where is RuffNready,the Scientist worshipers, and Darwin lovers now?

[mouse]

You guy are quick to make a topic about the latest scientific discovery, the latest NASA accomplishments, and you use lightning speed to post any new evidence that Evolution is a fact, but yet you hide when your so-called scientific modern technology you constantly brag about backfires and destroys the Earth?

Topic after topic, post after post of non stop horn tooting about science and how NASA is finding signs of life elsewhere and yet you guys can't even figure out how to take oil out of the sea without ruining the gulf coast?

Your so-called super intelligent scientific pals and NASA Guinness's can't even figure out how to clean up the oil and they have the nerve to want to actually go to the MOON and Mars so they can fuck things up their also?

I like how when technology backfires how you all run and hide. Like the worthless Darwin lovers you are.

[Leetonidas]

The master of trolling. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

You guy are quick to make a topic about the latest scientific discovery, the latest NASA accomplishments, and you use lightning speed to post any new evidence that Evolution is a fact, but yet you hide when your so-called scientific modern technology you constantly brag about backfires and destroys the Earth?

Topic after topic, post after post of non stop horn tooting about science and how NASA is finding signs of life elsewhere and yet you guys can't even figure out how to take oil out of the sea without ruining the gulf coast?

Your so-called super intelligent scientific pals and NASA Guinness's can't even figure out how to clean up the oil and they have the nerve to want to actually go to the MOON and Mars so they can fuck things up their also?

I like how when technology backfires how you all run and hide. Like the worthless Darwin lovers you are.

Translation:

"I am kinda bored. How about if I say some stuff to goad people into yet another debate using a viewpoint that I don't really quite believe in myself?"

Knock yerself out mouse. :toast

How ya been? You seem to have been kinda quiet for a while. Hope you are ok.

[mouse]

Translation:

"I am kinda bored. How about if I say some stuff to goad people into yet another debate using a viewpoint that I don't really quite believe in myself?"

Knock yerself out mouse. :toast

Translation: I won't hide i will just simply change the subject.


How ya been? You seem to have been kinda quiet for a while.

The online dating got out of hand when I tried Craigslist. I ended up getting robbed, and I had to move. I stayed offline until I felt things are back to normal.


Hope you are ok.

I wished you and your Foster drinking kangaroo pal Ruff felt the same about planet Earth.

[RandomGuy]

The online dating got out of hand when I tried Craigslist. I ended up getting robbed, and I had to move. I stayed offline until I felt things are back to normal.

Yeah, I kinda heard/read about that. Good luck in the future.

I promise, if I ever meet any females with your peculiar ideological/worldview bent, I will send them your way with glowing recommendations.

[RandomGuy]

I wished you and your Foster drinking kangaroo pal Ruff felt the same about planet Earth.

Man, you miss a lot of the arguing for environmentalism I do in the politics forums. :lol

[koriwhat]

mouse, you got robbed by some chick off craigslist? ahahahahahahahahaha! well not to laugh at you but the situation is kind of funny. wtf?!

[Blake]

I like how when technology backfires how you all run and hide. Like the worthless Darwin lovers you are.

you might be the only person in the several billion year old history of the universe to try to use failing to clean up an oil spill quickly as a reason to start crying and whining about NASA wanting to go to the moon and/or Mars.

[Blake]

mouse, you got robbed by some chick off craigslist? ahahahahahahahahaha! well not to laugh at you but the situation is kind of funny. wtf?!

purposely putting Spurs logo tats on your calves is kind of sad.

[mouse]

Yeah, I kinda heard/read about that. Good luck in the future.

I promise, if I ever meet any females with your peculiar ideological/worldview bent, I will send them your way with glowing recommendations.

Thanks!:toast

[mouse]

Man, you miss a lot of the arguing for environmentalism I do in the politics forums. :lol

Can you post a link in here of the good $hit I missed?

[mouse]

mouse, you got robbed by some chick off craigslist? ahahahahahahahahaha! well not to laugh at you but the situation is kind of funny. wtf?!


hey you have all the right to make fun of me all you want after all the crap I gave you over the years! :toast

[mouse]

purposely putting Spurs logo tats on your calves is kind of sad.


At the time he did it it was cool and he did get his 15 minutes of fame out of it. Besides if the Spurs would have won another ring this year he would have no problem getting laid. ( I'm guessing)

[mouse]

you might be the only person in the several billion year old history of the universe to try to use failing to clean up an oil spill quickly as a reason to start crying and whining about NASA wanting to go to the moon and/or Mars.

That is the problem with you close minded atheists you never see the big picture. Time and time again every time Scientists come up with a new gadget you guys are there to rub it in our faces. Every time NASA finds a maggot on mars you guys cum in your boxers. But you never blame scientist for all the fuck ups. Your bias and your closed minded. What good is all this science if we
don't have a planet to live on anymore? Do we still have world hunger,Cancer,...do we still rely on oil to get around? Where is all this new science? oh wait...they are to busy trying to put robots on the moon.

[phyzik]

That is the problem with you close minded atheists you never see the big picture. Time and time again every time Scientists come up with a new gadget you guys are there to rub it in our faces. Every time NASA finds a maggot on mars you guys cum in your boxers. But you never blame scientist for all the fuck ups. Your bias and your closed minded. What good is all this science if we
don't have a planet to live on anymore? Do we still have world hunger,Cancer,...do we still rely on oil to get around? Where is all this new science? oh wait...they are to busy trying to put robots on the moon.

is this science enough for you?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20005538-1.html

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/05/20/leaf_550x315.jpg

a car that runs on CO2 and pumps out oxygen.

[Nathan Explosion]

Do we still have world hunger,Cancer,...do we still rely on oil to get around? Where is all this new science? oh wait...they are to busy trying to put robots on the moon.

I'll bite for a second, but only one post as I don't really care about the response. It's easy. Pharmaceutical companies want to slowly release any new drugs that are developed and charge outrageous prices when they do release them, thereby keeping money in their pockets.

All the new technology when it comes to fuel is being suppressed by the oil companies their cronies in Washington. This oil spill could have been helped long ago if BP just told the truth instead of trying to cover their collective asses over and over again.

When it finally got out of hand and too big for them to lie their way out of, then the execs at BP decided to shoot straight. And still I doubt them.

Fact is, the technology has been in the works, but without proper funding and a market to let the technology to come out at an affordable price, we can't progress. Instead of the high oil prices forcing the government to fund R&D on feasible alternative fuel plans, the government decided to invade Iraq in an effort to gain access to more oil reserves.

Instead of looking forward, far too many in our government are concerned with keeping the status quo because it allows their pockets to fill more and more.

Wow, I haven't done that in a long time, like years. Rant over.

[redzero]

Is this a non sequitur?

[boutons_deux]

BP oil spill proves Creationism and hard-assed Bible literalism are "true".

[Re-Animator]

I'll bite for a second, but only one post as I don't really care about the response. It's easy. Pharmaceutical companies want to slowly release any new drugs that are developed and charge outrageous prices when they do release them, thereby keeping money in their pockets.

All the new technology when it comes to fuel is being suppressed by the oil companies their cronies in Washington. This oil spill could have been helped long ago if BP just told the truth instead of trying to cover their collective asses over and over again.

When it finally got out of hand and too big for them to lie their way out of, then the execs at BP decided to shoot straight. And still I doubt them.

Fact is, the technology has been in the works, but without proper funding and a market to let the technology to come out at an affordable price, we can't progress. Instead of the high oil prices forcing the government to fund R&D on feasible alternative fuel plans, the government decided to invade Iraq in an effort to gain access to more oil reserves.

Instead of looking forward, far too many in our government are concerned with keeping the status quo because it allows their pockets to fill more and more.

Wow, I haven't done that in a long time, like years. Rant over.


+1

I can't wait until we go to mars and fuck things up there as well.

[lint]

+1

I can't wait until we go to mars and fuck things up there as well.

http://dev.vulturedroppings.com/wp-content/uploads/retro/602blog_total_recall.gif

[ChumpDumper]

Why doesn't God just stop the leak himself?

[Sisk]

so all it takes is for someone to rob you for you to stay off of the board?..

paging mavs>spurs...........

[mouse]

Why doesn't God just stop the leak himself?


The same reason the apes at the zoo don't ask to be let go after their tails fall off.

[mouse]

so all it takes is for someone to rob you for you to stay off of the board?..

paging mavs>spurs...........

The girls who have this wham bam thank you scam lurk here. That is how I got the link. Someone who wants to stay anonymous gave me a link and you can see all the other websites who have such stories by following the links. There are at least two men who post at this site that have told me in private they too were victims of the craigslist date scam. These girls are attractive, they are ex hooter waitresses or part time pole dancers. What they do is really not illegal.

You simply go on a date and then the second date they invite you to a motel or apartment. After your naked a man comes in claiming to be the husband. sometimes with a gun in his hand. You have a choice grab your pants minus your money and leave , or call the police and have to explain to your family why you was in a strange persons room naked with a girl half your age, a married one at that. do the math that is why you hardly hear about this scam.

[Nathan Explosion]

What they do is really not illegal.

Robbing someone is quite illegal.


You simply go on a date and then the second date they invite you to a motel or apartment. After your naked a man comes in claiming to be the husband. sometimes with a gun in his hand. You have a choice grab your pants minus your money and leave , or call the police and have to explain to your family why you was in a strange persons room naked with a girl half your age, a married one at that. do the math that is why you hardly hear about this scam.

Well, I'm single. I don't have to explain anything to anyone.

[mouse]

Robbing someone is quite illegal.

There is no robbery if you don't press charges. The girls are just going out on dates. The husband has the right to be angry. You have the choice to leave your cash or call the cops. Where is the crime?

Are you going to be the first one to be on TV tonight on the evening news telling San Antonio how you was in a motel room with a married woman with your family watching the TV while they eat dinner?




Well, I'm single. I don't have to explain anything to anyone.

Most bottles of hand lotion don't need anyone to explain things to them.

http://wonderfulwortelworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/jergens-ultra-healing-extra-dry-skin-moisturizer.jpg

[Sisk]

Having a gun in hand, is quite illegal.

Fail story. Fail dating.

Fail overall.

[mouse]

Having a gun in hand, is quite illegal.

Fail story. Fail dating.

Fail overall.

You want the link, lets see you in action show us all how to un-fail.

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/w4m/1763011290.html

[Blake]

What they do is really not illegal.

You simply go on a date and then the second date they invite you to a motel or apartment. After your naked a man comes in claiming to be the husband. sometimes with a gun in his hand. You have a choice grab your pants minus your money and leave , or call the police and have to explain to your family why you was in a strange persons room naked with a girl half your age, a married one at that. do the math that is why you hardly hear about this scam.

:lol

absolutely that is illegal.

[Sisk]

You're on craigslist "looking for love".. I'll never do that shit, and I don't feel sorry for you.

[Blake]

There is no robbery if you don't press charges. The girls are just going out on dates. The husband has the right to be angry. You have the choice to leave your cash or call the cops. Where is the crime?

that's like saying a rape isn't a crime unless you report it.

[Blake]

You want the link, lets see you in action show us all how to un-fail.

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/w4m/1763011290.html

un-fail #1 occurs by not opening the link in the first place.

[Stacie]

that's like saying a rape isn't a crime unless you report it.

Then as long as little boys in church don't say anything the priest is not committing a sin?

[Fabbs]

You want the link, lets see you in action show us all how to un-fail.

http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/w4m/1763011290.html
mouse,
could you fill in the steps as to how it got from the ad to you two in a hotel with clothes off?

[Fabbs]

^^ ^^ ^^


These girls are attractive, they are ex hooter waitresses or part time pole dancers. What they do is really not illegal.

You simply go on a date and then the second date they invite you to a motel or apartment. After your naked a man comes in claiming to be the husband. sometimes with a gun in his hand. You have a choice grab your pants minus your money and leave , or call the police and have to explain to your family why you was in a strange persons room naked with a girl half your age, a married one at that. do the math that is why you hardly hear about this scam.
Attractive ex hooter waitress/part time pole dancer: "Hi mouse, this is Ginny. I really enjoyed having coffee the other day and meeting you. Would you like to go down on me tonight at a motel?"

[TenBuckTammy]

I could have saved you time and money.

[Blake]

Then as long as little boys in church don't say anything the priest is not committing a sin?

I would think God would know of a sin being committed, regardless of the little boys reporting it or not.

[ChumpDumper]

The same reason the apes at the zoo don't ask to be let go after their tails fall off.What reason is that?

[mouse]

What reason is that?

Evolution is a theory at best.

[ChumpDumper]

Evolution is a theory at best.Why would that prevent God from stopping an oil leak?

[DMX7]

Science is the reason they can even drill at that depth.

[mouse]

Why would that prevent God from stopping an oil leak?

Are you really that naive or you just want to debate with me?

be honest.....first off if there is a creator or a GOD!

That person does not want to be a puppet master. Do you buy a fish aquarium and tie little strings to the fish and make them swim where you want them to swim, or do you sit back and watch them do their own thing?

Do you go to class with your kids and tell them what answers to put down during the test or do you want to see how smart they are on their own?

Do you fast froward your DVD movies to see the ending before you watch the entire movie?


Then why would an alien being or GOD go though all the trouble of creating a universe just to make people do as he wishes? What fun is that?

If God was going to get involved in our lives he would have slapped that apple out of eve's hand before she took one bite.

he would have slapped those two planes out of the sky before they hit the twin towers on 9/11

he would have made sure Hitler's father's sperm was sterile.


Do you not get what I am saying..........

[mouse]

Science is the reason they can even drill at that depth.

Read more, post less.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Main Entry: Ludd·ite
Pronunciation: \ˈlə-ˌdīt\
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from Ned Ludd, 18th century Leicestershire workman who destroyed a knitting frame
Date: 1811
: one of a group of early 19th century English workmen destroying laborsaving machinery as a protest; broadly : one who is opposed to especially technological change

Main Entry: cre·a·tion·ism
Pronunciation: \-shə-ˌni-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1880
: a doctrine or theory holding that matter, the various forms of life, and the world were created by God out of nothing and usually in the way described in Genesis — compare evolution

The two issues are completely different and this attempt at trolling is taking everything that mouse has to maintain.

[mouse]

Show me where In posted I believe in God second, I am all for technology, I want science to cure cancer before they look for water on Mars is that so wrong?

Do you get your feelings hurt like Chump because I don't conform to your ways of thinking? Let me know now save us both some time.

[Fabbs]

Are you really that naive or you just want to debate with me?

be honest.....first off if there is a creator or a GOD!

That person does not want to be a puppet master. Do you buy a fish aquarium and tie little strings to the fish and make them swim where you want them to swim, or do you sit back and watch them do their own thing?

Do you go to class with your kids and tell them what answers to put down during the test or do you want to see how smart they are on their own?

Do you fast froward your DVD movies to see the ending before you watch the entire movie?


Then why would an alien being or GOD go though all the trouble of creating a universe just to make people do as he wishes? What fun is that?

If God was going to get involved in our lives he would have slapped that apple out of eve's hand before she took one bite.

he would have slapped those two planes out of the sky before they hit the twin towers on 9/11

he would have made sure Hitler's father's sperm was sterile.


Do you not get what I am saying..........
nice illustrations mouser.
Indeed, God created us as free moral agents with choice.

[DMX7]

Read more, post less.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_well

Nice catch phrase. Too bad you're still wrong. Sorry. :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Are you really that naive or you just want to debate with me?

be honest.....first off if there is a creator or a GOD!

That person does not want to be a puppet master. Do you buy a fish aquarium and tie little strings to the fish and make them swim where you want them to swim, or do you sit back and watch them do their own thing?

Do you go to class with your kids and tell them what answers to put down during the test or do you want to see how smart they are on their own?

Do you fast froward your DVD movies to see the ending before you watch the entire movie?


Then why would an alien being or GOD go though all the trouble of creating a universe just to make people do as he wishes? What fun is that?

If God was going to get involved in our lives he would have slapped that apple out of eve's hand before she took one bite.

he would have slapped those two planes out of the sky before they hit the twin towers on 9/11

he would have made sure Hitler's father's sperm was sterile.


Do you not get what I am saying..........I get what you are saying.

God is kind of a capricious dick. He used to help out but now, for no apparent reason, he doesn't.

That's your God. Worship him. He still expects it whether he helps you out or not, right?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Uh-huh. So, let me see. I am the guy constantly warning about the environmental dangers inherent in the wasteful disposable lifestyle we all live (to a great or lesser extent - I have certainly lessened mine, although I have a way yet to go), the dangers inherent in the dependence of the world economy on a non-renewable, toxic, dangerous substance (oil) which will soon become too expensive for the average person to use (thank fuck - this will cause a revolution in the world's energy infrastructure), and you want to pin this on me. Go fuck yourself, little man. GO FUCK YOURSELF. I am appalled by this shambles, but not at all surprised. This is EXACTLY THE KIND OF EVENT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR A DECADE. AND THEY ARE HAPPENING ALL AROUND US ALL THE TIME. But no-one wants to know, so I get heckled and abused and eventually I have decided what is the fucking point about arguning this shit any more. People will be people, and no matter the fuck ups that leads to, nothing I can do will change it.

I would happily give up my car in favour of bikes and massively beefed-up public transport, and I would already be switching our entire transport infrastructure away from dependence on oil if I were in charge, and I act on these issues (ride my bike, use buses, use very little LPG), spread the word on these issues and teach them to people who had never even considered them before, so I am doing my bit... but no, you want to have a go at me from your ignorant little pulpit.

Y'know why I haven't been around here... really want to know? Because my best friend in the fucking world has about two weeks to live, and I have to go and watch him die. That's where I've been, mouse, you fucking dipshit cunt. WATCHING MY FRIEND DIE. And what probably caused it - all the fucking chemicals we are exposed to. He has an apparently rare form of cancer called multiple myeloma, but since he got it I've met 6 other people who know someone with it or someone who died from it. There are no clear causes apart from radiation and exposure to chemicals. What do we make chemicals from? OIL. Oil is fucking death. And you want to have a go at me for disappearing.

Fuck you.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Are you really that naive or you just want to debate with me?

be honest.....first off if there is a creator or a GOD!

That person does not want to be a puppet master. Do you buy a fish aquarium and tie little strings to the fish and make them swim where you want them to swim, or do you sit back and watch them do their own thing?

Do you go to class with your kids and tell them what answers to put down during the test or do you want to see how smart they are on their own?

Do you fast froward your DVD movies to see the ending before you watch the entire movie?


Then why would an alien being or GOD go though all the trouble of creating a universe just to make people do as he wishes? What fun is that?

If God was going to get involved in our lives he would have slapped that apple out of eve's hand before she took one bite.

he would have slapped those two planes out of the sky before they hit the twin towers on 9/11

he would have made sure Hitler's father's sperm was sterile.


Do you not get what I am saying..........

Let's do a little thought experiment... if you can't follow, I won't be surprised, but let's give it a go.

1. the 'Universe' is effectively infinite. In our galaxy alone there are 200-400,000,000,000 stars. There are billions of galaxies in the known universe. Multiply it out, do the math. Let's just say the universe is effectively infinite.

2. the conditions for life are not particularly difficult to replicate - you can do it (produce RNA and proteins, the building blocks of life) in a laboratory with natural ingredients (a primordial chemical soup and simulated lightning accompanied by the right atmosphere).

3. you also need a planet suitable for that life to flourish on - the right distance from a star (to be bathed in energy to the point that water exists as a liquid) - but once you get the elemental cycles (carbon/oxygen/nitrogen etc) going, life self perpetuates.

Conclusion - there are an effectively infinite number of stars, and an infinite number of planets around them, and life could occur on a small proportion of them. A small proportion of infinity is infinity, so there must be other life in the universe. Do you honestly believe that this is the only planet life evolved on? No, right? No fucking way. There is other life in the universe, and probably a lot of it, although the Universe is a big place so the life's probably pretty spread out.

Moving on; this 'God' of which you talk... is he the alien's God as well? Why does this God spend so much time concerned with humanity when he has billions of other life-containing planets of different species to worry about? Is he a human God, and if so why is he so fascinated by us when he has the Gargamels of Urbutthole 4 to lord over?

I see the universe as a massive, utterly interconnected, infinitely complex system, one of the emergent properties of which is patterns that might be misinterpreted by some as the actions of a benevolent deity. However, I don't think there is a deity looking down from on high and judging whether we are good people - I think that is up to us and those around us, it is OUR responsibility to each other to be moral, not our responsibility to some vengeful God.

Believe whatever you like, just ask yourself why you feel the need to shove it down our throats. Seriously, when was the last time I came in here starting threads to pick fights with people over reason vs faith? I never have. Why? Because it's fine with me for you to believe whatever you like. I only ever react when I see blatant misinterpretation and lies being spread by ignorant or agenda-driven people, and quite frankly I can't even be bothered to react to them any more.

I'm done. Continue your hate-fest, go get drunk and laid, masturbate to a picture of God fucking Sarah Palin in the arse, do whatever you fucking like, but stop slandering me with your bullshit for no reason, eh? It's tiring and unnecessary.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

One final thing - this oil fiasco is not a failure of science, it is a failure of (in no particular order):

1. economics - which has encouraged us to over-exploit our non-renewable natural resources and thus quickly pushed us towards increasingly riskier mining, particularly of oil, and towards a point where oil will soon be scarce. That will be the first true tipping point for global civilisation, and it is looming sooner than you think. Meanwhile, we have disasterous oil spills like this because economics, and in particular its complete ignorance of externalities such as pollution and depletion, has locked oil and other fossil fuels into the key economic position around which everything gravitates. Break that nexus and you change the world.

2. engineering - since offshore drilling is not new, this has to be a failure of design, construction or materials... whichever it is, it has nothing to do with science (the discovery of new, universal, verifiable knowledge) and everything to do with poor engineering practices, probably as a result of cost cutting (see 1.) and lack of proper oversight (see 3.).

3. government - the government's job as regulator is to be vigilant on industry in order to maintain quality and safety standards and protect the public... this is a miserable regulatory failure.

4. politics - corporations now control national governments and use their influence to privatise and deregulate at every opportunity - the result is this and disasters like it, which are happening all the time. Voters are to blame for buying into bullshit binary politics rather than breaking down the Old Guard, and governments are to blame because they have been emasculated by institutional corruption (bought by the lobbies) and thus act to stiffle change for the better.

5. ALL OF US - oil is embedded in everything we buy; food, transport, plastics, chemicals, electronics, anything transported to us, etc., so we are ALL complicit in this oil slick because our livestyles drive this insane demand for fossil fuels. Want fewer environmental disasters of all kinds, use less oil and other fossil fuels.

What to do about it?

Educate yourself!
Become politically active.
Spread the word on issues important to you.
Lessen your impact: CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE.

Change is possible, but we all have to act.

PS Sorry, how was science to blame again? :rolleyes

[Muser]

How the fuck is Science to blame? :lmao

[Fabbs]

There is no robbery if you don't press charges. The girls are just going out on dates. The husband has the right to be angry. You have the choice to leave your cash or call the cops. Where is the crime?
I'm with Nathan, Sisk and Blake, mouse.
Pulling a gun on someone without valid cause is indeed a crime. Previously you posted


You simply go on a date and then the second date they invite you to a motel or apartment. After your naked a man comes in claiming to be the husband. sometimes with a gun in his hand.

You had a pretty good troll going, but you need to edit the gun part and explain how an attractive ex hooters/pole dancer would initiate making your second date to be at a motel.

[boutons_deux]

Ruff leaves out the primary culprit, capitalist/corporate predation that values profits OVER everything, with the powerful, wealthy corps willing, and able, to fuckup up people and the environment, to compromise and corrupt legislators and regulators which are the only countervailing power, to satisfy their insatiable desire for the accumulation of wealth without limits.

While I sympathize with his position, Ruff's naive to think that citizen activism will even limit, never mind solve the problem. Irrepressible corporate money, now seen as "personal" money, owns the electoral process before it owns the politicians. The best financed candidates win 90% of the time. ie, the electoral process is bought by, sold by, and delivered to the corporations and capitalists.

America is fucked. The class, race, gender wars are unwinnable, even over, won by Repug/conservative wealthy white males.

[angrydude]

Before you all keep on attacking capitalism and greed you might want to consider the reason we have to drill out in 5000 ft of water in the first place.......govt restrictions on drilling on land.

I swear. listening to some of you people its like you'd think communist china during the 1960's was a super sweet place to live.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ruff leaves out the primary culprit, capitalist/corporate predation that values profits OVER everything, with the powerful, wealthy corps willing, and able, to fuckup up people and the environment, to compromise and corrupt legislators and regulators which are the only countervailing power, to satisfy their insatiable desire for the accumulation of wealth without limits.

While I sympathize with his position, Ruff's naive to think that citizen activism will even limit, never mind solve the problem. Irrepressible corporate money, now seen as "personal" money, owns the electoral process before it owns the politicians. The best financed candidates win 90% of the time. ie, the electoral process is bought by, sold by, and delivered to the corporations and capitalists.

America is fucked. The class, race, gender wars are unwinnable, even over, won by Repug/conservative wealthy white males.

No I don't, you obviously missed this post:


One final thing - this oil fiasco is not a failure of science, it is a failure of (in no particular order):

1. economics - which has encouraged us to over-exploit our non-renewable natural resources and thus quickly pushed us towards increasingly riskier mining, particularly of oil, and towards a point where oil will soon be scarce. That will be the first true tipping point for global civilisation, and it is looming sooner than you think. Meanwhile, we have disasterous oil spills like this because economics, and in particular its complete ignorance of externalities such as pollution and depletion, has locked oil and other fossil fuels into the key economic position around which everything gravitates. Break that nexus and you change the world.

2. engineering - since offshore drilling is not new, this has to be a failure of design, construction or materials... whichever it is, it has nothing to do with science (the discovery of new, universal, verifiable knowledge) and everything to do with poor engineering practices, probably as a result of cost cutting (see 1.) and lack of proper oversight (see 3.).

3. government - the government's job as regulator is to be vigilant on industry in order to maintain quality and safety standards and protect the public... this is a miserable regulatory failure.

4. politics - corporations now control national governments and use their influence to privatise and deregulate at every opportunity - the result is this and disasters like it, which are happening all the time. Voters are to blame for buying into bullshit binary politics rather than breaking down the Old Guard, and governments are to blame because they have been emasculated by institutional corruption (bought by the lobbies) and thus act to stiffle change for the better.

5. ALL OF US - oil is embedded in everything we buy; food, transport, plastics, chemicals, electronics, anything transported to us, etc., so we are ALL complicit in this oil slick because our livestyles drive this insane demand for fossil fuels. Want fewer environmental disasters of all kinds, use less oil and other fossil fuels.

What to do about it?

Educate yourself!
Become politically active.
Spread the word on issues important to you.
Lessen your impact: CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE.

Change is possible, but we all have to act.

PS Sorry, how was science to blame again? :rolleyes

BTW boutons, I'm not naive enough to think that activism will get anyone anywhere, otherwise I'd be an activist. However, a social movement where people utterly transformed their consumption choices would change everything. Do I think that's likely before the crunch comes? No. But it is the only way things might change.


Before you all keep on attacking capitalism and greed you might want to consider the reason we have to drill out in 5000 ft of water in the first place.......govt restrictions on drilling on land.

I swear. listening to some of you people its like you'd think communist china during the 1960's was a super sweet place to live.

...or you could wake up and realise that there are no large oil deposits on land left to drill. You have 10-12bbl in ANWAR (4 months of world supply), and that's about it. You have oil shale in Colorado and the Canadians have their tar sands, but the major terrestrial liquid oil deposits on the North American continent have all been drilled, and non-conventional oil is far more expensive and environmentally damaging to produce per barrel than (non-spilled) conventional oil. But don't let the facts get in the way of your ignorance.

[sabar]

Technically science is to blame indirectly. If we never developed the technological advances required to drill at extreme depths and pressures, this never would of occurred. Technology can only advance by applied science (or extreme dumb luck).

Of course science is the reason that Mouse can even troll Ruff, so...

[tlongII]

The future is in shale oil reserves. They are far greater than previously thought and the largest concentrations are in North America. The technology to extract it affordably will be available soon. Environmentalists probably won't be happy about this, but it's going to happen.

[mouse]

Ruff if Kori and LJ set up a live debate, are you game?

[mookie2001]

i will moderate

cry havoc is really into ruffandready though too, theyre close like bethleham and nazareth

[mouse]

Of course science is the reason that Mouse can even troll Ruff, so...

Or maybe the reason he gets his kangaroo ass smoked? We all have have eyes bitch ...........post where he kicked my ass...

I made this topic to prove a point...


NASA.....and Many other Organizations can't even cure Diabetes and they want to spend 60 billion of hard working tax paying Americans Dollars to maybe find a cockroach on Mars?

where do I sign up?............

[Winehole23]

You simply go on a date and then the second date they invite you to a motel or apartment. After your naked a man comes in claiming to be the husband. sometimes with a gun in his hand. You have a choice grab your pants minus your money and leave , or call the police and have to explain to your family why you was in a strange persons room naked with a girl half your age, a married one at that. do the math that is why you hardly hear about this scam.Badger game. An oldie but a goody.

[mouse]

Badger game. An oldie but a goody.

Good for who?

[Blake]

Good for who?

good point.

It does the rest of us no good and it hasn't worked for you either.

[mouse]

It got you to reply that alone speaks volumes.......

[RandomGuy]

Can you post a link in here of the good $hit [about you arguing for good environmental policies] I missed?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119679&page=2

Post #33 is a start.

The rest of that page is pure "Man did I call it" gold on my part.



I tend to evaluate environmantal laws from a truly economic perspective, and have found that, more often than many on the right realize, those laws tend to have rather beneficial effects on the economy that are completely overlooked.

Take the restrictions on close-in oil production for example.

They were put in place partly as a reaction to the Exxon Valdez disaster, which is STILL being cleaned up over a decade after the spill.

Oil spills tend to damage a lot more than just a few birds on the beaches. They destroy coastal property values, destroy fishing industries, destroy tourism industries in coastal areas. True economic damage from a catastrophic large oil spill can easily run into the hundreds of millions to billions when all the real economic impacts are tallied up.


I have a few other threads where I push throwing money into renewables and so forth as a pretty good alternative to things like drilling oil that tend to have rather nasty side effects that many people don't factor into their thinking, when chanting "drill, baby, drill".

You might occasionally see the economic term "negative externality" when talking about this.

[Blake]

It got you to reply that alone speaks volumes.......

what good did it do me?

[RandomGuy]

...or you could wake up and realise that there are no large oil deposits on land left to drill. You have 10-12bbl in ANWAR (4 months of world supply), and that's about it. You have oil shale in Colorado and the Canadians have their tar sands, but the major terrestrial liquid oil deposits on the North American continent have all been drilled, and non-conventional oil is far more expensive and environmentally damaging to produce per barrel than (non-spilled) conventional oil. But don't let the facts get in the way of your ignorance.

Oil shale and tar sands will never be economically profitable to produce, no matter how much you relax restrictions on environmental damage.

That energy might as well be on Pluto as far as its usefulness.

Both forms of hydrocarbon require that MOST of the energy you get out of tapping them MUST go back into getting the next unit of energy. Simple physics.

[The Final Countdown]

what good did it do me?
You got mouse to reply that means you may learn something.

[tlongII]

Oil shale and tar sands will never be economically profitable to produce, no matter how much you relax restrictions on environmental damage.

That energy might as well be on Pluto as far as its usefulness.

Both forms of hydrocarbon require that MOST of the energy you get out of tapping them MUST go back into getting the next unit of energy. Simple physics.

Wrong. Shale oil is closer than you think.

[The Final Countdown]

pics?