Pac-10 looking to add 6 Big-12 teams to create Super Conference

[tlongII]

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/

From Orangebloods.com

by Chip Brown

The Big 12 meetings are reaching their climax Thursday and Friday in Kansas City with the presidents and chancellors from the league coming together to discuss pressing issues, including sites for championships. (Look for the Big 12 title game in football to stay at Cowboys Stadium for the next three years.)

But when it comes to possible realignment, the Big 12 meetings may be premature.

Why?

Because it appears the Pac-10, which has its meetings in San Francisco starting this weekend, is prepared to make a bold move and invite Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Colorado to join its league, according to multiple sources close to the situation.

Left out would be Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Nebraska and Missouri.

Messages left with Pac-10 officials by Orangebloods.com on Thursday were not immediately returned.

The six teams from the Big 12 would be in an eight-team division with Arizona and Arizona State. The other eight-team division would consist of USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State.

The thought is the Big 16 (or whatever they decide for the name) would start its own television network that could command premium subscriber dollars from cable providers on par with the Big Ten Network and pay out upwards of $20 million to each of the 16 schools in TV revenue.

Such a merger between the six Big 12 schools and the Pac-10 would build a conference with seven of the country's top 20 TV markets (Los Angeles, Dallas, San Francisco, Houston, Phoenix, Seattle and Sacramento). And such a league would likely command attention from every cable system in the country and command a premium rate from every cable system west of the Mississippi.

Those projected TV revenues would double the current payouts of roughly $9 million to Big 12 and Pac-10 members. If the Big 16 reached its projections, the league would also surpass the SEC's projected payout of $17 million per school reached in a 15-year TV deal with ABC/ESPN and CBS signed in 2008.

According to the Omaha World-Herald, the TV revenues paid out to the Big 12 in 2007 (the last year revenue was made public) were as follows:

1. Texas: $10.2 million
2. Oklahoma: $9.8 million
3. Kansas: $9.24 million
4. Texas A&M: $9.22 million
5. Nebraska: $9.1 million
6. Missouri: $8.4 million
7. Texas Tech: $8.23 million
8. Kansas State: $8.21 million
9. Oklahoma State: $8.1 million
10. Colorado: $8.0 million
11. Iowa State: $7.4 million
12. Baylor: $7.1 million

AN OFFER THAT CAN'T BE REFUSED?

An invitation from the Pac-10 will be hard for the six Big 12 schools being targeted not to consider. Why? Because Fox Cable Networks (a division of News Corporation), which serves as the chief operating partner of the successful Big Ten Network, appears ready to make the Big 16 Network happen.

Fox is the chief television partner of the Pac-10 currently, and its subsidiary Fox Sports Net currently holds the rights to the Big 12 cable package, which comes up for bid in the spring of 2011. The Pac-10 also has television deals with Fox up for re-bid at the same time.

The Big Ten has shown the conference network model works. According to published reports, the TV revenue paid out to Big Ten schools jumped from $14 million for the fiscal year 2006-07 to $22 million for the fiscal year 2007-08.

A&M TO THE SEC?

There does appear to be some resistance to an invitation from the Pac-10 from at least one of the six schools being targeted - Texas A&M. According to a source close to the situation, A&M officials have had serious conversations with the Southeastern Conference about the Aggies joining that league.

In Thursday's editions of the Houston Chronicle, A&M athletic director Bill Byrne was asked if the SEC is an option for the Aggies should the Big 12 break up, and he said, "It might be. You know what? It might be."

Byrne, the athletic director at Oregon from 1984-92 before going to Nebraska, has been openly critical of having student-athletes travel west, only to return home at odd hours.

Byrne has used the example of when the Aggies had their men's and women's basketball teams in Spokane and Seattle for the NCAA Tournament in March and couldn't get back to College Station until 6:30 a.m. with students having to attend 8 a.m. classes.

It's no coincidence Byrne's example included cities in the Pac-10's dominant time zone.

There is also reason to believe Oklahoma could be enamored with joining the SEC. But that does not appear to be an option Texas officials would be willing to consider. There is a sense among UT officials the academics in the SEC are not on par with Texas.
If A&M and Oklahoma were to splinter off and join the SEC, the Pac-10 would obviously have to revise its invite list.

Any move the SEC made in terms of expansion would likely cause the 15-year, $3 billion in TV contracts the SEC landed with ABC/ESPN ($2.2 billion) and CBS ($825 million) to be re-opened for negotiation.

The question would be how much more money the SEC could command in TV revenue without starting its own network?

A&M is starved for cash because its athletic department fell $16 million into debt and received a loan from the school's general fund to pay it off, causing a rift between the university and athletics. That rift, in part, led to A&M school president Elsa Murano to resign under pressure because she was pushing for the money to be paid back and was met with resistance by A&M system chancellor Mike McKinney, whose sons played football at A&M, and possibly even Texas Gov. Rick Perry, an Aggie who is still very involved in the school's politics.

Surprisingly, the Legislature doesn't appear to be an obstacle for the state's two biggest schools to split off into separate conferences, although that is not an ideal situation for either school. If A&M opted to head to the SEC and Texas opted to go elsewhere, there is a very good chance Texas would no longer play the Aggies in any sports.

NEW OPTIONS

So after this weekend, there will be a new option for half the schools in the Big 12 to find a new home.

There also appears to be a chance Nebraska will not get invited to the Big Ten, which means the only school the Big 12 stands to lose to the Big Ten is Missouri. The Big Ten and its efforts to move south, thus far, have been rebuffed by Texas, which doesn't like the logistics of serving as the southern boundary of the Big Ten.

So the Big Ten continues to focus on Notre Dame and is seriously considering whether to invite Missouri as well as three schools from the Big East (Rutgers, UConn and either Syracuse or Pittsburgh) . Such a move would likely collapse the Big East, where Notre Dame plays its sports other than football, and might cause the Irish to finally acquiesce to joining the Big Ten.

If that happened, there would be a strong likelihood that four super conferences of roughly 16 teams could emerge: the Big Ten, the SEC, a collaboration of the Big 12 and Pac-10 as well as a collaboration of the Big East and ACC.

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe warned against that when the Big 12 meetings started this week in Kansas City.

"I think it's very serious," Beebe said. "And I think it's something that we better be very careful about. If we come to a day where there are four 16-member conferences, then it's going to be a sad day, and it's going to be very difficult to not have more legal issues and interventions. The pressures will be immense for certain programs to be successful, (and) there will be less chances to win conference championships and national championships."

CAN THE BIG 12 SURVIVE?

Believe it or not, it's still Texas' goal to hold the Big 12 together, and simply create a non-conference football scheduling alliance with the Pac-10 that would help generate a big-money, cable TV deal for both leagues.

Such a move would continue to allow Texas to pursue its own network and create a unique, potentially lucrative revenue stream UT wouldn't have to share. If Texas ended up as one of the six schools going off to join forces with the Pac-10, it would likely have to forgo its own network.

Larry Scott, the Pac-10 commissioner, told Orangebloods.com recently his schools are "very interested" in exploring a conference network and that it would have to be an "all rights in situation."

Can Texas convince the rest of the league the Big 12 is the way to go? Would all the wandering eyes like Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Nebraska and Missouri commit to staying in the Big 12 immediately if Texas committed to staying in the Big 12 in light of the Pac-10 offer?

Missouri probably would not. The Tigers already have one foot in the Big Ten. But Nebraska has no assurance it will be invited to the Big Ten and could be left completely out of the power conference structure if it's not careful. Texas A&M doesn't have the resources to start its own network and doesn't appear eager to be in a league that allows Texas to generate added revenue. The same might be true for OU.

So the plot thickens. The Pac-10, which is hamstrung by geography and would love to have its sports aired into the Central time zone, wants a merger. And it appears ready to upstage the Big Ten in this game of musical conferences. No one would have its own network in the Big 16, which could compel A&M and OU to accept an invitation.

The Pac-10 doesn't want to waste time by going out on dates with the Big 12 with a non-conference football scheduling alliance. It wants to take half of the Big 12 and get married. Now, we'll see, who, if anyone, meets them at the altar.

[tlongII]

This would be freaking AWESOME! I can just imagine having my Beaver tickets and seeing us play USC, Oregon, and Texas all in the same season!

[Blake]

I guess if enough people throw out enough rumors of expansion one of them will eventually stick.

I like the idea, but I'm not holding my breath.

[fyatuk]

No one wants poor Baylor....

[ChumpDumper]

http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/902/666084.jpg

[MajorMike]

Report: OU, OSU to receive Pac-10 invitations

By Staff Reports
Published: 6/3/2010 2:48 PM
Last Modified: 6/3/2010 5:58 PM

Oklahoma and Oklahoma State could be invited to join the Pac-10 Conference, according to a report online today.

According to a story on orangebloods.com - the Rivals.com University of Texas site - the Pac-10 is ready to invite Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and four others from the Big 12.

The World's Dave Sittler is in Kansas City at the Big 12 meetings and spoke with the athletic directors at OSU and OU about the report.

OSU's Mike Holder offered only a two-word comment – one in English, one in Spanish: "No habla (speak)." He declined further comment before leaving the InterContinental Hotel and heading back to Stillwater after three days of Big 12 spring meetings.

OU's Joe Castiglione's reaction to the report was an incredulous, "Come on." Castiglione, who has repeatedly said OU will "have options" if the Big 12 disbands, said the Sooners have not had any discussions with any other conference about membership.

Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott told the Associated Press his league has not offered invitations to any schools, including the six Big 12 institutions mentioned in the website story.

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/sportsextra/OU/article.aspx?subjectid=92&articleid=20100603_92_0_TeBgos946710&rss_lnk=93

[ChumpDumper]

http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/902/666084.jpg

[JMarkJohns]

I mentioned this like three months ago.

EDIT: Hahaha... I guess it was only a month ago, almost exact. I guess it's been a long month! Felt a lot longer...

[JMarkJohns]

My thoughts are the same. I get it. But the Arizona teams are getting the short end of the deal, getting placed in the same division as Texas/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State... that's going to kill their chances at a Division, let alone Conference Title in football, and will make for one of the toughest divisions for basketball as well (assuming Oklahoma doesn't get too many sactions and can rebound from their recent issues.

[Blake]

http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/902/666084.jpg

I'll bite....whats up with the pic with him grinning like a hyena?

[MajorMike]

I don't like it, but if the B12 is indeed going to be everyone's cookiejar to rob, might as well force the hand yourself. 7 of the top 20 markets, plus OKC, Tucson, San Antonio, Portland. It would make any other conf in America envious, for certain.

[NFO]

It will be pretty interesting to see where all the teams land once all the dust settles.

I think in the scenario mentioned in the article that would force a lot of people's hands if the Pac-10 were to add 6 teams.

No doubt the SEC would respond as I would think the Big 10 would have to as well, which might force ND's hand into joining a conference.

I guess only time will tell.


Other expansion news FWIW

Big Ten expansion: E-mails hint eyes are upon Texas | BuckeyeXtra (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2010/06/04/e-mails-hint-eyes-are-upon-texas.html?sid=101)

[CubanMustGo]

Everyone wants UT ... what a surprise, since they're the most profitable program in all of college sports.

[Kermit]

By the end of this, Texas will have offers from the Pac 10, the Big 10, and the SEC. Must be nice.

[tlongII]

Of course everyone wants Texas. It's a great school with lots of money. I hope they join the Pac-10 because I believe it's a good match academically as well as in athletics.

[ChumpDumper]

I'll bite....whats up with the pic with him grinning like a hyena?He's happy everyone is regurgitating his blog.

[Kermit]

He's happy everyone is regurgitating his blog.

He's been talking about it all fucking day. They're making some good points though. Listen if you can.

http://www.espnaustin.com/shows/bottom_line.php

[Blake]

http://vmedia.rivals.com/uploads/902/666084.jpg

he looks like he is getting ready to audition for Grease

[DesignatedT]

I would prefer to go to the SEC even if it means splitting with Texas. Id prefer A&M have another Texas team join them in the conference also. If Texas and A&M move to the SEC that would be dream situation but Texas doesn't seem to be interested in the SEC as much.

[NFO]

bring back the swc and be done with it

shit

and while we are at it some one should bring ND football back to being relevant.

[NFO]

as long as they stay away from the big 10

Yeah because that has worked in the past 20 years. When was ND's last quality bowl game win, and beating Hawaii in Hawaii doesn't count.

[Whisky Dog]

I would prefer to go to the SEC even if it means splitting with Texas. Id prefer A&M have another Texas team join them in the conference also. If Texas and A&M move to the SEC that would be dream situation but Texas doesn't seem to be interested in the SEC as much.

Because academically the sec is inferior and Texas is looking to be in a tier 1 laden conference like the big/pac 10s

[DesignatedT]

Because academically the sec is inferior and Texas is looking to be in a tier 1 laden conference like the big/pac 10s

Whatever the reasons are... Texas can fit in with the pac-10. The city of Austin can fit in with those cities in California but College Station doesn't. Imagine the corp and the conservative Aggies travel up to cal-berkely and all those other liberal schools.

I really hope A&M will go to the SEC because that's where we fit in. I don't think that means A&M/Texas has to stop their rivalry either. FSU/UF, GA/GT are a couple of examples of schools that keep the rivalry by playing non-conference.

"pacific 16" just seems like a lame idea to me and I have no desire to go play ucla, stanford and schools like that.

[Thompson]

Because academically the sec is inferior and Texas is looking to be in a tier 1 laden conference like the big/pac 10s

Why does it matter that much? Is this just Texas' excuse because they don't want to go to a conference loaded with more powerhouse schools (and consequently higher risk that they'll lose a game or two a year, making it harder to reach the BCS championship game)?

Serious question, I'm not really trying to knock Texas. The only reason I can think of off the top of my head is a roundabout version of the above (lower academic standards at some of the other conference schools might make it difficult for Texas to recruit equal talent, leading to increased difficulty in maintaining their spot near the top athletically). That and 'prestige,' though I can't see how the other schools in the conference would matter as much as your own academic program in and of itself.

[DesignatedT]

Why does it matter that much? Is this just Texas' excuse because they don't want to go to a conference loaded with more powerhouse schools (and consequently higher risk that they'll lose a game or two a year, making it harder to reach the BCS championship game)?

Serious question, I'm not really trying to knock Texas. The only reason I can think of off the top of my head is a roundabout version of the above (lower academic standards at some of the other conference schools might make it difficult for Texas to recruit equal talent, leading to increased difficulty in maintaining their spot near the top athletically). That and 'prestige,' though I can't see how the other schools in the conference would matter as much as your own academic program in and of itself.

Yes...

[redraiderinfiji]

I say lets go....I am not saying that TECH would beat up anyone in the PAC-10, but definitely they would improve.

I am all for super conferences.....but I really think that a playoff system is more important!

[redraiderinfiji]

the horns, the aggies, and the raiders would make that conference unreal....

[MaNu4Tres]

I guess if enough people throw out enough rumors of expansion one of them will eventually stick.

I like the idea, but I'm not holding my breath.

[NFO]

my last quality bowl win was when i stuffed my peepee in your mom's cooter

notre dame class rings are good for pulling filthy milf tail

That is the usual Notre Dame fan response when asked about there best bowl win over the past 17 years. No surprise there.

[Whisky Dog]

Why does it matter that much? Is this just Texas' excuse because they don't want to go to a conference loaded with more powerhouse schools (and consequently higher risk that they'll lose a game or two a year, making it harder to reach the BCS championship game)?

Serious question, I'm not really trying to knock Texas. The only reason I can think of off the top of my head is a roundabout version of the above (lower academic standards at some of the other conference schools might make it difficult for Texas to recruit equal talent, leading to increased difficulty in maintaining their spot near the top athletically). That and 'prestige,' though I can't see how the other schools in the conference would matter as much as your own academic program in and of itself.

I understand your point, and from my fan's point of view I'd love to stay the biggest fish in the pond by far, but in terms of conference alignment the politics, money situation, and academic standing from a research and funding perspective are far more important than football or anything that fans care about. The reason Texas was interested in the big 10 were the AAU and CIC funding advantages. The Pac 10, with academic powers such as Stanford and Cal-Berkley as well as the possibility of a huge tv contract encompasing the two largest tv market states, is also a very interesting conference in terms of funding and academics. When it comes down to it the SEC want Texas but Texas doesn't feel the academic direction of the conference members aligns with their own. Basically Fla and Vandy are the only big players there and the conference doesn't have a great academic standing overall. Here's an article from the SEC side that explains the basics of how politics and money/academics play a much bigger role than football:

(This is the fifth part in an on-going series examining the possibility of SEC expansion from a business perspective.)

Mention the words “conference expansion” and fans start dreaming of ways to create the world’s greatest football league.Luck_The_Fakers_ “This team is great and it’s in the Southeast.”Luck_The_Fakers_ “Well this team would be a natural rival with Georgia and Florida.”Luck_The_Fakers_ “This team won a national title this decade.”

That kind of talk is fun.Luck_The_Fakers_ But it’s not the kind of chatter you’re likely to hear when a group of university presidents get together.Luck_The_Fakers_ And ultimately, any decision on SEC expansion will be made by the league’s 12 presidents, not by Mike Slive, the league’s coaches, or its fans.

Money will be key.Luck_The_Fakers_ Securing future funds, future fanbases (ie: population bases) and future power will all be goals.

And football?Luck_The_Fakers_ Well, it’s part of the equation, too, but it’s not the 95% of the deal that some in the media would have you believe.Luck_The_Fakers_

Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said this week that academics shouldn’t be overlooked in the current expansion frenzy.

“You’re hitting on the most important part of this deal that people are actually missing.Luck_The_Fakers_ Our presidents are in it not because of football.Luck_The_Fakers_ Let’s be clear.Luck_The_Fakers_ And I agree with them.”Luck_The_Fakers_ Adding more schools from the AAU — more on that group in a minute — “would take us to a whole other level” as a conference.

That’s not just a Big Ten view.Luck_The_Fakers_ Former ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan recently discussed just how much of a role academics played in his league’s expansion back in the early 90s.

“I think if you would have asked the people at Florida State about joining, there were some who probably thought, well, (the ACC is) not good enough in football.Luck_The_Fakers_ But if you ask some people in the faculty, they’d say, ‘We get to be in the same league as Duke and Virginia and Carolina and Georgia Tech!”

Even football coaches understand the importance of finding good academic “fits” for a league.Luck_The_Fakers_ “At Wake Forest, we want to be a great football team, we want to win as many games every year as we possibly can, but we can’t sacrifice academics,” Jim Grobe said.Luck_The_Fakers_ “And it’s good to compete against other schools that have the same goals and aspirations.”

In other words, while you and your buddies are debating the merits of Florida State or Texas A&M as potential SEC dance partners, you’d best not be forgetting about academics.


The AAU and The CIC

When you read the letters AAU, you probably think of a mid-summer basketball league.Luck_The_Fakers_ But in the Big Ten, those three letters mean something completely different.

Each of the Big Ten’s 11 schools are members of the Association of American Universities.Luck_The_Fakers_ That’s a collection of 63 of the biggest research-oriented schools in North America.

According to the AAU, the 110-year-old organization “focuses on national and institutional issues that are important to research-intensive universities, including funding for research, research and education policy, and graduate and undergraduate education.”

Compared to the research spending of top-flight major universities, even the biggest athletic budgets pale in comparison.Luck_The_Fakers_ In 2008, the University of Florida was one of only three schools to top $100 million in athletic spending.

Think $100 million is a lot of cash to spend?Luck_The_Fakers_ Multiply it by five and you have what UF spent in 2008 on research projects.Luck_The_Fakers_ In fact, Florida receives more than $550 million annually in sponsored research funding.

Presidents pay attention to those kinds of dollars.

In addition to focusing on AAU membership, the Big Ten has also created the Committee on Institutional Cooperation.Luck_The_Fakers_ The CIC, according to its director, was designed to “save money, solve problems, share assets and build opportunity for faculty and researchers.”Luck_The_Fakers_

All eleven Big Ten schools — as well as original member the University of Chicago — benefit from this consortium.Luck_The_Fakers_ Imagine the ability to buy in bulk.Luck_The_Fakers_ The CIC has also digitized millions of books that can be shared across the conference via fiber optic network.

“By almost any metric — investment in research, number of top ten academic programs, national rankings and enrollment — the CIC universities are very similar,” said Barbara McFadden Allen, the group’s director.Luck_The_Fakers_ “This helps us move together on projects and initiatives in ways that would be difficult for a more disparate group.”

If and when the Big Ten expands, Allen said the league will “be bringing in a university and not a team.”

Michael Hogan, the incoming president at the University of Illinois, has thought about possible Big Ten membership while serving at his last school, the University of Connecticut.

“Part of what appealed to me about it was, there’s an academic counterpart to the Big Ten, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, which is based there in Urbana (Illinois).Luck_The_Fakers_ It brings together presidents and provosts to share ideas on the academic side, including sharing programs that make them widely available to all students in the Big Ten.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s a nice match of the academic and sports part of the institution all across the board in the Big Ten.”

Starting to get the picture?Luck_The_Fakers_ The presidents of the SEC do.Luck_The_Fakers_ They’re surely aware that their own league lags behind the Big Ten in terms of academic reputation.

According to the latest rankings provided by “US News & World Report,” the average Big Ten university ranks at #50.Luck_The_Fakers_ The average SEC school comes in at #91.Luck_The_Fakers_ On average, Big Ten schools receive and spend more than $500 million in research funding each year.Luck_The_Fakers_ In the SEC research funding reaches only about $227 million per school.

Then there’s the whole 11 to two lead the Big Ten holds in AAU memberships.Luck_The_Fakers_ Only Florida and Vanderbilt are in that club from the SEC.

In short, the Big Ten is a league of massive, big budgeted schools that focus on graduate degrees and academic research.Luck_The_Fakers_ The schools of the SEC are solid, spend well in research, but focus more on the undergraduate side of things.Luck_The_Fakers_

That’s something for fans to think about when trying to hash out which schools are most likely to receive SEC invitations (if any).

The SEC’s presidents are trying to take steps to close the gap on the Big Ten academically.

Part of ESPN’s television deal with the SEC forced the network to partner with the league in the creation of the SEC Academic Network.Luck_The_Fakers_

Launched last August, the online network features “content from every (SEC) institution ranging from research, innovation and economic development to community partnerships, civic engagement and service.”

“The commitment to highlight the accomplishments of SEC member institution academic programs was a key component of our new television agreements,” Slive said.Luck_The_Fakers_ “This network will provide our 12 institutions with the ability to create and distribute academic and other non-athletic programming through the world on a regular and full-time basis.”

In other words, it’s a PR wing designed to push and improve the SEC’s academic brand.Luck_The_Fakers_ But good advertising isn’t the only step the league’s presidents are taking.

In 2005 the SEC created the Southeastern Conference Academic Consortium.Luck_The_Fakers_ Consider it a very young version of the Big Ten’s CIC.

According to a 2006 press release, the consortium was created to “bolster teaching, research, public service and other educational activities” at SEC schools.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s goal is to “provide opportunities for schools to work together to enhance and share academic resources.Luck_The_Fakers_ All 12 SEC member schools will work together, outside of the athletic realm, to create a cooperative environment for all students.”

If you’re bored to tears, you shouldn’t be.Luck_The_Fakers_ This is how conferences expand.Luck_The_Fakers_ This is how schools decide which league they will join.Luck_The_Fakers_ Take Texas, for example.


Targeting Texas

Make no mistake, Texas is the prize that the SEC has its eye on.Luck_The_Fakers_ The Big Ten is looking toward the Lone Star State, too.Luck_The_Fakers_ And Washington’s athletic director Scott Howard recently said, “I’d be surprised if our (Pac-10) office is not in contact with them.Luck_The_Fakers_ I’m sure those conversations have happened and are taking place.”

Texas is big.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s got the television markets, alumni base, name brand, huge facilities and A-1 athletic programs that conference commissioners lust after.

The school also fancies itself to be a Harvard on the Colorado River, which appeals to university presidents.

To hear former SEC commissioner Harvey Schiller tell it, Texas was ticketed to join the league back in the late 1980s.Luck_The_Fakers_ “I spent some time with (Texas athletic director) DeLoss Dodds and he really wanted to join the conference.”Luck_The_Fakers_ Unfortunately politicians got involved and the deal fell through.Luck_The_Fakers_ That’s how Schiller recalls it anyway.

Folks in Texas remember things a bit differently.Luck_The_Fakers_ Former University of Texas president Robert Berdahl told MySanAntonio.com in 2007 that at the time he was unimpressed with the SEC’s academic reputation.

“We were quite interested in raising academic standards and the Southeastern Conference had absolutely no interest in that.”

If the former Texas prez is to be believed, we might not be talking about the SEC possibly wooing the Longhorns now had the league agreed to boost its academic standards some 20 years ago.

Academics play a role, folks.Luck_The_Fakers_ A big role.


Politics Play A Big Role, Too

Go back to the early ’90s and everyone seems to have a different take on how that wave of expansion took place.

According to Schiller, the SEC didn’t want Texas A&M and balked at a “take ‘em both or you get none” stance from the Texas state legislature.Luck_The_Fakers_

Meanwhile, Vince Dooley was pushing for Georgia Tech to earn an SEC bid.Luck_The_Fakers_ Florida supposedly wanted both Florida State and Miami to join.

As you know, in the end, Arkansas and South Carolina were the only schools to come on board.

But in Texas, the powerbrokers say that Texas A&M and LSU officials had been angling to bring the Aggies into the league as early as the late ’80s.Luck_The_Fakers_ As the story goes, after talks with Miami fell apart, LSU athletic director Joe Dean called A&M AD John David Crow and told him that LSU would sponsor an entry bid from A&M.

Dean said at the time that he believed Texas was “headed north” to the Big Ten or Big Eight (now the Big 12) and that A&M was the “most logical addition to the SEC.”

Unfortunately Texas legislators weren’t going to let the state’s two biggest schools split.Luck_The_Fakers_ So that meant a Texas and Texas A&M package deal to the Big Eight.Luck_The_Fakers_ But the politicians weren’t done yet.

Baylor and Texas Tech had powerful allies throughout the state legislature and, according to some, threats were made to Texas and A&M officials.Luck_The_Fakers_ If they tried to jump from the old Southwest Conference without the Bears and Red Raiders riding shotgun, both schools would see their state funding cut.

Presto Chango, the Big Eight grew not to 10 teams but to 12.Luck_The_Fakers_

The lesson here is that in many cases, targeting just one of a state’s schools can lead to political headaches.Luck_The_Fakers_ There’s been much talk that Texas and Texas A&M would still be bound together by politicos today (though officials from both schools seem to be fine with the idea of going in different directions).Luck_The_Fakers_

History would tell us that any deal for Texas might not just be a combo package with A&M but a super-sized meal that includes Baylor and Texas Tech, too.

Want Oklahoma?Luck_The_Fakers_ You’ll likely hear a howl from Oklahoma State grads in that state’s legislature.Luck_The_Fakers_ Ditto Kansas and Kansas State.Luck_The_Fakers_ Double ditto in the case of Virginia Tech and Virginia.


The above information isn’t sexy.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s not fun.Luck_The_Fakers_ And it doesn’t make for good sports bar conversation.Luck_The_Fakers_

But it will play a role in any expansion decision the SEC makes.

Academics and politics will be involved.Luck_The_Fakers_ Just take note of what Missouri Governor Jay Nixon told the Associated Press this spring:Luck_The_Fakers_ “I’m not going to say anything bad about the Big 12, but when you compare Oklahoma State to Northwestern, when you compare Texas Tech to Wisconsin, I mean you begin looking at educational possibilities that are worth looking at.”

A governor ripping one conference while talking up another.Luck_The_Fakers_ Academics and politics, folks.Luck_The_Fakers_ Academics and politics.

(To read Part One of this series, click here.Luck_The_Fakers_ For Part Two, click here.Luck_The_Fakers_ For Part Three, click here.Luck_The_Fakers_ And for Part Four, click here.)


http://www.mrsec.com/2010/05/expounding-on-expansion-academics-and-politics-before-specifics/

[Kermit]

I understand your point, and from my fan's point of view I'd love to stay the biggest fish in the pond by far, but in terms of conference alignment the politics, money situation, and academic standing from a research and funding perspective are far more important than football or anything that fans care about. The reason Texas was interested in the big 10 were the AAU and CIC funding advantages. The Pac 10, with academic powers such as Stanford and Cal-Berkley as well as the possibility of a huge tv contract encompasing the two largest tv market states, is also a very interesting conference in terms of funding and academics. When it comes down to it the SEC want Texas but Texas doesn't feel the academic direction of the conference members aligns with their own. Basically Fla and Vandy are the only big players there and the conference doesn't have a great academic standing overall. Here's an article from the SEC side that explains the basics of how politics and money/academics play a much bigger role than football:

(This is the fifth part in an on-going series examining the possibility of SEC expansion from a business perspective.)

Mention the words “conference expansion” and fans start dreaming of ways to create the world’s greatest football league.Luck_The_Fakers_ “This team is great and it’s in the Southeast.”Luck_The_Fakers_ “Well this team would be a natural rival with Georgia and Florida.”Luck_The_Fakers_ “This team won a national title this decade.”

That kind of talk is fun.Luck_The_Fakers_ But it’s not the kind of chatter you’re likely to hear when a group of university presidents get together.Luck_The_Fakers_ And ultimately, any decision on SEC expansion will be made by the league’s 12 presidents, not by Mike Slive, the league’s coaches, or its fans.

Money will be key.Luck_The_Fakers_ Securing future funds, future fanbases (ie: population bases) and future power will all be goals.

And football?Luck_The_Fakers_ Well, it’s part of the equation, too, but it’s not the 95% of the deal that some in the media would have you believe.Luck_The_Fakers_

Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said this week that academics shouldn’t be overlooked in the current expansion frenzy.

“You’re hitting on the most important part of this deal that people are actually missing.Luck_The_Fakers_ Our presidents are in it not because of football.Luck_The_Fakers_ Let’s be clear.Luck_The_Fakers_ And I agree with them.”Luck_The_Fakers_ Adding more schools from the AAU — more on that group in a minute — “would take us to a whole other level” as a conference.

That’s not just a Big Ten view.Luck_The_Fakers_ Former ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan recently discussed just how much of a role academics played in his league’s expansion back in the early 90s.

“I think if you would have asked the people at Florida State about joining, there were some who probably thought, well, (the ACC is) not good enough in football.Luck_The_Fakers_ But if you ask some people in the faculty, they’d say, ‘We get to be in the same league as Duke and Virginia and Carolina and Georgia Tech!”

Even football coaches understand the importance of finding good academic “fits” for a league.Luck_The_Fakers_ “At Wake Forest, we want to be a great football team, we want to win as many games every year as we possibly can, but we can’t sacrifice academics,” Jim Grobe said.Luck_The_Fakers_ “And it’s good to compete against other schools that have the same goals and aspirations.”

In other words, while you and your buddies are debating the merits of Florida State or Texas A&M as potential SEC dance partners, you’d best not be forgetting about academics.


The AAU and The CIC

When you read the letters AAU, you probably think of a mid-summer basketball league.Luck_The_Fakers_ But in the Big Ten, those three letters mean something completely different.

Each of the Big Ten’s 11 schools are members of the Association of American Universities.Luck_The_Fakers_ That’s a collection of 63 of the biggest research-oriented schools in North America.

According to the AAU, the 110-year-old organization “focuses on national and institutional issues that are important to research-intensive universities, including funding for research, research and education policy, and graduate and undergraduate education.”

Compared to the research spending of top-flight major universities, even the biggest athletic budgets pale in comparison.Luck_The_Fakers_ In 2008, the University of Florida was one of only three schools to top $100 million in athletic spending.

Think $100 million is a lot of cash to spend?Luck_The_Fakers_ Multiply it by five and you have what UF spent in 2008 on research projects.Luck_The_Fakers_ In fact, Florida receives more than $550 million annually in sponsored research funding.

Presidents pay attention to those kinds of dollars.

In addition to focusing on AAU membership, the Big Ten has also created the Committee on Institutional Cooperation.Luck_The_Fakers_ The CIC, according to its director, was designed to “save money, solve problems, share assets and build opportunity for faculty and researchers.”Luck_The_Fakers_

All eleven Big Ten schools — as well as original member the University of Chicago — benefit from this consortium.Luck_The_Fakers_ Imagine the ability to buy in bulk.Luck_The_Fakers_ The CIC has also digitized millions of books that can be shared across the conference via fiber optic network.

“By almost any metric — investment in research, number of top ten academic programs, national rankings and enrollment — the CIC universities are very similar,” said Barbara McFadden Allen, the group’s director.Luck_The_Fakers_ “This helps us move together on projects and initiatives in ways that would be difficult for a more disparate group.”

If and when the Big Ten expands, Allen said the league will “be bringing in a university and not a team.”

Michael Hogan, the incoming president at the University of Illinois, has thought about possible Big Ten membership while serving at his last school, the University of Connecticut.

“Part of what appealed to me about it was, there’s an academic counterpart to the Big Ten, the Committee on Institutional Cooperation, which is based there in Urbana (Illinois).Luck_The_Fakers_ It brings together presidents and provosts to share ideas on the academic side, including sharing programs that make them widely available to all students in the Big Ten.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s a nice match of the academic and sports part of the institution all across the board in the Big Ten.”

Starting to get the picture?Luck_The_Fakers_ The presidents of the SEC do.Luck_The_Fakers_ They’re surely aware that their own league lags behind the Big Ten in terms of academic reputation.

According to the latest rankings provided by “US News & World Report,” the average Big Ten university ranks at #50.Luck_The_Fakers_ The average SEC school comes in at #91.Luck_The_Fakers_ On average, Big Ten schools receive and spend more than $500 million in research funding each year.Luck_The_Fakers_ In the SEC research funding reaches only about $227 million per school.

Then there’s the whole 11 to two lead the Big Ten holds in AAU memberships.Luck_The_Fakers_ Only Florida and Vanderbilt are in that club from the SEC.

In short, the Big Ten is a league of massive, big budgeted schools that focus on graduate degrees and academic research.Luck_The_Fakers_ The schools of the SEC are solid, spend well in research, but focus more on the undergraduate side of things.Luck_The_Fakers_

That’s something for fans to think about when trying to hash out which schools are most likely to receive SEC invitations (if any).

The SEC’s presidents are trying to take steps to close the gap on the Big Ten academically.

Part of ESPN’s television deal with the SEC forced the network to partner with the league in the creation of the SEC Academic Network.Luck_The_Fakers_

Launched last August, the online network features “content from every (SEC) institution ranging from research, innovation and economic development to community partnerships, civic engagement and service.”

“The commitment to highlight the accomplishments of SEC member institution academic programs was a key component of our new television agreements,” Slive said.Luck_The_Fakers_ “This network will provide our 12 institutions with the ability to create and distribute academic and other non-athletic programming through the world on a regular and full-time basis.”

In other words, it’s a PR wing designed to push and improve the SEC’s academic brand.Luck_The_Fakers_ But good advertising isn’t the only step the league’s presidents are taking.

In 2005 the SEC created the Southeastern Conference Academic Consortium.Luck_The_Fakers_ Consider it a very young version of the Big Ten’s CIC.

According to a 2006 press release, the consortium was created to “bolster teaching, research, public service and other educational activities” at SEC schools.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s goal is to “provide opportunities for schools to work together to enhance and share academic resources.Luck_The_Fakers_ All 12 SEC member schools will work together, outside of the athletic realm, to create a cooperative environment for all students.”

If you’re bored to tears, you shouldn’t be.Luck_The_Fakers_ This is how conferences expand.Luck_The_Fakers_ This is how schools decide which league they will join.Luck_The_Fakers_ Take Texas, for example.


Targeting Texas

Make no mistake, Texas is the prize that the SEC has its eye on.Luck_The_Fakers_ The Big Ten is looking toward the Lone Star State, too.Luck_The_Fakers_ And Washington’s athletic director Scott Howard recently said, “I’d be surprised if our (Pac-10) office is not in contact with them.Luck_The_Fakers_ I’m sure those conversations have happened and are taking place.”

Texas is big.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s got the television markets, alumni base, name brand, huge facilities and A-1 athletic programs that conference commissioners lust after.

The school also fancies itself to be a Harvard on the Colorado River, which appeals to university presidents.

To hear former SEC commissioner Harvey Schiller tell it, Texas was ticketed to join the league back in the late 1980s.Luck_The_Fakers_ “I spent some time with (Texas athletic director) DeLoss Dodds and he really wanted to join the conference.”Luck_The_Fakers_ Unfortunately politicians got involved and the deal fell through.Luck_The_Fakers_ That’s how Schiller recalls it anyway.

Folks in Texas remember things a bit differently.Luck_The_Fakers_ Former University of Texas president Robert Berdahl told MySanAntonio.com in 2007 that at the time he was unimpressed with the SEC’s academic reputation.

“We were quite interested in raising academic standards and the Southeastern Conference had absolutely no interest in that.”

If the former Texas prez is to be believed, we might not be talking about the SEC possibly wooing the Longhorns now had the league agreed to boost its academic standards some 20 years ago.

Academics play a role, folks.Luck_The_Fakers_ A big role.


Politics Play A Big Role, Too

Go back to the early ’90s and everyone seems to have a different take on how that wave of expansion took place.

According to Schiller, the SEC didn’t want Texas A&M and balked at a “take ‘em both or you get none” stance from the Texas state legislature.Luck_The_Fakers_

Meanwhile, Vince Dooley was pushing for Georgia Tech to earn an SEC bid.Luck_The_Fakers_ Florida supposedly wanted both Florida State and Miami to join.

As you know, in the end, Arkansas and South Carolina were the only schools to come on board.

But in Texas, the powerbrokers say that Texas A&M and LSU officials had been angling to bring the Aggies into the league as early as the late ’80s.Luck_The_Fakers_ As the story goes, after talks with Miami fell apart, LSU athletic director Joe Dean called A&M AD John David Crow and told him that LSU would sponsor an entry bid from A&M.

Dean said at the time that he believed Texas was “headed north” to the Big Ten or Big Eight (now the Big 12) and that A&M was the “most logical addition to the SEC.”

Unfortunately Texas legislators weren’t going to let the state’s two biggest schools split.Luck_The_Fakers_ So that meant a Texas and Texas A&M package deal to the Big Eight.Luck_The_Fakers_ But the politicians weren’t done yet.

Baylor and Texas Tech had powerful allies throughout the state legislature and, according to some, threats were made to Texas and A&M officials.Luck_The_Fakers_ If they tried to jump from the old Southwest Conference without the Bears and Red Raiders riding shotgun, both schools would see their state funding cut.

Presto Chango, the Big Eight grew not to 10 teams but to 12.Luck_The_Fakers_

The lesson here is that in many cases, targeting just one of a state’s schools can lead to political headaches.Luck_The_Fakers_ There’s been much talk that Texas and Texas A&M would still be bound together by politicos today (though officials from both schools seem to be fine with the idea of going in different directions).Luck_The_Fakers_

History would tell us that any deal for Texas might not just be a combo package with A&M but a super-sized meal that includes Baylor and Texas Tech, too.

Want Oklahoma?Luck_The_Fakers_ You’ll likely hear a howl from Oklahoma State grads in that state’s legislature.Luck_The_Fakers_ Ditto Kansas and Kansas State.Luck_The_Fakers_ Double ditto in the case of Virginia Tech and Virginia.


The above information isn’t sexy.Luck_The_Fakers_ It’s not fun.Luck_The_Fakers_ And it doesn’t make for good sports bar conversation.Luck_The_Fakers_

But it will play a role in any expansion decision the SEC makes.

Academics and politics will be involved.Luck_The_Fakers_ Just take note of what Missouri Governor Jay Nixon told the Associated Press this spring:Luck_The_Fakers_ “I’m not going to say anything bad about the Big 12, but when you compare Oklahoma State to Northwestern, when you compare Texas Tech to Wisconsin, I mean you begin looking at educational possibilities that are worth looking at.”

A governor ripping one conference while talking up another.Luck_The_Fakers_ Academics and politics, folks.Luck_The_Fakers_ Academics and politics.

(To read Part One of this series, click here.Luck_The_Fakers_ For Part Two, click here.Luck_The_Fakers_ For Part Three, click here.Luck_The_Fakers_ And for Part Four, click here.)


http://www.mrsec.com/2010/05/expounding-on-expansion-academics-and-politics-before-specifics/

That Eliot thing is fucking annoying.

[tlongII]

What is with that Luck_The_Fakers_ thing??? You can't even read the shit.

[Whisky Dog]

I have no f'n idea. That macro went renegade and is triggering when there isn't even an ellio t mentioned.

If u want to skim it the link would be better

[TFloss32]

Looks like Colorado is supposed to make a major announcement tomorrow. I think they're trying to undercut the efforts of Baylor to get into the Pac-10 and beat them to the punch. There is another option for Pac-10 expansion that would include adding Colorado and Utah.

In addition to that, the Nebraska boards are blowing up saying that going to the Big 10 is a done deal. Take it FWIW. I don't believe it.

[DesignatedT]

Looks like Colorado is supposed to make a major announcement tomorrow. I think they're trying to undercut the efforts of Baylor to get into the Pac-10 and beat them to the punch. There is another option for Pac-10 expansion that would include adding Colorado and Utah.

main priority is to add the 5 big 12 south teams - baylor and +colorado. If texas ends up going big 10 or something then im sure pac 10 has other options with teams like utah or byu or something.

[TFloss32]

main priority is to add the 5 big 12 south teams - baylor and +colorado. If texas ends up going big 10 or something then im sure pac 10 has other options with teams like utah or byu or something.

A Big XII South + Colorado merger is the Pac-10's priority. However, Colorado knows that the Texas Legislature is getting in their way by wanting to replace them with Baylor. If Colorado gets an official invitation from the Pac-10, they're not going to wait around. They'll bolt if given the chance.

[DesignatedT]

A Big XII South + Colorado merger is the Pac-10's priority. However, Colorado knows that the Texas Legislature is getting in their way by wanting to replace them with Baylor. If Colorado gets an official invitation from the Pac-10, they're not going to wait around. They'll bolt if given the chance.

Oh yeah for sure. It will be hard to split up the Texas teams. They are all tied together somehow. IMO (if the big 12 does dissolve) I would love for Texas to join the Big 10 and A&M to join the SEC while keeping there annual rivalry game out of conference. (much like FL/FLST and GA/GATECH

[Whisky Dog]

Oh yeah for sure. It will be hard to split up the Texas teams. They are all tied together somehow. IMO (if the big 12 does dissolve) I would love for Texas to join the Big 10 and A&M to join the SEC while keeping there annual rivalry game out of conference. (much like FL/FLST and GA/GATECH

That would leave too many ooc rivalry games for Texas and under that scenario the rivalry dies. They would drop aggie before sooner.

I would hate aggie to sec because that could open up sec to Texas hs recruiting goldmine. I want aggie tagging alongside us with tech/Baylor becoming irrelevent.

[IceColdBrewski]

Baylor stalking the Pac 10.

http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2010/06/08/baylor-courts-pac-10-ignoring-court-order/

[Blake]

They would drop aggie before sooner.

no way.


I want aggie tagging alongside us with tech/Baylor becoming irrelevent.

huh? other than 2008 for a quick eye blink, was Tech ever relevant?

[Blake]

Baylor stalking the Pac 10.

http://barkingcarnival.fantake.com/2010/06/08/baylor-courts-pac-10-ignoring-court-order/

...that had such potential to be good...

[Whisky Dog]

no way.



huh? other than 2008 for a quick eye blink, was Tech ever relevant?

They've been in a relevant conference. They can come with us to the Pac whatever or toil in the sunbelt, I don't care. I just don't want Aggie opening up the Texas talent to SEC schools.

Why do you think they would drop the RRSO with OU before Aggie?

[Blake]

Why do you think they would drop the RRSO with OU before Aggie?

the RRSO is by far the greater rivalry and one of the greatest in college sports, and it would be a very difficult decision if it came down to having to pick one or the other....

but I think in the end, the powers that be in higher places in Texas would make sure that the in-state game stays.
I'm not sure how many Texas legislators graduated from OU or have close ties to that school, but I'm guessing it's not very many.

Having the two state flagship universities not play each other on a yearly basis would cause an in-state rift of sorts, imo.

[NFO]

the RRSO is by far the greater rivalry and one of the greatest in college sports, and it would be a very difficult decision if it came down to having to pick one or the other....

but I think in the end, the powers that be in higher places in Texas would make sure that the in-state game stays.
I'm not sure how many Texas legislators graduated from OU or have close ties to that school, but I'm guessing it's not very many.

Having the two state flagship universities not play each other on a yearly basis would cause an in-state rift of sorts, imo.

Would you still feel the same way if A&M wanted to go to the SEC and Texas wanted to go to a different conference or would the Texas legislators insist that the two schools be in the same conference even though they could schedule the game OOC.

It amazes me how much power the Texas legislators have in these expansion scenarios.

[Kermit]

Would you still feel the same way if A&M wanted to go to the SEC and Texas wanted to go to a different conference or would the Texas legislators insist that the two schools be in the same conference even though they could schedule the game OOC.

It amazes me how much power the Texas legislators have in these expansion scenarios.

They will never not be in the same conference. It makes too much sense for them to go together and the Pac 10, Big 10 and SEC would take both in a heartbeat.

[NFO]

They will never not be in the same conference.

By friend in Austin told me that he heard yesterday on KLBJ the jeff ward show that gov Perry (an aggie) prefers the SEC for A&m. He is supposedly meeting with UT & AtM presidents by the end of the week...

No way IMO that UT goes to the SEC.

I would think that it does make sense for the two to be in the same conference, but if one wants to go somewhere the other does not would the Texas legislators allow that.

With UT and S&M in the same conference (assuming that Oklahoma wasn't in that new conference) then UT could schedule the RRSO like it did before the formation of Big 12 as an OOC game.



the Pac 10, Big 10 and SEC would take both in a heartbeat.

True, but taking the rest of the Big 12 South may/could be a hinderance.

[Kermit]

By friend in Austin told me that he heard yesterday on KLBJ the jeff ward show that gov Perry (an aggie) prefers the SEC for A&m. He is supposedly meeting with UT & AtM presidents by the end of the week...

No way IMO that UT goes to the SEC.

I would think that it does make sense for the two to be in the same conference, but if one wants to go somewhere the other does not would the Texas legislators allow that.

With UT and S&M in the same conference (assuming that Oklahoma wasn't in that new conference) then UT could schedule the RRSO like it did before the formation of Big 12 as an OOC game.




True, but taking the rest of the Big 12 South may/could be a hinderance.

The meeting is tomorrow to make sure they're on the same page. From the sound of it, Nebraska is going to the Big 10. They've accepted an invitation (Omaha Newspaper). This Pac 10 thing is probably going to happen. The last thing Texas wants is A&M to go to the SEC without them. That's why I think they will fight tooth and nail to make sure that Aggy stays chained. If they split, Texas will be free to go to the Big 10 alone IMO.

[DesignatedT]

The meeting is tomorrow to make sure they're on the same page. From the sound of it, Nebraska is going to the Big 10. They've accepted an invitation (Omaha Newspaper). This Pac 10 thing is probably going to happen. The last thing Texas wants is A&M to go to the SEC without them. That's why I think they will fight tooth and nail to make sure that Aggy stays chained. If they split, Texas will be free to go to the Big 10 alone IMO.

I seriously would like to see this happen. I am not a fan at all of traveling to cal-berkeley and stanford and schools like that. The city of Austin might fit in with that crowd and the University of Texas might fit in with it also but College Station and TAMU doesn't. Of course by no means can the rivalry between Texas and A&M die but if there is an agreement that can be made to play a non-conference game with Texas in the Big 10 and A&M in the SEC than I would prefer this in a heartbeat. The game can still be on Thanksgiving and everything and I'm sure the 2 conferences wouldn't mind working around that. Both would move on to better things and conferences that suit the school, culture, and cities while leaving Tech/Baylor and co. to figure out something on their own. (pipe dream I know but this is just my opinion being a student at TAMU and a lot feel the same way). Problem is the legislature sadly wont let it happen

[TFloss32]

The announcement that Colorado made had nothing to do with leaving the Big XII but rather scholarship reductions placed upon them by the NCAA for failing to meet academic progress rates.

Looks like the Big XII has put forth a date of June 14th (especially for Missouri, Nebraska and Colorado) to decide if the the conference will stay together. Like Kermit said above, a reporter from the Omaha World-Herald is saying he expects Nebraska to leave for the Big 10 as early as Friday (even though a formal invitation hasn't been made public). If the Big XII decides the conference can be salvaged after losing one or two teams, they apparently will target BYU and Air Force as replacements. A lot still hinges on Notre Dame's decision.

Another big problem with taking Baylor instead of Colorado...lots of Pac-10 officials dislike the fact that Baylor has strong religious ties.

[Kermit]

I seriously would like to see this happen. I am not a fan at all of traveling to cal-berkeley and stanford and schools like that. The city of Austin might fight in with that crowd and the University of Texas might fit in with it also but College Station and TAMU doesn't. Of course by no means can the rivalry between Texas and A&M die but if there is an agreement that can be made to play a non-conference game with Texas in the Big 10 and A&M in the SEC than I would prefer this in a heartbeat. The game can still be on Thanksgiving and everything and I'm sure the 2 conferences wouldn't mind working around that. Both would move on to better things and conferences that suit the school, culture, and cities while leaving Tech/Baylor and co. to figure out something on their own. (pipe dream I know but this is just my opinion being a student at TAMU and a lot feel the same way). Problem is the legislature sadly wont let it happen

Traveling to California would be infinity better than traveling to Iowa. And you would only have to do it once a year.

[DesignatedT]

Traveling to California would be infinity better than traveling to Iowa. And you would only have to do it once a year.

not a big fan of California. Would much rather travel to Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Gainesville,Tuscaloosa to watch a football game :lol

[Kermit]

not a big fan of California. Would much rather travel to Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Gainesville,Tuscaloosa to watch a football game :lol

Aggie in California is going to be awesome on the unintentional comdey scale.

[IronMexican]

Is College station that lame or something?

[Blake]

Would you still feel the same way if A&M wanted to go to the SEC and Texas wanted to go to a different conference or would the Texas legislators insist that the two schools be in the same conference even though they could schedule the game OOC.

It amazes me how much power the Texas legislators have in these expansion scenarios.

I would think that if there were enough A&M "leaders" that wanted the SEC bad enough, it would happen, even if UT felt the same way about leaving for the Pac 10.

What I also think is that legislators on both sides cannot do without an annual game between the two flagships schools, no matter what conferences they are in.

[Blake]

If the Big XII decides the conference can be salvaged after losing one or two teams, they apparently will target BYU and Air Force as replacements. A lot still hinges on Notre Dame's decision.


Air force? really?

you have a link?

[Blake]

Traveling to California would be infinity better than traveling to Iowa. And you would only have to do it once a year.

A&M has been complaining about the recent basketball tourney in Washington.

[Kermit]

A&M has been complaining about the recent basketball tourney in Washington.

Why?

And Air Force has been identified according to Chip Brown. BYU as well.

[Blake]

Why?


One of the six Big 12 teams mentioned in the OrangeBloods.com report might resist joining the Pac-10. According to the report, Texas A&M AD Bill Byrne is concerned about his student-athletes traveling to the West and returning to College Station at odd hours.

The Aggies' men's and women's basketball teams both traveled to Washington state for the NCAA Tournament this year. According to the report, they couldn't return to campus until 6:30 a.m., and some student-athletes had 8 a.m. classes.

The Aggies might join the SEC, instead. According to the report, Texas A&M officials have had serious conversations with the conference. When asked by the Houston Chronicle this week if the SEC would be an option for the Aggies if the Big 12 broke up, Byrne responded, "It might be. ... You know what? It might be........

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2010-06-03/pac-10-reportedly-ready-invite-six-big-12-teams





And Air Force has been identified according to Chip Brown. BYU as well.

BYU I'd be ok with.

Air Force no.

[Kermit]

Ah, the ol' class defense. $10 million increase in t.v. revenue ought to take care of that complaint.

[IronMexican]

aggie out, colorodo in.

[IronMexican]

or baylor. whatever

[Thompson]

aggie out, colorodo in.

Aggies, Colorado.

Seriously Texas? These are the 'academic' types you want to associate with?

[Blake]

Ah, the ol' class defense. $10 million increase in t.v. revenue ought to take care of that complaint.

Air Force will bring in a $10 million increase?

BYU is interesting because they already have their own network that I flip past every now and then.

[Kermit]

Air Force will bring in a $10 million increase?

BYU is interesting because they already have their own network that I flip past every now and then.

Pac 10 money, Blake.

[DesignatedT]

Aggies to SEC. Make it happen byrne

[jb4g]

Does Aggie really have the balls to cut the cord and go to the SEC? I think its a much better fit for them then that Pac-10/16...I would be impressed if they made that move.

[Blake]

Pac 10 money, Blake.


If the Big XII decides the conference can be salvaged after losing one or two teams, they apparently will target BYU and Air Force as replacements.

Who is the 'they' here?

Big 12 or Pac 10?

To me, it's the Big 12.

[Homeland Security]

not a big fan of California. Would much rather travel to Baton Rouge, Knoxville, Gainesville,Tuscaloosa to watch a football game :lol


Aggies, Colorado.

Seriously Texas? These are the 'academic' types you want to associate with?


Aggies to SEC. Make it happen byrne
Aggies are such fucking retarded inbred children. Third-rate dolts.

Credit to Texas for seeing the big picture.

The Big 10 schools and the University of Chicago set up a consortium amongst themselves to collaborate for research grants. So far your typical Big 10 school has cleared an extra $200 million in grants by being part of the CIC. Texas wants in on that.

Big picture for Texas is that for the state to be a lasting economic power, it needs to beef up its university system big time in research and graduate studies. This is key to binge at the forefront of technology so that the state's businesses can be cutting edge, and so the best talent will already be in the state. California pioneered such a program starting in the 1950's and 1960's, which was the catalyst behind their economic glory days.

And now the Texas schools have the opportunity standing before them to join up with several of the schools which built that model, and learn from the Californians in order to surpass California, while clearing potentially billions in research grants for the state over the next generation. Yes, give the University of Texas credit. Its leadership gets it. It has the vision.

But Aggie apparently is afraid he'll catch teh gay if he stands too close to Berkeley or something. It's not a "cultural fit." Well, maybe Aggie has a point. Probably Aggie would be a better fit in a culture of academic mediocrity, and if so, then the Texas Legislature needs to slash his funding and give it to a school with the ambition to take part in making Texas the leading state in the country while Aggie contents himself to play slapass with the boys in Baton Rouge.

[Homeland Security]

The only reason Aggie is a "Tier I University" in the first place is because its partisans were playing "me, too" with Texas in the Legislature. His heart isn't really in it.

[Thompson]

And now the Texas schools have the opportunity standing before them to join up with several of the schools which built that model, and learn from the Californians in order to surpass California, while clearing potentially billions in research grants for the state over the next generation. Yes, give the University of Texas credit. Its leadership gets it. It has the vision.


Texas aspires to surpass mighty California, the 'Greece' of the United States? :lmao

[JMarkJohns]

If Chip Brown can be trusted that it's a done deal for 2012-2013 season and the Pac-10 is going to become the Big-16 or SouthWest-16 (or whatever), I'm loving it for basketball, but a bit disappointed for Arizona football. They are now in the same division as Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, etc... that's going to be brutal. a .500 season is a great get at that point. You would get a Stoops' bros rivalry as well, so that would be nice.

[tlongII]

I just hope Baylor doesn't get in.

[Blake]

I'm loving it for basketball, but a bit disappointed for Arizona football. They are now in the same division as Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, etc... that's going to be brutal. a .500 season is a great get at that point.

so basically nothing changes for Arizona except for the names on the front of the jerseys.

[JMarkJohns]

so basically nothing changes for Arizona except for the names on the front of the jerseys.

They have gone to back to back bowl games. They finished 2nd in the Pac last year. They were ranked for a good chunk of the season. And they did all this with a 1st-year QB and without their 2nd-round talent TE.

They were on the rise. This gives them two seasons to try and net that elusive Rose Bowl appearance before realistically kissing their chances completely good bye.

Anymore, people expect 7-5/8-4 seasons.ad Gronkowski returned for his senior year, many were expecting 9-3, if not 10-2 this season as they host their toughest games. It's not great, but a hell of a lot better than where they were six seasons ago.

So, insult understood, no... it's different. But a Big-12 homer might not realize such.

[DesignatedT]

Aggies are such fucking retarded inbred children. Third-rate dolts.

Credit to Texas for seeing the big picture.

The Big 10 schools and the University of Chicago set up a consortium amongst themselves to collaborate for research grants. So far your typical Big 10 school has cleared an extra $200 million in grants by being part of the CIC. Texas wants in on that.

Big picture for Texas is that for the state to be a lasting economic power, it needs to beef up its university system big time in research and graduate studies. This is key to binge at the forefront of technology so that the state's businesses can be cutting edge, and so the best talent will already be in the state. California pioneered such a program starting in the 1950's and 1960's, which was the catalyst behind their economic glory days.

And now the Texas schools have the opportunity standing before them to join up with several of the schools which built that model, and learn from the Californians in order to surpass California, while clearing potentially billions in research grants for the state over the next generation. Yes, give the University of Texas credit. Its leadership gets it. It has the vision.

But Aggie apparently is afraid he'll catch teh gay if he stands too close to Berkeley or something. It's not a "cultural fit." Well, maybe Aggie has a point. Probably Aggie would be a better fit in a culture of academic mediocrity, and if so, then the Texas Legislature needs to slash his funding and give it to a school with the ambition to take part in making Texas the leading state in the country while Aggie contents himself to play slapass with the boys in Baton Rouge.

:rolleyes please.......

and I hope you aren't implying or really think the all mighty Texas Longhorns are making their decision strictly on academics........

[DesignatedT]

*
o Clay Travis
o Senior NCAA Writer

In the conference expansion race, the University of Texas is the hot chick at the bar whose dad is a multimillionaire. Everyone wants her. Texas A&M is her less attractive younger sister who you would think was really hot if she wasn't the sister of the hot chick, a solid eight who is invisible standing next to a spectacular 10. Meanwhile, Baylor and Texas Tech are the ugly, cross-eyed step-sisters, they'd have no pull if it weren't for their proximity to the attractive sisters. Presently it appears that the Pac-10 is so in love with Texas that they're willing to take all four schools to get into the rich Texas television market. But let's not kid anyone: without Texas no one is coming after Baylor and Texas Tech and asking them to join a new conference.

At all.

So far, most speculation has focused on the four Texas schools as a package deal. And lost amid all the posturing associated with whether Baylor or Colorado will get the final offer to join the Big 12 has been this question: What if Southeastern Conference commissioner Mike Slive pulled a fast one and managed to recruit away Texas A&M from the three other Texas schools leaving for the Pac-16 (or whatever name you like best)?

Think that's far-fetched?

I don't.
Here's why: Mike Slive is smart.

While he refused to address what schools, if any, he'd had expansion conversations with, it's no secret that the SEC has long sought to enter the lucrative Texas market in the past. But Slive would be aware that the last time the SEC tried to expand into Texas, the state legislature raised issues with the move. He would know that adding Texas and Texas A&M by themselves, as every conference would prefer, wasn't likely to happen due to political pressure.
Full Expansion Coverage
• Nebraska's Move to Happen Thursday
• Travis: SEC Should Target A&M
• Lapointe: Tradition Loses
• Don't Ignore Colorado
• Big 10, Notre Dame Talking
• White: Pac-10 Needs to Expand
• Outside Influences on Notre Dame
• Kansas' Calls, MWC Waits
• WAC Also Waiting Around
• Whitley: All About Money, Not Fans
• Pac-10 Free to Pursue Expansion
• Nebraska, Mizzou Have Deadline
• Pac-10/Big 12: Partnership or Raid
• SEC Likely Has Flexible TV Contract

He'd know the price for those two schools would be much steeper.

When I asked Slive whether the Pac-10's move to woo the six Big 12 schools surprised him, he said it did not.

So you have to assume that's he's seen some version of this scenario playing out.

Now let's channel the Oscar winning film A Beautiful Mind and return to our analogy about the girls at the bar. In the movie, you'll recall that the the genius scientist, John Nash, uses game theory to create an optimal pick-up situation for he and his friends. Let's put Slive in the John Nash role now at the bar. If you know you can't get Texas, the perfect 10, alone, and you know you can't get Texas and her sister, Texas A&M, the solid 8, alone, those options are out the window. What's more, you definitely wouldn't want Texas Tech and Baylor, the cross-eyed step-sisters of Texas football, but because you know your offer to Texas will be rejected without those two schools, could you make a creative move and approach Texas A&M, the attractive younger sister of the knockout, and make her yours all by herself?

Maybe.

Let's examine why this could be the perfect game theory move in the event the SEC wants to expand into Texas.

1. Texas A&M might well benefit from joining the SEC over the Pac-16.

Why?

Because nothing really changes for A&M in the Pac-16. It is still lost in the penumbra of Texas' hotness, always playing second fiddle. A&M in the SEC would be able to market itself as the SEC team in Texas, the lone opportunity for hotshot Texas recruits to play football in the best football conference in America.

Right now, what distinguishes A&M from Texas?

Not much, right?

But could Texas A&M plus the conference cachet of the SEC challenge Texas for state superiority?

I think so.

Wouldn't entering a recruit's living room and selling him on an experience that no one else in Texas can have -- that is, stay in the state close to home but play in the most football mad schools in the country on a regular basis -- be incredibly beneficial to the school?

Plus, it would open up the fertile recruiting fields of the South to A&M.

I think entering the SEC offers A&M the only chance it may have for generations to truly challenge Texas for state superiority.

2. The Pac-16 would grit its teeth and proceed because it allows them to take Colorado and Baylor.

Politically, the new conference would be unlikely to fight the move of Texas A&M to the SEC.

Why?

Because it eliminates the need for the conference to make a tough choice between Colorado, the school it wants, and Baylor, the school it's being forced to take.

This way they'd get both schools.

Ultimately the Pac-16 wants A&M, but losing the school wouldn't end the deal.

3. Slive raises the price for the Pac-16's pursuit of Texas.

Instead of waltzing into the state and splitting away the state's two premier football programs, the Pac-16 gets one major addition and the two weaker programs.

Putting these schools into context, Texas is overall the No. 1 highest revenue athletic department in the country while Texas A&M is right around 20.

Both are incredibly strong additions to any conference in America.

Meanwhile, Baylor and Texas Tech are 56th and 58th in total athletic revenues meaning both schools fall beneath Vanderbilt in total athletic revenues.

So Slive could swoop into the lucrative Texas television market while upping the price for the addition of Texas.

It's brilliant.

4. The other three Texas schools would all be moving to better conference situations as well, so they wouldn't mind splitting up.

The idea that the Texas schools are sticking together out of loyalty is crap. The reason Baylor and Texas Tech want to be with Texas and Texas A&M is because the two premier programs in the state offer each the best route to a new destination.

If the SEC or the Big Ten offered Baylor tomorrow, do you think Baylor is staying in a tenuous Big 12 position uncertain of a Pac-16 offer or leaping?

It is leaping.

With this move, three schools to the Pac-16 and one to the SEC, everyone is in a more lucrative financial position than they were in before expansion.

If everybody is winning, all four schools don't have to go the same place.

The schools only have to go to the same place to keep a school from losing.

5. A&M could still play Texas on the Friday before Thanksgiving, only now it would be an out-of-conference game.

Stop with these rivalry ending e-mails before they even start.

The game at the end of the year would still happen, it would just be an out-of-conference tilt. Honestly, the brand new Pac-16 vs. the SEC would probably make it a bigger national game than it already is.

And the game would retain all of the regional hate that it already has. There's already a template for these out-of-conference rivalry games in the SEC since Florida plays Florida State and South Carolina plays Clemson on the same weekend.

What's more, since the yearly Texas A&M vs. Arkansas game would now become a conference event, there's an easy slot to allow the out-of-conference game to fit into.

The SEC would then have the option of adding one ACC team from Florida, likely Florida State, and sticking at 14 or raiding the southern ACC schools and ending the ACC as we know it.

Only one question remains: does the man who has kept more quiet than any conference commissioner throughout this entire process have a plan to squire away the state of Texas's solid eight?

I think Mike Slive just might.

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/06/09/a-beautiful-move-texas-aandm-to-sec/

[Whisky Dog]

Nebraska butthurt that Texas has owned them from Big 12 day 1 starting with the James Brown miracle and ending with the Hunter Lawrence boot so they're bolting ship. Well tlong, looks like you can now look forward to having a giant burnt orange cock rammed up your Oregon ass in every major sport!

[Whisky Dog]

Texas and Aggie officials are meeting today to discuss what to do. Aggie jumping to SEC is worst case scenario because those bumbling fools would unwittingly open up the Texas hs goldmine to SEC assholes. We need to stick together to minimize that.

[Sportcamper]

Tlong- So Cal Teams struggle against Cal & Arizona…Can’t wait for UCLA & USC to get regular azz whooping's by Texas & Oklahoma….:lol

[IceColdBrewski]

TMZ now reporting Okie St to Pac 10 a done deal.

[DarkReign]

Chips are a-fallin' fast. The dissolution of the Big12 will force Notre Dame's hand. Question is, which conference?

[IceColdBrewski]

Texas Legislators doing everything they can to keep the Big 12 together, so the Pac 10 is going after all the small players first to splinter the league before the Legislators can even make a move.

Baylor fans a super pissed.

[NFO]

Texas Legislature doing everything they can to keep the Big 12 together, so the Pac 10 is going after all the small players first to splinter the league before the Tex Legislature can even make a move.

Exactly. The Pac-10 really didn't want Tech and/or Baylor. Smart move by the Pac-10 taking control out of the Texas Legislature's hand, which both the Pac-10 and Big 10 knew could be a problem in landing Texas.

[Blake]

Exactly. The Pac-10 really didn't want Tech and/or Baylor.

Eh. It's obvious they don't really want Baylor.

I'm not kidding myself. Tech is that definitely that kid brother that you feel you have to have come along if you want to play with big brother, but I would think if the Pac10 didn't really want Tech, they wouldn't have offered them an invite so fast. They could have held out for the team you seem to think they want instead: Utah.

[tlongII]

Nebraska butthurt that Texas has owned them from Big 12 day 1 starting with the James Brown miracle and ending with the Hunter Lawrence boot so they're bolting ship. Well tlong, looks like you can now look forward to having a giant burnt orange cock rammed up your Oregon ass in every major sport!

I think you'll find we're a little more competitive than you may imagine. :tu

[tlongII]

You better watch out for the Ducks too. Those guys are the University of Nike. Believe me, I know. They will hit the Texas recruiting grounds hard.

[The Gemini Method]

Just like they hit the breaking-and-entering hard out there in Eugene...

[IceColdBrewski]

Chip Brown ChipBrownOB

There is no truth to reports that Texas and Texas A&M are considering the Big Ten. But A&M is still considering the SEC. 1 minute ago via TweetDeck

[IceColdBrewski]

ChipBrownOB
Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas Tech appear to be in lock step to the Pac-10 but will wait til next week to announce anything.

[tlongII]

A&M needs to come too. We don't want Baylor.

[DesignatedT]

A&M needs to come too. We don't want Baylor.

A&M seems to have already shot down the idea of joining the pac 16. IMO at this point Texas and A&M going to the big 10 is the strongest possibility but if A&M does decide to go SEC on their own then Texas will join Pac 10.

[tlongII]

A&M seems to have already shot down the idea of joining the pac 16. IMO at this point Texas and A&M going to the big 10 is the strongest possibility but if A&M does decide to go SEC on their own then Texas will join Pac 10.

I think A&M will wise up and join UT in the Pac-16.

[Blake]

IMO at this point Texas and A&M going to the big 10 is the strongest possibility.

no, them joining the Pac 10 is the strongest possibility at the moment.

[IceColdBrewski]

Aggies have a hardon for the SEC all of the sudden.

[JMarkJohns]

The Big West Conference should replace A&M with Kansas if they want a name, Utah if they want competition in both football and basketball, and Missouri if they want a good, but not great team to add some competitive balance to the Southwest Division.

[samikeyp]

The Big West Conference should replace A&M with Kansas if they want a name, Utah if they want competition in both football and basketball, and Missouri if they want a good, but not great team to add some competitive balance to the Southwest Division.

I don't know, I think A&M can take Cal State-Fullerton, Long Beach and UC-Santa Barbara. ;)

[vander]

this is probably a stupid and oft-answered question, but what would the downside be for Texas if they went independent? I mean, they were thinking about their own freaking TV network anyways


I hope the Big 12 stays together by inviting BSU :downspin: :lmao

[Marklar MM]

this is probably a stupid and oft-answered question, but what would the downside be for Texas if they went independent? I mean, they were thinking about their own freaking TV network anyways

If it does in fact go to four 16 team conferences, each one would go after 2 auto bids. So basically, if you aren't in the conferences, you don't get a top 8 bowl bid...which is why everyone is saying ND will have to eventually join a conference.

[vander]

If it does in fact go to four 16 team conferences, each one would go after 2 auto bids. So basically, if you aren't in the conferences, you don't get a top 8 bowl bid...which is why everyone is saying ND will have to eventually join a conference.

there would still be a BCS no? and Texas could still be the #1 or #2 ranked BCS team right? and I'm sure they would always get an at large bid as long as they're in the top 25.

[Marklar MM]

there would still be a BCS no? and Texas could still be the #1 or #2 ranked BCS team right? and I'm sure they would always get an at large bid as long as they're in the top 25.

Not if each conference takes 2 auto bids for the bcs.

[vander]

Not if each conference takes 2 auto bids for the bcs.

that still leaves 2 spots for at large bids or outsiders in the NCG

[lebomb]

I personally think A&M wants out of UTs shadow, therefore I see them in the SEC. *shrugs*

[Marklar MM]

that still leaves 2 spots for at large bids or outsiders in the NCG

I am dumb...thought there were 4 bowls. :)

Wouldn't surprise me then to see each conference get 2 auto bids, then have the other 2 bids go to the remaining teams.