Israel attacks one of 6 ships bringing humanitarian aid to gaza

[sook]

15 shot for bringing cement to gaza .


This is fucking sad, killing humanitarians bringing aid is low even for such brutal regime. Fucking pigs. This is the thing that pisses me off about them. Give these poor helpless motherfuckers guns and weapons and they abuse them to this extent. Waiting for self defense story to be propogated by the Israeli gallery.




Reports: Israeli ships attack aid flotilla

HAIFA, Israel – Israeli warships attacked at least one of six ships carrying pro-Palestinian activists and aid for the blockaded Gaza Strip, killing at least two and wounding an unknown number of people on board, an Arabic satellite news channel and a Turkish TV network reported early Monday.

The Israeli military spokesman's office denied that its forces attacked the boats but said they would enforce the decision to keep them away from Gaza.

However, other security officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to report on the military operation, confirmed that activists were wounded, but did not give numbers.

They said the troops faced resistance and that soldiers were under orders only to use fire if their lives were in danger.

The al-Jazeera satellite channel reported by telephone from the Turkish ship leading the flotilla that Israeli navy forces fired at the ship and boarded it, wounding the captain. The Turkish NTV network also reported an Israeli takeover with gunfire, and that at least two people were killed.

The al-Jazeera broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"

A Turkish website showed video of pandemonium on board one of the ships, with activists in orange life jackets running around as some tried to help an activist apparently unconscious on the deck. The site also showed video of an Israeli helicopter flying overhead and Israeli warships nearby.

The reports came just after daybreak, with the flotilla still well away from the Gaza shore. Israel had declared it would not allow the ships to reach Gaza.

Al-Jazeera footage showed soldiers descending from helicopters on ropes onto a ship and two men, apparently wounded, being carried away.

A violent takeover would deal yet another blow to Israel's international standing, already tarnished by war crimes accusations in Gaza and its three-year-old blockade of the impoverished Palestinian territory.

Greek activists said people on board one of the ships in the flotilla told them that Israeli forces boarded two other boats — one Greek, another Turkish — from helicopters and inflatable speedboats and took them over.

They said the attack took place in international waters 80 miles (128 kilometers) from the Gaza coast and that the boat had refused to obey the Israeli navy's orders to halt.

Shortly after, activists on board the ship told them that Israeli commandos had boarded the Greek boat and that the last words they heard before the connection was cut were, "They're boarding the ship using hooks, we're under arrest."

The head of the Gaza Hamas government, Ismail Haniyeh, condemned the "brutal" Israeli attack.

"We call on the Secretary-General of the U.N., Ban Ki-moon, to shoulder his responsibilities to protect the safety of the solidarity groups who were on board these ships and to secure their way to Gaza," Haniyeh told The Associated Press.

Turkish television stations said police blocked dozens of stone-throwing protesters who tried to storm the Israeli consulate in Istanbul. The CNN-Turk and NTV televisions showed dozens of angry protesters scuffling with Turkish police and shouting, "Damn Israel."

On Sunday, Huwaida Arraf, one of the organizers, said the six-ship flotilla began the journey from international waters off the coast of Cyprus on Sunday afternoon after two days of delays. She said they expected to reach Gaza, about 250 miles (400 kilometers) away, on Monday afternoon, and that two more ships would follow in "a second wave."

The flotilla was "fully prepared for the different scenarios" that might arise, and organizers were hopeful that Israeli authorities would "do what's right" and not stop the convoy, she said.

"We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation or threats of violence against us," she said. "They are going to have to forcefully stop us."

After nightfall Sunday, three Israeli navy missile boats left their base in Haifa, steaming out to sea to confront the activists' ships.

Two hours later, Israel Radio broadcast a recording of one of the missile boats warning the flotilla not to approach Gaza.

"If you ignore this order and enter the blockaded area, the Israeli navy will be forced to take all the necessary measures in order to enforce this blockade," the radio message continued.

Al-Jazeera also reported that the ships changed course to try to avoid a nighttime confrontation, preferring a daylight showdown for better publicity.

The flotilla, which includes three cargo ships and three passenger ships, is trying to draw attention to Israel's blockade of Gaza. The boats are carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials. The activists said they also were carrying hundreds of electric-powered wheelchairs, prefabricated homes and water purifiers.

Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said that after a security check, permitted humanitarian aid confiscated from the boats will be transferred to Gaza through authorized channels. However, Israel would not transfer items it has banned from Gaza under its blockade rules. Palmor said that for example, cement would be allowed only if it is tied to a specific project.

This is the ninth time that the Free Gaza movement has tried to ship in humanitarian aid to Gaza since August 2008.

Israel has let ships through five times, but has blocked them from entering Gaza waters since a three-week military offensive against Gaza's Hamas rulers in January 2009. The flotilla bound for Gaza is the largest to date.

Some 700 pro-Palestinian activists are on the boats, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators and an elderly Holocaust survivor.

The mission has experienced repeated delays, both due to mechanical problems and a decision by Cyprus to bar any boat from sailing from its shore to Gaza. The ban forced a group of European lawmakers to depart from the breakaway Turkish Cypriot northern part of the island late Saturday.

Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade on Gaza after Hamas militants violently seized control of the seaside territory in June 2007.

Israel says the measures are needed to prevent Hamas, which has fired thousands of rockets at Israel, from building up its arsenal. But U.N. officials and international aid groups say the blockade has been counterproductive, failing to weaken the Islamic militant group while devastating the local economy.

In particular, the ban on building materials has prevented Gazans from repairing thousands of homes that were damaged or destroyed in an Israeli military offensive, meant to stop Hamas rocket attacks, early last year.

Israel rejects claims of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, saying it allows more than enough food and medicine into the territory. The Israelis also point to the bustling smuggling industry along Gaza's southern border with Egypt, which has managed to bring consumer goods, gasoline and livestock into the seaside strip.

[sook]

link: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/hamas-flotilla-shows-whole-world-opposes-gaza-siege-1.292789

its a bit old so 2 were confirmed dead at the time

[sook]

Gee I wonder why they need supplies?

I hate how sheep can defend their stupid blockade of Gaza last year.

Sorry, but people like DOK can't even defend this.



The 2-year old blockade of the Gaza strip continued after the end of the war, although Israel allowed in limited quantities of medical humanitarian aid.

The Red Cross has released a report that argues that Israel's continued blockade is making it impossible for Gaza to recover from the war. The Red Cross says that the blockade is "strangling" the Gazan economy and also notes that the blockade has caused a shortage of basic medicines and equipment such as painkillers and x-ray film.[82]

....

(Before blockade)

A study carried out by Johns Hopkins University (U.S.) and Al-Quds University (in Abu Dis) for CARE International in late 2002 revealed very high levels of dietary deficiency among the Palestinian population. The study found that 17.5% of children aged 6–59 months suffered from chronic malnutrition. 53% of women of reproductive age and 44% of children were found to be anemic. In the aftermath of the Israeli withdrawal of August and September 2005, the health care system in Gaza continues to face severe challenges.[94] After the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip the health conditions in Gaza Strip faces new challenges. World Health Organization (WHO) expressed its concerns about the consequences of the Palestinian internal political fragmentation; the socioeconomic decline; military actions; and the physical, psychological and economic isolation on the health of the population in Gaza.[95]

Gazans who desire medical care in Israeli hospitals must apply for a medical visa permit. In 2007, State of Israel granted 7,176 permits and denied 1,627.[96]

....

(After blockade)

Following the war, Gaza has witnessed increasing epidemics of health problems. At the Al Shifa hospital a constant increase in the percentage of children born with birth defects of about 60% was witnessed when the period of July to September 2008 was compared to the same period in 2009.[97][98] Local doctors point the finger at radioactive munition and white phosphorus used by Israel during the Gaza war. Dr. Mohammed Abu Shaban, director of the Blood Tumors Department in Al-Rantisy Hospital in Gaza has witnessed an increase in the number of cases of blood cancer. In March 2010 the department had seen 55 cases so far for that year, compared to the 20 to 25 cases normally seen in an entire year.[99]


On top of this that fucking bastard Lieberman denies a humanitarian crisis, god some people are just fucking stone hearted out there.

[Shastafarian]

They were entering a blockaded area and were warned to go to Ashdod. Do you think the IDF just shot randomly and tried to kill people or do you think as they tried to board, they met resistance? Israel has said they'll take all the non-banned goods to Gaza. If they do, what will you say?

[ChumpDumper]

They probably had crayons on board.

[temujin]

They were entering a blockaded area and were warned to go to Ashdod. Do you think the IDF just shot randomly and tried to kill people or do you think as they tried to board, they met resistance? Israel has said they'll take all the non-banned goods to Gaza. If they do, what will you say?

You forgot to mention the word "democracy" (whatever that means).
You are supposed to type it in every pro-israeli propaganda message, in order to get a refund.
"Western civilization" is also well percieved, but I don't think they add a bonus for that.

[Stringer_Bell]

Turkey pissed that they tried to cross a blockade and got some of their people killed? Turkey is dumb if they didn't realize there are other ways to get supplies to Gaza. You'd think for all the talk of getting into the EU, they wouldn't do stupid shit but there you go.

I'm not saying Israel is 100 correct, but people don't pet lions cuz they look like pussy cats. It's a fucking lion!

[Cry Havoc]

Ridiculous.

I have long been a defender of Israel, but this attack is a monstrous war crime that the soldiers and those who gave them their orders should have to pay for.

It's wrong to board a boat full of unarmed people and summarily begin shooting them, unless they show violent intent to harm. I doubt that's the case at all here.

[lefty]

Ridiculous.

I have long been a defender of Israel, but this attack is a monstrous war crime that the soldiers and those who gave them their orders should have to pay for.

It's wrong to board a boat full of unarmed people and summarily begin shooting them, unless they show violent intent to harm. I doubt that's the case at all here.
Why?

[Cry Havoc]

Why?

I don't feel like rehashing the entire argument. There was a thread about this a year or two ago that was tens of pages long in this forum that I posted several times to.

To make my position clearer, I defend a lot of actions that both sides take, and criticize a fair share as well.

I think they're unfortunately in a no-win situation thrust upon them by a group of nations that had no idea what it was doing when they meddled in the Middle East.

It's an extremely unfortunate situation without much of a real answer.

[lefty]

I don't feel like rehashing the entire argument. There was a thread about this a year or two ago that was tens of pages long in this forum that I posted several times to.

To make my position clearer, I defend a lot of actions that both sides take, and criticize a fair share as well.

I think they're unfortunately in a no-win situation thrust upon them by a group of nations that had no idea what it was doing when they meddled in the Middle East.

It's an extremely unfortunate situation without much of a real answer.
This.

[balli]

Fuck Israel. I hope Iran wipes them off the map one day. This tiny little patch of greedy, entitled fucks is causing half if not more of the world's international tension/disputes. Fuck 'em.

[jack sommerset]

Fuck Israel. I hope Iran wipes them off the map one day. This tiny little patch of greedy, entitled fucks is causing half if not more of the world's international tension/disputes. Fuck 'em.

You want some cheese with that whine?

[balli]

You want some cheese with that whine?

Shouldn't you be at a rest stop gloryhole right now you faggot bitch?

[Shastafarian]

You forgot to mention the word "democracy" (whatever that means).
You are supposed to type it in every pro-israeli propaganda message, in order to get a refund.
"Western civilization" is also well percieved, but I don't think they add a bonus for that.

Well done not responding to a single point in my post. :tu

[21_Blessings]

Fuck Israel. I hope Iran wipes them off the map one day. This tiny little patch of greedy, entitled fucks is causing half if not more of the world's international tension/disputes. Fuck 'em.

And Israel is empowered by the US.

Not sure how Iran running shit would be any better though.

[Shastafarian]

"Attention! You are entering a blockaded area. Follow us to Ashdod or we will be forced to board your ships!"

"No! We don't wanna!"

"Um...well, since you put it that way, go right ahead!"

"Thanks! By the way, do you guys have any extra knives? They're for Arts and Crafts for the kids."

"Yeah we do! It's funny cuz we have too many knives! Take all you can. Do you guys know how to get to Gaza?"

[jack sommerset]

JERUSALEM – Israeli police say 16 pro-Palestinian activists from a Gaza-bound flotilla have been sent to jail after a deadly confrontation at sea. Dozens of other activists are to be deported.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld says the activists were taken ashore and were jailed in the southern desert town of Beersheba after refusing to identify themselves.

Israeli naval commandos stopped the six-ship flotilla early Monday, setting off a fierce clash that killed nine activists.

Israel has said it will deport the roughly 700 activists in the flotilla. But those who refuse to cooperate will be jailed. About 80 activists have been brought to shore so far.

[temujin]

"Attention! You are entering a blockaded area. Follow us to Ashdod or we will be forced to board your ships!"

"No! We don't wanna!"

"Um...well, since you put it that way, go right ahead!"

"Thanks! By the way, do you guys have any extra knives? They're for Arts and Crafts for the kids."

"Yeah we do! It's funny cuz we have too many knives! Take all you can. Do you guys know how to get to Gaza?"

No "democracy", no money.
Get it right!!!

How about something like:
"The people of Israel is the only democracy in the region.
They command their army democratically.
Their weapons are democracy-driven and can't do any harm.
The people in Gaza are just a bunch of terrorists
that elected, sorry, NOMINATED a terrorist organization to represent them.

At $20 per word, time 2X per "terrorist(s),
that's democracy 3X ($60) plus terrorist 2X.

A total of $240 bucks, please.

I forgot, you probably want to keep $239.

[Shastafarian]

No "democracy", no money.
Get it right!!!

How about something like:
"The people of Israel is the only democracy in the region.
They command their army democratically.
Their weapons are democracy-driven and can't do any harm.
The people in Gaza are just a bunch of terrorists
that elected, sorry, NOMINATED a terrorist organization to represent them.

At $20 per word, time 2X per "terrorist(s),
that's democracy 3X ($60) plus terrorist 2X.

A total of $240 bucks, please.

I forgot, you probably want to keep $239.
You're doing really well bringing people around :toast

[temujin]

JERUSALEM – Israeli police say 16 pro-Palestinian activists from a Gaza-bound flotilla have been sent to jail after a deadly confrontation at sea. Dozens of other activists are to be deported.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld says the activists were taken ashore and were jailed in the southern desert town of Beersheba after refusing to identify themselves.

Israeli naval commandos stopped the six-ship flotilla early Monday, setting off a fierce clash that killed nine activists.

Israel has said it will deport the roughly 700 activists in the flotilla. But those who refuse to cooperate will be jailed. About 80 activists have been brought to shore so far.

Let's look at the bright side of the story.
Israel has NOT declared war to the "activists-terrorists" countries of origin.

Not yet.

[Shastafarian]

I wonder if temujin has even read the articles about this.

[temujin]

You're doing really well bringing people around :toast


I admit your folks are getting your task almost impossible.

[Shastafarian]

I admit your folks are getting your task almost impossible.

Learn english + debate and then we can talk, k champ?

[temujin]

I wonder if temujin has even read the articles about this.

I wonder whether you can make the case of OTHER ships coming to the same shores some 65 years ago.

[temujin]

Learn english + debate and then we can talk, k champ?

You give orders to palestinians.
Not me.

[Shastafarian]

I wonder whether you can make the case of OTHER ships coming to the same shores some 65 years ago.And which ships would those be?


You give orders to palestinians.
Not me.
:lol I give orders to Palestinians?

Why are you afraid to debate the issues in this thread?

[spursncowboys]

Ridiculous.

I have long been a defender of Israel, but this attack is a monstrous war crime that the soldiers and those who gave them their orders should have to pay for.

It's wrong to board a boat full of unarmed people and summarily begin shooting them, unless they show violent intent to harm. I doubt that's the case at all here.
How else should they keep a lawful barracade?

[spursncowboys]

I don't feel like rehashing the entire argument. There was a thread about this a year or two ago that was tens of pages long in this forum that I posted several times to.

To make my position clearer, I defend a lot of actions that both sides take, and criticize a fair share as well.

I think they're unfortunately in a no-win situation thrust upon them by a group of nations that had no idea what it was doing when they meddled in the Middle East.

It's an extremely unfortunate situation without much of a real answer.

There is always an answer. It's probably not pc though. I think the problem came in the quick retreat of Brittan with their territory and not in the actual original colonization.

[spursncowboys]

balli=mel gibson

[temujin]

And which ships would those be?


That's exactly my point.

If you don't know the answer to that question, if you can't even figure out the similarities, you are nothing but propapanga.

There is absolutely nothing to learn from you, and I have no interest, time nor will to "debate" with propagandas.

[EmptyMan]

Personally I couldn't give two shits which side wins but they just need to go all out and get it over with.

[Shastafarian]

That's exactly my point.

If you don't know the answer to that question, if you can't even figure out the similarities, you are nothing but propapanga.

There is absolutely nothing to learn from you, and I have no interest, time nor will to "debate" with propagandas.

Are you comparing Holocaust survivors to aid workers trying to pass a blockade?

[Shastafarian]

Propaganda!

lol He comes in and posts nonsense but doesn't have time to actually debate.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I'm not really stupid enough to think these dumbass activists weren't asking for trouble in order to get attention, but i certainly have no trust in the Israeli government. This whole "Jewish people can do no wrong" bullshit attitude the world has adopted out of guilt has gone long enough. The world needs to start taking a very close look at how Israel conducts itself. Hamas ain't the only religious nutjob organization in that conflict IMO.

[spursncowboys]

I'm not really stupid enough to think these dumbass activists weren't asking for trouble in order to get attention, but i certainly have no trust in the Israeli government. This whole "Jewish people can do no wrong" bullshit attitude the world has adopted out of guilt has gone long enough. The world needs to start taking a very close look at how Israel conducts itself. Hamas ain't the only religious nutjob organization in that conflict IMO.
aside from the us, what other un nation has come to the aid of israel?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

aside from the us, what other un nation has come to the aid of israel?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by aid. Military? Public support?

I think its fair to say the US has done a remarkable job of arming Israel to the teeth, and for quite a few decades now, it hasn't been Israel who's been in need of military aid in that part of the world.

As for public support, I can't think of one other country that gets away with more unscrutinized questionable acts than Israel. Its as if all the powers of the world are content with taking Israel's word for everything (mainly because the US does so).

Now, I sympathize with Israel's situation, but that shouldn't be an excuse to do whatever the fuck they want however the fuck they want it.

[Shastafarian]

I'm curious what people think Israel should have done. Let them go by? Dismantle the blockade because some people say they're bringing in supplies that won't harm Israeli citizens? What should Israel have done?

[spursncowboys]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by aid. Military? Public support?

I think its fair to say the US has done a remarkable job of arming Israel to the teeth, and for quite a few decades now, it hasn't been Israel who's been in need of military aid in that part of the world.

As for public support, I can't think of one other country that gets away with more unscrutinized questionable acts than Israel. Its as if all the powers of the world are content with taking Israel's word for everything (mainly because the US does so).

Now, I sympathize with Israel's situation, but that shouldn't be an excuse to do whatever the fuck they want however the fuck they want it.
How many days out of the year are their citizens attacked? How many of israel's neighbors "recognize" israel's right to exist? How many neighbors of theirs openly talk of destroying israel? It's not like they are in some kind of fairy tale war. they have to draft their citizens and arm themselves to survive.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

How many days out of the year are their citizens attacked? How many of israel's neighbors "recognize" israel's right to exist? How many neighbors of theirs openly talk of destroying israel? It's not like they are in some kind of fairy tale war. they have to draft their citizens and arm themselves to survive.

How exactly does this excuse them from accountability for their actions? Yeah, they have it rough. That doesn't mean they can do whatever they want. Its that kind of mentality that I disagree with.

"Poor Israel, they've had it rough. Let's not add insult to injury by actually asking questions and demand they be accountable for their actions"

Their situation buys them wide spread support, which I agree with. It does NOT buy them immunity.

[ElNono]

I'm curious what people think Israel should have done. Let them go by? Dismantle the blockade because some people say they're bringing in supplies that won't harm Israeli citizens? What should Israel have done?

Wait until the boats were in Israeli waters, at the very least?

[Ghazi]

Fuck Israel. I hope Iran wipes them off the map one day. This tiny little patch of greedy, entitled fucks is causing half if not more of the world's international tension/disputes. Fuck 'em.

Why would Iran do that?

We are not a warmongering, bloodthirsty people like the Zionists.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Why would Iran do that?

We are not a warmongering, bloodthirsty people like the Zionists.

:lol

Your government is

[Shastafarian]

Wait until the boats were in Israeli waters, at the very least?

What does that accomplish?

Here's video released by Israel of the "peaceful" aid-workers

bU12KW-XyZE&feature=player_embedded#!


A total of seven soldiers were wounded - four soldiers were moderately wounded, of which two were initially in critical condition, as well as an additional three soldiers who were lightly wounded. Among the violent activists, there were nine casualties as a result of the soldiers defending themselves.

[ElNono]

What does that accomplish?

It gives you an actual valid justification for boarding the ships, civilian or not?

[Shastafarian]

It gives you an actual valid justification for boarding the ships, civilian or not?

I'm not following. They knew the ship was attempting to or going to attempt to break the blockade.

[Ghazi]

Israel- Where always having an excuse for killing innocent people happens.

[temujin]

Wait until the boats were in Israeli waters, at the very least?

The whole Mediterranean is Israeli's water, for that matter.
When it comes to "security measures" there is no such a thing as foreign country.
They proved it over and over again, sending killers around the globe to murder "terrorists".
In my country, that meant a couple of very moderate, intelligent palestinians, that had nothing to do with revolt or weapons.
Before Hamas.

Any country within 3000 miles can be bombed anytime, should the Isrealis decide so.
Within 3 hours.
Even with nuclear weapons.

There is no other country that is even remotely, vaguely as ready to attack as Israel, anytime.

Yet, they are still able to dispatch themselves as the poor little lamb surrounded by powerful wolves.

[Shastafarian]

Did you watch the video?

[Shastafarian]

The whole Mediterranean is Israeli's water, for that matter.
When it comes to "security measures" there is no such a thing as foreign country.
They proved it over and over again, sending killers around the globe to murder "terrorists".
In my country, that meant a couple of very moderate, intelligent palestinians, that had nothing to do with revolt or weapons.
Before Hamas.

Any country within 3000 miles can be bombed anytime, should the Isrealis decide so.
Within 3 hours.
Even with nuclear weapons.

There is no other country that is even remotely, vaguely as ready to attack as Israel, anytime.

Yet, they are still able to dispatch themselves as the poor little lamb surrounded by powerful wolves.
lol

Weren't you railing against propaganda? That's all you are.

[ElNono]

I'm not following. They knew the ship was attempting to or going to attempt to break the blockade.

But it didn't. It was in international waters, carrying a white civilian flag.
My understanding is that attacking a civilian ship in international waters is a violation of international laws. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[MiamiHeat]

They probably had crayons on board.

You think all humanitarian aid carries crayons exclusively?

[Ghazi]

Shastafarian- Where defending terrorist countries that employ apartheid no matter what, happens.

[ElNono]

Did you watch the video?

BTW, I did see the video. What did you expect civilians to do while being attacked by commandos? Sit down and be quiet?

[Ghazi]

They can kill all the activists, students, and children they want. But they're smart too... they know that if they attack Iran they'd get sent back to the stone age.
nmG3is-SHoE&feature=related

[Shastafarian]

But it didn't. It was in international waters, carrying a white civilian flag.
My understanding is that attacking a civilian ship in international waters is a violation of international laws. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure what the laws are concerning boarding vessels believed to have weapons. According to Israel, they boarded and were met with violent resistance.

[Shastafarian]

Shastafarian- Where defending terrorist countries that employ apartheid no matter what, happens.

Ghazi - Where supporting holocaust deniers happens

[Shastafarian]

BTW, I did see the video. What did you expect civilians to do while being attacked by commandos? Sit down and be quiet?

They weren't being attacked. They were being boarded because they refused to adhere to what Israel says is a legal blockade.


lol at the goalpost moving. They were ONLY taking supplies to Gaza but as soon as Israelis board, KILL THEM! Fight the commandos instead of giving in to superior firepower! Either they're the dumbest fucking people alive or they were planning on starting shit.

[Ghazi]

Ghazi - Where supporting holocaust deniers happens

Id rather deny the Holocaust than kill activists, tbh.

[ElNono]

I'm not sure what the laws are concerning boarding vessels believed to have weapons. According to Israel, they boarded and were met with violent resistance.

Funny, because the only weapons found were Israeli. According to Turkey, passengers were X-Ray before boarding the ships.
It's obvious you're going to be met with violent or otherwise resistance when you ATTACK somebody else.

Don't get me wrong. I fully understand these people were provoking Israel. What I question is the wisdom of initiating the attack in international waters as opposed to let them break the law first by getting into Israeli waters.

[Shastafarian]

Id rather deny the Holocaust than kill activists, tbh.

I'd rather kill people who shot at me than be from a 3rd world country

[ElNono]

They weren't being attacked

What do you call being boarded by armed commandos from choppers?
Stopping by to say hi?

[Ghazi]

Israel can do no wrong

:tu

[temujin]

You think all humanitarian aid carries crayons exclusively?

Henning Mankell,
great Swedish writer,
creator of the Wallander saga,
potential Nobel prize winner for Literature ("The deep heart"),
is one of the dreadful activists on board.

By reading his books, I never relized he is a TERRORIST!

[Shastafarian]

Funny, because the only weapons found were Israeli. According to Turkey, passengers were X-Ray before boarding the ships.
It's obvious you're going to be met with violent or otherwise resistance when you ATTACK somebody else.I assume you're talking about the pistols that were stolen from commandos. What about the people swarming a commando who was repelling down to the boat? I'm not up on combat tactics but it looked like he was mobbed without doing anything. You keep saying the boat was attacked. If the commandos were violent before the "activists" I didn't see it.


Don't get me wrong. I fully understand these people were provoking Israel. What I question is the wisdom of initiating the attack in international waters as opposed to let them break the law first by getting into Israeli waters.
I honestly don't know why they did it in international waters. But saying you understand it, but you would have preferred they waited until they broke Israeli laws, that's just silly. The activists were violent no matter where they were stopped.

[Ghazi]

Why are you so defensive Shasta. If Israel is so clearly in the right, as they are on every issue, then there's no need for you to be defensive since it should be so obvious.

lol guilty conscience

[Shastafarian]

What do you call being boarded by armed commandos from choppers?
Stopping by to say hi?

Boarding the safest way possible. How else should they have boarded? Or do you think they should've just let the boats pass without inspecting?

[Shastafarian]

I likes my women covered and hairy

[temujin]

Funny, because the only weapons found were Israeli. According to Turkey, passengers were X-Ray before boarding the ships.
It's obvious you're going to be met with violent or otherwise resistance when you ATTACK somebody else.

Don't get me wrong. I fully understand these people were provoking Israel. What I question is the wisdom of initiating the attack in international waters as opposed to let them break the law first by getting into Israeli waters.

They will find the weapons, now that the ships are available.

They will look VERY carefully and find something.

These folks are smarter than Bush not finding the WMD.

[Shastafarian]

Why are you so defensive Shasta. If Israel is so clearly in the right, as they are on every issue, then there's no need for you to be defensive since it should be so obvious.Why are you replying only with non-sequiturs? Oh cuz you're an troll. I forgot!


lol guilty conscience
lol no conscience

[Shastafarian]

They will find the weapons, now that the ships are available.

They will look VERY carefully and find something.

These folks are smarter than Bush not finding the WMD.

Seriously, do you have anything else to say that doesn't come from the propaganda wing of Hamas?

lol hypocrite

[Shastafarian]

Let's say they wait until the boats enter Israeli waters. Then is it ok for them to board the boats? How should they board the boats? Come up with a Destroyer and announce they're coming aboard? Obviously the helicopter was necessary since the commandos got attacked.

[ElNono]

I assume you're talking about the pistols that were stolen from commandos. What about the people swarming a commando who was repelling down to the boat? I'm not up on combat tactics but it looked like he was mobbed without doing anything. You keep saying the boat was attacked. If the commandos were violent before the "activists" I didn't see it.


They didn't shot at choppers, did they? Did they shot at the commandos rappelling down? No. They didn't have weapons to do so. You can't be naive enough to think there will be no reaction whatsoever when you drop down into a ship with guns blazing.


I honestly don't know why they did it in international waters. But saying you understand it, but you would have preferred they waited until they broke Israeli laws, that's just silly. The activists were violent no matter where they were stopped.

Not Israeli laws. International law. Israel will now have to respond why it attacked a civilian ship full of protesters in international waters. And that's actually what they did ass backwards. If they would have waited for those guys to get into 1 nautical mile inside Israeli waters, then Israel wouldn't have needed to explain absolutely anything.

[ElNono]

Let's say they wait until the boats enter Israeli waters. Then is it ok for them to board the boats? How should they board the boats? Come up with a Destroyer and announce they're coming aboard? Obviously the helicopter was necessary since the commandos got attacked.

Yes, after a warning, then it's OK to board the boats and even sink them if they choose to do so. And they wouldn't need to justify absolutely anything.

[Shastafarian]

They didn't shot at choppers, did they? Did they shot at the commandos rappelling down? No. They didn't have weapons to do so. You can't be naive enough to think there will be no reaction whatsoever when you drop down into a ship with guns blazing.
You keep saying this. Please show me where that happened. They repelled down and were immediately attacked.



Not Israeli laws. International law. Israel will now have to respond why it attacked a civilian ship full of protesters in international waters. And that's actually what they did ass backwards. If they would have waited for those guys to get into 1 nautical mile inside Israeli waters, then Israel wouldn't have needed to explain absolutely anything.
I don't know why they did in in international waters. I'm sure there's a reason. Who knows what it is.

[temujin]

At any rate, these ships are Turkish.
The Turkish government show little enthusiasm for the anti-TERRORIST activities on the boats they had apparently checked.

That's a totally different game with respect to Siria and Egypt.

We''ll see what the US reactions will be.

[Shastafarian]

Yes, after a warning, then it's OK to board the boats and even sink them if they choose to do so. And they wouldn't need to justify absolutely anything.

I don't get it. You're basing all this off an imaginary boundary? Who cares if they have to justify their actions as it pertains to our discussion? Were the activists violent? Is there any evidence as of now that the commandos were violent prior to being attacked?

[ElNono]

Boarding the safest way possible. How else should they have boarded? Or do you think they should've just let the boats pass without inspecting?

Boarding in international waters is considered an attack. There's no two ways to look at it.

[ElNono]

You keep saying this. Please show me where that happened. They repelled down and were immediately attacked.

They found 4 Israeli weapons. The guys rappelling down were commandos. Do you think they were unarmed commandos? Not what I read.


I don't know why they did in in international waters. I'm sure there's a reason. Who knows what it is.

Yeah, it will be interesting to hear why they did it like that. We will hear about it because they will have to respond for doing that.

[ElNono]

I don't get it. You're basing all this off an imaginary boundary? Who cares if they have to justify their actions as it pertains to our discussion? Were the activists violent? Is there any evidence as of now that the commandos were violent prior to being attacked?

There's nothing imaginary about territorial waters and their boundaries, and the laws applied within those bounds.

[Shastafarian]

Boarding in international waters is considered an attack. There's no two ways to look at it.

Can you find the relevant sections of International Law? This guy is claiming it was legal. I honestly don't know.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177047

[Shastafarian]

They found 4 Israeli weapons. The guys rappelling down were commandos. Do you think they were unarmed commandos? Not what I read.There's a disconnect between us. Were the weapons fired before the commandos were attacked?

[temujin]

And the argument is slowly getting to the 1 mile "mistake".

Absolutely brilliant.

There have been about 3 millions people that entered my country ILLEGALLY over the last 20 years.
Most of them by boat.

They were never shot.

I never thought we should have sank all those boats.

One mile or 2 miles or wherever they were.

[Shastafarian]

"There are two possibilities; the first is that Israel may intercept the flotilla to detain the organizers and sympathizers - which is an act of piracy under the international law, or the flotilla reaches its destination.

"If the Israeli government chooses to block the course of the aid convoy it will face a legal action at the Israeli high court or international courts," Prof. Petch said, adding that this possibility is unlikely to happen on the grounds that the flotilla posed no military threat to the Jewish state.

[ElNono]

Can you find the relevant sections of International Law? This guy is claiming it was legal. I honestly don't know.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177047

Here (http://www.un.org/Depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part7.htm)

Under Article 110, Right of visit.

[ElNono]

There's a disconnect between us. Were the weapons fired before the commandos were attacked?

No. Which is exactly my point. Israel simply had no grounds to board the ships in the first place.

[ElNono]

Well, if they're going to call a bunch of unarmed protesters inside a ship 'piracy', then we're really in it for a good laugh.

[Shastafarian]

So what you're arguing is they did have the right to board if they had let the ship enter Israeli waters?

[temujin]

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu called the incident "murder committed by a state" and said Israel had "lost all legitimacy".

There was a particularly strong response from Turkey, where many of the activists on the ships are from.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused Israel of state terrorism and violation of international law.

In Istanbul, thousands of protesters took part in an angry demonstration against Israel.

Turkey was Israel's closest Muslim ally but relations have deteriorated in recent years.

[Ghazi]

This thread should be renamed "Shastafarian looking foolish whilst defending Israel killing innocent people"

[ElNono]

So what you're arguing is they did have the right to board if they had let the ship enter Israeli waters?

Correct. Under Isareli waters, Israeli law applies. As such, they could have basically done whatever they wanted, and would not have had to respond to anybody.

Like you said, it will be interesting to hear the rationale for attacking when they did.

[ElNono]

Turkey basically organized this thing. No surprises they're pulling the cards they're pulling now.

[temujin]

Piracy?

Act of piracy!

Where were the Jolly Rogers?

Mankell, the new coming of Long John Silver!!!

[Shastafarian]

This thread should be renamed "Shastafarian looking foolish whilst defending Israel killing innocent people"

Wouldn't be as good a title as "The ***OFFICIAL*** $250 hand job thread"

lol paying $250 for a handjob

lol pokemon

[temujin]

This thread should be renamed "Shastafarian looking foolish whilst defending Israel killing innocent people"

He's got to do what he is paid for.
Today the bar is very very high.
Don't blame the guy for that.

[Shastafarian]

Correct. Under Isareli waters, Israeli law applies. As such, they could have basically done whatever they wanted, and would not have had to respond to anybody.

Like you said, it will be interesting to hear the rationale for attacking when they did.

They're claiming they ships would bring harm on their nation. I read through the preamble and there's really nothing about that kind of thing. It's all based on piracy and the slave trade.

[temujin]

Turkey basically organized this thing. No surprises they're pulling the cards they're pulling now.

And why was that.

Aside from the US. Turkey was Israel' best friend in the region.

Always been.

[Shastafarian]

He's got to do what he is paid for.
Today the bar is very very high.
Don't blame the guy for that.

What I'm paid for? :lol Lemme guess, you live in one of the Muslim countries surrounding Israel? You're just like a caricature of all these idiot young arabs who protest cuz it's the cool thing to do.

[ElNono]

They're claiming they ships would bring harm on their nation. I read through the preamble and there's really nothing about that kind of thing. It's all based on piracy and the slave trade.

Those are the current, up to date, laws of the high seas (AKA international waters). Which is exactly why I don't understand why Israel didn't cover their asses by waiting until they were out of international waters.

I guess we'll hear why sooner or later.

[Ghazi]

This thread isn't about Pokemon or hand jobs, it's about Israel killing innocent people.

[Shastafarian]

Instead of actually saying something about the situation at hand, Pikachu and Baghdad Bob resort to ad-hominem attacks. I'm shocked :lmao

[ElNono]

And why was that.

Aside from the US. Turkey was Israel' best friend in the region.

Always been.

Turkey knew exactly what they were doing when they were 'unofficially' supporting this. And it's far from being friendly to Israel.

[temujin]

Correct. Under Isareli waters, Israeli law applies. As such, they could have basically done whatever they wanted, and would not have had to respond to anybody.

Like you said, it will be interesting to hear the rationale for attacking when they did.

The rationale is simple.

They do whatever they want.
They know they can.
They know their acts have zero consequences.
They know they have by far the biggest stick.
They are simply the master surrounded by slaves.

As simple as that.

The ONLY logical question is why NOT do it.

[Shastafarian]

Those are the current, up to date, laws of the high seas (AKA international waters). Which is exactly why I don't understand why Israel didn't cover their asses by waiting until they were out of international waters.

I guess we'll hear why sooner or later.

Thing is there's nothing about violent organizations/ships/whatever making it known they will break a naval blockade. I suspect Israel would use that to say it didn't break the laws because there doesn't exist an adequate law to police situations like this.

[Shastafarian]

This thread isn't about Pokemon or hand jobs

You're here so those are parts of the thread now.

[ElNono]

Thing is there's nothing about violent organizations/ships/whatever making it known they will break a naval blockade. I suspect Israel would use that to say it didn't break the laws because there doesn't exist an adequate law to police situations like this.

The ships had identifying flags, and there's a protocol to inspect a ship if there are suspicions. It's right there in the Article I pointed you to. You need to send a boat, etc etc etc. No choppers with armed commandos though.

[temujin]

What I'm paid for? :lol Lemme guess, you live in one of the Muslim countries surrounding Israel? You're just like a caricature of all these idiot young arabs who protest cuz it's the cool thing to do.

No, I am not.

So you do this for free?
I mean you really believe this BS?

Amazing.

[ElNono]

Now, I'm sure that if there's a gray area somewhere in this thing we'll hear all about it now. And if there wasn't, I fully expect one appear soon enough.

[Shastafarian]

No, I am not.You're not what?


So you do this for free?
I mean you really believe this BS?

Amazing.
Do what? Post on a message board? Yeah. Why, who's paying you for the bullshit you spew out?

[BadOdor]

lol palis getting owned. Per course.

[temujin]

You're not what?



I am not what you wrote I am.
A character you have been trained to hate.

Ghazi, that's easy.
He is from Iran, hence an authomatic terrorist.
Although his country has NOT aggressed anybody over the last 100 years.
Unlike others.
Rather, his country has been aggressed.
So, he is easy to hate and I guess you feel good about it.
You "fought your battle" eh".

Me?
Living in a peacefull country.
I am not obessed by this RACE thing.
I probably have jewish blood. Likely I would say. As well as berber. 150 years back.
As well as scores of dear jewish friends that are appalled by what's happening in Israel.

Think about it.
If you guys have people like me (And Mankell) outraged, you are in trouble.
Deep trouble, long term.

Now keep on that wonderful discussion about the "one mile away from territorial waters."

I am sure that will "buy" the hearts of your neighbours.

[Shastafarian]

I am not what you wrote I am.
A character you have been trained to hate.You sure sound like one.


Ghazi, that's easy.
He is from Iran, hence an authomatic terrorist.I called him a terrorist?

Although his country has NOT aggressed anybody over the last 100 years.:lol

Unlike others.
Rather, his country has been aggressed.
So, he is easy to hate and I guess you feel good about it.
You "fought your battle" eh".Why does that make him easy to hate? Are you reading from your notes or not? Gotta keep those things handy.


Me?
Living in a peacefull country.Which country is that?


I am not obessed by this RACE thing.Could've fooled me.


I probably have jewish blood. Likely I would say. As well as berber. 150 years back.
As well as scores of dear jewish friends that are appalled by what's happening in Israel.Do you have any friends with differing view points? Or is that not how you roll?




Now keep on that wonderful discussion about the "one mile away from territorial waters."Again you misinterpret what I'm saying.


I am sure that will "buy" the hearts of your neighbours.

Yeah you seem like a real moderate. :lmao

[temujin]

Which country is that?

A country whose citizens -like me- go spend the holidays in a neighbouring country, with which there has been a nasty border dispute, with more deaths than in all the arab-israeli "wars" combined,
and from which my fellow citizens were kicked out by the hundreds of thousands after WW2.
Overnight.
A country that dealt with differences.
A country with no RACE obsessions.


Could've fooled me.

Not difficult.

Do you have any friends with differing view points? Or is that not how you roll?

A minority. I would say one.

Yeah you seem like a real moderate. :lmao

A moderate is NOT someone that says: A killed B? OK, that doesn't concern me. I don't care.
that's an idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

Seems extremely heavy handed. No reason at all for a commando assault.

[boutons_deux]

Al Jazeera Reports, You Decide

"In what could be a serious blow to Israel's narrative on the killing of at least nine humanitarian activists making their way to Gaza through international waters, raw video by an Al Jazeera producer, who was filming during the raid, appears to provide evidence that the IDF opened fire on the flotilla even before boarding it."


"However, in raw video captured by an Al Jazeera producer and published to YouTube late Monday, two journalists provide a play-by-play of the harrowing event as pops and cracks echo in the background. Even before the Israeli forces were aboard, one says, they were pelting the boat with tear gas and stun grenades, injuring numerous people."

"Even before the Israeli forces were aboard, one says, they were pelting the boat with tear gas and stun grenades, injuring numerous people."

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0531/raw-video-reporter-claims-israelis-fired-activists-boarding-ship/

As with the US or any military or any institution (Religion, corporation, etc), one assumes they are lying and the burden is on them to prove otherwise.

[Shastafarian]

pmhgPUXnzBU&feature=player_embedded

Check out the video from the deck of the ship. As soon as one Israeli soldier lands on the deck, they swarm him and start beating him with metal poles and grates. Looked pretty peaceful.

[spursncowboys]

They didn't shot at choppers, did they? Did they shot at the commandos rappelling down? No. They didn't have weapons to do so. You can't be naive enough to think there will be no reaction whatsoever when you drop down into a ship with guns blazing.



Not Israeli laws. International law. Israel will now have to respond why it attacked a civilian ship full of protesters in international waters. And that's actually what they did ass backwards. If they would have waited for those guys to get into 1 nautical mile inside Israeli waters, then Israel wouldn't have needed to explain absolutely anything.
why were protesters trying to illegally go through a blockade? there are tons of international groups that transfer supplies into the w.b. and g.s. they were sympathetic to the palestinian terrorists' cause and therefore should not directly be involved. imho.

[spursncowboys]

Those are the current, up to date, laws of the high seas (AKA international waters). Which is exactly why I don't understand why Israel didn't cover their asses by waiting until they were out of international waters.

I guess we'll hear why sooner or later.
They could be pushing precedent farther for all the muslim countries (iran, s.a, syria). It's a changing world and they might try and have more regional influence. Just a thought with all the Iran-nuke and the domino affect that will bring.

[ElNono]

why were protesters trying to illegally go through a blockade? there are tons of international groups that transfer supplies into the w.b. and g.s. they were sympathetic to the palestinian terrorists' cause and therefore should not directly be involved. imho.

They were obviously trying to provoke a reaction, besides of delivering actual aid.
The question is, did they actually go through the blockade when they got their ships boarded?
We can argue all day about the intentions or the intended results. There are clearly defined procedures to deal with these kind of situations, and this is exactly why Israel is taking heat.
IMO, what Israel did amounts to more of the 'preemptive doctrine' bullshit started by the US. I personally have no problem with Israel, and I think their blockade is entirely legal. But I also think they should not be above the law when and if they fuck up.

[ElNono]

They could be pushing precedent farther for all the muslim countries (iran, s.a, syria). It's a changing world and they might try and have more regional influence. Just a thought with all the Iran-nuke and the domino affect that will bring.

That entire area is one big clusterfuck. I've been saying that for a while now.

[sook]

Can anyone tell me why this has happened to the U.N and many other peace organizations countless times?

[sook]

Hell, we need to just nuke the entire middle east including Israel, I'm tired of our tax dollars and attention being detracted from our own nation.

[Ghazi]

Hell, we need to just nuke the entire middle east including Israel, I'm tired of our tax dollars and attention being detracted from our own nation.

:nope

[angrydude]

World Regrets Deaths of Jihadists, Vilifies Israel

P. David Hornik

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/01/world-regrets-deaths-of-jihadists-vilifies-israel/


Much regret is being expressed about the deaths of the “activists” who were among those attacking Israeli naval commandos with knives, clubs, iron bars, chairs, and snatched handguns on the Mavi Marmara early Monday morning. The ship was one in a six-ship flotilla of Muslim and radical-Leftist anti-Israeli activists that was approaching Gaza with the expressed aim of breaking Israel’s naval blockade of the Strip and bringing purportedly badly needed humanitarian supplies. The Mavi Marmara was also known by the Israeli authorities to be the largest and most hostile ship in the flotilla.

Yet, either out of poor intelligence or naiveté on the part of their superiors, the commandos descended onto the ship unprepared, bearing only paintball rifles. It was only after several of them had already been severely injured and at least one of them thrown off the boat (see some of the brutality here) that the commandos finally got permission to open fire with their handguns and saved their comrades and themselves.

One of the soldiers said the scene on the deck “looked like the Ramallah lynch” of 2000, in which two off-duty Israeli soldiers strayed into the West Bank town of Ramallah and were horrifically lynched by an Arab mob. In that case there were only two soldiers and they were unable to defend themselves; but it would hardly have been regrettable if more soldiers had been able to come to their aid in time and killed as many of their attackers as was necessary to save their lives.

That is not to say the rioters aboard the Mavi Marmara—although their snatching and use of the handguns was a clear attempt to kill some of the soldiers—had any hope of prevailing over the commando force. What, then, in relentlessly attacking an elite military force mostly with knives, clubs, and the like, did the devout, “Allah Akbar”-chanting “activists” hope to accomplish? Clearly, that some of them would be “martyred” and thereby create yet another anti-Israeli international incident—at which, of course, they succeeded.

They succeeded even though the flotilla their ship was part of was organized by the IHH—a Turkish radical-Islamist organization that, as documented by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, closely cooperates with the Hamas rulers of Gaza and with global jihad networks in Chechnya, Bosnia, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan while having ties with Al-Qaeda.

They succeeded even though, four days ago on May 28, members of the flotilla were filmed chanting “Khaybar, Khaybar, oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return” (a reference to a seventh-century massacre of Jews by Muslims) along with songs of the mass-murderous “Palestinian intifada,” and saying “We are now waiting for one of two good things—to reach Gaza or to achieve martyrdom”; and even though, three days ago on May 29, organizers of the flotilla explicitly told Al Jazeera TV that they were aiming for a confrontation with Israel that would have maximal media coverage.

They succeeded even though it is incontrovertibly evident that the Mavi Marmara was warned by Israel—before the commando boarding—that it was “approaching an area of hostility which is under a naval blockade,” and was invited instead to peacefully dock at Israel’s Ashdod port, have the supplies it was carrying peacefully transferred to Gaza after security checks, and then have its passengers peacefully sail back to their home ports—to which the “martyrdom”-seeking, weapons-hoarding Mavi Marmara replied for all the world to hear: “Negative, negative. Our destination is Gaza.”

They succeeded even though, despite the usual accusations of Israel doing a poor public-relations job with this latest crisis, since May 25 the Israeli Foreign Ministry has posted information clearly refuting the myth of the “humanitarian crisis in Gaza” that was the ostensible justification for the flotilla, detailing instead the voluminous food, medical, building, electric, sanitation, and other supplies that regularly cross into Gaza from Israel.

But those are mere facts, something the world doesn’t want to be confused with when Palestinians, Arabs, or other Muslims manage to provoke yet another bloody media confrontation with Israel. And so, in absolutely de rigueur, numbingly predictable fashion, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon professed to be “shocked by reports of killing of people in boats carrying supply to Gaza,” Israel’s purported “friend” French president Nicolas Sarkozy condemned “the disproportionate use of force,” British Foreign Secretary William Hague said he “deplore[d] the loss of life,” the European Union called for a comprehensive inquiry into Israel’s actions, the UN Security Council was set to meet in emergency session—and so on ad nauseam.

This, of course, being relatively restrained compared to the Arab and Muslim world, where, for instance, Turks in Istanbul chanted “Israel you will drown in blood,” Israel’s “peace partner” Mahmoud Abbas condemned the “massacre” and proclaimed three days of mourning in the Palestinian Authority, Israeli-Arab Member of Knesset Mohammad Barakeh said “the crimes of the pirate government” were “beyond international and human law” and “tyrants like Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak will find themselves in the suitable place in the garbage can of history,” and the noted humanitarian, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, said, “All these acts indicate the end of the heinous and fake regime and will bring it closer to the end of its existence”—for which he can expect to be rewarded with his next invitation to address the UN.

Much was also made of the fact that the commando boarding was carried out in international waters—as if to introduce a new norm in international relations where, for instance, a ship carrying WMD cargo in the middle of the Atlantic would have to be allowed to sail all the way to U.S. territorial waters before it could be interdicted; as if interdictions in international waters of ships breaking embargos, carrying illegal weapons, and so on were not common occurrences—except, of course, when Israel, the pariah and “Jew among the nations,” dares to do it.

As for President Barack Obama, he reportedly postponed his Tuesday meeting with Netanyahu as the latter hurried back to Israel from Canada, and “expressed deep regret at the loss of life in today’s incident.” Netanyahu, for his part, also said he regretted the deaths while going so far as to affirm that Israeli troops have the right to defend themselves when their lives are in danger.

The ten or so knife-, club-, and gun-wielding jihadists killed aboard the Mavi Marmara will, then, be among the most regretted, apologized-for casualties in history, probably generating a greater total of “regret” than literally millions of unarmed civilians killed in the Congo and Sudan. Israel will again be dragged through the mud, its already threadbare legitimacy given yet another pounding. The sanctimonious hypocrisy of democratic leaders—who know just what they’d do if terrorist ships were speeding toward their waters and could, of course, handle the situation without a smidgeon of violence—is as always not pretty to see. Israel, however, has the strength to cope with the attacks, slanders, and vituperation, because it doesn’t have any choice.

[Ignignokt]

World Regrets Deaths of Jihadists, Vilifies Israel

P. David Hornik

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/01/world-regrets-deaths-of-jihadists-vilifies-israel/

^^^ this basically facialed Chump, Ghazi, and Sook.


Who gives a shit about jihadist.

[ChumpDumper]

Why the commando raid outside of Israeli waters, gtown?

[ChumpDumper]

World Regrets Deaths of Jihadists, Vilifies Israel

P. David Hornik

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/01/world-regrets-deaths-of-jihadists-vilifies-israel/The way this guy puts it, the Israelis played right into their hands.

Pretty stupid of Israel.

[sook]

World Regrets Deaths of Jihadists, Vilifies Israel

P. David Hornik

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/01/world-regrets-deaths-of-jihadists-vilifies-israel/

Did you just look at the website you got that link off of you dumbass motherfucker?


LOL.

That is an EXTREMELY pro Israel site, just look at the rest of the articles / tabs.

You stupid sheep, go ahead and believe what they want you to believe, I mean its not like theres a reason we are THE ONLY nation that backs their stupid bullshit.


Next time, give me A PROPER link, not a biased article from an Pro Israeli website.

[sook]

The guy that runs the site, David Horowitz, is a jewish zionist. THE DUDE IS A HARD RIGHT FUCKING RADICAL.

Do some fucking research for gods fucking sake you dumbass.

I'm tired of this forum being littered with uneducated fucks posting biased articles. Don't post an article of an extremist zionist's website's view on the matter.

[sook]

you know what, I'll go ahead and post an article from al jahzeeraa or whatever! We'll see whose telling the truth!

[ElNono]

World Regrets Deaths of Jihadists, Vilifies Israel

P. David Hornik

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/06/01/world-regrets-deaths-of-jihadists-vilifies-israel/

Interesting. Thanks for posting a different view.
I guess we're to believe now that chanting against Israel is some kind of indictment into being a terrorist.
Or that we're to believe that civilians carrying clubs are the aggressors, while commandos carrying loaded handguns are the victims...

[ElNono]

Here's another article from the Spanish press agency, EFE.
Talks about the backlash on the premier by the local press.

Israeli press strikes against Netanyahu
The premier was heavily criticized by the country's media after the raid to the humanitarian flotilla

Jerusalem (EFE) - Benjamín Netanyahu, the Israeli premier, is today at the center of a unusual and virulent critique from the Israeli press, who has even gone as far as to ask for the dismissal of the Defense minister, Ehud Barak, as a result of the tragic consequences of the assault to the humanitarian flotilla.

"Where was his head?", "Fist of power", "Lawlessness as a method of action", "Complete stupidity", "Fool's leadership", "The price of a deficient policy", "High Seas Fiasco", are some of the titles of a multitude of opinion pieces and editorials that graced Israel's top newspapers.

It's the first time that Netanyahu, who arrived to power in March 2009 after consolidating a right wing coalition, faces waves of criticism of this magnitude in the public opinion of his country, after suffering a milder reaction in March after the worst diplomatic crisis with the US in decades.

"Almost everything we do in the last few years suffers from some kind of deficiency, lack of intelligence to incur in negligence", writes Sima Kadmon in an article published by the Yediot Aharonot newspaper, the one with more prints in the country.

His colleague, Amnon Abramovich, remarks that "every time he's in contact with something related to the Army and security, the premier has bad luck or is a victim of some curse". "But there's a point where bad luck becomes a methodology. At some point the critical mass of so many cases of bad luck turn into a basic trait of the person", he adds.

The journalist Eitan Haber, former chief of staff of murdered premier Itzjak Rabin, comments that the problem the humanitarian flotilla represented to Israel "could have been solved in a peaceful way", but Israel again let itself get carried away with the thought that "the solution is in the force".

Ben Dror Yamini, from the Maariv newspaper, writes in his article "Fool's leadership" that while it's true that leaders make mistakes, "you have to differentiate between plainly making mistakes and making mistakes when the result is foreseeable". "If this is the Israeli leadership these days, then I don't think any israeli can sleep at ease at night thinking about the biggest treat we face".

Meanwhile, the writer David Grossman of the Haaretz newspaper adds that "no explanation can justify or wash away the crime that has been committed, nor there are excuses for the stupid way in which the government and the army have acted".

A big part of the responsibility assigned by the writers is steered toward the Defense minister Ehud Barak, who is being asked to resign by another influential columnist, Sver Ploztker, from the Yediot Aharonot. "It doesn't matter how the decision was made to fall into the trap, in Hama's provocation, and it doesn't matter what other alternatives were available. The only thing that matters is that Barak has failed and he needs to resign", he writes.

In that same tune, Nahum Barnea, another pillar of the local press, reminds everyone that the minister likes to profess in every direction that "the results are the only measure of efficiency" and that "if this is the result, the assault on the flotilla opens up a lot of questions".

Translated from here (http://noticias.latino.msn.com/politica/articulos.aspx?cp-documentid=24432011)

[spursncowboys]

The guy that runs the site, David Horowitz, is a jewish zionist. THE DUDE IS A HARD RIGHT FUCKING RADICAL.

Do some fucking research for gods fucking sake you dumbass.

I'm tired of this forum being littered with uneducated fucks posting biased articles. Don't post an article of an extremist zionist's website's view on the matter.
You cannot discredit horowitz because his political views. He was raised as a liberal communist by commie parents.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Sorry, but people like DOK can't even defend this.

Actually I find it pretty easy for Israel to attack a boat full of people chanting death to the Jews.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

you know what, I'll go ahead and post an article from al jahzeeraa or whatever! We'll see whose telling the truth!


lol hating Israel so much you resort to rag head propaganda as the truth
lol becoming a bandwagon Suns fan
lol terrorist sympathizer

[DarrinS]

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Gaza_flotilla_maritime_blockade_Gaza-Legal_background_31-May-2010.htm




1. A maritime blockade is in effect off the coast of Gaza. Such blockade has been imposed, as Israel is currently in a state of armed conflict with the Hamas regime that controls Gaza, which has repeatedly bombed civilian targets in Israel with weapons that have been smuggled into Gaza via the sea.

2. Maritime blockades are a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea.

3. A blockade may be imposed at sea, including in international waters, so long as it does not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral states.

4. The naval manuals of several western countries, including the US and England recognize the maritime blockade as an effective naval measure and set forth the various criteria that make a blockade valid, including the requirement of give due notice of the existence of the blockade.

5. In this vein, it should be noted that Israel publicized the existence of the blockade and the precise coordinates of such by means of the accepted international professional maritime channels. Israel also provided appropriate notification to the affected governments and to the organizers of the Gaza protest flotilla. Moreover, in real time, the ships participating in the protest flotilla were warned repeatedly that a maritime blockade is in effect.

6. Here, it should be noted that under customary law, knowledge of the blockade may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification has been granted, as above.

7. Under international maritime law, when a maritime blockade is in effect, no boats can enter the blockaded area. That includes both civilian and enemy vessels.

8. A state may take action to enforce a blockade. Any vessel that violates or attempts to violate a maritime blockade may be captured or even attacked under international law. The US Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations sets forth that a vessel is considered to be in attempt to breach a blockade from the time the vessel leaves its port with the intention of evading the blockade.

9. Here we should note that the protesters indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade by means of written and oral statements. Moreover, the route of these vessels indicated their clear intention to violate the blockade in violation of international law.

10. Given the protesters explicit intention to violate the naval blockade, Israel exercised its right under international law to enforce the blockade. It should be noted that prior to undertaking enforcement measures, explicit warnings were relayed directly to the captains of the vessels, expressing Israel's intent to exercise its right to enforce the blockade.

11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.

12. Israeli personnel attempting to enforce the blockade were met with violence by the protesters and acted in self defense to fend off such attacks.

[angrydude]

The guy that runs the site, David Horowitz, is a jewish zionist. THE DUDE IS A HARD RIGHT FUCKING RADICAL.

Do some fucking research for gods fucking sake you dumbass.

I'm tired of this forum being littered with uneducated fucks posting biased articles. Don't post an article of an extremist zionist's website's view on the matter.

I'm fully aware of where the article comes from. Discredit the facts within it please. I felt this discussion could use a little perspective from the other side.

[ElNono]

11. Israel had attempted to take control of the vessels participating in the flotilla by peaceful means and in an orderly fashion in order to enforce the blockade. Given the large number of vessels participating in the flotilla, an operational decision was made to undertake measures to enforce the blockade a certain distance from the area of the blockade.

Ok, so there's the official story.

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Law/Legal+Issues+and+Rulings/Gaza_flotilla_maritime_blockade_Gaza-Legal_background_31-May-2010.htm

So if this is the case, why do you think that papers in Israel are calling for Netanyahu's resignation? If it was completely within their rights why do you think he's facing so much criticism?

It's amazing that some Americans in this forum are defending this more than the press of Israel.

[Shastafarian]

Did you just look at the website you got that link off of you dumbass motherfucker?


LOL.

That is an EXTREMELY pro Israel site, just look at the rest of the articles / tabs.

You stupid sheep, go ahead and believe what they want you to believe, I mean its not like theres a reason we are THE ONLY nation that backs their stupid bullshit.


Next time, give me A PROPER link, not a biased article from an Pro Israeli website.


The guy that runs the site, David Horowitz, is a jewish zionist. THE DUDE IS A HARD RIGHT FUCKING RADICAL.

Do some fucking research for gods fucking sake you dumbass.

I'm tired of this forum being littered with uneducated fucks posting biased articles. Don't post an article of an extremist zionist's website's view on the matter.


who boarded whose ship you piece of shit nutsack?

Good good, just build a shrine in front of your house and claim israel your god and be done with it.

:lmao

So not only does he respond to everyone who opposes his views with names, he says the board is full of idiots who won't post unbiased articles. Yet, all he does is call people names instead of...wait for it...post unbiased articles. Job well fucking done sook. :tu

[DarrinS]

Peace activists

2NelkBB9PcA

[Shastafarian]

So if this is the case, why do you think that papers in Israel are calling for Netanyahu's resignation? If it was completely within their rights why do you think he's facing so much criticism?

It's amazing that some Americans in this forum are defending this more than the press of Israel.

How about the people of Israel?

[sook]

Actually I find it pretty easy for Israel to attack a boat full of people chanting death to the Jews.

Oh yea, wheres your credibility they said that?


And even if they did say blah blah blah, how do democratic principles defend that?

It was a ship with a white you stupid idiot.

I get that you're probably jewish, but get your head out of your ass and stop making ignorant statements. If your going to say bigoted things like that and not contribute anything, then shut up.


And the same people you are attacking have the same legitimacy in killing you by your logic since you chant death to them.

Drop the stupid right wing kill all bullshit that islamic extremists and neocons live by. There was a peaceful solution to the problem, and it wasn't exercised.

[DarrinS]

P6jDIQr59Sk

JvS9PXZ3RWM

[Shastafarian]

Oh yea, wheres your credibility they said that?


And even if they did say blah blah blah, how do democratic principles defend that?

It was a ship with a white you stupid idiot.


I get that you're probably jewish, but get your head out of your ass and stop making ignorant statements. If your going to say bigoted things like that and not contribute anything, than shut up.
I didn't feel like bolding and underling this entire thing so we'll just set it aside for later.

[sook]

Peace activists

2NelkBB9PcA

wtf?!?!?! haha that fake jihaad jihad bullshit in the end cracks me up :lol:lol


You probably did it yourself.

[ElNono]

Peace activists

2NelkBB9PcA

Where's the YouTube asking to board and inspect the ships in international waters?

[sook]

I didn't feel like bolding and underling this entire thing so we'll just set it aside for later.

Good job ..great point!

What is it?


Shastafarian with another useless post.

[Shastafarian]

Good job ..great point!

What is it?


Shastafarian with another useless post.

I'm just quoting all your ad-hominem attacks and they compromise the majority of your posts. You saying "another useless post" is just the gravy on top of the hypocrisy mound of mashed potatoes.

[sook]

:lmao

So not only does he respond to everyone who opposes his views with names, he says the board is full of idiots who won't post unbiased articles. Yet, all he does is call people names instead of...wait for it...post unbiased articles. Job well fucking done sook. :tu

You deserve a medal for this great work you have done. I hope you find it here.


Next time someone calls you a name don't menstruate straight onto your panties, shove a tampon up in there to soak things up.

[sook]

I'm just quoting all your ad-hominem attacks and they compromise the majority of your posts. You saying "another useless post" is just the gravy on top of the hypocrisy mound of mashed potatoes.

shastafarian with his freud-esque psycho analysis at best. Please tell me more.

What more have you unearthed? I am curious to know.

[Shastafarian]

You deserve a medal for this great work you have done. I hope you find it here.


Next time someone calls you a name don't menstruate straight onto your panties, shove a tampon up in there to soak things up.

Well done. I particularly enjoyed the relative neutral standpoint in that article. Oh my bad. You didn't post anything other than another ad-hominem. :lol I'm the one that's menstruating?


who boarded whose ship you piece of shit nutsack?

Good good, just build a shrine in front of your house and claim israel your god and be done with it. :rollin I can almost hear your voice breaking when you yell that.

[sook]

lol hating Israel so much you resort to rag head propaganda as the truth
lol becoming a bandwagon Suns fan
lol terrorist sympathizer

:lmao

I love the hate I'm inciting. Bring it jew boy.

[sook]

Well done. I particularly enjoyed the relative neutral standpoint in that article. Oh my bad. You didn't post anything other than another ad-hominem. :lol I'm the one that's menstruating?

:rollin I can almost hear your voice breaking when you yell that.

Why are you trying to visualize me through an internet post? Stick to the facts and resort to your fantasies later.

[hater]

JvS9PXZ3RWM

"IDF forces uncovered a cache of weapons including many knives, slingshots, rocks, smoke bombs, metal rods, improvised sharp metal objects, sticks and clubs, 5KG hammers, firebombs and gas masks"

yeah they were really gonna kill some Jews with that

:lmao :lmao

[Shastafarian]

you know what, I'll go ahead and post an article from al jahzeeraa or whatever! We'll see whose telling the truth!

Go ahead and post it. At least you'll contribute something to the discussion.

[Shastafarian]

Why are you trying to visualize me through an internet post? Stick to the facts and resort to your fantasies later.

Classic. Are you trying to troll or are you just a natural at it? What facts have you presented?

[sook]

Go ahead and post it. At least you'll contribute something to the discussion.

By doing so, I would be going against the principles I stand by, it was sarcasm and maybe I need to do a better job of making it more apparent to the more rudimentary posters on this board.

[Shastafarian]

By doing so, I would be going against the principles I stand by,:rollin Some principles ya got there. What are you gonna call me next? A shit eating jewfag?

it was sarcasm and maybe I need to do a better job of making it more apparent to the more rudimentary posters on this board.
Yeah...exactly why I said "at least you'll contribute something..." with emphasis on something. Do I need to explain that to you?

[sook]

:rollin Some principles ya got there. What are you gonna call me next? A shit eating jewfag?

Yeah...exactly why I said "at least you'll contribute something..." with emphasis on something. Do I need to explain that to you?

I don't have a problem with jews, most of my friends are jewish back up north and I was just teasing DOK.

There is no place for racism / descrimination in my book. I'll just call the stupid fucks out like I see them. Kind of like this is going now right? I hope things are getting more lucid. It has taken numerous replies for you to understand this premise.

[Shastafarian]

:lol

You're pretty good at backtracking too. Still waiting on you to post an unbiased article.

[DarrinS]

The flotilla of "peace" activists was wrong to confront the Israeli Navy. The Israeli Navy was wrong in its response.

[Shastafarian]

Next time, give me A PROPER link, not a biased article from an Pro Israeli website.

[sook]

Ok Shasta, thats one free pass.

Lets not detract from the main argument which i will so generously bring up again.

You can't rely on Israel's picture to paint the picture, especially from a radical website, already spectators are questioning Israel's side of the story.

Before getting all the facts straight, hold of on your assumptions.

What we do know is the ship was in international waters and was attacks. Something that should be understood as wrong? Am i correct?



Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.

The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.
The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.

"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."

She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.
UN criticism

Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.

He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey. Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire.

Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said.

Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza.

Following the Israeli sea-born raid, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened.

The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007, although special medical cases are occasionally allowed through.

The Egyptian state news agency said the latest opening was to allow humanitarian aid through. It is not clear how long it will be kept open.

The UN Security Council issued a statement after deliberating through the night.

It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

[ElNono]

The flotilla of "peace" activists was wrong to confront the Israeli Navy. The Israeli Navy was wrong in its response.


Where's the YouTube asking to board and inspect the ships in international waters?

[DarrinS]

The Israeli Navy told them what port to go to have their cargo inspected.

[sook]

The flotilla of "peace" activists was wrong to confront the Israeli Navy. The Israeli Navy was wrong in its response.

pretty much darrins. Nice reply.

And I agree with this. Its the stupid retards Like DOK with their gaping mouth ready to take Israel's load in any time is what pissed me off.

Neither side can be vindicated. Which is why I have been hard on the pro israeli posters.



Israeli people are calling for Nat.'s resignation, because they too believe excessive force was used.

So can the biased posters on the board at least conceide that?

[Cry Havoc]

Classic. Are you trying to troll or are you just a natural at it? What facts have you presented?

If his posts are so ridiculous, why do you keep responding to him instead of other people in the thread who are attempting to rationally discuss the situation?

[sook]

The Israeli Navy told them what port to go to have their cargo inspected.

at some point they needed to. But attacking in international waters is pretty much the WORST they could have done from a PR perspective.

Many people are just concious of the fact Israel takes away all the supplies that many good people donate for the ppl of ghaza.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Sook, are you a camel jockey?

[Shastafarian]

Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.

Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.

The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.
The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.

"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.

"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon."

She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.
UN criticism

Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.

He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey. Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire.

Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said.

Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza.

Following the Israeli sea-born raid, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened.

The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007, although special medical cases are occasionally allowed through.

The Egyptian state news agency said the latest opening was to allow humanitarian aid through. It is not clear how long it will be kept open.

The UN Security Council issued a statement after deliberating through the night.

It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.
link?

[Shastafarian]

If his posts are so ridiculous, why do you keep responding to him instead of other people in the thread who are attempting to rationally discuss the situation?

I spent most of last night discussing it. I come to the thread today and see all the ad-hominem attacks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Its the stupid retards Like DOK with their gaping mouth ready to take Israel's load in any time is what pissed me off.


I respond to terrorist sympathizing with blind Israeli sympathy. It's how I role, if you don't like it, then stop sympathizing with people who fly planes into buildings.

[sook]

Sook, are you a camel jockey?

no :lol

and its not fair to be portrayed as such if you don't vindicate israel in everything it does.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Next time, give me A PROPER link, not a biased article from an Pro Israeli website.


coming from someone who thinks Al jihada is a legitimate news source.

[sook]

I respond to terrorist sympathizing with blind Israeli sympathy. It's how I role, if you don't like it, then stop sympathizing with people who fly planes into buildings.

the people on the boats were flying planes into buildings?

I missed that last part, link please.

And if that is the case I feel the same way as you. I don't like grouping an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, and I feel this way accross the board.

[sook]

coming from someone who thinks Al jihada is a legitimate news source.
LOL no! My point was exactly the opposite!

I said taking that as credible is just like take al jazzeeera as your link. Both are biased.

[angrydude]

HThF8ft5Cls

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

the people on the boats were flying planes into buildings?

I missed that last part, link please.

And if that is the case I feel the same way as you. I don't like grouping an entire group of people based on the actions of a few, and I feel this way accross the board.


9/11 was committed in the name of Islam as a Jihadist act, and no prominent islamic figure spoke out against it, therefore I can only assume the majority of those who practice Islam were in favor of the attacks.

[sook]

I spent most of last night discussing it. I come to the thread today and see all the ad-hominem attacks.

you haven't built a concrete arguement to any of my posts.

DOK is saying the boat people fly planes into buildings and you continue with your ameture psychoanalysis.

They attacked in international waters.

Under "INTERNATIONAL LAW" that is wrong.

That is where the argument begins. You aren't even giving me that.

[sook]

9/11 was committed in the name of Islam as a Jihadist act, and no prominent islamic figure spoke out against it, therefore I can only assume the majority of those who practice Islam were in favor of the attacks.

i find that hard to believe. That is an extremely RADICAL take on the situation. I hope you don't feel that way.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

i find that hard to believe. That is an extremely RADICAL take on the situation. I hope you don't feel that way.

Islam is an extremely radical religion.

[sook]

link?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm


BBC, which qualifies as a proper source. Not some stupid website led by a radical.

[Shastafarian]

you haven't built a concrete arguement to any of my posts.
What posts have you said anything of substance?


DOK is saying the boat people fly planes into buildings and you continue with your ameture psychoanalysis. I'm waiting on a link to that article you posted before I respond to it directly


They attacked in international waters.

Under "INTERNATIONAL LAW" that is wrong.

That is where the argument begins. You aren't even giving me that.

I've already had a lengthy argument with ElNono about it last night. If you had read the thread before calling people names you would have known that.

[sook]

Islam is an extremely radical religion.

I think those people are in the minority and increase when actions like these incite hatred across the world.

[sook]

What posts have you said anything of substance?

I'm waiting on a link to that article you posted before I respond to it directly



I'll already had a lengthy argument with ElNono about it last night. If you had read the thread before calling people names you would have known that.

then wait for me to post the link. Don't go pulling me into your tangential arguments to detract from the facts.

here it is again and ^^^^

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10208027.stm

Now respond to me BASED ON THE INFO.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think those people are in the minority and increase when actions like these incite hatred across the world.


I agree, and it's because of knee jerk liberals who believe the Islamic propaganda that their population is peaceful. If Islamics were so peaceful it doesn't make sense that all countries controlled by Islamics are in a constant state of anarchy.

[Shastafarian]

Witnesses cast doubt on Israel's convoy raid account

Eyewitness accounts from ships raided by Israeli commandos have cast doubt on Israel's version of events that led to the deaths of at least 10 people.

German pro-Palestinian activist Norman Paech said he had only seen wooden sticks being brandished as troops abseiled on to the deck of the ship.The objects in the video were metal. And I'm talking about the video shot by people on the boat.


Israel says its soldiers were attacked with "knives, clubs and other weapons" and opened fire in self defence.

The raid led to widespread condemnation and the UN has called for an inquiry.
The six ships, carrying aid and campaigners, had sailed from Cyprus in a bid to break Israel's blockade of the Gaza Strip.

"This was not an act of self-defence," said Mr Paech, a politician, as he arrived back in Berlin wrapped in a blue blanket.lol yeah the soliders weren't being attacked


"Personally I saw two and a half wooden batons that were used... There was really nothing else. We never saw any knives.There may not have been knives. But from the video of the raid, this guy is clearly full of shit.


"This was an attack in international waters on a peaceful mission... This was a clear act of piracy," he added.

Mr Paech had been a passenger on the Turkish passenger ship Mavi Marmara where most, if not all, of the deaths occurred.

Fellow German activist Inge Hoeger said they had been on the ships "for peaceful purposes".

"We wanted to transport aid to Gaza," she said. "No-one had a weapon.":rollin


She added: "We were aware that this would not be a simple cruise across the sea to deliver the goods to Gaza. But we did not count on this kind of brutality."

Activist Bayram Kalyon, arriving back in Istanbul, had also been a passenger on the Mavi Marmara.

"The captain... told us 'They are firing randomly, they are breaking the windows and entering inside. So you should get out of here as soon as possible'. That was our last conversation with him."

Diplomatic sources in Ankara have said at least four of those killed were Turkish. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the assault was a "bloody massacre" and must be punished. He said Israel should not test Turkey's patience.
UN criticism

Further criticism of Israel came from UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon on Tuesday.

In an interview with the AFP news agency he said Israel's blockade of Gaza was responsible for the deadly raid.

"Had Israelis heeded to my call and to the call of the international community by lifting the blockade of Gaza, this tragic incident would not have happened," he said.

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen called on Israel to release people and boats it had seized.

He spoke after an emergency meeting of Nato ambassadors in Brussels called by Turkey. Renewed violence broke out in Gaza on Tuesday, with five Palestinians reportedly killed by Israeli fire.

Two Palestinian gunmen were shot dead after crossing the border in the south of the territory, a military spokesman said.

Three more people died in an Israeli strike in the north of Gaza, according to Gaza's emergency services. Israel said it carried out an air strike after two rockets were fired from Gaza.

Following the Israeli sea-born raid, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak ordered the border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip to be opened.

The Rafah crossing has been closed since 2007, although special medical cases are occasionally allowed through.

The Egyptian state news agency said the latest opening was to allow humanitarian aid through. It is not clear how long it will be kept open.

The UN Security Council issued a statement after deliberating through the night.

It said an investigation should be "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent". It also condemned the "acts" which led to the deaths.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Did your principles come into play when you omitted the rest of the article? Or was that just an honest mistake?


Barbara Plett, the BBC's UN correspondent in New York, said the statement was the result of a compromise between Turkey and the US, Israel's closest ally.

In its defence, Israel released footage showing soldiers landing on the Turkish ship and being apparently attacked.

Captain Aria Shaliker of the Israel Defense Forces, who was part of Monday's operation, says the commandos began the raids armed with paint ball guns.

"I was, myself, on one of the boats, the Israeli boats, approaching the flotilla," he told the BBC's World Today programme.

"It is true that the Israeli commander unit... came on board with paint ball weapons... in order to disperse [people] if there was violence. They were ready for a violent... demonstration on board the flotilla, especially on the big boat, the Marmara.

"No-one really expected that there would be such a violent outcome of what happened.
Continue reading the main story

The Security Council deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force during the Israeli military operation in international waters against the convoy sailing to Gaza

UN Security Council statement UN text on Israel convoy raid Send us your comments

"First, you know, the soldiers tried to disperse, but in the end when they were shot at, you know when there was shooting... from the other side, there's no other way than turning from paint ball to live ammunition."

Of the 679 activists brought to the Israeli port of Ashdod, only 50 agreed to be voluntarily deported and more than 30 are being treated in hospital for their injuries, reports the BBC's Wyre Davies in Jerusalem.

That means that almost 600 people, from several countries, are still being held in detention centres across Israel and being questioned by the authorities. And if you watch the close-up video of the raid, you can see the soldiers appear to be wielding paintball guns when they first land on the ship. I guess getting beaten repeatedly with metal objects tends to force people to go to live ammunition.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Is it standard procedure for "humanitarian" ships to have tons of weapons on them?

[Shastafarian]

then wait for me to post the link.

Why didn't you post the link with your original post? Because you didn't think I'd ask for it thereby seeing you omitted an entire section of the story?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Looks like I'm voting Republican next election. Democrats like sook should really alter their anti-Semitic agenda if they want any shot at winning the Jew vote like they always have.

[sook]

Is it standard procedure for "humanitarian" ships to have tons of weapons on them?

Tons of weapons? There were some weapons but you'll find that on any ship sailing to fend from pirates etc.

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Going by these premises, and no, you can't just jump to the last line since it goes in order, they had no right to board the ship

[ElNono]

Is it standard procedure for "humanitarian" ships to have tons of weapons on them?

Really?
You think Hamas was going to start firing metal rods at Israel if the ships arrived?

[Shastafarian]

Looks like I'm voting Republican next election. Democrats like sook should really alter their anti-Semitic agenda if they want any shot at winning the Jew vote like they always have.

Don't let disingenuous article-editors like him sway you. Most democrats I know try to be truthful and present the entire story.

[ElNono]

And before this takes a silly turn, I actually have no problem with what Israel did. I have a problem with WHEN they did it. It was extremely stupid.

[sook]

Looks like I'm voting Republican next election. Democrats like sook should really alter their anti-Semitic agenda if they want any shot at winning the Jew vote like they always have.

:lol

I vote independent or libertarian. I never vote democrat.

And you're right, the jew vote is huge, but i'm sure stupid jews are a rare occurrence and will be seeded out through natural selection.

its safe to say I've never met a stupid jew in my life, so I don't know about your case too well.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

There were some weapons

LEGALITY OF CONVOY RAID

* The UN Charter on the Law of the Sea says only if a vessel is suspected to be transporting weapons, or weapons of mass destruction, can it be boarded in international waters. Otherwise the permission of the ship's flag carrying nation must be sought.
* The charter allows for naval blockades, but the effect of the blockade on civilians must be proportionate to the effect on the military element for the blockade to be legally enforceable.
* A ship trying to breach a blockade can be boarded and force may be used to stop it as long as it is "necessary and proportionate".
* The Israeli Defense Forces say soldiers acted in self-defence.
* An investigation, either by the UN or by the ship's flag-carrier Turkey, is required to find if the use of force was proportionate to a claim of self defence.

Going by these premises, and no, you can't just jump to the last line since it goes in order, they had no right to board the ship


Why the fuck is Israel supposed to comply with every single UN policy when towel head countries violate them all the time? Once again the liberal double standard that holds Israel way above the standards dirka dirka countries are held to.

[Shastafarian]

Really?
You think Hamas was going to start firing metal rods at Israel if the ships arrived?

No but what were all rods they supposedly found on board for? As long as there are weapons on board, does it matter what they intend to do with them once they get to their destination?

[sook]

Why the fuck is Israel supposed to comply with every single UN policy when towel head countries violate them all the time? Once again the liberal double standard that holds Israel way above the standards dirka dirka countries are held to.

do you know why Israel is there today? The UN CREATED THEM LOL :lol:lol

Way to bite the hand that fed/created you.

And there is no justification in breaking the law stupid. This only shows your intelligence. You cant go off and do w.e you want

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This is just the latest example of bushleague sand ###### tactics. Similar to hiding behind civilians and suicide bombings, they hide weapons on a "humanitarian" ship so Israel is painted in a negative spotlight when they raid a ship that would be supplying weapons to people fighting Israel.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

do you know why Israel is there today? The UN CREATED THEM LOL :lol:lol

Way to bite the hand that fed/created you.

And there is no justification in breaking the law stupid. This only shows your intelligence. You cant go off and do w.e you want


Yet you seem to have no problem with Hamas "breaking the law" and suicide bombing Israeli areas.

lol liberal hypocrisy

[ElNono]

Why the fuck is Israel supposed to comply with every single UN policy when towel head countries violate them all the time? Once again the liberal double standard that holds Israel way above the standards dirka dirka countries are held to.

This is my problem. You can't be pushing for sanctions against Iran for non-compliance, then turn around and give the middle finger when it applies to you. Plus what sook posted is factually incorrect, but he managed to get you to admit your double standard.

[sook]

Why didn't you post the link with your original post? Because you didn't think I'd ask for it thereby seeing you omitted an entire section of the story?

sorry mr detective, i didn't know you thought of me to the point I would write such a well written article on the spot, with numerous sources checked.

If that wasn't the case you caught, now go back to patrolling your waters.

And if you weren't so stupid you would realize that the part of the article you posted doesn't change anything, i clicked on select all and copy and paste, thinking it would include the link.

But you are an internet detective, and like to carry these arguments more frequently then the substantial ones, as the pages in this thread, and this, once again show.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

This is my problem. You can't be pushing for sanctions against Iran for non-compliance, then turn around and give the middle finger when it applies to you. Plus what sook posted is factually incorrect, but he managed to get you to admit your double standard.

As long as Iran is allowed to violate rules then Israel is allowed to. Once the UN starts cracking down on sand ######s getting out of line, then I'm sure Israel will no longer feel the need to use force all the time.

[sook]

Yet you seem to have no problem with Hamas "breaking the law" and suicide bombing Israeli areas.

lol liberal hypocrisy

link please. where have i justified hamaas or a suicide bombing.


I never have, i just refuse to give in to a god you believe in.

[Shastafarian]

This is my problem. You can't be pushing for sanctions against Iran for non-compliance, then turn around and give the middle finger when it applies to you. Plus what sook posted is factually incorrect, but he managed to get you to admit your double standard.

What he bolded is straight from the BBC.

[ElNono]

As long as Iran is allowed to violate rules then Israel is allowed to. Once the UN starts cracking down on sand ######s getting out of line, then I'm sure Israel will no longer feel the need to use force all the time.

So you're cool with the UN imposing economic sanctions against Israel... you think that would be fair... gotcha.

[sook]

As long as Iran is allowed to violate rules then Israel is allowed to. Once the UN starts cracking down on sand ######s getting out of line, then I'm sure Israel will no longer feel the need to use force all the time.

/thread.

You are done. I think its safe to say that this one is out of your hand.

Better luck next time eh?


Excuse me while shasta comments on how I post articles and my link timings rather than my info.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

link please. where have i justified hamaas or a suicide bombing.


I never have, i just refuse to give in to a god you believe in.


I don't believe in god.

All you seem to talk about is being hutthurt over Israel trying to shut down Hamas (and you refer to that as murdering innocent people because you're too moronic to realize Hamas hides behind innocent people), so I'm just assuming you're a Hamas sympathizer.

[sook]

I don't believe in god.

All you seem to talk about is being hutthurt over Israel trying to shut down Hamas (and you refer to that as murdering innocent people because you're too moronic to realize Hamas hides behind innocent people), so I'm just assuming you're a Hamas sympathizer.

hamaas = not people on boats.

Comeon man. You're breaking down.

Stick to the argument at hand don't detract.

[ElNono]

I don't believe in god.

All you seem to talk about is being hutthurt over Israel trying to shut down Hamas (and you refer to that as murdering innocent people because you're too moronic to realize Hamas hides behind innocent people), so I'm just assuming you're a Hamas sympathizer.

FWIW, you think Palestine, Hamas, and Terrorists are all the same?
You don't think even a single one of those 1.5 million living in Gaza can possibly NOT be a terrorist?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

/thread.

You are done. I think its safe to say that this one is out of your hand.

Better luck next time eh?


Excuse me while shasta comments on how I post articles and my link timings rather than my info.


Seriously, why are you so sympathetic to Islamic terrorists? Do you have a camel jockey girlfriend or something?

[Shastafarian]

sorry mr detective, i didn't know you thought of me to the point I would write such a well written article on the spot, with numerous sources checked.lol So you didn't think I'd ask for a link. Got it.


If that wasn't the case you caught, now go back to patrolling your waters.

And if you weren't so stupid you would realize that the part of the article you posted doesn't change anything,It changes the story from the people on the ship...so yeah it does change something.

i clicked on select all and copy and paste, thinking it would include the link.But I'm the idiot? :rollin


But you are an internet detective, and like to carry these arguments more frequently then the substantial ones, as the pages in this thread, and this, once again show.go back and look at the first several pages of this thread. I've had more substantial arguments on one page than you have in the two threads you're posting in.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

FWIW, you think Palestine, Hamas, and Terrorists are all the same?
You don't think even a single one of those 1.5 million living in Gaza can possibly NOT be a terrorist?

They chose to be represented by terrorists therefore I label them as terrorists. If they hate the fact terrorists control their country, they should do something about it.

[Shastafarian]

Doesn't know how to copy and paste? Check
Doesn't know how to post a link? Check
Calls people names? Check
Proclaims an argument is over? Check

Care to go 5 for 5?

[ElNono]

They chose to be represented by terrorists therefore I label them as terrorists. If they hate the fact terrorists control their country, they should do something about it.

But, conversely, if they hated Israel so much why do you think they just stand pat there and don't actually attack Israel?
I would think you would notice if 1.5 million people attacked a country.

[Cry Havoc]

Doesn't know how to copy and paste? Check
Doesn't know how to post a link? Check
Calls people names? Check
Proclaims an argument is over? Check

Care to go 5 for 5?

You called him a troll and you're still responding to him, pages later. At this point, the onus is on you.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But, conversely, if they hated Israel so much why do you think they just stand pat there and don't actually attack Israel?
I would think you would notice if 1.5 million people attacked a country.



:lmao they don't attack Israel already? Suicide bombings and other terrorist acts aren't attacking?

The reason they don't attack Israel head on is because Israel's military would skull fuck them in real (not guerilla) warfare.

[Shastafarian]

You called him a troll and you're still responding to him, pages later. At this point, the onus is on you.

What onus? What are you even doing in this thread except trying to bust my balls? He calls people names and then gets defensive. He posts articles but omits any part that opposes his viewpoint. He doesn't post links. I'm pointing it out so maybe, just maybe he'll start changing his "principles". Do you wanna join the discussion?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lmao I don't read the rag head trash sook posts, does he seriously gerrymander information out of the articles he posts?

[Cry Havoc]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/01/gaza.raid.resolution/index.html?hpt=T1

(CNN) -- Israel began releasing activists detained from a Gaza aid flotilla Tuesday as humanitarian cargo aboard the ships was unloaded and taken into the blockaded Palestinian territory.

Israel's moves came as the Jewish state came under blistering international criticism, especially from Turkey, its closest Muslim ally.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused Israel of a "bloody massacre."

"We see clear murder taking place, and we see an aggressive country" that's not regretting this, Erdogan said Tuesday in a parliamentary address. "We're sick and tired of your lies. Be honest."

Also Tuesday, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak approved the opening of the Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt for humanitarian purposes, state-owned television reported.

The border crossing linking Egypt to Gaza will be kept open for only a few days, Palestinian officials said.

Meanwhile, three people died in an Israeli airstrike in the Gaza town of Beit Lahiya, Palestinian sources told CNN. The Israel Defense Force (IDF) confirmed it launched a strike that generated secondary explosions, suggesting that ammunition or explosives were in that area.

Israeli imposed a blockade of Gaza in 2007 after the militant Hamas took control of the Palestinian area and Egypt closed off the Rafah crossing. The aid flotilla challenged the blockade.

The IDF said the aid aboard the flotilla's three cargo ships had been transferred into Gaza through the Kerem Shalom border crossing, a main entry point used by Israel.

In the pre-dawn raid, Israeli soldiers rappelled onto the deck of the ships from a helicopter. The boarding of the ships took place in international waters more than 70 nautical miles (130 km) outside Israeli territorial waters, according to IHH, one of the flotilla organizers.

It is not clear how many people died. Israel put the number at nine, but did not release the names of those who died. The Free Gaza Movement, one of the groups that organized the six-ship convoy, said the fatalities numbered higher but did not offer an exact number.

Seven Israeli soldiers were wounded in the raid, the Israel Defense Forces said Monday. And Turkey was dispatching three planes to bring back 20 wounded citizens.

Israel described the flotilla as a "provocation" and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu canceled a scheduled meeting with Obama this week to return to Israel to manage the crisis.

Netanyahu said Tuesday that Israeli troops had faced a lynch mob.

Yigal Palmor, the Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman, told CNN on Tuesday that Israel regrets the casualties but said "the sole responsibility" for the violent incident lies with activists who have "chosen violence and confrontation."

Israel said that 600 activists in the flotilla were transported to Beer Sheva prison in southern Israel.

Activists directly involved in violence against Israeli soldiers will be charged accordingly, said an Israeli foreign ministry official, who asked not to be named because he is not authorized to speak to the media.

Forty-five activists agreed to identify themselves to Israeli authorities and are citizens of the following countries: Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Sweden, Turkey, the United States and the United Kingdom. They have now either left Israel or are on their way out of the country, an Israeli official said.

Those who remain detained are ones who have refused to identify themselves to Israeli immigration authorities, an Israeli Prison Authority spokesman told CNN. None have been placed under arrest, he said.

Among the ones who have refused to give their names are many foreigners, a police spokesman said.

How has the world reacted to the raid?

The process involved in deporting these latter protesters is more complicated because it requires the involvement of foreign diplomats, police said.

Citizens of Arab countries were being prepared for release, two diplomatic sources said Tuesday.

All Arab citizens besides Egyptians will be released from Beer Sheva and moved to the Jordanian border for deportation Tuesday evening, an Arab and an Israeli source said. Egyptian nationals will be transferred elsewhere, but it's unclear when. Israel shares a border with Egypt.

The attack sparked protests in several countries and brought condemnation worldwide.

The U.N. Security Council called for a "prompt, impartial, credible and transparent" investigation into Monday's raid by Israel.

"The Security Council deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries resulting from the use of force during the Israeli military operation in international waters against the convoy sailing to Gaza," the 15-member council said in a statement.

"The council in this context condemns those acts which resulted in the loss of at least 10 civilians and expresses condolences to the families," it said.

The ships were carrying more than 10,000 tons of aid and 600 passengers from more than 20 countries, according to the Free Gaza Movement.

About 1,000 people from an Islamic hard-line group rallied peacefully in Jakarta, Indonesia, on Tuesday to protest the Israeli action. Rallies were planned as well in New York and Chicago, Illinois.

Raid sparks demonstrations around the world

Despite strong condemnation of the deadly attack, especially from Turkey, the delivery of four Israeli drones to Turkey will not be interrupted, Turkish Defense Minister Vecdi Gonul said on Tuesday.

"We expect the remaining Herons to be delivered in June or July," Gonul said.

Some of the first accounts emerged Tuesday from eyewitnesses who were aboard several boats stormed by Israeli forces as they approached Gaza the day before.

Hanin Zoabi, a member of the Israeli parliament, was on board the Miva Marmara, the ship that was the scene of the confrontation between activists and Israeli soldiers. The Israeli Navy fired on the ships five minutes before commandos descended from ropes that dangled from helicopters, Zoabi said during a news conference in Nazareth, Israel. She said passengers on board the ship were unarmed.

Israel has said its forces found several weapons among the passengers on the Miva Marmara. Israel also has said that its forces started shooting after passengers on the Miva Marmara assaulted them.

Zoabi said the military operation lasted about an hour and that she saw five dead bodies in that time.

Israel said the goods that the convoy was carrying were being sent to their intended destination in Gaza. Palestinian officials confirmed that five trucks were allowed into Gaza, carrying wheelchairs.

President Barack Obama expressed "deep regret" at the deaths and "also expressed the importance of learning all the facts and circumstances around this morning's tragic events as soon as possible," the White House said Monday.

Why the raid will cause headaches for the United States

That did not impress Turkey's ambassador to the United States, Namik Tan, who called the U.S. response "sort of weak."

"Israel should not get away with this," Tan said.

---

[ElNono]

:lmao they don't attack Israel already? Suicide bombings and other terrorist acts aren't attacking?

Done by 1.5 million people? Link?


The reason they don't attack Israel head on is because Israel's military would skull fuck them in real (not guerilla) warfare.

Maybe. But you should be able to tell if 1.5 million people attacked.
I'm also pretty sure that Hamas didn't win the elections with 100% of the votes. You can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Shastafarian]

:lmao I don't read the rag head trash sook posts, does he seriously gerrymander information out of the articles he posts?

Yep. He quoted a BBC article but left out the part about the Israeli soldiers carrying paintball guns (imo there's video confirmation). He didn't post a link when he originally quoted the article because he hoped no one would notice he selectively edited it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

are you trying to say Gaza people aren't anti-Semitic?

Deny it all you want, most Muslims hate Jews. I hate Muslims in response. I'm not gonna be the peaceful guy for no reason.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yep. He quoted a BBC article but left out the part about the Israeli soldiers carrying paintball guns (imo there's video confirmation). He didn't post a link when originally quoted the article because he hoped no one would notice he selectively edited it.

lol sook stealing rag head tactics

[ElNono]

Yep. He quoted a BBC article but left out the part about the Israeli soldiers carrying paintball guns (imo there's video confirmation). He didn't post a link when originally quoted the article because he hoped no one would notice he selectively edited it.

They did use paintball guns initially. It was reported last night. They also had loaded guns with them too, as it was also reported.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

They did use paintball guns initially. It was reported last night. They also had loaded guns with them too, as it was also reported.

I carry a loaded gun in my car......are you saying it was wrong for them to have loaded guns boarding a boat that was acting hostile?

[Shastafarian]

are you trying to say Gaza people aren't anti-Semitic?

Deny it all you want, most Muslims hate Jews. I hate Muslims in response. I'm not gonna be the peaceful guy for no reason.

Give it time. You've probably just had bad experiences. I met a good amount of muslims in Israel that were friendly and didn't hate jews.

[ElNono]

are you trying to say Gaza people aren't anti-Semitic? Deny it all you want, most Muslims hate Jews. I hate Muslims in response. I'm not gonna be the peaceful guy for no reason.

So you basically hate every muslim, even though there's plenty of jews that are treated well in muslim countries (ie: Turkey). Now you're starting to sound pretty ignorant.

[ElNono]

Give it time. You've probably just had bad experiences. I met a good amount of muslims in Israel that were friendly and didn't hate jews.

I concur. Although not in Israel but in other parts of the world.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

So you basically hate every muslim, even though there's plenty of jews that are treated well in muslim countries (ie: Turkey). Now you're starting to sound pretty ignorant.


I wouldn't expect a Nazi harborer to understand that rabid anti-Semitism in today's society.

[Shastafarian]

I concur. Although not in Israel but in other parts of the world.

I went to the Arab Shukh (not sure of the english spelling) and the people were very nice. Then again I hear if you go at night you're likely to be stabbed and robbed.

[ElNono]

I wouldn't expect a Nazi harborer to understand that rabid anti-Semitism in today's society.

How am I a Nazi harborer? I thought we went through this already.

And I understand pretty well today's society. I have plenty of israeli and also muslim friends on 3 continents. Sure, there is anti-semitism. And I think that people is indeed ignorant. I don't quite understand how the same hateful preconceived notion when it doesn't apply to Israel is not just as ignorant.

[sook]

Yep. He quoted a BBC article but left out the part about the Israeli soldiers carrying paintball guns (imo there's video confirmation). He didn't post a link when he originally quoted the article because he hoped no one would notice he selectively edited it.

internet detective at his best once agian, not noticing i posted the link right after it wasn't there. I thought it was in my post.

I think its clear as day what you are trying to do, yo are trying to build your case on the fact that the link wasn't on there at first and i posted it right after, instead of countering factual information.

Bravo sir.

Your bullshit and spy tactics adulterate this entire board.

[sook]

lol sook stealing rag head tactics

do i need to start posting jew oven pics to equate myself to your posts? :lol:toast

Its actually quite funny, I welcome your insults knowing I've posted my pic on here before.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol gerrymandering articles to support your argument.

[sook]

How am I a Nazi harborer? I thought we went through this already.

And I understand pretty well today's society. I have plenty of israeli and also muslim friends on 3 continents. Sure, there is anti-semitism. And I think that people is indeed ignorant. I don't quite understand how the same hateful preconceived notion when it doesn't apply to Israel is not just as ignorant.

classic.


And let me say something.

Shasta, even though we don't agree and I feel a lot of your crap is bullshit. You have some substance backing you uip.


To be posting ignorant things like DOK just shows his character and what kind of person he is.

I thought you were cool when it came to basketball talk, but if you are really this bigoted its quite sad.

THere are fucked up people all over the world.

I'm not going to say all muslims are bad and call everyone that disagrees antisemetic.

[sook]

lol gerrymandering articles to support your argument.

my argument??!?!?! Wtf have you been posting?

That Israel doesn't need to obey international law and all muslim people deserve to die?

You call what you're making an argument? I actually have to respond to shasta but your ignorance is so blatant i just shake my head. :lol

[sook]

CNN right now, George Peck former U.S dipplomat on the ship painting an accurate picture.

Listen in everyone

[Shastafarian]

internet detective at his best once agian, not noticing i posted the link right after it wasn't there. I thought it was in my post.My bad. Your official position is you don't know how to copy, paste, and supply a link. That's a much better scenario

:lol


I think its clear as day what you are trying to do, yo are trying to build your case on the fact that the link wasn't on there at first and i posted it right after, instead of countering factual information.I countered the "factual" information in the portion of the article you actually posted.

And it took you 13 minutes to supply the link.


Bravo sir.

Your bullshit and spy tactics adulterate this entire board.
Thanks?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

my argument??!?!?! Wtf have you been posting?

That Israel doesn't need to obey international law and all muslim people deserve to die?

You call what you're making an argument? I actually have to respond to shasta but your ignorance is so blatant i just shake my head. :lol


I've been posting stuff that's doing a good job pissing you off, seeing that you're resorting to article gerrymandering.

[sook]

I've been posting stuff that's doing a good job pissing you off, seeing that you're resorting to article gerrymandering.

if you plan on pissing me off, don't count on it happening with all the benzos and weed I take everyday :lol.

It actually helps me look at things more clearly tbh

[angrydude]

Is the NY Post mainstream enough for you? There is obviously more going on here than the simple narrative you initially provided.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ



Turkish (blood)bath

By RALPH PETERS

Last Updated: 10:52 AM, June 1, 2010

Posted: 12:21 AM, June 1, 2010

Yesterday's "aid convoy" incident off the coast of Gaza wasn't about bringing humanitarian supplies to the terrorist-ruled territory. It wasn't even about Israel.

It was about Turkey's determination to position itself as the leading Muslim state in the Middle East.

Three ships of that six-ship pro-terror convoy flew Turkish flags and were crowded with Turkish citizens. The Ankara government -- led by Islamists these days -- sponsored the "aid" operation in a move to position itself as the new champion of the Palestinians.

And Turkish decision-makers knew Israel would have to react -- and were waiting to exploit the inevitable clash. The provocation was as cynical as it was carefully orchestrated.

The lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara, just happened to have an al-Jazeera TV crew on board to film Israel's response. Ironically, the early videos would've been counterproductive, had world leaders and journalists not been programmed to blame everything on Israel.

Those videos showed Israeli commandos rappelling onto the ship with both hands on the rope (making it rather hard to use a weapon), yet activists claimed the Israelis opened fire as they descended.

Purely by coincidence, dozens of "peace activists" waited with sharpened iron bars, clubs, slingshots -- and rifles. Of course, the nine dead in the melee were all Israel's victims.

The first wave of Israeli commandos reportedly were armed only with paintball rounds for crowd control. Inspect those videos of maddened peaceniks assaulting the soldiers as they landed on deck. You don't see any Israelis pointing rifles -- they're fending off blows.

But the claims of pro-terrorist "peace advocates" are given instant credence.

The US government's initial response was restrained, but Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu understandably canceled his meeting with President Obama, scheduled for today. Bibi's got an emergency on his hands back home, as well-organized protests sweep the Middle East.

Meanwhile, the Europeans and UN bonzes rage at Israel with unseemly relish, but ignore the luxury lifestyles of Gaza's insider elite and the fact that no Palestinian's going hungry. The Israelis had even offered to transfer the aid aboard those ships to the Palestinians -- as long as they could inspect it.

But neither the activists nor the Turkish government wanted a negotiated outcome. This was a stunt from the start.

Now, as we wait to see if Hamas and Hezbollah up the ante, the world ignores Turkey's decisive role in this fiasco.

The US and the European Union cling to the fiction that Turkey's a "westernized Muslim democracy." But Turkey's moving to the east as fast as the Islamist leaders of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) can drag it there.

Turkish leaders visit the West and sing, "Democracy, democracy, democracy!" We coo and clap. Then they go east and cry, "Islam, Islam, Islam!" And we insist they don't mean it.

Then there's Turkey's unfortunate NATO membership. Since the rise of its Islamists, Turkey has been a Trojan horse, not an ally. What happens now if Ankara provokes a military confrontation? How would we respond, given NATO's mutual-defense agreements?

The madcap agenda of Turkey's current rulers is to create a 21st-century version of the Ottoman Empire. Turks even mutter about the caliphate -- headed for centuries by the Turkish sultan. This is explosive stuff. And the Turks are playing with matches.

But we've obstinately ignored every warning sign. First, our "ally" stabbed us in the back on the eve of Operation Iraqi Freedom, denying our troops their planned routes into Iraq. Then the Turkish media intensified its anti-American fantasies.

Headscarves became de rigeur for the wives of top officials in Ankara as the Turks made mischief in Iraq. Emulating the history-obliterating Saudis, the Turks began work on the vast Ilisu Dam -- which will permanently submerge pre-Islamic and Kurdish archaeological sites of incalculable value. (The Bamiyan Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban were of comparatively minor interest to researchers.)

Then, just last month, the Turks moved to provide the Iranian regime with cover for its nuclear program. And we still didn't get it.

The most dramatic transformation in the Middle East since the fall of the shah is playing out before us. And we can't see behind the mask of the "plight of the Palestinians" (a key Obama administration concern).

In yesterday's confrontation, Israel behaved clumsily. The peace activists behaved savagely. The Turks behaved cynically. The world reacted predictably.

And Washington scratched its head.

Ralph Peters' latest book is "Endless War."

[ChumpDumper]

Is the NY Post mainstream enough for you? There is obviously more going on here than the simple narrative you initially provided.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJA pro-Israel op ed in a Rupert Murdoch media outlet?

Wow!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Is the NY Post mainstream enough for you? There is obviously more going on here than the simple narrative you initially provided.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/turkish_blood_bath_Jean7yjj5Salz75brRSsMJ


Ralph Peters
Ralph Peters has been a Post Opinion columnist since 2002. He is also Fox News' first Strategic Analyst. Ralph served for over two decades in the U.S. Army, as an enlisted man and officer, before retiring in 1998 to write and speak freely. He has experience in over 70 countries and is the author of 24 books, including novels, an adventure-travel memoir and works on strategy. While his home is at the Post, he also has editorial or contributor relationships with Armed Forces Journal, Armchair General Magazine and USAToday. He writes from the Washington, D.C. area, but remains, at heart, a proud coalcracker from Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania.


:lmao

[ElNono]

35 different nationalities among the 600 civilians in the boats. Far from being a Turkey-only move.

[Wild Cobra]

35 different nationalities among the 600 civilians in the boats. Far from being a Turkey-only move.
True, but of the 581 passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara, abound 400 were Turkish. The crew was probably from Comoros.

[Man About Town]

Islam is an extremely radical religion.

Pretty much all religion is radical.

[Man About Town]

I can't believe how goddamned dumb the Israelis are. Let's table for the moment the fact that the blockade itself is illegal and inhumane. As a matter of simply preventing the flotilla from penetrating the blockade, the IDF could've accomplished its objective without going all Kent State and resorting to lethal force. I don't think the potential Pandora's Box that the Israelis have opened is worth the disproportionate use of force in subduing the ship. They could've stationed a gunboat in front of the flotilla forcing it to stop or slow down. Or a frogman could've disabled the propeller and rudder with a small explosive. The immobilized ship could then be towed wherever the Israelis wanted.

I understand that the people on the boats are not pacifists in the mold of Gandhi or MLK, but they have a right to defend themselves from being boarded and subdued when they are in international waters. And I have a problem with the argument that no construction materials of any kind can enter Gaza because of their potential conversion into crude mortar rockets that are occasionally lobbed into Israeli territory. Those mortar rockets do not pose an existential threat to Israel, but because of it the Gazan population can't rebuild their infrastructure or have indoor plumbing? A toothbrush can be filed down into a shiv, so why not impose a ban on dental hygiene while you're at it? What a crude and irrational government Israel has.

[ElNono]

True, but of the 581 passengers aboard the Mavi Marmara, abound 400 were Turkish. The crew was probably from Comoros.

Which makes 181 not Turkish. What's your point?