superior pick setting ability in lebron's face.
:lol

Haha, excellent post. Tommy point.

[Mr Bones]

LeBron's the only guy in the league who can put up Kobe-like numbers in a game and be criticized for having an "off night."

[hater]

LeBron's the only guy in the league who can put up Kobe-like numbers in a game and be criticized for having an "off night."

:tu :tu

[pauls931]

Going beyond Gasol, he has a coach that's not a complete dumbass.

[tdunk21]

yes....before gasol came to lakers, i guess the lakers missed the playoffs once.....so kobe has more help than lebron....kobe has gasol, odom, artest and often injured bynum......

[Baseline]

Is the OP kidding me which this question?

All Bryant has to do is feed the post, and the Suns' bigs will be fouled out by halftime.

How many times do learned and accomplished people like Doug Collins and Jeff Van Gundy have to reiterate that Pau Gasol is the best big man in the NBA? LeBron has nothing close to the supporting cast Bryant has.

The difference is that LeBron gets 1000 times more out of his supporting cast than Bryant gets out of his. Bryant doesn't make his supporting cast better. He merely co-exists with his supporting cast.

Here's the key - if you play with a gunner like Bryant, you can work your tail off to get open, but you still might not get the ball. Compounded over an entire season, that can happen hundreds of times, so it gets very old. Supporters of Bryant complain about the other guys standing around watching Bryant. Well, there's a reason for that - if they knew they'd get the ball, they'd move. But Bryant only gives it up when he feels like it. Bryant doesn't really play team basketball - he plays team basketball with him being the first option at all times. That's the difference. Bryant plays selfish basketball. But the Cavs know that LeBron will find you. They know that every game, first quarter though fourth quarter. In fact, if anything, LeBron is too unselfish.

Also, LeBron hits the open man, no matter who the open man is ...Leon Powe, Jamario Moon, etc. Doesn't matter. You're open, you get the ball. Period. But with LA, you might be open, but if Bryant wants to shoot, then you better hit the offensive board or he'll be screaming at you. Again, Bryant (who just missed another contested jumper) will yell at you, even though he's the one who missed the open man and jacked up a shot.

Have you ever if your life heard a teammate of LeBron's complaining in the press that he needs to pass the ball more? Of course not. But we've heard that countless times about Bryant through the years, and that's only from guys who aren't too scared to say something. Bryant has a vice grip on the whole city. Don Corleone has nothing on Bryant. So for a complaint about Bryant to get through the gauntlet and actually reach the press, you know it's an enormous issue. On the other hand, if Bryant has a complaint about management or anything else Laker-related, ESPN sprays it in our face 24/7, as if they're literally working for Byant as his personal PR department, and the entire city of LA comes to Bryant's defense.

[namlook]

The Cavs were favored to win it all after they picked up Jamison because everyone felt they were the best team with the most talent. All the experts and every non-Lakers fan was picking the Cavs. Everyone said if Lebron can't win it this year, with this loaded roster it's on him. Well guess what? It on him.

[namlook]

LeBron's the only guy in the league who can put up Kobe-like numbers in a game and be criticized for having an "off night."

This game is not about numbers it's about winning. If you underachieve you will get criticized, and rightfully so.

[cobbler]

Have you ever if your life heard a teammate of LeBron's complaining in the press that he needs to pass the ball more?

Never heard them say "I really like this ring" either. :lol

[diego]

This game is not about numbers it's about winning.

ah, a member of the "horry is the best player of our generation" club eh? or is it career wins, RS and PO? good luck finding that stat




ps: I agree stats dont tell the whole story, but you set yourself up for that rebuttal

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Have you ever if your life heard a teammate of LeBron's complaining in the press that he needs to pass the ball more?


No, instead, you see dumbfounded looks on his teammates faces at key playoff moments because they have no idea why he's trying to stay as far away from the ball as possible.

[Smooth Criminal]

Kobe has a superstar to play with, Lebron doesn't. That alone is a huge difference.
Pau is a superstar like I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World...he's an all star, nothing more

[HarlemHeat37]

Pau is a superstar like I'm the Most Interesting Man in the World...he's an all star, nothing more

:rollin:rollin:rollin

He may not be a superstar based on your own definition, but he has a great argument as a top 5-7 player in the NBA..only Howard and maybe Dirk are better bigs..

[dirk4mvp]

:lol Lakerfans downplaying Gasol's importance to boost Kobe up. It's sad, lakerfans.