Flaws of the big bang / atheism

[D2Procon]

If "NOTHING" is the most entropic ultimate symmetrical state then it would be plausible to say that "SOMETHING" cannot come from nothing without an input of energy of some sort. Perhaps the input of energy came from a diety of some sort. Some atheists would argue that there was never a nothing to begin with and that something already had existed that caused the big bang. Isn't that the same logic that creationists have that GOD already existed?

[scott]

The same flaw you are positing here is the same flaw in the case for your God. If "something" can't come from "nothing", where did "God" come from?

If "God" "always was" then couldn't the "universe" just have been "always was"?

The point most would make is that in all of your arguments, "God" is an unnecessary component. "He" doesn't add value to any of the arguments, so why posit "him"?

[D2Procon]

The same flaw you are positing here is the same flaw in the case for your God. If "something" can't come from "nothing", where did "God" come from?

If "God" "always was" then couldn't the "universe" just have been "always was"?

The point most would make is that in all of your arguments, "God" is an unnecessary component. "He" doesn't add value to any of the arguments, so why posit "him"?

The only explanation is Intelligent design.

You're missing the point though, why is it plausible for atheists to believe there was something that existed that led to the big bang but laugh at theists who believe that god already existed?

[mookie2001]

its like jason white winning the heisman

[Shaolin-Style]

Everything comes from something and that something had to come from something.

[mookie2001]

but what imprints on time a distinct directionality?

[scott]

The only explanation is Intelligent design.

You're missing the point though, why is it plausible for atheists to believe there was something that existed that led to the big bang but laugh at theists who believe that god already existed?

No, you're missing the point. "Always was" is the common position, with there being no reason to posit a magical zombie-dad.

[Scola]

I'm an Atheist and I don't know how the universe began. Its a pretty mind boggling question and nobody has an absolute answer. I tend to side with scientists because their theories are based on scientific methods instead of just making up BS. The idea that an all-powerful God exists who created the universe and cares about every single person... I find absolutely ridiculous. Religion is inherently flawed because it relies on faith, something you have to believe blindly without any proof.

[redzero]

The only explanation is Intelligent design.

"God did it" is never an explanation for anything.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Why does it not surprise me someone as stupid as Tacker is a creationist? (and no, none of this intelligent design bullshit, "intelligent design" is the name creationists used for their new theory once scientists exposed all the bullshit involved in the original creationist theory)

[Stringer_Bell]

Religion is inherently flawed because it relies on faith, something you have to believe blindly without any proof.


The greatest feats we experience physically are when the outcome is not guranteed, why wouldn't the same go for spiritual and emotion experiences? I think that's the beautiful thing about faith.

As for the universe, no use worrying about how or what put us here, there's no way we're ever going to find out and if we did it would totally fuck with people's minds. We don't have a lot of time on Earth as it is, let's just try to make it a more peaceful place to live where people don't have to look over their shoulder in fear of violence or jealousy. Concentrate on chillin' yo.

[Leetonidas]

Nothing to see here folks, just another blind sheep following because he can't think for himself. Never mind the fact that, like everyone else said, your initial post can be implied to your God. To say everything couldn't have come from nothing so it must've been God is fucking stupid, because you theists don't realize that you've once again reached a paradox.

And I tried to explain this but you don't wanna learn, so stop making new topics. Everything did not come from NOTHING, everything came from everything super-condensed and heated. Go read up on 10th dimensionality, quantum theory, etc. It's not that hard to enlighten yourself if you really want to.

But you obviously would rather slobber God's imaginary cock.

[mouse]

Just because someone doesn't believe in God doesn't make them an atheist, and just because someone believe in intelligent design doesn't mean they believe in God.

The rest of you spend all day talking in circles. I already moved on to alternative design, a theory I created.

[Leetonidas]

Wait, I'm about to spark up a bowl. Explain your alternate theory so I can have my mind blown. :smokin

[mouse]

Alternative design has many explanations. the door is open for reasonable theories that have no religious or political agendas. The few people who are involved in this fast growing movement have an open mind, and try to use as much common sense as possible.


That is the main reason we don't engage in smack talk or school yard insults it brings nothing to the topic at hand.

One day I will find such a topic in this forum and at that time I will revile my inner thoughts on the subject.

I suggest you save a bowl for that time.

[scott]

The few people who are involved in this fast growing movement

I'm not talking smack... just pointing out how awesome this statement is.

[Mister Sinister]

Darkseid Is.

[Dinamita]

7ImvlS8PLIo

[mookie2001]

yeah atheists dont think for themselves, they just follow the atheist hour on austin public access

[mookie2001]

which ones

[MookieCrew]

The one where he says the same crap over and over again about Hailey my baby, I hate you mom, I hate you Kim, spaghetti, etc.

I hate it when people say the same crap over and over again I saaaaaiiiiidddddd. chode bloadation and corso jess kent dew tings like det when crominating cart mccry and awwwwww i thought it gonbe he-mannnnnnnnnnnn :depressed

You just got chode bloaded i saaaaiiiiidddddd

[mookie2001]

playbook not effective from antonio randolf

[D2Procon]

"God did it" is never an explanation for anything.

No but its the only possible explanation to explain beyond the Big Bang. As we all know, the law of physics and science only applies to whatever is in this universe anything outside the laws become irrelevant. If the laws dont apply beyond the big bang then we can never ever find out whats going on and so the only possible explanation is a diety of some sort.


I'm an Atheist and I don't know how the universe began. Its a pretty mind boggling question and nobody has an absolute answer. I tend to side with scientists because their theories are based on scientific methods instead of just making up BS. The idea that an all-powerful God exists who created the universe and cares about every single person... I find absolutely ridiculous. Religion is inherently flawed because it relies on faith, something you have to believe blindly without any proof.

No mater how much you find out there will always be questions "well what created that, and what created that" In a never ending questionnaire. Ya youre probably thinking who created god and who created him? the point is there is a diety of some sort up there that created all.

[mingus]

i'm not exactly a student of religion. i know my fair share, but i'm not well-versed. the thing that i don't understand when creationists use this "well something can't come from nothing" argument is that if you're going to use that logic to argue against science, then use it for your religion as well. if you're going use that logic, then your deity had to come from somewhere as well because he wouldn't be able to exist w/o something before. but obviously that raises too many questions.

[redzero]

No but its the only possible explanation to explain beyond the Big Bang.

Wrong.


As we all know, the law of physics and science only applies to whatever is in this universe anything outside the laws become irrelevant.

One could say that the laws of science were different before/during the big bang.


If the laws dont apply beyond the big bang then we can never ever find out whats going on and so the only possible explanation is a diety of some sort.

That. Is. Not. An. Explanation.

"A wizard did it" will always be a stupid answer. It doesn't answer anything and raises even more questions.

[mouse]

Wrong.



One could say that the laws of science were different before/during the big bang.



That. Is. Not. An. Explanation.

"A wizard did it" will always be a stupid answer. It doesn't answer anything and raises even more questions.


When you go to the zoo do you feel like your visiting family?

[redzero]

When you go to the zoo do you feel like your visiting family?

Do I feel like my visiting family?

[The Final Countdown]

Do I feel like my visiting family?

You would think a visit to the Zoo would change all that.....

[dickface]

Do I feel like my visiting family?

lol grammar smack


That. Is. Not. An. Explanation.

That looks like a shitload of sentence fragments to me.

[Dinamita]

When you go to the zoo do you feel like your visiting family?

1. Humans Evolved From Monkeys

Humans and great apes had a common ancestor about 5 million years ago Humans and monkeys had a common ancestor about 50 million years ago.
Nowhere, except in the most illiterate anti-evolution literature, will you find a claim that humans evolved from monkeys.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat02.html


:wakeup

[redzero]

That looks like a shitload of sentence fragments to me.

I did that for emphasis, obviously.

Mouse, however, made the all too common mistake of confusing "you're" with "your."

[IronMexican]

When you go to the zoo do you feel like your visiting family?

Hey, asshole, are you saying this cause redzero is black?

[redzero]

Hey, asshole, are you saying this cause redzero is black?

:lol

[The Reckoning]

Go read up on 10th dimensionality, quantum theory, etc. It's not that hard to enlighten yourself if you really want to.




quantum theory doesnt account for time and space. it merely implies that its a phenomena that results from the interactions between strings in calabi-yau space. it predicts several things, but assumes many more. imo, whatever created time as a substance does not have a "before."

[jacobdrj]

My issues have less to do with the theories of creation than the people promoting those theories. Too much arrogance and not enough listening to what the other party has to say.

I am not even sure 'Steady Staters' and 'Big Bangers' are even discussing the same thing most of the time.

Lets say that there was a big bang from a single point. That doesn't change the fact that that point was there first. Lets say that the big bang is a cyclical event, alternating big bangs and big crunches, that still doesn't contradict, essentially, what the steady starers say about how the universe always was.

Neither argument seems to say anything different: The universe always was, in some form or another.

Conceptually, this is hard to grasp, and leaves open the possibility that at some point there actually was an initial creation. But Big Bangers don't really address that, at least not on the programs/textbooks I have seen.

[dickface]

I did that for emphasis, obviously.

Mouse, however, made the all too common mistake of confusing "you're" with "your."

doesn't change the fact that grammar smack is for cheesedicks.

[mouse]

Lets say that there was a big bang from a single point. That doesn't change the fact that that point was there first. Lets say that the big bang is a cyclical event, alternating big bangs and big crunches, that still doesn't contradict, essentially, what the steady starers say about how the universe always was.



When something explodes all particles rotate in the same direction. Jupiter has moons that rotate in the opposite direction as Jupiter and it's other moons how do you explain that?

looks like your big bang theory is really a big dud.

[redzero]

When something explodes all particles rotate in the same direction.

The Big Bang wasn't an explosion; it was a rapid expansion.


Jupiter has moons that rotate in the opposite direction as Jupiter and it's other moons how do you explain that?

Jupiter and its moons weren't formed at the time of the Big Bang. They formed billions of years later.


looks like your big bang theory is really a big dud.

Looks like all you do is spew bullshit you heard from somebody else.

[mouse]

The Big Bang wasn't an explosion; it was a rapid expansion.

then why not call it the big expansion?




Jupiter and its moons weren't formed at the time of the Big Bang. They formed billions of years later.

And you have the proof?




Looks like all you do is spew bullshit you heard from somebody else.

So all your bullshit is your own research?

[DAF86]

:lol If you think this exact statement doesn't apply to a great deal of atheists as well, you're fooling yourself.

Atheists don't have a book to tell them what to think and how to behave.

[redzero]

then why not call it the big expansion?


Fred Hoyle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle) is credited with coining the term Big Bang during a 1949 radio broadcast. It is popularly reported that Hoyle, who favored an alternative "steady state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state_universe)" cosmological model, intended this to be pejorative, but Hoyle explicitly denied this and said it was just a striking image meant to highlight the difference between the two models.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle


And you have the proof?
Just like the rest of the gas giants (http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/the-solar-system/gas-giants/) in the Solar (http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/the-sun/solar/) System, the formation of Jupiter (http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/jupiter/) began with the build up of ice covered dust in the outer, cold solar nebula (http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/nebulae/). Small particles of ice and dust came together, forming larger and larger objects. When the nascent planet (http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/the-solar-system/planet/) had gathered together enough mass, its gravity attracted more dust, as well as hydrogen and helium. The heaviest elements sunk into the core of the planet, surrounded by the lighter hydrogen and helium in its atmosphere.http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-space/jupiter/formation-of-jupiter/


Jupiter's Formation:
The formation of Jupiter (and the other Jovian worlds) starts with the accretion (build-up) of ice-covered dust in the outer, cold solar nebula

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/%7Ejs/images/jovian_formation.gif Note that, due to gravity, the heavier elements sink to the core of proto-Jupiter, thus, we expect the core region to be rocky. While the lighter elements (H and He) remain in the atmosphere.http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/ast121/lectures/lec19.html (http://abyss.uoregon.edu/%7Ejs/ast121/lectures/lec19.html)

Nowhere in the Big Bang Theory is it claimed that all the planets instantaneously formed, as you falsely presume.


So all your bullshit is your own research?Facts and common knowledge are not bullshit. If you actually spent time looking these things up or paying attention in class, you might actually learn something.

[DAF86]

Religious people have a missconception about atheists, "Atheist" is just a word to describe a person that doesn't bealive in a God, it's not a religion, it's not a cult, it's nothing more than a noun. Two atheists can have nothing in common other than the fact that they don't bealive in God.

For example I'm an atheist and you won't see me defending the Big Bang theory.

[redzero]

Religious people have a missconception about atheists, "Atheist" is just a word to describe a person that doesn't bealive in a God, it's not a religion, it's not a cult, it's nothing more than a noun. Two atheists can have nothing in common other than the fact that they don't bealive in God.

For example I'm an atheist and you won't see me defending the Big Bang theory.

You don't even have to defend the Big Bang theory. Even if it was wrong, that still doesn't prove that there is a God--because it's impossible to prove.

[mouse]

Hoyle was a writer of science fiction,

/thread :lmao

[redzero]

1.) Horrible attempt at ad hominem.
2.) Fred Hoyle did not accept the Big Bang Theory, you moron.


in particular his rejection of the "Big Bang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang)" theory, a term originally coined by him as a jocular, perhaps disparaging, name for the theory which was the main rival to his own.
:lmao

Pathetic attempt at a comeback. I just showed you how your "proof" is false, and your retort is this?

[mouse]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0964318814/qid%3D1029672641/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr_11_1/104-8543258-3148738

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51FGRPRVC8L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg



Just out of curiosity,.....please don't use Google and stop posting cheesy drawings and links. I can post a page that shows a man with a beard creating the universe that doesn't mean it happened, you and no one you know was here when the earth was formed so just give it a rest for now and answer me this.


If comets are a result of the big bang or your "Expansion" theory then why are they still here shooting across space since they have a lifespan of only 10,000 years and they were created millions of years ago?

Your opinion not Google's please.

[mouse]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/Donated%20art%20for%20free1/meth.jpg

[redzero]

Just out of curiosity,.....please don't use Google and stop posting cheesy drawings and links.

The drawing exists to illustrate a point. Period.


I can post a page that shows a man with a beard creating the universe that doesn't mean it happened,Oh, so explanations attained from logic, reasoning, and observation carry the same weight as some moron's claim that a bearded man created the universe? Okay.


you and no one you know was here when the earth was formed so just give it a rest for now and answer me this.I wasn't here when Alexander the Great was alive, conquering large portions of the earth. I wasn't around when the Ice Age happened. I wasn't around when dinosaurs roamed the earth, when neanderthals lived, or when WWII happened. Does that changed the fact that those things still happened and that there are logical explanations for them happening?


If comets are a result of the big bang or your "Expansion" theoryAgain, you are not listening. Comets formed over millions of years. Planets formed over millions of years. They did not come into being when the Big Bang occurred.


then why are they still here shooting across space since they have a lifespan of only 10,000 years and they were created millions of years ago?More comets formed, obviously.


Your opinion not Google's please.Oh, you don't like the facts I showed you? You would rather have me spew uninformed bullshit like you do?

Now, I gave you my opinion. If you really want to know how comets are formed, look it up.

[tlongII]

I want to know where redzero's sig is from?

[Shastafarian]

I want to know where redzero's sig is from?

Unfortunately no one can be told what Jersey Shore is. You have to see it for yourself.

[Goran Dragic]

Unfortunately no one can be told what Jersey Shore is. You have to see it for yourself.


:lol true. Words cannot describe what goes on at the Jersey Shore.

[redzero]

Oh, you most certainly do. You think you don't, but you do. You have your "holy books", you have your "prophets", and you have your "God". You call it all something completely different, but you have it. But in all honesty, the best thing atheists have going for them is that they don't have nutjobs who misinterpret their own shit and start wars over it.

Mind telling me who our prophets and gods are? Or what our holy book is?

[Blake]

If comets are a result of the big bang or your "Expansion" theory then why are they still here shooting across space since they have a lifespan of only 10,000 years and they were created millions of years ago?

Your opinion not Google's please.

So you learned about comets without the use of a search engine?

Let's see your personal findings and not Google's please.

[BacktoBasics]

For me its not an issue of higher power vs. some chemical reaction and big bang. Neither are 100% accurate as represented. The real argument should support the logic and continuing exploration of the origins of the universe rather than something that is proven mythical and non-existent.

Higher power...maybe but this whole notion of "god" and "christ" and the modern day scope of organized religion is biggest load of fecal matter ever perpetrated on humanity. At least the evolutionist are attempting to put together a logical picture of what this world is rather than blindly following hearsay and fabricated urban legends.

One is rooted in common sense and logic with an intent to grow and learn the other is rooted in bigotry and ignorance.

I miss these threads. Wish I could find more time to post here.

God Bless.

[bigzak25]

Love God. Love each other.

the rest is noise and a waste of time.

[Blake]

Love God. Love each other.

the rest is noise and a waste of time.

Church is just noise and a waste of time, imo.

[bigzak25]

...something that is proven mythical and non-existent.

where is this proof you speak of? what is this 'something'?

if one believes something to be mythical and non-existent, then so shall it be.


Higher power...maybe

so you admit the possibility. so what do you feel this Higher power would want for you in your life, if this Higher power was to exist?


but this whole notion of "god" and "christ" and the modern day scope of organized religion is biggest load of fecal matter ever perpetrated on humanity.

Every individuals 'notion' of God and Christ is unique in its own way.

What specifically do you dislike about 'organized' religion?

I have not attended church in quite a while. I have issues with some of it too. Mostly the prideful thoughts that some members or leaders may have that their church may be better than another based upon the denomination or the God being worshipped. I think it comes down to the message being given. If you have a good messenger, then the experience and study can be of of great value.


At least the evolutionist are attempting to put together a logical picture of what this world is rather than blindly following hearsay and fabricated urban legends.

a logical picture of what this world is. i don't think you have to be an evolutionist to find that answer.

i agree that blindly following something is silly.

but those that truly follow are not blind, but see the clearest of all.

regarding hearsay and fabricated urban legends...all i can say is...we should not let the noise distract us from the truth.


One is rooted in common sense and logic with an intent to grow and learn the other is rooted in bigotry and ignorance.

i would agree completely, but i have no cause to label evolutionists as ignorant or bigots.



I miss these threads. Wish I could find more time to post here.

God Bless.


I think Spurstalk misses your posts too. I'd like to see you post more. I hope your business and family are doing well. God Bless you too.

[bigzak25]

Church is just noise and a waste of time, imo.


unfortunately, the opinion you are expressing is shared by many.

there are numerous reasons why one would feel this way.


if one's heart is hardened, then i can see why one may feel that way.

the other possibility is that one may let their intellect get in their way, along with their ego.

lastly, the Church they have attended in the past may not have been preaching the proper message clearly.

[Höfner]

We don't know shit. Our ancestors 2000 years ago knew a tiny fraction of what we know now.



Therefore, ancient ancestors knowing more about the universe and who created it goes against logic and reasoning. I mean seriously. For thousands of years, people thought bad meat being left out created flies...

so I'll never get an appeal to religion for the answers (converse of being an atheist)

[JoeChalupa]

These weekly threads are hilarious. :lmao

Where is that damn boot?

[JoeChalupa]

There are many things that are nothing but noise and a waste of time for some. I happen to enjoy going to Mass but yeah, I can see how one could come up with that conclusion. To each his own.

[bigzak25]

We don't know shit. Our ancestors 2000 years ago knew a tiny fraction of what we know now.

Therefore, ancient ancestors knowing more about the universe and who created it goes against logic and reasoning. I mean seriously. For thousands of years, people thought bad meat being left out created flies...

so I'll never get an appeal to religion for the answers (converse of being an atheist)



with regard to our Creator, what more do we know now that we didn't know 2000 years ago?

if i'm interpreting your post correctly, what you speak of is technology, which has no doubt enabled us to realize our molecular composition on a level never before possible.

agreed.

but no matter how much one can determine about the ingredients, they will be no closer to determining the chef if the chef has never been seen.

too often we cannot see the forest for the trees.

logic and reasoning could also lead to the conclusion that all this technology that has been developed is leading us further away from the truth, as we become self consumed with our toys and our gadgets and operate in our well crafted silos.

meanwhile, children in need around the world go hungry and without medication due to greed and apathy, both corporate and individual.


are we closer now than in the past? i'm not so sure.

will we be closer tomorrow? i hope so.

[Blake]

unfortunately, the opinion you are expressing is shared by many.

there are numerous reasons why one would feel this way.


if one's heart is hardened, then i can see why one may feel that way.

the other possibility is that one may let their intellect get in their way, along with their ego.

lastly, the Church they have attended in the past may not have been preaching the proper message clearly.

4thly, the church is nothing more than a money making or self serving vehicle for the people there, pastor included.

There is a very large number of affluent churches on the north side of town. Apparently God attends to the needs of the rich before the needs of the poor.

[Blake]

with regard to our Creator, what more do we know now that we didn't know 2000 years ago?

if i'm interpreting your post correctly, what you speak of is technology, which has no doubt enabled us to realize our molecular composition on a level never before possible.

agreed.

Which religion's creator are you referring to?

If you are referring to the creator of the Bible, we now know the Earth and the universe are billions of years old which means that the creator in this Bible does not speak in literal terms.


but no matter how much one can determine about the ingredients, they will be no closer to determining the chef if the chef has never been seen.

too often we cannot see the forest for the trees.

wtf?

too often people cross the street without looking both ways as well.



logic and reasoning could also lead to the conclusion that all this technology that has been developed is leading us further away from the truth, as we become self consumed with our toys and our gadgets and operate in our well crafted silos.

so the creator gave us the ability to develop technology, and being omniscient, knew it would ultimately lead us away from the truth?

:lol

mankind has always had toys of some kind to play with.


meanwhile, children in need around the world go hungry and without medication due to greed and apathy, both corporate and individual.

meanwhile, churches around the world continue to prosper.

[Spock]

meanwhile, churches around the world continue to prosper.

http://tracilawrimore.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/livelong.jpg
"Live long and prosper."

[DarkReign]

When I always thought about the religious and their death-grip upon their beliefs, I more or less pictured them being challenged and reacting almost identically to the way mouse does.

Truth is, turns out, most are nothing like that. Theyre usually benevolent (bigzak, angel, Joe, etc). But the very few do indeed foam at the mouth and continue to consciously ignore everything and anything around them that even leads them to question or ponder their belief system.

Keep your fingers in your ears, its fine. I know I dont care, but must you always start a thread with some new bullshit you pulled from a creationist site every week like you just found the Holy Trump Card in the argument?

Because you havent found it, nor will you ever.

Do you want to know why? No? Too bad.

You lack intellectual honesty which is, by far, the biggest hurdle for the deranged to even grasp or admit. You are incapable, completely and utterly incapable of separating your beliefs from actual, measurable science. Take Phen, for instance. Obviously, a God warrior through and through, but still has the ability to separate his beliefs from his scientific pursuits and interests. At least long enough to question validity (as any inquisitive mind should, when properly tooled, that is) and draw his own, sometimes bizarre, conclusions.

To me, when it comes to this (weekly) topic, youre devoid of anything that could even be confused as credibility. Youre only good for a laugh and laugh heartily I do, indeed.

[Leetonidas]

BigSnack/Joe = Respectable theists

DP2ProCon = Bible thumping retard, which was implied from the "ProCon" in his s/n.

[Blake]

You are incapable, completely and utterly incapable of separating your beliefs from actual, measurable science.

...and unwilling because of the ramifications that might come from separating the two


Take Phen, for instance. Obviously, a God warrior through and through, but still has the ability to separate his beliefs from his scientific pursuits and interests. At least long enough to question validity (as any inquisitive mind should, when properly tooled, that is) and draw his own, sometimes bizarre, conclusions.

I dunno. He's still not giving in to the universe being billions of years old...

he's still under the impression that he's right about a younger universe and that the rest of us are just sheep following "science's" lead.


To me, when it comes to this (weekly) topic, youre devoid of anything that could even be confused as credibility. Youre only good for a laugh and laugh heartily I do, indeed.

My curiosity kills me. I gotta see what's being said in these threads every time.

[bigzak25]

4thly, the church is nothing more than a money making or self serving vehicle for the people there, pastor included.

There is a very large number of affluent churches on the north side of town. Apparently God attends to the needs of the rich before the needs of the poor.


when you say 'the church', you are painting with a broad stroke.

while what you say may be true for many, it is not true for all.

we should not let the actions of the misguided pervert our faith in THE CHURCH.


i understand what you are saying about the churches with the money to build fantastical houses of God. however, unless one digs deeper than the surface, and investigates what each Church gives back to the community, a true opinion should not be formed.

[bigzak25]

Which religion's creator are you referring to?

If you are referring to the creator of the Bible, we now know the Earth and the universe are billions of years old which means that the creator in this Bible does not speak in literal terms.

I am referring to the singular deity known as Our Creator.

I personally use the name, God.

But as you well know, each true religion has it's own name.



wtf?

too often people cross the street without looking both ways as well.


exactly, and is that something you would consider wise?



so the creator gave us the ability to develop technology, and being omniscient, knew it would ultimately lead us away from the truth?

:lol

mankind has always had toys of some kind to play with.


i have a very high appreciation for technology and the opportunities that it can provide us with. However, again, you are painting with too broad a stroke. Certain technologies are developed to serve the individual. Others to serve mankind. I bet you can guess which one our Creator would like us to focus on.


meanwhile, churches around the world continue to prosper.

until THE CHURCH prospers, the people around the world will continue to suffer.

THE CHURCH is a non for monetary profit organization.

[Blake]

when you say 'the church', you are painting with a broad stroke.

while what you say may be true for many, it is not true for all.

we should not let the actions of the misguided pervert our faith in THE CHURCH.

I thought it was understood that I meant "4thly the church(es) I have attended."

my bad.



i understand what you are saying about the churches with the money to build fantastical houses of God. however, unless one digs deeper than the surface, and investigates what each Church gives back to the community, a true opinion should not be formed.

bull crap.

If a tax exempt organization is building itself a fantastical house of God for it's own church members and not build equal or better houses of God for poverty stricken people on the other sides of town, then it's not hard for me to form an opinion that they are hypocritical of Jesus' teachings.

[marini martini]

Ha!!! Ya'll need to go to my church!!!:toast

[Blake]

I am referring to the singular deity known as Our Creator.

I personally use the name, God.

But as you well know, each true religion has it's own name.

:lol

you're painting too broad a stroke.

What religions are true? Which religions refer to the same God you are referring to?


exactly, and is that something you would consider wise?

wise but irrelevant to the topic at hand.


i have a very high appreciation for technology and the opportunities that it can provide us with. However, again, you are painting with too broad a stroke. Certain technologies are developed to serve the individual. Others to serve mankind. I bet you can guess which one our Creator would like us to focus on.

TV ministries?

No, I can't guess which "one". Please tell me.


until THE CHURCH prospers, the people around the world will continue to suffer.

THE CHURCH is a non for monetary profit organization.

WHAT church?

You are painting too broad of a stroke.
I can rattle off a good number of very propserous churches in San Antonio, Texas, the US, Vatican City and the World.

[Blake]

Ha!!! Ya'll need to go to my church!!!:toast

do they serve martinis?

[marini martini]

do they serve martinis?

No, but they cure hang overs!!!:lol

[bigzak25]

I thought it was understood that I meant "4thly the church(es) I have attended."

my bad.


no problem. i understand now. i am sorry for your bad experiences.

do not give up Blake. we cannot let the jaded corrupt us.

contrarily, we must try to show them the way by being a living example of how it should be done.


bull crap.

If a tax exempt organization is building itself a fantastical house of God for it's own church members and not build equal or better houses of God for poverty stricken people on the other sides of town, then it's not hard for me to form an opinion that they are hypocritical of Jesus' teachings.

i completely understand your point of view.

however, the unfortunate fact is, that most affluent people are drawn to affluent looking churches.

if that's what it takes to get them to attend, then so be it.

that's half the battle.

next is the message being preached and the proper usage of any funds that are collected.

I believe a true Church of God will have a budget that allocates the vast majority of funds collected to helping those most in need.

Secondarily is the sustaining of the facility that brought the people in in the first place, and lastly, as needed, adding more capacity as the congregation grows.

[bigzak25]

:lol

you're painting too broad a stroke.

What religions are true? Which religions refer to the same God you are referring to?




A Good Father loves His children, and teaches them how to love others.

That is how you can tell what is true from what is false.




wise but irrelevant to the topic at hand.

i respectfully disagree. it seems many are searching for the answers.

i know i was for a very long time...

however, what each of us must determine of our own accord, is whether we are asking the right question.

the answers are in front of our faces everyday. multiple times a day.

but many can't see them for they are searching with a jaded heart or an egotistical mind.



TV ministries?

No, I can't guess which "one". Please tell me.

but i did tell you. i believe technologies developed to serve mankind are one of the key components to ending world suffering and proliferating world peace.




WHAT church?

You are painting too broad of a stroke.
I can rattle off a good number of very prosperous churches in San Antonio, Texas, the US, Vatican City and the World.

when you say prosperous, you are most likely speaking monetarily.

THE CHURCH...my church, your church, our church, every living beings church, which is based upon serving mankind with a servant's heart.

Expecting nothing in return. Rejoicing in the glory of our Service to mankind, in the name of God.

[Blake]

No, but they cure hang overs!!!:lol

they serve menudo?

[Blake]

Rejoicing in the glory of our Service to mankind, in the name of God.

I cant tell if you are being a trolling idiot or a serious idiot.