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ducks
05-30-2010, 10:59 AM
Reports are surfacing around the Valley that illegal-immigrant families with school-age children are fleeing Arizona because of a new immigration law.

Some school officials say enough parents and students have told them they plan to leave the state this summer to indicate Hispanic enrollment could drop at some schools. But there's no way to know exactly how many illegal immigrants will depart because schools do not inquire about a student's or a family's legal status.

Many Latino-heavy school districts say the recession already has pushed many of their families out of state to look for work. The passage of Senate Bill 1070, which widens enforcement of immigration law, has tipped the balance for some parents who tried to stick it out.

For schools, the impact could be loss of students and, as a result, loss of state funding and parent support. The state could see savings.

Despite signs of an exodus, the picture remains murky.

Teachers and principals at Alhambra elementary schools in west Phoenix, for example, are saying goodbye to core volunteer parents, who tell them that the new migration law threatens their family stability and that they must leave. The district expects the new law to drive out an extra 200 to 300 students over the summer.

Balsz Elementary District in east Phoenix lost 70 families in the past 30 days, an unprecedented number, officials said.

In contrast, Isaac Elementary District in Phoenix, where 96 percent of its 8,058 students are Latino, lost fewer students than usual after its Christmas break, and its May enrollment grew by 20 students over last year.

At Balsz, a sense of community is fraying. Every morning for the past two years, 20 to 30 parents in orange T-shirts have gathered at designated spots to walk their children to four elementary schools.

The number of those parents, mostly Latino, began to dwindle in January after the migration bill was introduced. By spring, no one was showing up. The district's "Walking School Bus Club" ceased to exist.

Those parents were too fearful to walk the streets, parents and school officials say. Some were busy packing for a move.

"I became their friend, and saying goodbye is never easy," said Rosemarie Garcia, the district's parent liaison and organizer of the walking club.

The impact debate

Driving out illegal immigrants is the stated purpose of Senate Bill 1070. Arizona's immigration law makes it a state crime to be in the country illegally. It states that an officer engaged in a lawful stop, detention or arrest shall, when practicable, ask about a person's legal status when reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally.

There is no precise count of Arizona schoolchildren who live with families that have one or more undocumented members.

About 170,000 of Arizona's 1 million K-12 students are children of immigrants and include both citizens and non-citizens, according to a 2009 Pew Hispanic Center study.

For every net decline of one student, a school loses an average of $4,404 in state money. The total amount of funding for the 170,000 children of immigrants is about $749 million, or 16 percent, of the state's education budget.

Arizona schools Superintendent Tom Horne said he can't predict the impact of the new law on enrollment but expects little.

A sizable loss of undocumented families could reduce crowding in some schools and allow others to combine classrooms and reduce teaching staff, said Matthew Ladner, research director for the Goldwater Institute in Phoenix, which has not taken a stance on the law.

"It would actually help the state's balance sheet down the road and would lessen the burden on the general fund," Ladner said.

School officials, however, say that if many immigrant families leave, their schools will suffer.

Losing a share of students does not yield commensurate cost savings for schools, they said. For example, losing 10 students at the third-grade level often won't necessarily save a teacher's salary, and the district must still pay for property maintenance.

Already hit by state budget cuts, schools that lose per-student funding may not be able to pay for manageable class sizes, reading specialists and tutoring.

"When you lose kids, you lose money," Balsz Superintendent Jeffrey Smith said. "It gives you less to work with."

Smith said the only way his district could save money would be to crowd students into four schools and shut down the district's fifth campus.

"It would make us more cost-effective and it would cost less to run them. But I hope that doesn't happen," Smith said.

Another impact is a loss of a sense of community.

Smith talked about the issue while sitting in Brunson-Lee Elementary, which has 435 students.

"This is a walking school," he said. "If this school ever goes down, all these kids would have to be bused farther away.

"So, the parents would be less likely to get to the school to support the school."

What schools say

Although the last day of school is usually joyful, this year, some schools fear what may happen this summer.

Worry has spread through the sprawling, 14,538-student Alhambra Elementary School District in Phoenix, which has lost about 2.5 percent, or about 363 students, a year since 2008. That's when a new law took effect that made it more difficult for employers to hire undocumented workers and the recession began ripping away jobs in earnest.

Latino students make up 75 percent of Alhambra's enrollment. Before SB 1070 became law, families in which one parent was legal could still survive. But jobs remain tight, and now, any undocumented family member can be deported after getting a traffic ticket.

Volunteers are dwindling, and fewer parents are showing up for parent coaching and teacher meetings, Alhambra Superintendent Jim Rice said. This summer, the district expects to lose twice as many students, Rice added.

"Our children have been here since they were 1 year old or 2 years old, and they are ready to go to high school," he said. "That's what makes it tough."

Other districts are not sure what to expect when school resumes in August.

• Mesa Public Schools, the state's largest unified district, has 67,749 students, and Latino students make up 37.5 percent. It anticipates a decrease of 1,500 students, similar to losses over the past four years. It blames a combination of new immigration laws, including SB 1070, and the recession.

• Paradise Valley Unified District in Phoenix, where nearly a quarter of its 33,431 students are Latino, hasn't seen a large drop in total enrollment.

"A lot of our students go to Mexico for the summer, and we're speculating they may not come back," spokeswoman Judi Willis said. "But we don't know."

• Enrollment at Glendale Union High School District, where about half of its 14,940 students are Latino, has held steady, but the number of students signing up for English-language summer school has fallen. High-school districts are less likely to feel the loss because older kids are more likely to stay behind with friends and relatives, said Craig Pletenik, spokesman for Phoenix Union High School, where more than three-fourths of the district's 25,083 students are Latino. "Our kids are older, and closer to the educational finish line." The district hasn't seen a dip in enrollment.

• Teachers at Deer Valley Unified District report that high-school students worry about the new law because their parents are talking about a possible family move. The district lost 200 students two years ago, mainly because of the employer-sanctions law, spokeswoman Sandi Hicks said.

For now, there is no sign of a big change, Hicks said. "They're in school. They haven't left yet." About 15 percent of Deer Valley's 36,498 students are Latino.

• At Isaac Elementary, district spokesman Abedón Fimbres said the district's enrollment declined for several years, then leveled off and grew slightly this year. He said that because the district has the lowest-cost housing of central-city districts, families have fled to its neighborhoods as they lost jobs and income.

Social impact

Claudia Suriano is sitting with four fellow school volunteers at Brunson-Lee Elementary in Phoenix's Balsz district. She is among three who are leaving the state. Two others say their families are still debating.

Suriano is a Phoenix mother of two whose husband just quit a good job as a roofer after five years.

While he has survived atop Valley houses for five summers, he could not stand the heat of the new immigration law.

"He feels so stressed that he's not a citizen. He feels it's going to catch up to him," said Suriano, 27, who also is undocumented. "He speaks excellent English, but he feels a pressure they're going to find out what his status is here, and it's too great a weight for him."

Suriano's husband has been in New Mexico for two weeks, looking for an apartment and a job. She is packing up their Phoenix apartment. "He tells me over in New Mexico, it is like here when we first came: There is no fear and they treat you like human beings."

She tries to explain to her two children, one of whom is not a citizen, why the family must leave after six years.

"They're just innocent children," she said. "The older one - he's 9 - says, 'Mommy, I have my friends here and my school.' They don't understand what in the world is going on."

Reporter Ronald J. Hansen contributed to this article.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/05/28/20100528arizona-immigration-law-schools.html#ixzz0pQfD1cQm


not here legally good riddance

Sec24Row7
05-30-2010, 11:15 AM
Sounds like it is working for AZ... good for them.

spursncowboys
05-30-2010, 12:11 PM
Reports are surfacing around the Valley that illegal-immigrant families with school-age children are fleeing Arizona because of a new immigration law.

Some school officials say enough parents and students have told them they plan to leave the state this summer

no actual movement, just talk of it?

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 12:20 PM
wow, that's fucking great.

hopefully Florida adopts this bill too.

smaller classrooms!!! thank god!

fucking illegal shit sticks draining school funding and ruining the education of legitimate American children by increasing class sizes and stretching school budgets on too many children.

I would be a happy Arizona parent right now.

boutons_deux
05-30-2010, 12:43 PM
"smaller classrooms!!! thank god!"

no, The Banksters' Great Depression has caused huge drops in (municipal) tax revenues, so schools will fire more teachers and increase class sizes (a strong indicator of poor academic results) no matter how many US citizen kids don't show up.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 12:56 PM
In other news: More illegal families coming into AZ through porous border...

ChuckD
05-30-2010, 12:56 PM
dp

ChuckD
05-30-2010, 12:57 PM
wow, that's fucking great.

hopefully Florida adopts this bill too.

smaller classrooms!!! thank god!

fucking illegal shit sticks draining school funding and ruining the education of legitimate American children by increasing class sizes and stretching school budgets on too many children.

I would be a happy Arizona parent right now.

Actually, since state funding drops with fewer students, teachers will lose jobs, and the classroom head count will stay the same. Same size classes, just fewer of them, and no one to blame it on now!

Good luck with your $50 car wash and $100 lawn mowing, AZ. Higher prices all around! Whoopee!

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 12:59 PM
Actually, since the funding drops with fewer students, teachers will lose jobs, and the classroom head count will stay the same.

Good luck with your $50 car wash and $100 lawn mowing, AZ. Higher prices all around! Whoopee!

Thank god

now we can go back to giving local kids jobs and needy AMERICANS those jobs.

remember the time when a kid could cut the neighborhoods yard to make extra money to buy a bike?

before the adult illegal mexicans came and would do it for 1 dollar?

yeah... good times.

Americans need to take their country back.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 01:01 PM
remember the time when a kid could cut the neighborhoods yard to make extra money to buy a bike?

before the adult illegal mexicans came and would do it for 1 dollar?

Why do you hate capitalism?
Why do you hate America?

:rolleyes

ChuckD
05-30-2010, 01:08 PM
Thank god

now we can go back to giving local kids jobs and needy AMERICANS those jobs.

remember the time when a kid could cut the neighborhoods yard to make extra money to buy a bike?

before the adult illegal mexicans came and would do it for 1 dollar?

yeah... good times.

Americans need to take their country back.

:lmao @ peeling a kid away from SOCALM or HALO to cut yards.

Oh, and Social Security just got that much closer to collapse. You realize that when an illegal uses fake ID to get a job, that SSN account still gets credited the money, didn't you? SSN has known that shit for YEARS. That's money being paid in by a worker that will NEVER draw benefits. Pffft. That free money just went away.

boutons_deux
05-30-2010, 01:16 PM
Typical right-wingers. They love free markets and competition as always providing the best solution only when they're on the winning, preferably monopolistic/cartel-istic side, and subsized by tax breaks and subsidies, thank to taxpayers.

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 01:16 PM
Our schools need to have the power to check to see if the parents or guardians of these kids are legal. Pretty simple.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 01:17 PM
Our schools need to have the power to check to see if the parents or guardians of these kids are legal. Pretty simple.

So if the kid is a US citizen but the parent isn't, we should punish the kid for that?

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 01:29 PM
So if the kid is a US citizen but the parent isn't, we should punish the kid for that?

The jails are full of criminals that have kids. Do you want to release all of them too?

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 01:30 PM
So if the kid is a US citizen but the parent isn't, we should punish the kid for that?

Parents must be deported.

Kid can stay without his/her parents or go back with parents.

If born on american soil and kid chooses to go back with parents, kid can always come back to America as an american citizen when he/she is an adult.'


Without the strength and will to do what is required, nothing is ever solved.

Some children will suffer for it short-term, but once that short-term adjustment is over, future cases will have been drastically reduced/prevented.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 01:31 PM
:lmao @ peeling a kid away from SOCALM or HALO to cut yards.

Oh, and Social Security just got that much closer to collapse. You realize that when an illegal uses fake ID to get a job, that SSN account still gets credited the money, didn't you? SSN has known that shit for YEARS. That's money being paid in by a worker that will NEVER draw benefits. Pffft. That free money just went away.

Supporting ILLEGAL practices, breaking the law, because it may provide financial benefit.

Yup, sounds like a Republican idiot.

SSN is broken and needs to be overhauled and fixed. Depending on illegal money is not a solution.

fraga
05-30-2010, 01:33 PM
Fuckn Puerto Ricans...

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 01:58 PM
Libtards are pretty racist. They tend to discriminate against there own kind/ gene pool. They point out racial differences. Look at buttons. Always calling Obama the magic negro and how all blacks eat fried chicken and catfish. They promote racism. They don't want you to have free speech. Rand Paul clearly says he is for civil rights but he is coined as a racist by libtards because he thinks a business should let who they want in. Paul says they get no government cash, help but if they want to be racist let them be racist. He would not eat at a place where cubans were not allowed but if these dumbfucks want to, let them. Get these racist out in the open. The libtards don't think the minorities can live without them. Always wanting to give them money or government assitance. Letting them break the law and giving them excuses to why they can.

NFGIII
05-30-2010, 02:01 PM
So if the kid is a US citizen but the parent isn't, we should punish the kid for that?


Parents must be deported.

Kid can stay without his/her parents or go back with parents.

If born on american soil and kid chooses to go back with parents, kid can always come back to America as an american citizen when he/she is an adult.'


Without the strength and will to do what is required, nothing is ever solved.

Some children will suffer for it short-term, but once that short-term adjustment is over, future cases will have been drastically reduced/prevented.

I've stated this in other threads but I would love to have a constitutional convention that would strike jus solis from it. The reason for it being included originally was to increase the new nation's population and give it a better chance at survival. More people means a bigger army and navy. The point now is moot so get rid of it and noncitizens giving birth on American soil can't claim their children to be American citizens like they can now. And once that is repealed then you repeal the laws pertaining to that situation or at least address it and make some kind of effort to curtail this type of situation.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 02:01 PM
Some children will suffer for it short-term, but once that short-term adjustment is over, future cases will have been drastically reduced/prevented.

Silly. An immigration court has no basis to deport a US citizen (the kid), and good luck finding one that will split parents from their kids.

On top of that, you're ruining kids lives while still not addressing the main problem: The border is leaking like a sieve. Those parents will be back in a week or less.

The illusory thinking here is that deportation is a deterrent. It's no such thing when the border is still as porous.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 02:03 PM
The jails are full of criminals that have kids. Do you want to release all of them too?

Jail time is a deterrent. Deportation isn't.

Do thousands or more of inmates escape from jail every year?

ducks
05-30-2010, 02:15 PM
So if the kid is a US citizen but the parent isn't, we should punish the kid for that?

should the usa pay for all the kids in the world to go to school and educate them

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 02:16 PM
Jail time is a deterrent. Deportation isn't.

Do thousands or more of inmates escape from jail every year?

C'mon now,,,,continue whatever point you are trying to make.

ducks
05-30-2010, 02:17 PM
"smaller classrooms!!! thank god!"

no, The Banksters' Great Depression has caused huge drops in (municipal) tax revenues, so schools will fire more teachers and increase class sizes (a strong indicator of poor academic results) no matter how many US citizen kids don't show up.

no paying for the president to go to cal and raise money for the democrats
lose money

ducks
05-30-2010, 02:18 PM
having kids there that parents are not paying taxes does not help pay for the school teachers

that is why a flat tax is better

and =
and then the tax payers do no thave to pay for all the irs workers!

ChuckD
05-30-2010, 02:27 PM
having kids there that parents are not paying taxes does not help pay for the school teachers

that is why a flat tax is better

and =
and then the tax payers do no thave to pay for all the irs workers!

ducks, the illegals are renters. They pay the rent, and the owner pays the property taxes out of that rent, so, they pay for their kids schools and the teachers. It's no different from citizens who rent.

v2freak
05-30-2010, 04:07 PM
Nono and Jack both make great points. The welfare of an American child with illegal immigrant parents is something to consider but can't be the only thing. But deportation is not a permanent solution.

What's happening is comparable to a very large person getting liposuction. Now that the skin has expanded to house all that fat and the fat has been taken away, there is excess material left over and it's a real problem. Also from this article it appears people aren't being deported, they are leaving on their own accord. If that's what Arizona wants - to affect incentives - then, well, mission accomplished.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 04:09 PM
Two pronged effort

Secure border too, along with this.

scott
05-30-2010, 04:36 PM
If so many resources hadn't been diverted to illegal school children, ducks might know how to write.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:11 PM
should the usa pay for all the kids in the world to go to school and educate them

No, we should at least pay for American kids, regardless of what their parent's country of origin is.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:12 PM
C'mon now,,,,continue whatever point you are trying to make.

You know what my point is. Enforcement without actually getting serious about the border is meaningless and a waste of our tax money.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:13 PM
Two pronged effort

Secure border too, along with this.

I would say secure the border first, then once you know there's no leaks, you can start getting tough on enforcement. This is something I have no problem with.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:17 PM
having kids there that parents are not paying taxes does not help pay for the school teachers

Except that the vast majority of immigrants, illegal or otherwise, do pay taxes.
And the reason they do it is because if they ever get a chance to legalize their situation, they need to show at least 3 years worth of tax payments.
Heck, you don't need to prove citizenship to get a Tax ID, and most of the time that's the only valid id an illegal alien can get.

I'm actually pretty sure that the IRS will be the very first one having a significant drop in revenue if we every manage to control the immigration situation.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:19 PM
And BTW, to work 12 hours for $5/hour, I would be willing to bet that the American rather be on food stamps.

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 05:23 PM
You know what my point is. Enforcement without actually getting serious about the border is meaningless and a waste of our tax money.

Do it all. Arizona bill is a good step towards these law breakers. I like it because now you have dems/repugs actually talking about borders, schools, work, etc......... 15 million is a HUGE problem. We need to get rid of them too.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Do it all. Arizona bill is a good step towards these law breakers. I like it because now you have dems/repugs actually talking about borders, schools, work, etc......... 15 million is a HUGE problem. We need to get rid of them too.

Immigrations is always talked about. I would just like for once to do it right, not ass-backwards.

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 05:37 PM
Immigrations is always talked about. I would just like for once to do it right, not ass-backwards.

Arizona is a start.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 05:37 PM
And BTW, to work 12 hours for $5/hour, I would be willing to bet that the American rather be on food stamps.

That's a logical fallacy.

First of all, you cannot pay an American 5 dollars an hour. Federal and State minimum wage laws prevent that.

So companies will be forced to pay what they are supposed to pay, and adapt to survive.

Lastly, if your next point will be :

"Then they will have to raise prices!"

well, I can guarantee that another company will come along and offer lower prices to gain a competitive advantage.

It will introduce a new business model. This is how capitalism works. Adapt, adapt, adapt.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:40 PM
That's a logical fallacy.

First of all, you cannot pay an American 5 dollars an hour. Federal and State minimum wage laws prevent that.

So companies will be forced to pay what they are supposed to pay, and adapt to survive.

'Adapt to survive' meaning outsourcing or closing shop...

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:42 PM
It will introduce a new business model. This is how capitalism works. Adapt, adapt, adapt.

The new business model being to ask congress to create a temporary visa program to get cheaper labor... we've seen this picture before many, many times.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:43 PM
Arizona is a start.

Arizona is the end, and since we didn't start from the beginning, it's a waste.

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 05:45 PM
Arizona is the end, and since we didn't start fro the beginning, it's a waste.

It's the beginning.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 05:46 PM
'Adapt to survive' meaning outsourcing or closing shop...

Lol, Closing shop is a good thing. Another company will take it's place. There are THOUSANDS/MILLIONS of americans who would LOVE to take their place.

As for the rest, Multi-pronged effort.

The next step will be to take measures to prevent outsourcing.

In my opinion, outsourcing jobs but still selling the services in America is tantamount to economic treason. These companies are depriving American citizens of employment, and offering low-cost products that were made through slave labor in other countries. This in turn hurts AMERICAN businesses because they cannot compete with products via slave labor. It is despicable and sub-human behavior on the part of these businessmen, and should be treated as economic treason against the United States. It is a way to circumvent our laws and it hurts our economy.

So raise their import taxes to astronomical levels, or begin other measures to completely stop outsourcing.

If you want to serve American citizens, play by the rules.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 05:47 PM
The new business model being to ask congress to create a temporary visa program to get cheaper labor... we've seen this picture before many, many times.

Create a law stating that all Temporary Visa workers are entitled to the state and federal minimum wages of the USA.

Believe me, the workers will demand their money.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:48 PM
What you or I think is irrelevant. And I personally don't disagree with you.
But companies pay Washington to get what they want, so if they want to outsource or create artificial demand with a capped visa system in order to raise prices, they will get it. It's really naive to think otherwise.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:51 PM
Create a law stating that all Temporary Visa workers are entitled to the state and federal minimum wages of the USA.
Believe me, the workers will demand their money.

Then prices will rise, wether you like it or not.
There's no magic 8 ball here. If you have to give benefits, pay taxes on those wages, etc. then it will be passed to the consumer.
Like I said, after certain threshold, it's simply easier not to work and get by with foodstamps and state/federal aid.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 05:52 PM
What you or I think is irrelevant. And I personally don't disagree with you.
But companies pay Washington to get what they want, so if they want to outsource or create artificial demand with a capped visa system in order to raise prices, they will get it. It's really naive to think otherwise.

Yes, we know they get what they want. That's why we are here, this is why the country has been purchased a long time ago.

We are talking about fixing it

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 05:54 PM
Then prices will rise, wether you like it or not.
There's no magic 8 ball here. If you have to give benefits, pay taxes on those wages, etc. then it will be passed to the consumer.
Like I said, after certain threshold, it's simply easier not to work and get by with foodstamps and state/federal aid.


Lastly, if your next point will be :

"Then they will have to raise prices!"

well, I can guarantee that another company will come along and offer lower prices to gain a competitive advantage.

It will introduce a new business model. This is how capitalism works. Adapt, adapt, adapt.


Also,

do you look at the profits these companies are making?

Look at Wal-Mart, and many others. It's in the tens of billions.

They will be forced to curtail their profits by lowering their prices, or be taken down by another start-up company who DOES OFFER lower prices.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:56 PM
Yes, we know they get what they want. That's why we are here, this is why the country has been purchased a long time ago.

We are talking about fixing it

If you think the 'fix' has anything to do with attacking the oligarchy, then you'll get really disappointed, really quick.
Securing the border actually is something that works great both for the country and for the corps. It gives them an excuse to raise praises while still being able to nudge Washington to get full control of the cheap labor.
What is really surprising is that it hasn't happened yet.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:57 PM
Lastly, if your next point will be :

"Then they will have to raise prices!"

well, I can guarantee that another company will come along and offer lower prices to gain a competitive advantage.

It will introduce a new business model. This is how capitalism works. Adapt, adapt, adapt.


The new business model being to ask congress to create a temporary visa program to get cheaper labor... we've seen this picture before many, many times.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 05:59 PM
Also,

do you look at the profits these companies are making?

Look at Wal-Mart, and many others. It's in the tens of billions.

They will be forced to curtail their profits by lowering their prices, or be taken down by another start-up company who DOES OFFER lower prices.

Wal-Mart is the prime example of how being too big to fail allows you to wrestle anything you want from anybody, including Congress.
It's cheaper for a multi-billion company to pay off the political career of somebody that agrees with them than to change their business model.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 05:59 PM
If you think the 'fix' has anything to do with attacking the oligarchy, then you'll get really disappointed, really quick.
Securing the border actually is something that works great both for the country and for the corps. It gives them an excuse to raise praises while still being able to nudge Washington to get full control of the cheap labor.
What is really surprising is that it hasn't happened yet.

I'm with you on the border issue.

but attacking the Arizona law is the wrong thing to do, because what it has done is created a SPARK in america.

Things are going to get done now, as now Florida is thinking about supporting and adopting the Arizona law too.

Yeah, we should secure the border first. But how long have we been talking about it and NTOHING gets done?

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 06:02 PM
Wal-Mart is the prime example of how being too big to fail allows you to wrestle anything you want from anybody, including Congress.
It's cheaper for a multi-billion company to pay off the political career of somebody that agrees with them than to change their business model.

Now you're talking about our broken political system.

Yeah, that's another problem we have to fix.... :lol

ElNono
05-30-2010, 06:04 PM
Yeah, we should secure the border first. But how long have we been talking about it and NTOHING gets done?

Arizona doesn't need to wait for the federal government to secure their part of the border. And the money that will be spent on this bill would have been much better spent securing their part of the border.
I'm not really against the enforcement part of the law. I'm certainly against the provision that gives arbitrary authority to law enforcement to verify papers whenever they want. I think it's overreaching and potentially unconstitutional.
But I'm sure that will be tried on time.
I just don't think it's going to be effective without proper border security.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 06:04 PM
also, if you listen to Arizona lawmakers and citizens

the first thing out of their mouths is what??

"SECURE THE BORDER"

They keep saying that the Gov't won't secure the border, so this is what they had to do.

You could say they are the biggest supporters of border security.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 06:07 PM
I'm a legal resident and I've been asking for that forever. It's logical just from a security standpoint alone, besides the immigration issue.

Obviously, there's either a lack of interest, or it's genuinely difficult to do.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 06:08 PM
I'm certainly against the provision that gives arbitrary authority to law enforcement to verify papers whenever they want. I think it's overreaching and potentially unconstitutional.


A policeman can stop you whenever they want when you are driving a vehicle.

They verify your eligibility to operate a vehicle EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Did you complain when they asked you for your drivers license?

About 2 years ago, I was stopped by a policeman who said my vehicle fit the description of a stolen car. I cooperated and the whole thing lasted less than 5 minutes and he was nice to me and everything.

Did I cry and bitch that he thought my car was a stolen car?


Jesus. Being in this country illegally is a crime. and if a policeman has suspicion that you have broken into this country illegaly, he should have every right to check.

How many times have you seen a bunch of illegalls standing around Home Depot or places and you just KNOW some/all of them are illegal?

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 06:15 PM
also, did you know

1) Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico. You must be of good character and have no criminal records; and

2) Foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics

LOL!!!!!!!! USA is a doormat, isn't it? Illegal aliens come here on AMERICAN SOIL, and protest OUR LAWS AND POLITICIANS! LOL! Waving MEXICAN FLAGS!!!!! oh man

3) foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

4) foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

5) those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 06:17 PM
A policeman can stop you whenever they want when you are driving a vehicle.

They verify your eligibility to operate a vehicle EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Did you complain when they asked you for your drivers license?

About 2 years ago, I was stopped by a policeman who said my vehicle fit the description of a stolen car. I cooperated and the whole thing lasted less than 5 minutes and he was nice to me and everything.

Did I cry and bitch that he thought my car was a stolen car?


Jesus. Being in this country illegally is a crime. and if a policeman has suspicion that you have broken into this country illegaly, he should have every right to check.

How many times have you seen a bunch of illegalls standing around Home Depot or places and you just KNOW some/all of them are illegal?

I've been pulled over for the samething and let go in a few minutes. I didn't cry that my car looked like the stolen one. I hope they do the same if my wheels get stolen.

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 06:18 PM
also, did you know

1) Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico. You must be of good character and have no criminal records; and

2) Foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics

LOL!!!!!!!! USA is a doormat, isn't it? Illegal aliens come here on AMERICAN SOIL, and protest OUR LAWS AND POLITICIANS! LOL! Waving MEXICAN FLAGS!!!!! oh man

3) foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

4) foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

5) those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.


And Obama allowed that prick to speak before our congress on how the Arizona bill is a joke. Silly, silly libs.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 06:20 PM
A policeman can stop you whenever you want when you are driving a vehicle.

They verify your eligibility to operate a vehicle EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Did you complain when they asked you for your drivers license?

About 2 years ago, I was stopped by a policeman who said my vehicle fit the description of a stolen car. I cooperated and the whole thing lasted less than 5 minutes and he was nice to me and everything.

Did I cry and bitch that he thought my car was a stolen car?

Jesus. Being in this country illegally is a crime. and if a policeman has suspicion that you have broken into this country illegaly, he should have every right to check.

How many times have you seen a bunch of illegalls standing around Home Depot or places and you just KNOW some/all of them are illegal?

Actually, that's not how it works at all. A police officer needs to have probable cause to stop you. A police officer does NOT have the authority to stop you just to verify your driving papers.
The cop you mention had a reasonable cause to stop you because your car was similar to a recently stolen car.
If people would be educated enough about what their rights are, then they would stop thinking erroneously like you just did.

Second of all, an illegal immigrant is not a criminal. It's entirely a civil matter, ruled by civil law, not criminal law. Immigration cases are judged in front of an administrative judge of the BCIS, not a criminal judge.
And illegal alien is no different than somebody getting a parking ticket, in that it's a civil offense for breaking a civil law. You don't call those criminals, do you?
The ONLY reference I see in the criminal code is the actual act of entering the country illegally (US Code, Title 8, Section 1325). You could also classify illegal aliens that use false social security numbers as committing identity theft, which is a felony.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 06:20 PM
maybe we should fucking copy Mexico's immigration laws?

They are one of the strictest, toughest in the entire western hemisphere.

What a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 06:22 PM
also, did you know

1) Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico. You must be of good character and have no criminal records; and

2) Foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics

LOL!!!!!!!! USA is a doormat, isn't it? Illegal aliens come here on AMERICAN SOIL, and protest OUR LAWS AND POLITICIANS! LOL! Waving MEXICAN FLAGS!!!!! oh man

3) foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

4) foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

5) those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

That's irrelevant. We're discussing American immigration, and I really have no problem making it tougher. Mexicans can do whatever they want with their country.

ElNono
05-30-2010, 06:23 PM
maybe we should fucking copy Mexico's immigration laws?

They are one of the strictest, toughest in the entire western hemisphere.

What a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

Maybe. I wouldn't want to copy Mexico's justice system though.

MiamiHeat
05-30-2010, 06:23 PM
And Obama allowed that prick to speak before our congress on how the Arizona bill is a joke. Silly, silly libs.

It was fucking ridiculous. Obama is a fucking asshole. He is so intent on sucking cock so that everyone likes him....

jack, this is more of Mexico's immigration laws :

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony.

"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

jack sommerset
05-30-2010, 06:28 PM
Obama hates cops and whites. The dude had no clue what happened between that cop and professor but he nailed the white dude/cop.

ducks
05-30-2010, 07:00 PM
when I go out of the usa I have to carry my passport with me everywhere I go
why should they not carry proof they are usa citizen

is it racism that I in the usa have to carry my drivers licence with me all the time when I am driving

Mikesatx
05-30-2010, 11:25 PM
This isn't hard. Everyone that gets pulled over is asked for license and insurance. Everyone that travels by plane is asked for ID and put through a metal detector and "randomly" searched. What is one more check? More BS politics. One side painting the other as racist.

ChuckD
05-30-2010, 11:35 PM
:lmao Those Mexican laws make as much sense as if the Third Reich had a law that made it a criminal offense to run into a crematorium. Who'd want to? :lol

BRHornet45
05-31-2010, 12:24 AM
good ... get the fuck out

ChumpDumper
05-31-2010, 04:27 AM
This isn't hard. Everyone that gets pulled over is asked for license and insurance. Everyone that travels by plane is asked for ID and put through a metal detector and "randomly" searched. What is one more check? More BS politics. One side painting the other as racist.One more check in what situation?

Wild Cobra
06-01-2010, 11:59 AM
I don't know why so many people are against this new law. The authorities know most the time when they make a stop of an illegal. The problem is they can simple do nothing about it.

Anyone who has been involved in good decision making knows that you tackle your biggest problems. The southern border and illegal Mei-can immigrants are the largest problem, therefor, good problem solving techniques dictate this be dealt with first.

We all have to stop listening to and using a particular stupid argument. The majority of the illegal immigrants are Mexican. Any attempt to reduce or stop illegal immigration is now said to be racists. Think about it. How many situations in life will never be resolved if you allow such stupid ideas to sway a decision? I'm sure some people who are racists are using this argument to get their way. However, the majority of us who want to see border control and immigration control are not.