World Cup 2010: Worst players on each team?

[ElNono]

Who do you think is the worst player on each national squad?
You know, the guy that's likely to play but you can't figure out what the coach sees on him.

I'll kick it off with Argentina...

Gabriel Heinze: His presence in this team, previous national teams and top clubs is among the greatest unsolved mysteries in the world, right up there with the egyptian pyramids and UFOs.
This is a guy with complete lack of basic technical skills, his defense is below par, misses assignments constantly...
The game against Mexico last World Cup should have been his last, in case there were any doubts, yet the guys always finds a way not to lose his spot on the team.

Who else you got?

[lefty]

Algeria:

Yazid Mansouri, the Captain


He sucks

Everybody in Algeria hates him


The bad news is that the coach will probably start him in the WC because he is the Captain

:pctoss

[Dinamita]

Mexico:

Bofo

Medina

Conejo

[Muser]

Emile Heskey. Couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat..

[IronMexican]

Why didn't Sanchez make the squad.

[TDMVPDPOY]

england

lampard, this guy disappear in korea/japan, even in germany....on the national stage his not good compared to EPL...

i think england can win it

[Dinamita]

Why didn't Sanchez make the squad.

Are you talking about Oswaldo?.. Because he's garbage too.
I would take him over Conejo though.

[IronMexican]

I'd take him over Conejo too. It's Osvaldo:lol

[Dinamita]

I'd take him over Conejo too. It's Osvaldo:lol

No its not son, It's Oswaldo but in mexico the W is pronounced like a V. :lol

[IronMaxipad]

USA

Landon Donavon, Gooch, Dempsey, Buddle, Gomez, Alexi Lalas, Coby Jones.

[urunobili]

Uruguay:

Sebastian Fernandez
Alvaro Fernandez

none of them should have made it to the final roster

[Sense]

I'd take him over Conejo too. It's Osvaldo:lol

It's Oswaldo.....


Anyways I'd take Conejo over Oswaldo.... we need some change, and Oswaldo was never a good keeper

[IronMexican]

The fucking announcers for Telemundo and Univision always throw me off. When he used to play, at lest.

[Sense]

The fucking announcers for Telemundo and Univision always throw me off. When he used to play, at lest.

Dude the only difference is how it's spelled.... you say it like Osvaldo, but you spell it Oswaldo

[quentin_compson]

With Germany, it's kind of difficult to say, as they have a lot of guys that are "alright", not great or ridiculously bad.

Maybe Trochowski is the worst on this squad, though. Cacau usually sucks big time, but he's been having a good season, so you never know.

[rascal]

With Germany, it's kind of difficult to say, as they have a lot of guys that are "alright", not great or ridiculously bad.

Maybe Trochowski is the worst on this squad, though. Cacau usually sucks big time, but he's been having a good season, so you never know.

Not too many German Spur fans. :toast

[Brazil]

Sorry for France it's a too difficult question

[DAF86]

Easily Ariel Garce, dude was so sure he wasn't an international level player that he had already bought tickets to see the WC as a fan. Fuck Maradona, supposedly he had a dream where Argentina won the World Cup and the only Argie player he could remember celebrating was Garce. :bang

[ElNono]

Easily Ariel Garce, dude was so sure he wasn't an international level player that he had already bought tickets to see the WC as a fan. Fuck Maradona, supposedly he had a dream where Argentina won the World Cup and the only Argie player he could remember celebrating was Garce. :bang

He's not going to play though............ right?...... RIGHT????!

:vomit:

[hater]

I don't know about worse but Donovan and Hercules Gomez are the most overrated players in team USA

[DAF86]

He's not going to play though............ right?...... RIGHT????!

:vomit:

I think/hope so. Sorry I had forgotten why I didn't say Garce the first time I read it.

[urunobili]

lol Cambiasso
lol Zanetti
lol Gago
lol Banega
lol Licha

[ElNono]

lol Cambiasso
lol Zanetti
lol Gago
lol Banega
lol Licha

Hold on a sec there... I actually think Cambiasso would have been useful in case Mascherano gets hurt, but if bringing Gago meant to leave out Di Maria, then Gago can watch the games from home.
And Pupi is really up there in age. He really sucked in a few games in the qualifier. I don't know that Jonas is a better player, but he should have fresher legs.

Banega and Licha would barely make the cut for Argentina's 3rd team...

LOL Garce though... :lol

[urunobili]

Cambiasso is one of the best ever midfielder's int he game. He is 30 years old and peaking.

Zanetti is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonas and it's not even fair even being 35.

one of both Banega and Gago should have made it (i think they're level is pretty equal)...

and Licha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palermo

[Phenomanul]

I wasn't a big fan of Cambiasso... but over the last 3 years or so he's drastically improved his game... his playing style and decision making are elite...

Most can see this... (except Maradona of course...)

and Javier Zanetti (like Cambiasso) was a key cog in Inter's engine... I don't understand why Maradona thought he couldn't perform with the NT any longer... Maybe he has lingering feelings against Inter from his days in the Italian league...

[ElNono]

Cambiasso is one of the best ever midfielder's int he game. He is 30 years old and peaking.

Yeah, but in the NT he hasn't played that well (much like Verón)... I love his game, and he has played great at the club level, but I'm not sold there was room for him in this team unless Mascherano goes down.


Zanetti is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonas and it's not even fair even being 35.

Pupi remains a solid defender. He simply can't make those big runs forward anymore. Jonas is definitely the player with better pace, plus you can play him on either side, including the midfield.


one of both Banega and Gago should have made it (i think they're level is pretty equal)...

I much rather take Cambiasso over of any of those two. So basically, no room for them.


and Licha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Palermo

Sure, but Palermo is only going in if we're down one, there's 10 mins to go and we start kicking hail mary's for a header that can save us. And really, in that function, Palermo is a lot better than Licha. Otherwise, with Milito, Agüero, Tevez, Messi and Higuan, there's no way in hell there's room for Lopez.

[sonic21]

Licha > Palermo, no contest

[urunobili]

Yeah, but in the NT he hasn't played that well (much like Verón)... I love his game, and he has played great at the club level, but I'm not sold there was room for him in this team unless Mascherano goes down.

Are you out of your mind? Did you ever see your NT team play with Cambiasso? claiming he played bad on the NT is just looking at this BS Maradona's team. Cambiasso has been one of the ultimate winners and direct responsible of Argentina's world stage soccer level of the past 10 years.


Pupi remains a solid defender. He simply can't make those big runs forward anymore. Jonas is definitely the player with better pace, plus you can play him on either side, including the midfield. Still Jonas is inexperienced at this level of Play and you don't precisely need him to go up front all the time with Maxi Rodriguez to get that done. I hope I'm wrong though I think Jonas will choke... this ain't no qualifier or Premier B league...




I much rather take Cambiasso over of any of those two. So basically, no room for them. lol Bolatti




Sure, but Palermo is only going in if we're down one, there's 10 mins to go and we start kicking hail mary's for a header that can save us. And really, in that function, Palermo is a lot better than Licha. Otherwise, with Milito, Agüero, Tevez, Messi and Higuan, there's no way in hell there's room for Lopez.
lol miracle header player that missed three straight penalties last time he played with the NT on a cup stake's competition :lol

[ElNono]

Are you out of your mind? Did you ever see your NT team play with Cambiasso? claiming he played bad on the NT is just looking at this BS Maradona's team. Cambiasso has been one of the ultimate winners and direct responsible of Argentina's world stage soccer level of the past 10 years.

I've seen it. And we haven't won shit with Cambiasso on the team for the past 10+ years. Go take a look at the last Copa America final against Brazil, he was awful. Replaced by Aimar midway through the second half. And this predates Maradona. He wasn't any better with Basile either.

At the club level he has always been superb. There's just some players that don't translate to playing well for the NT.


Still Jonas is inexperienced at this level of Play and you don't precisely need him to go up front all the time with Maxi Rodriguez to get that done. I hope I'm wrong though I think Jonas will choke... this ain't no qualifier or Premier B league...

Maxi is not playing though. And Zanetti not being there has more to do with fielding 3 or 4 center-back than anything (which, BTW, is not a creation of Maradona. Bilardo used the same tactic in '86 and '90).


lol Bolatti
Now, there's something we can agree with...
That said, he's good enough to score against Uruguay :stirpot:

:lol


lol miracle header player that missed three straight penalties last time he played with the NT on a cup stake's competition :lol
He was also responsible for qualifying us (alongside Bolatti). And doing exactly what I was telling you: looking for a miracle header in the nick of time. Don't forget that for a while our tallest forwards were Agüero and Tevez... Impossible to win a header under pressure with them.

[urunobili]

I've seen it. And we haven't won shit with Cambiasso on the team for the past 10+ years. Go take a look at the last Copa America final against Brazil, he was awful. Replaced by Aimar midway through the second half. And this predates Maradona. He wasn't any better with Basile either.

At the club level he has always been superb. There's just some players that don't translate to playing well for the NT.


IIRC he won the Gold medal in 2004
lol Youth WC won with Pekerman
and he was one of Argentina's best players last WC scoring one of the best team goals in the history of the cup...

just accept it... if Cambiasso is not there is already a fail... he is the ultimate small team killer... just leave him out when you play Brazil :stirpot:


Maxi is not playing though. And Zanetti not being there has more to do with fielding 3 or 4 center-back than anything (which, BTW, is not a creation of Maradona. Bilardo used the same tactic in '86 and '90).
Zanetti has a history of cruising in the qualifiers just like Veron and Ayala... so no... this is another failure


Now, there's something we can agree with...
That said, he's good enough to score against Uruguay :stirpot:

:lol

The match was bound to end 0-0 when Caceres made that deserved foul to "flop machine though I foul hard and it wasn't me" Heinze... and the draw would have qualified Argentina and Maradona would have celebrated the same classless way.... :rolleyes


He was also responsible for qualifying us (alongside Bolatti). And doing exactly what I was telling you: looking for a miracle header in the nick of time. Don't forget that for a while our tallest forwards were Agüero and Tevez... Impossible to win a header under pressure with them.
So the squad isn't deep enough to have to have a miracle header guy because your other talent wouldn't beat a team on 90 minutes :nope

[DAF86]

Licha > Palermo, no contest

Yes, same with a lot of other Argie forwards but the thing with Palermo is that he has an unique skillset (headers) compared to our other attackers, so I'm OK with Maradona picking him. Licha would have been kind of redundant with Higuain and Milito on the team. Besides as ElNono said, the only way Palermo gets some playing time is if we're down and running out of time.

[ElNono]

IIRC he won the Gold medal in 2004

He didn't.


lol Youth WC won with Pekerman and he was one of Argentina's best players last WC scoring one of the best team goals in the history of the cup...

I knew you were going to bring up that goal... :lol
The only good thing you can come up with when thinking about Cambiasso in the NT, and it was against a scrub team.


just accept it... if Cambiasso is not there is already a fail... he is the ultimate small team killer... just leave him out when you play Brazil :stirpot:

If he can't show up when it matters, he can simply watch it at home. We have plenty of those already.


Zanetti has a history of cruising in the qualifiers just like Veron and Ayala... so no... this is another failure

The only history Zanetti has is not making the team in the previous World Cup either. I guess Pekerman was a failure too... :rolleyes


The match was bound to end 0-0 when Caceres made that deserved foul to "flop machine though I foul hard and it wasn't me" Heinze... and the draw would have qualified Argentina and Maradona would have celebrated the same classless way.... :rolleyes

lol Bolatti :lol


So the squad isn't deep enough to have to have a miracle header guy because your other talent wouldn't beat a team on 90 minutes :nope

When you're facing elimination it's simply better to have another option in desperation time. Licha is simply redundant in that function.

[rascal]

Sorry for France it's a too difficult question

I don't expect France to advance past group play.

[lefty]

Algeria:

Yazid Mansouri, the Captain


He sucks

Everybody in Algeria hates him


The bad news is that the coach will probably start him in the WC because he is the Captain

:pctoss


Update,

It looks like he is going to be benched :lol

[lefty]

Algeria:

Yazid Mansouri, the Captain


He sucks

Everybody in Algeria hates him


The bad news is that the coach will probably start him in the WC because he is the Captain

:pctoss


http://www.9m.com/upfiles/lTH92933.gif

[diego]

sorry to butt in your discussion guys, but i have to say:

argentina has won all manner of youth WC the past what, 12-13 years? Im not 100% sure but I think from 95-2009 something like 6-7 youth WC... and during that span the adult team has been 100% disappointment. even when they played well- qualifier period for 02, they had a huge unbeaten stretch then get eliminated in the 1st round; 04, 07 copa america finals where they stormed to the finals as big favorite just to get schooled by brazil (+05 confed cup same story). There are players that just wilt when they go up a level and their physical advantages cease to make a difference. to make matters worse old players dont always die graciously, and we all know with the money at stake strings get pulled. I think diego took Garce to send the rest a message: "I dont care how big your billboards are- I want a worker class guy" (we can argue how much of a hard work garce actually transmits because he sucks so he must not work much but my point stands) and also to transmit diego's spiritual conviction that they'll win with him :lol
guys like cambiasso, aimar, zanetti, lucho gonzalez, they had their chance. in soccer you have 3 subs a game, the tournaments are short, the bench hardly matters. I dont think its a big deal for diego to have taken garce. he isnt going to play a minute. in a perfect world, you take the best to recognize their work so to speak, and respect the position; but this isn't a perfect world and diego is using that to try and motivate his players. in my view, diego isnt a normal coach. his function isnt to instruct. its to motivate- because he can use his accomplishments to instill confidence with his players, and because he can call them out and manipulate the media against them to compel them to play their ass off. the players wouldnt be able to cut the floor out from diego the way he can them, other coaches dont have that luxury. so I think it was a good move from diego, and its not because he doesnt rate them as players (they played in his cycle) but this is maradona's way of telling his starters "i need you and only you, we dont need no stinking backups."


and finally a big :lol to Lefty for calling England contenders. and argentina are overrated, jajajaja!

[diego]

oh and the one player that is criminal for him to be out is riquelme.

he's had injuries so its almost a moot point but if you had a healthy riquelme (close to 06 WC level) in place of veron this team would be champs. (argentina isnt the only country looking weak this year- in fact, who isnt? Spain? whoever wants to bet about how that will go, lets hear it!)

[DAF86]

diego chill out, it's just one game. What if we don't win the next one?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

oh and the one player that is criminal for him to be out is riquelme.

he's had injuries so its almost a moot point but if you had a healthy riquelme (close to 06 WC level) in place of veron this team would be champs. (argentina isnt the only country looking weak this year- in fact, who isnt? Spain? whoever wants to bet about how that will go, lets hear it!)

:lmao give me a fucking break. Anyone who thinks we'd be better off with Riquelme still running this team doesn't know shit, period. Veron might not be all that anymore, but Riquelme is so fucking washed up, its pretty damn ridiculous. That is unless you're talking to a Boca fan, which kind of defeats the point. There is no 2006 Riquelme anymore, and even if there was Maradona's team isn't Peckerman's team.

[diego]

so what? I'm talking about whether it was a good move, not that i expect it to play out that exact way.

I do expect them to reach the QF. losing the next game wont have a lot of bearing on that. the difference between playing 1st or 2nd from group A is almost nil. if they dont make the QF, i'll be disappointed, but more in the players than the coach, the way it should be.


and the comment about riquelme/ veron - i'm talking more about the drop off, we're playing a 34 yr old in the middle of the field for a WC, expecting him to control the pace of the game, riquelme could play that role much better and nail those freekicks messi gets, he would greatly improve this team (if he were healthy, so as i said moot point)

[diego]

he's not healthy so its a moot point, but when he is healthy 2010 riquelme > 2010 veron, go ahead and start arguing about his personality, veron is just as much the diva. please tell me what improvement argentina needs to make, and if your answer is to replace maradona, please give an actual footie argument for it- or better yet, tell me who wanted to take the job when he did.

[DAF86]

so what? I'm talking about whether it was a good move, not that i expect it to play out that exact way.

I do expect them to reach the QF. losing the next game wont have a lot of bearing on that. the difference between playing 1st or 2nd from group A is almost nil. if they dont make the QF, i'll be disappointed, but more in the players than the coach, the way it should be.


and the comment about riquelme/ veron - i'm talking more about the drop off, we're playing a 34 yr old in the middle of the field for a WC, expecting him to control the pace of the game, riquelme could play that role much better and nail those freekicks messi gets, he would greatly improve this team (if he were healthy, so as i said moot point)

Riquelme and Veron have nothing in common, they don't even play the same position. And Veron even at age 35 runs a lot more than Riquelme.

And no matter how we end up doing, not selecting Zanetti and Cambiasso and picking Garce is ridiculous.

[DAF86]

he's not healthy so its a moot point, but when he is healthy 2010 riquelme > 2010 veron, go ahead and start arguing about his personality, veron is just as much the diva. please tell me what improvement argentina needs to make, and if your answer is to replace maradona, please give an actual footie argument for it- or better yet, tell me who wanted to take the job when he did.

Pretty much every coach in the world, hell I heard that even Bianchi was ready to leave his problems with Grondona on a side if he would have been asked to coach the NT.

[diego]

ok, so if argentina wins the WC with garce on the roster, you wont celebrate it or count it because it was ridiculous to take garce. we could have been better than champs with zanetti not playing a minute instead!

and riquelme and veron have a lot in common. obviously they are not the same, and veron does run more. but he isnt playing the 5 like when he was younger (masche is doing that and we need him to play flawless). he's playing further up front to help the midfield control the ball, direct the offense, and be the leader of the team. those are all things that riquelme does, on top of being the best FK taker on the team if he were on it. we already have players that run. veron is there to slow it down when necessary, again, riquelme is much better at that. its a moot point because he's had a bad stretch of injuries, otherwise he is the one player that could make a difference for this team. cambiaso? zanetti? they are good catenaccio players, but that isnt the style diego is looking for. if it werent for their spat, maradona would be playing riquelme in veron's place and it would be the right decision.

[diego]

the position was open and a bunch of good coaches left the job on the table and maradona jumped on the sinking ship. you think we would/should have gotten someone like capello or eriksson instead?

how did barca do with guardiola or reikjard (however the hell you spell it!)? you dont need tactics if you have good motivated players that can hold on to the ball and score goals.

[DAF86]

ok, so if argentina wins the WC with garce on the roster, you wont celebrate it or count it because it was ridiculous to take garce. we could have been better than champs with zanetti not playing a minute instead.

Of course I will celebrate, but the winner isn't always right, specially not in football. That's why I said no matter the result, Maradona was wrong for not taking Zanetti and Cambiasso and going for a player that we all know isn't an international level player, even Garce knows that.

Take today's game as an example. Who was our worst player? Jonas Gutierrez, but it's not his fault that Maradona put him in a position that he never plays in. Think about how much more confident we will be right now with a world class side back as Zanetti playing instead of Gutierrez.

[DAF86]

the position was open and a bunch of good coaches left the job on the table and maradona jumped on the sinking ship. you think we would/should have gotten someone like capello or eriksson instead?

how did barca do with guardiola or reikjard (however the hell you spell it!)? you dont need tactics if you have good motivated players that can hold on to the ball and score goals.

None of the things you said in here are true.

Maradona was the only one who got offered the coaching job after Basile left.

And Guardiola and Rijkaard are great tacticians.

[ElNono]

Riquelme wants to be the center of attention. And it works as long as he gives a shit. Then, when he stops caring or disappears (like against Germany last World Cup), then you're done. It's not surprise that every team where Riquelme played was either entirely dependent on him or a bust.

Veron might be getting long in the tooth, but he's nothing like that. We might lose every game from here on out, but the right thing to do was to hand over the keys to the team to your most talented player, and that's Messi now. Diego was spot on with that.

As far as the defense, tactics, and what not, don't forget Bilardo is over there, and even if Diego doesn't give a shit, you know that sneaky narigon is probably waking up players in the middle of the night and running them through videotapes. He's an obsessive compulsive guy. There's no way he doesn't have some sort of handle on it.
You can't tell me this three full-back defense didn't remind you of Brown-Ruggeri-Garre from 85/86...

[chungoman]

diego, I usually agree with about everything you write in here- almost everytime I start reading through a thread and feel like making a comment, you come up with what I wanted to say and say it in a much clearer way (although you could use some paragraphing ;)

I was just thinking that until I read your comment about Maradona leaving out Riquelme. Man, unless you're a Boca fan I can't see why anyone would think that, and this has nothing to do with him being injured or not. Just in case you forgot, Riquelme quit the team. Fucking twice.

Veron and Riquelme have absolutely nothing in common, other than both being all-world talents. In fact, I think they are the complete opposite as far as leading a team goes. Personality, as much as you try to diminish it (btw, I'm not buying that "Veron is as much a diva as Riquelme" bullshit), has a lot to do with being or not in the team, and even more so when you are supposed to be the leader of a group.

[TDMVPDPOY]

u guys do know whoever maradonna falls in love with and praise to be the next big thing, all fail...

[Spurologist]

Robert Green??????

[apalisoc_9]

Robert green for england


Algerian goalie and ghezzal are currently tied for worst Algerian player.

[diego]

if you look at the qualifying campaign, argentina did much better in the games riquelme played than the ones he didnt. messi was on the pitch the first time we lost to chile in an international match, riquelme wasnt. i shouldnt have to explain the importance of having a player who can make a freekick.

why didnt veron play the 06 WC? oh right, because every single person in argentina tarred and feathered him for the same things riquelme gets accused of- having his own cliques in the team (for ex, sorin fight), being a quitter/lazy (BOTH 98 and 02 WC), being confrontational with reporters, being injury prone. The only thing you can pin on riquelme is "retiring" from the team, but IMO only the first time counts. the second time maradona mishandled the situation and if I recall Manu said he would have done the same. How many of us consider him a diva? bottomline if you know riquelme you know he loves to play ball, the guy would play pick up games in the middle of the season because he wanted more. just because he doesnt smile the whole game doesnt mean he doesnt like being out there.

the argument is kind of stupid because I have always liked veron and defended him a lot for the 02 debacle. i'm not saying riquelme is god and veron is shit. i'm saying riquelme would bring something valuable to this team that veron can no longer do. riquelme is now the scapegoat for 06, but when he was on the pitch we were beating germany. he came off and we got tied. and italy beat germany playing the exact same style we did, the difference wasnt pirlo being a better playmaker or or a well executed freekick, it was their defense being more solid and a lucky ass outside shot from grosso.

and its quite sorry how everyone has to call me a boca fan. maybe i should just say you are all river fans and thats why you hate riquelme? do you really want to go there? at least el nono and chungoman brought a take.

and :lol at calling guardiola a tactician. van gaal and mourihno are tacticians. guardiola is a motivator.

and i'm still waiting to see who was going to take the job over diego. so far i've only heard bianchi- we all know he rejected the job numerous times, he must be a traitor like riquelme right? and if bianchi WAS coach, you know who he'd pick for playmaker (hint, it starts with an R)

oh, and FYI: jonas gutierrez started his career at velez sarsfield playing sideback. he got moved to another position for a reason, but it is false to say he never played that position, he played it for a long time (a long time ago and on a lower level, but he played it).

---

and i apologize to lefty, re-reading the thread i realize i mistook a post of TDMVPDPOY as his, lefty is not the idiot that thinks england can win the WC, sorry about that

[lefty]

if you look at the qualifying campaign, argentina did much better in the games riquelme played than the ones he didnt. messi was on the pitch the first time we lost to chile in an international match, riquelme wasnt. i shouldnt have to explain the importance of having a player who can make a freekick.

why didnt veron play the 06 WC? oh right, because every single person in argentina tarred and feathered him for the same things riquelme gets accused of- having his own cliques in the team (for ex, sorin fight), being a quitter/lazy (BOTH 98 and 02 WC), being confrontational with reporters, being injury prone. The only thing you can pin on riquelme is "retiring" from the team, but IMO only the first time counts. the second time maradona mishandled the situation and if I recall Manu said he would have done the same. How many of us consider him a diva? bottomline if you know riquelme you know he loves to play ball, the guy would play pick up games in the middle of the season because he wanted more. just because he doesnt smile the whole game doesnt mean he doesnt like being out there.

the argument is kind of stupid because I have always liked veron and defended him a lot for the 02 debacle. i'm not saying riquelme is god and veron is shit. i'm saying riquelme would bring something valuable to this team that veron can no longer do. riquelme is now the scapegoat for 06, but when he was on the pitch we were beating germany. he came off and we got tied. and italy beat germany playing the exact same style we did, the difference wasnt pirlo being a better playmaker or or a well executed freekick, it was their defense being more solid and a lucky ass outside shot from grosso.

and its quite sorry how everyone has to call me a boca fan. maybe i should just say you are all river fans and thats why you hate riquelme? do you really want to go there? at least el nono and chungoman brought a take.

and :lol at calling guardiola a tactician. van gaal and mourihno are tacticians. guardiola is a motivator.

and i'm still waiting to see who was going to take the job over diego. so far i've only heard bianchi- we all know he rejected the job numerous times, he must be a traitor like riquelme right? and if bianchi WAS coach, you know who he'd pick for playmaker (hint, it starts with an R)

oh, and FYI: jonas gutierrez started his career at velez sarsfield playing sideback. he got moved to another position for a reason, but it is false to say he never played that position, he played it for a long time (a long time ago and on a lower level, but he played it).

---

and i apologize to lefty, re-reading the thread i realize i mistook a post of TDMVPDPOY as his, lefty is not the idiot that thinks england can win the WC, sorry about that

:lol Yeah I was like "when did I post that?"

[DAF86]

Riquelme never did shit with the Argie shirt, the only ones that bitch about him needing to be in the team are Boca fans. And go figure, you're a Boca fan.

And about Maradona, if you want a name, Hiddink said he would have loved to be the coach of the Argentinian NT, of course he was never offered the position 'cause Grondona already knew that Maradona was going to be the coach even before Basile quitted.

[ElNono]

Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion. I'm personally glad we're past the Riquelme era in the NT.

And Bianchi will never coach the NT. So the point is really moot.

[diego]

Riquelme never did shit with the Argie shirt, the only ones that bitch about him needing to be in the team are Boca fans. And go figure, you're a Boca fan.

And about Maradona, if you want a name, Hiddink said he would have loved to be the coach of the Argentinian NT, of course he was never offered the position 'cause Grondona already knew that Maradona was going to be the coach even before Basile quitted.


riquelme led the 06 team to its best finish since 98, zanetti and cambiasso have done what exactly? i'll give zanetti the goal against england in 98, and he is solid. but cambiasso, whatever. riquelme was very good in the 07 copa america, and he was very good in the 06 qualys, 06 wc, and 08 olympics. the few times we've been able to beat brazil in the past 5 years, riquelme was at the heart of it. but i guess you guys are right, only boca fans like him, its not like he played for pasarella (even though he was young and unproven), bielsa (who took him out in favor of aimar, that really worked out well) pekerman, basile, maradona, barca, villareal, and now brazilian teams are trying to sign him. they are all boca fans at heart, thats why they have pity for him and gave him a chance.

2010 qualifiers with riquelme : 4 wins, 4 ties, one loss
2010 qualifiers without riquelme: 4 wins, 5 losses (including first time loss to chile and 6-1 loss to bolivia). but according to daf and manumaniac, riquelme was the one holding the team back? oh right, it's maradona's fault. but shouldnt you maradona haters be celebrating the fact that maradona took riquelme's deadweight off of poor messi's back? get your story straight guys.

--

hiddink is a mercenary, and I would NEVER hire a foreigner to coach the team. Its not xenophobia, its a NATIONAL team.

[DAF86]

Riquelme didn't lead shit in '06, the only game where he played OK was in the opener, then he sucked so much that even Pekerman (one of Riquelme's biggest homers) had to take him out in the most important match of the WC for us. Boca fans are quick to criticize Messi for never doing shit in the NT but they don't realize that he has done the same or more than Riquelme in a lot less years.

I wouldn't have hired a foreign coach either, I'm just refuting your comical argument that nobody wanted to take the Argentine NT coaching job.

P/S: I'm not a Maradona hater, I hope he wins it all of course, I just give my opinion when I think he commited an error, the same way I praise him when I agree with his decisions, do some research you'll find a lot of posts of me saying that Maradona was right with some decisions he made. You, on the other hand seem to be a Maradona worshiper, and nothing that he does seems to be wrong in your eyes.

[diego]

i already said, i disagree with how he handled riquelme, and there are a few players i would replace. i think he is recognizing his strengths and weaknesses by keeping bilardo around and basically reducing his role to motivator, and i think he's recognizing the rosters strengths and weaknesses by playing offensive football instead of trying to dominate the midfield. i think a coach like lavolpe or batista (the realistic alternatives to maradona at the time) would get the floor cut out from underneath them by the players and the media, and that maradona doesnt have that problem.

and :lol at riquelme didnt lead shit. he was being universally praised in the group stage for running the offense. he was man of the match for the serbia game. the holland game was weak because neither teams didnt gain much from winning. in the most important match of the WC, we were winning on a header off his corner. riquelme got subbed out right after abondanzieri got hurt, with his team winning- pekerman made the change to give the team more D. cambiasso came on for him and 8 minutes later we were tied. 40 minutes later we were in penalties and guess who missed, mr. cambiasso. but keeping with your logic, crespo was changed 5 minutes after riquelme, does he suck too? were we expected to thrash germany 3-0? did you expect it? with them at home? but thank god cambiasso was on the pitch instead of riquelme, who could have missed the penalty without him?

and i just remembered who said that winning doesnt make you right (in response to veron talking shit, no less). thus far its quite clear that you are a river fan, and your current coach said that. he also said riquelme is the best player in argentina and that he is indispensable on any team. i guess your team's coach is an idiot too.

[Muser]

Emile Heskey. Couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat..

:bang

[DAF86]

i already said, i disagree with how he handled riquelme, and there are a few players i would replace. i think he is recognizing his strengths and weaknesses by keeping bilardo around and basically reducing his role to motivator, and i think he's recognizing the rosters strengths and weaknesses by playing offensive football instead of trying to dominate the midfield. i think a coach like lavolpe or batista (the realistic alternatives to maradona at the time) would get the floor cut out from underneath them by the players and the media, and that maradona doesnt have that problem.

and :lol at riquelme didnt lead shit. he was being universally praised in the group stage for running the offense. he was man of the match for the serbia game. the holland game was weak because neither teams didnt gain much from winning. in the most important match of the WC, we were winning on a header off his corner. riquelme got subbed out right after abondanzieri got hurt, with his team winning- pekerman made the change to give the team more D. cambiasso came on for him and 8 minutes later we were tied. 40 minutes later we were in penalties and guess who missed, mr. cambiasso. but keeping with your logic, crespo was changed 5 minutes after riquelme, does he suck too? were we expected to thrash germany 3-0? did you expect it? with them at home? but thank god cambiasso was on the pitch instead of riquelme, who could have missed the penalty without him?

and i just remembered who said that winning doesnt make you right (in response to veron talking shit, no less). thus far its quite clear that you are a river fan, and your current coach said that. he also said riquelme is the best player in argentina and that he is indispensable on any team. i guess your team's coach is an idiot too.

Riquelme played like crap against Germany, if he hadn't, Pekerman wouldn't have changed him. No other way around it.

I agree, winning doesn't make you right, but who's arguing that? I'm saying that Riquelme isn't a world class player anymore (when was the last time he did something significant in a football pitch?) and playing for Argentina he never did much other than a couple of good games here and there. I would also like to see the link to prove that he was selected the best player in the game against Serbia, I think you're making shit up. I think Saviola was chosen the best player in that game, either way, it doesn't change the fact that in the grand scheme of that WC, Riquelme wasn't a difference maker.

I used to like him, but he's done now, he spends more time injured than playing and when he plays he can't even make a difference in a B league like ours, unlike Veron.

[TDMVPDPOY]

cant choose, can i offer team australia hahaha

[diego]

I been busy, and this is almost dead, but you accused me of making shit up, so:


If he plays well Argentina play well, and two days ago, beneath the closed roof of the magnificent Stadium AufSchalke in Gelsenkirchen, Riquelme offered those of us fortunate enough to be there a masterclass in how to move and pass and thus dictate a game. The players of Serbia & Montenegro, thrashed 6-0, could do little but look on in baffled fascination as Riquelme, the Fifa man of the match even though he did not score, destroyed them with the brilliant simplicity of his passing and movement.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/jun/18/worldcup2006.sport8

and, roughly paraphrased for the non spanish readers


Good footy palate
Said Iniesta: "I like to watch Riquelme, I had the luck to spend time with him and play with him, he's among the best i've seen".
Said Cappa: "Riquelme the player to me is the best there is by experience in argentine futbol. He has a great knowledge of the game, skill and pause. The pause is speed in futbol. Without pause futbol is crashing. He sets people up, has personality. To me he is indispensable in any team including the arg national team. I'm on the side of those who believe he is among the best players, that he has to play on any club and the national team."


http://de-buen-pie.blogspot.com/2010/05/bostero-hinchando-por-river-algunos.html

posted may 2nd, though I believe he said it at the start of the season. but its a pretty clear endorsement, do you agree or disagree with it?


if you think he is injured and done, fine. but the people that act like he killed the team are reactionaries (thats why I laugh that the same people that celebrate riquelme being gone tend to be the ones that despise maradona- parrot the media much?).

the 06 germany game, riquelme had the team winning, and he kept possession of the ball while the germans hammered him. you think its a coincidence he was taken off a minute after we subbed our goalie? pekerman realized the germans were going to attack the sub goalie and didnt have faith in riquelme, thinking with him tired and getting no love from the refs might lose one of those balls and give them a counter attack so he brought cambiasso in to try and shore up the back. argentina lost control of the tempo shortly after, and cambiasso failed to shore up the back, and germany scored. to make matters worse, cambiasso failed a penalty riquelme would have took (the first no less, instead of ayala choking right off the bat). its no guarantee he would have made it, and its no guarantee that he would have been able to put the match to sleep (though he's done it many times before for boca especially in the libertadores- just takes the ball and takes her for a nap). but that loss was not his fault, his +/- that game was 1 (and he was involved in the goal).


and you know his freekicks are substantially better than anyone else on the team. that is extremely valuable in a single elimination tournament. but he is injured anyway, so i'm done arguing.

[ElNono]

Stop excusing Riquelme. We watched the same game. Besides taking the corner kick when we scored, he disappeared. He does that often enough, and since the team is built for him, you're done.

He's a guy that could never be part of any team. The team had to be built around him. Exactly why he only lasted a few months in Barcelona and was never signed up by any major club in the world and had to head back home.

He always has been extremely talented, but very egoistical and with a very shitty personality.

He had his opportunity with Pekerman and Basile. It's time to move on...

[mabrignani]

Who do you think is the worst player on each national squad?
You know, the guy that's likely to play but you can't figure out what the coach sees on him.

I'll kick it off with Argentina...

Gabriel Heinze: His presence in this team, previous national teams and top clubs is among the greatest unsolved mysteries in the world, right up there with the egyptian pyramids and UFOs.
This is a guy with complete lack of basic technical skills, his defense is below par, misses assignments constantly...
The game against Mexico last World Cup should have been his last, in case there were any doubts, yet the guys always finds a way not to lose his spot on the team.

Who else you got?


EPIC FAIL!!! hahaha dumbass sayin heinze sucks only to have him score the only goal....hes better than messi hahaha

[ElNono]

EPIC FAIL!!! hahaha dumbass sayin heinze sucks only to have him score the only goal....

I did mention eating my crow in the game thread...


hes better than messi hahaha

:rolleyes

[usdane]

Well for Denmark the worst player has to be Simon Poulsen after his own goal against Holland. He better not see anymore playing time.

[ElNono]

Poulsen redeemed himself after saving another goal on the line though...

[diego]

He's a guy that could never be part of any team. The team had to be built around him. Exactly why he only lasted a few months in Barcelona and was never signed up by any major club in the world and had to head back home.

He always has been extremely talented, but very egoistical and with a very shitty personality.

He had his opportunity with Pekerman and Basile. It's time to move on...

you talking about maradona or riquelme?

and re: the germany game, basically you guys are arguing that argentina should have won at least 2-0. you guys are arguing that the team being up 1-0 wasnt good enough, because argentina was clearly superior to germany. you obviously feel the refs had nothing to do with it because you blame it all on riquelme, even though he wasnt on the field when we went down. are you saying that team would have beat germany had cambiasso (or messi or whoever) started in riquelme's place? please, elaborate. no matter how shitty you are arguing riquelme's game was, he had his team up 1 with control of the ball with 12 minutes left. please explain to me what was so bad about his game.

[DAF86]

you talking about maradona or riquelme?

and re: the germany game, basically you guys are arguing that argentina should have won at least 2-0. you guys are arguing that the team being up 1-0 wasnt good enough, because argentina was clearly superior to germany. you obviously feel the refs had nothing to do with it because you blame it all on riquelme, even though he wasnt on the field when we went down. are you saying that team would have beat germany had cambiasso (or messi or whoever) started in riquelme's place? please, elaborate. no matter how shitty you are arguing riquelme's game was, he had his team up 1 with control of the ball with 12 minutes left. please explain to me what was so bad about his game.

If you wouldn't be so busy changing the subject of the argument, you would realize that all we're saying is that Riquelme didn't play well against Germany, and even the biggest Riquelme homer would agree with that.

[diego]

so now he didnt play well against germany, before it was that he sucked and never did shit in an argie shirt. whatever. I said that riquelme would add to this team, and you, manumaniac, elnono and chungoman immediately started scoffing without ever addressing the arguments I made in riquelme's favor. and to top it off you and manumaniac are butthurt about cambiasso and zanetti not being there, when if anyone had "an opportunity and now its time to move on", its them.

[DAF86]

so now he didnt play well against germany, before it was that he sucked and never did shit in an argie shirt. whatever. I said that riquelme would add to this team, and you, manumaniac, elnono and chungoman immediately started scoffing without ever addressing the arguments I made in riquelme's favor. and to top it off you and manumaniac are butthurt about cambiasso and zanetti not being there, when if anyone had "an opportunity and now its time to move on", its them.

Cambiasso and Zanetti are playing at a world class level right now, Riquelme can't even play two games in a row. If he was still playing at his best level I would have liked to have him on the 23 men list, but they way he's playing right now, he doesn't deserve even to be considered. Besides Cambiasso and Zanetti aren't prima donnas.

And yes, he hasn't really done much in his career with the NT.

[TDMVPDPOY]

riq and messi are 2 diff players with the ball...

riq his always looking at the passing lanes

while messi he can take on the defense and force them to collapse on him to find the open man for a pass....

both are good

[Slo spurs fan]

We don´t have any bad players. :)

[ElNono]

you talking about maradona or riquelme?

If I said that he had his opportunity with Pekerman, who do you think I'm talking about? :rolleyes


and re: the germany game, basically you guys are arguing that argentina should have won at least 2-0.

No. That's not what we're arguing.


you guys are arguing that the team being up 1-0 wasnt good enough, because argentina was clearly superior to germany.

No. We're arguing that being that Riquelme was in charge to generate offense for us, and the fact that we basically shot 3 times at goal all game long, he factually sucked. And he did.


you obviously feel the refs had nothing to do with it because you blame it all on riquelme, even though he wasnt on the field when we went down.

The refs had nothing to do with it. You could blame Pekerman for taking him off the pitch.


are you saying that team would have beat germany had cambiasso (or messi or whoever) started in riquelme's place? please, elaborate.

No, and that's the problem. If you want Riquelme playing for your team, you have to build it around him, and hope he shows up. You can't have two creators, or have him play a role. He has to be the center of the universe, or he quits on you. As constructed, that team needed Riquelme to win, but Riquelme didn't show up.

In all honesty, and I've said this before, after the Korea/Japan debacle, I had no problem giving him a shot as the star of the team. I actually wanted that to happen, because everybody was clamoring for him to be that. But after 2006, and seeing he only shows up whenever he wants, you just can't hand him the keys to the team anymore, especially after the fact that we have a lot of talented players around, including one that is way more talented than him.


no matter how shitty you are arguing riquelme's game was, he had his team up 1 with control of the ball with 12 minutes left. please explain to me what was so bad about his game.

Ayala had that team 1 up with 12 minutes left. Riquelme took the corner kick in no different fashion than Verón took his in the last game. Besides of the fact that he can't be bothered to cover anybody, no matter how important the game is, he simply disappeared from the game. No moving the ball, no passing around, not looking up the field, nothing. You know, all that 'game' you loved to bring up when you said he won 'man of the match' against a scrub Serbia team, that kind of game was MIA against Germany.

But hey, I have no problem with that 'test'. It didn't work and it was time to move on. I was actually more angry with Basile for going back to the same old shit after the '06 failure than with Pekerman for having a go with Riquelme.

I'm just thankful we don't depend on his mood on the day of the game anymore.

[ElNono]

riq and messi are 2 diff players with the ball...

riq his always looking at the passing lanes

while messi he can take on the defense and force them to collapse on him to find the open man for a pass....

both are good

Plus Riquelme is in the twilight of his career, where Messi is just getting started.
Messi can also play a team game, and actually relies more on it than Riquelme.
Last, but not least, they both play different positions. Riquelme is more of a midfielder, where Messi is more of a forward.
Unfortunately, Riquelme doesn't think he has to do any marking, and neither does Messi. Now, for a forward, that's pretty common and not as much of a problem than for a midfielder.

[ElNono]

so now he didnt play well against germany, before it was that he sucked and never did shit in an argie shirt. whatever. I said that riquelme would add to this team, and you, manumaniac, elnono and chungoman immediately started scoffing without ever addressing the arguments I made in riquelme's favor. and to top it off you and manumaniac are butthurt about cambiasso and zanetti not being there, when if anyone had "an opportunity and now its time to move on", its them.

Let's get things straight, so we don't generalize:
- I have no problem with Cambiasso and Zanetti being out
- I have no problem with Diego coaching
- I do have a problem with Riquelme in the team for a number of reasons we've been discussing
- Riquelme never really did squat with the national team (that is, the grownups, not the U20 or U16).

I like the current team. I think it's a team we can build on. With a few exceptions, they're mostly young. The back is probably where we would need to rebuild a bit eventually, but overall, I think this is a good, solid team.
We'll see if it's championship worthy or not soon enough.

[ElNono]

dieguito, no te enojes. La próxima lo hacemos con una picada de por medio y listo. ;)

[TDMVPDPOY]

Plus Riquelme is in the twilight of his career, where Messi is just getting started.
Messi can also play a team game, and actually relies more on it than Riquelme.
Last, but not least, they both play different positions. Riquelme is more of a midfielder, where Messi is more of a forward.
Unfortunately, Riquelme doesn't think he has to do any marking, and neither does Messi. Now, for a forward, that's pretty common and not as much of a problem than for a midfielder.

riq was never known to be a good defensive stopper, you can always subsidize his weakness with 3 other midfielders who can defend well plus ur back 4....

[ElNono]

riq was never known to be a good defensive stopper, you can always subsidize his weakness with 3 other midfielders who can defend well plus ur back 4....

Exactly. You always had to make up for it in some other way. Pekerman did by playing a midfield duo with Cambiasso and Mascherano.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think the only downfall for riq career was he was a shithouse when he was at barca, then again same can be said for saviola