Trade for the #3

[spurnash]

First, I would like to say I have been an avid reader of Spurstalk for years.....Love it....Great info, great comments, everyone on this site does a great job.

I myself have never posted before so please be gentle. :toast

I got a real kick out of story of the spurs moving up the the #3 spot a couple weeks ago. I agreed with most of the commentary that basicly said the spurs couldn't trade Parker for it because G. Hill is not a true point guard and that not having Parker in the end would kill us. With this in mind though why wouldn't we trade G. Hill and D. Blair for it. Here are my thoughts:

I hate small ball, I believe the only way we are going get our 5th championship is to go back to the 1997 - 2005 spurs. To do so we need a second dominate defensive and offensive 4/5 but these guys are nearly impossible to find and i believe D. Favors could be one of them. I love D. Blair, i believe he will only get better but the reality is for us to dominate the paint on the defensive end D. Blair is just not long enough. Therefore i propose if you have T.D., Favors and Splitter as your rotation for your front 3 you are set and you will not miss Blair a bit.

As for moving G. Hill we will absolutly miss him, I love this guy. Nevertheless, any trade is about replacement value and it is simply much easier to replace G. Hill a combo guard than a long dominant big. Will N. DeColo work out, can we fill in from the draft (I do like 2nd round pick Mikhail Torrance)? Maybe / maybe not, but if we can solidify the paint we have a shot to keeping this run going.

I will enjoy reading your responses.

Go spurs go :flag:

[PDXSpursFan]

What makes you think that we can get the #3 pick for Hill and Blair??? :nope

[eisfeld]

Another soul trying to contribute meaningfully on it's way to being eaten alive and being devoured by trolls.

[spurnash]

I agree with you that the proposal i am making is more likely to be turned down by the Nets than the Spurs.... As far as trade proposals go, i do not think this is a crazy, out of the question type offer. As far as the Nets go, it all depends how much they like Favors, if they believe that he is the next big thing, they won't go for it, nevertheless Favors, just like everyone else in this draft is a question mark, Hill is at a peak value right now after his playoff showing and Blair did not look like a second round pick to anyone. IF they feel they can match Blair with Lopez, G. Hill maybe enough to get them to bite...it also could take the 20th pick or a future pick to sweeten the deal.

Now the question is would you (the spurs) do the deal?

[dbestpro]

Moving Parker to NJ has more to do with star appeal than pure basketball skill. Parker is able to provide both and thus becomes an interesting target for the new Russian billionaire owner. Hill and Blair just gives them more of what they already have and will do little to convince another major free agent to go to NJ.

[BadMotorscooter]

New Jersey wont trade the #3 pick for two bench players, especially when neither is even a 6th man type impact player.

[elbamba]

The Spurs have limited role players. This move steals the only two and you will never get the value that Blair and Hill have because they are key players with small contracts.

The Spurs have to either move Tony/Manu to get back a piece that will have value. Manu is almost certainly out of the trade rumors because his new contract is way too much.

I would like to believe that they could move Jefferson but I just don't see a team taking him and giving up a piece that will truely help the Spurs.

Tony is the only piece we have that another team would want. I don't think we would get Parker value on the market either. I don't see the Spurs pulling the trigger on any major trades. They need to focus on the draft and Splitter. With Splitter and a quality pick, we will have the depth that we lacked this year.

[Drewlius]

Biggest mistake the Spurs FO could do at this point is trade a young, incredibly talented SG/PG with 2 years in the system, and an incredibly solid 2nd year player who hasn't had an opportunity to actually play. Regardless of who you can get for the two, I think it's a terrible mistake, and taking steps backward.

[DesignatedT]

great thread.

[tdunk21]

pop will not trade hill in his dreams...so he will not trade him in reality....hill and blair are supposed to be the future of the spurs....if derrick favors is a real good player....then blair and some one else for the 3rd pick would be fine.....thats only if favors can replicate blair's hustle for rebounds.......i wouldnt give up hill and blair for an unproven guy....

[tdunk21]

the biggest mistake our FO did was to trade bruce for RJ who still cant adjust in our system.....am all for getting rid of RJ if we can...but am sure RJ will play good in the next season coz his contract is expiring and he will work hard for a real good contract....

[4lifecowboy]

I'm still an advocate of the Parker + Blair for Harris and a the #3 overall if we dont have to include our 20th pick. That is an influx of youth and a young point that contract expires along with Manu and Timmy.

[jag]

Moving Parker to NJ has more to do with star appeal than pure basketball skill. Parker is able to provide both and thus becomes an interesting target for the new Russian billionaire owner. Hill and Blair just gives them more of what they already have and will do little to convince another major free agent to go to NJ.

:lol

[ffadicted]

:lol

why is that funny

[Thomas82]

I feel like there is a silver lining to both options, whether we get Tiago Splitter or Derrick Favors. I would be happy with either one of them. Either way, the Spurs would have another big to pair with Tim Duncan.

Tiago Splitter: If nothing else, we wouldn't be able to say it was a wasted draft pick if he comes over. He would have an immediate impact on the team, giving Tim Duncan the best center he has played with since David Robinson, and the Spurs the much-needed interior presence to go along with TD. No need to go into details about the tools Splitter would bring to the team, because there are enough threads about him on here that already do that.

Derrick Favors: If the Spurs can somehow get Favors, that would also be a huge plus. With me living in Alabama, I got a chance to see a pretty good bit of his games at Georgia Tech, and liked what I saw. He has a nice combination of length, athleticism, quickness, good awareness for somebody as young as he is, and is a pretty good defender and should be one of the best in the league with some polishing. From what I heard from the announcers, he also has a good work ethic, and that's a neccesity for being a Spur. He supposedly fits the profile of what the Spurs have been looking for since David Robinson retired, and could potentially take over for Tim Duncan as the franchise player one day.

I'm well aware that Derrick Favors is a project, but I like his chances of becoming a dominant big man one day if he comes to the Spurs mainly for 2 reasons:

1.) He would be mentored by the G.O.A.T. power forward; a top 10 all-time great regardless of position.

2.) Since he wouldn't be going to a losing team, there wouldn't be any ridiculous expectations for him. He could be a difference maker without the pressure of carrying the team. I believe that's a major factor in why the success rate for high draft picks is so low.


Like I said, I would be happy with either move if for no other reason than Tim Duncan having a legit big man next to him. But the more I read and hear about the possibilty of the Spurs trading up to get Derrick Favors, no matter how big or small that possibility might be, the more I'm in favor of that happening. The big question, and the key to making that happen obviously is what they would have to give up to make that happen. I do rememember several years back either Peter Holt or R.C. Buford saying that the Spurs planned on using TD in the David Robinson role toward the end of his career.

I strongly believe that if you have any kind of chance to get a potential franchise big man, you at least have to look into it. The more things change, the more they stay the same. In other words, as much as the game has changed over the years, one thing has remained constant: The way to build your team is from the inside out. The league might be a guard-driven league and all that, but you won't win a championship without a dominant (or highly skilled) big man. Here are a couple of stats as proof:

-56 out of the 64 NBA champions (including the current NBA Finals teams) have had a dominant/high skill big man- either a center or power forward.

-35 out the 55 league MVPs have went to either a center or power forward.


One other thing, I know I'm preaching to the chior on this one, but obviously the workload on Tim Duncan is way to much. It's making him look older than what he is. I feel like even at 34 years old, with a dependable center next to him, he could still be dominant. Here is the way I see it:

The lack of another dependable big has led to TD playing most of the game these days as the sole big on the floor. Which means that in addition to the normal 20/10 he puts up, he also has to help make up for the 10 rebounds a game they lose from not having that other big next to him. He also has to guard the best big on the floor for the other team, and block all the shots.

With him being the only big on the floor most of the time, that means the Spurs are going small. When they go small, that means Richard Jefferson moves over to power forward. As a result, you are asking him not only to get the normal 6 rebounds expected from a small forward, but split the center's rebounds with Tim Duncan. It's unrealistic to expect that to happen every night. So in essence, TD is having to give production for both post positions which again, at his age and miles he has, is too much for him, and that's why he wears down after the All-Star break.


The Spurs need to go back to the Twin Tower approach, that's what got them the championships in the first place. Whether they get Tiago Splitter or Derrick Favors, they need another big in there with TD in the worst way, along with a peremeter defender. This is just how I see it.

[tdunk21]

^ good points

[Chomag]

^ Agreed, very good and well thought out.

It might be time to give up on trying to have astretch the floor big next to TD and make TD the stretch big if Spurs must have one. I honestly think TD has the range especialy if he works on it alot this summer. IT would keep him from being banged up so much.

[Thomas82]

^ good points


Thanks man!! I'll even copy and post this in the Think Tank.

[4lifecowboy]

I feel like there is a silver lining to both options, whether we get Tiago Splitter or Derrick Favors. I would be happy with either one of them. Either way, the Spurs would have another big to pair with Tim Duncan.

Tiago Splitter: If nothing else, we wouldn't be able to say it was a wasted draft pick if he comes over. He would have an immediate impact on the team, giving Tim Duncan the best center he has played with since David Robinson, and the Spurs the much-needed interior presence to go along with TD. No need to go into details about the tools Splitter would bring to the team, because there are enough threads about him on here that already do that.

Derrick Favors: If the Spurs can somehow get Favors, that would also be a huge plus. With me living in Alabama, I got a chance to see a pretty good bit of his games at Georgia Tech, and liked what I saw. He has a nice combination of length, athleticism, quickness, good awareness for somebody as young as he is, and is a pretty good defender and should be one of the best in the league with some polishing. From what I heard from the announcers, he also has a good work ethic, and that's a neccesity for being a Spur. He supposedly fits the profile of what the Spurs have been looking for since David Robinson retired, and could potentially take over for Tim Duncan as the franchise player one day.

I'm well aware that Derrick Favors is a project, but I like his chances of becoming a dominant big man one day if he comes to the Spurs mainly for 2 reasons:

1.) He would be mentored by the G.O.A.T. power forward; a top 10 all-time great regardless of position.

2.) Since he wouldn't be going to a losing team, there wouldn't be any ridiculous expectations for him. He could be a difference maker without the pressure of carrying the team. I believe that's a major factor in why the success rate for high draft picks is so low.


Like I said, I would be happy with either move if for no other reason than Tim Duncan having a legit big man next to him. But the more I read and hear about the possibilty of the Spurs trading up to get Derrick Favors, no matter how big or small that possibility might be, the more I'm in favor of that happening. The big question, and the key to making that happen obviously is what they would have to give up to make that happen. I do rememember several years back either Peter Holt or R.C. Buford saying that the Spurs planned on using TD in the David Robinson role toward the end of his career.

I strongly believe that if you have any kind of chance to get a potential franchise big man, you at least have to look into it. The more things change, the more they stay the same. In other words, as much as the game has changed over the years, one thing has remained constant: The way to build your team is from the inside out. The league might be a guard-driven league and all that, but you won't win a championship without a dominant (or highly skilled) big man. Here are a couple of stats as proof:

-56 out of the 64 NBA champions (including the current NBA Finals teams) have had a dominant/high skill big man- either a center or power forward.

-35 out the 55 league MVPs have went to either a center or power forward.


One other thing, I know I'm preaching to the chior on this one, but obviously the workload on Tim Duncan is way to much. It's making him look older than what he is. I feel like even at 34 years old, with a dependable center next to him, he could still be dominant. Here is the way I see it:

The lack of another dependable big has led to TD playing most of the game these days as the sole big on the floor. Which means that in addition to the normal 20/10 he puts up, he also has to help make up for the 10 rebounds a game they lose from not having that other big next to him. He also has to guard the best big on the floor for the other team, and block all the shots.

With him being the only big on the floor most of the time, that means the Spurs are going small. When they go small, that means Richard Jefferson moves over to power forward. As a result, you are asking him not only to get the normal 6 rebounds expected from a small forward, but split the center's rebounds with Tim Duncan. It's unrealistic to expect that to happen every night. So in essence, TD is having to give production for both post positions which again, at his age and miles he has, is too much for him, and that's why he wears down after the All-Star break.


The Spurs need to go back to the Twin Tower approach, that's what got them the championships in the first place. Whether they get Tiago Splitter or Derrick Favors, they need another big in there with TD in the worst way, along with a peremeter defender. This is just how I see it.


Thats what I'm talking about, but better then that why cant we get both Splitter and Favors (via trade with NJ) I say NJ cause getting a guard like Harris to help replace the production we lose by trading Parker is mandatory. If we could get Harris and the #3 pick for say Parker and Blair while keeping our pick we would be silly not to do this. We could end up with a talented youth infusion added along with a solid champion pedigreed veteran core, that could give us plenty of ammo for another few years run at the title(s).

[spurnash]

Great points! As far as i am concerned Thomas82 and 4lifecowboy gets the prize.


The reason I started this thread by asking the question would you trade hill and blair for favors, (i understand the nets may not even consider such a deal), was to focus on the fact that we need T. Duncan II (Again I know there will never be a another T. Duncan).

We need to allow T. Duncan to become D. Robinson of 97 - 02 (I believe he will be a better version of that) to do so we need an extremley strong 4/5 to do it and you can not get those guys unless you get a top 3 pick. Blair is great but short, Tiago will be solid but not a superstar (please don't expect him to be Pau), and all the stretch 4's in the world will not help us.

For the first time in several years there seems to be a possibilty and enough tradable assets that the Spurs could make a push for a guy who could fill that role, luckily he might be the third pick in the draft not the first....and i say we should go for it and go for it aggressively. We will absolutley have to lose either one or a couple of our favorite players to do this, but i think the trade off will be worth our while because let's face it.....we are spoiled....we want championships and not just 50 win seasons, a trade like this might blow up in our face but something like this is what it is going to take to keep this run going.

[DPG21920]

Yuck. I hate Devin Harris. Also, none of the big men seem good enough to give up TP for imo.

[1usamotorsports.com]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l166/usamotorsports/Cpowell.jpg


Trading Hill lol

[4lifecowboy]

Yuck. I hate Devin Harris. Also, none of the big men seem good enough to give up TP for imo.
Do people really believe TP is a max player? He's not. He is a very good role player, he is Scottie Pippen an above average player that fell into a perfect situation that showcased is talents and hid his flaws. Besides scoring what other talent do he bring, he don't make those around him better, he is not a defensive stopper, and above all that he is not a leader. If he is barkin about max money (which he is) then you trade him if you can get a team to give you superstar type returns for him.

[Thomas82]

Great points! As far as i am concerned Thomas82 and 4lifecowboy gets the prize.


The reason I started this thread by asking the question would you trade hill and blair for favors, (i understand the nets may not even consider such a deal), was to focus on the fact that we need T. Duncan II (Again I know there will never be a another T. Duncan).

We need to allow T. Duncan to become D. Robinson of 97 - 03 (I believe he will be a better version of that) to do so we need an extremley strong 4/5 to do it and you can not get those guys unless you get a top 3 pick. Blair is great but short, Tiago will be solid but not a superstar (please don't expect him to be Pau), and all the stretch 4's in the world will not help us.

For the first time in several years there seems to be a possibilty and enough tradable assets that the Spurs could make a push for a guy who could fill that role, luckily he might be the third pick in the draft not the first....and i say we should go for it and go for it aggressively. We will absolutley have to lose either one or a couple of our favorite players to do this, but i think the trade off will be worth our while because let's face it.....we are spoiled....we want championships and not just 50 win seasons, a trade like this might blow up in our face but something like this is what it is going to take to keep this run going.


Do people really believe TP is a max player? He's not. He is a very good role player, he is Scottie Pippen an above average player that fell into a perfect situation that showcased is talents and hid his flaws. Besides scoring what other talent do he bring, he don't make those around him better, he is not a defensive stopper, and above all that he is not a leader. If he is barkin about max money (which he is) then you trade him if you can get a team to give you superstar type returns for him.

The more I think about it, the more I believe there is a strong possibility that Tony Parker might walk after next year, and that's why I believe we should at least look into getting something for him.

One other thing, I have seen and heard an awful lot of people saying that Spurs fan are spoiled from the 4 championships. I will agree, to a certain extent. It's easy to say we got spoiled when your favorite team doesn't even have 1 championship, or if you can't see how obvious it is the the Spurs haven't completely maximized their chances to win championships during the last 13 years, or at least the last 5. I actually believe we should have more, even with the way 2004 and 2006 turned out.

With all due respect to the Spurs front office, for every good choice they made, they made a head-scratcher to cancel it out. I guess you can say that about every team, but I honestly do believe that we wasted a couple of Tim Duncan's best years. I'm well aware that for whatever reason, we haven't been able to attract any big-ticket free agents, but I still believe we could have done some things different.

[manufan10]

Thomas82 is bringing in some great points. :worthy:

[RiverwalkParade]

Is it silly to entertain the following:

Trade TP/Blair for Harris/Williams and the 3rd

Draft Favors

Trade Favors rights, RJ and Dyess to Philly for Iggy/Kapono/Future 1st?

[cd98]

NJ now saying that it won't trade its pick.

[manufan10]

Talk is that NJ is looking at a trade with NO: Chris Paul for the #3 pick.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_100607.html

[jjvalerieD]

[QUOTE=manufan10;4406814]Talk is that NJ is looking at a trade with NO: Chris Paul for the #3 pick.

I'll try to do the CP3 trade than Parker trade too,if I am the NJ boss.

[GSH]

So we want to get rid of Hill and Blair because they aren't going to dominate. The guy we get IS going to dominate. Sounds good so far.

Now on the other side. That team is going to trade a guy who will dominate for two guys who won't dominate. Why do they do that, exactly?

Why not eliminate all the uncertainty, and trade Jefferson for Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. The salaries work. And as long as we believe that a team is willing to give up a dominant player for lesser value, why not aim higher?

You're right that Hill is not a true point guard. Of course, Parker is a scoring PG much more than a "pure" PG. But between Ginobili, Hill, and Temple we would have what we need to win. We could also pick up Chris Duhon on the cheap this off season. He's a pass-first, half-court PG, and he's underrated after playing in D'Antoni's run and gun offense.

[Cry Havoc]

Talk is that NJ is looking at a trade with NO: Chris Paul for the #3 pick.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_100607.html

I refuse to believe that Paul would ever be traded for a draft pick, unless it's a massive salary dump.

That would go into the history books right alongside the Gasol trade.

[ynh]

God damn you people overvalue your players. Hill and Blair = 3rd pick in the draft? Parker = 3rd pick and Harris. Wow. The best is the person saying NJ would want Parker because he has star appeal.. Really? Outside of San Antonio?

[Mikesatx]

God damn you people overvalue your players. Hill and Blair = 3rd pick in the draft? Parker = 3rd pick and Harris. Wow. The best is the person saying NJ would want Parker because he has star appeal.. Really? Outside of San Antonio?

Reality Check. Painful but true.

[Vinnie_Johnson]

God damn you people overvalue your players. Hill and Blair = 3rd pick in the draft? Parker = 3rd pick and Harris. Wow. The best is the person saying NJ would want Parker because he has star appeal.. Really? Outside of San Antonio?

Ahhh snap it is like telling the fat girl she is pretty.:lmao

[Baseline]

At this very moment, Tony Parker has at least $50 million in the bank and Eva Longoria as his wife.

But if he found out he had to play for Avery Johnson, he would shoot himself in the head in less than five minutes.

[The ADMIRAL 50]

great points from a lot of the posters so far. i'd just like to toss my two cents in on the potential tradeability of tony.

as a life long spur fan and absolute lover of my main man tp, i've been telling everyone i know we shouldnt trade him, but its starting to get increasingly difficult to reconcile that emotionally motivated stance with an understanding of the league and our situation. the spurs need youth, athleticism, and, more than anything, a young athletic big man. the spurs would love more than anything to have their all-time-great-mvp-trained all-time great mvp bring along the next franchise center piece. derrick favors could be that guy, and its beginning to become quite clear that, come tony's free agency, the spurs are gonna have to commit a lot of money to keep him, and could easily lose out to someone with deeper pockets. losing tony without getting anything in return would definitely expedite the death of of an era, and signing him to a big money contract with manu already on the books would probably just prolong it as we slowly declined. if the spurs could somehow work a trade with tony parker and the #3 pick as the principals and we grabbed favors...i cant say my heartbreak wouldnt be more than tempered by my excitement.

that said, favors is universally described as "raw," and a "project," and drafting high on potential almost never works out well (for every tyreke evans theres 8 or so kwames and tskitishvilis). if we pull that trigger a lot of pressure will be on favors, sure he wouldnt be expected to carry the team like most top 5 picks, but the hopes of any sustained spurs success would be riding on him. if that deal goes down the FO has to be SOLD this kid is a player.

[Mikesatx]

The reality is there has been one team led to the finals with a point guard as the undisputed best player on the tem and that was Philly with Iverson. They got there in a very weak eastern conference and were no match in the finals. Does anyone believe that Utah will make it with Deron Williams as the best player on the team or New Orleans will make it with Paul as the best player. I understand the loyalty but for God's sake we won a tiltle with Avery Johnson. The Lakers are poised to win a title with Fisher who was a backup before he went back to LA.

[AusSpursFan]

Biggest mistake the Spurs FO could do at this point is trade a young, incredibly talented SG/PG with 2 years in the system, and an incredibly solid 2nd year player who hasn't had an opportunity to actually play. Regardless of who you can get for the two, I think it's a terrible mistake, and taking steps backward.

totally agree, we have been lucky enough to come across some great talent in the last two drafts. Why would you throw this away for an unproven player. Hill and Blair are not only great to watch but represent something this club has not had for a while, "talented young players". Go back to the drawing board, there are plenty of better options. Who is to say we don't come up with another draft steal at #20?

[Thomas82]

The reality is there has been one team led to the finals with a point guard as the undisputed best player on the team and that was Philly with Iverson. They got there in a very weak eastern conference and were no match in the finals. Does anyone believe that Utah will make it with Deron Williams as the best player on the team or New Orleans will make it with Paul as the best player. I understand the loyalty but for God's sake we won a tiltle with Avery Johnson. The Lakers are poised to win a title with Fisher who was a backup before he went back to LA.


This is exactly what I meant when I said that even with this influx of guards in the NBA, it still doesn't change the fact that the way to build a team is from the inside out.

It would be a tragedy, just downright criminal if Tim Duncan never got a chance to mentor and pass down his wisdom and knowledge to a young C/PF the way David Robinson did for him. Hell, even David Robinson had Moses Malone as a teammate for a year. Coincidentally, that was the year he won his MVP ('94-'95).

[Muser]

Why would any of you want to trade a former finals MVP for an unknown?

[Agloco]

....With this in mind though why wouldn't we trade G. Hill and D. Blair for it......

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.........I won't bash the noob........:lol

A good bit of advice: Think of any trade you propose from the other teams perspective first. If you view it as highway robbery, it's probably a product of not enough research, or just blatant homerism. I'm guilty of the exact same thing, but I only think about those things in my mind (I don't post em!! :lol)

Good try though. :toast

[Agloco]

Derrick Favors: If the Spurs can somehow get Favors, that would also be a huge plus. With me living in Alabama, I got a chance to see a pretty good bit of his games at Georgia Tech, and liked what I saw. He has a nice combination of length, athleticism, quickness, good awareness for somebody as young as he is, and is a pretty good defender and should be one of the best in the league with some polishing. From what I heard from the announcers, he also has a good work ethic, and that's a neccesity for being a Spur. He supposedly fits the profile of what the Spurs have been looking for since David Robinson retired, and could potentially take over for Tim Duncan as the franchise player one day.

I'm well aware that Derrick Favors is a project, but I like his chances of becoming a dominant big man one day if he comes to the Spurs mainly for 2 reasons:

1.) He would be mentored by the G.O.A.T. power forward; a top 10 all-time great regardless of position.

2.) Since he wouldn't be going to a losing team, there wouldn't be any ridiculous expectations for him. He could be a difference maker without the pressure of carrying the team. I believe that's a major factor in why the success rate for high draft picks is so low.

Like I said, I would be happy with either move if for no other reason than Tim Duncan having a legit big man next to him. But the more I read and hear about the possibilty of the Spurs trading up to get Derrick Favors, no matter how big or small that possibility might be, the more I'm in favor of that happening. The big question, and the key to making that happen obviously is what they would have to give up to make that happen. I do rememember several years back either Peter Holt or R.C. Buford saying that the Spurs planned on using TD in the David Robinson role toward the end of his career.

-56 out of the 64 NBA champions (including the current NBA Finals teams) have had a dominant/high skill big man- either a center or power forward.

-35 out the 55 league MVPs have went to either a center or power forward.


One other thing, I know I'm preaching to the chior on this one, but obviously the workload on Tim Duncan is way to much. It's making him look older than what he is. I feel like even at 34 years old, with a dependable center next to him, he could still be dominant. Here is the way I see it:

The lack of another dependable big has led to TD playing most of the game these days as the sole big on the floor. Which means that in addition to the normal 20/10 he puts up, he also has to help make up for the 10 rebounds a game they lose from not having that other big next to him. He also has to guard the best big on the floor for the other team, and block all the shots.



First of all, good points in general but:

Red- Look closely at what I outlined. On the one hand you acknowledge that Favors is a project. You then proceed to claim that having him would give us a "legit" big man next to Duncan. What's it gonna be? He's not both. How long do you think it would take for him to become "polished"? I see another year of learning and sputtering with him in the mix, much like with RJ. He's a great talent, but he's absolutely raw and needs more time than we have to get it together.

If Timmy is 30, or if the Spurs aren't contenders, I'm all for this move. Otherwise, I've gotta go with talent that's at least "semi-proven" in Splitter for now.

Blue - Interesting stat, also 6 of the 8 teams that did not have a dominant big man in the center had the GOAT instead.......

[Thomas82]

Why would any of you want to trade a former finals MVP for an unknown?

Everybody is an unknown at some point in their careers. Besides, there is a real possibility that Tony Parker could leave next year without the Spurs getting compensation.

[Thomas82]

First of all, good points in general but:

Red- Look closely at what I outlined. On the one hand you acknowledge that Favors is a project. You then proceed to claim that having him would give us a "legit" big man next to Duncan. What's it gonna be? He's not both. How long do you think it would take for him to become "polished"? I see another year of learning and sputtering with him in the mix, much like with RJ. He's a great talent, but he's absolutely raw and needs more time than we have to get it together.

If Timmy is 30, or if the Spurs aren't contenders, I'm all for this move. Otherwise, I've gotta go with talent that's at least "semi-proven" in Splitter for now.

Blue - Interesting stat, also 6 of the 8 teams that did not have a dominant big man in the center had the GOAT instead.......


Yeah, true enough he is a project, but I'm willing to bet he would be better than anything Tim Duncan had next to him since David Robinson, especially with the chance to make a difference without the pressure of carrying a team. And like I said, every player is an unknown before they play their first game.

[Taking it to the Hole]

Everyone is assuming a trade is going to happen for TP. The most likely thing that will happen is that the Spurs will draft the best player available at #20 and hope that he can contribute. I wouldn't put it past them to do another draft and stash on an international player like they have in the past. The Spurs just don't have the money right now to be wheeling and dealing.

Most likely Splitter comes over for the full or partial MLE, they sign some other quality vets to shore up their bench and go with what they have. TP probably will be given an extension because Manu received one and he is part of their core. The Spurs organization is loyal to their stars and will do whatever they can to keep Tony. I just don't see TP going anywhere. Even if he has a great season and demands max money, he won't get it from anyone, so he knows his best option would be to just sign an extension with the Spurs.

[Agloco]

Yeah, true enough he is a project, but I'm willing to bet he would be better than anything Tim Duncan had next to him since David Robinson, especially with the chance to make a difference without the pressure of carrying a team. And like I said, every player is an unknown before they play their first game.

..........but with the pressure of learning Pops system in a short time frame so as to be an effective 25-30 minute per game cog this coming season. I just don't see that happening. Splitter will have a hard enough time adjusting to the system even with all of his experience. Even so, I'm betting that his transition will be a heck of a lot smoother than Favors' would be. Splitter can give us 25-30 effective minutes now, I don't think Favors will be ready to do that till at least next year.

Again, if Timmy is 30 or so, I'm all for pulling the trigger on this. You've gotta go with a player that's more seasoned at this point though.

I get the enthusiasm for Favors. He's got an enormous upside, but that's going to take 2-3 years to blossom fully. He's a move you make if you're focusing on the Spurs future after Duncan, not if you want to win now.

Don't forget the goal: Win another one while Timmy's around. The Spurs have only 2 seasons left to accomplish this.

[dbestpro]

God damn you people overvalue your players. Hill and Blair = 3rd pick in the draft? Parker = 3rd pick and Harris. Wow. The best is the person saying NJ would want Parker because he has star appeal.. Really? Outside of San Antonio?

Uh, Maybe TP doesn't get to Detroit much, but he is a rock star in France and connects well to the international image that the new Russian owner wants to portray.

[Agloco]

God damn you people overvalue your players. Hill and Blair = 3rd pick in the draft? Parker = 3rd pick and Harris. Wow. The best is the person saying NJ would want Parker because he has star appeal.. Really? Outside of San Antonio?

Parker for the 3rd isn't a stretch IMO. The other trade is obviously quite silly.

[iManu]

If we could get Harris with the #3 for Tony... and a morsel, I would be down. The Mavs shot themselves in the foot for the Kidd trade. Harris is really pretty good at D and has the offensive game to make opposing point guards tired. Hill and Harris at the point would work. It would be even better with Splitter. Splitter/Favors/Duncan makes my man Blair expendable. Unfortunately, for the trade. Blair is my 3rd favorite on this team, too.

Harris makes his free throws and goes to the hole. We would need some outside shooters.

http://www.nba.com/fantasy/fantasy_playernews.jsp?date=12/01/08&type=news#devin_harris :wakeup

[iManu]

Man, though. Harris is making 8 mil, I don't know how we'd pull that off.

[iManu]

:elephant

[iManu]

I always wondered how all of you had so many posts.

[TimmehC]

Man, though. Harris is making 8 mil, I don't know how we'd pull that off.

NJ is under the cap, and aren't subject to the 125% salary rules. They can take back much more salary than they send out.

[ynh]

Parker for the 3rd isn't a stretch IMO. The other trade is obviously quite silly.

Parker for the 3rd and Harris? That is the one that I'm talking about. IMO Parker for the third is a stretch too but it is relatively possible if someone wanted to over pay for him.

I'm just amazed that people think NJ would just want to throw in Harris.. Why? Cause he didn't have a great season last year NJ wants to get rid of him and he can be had for nothing.. But Parker had a terrible season last year and his value is at an all time high?

I can see a pick between 6-10 for Parker.. But Parker isn't worth a top 5 pick and I'm sure any lotto team (which generally has a ways to go before they can become a great team and would rather have the younger talent) in the top 5 wouldn't pay that for him. 6-10 I can see.. but that's because the talent is not as great and the prospects are not as clear cut as being great.

No one is going to give you the pick that could land the next great big guy for Parker. And you sure as hell aren't getting them to throw Harris in with that.

[4lifecowboy]

Parker for the 3rd and Harris? That is the one that I'm talking about. IMO Parker for the third is a stretch too but it is relatively possible if someone wanted to over pay for him.

I'm just amazed that people think NJ would just want to throw in Harris.. Why? Cause he didn't have a great season last year NJ wants to get rid of him and he can be had for nothing.. But Parker had a terrible season last year and his value is at an all time high?

I can see a pick between 6-10 for Parker.. But Parker isn't worth a top 5 pick and I'm sure any lotto team (which generally has a ways to go before they can become a great team and would rather have the younger talent) in the top 5 wouldn't pay that for him. 6-10 I can see.. but that's because the talent is not as great and the prospects are not as clear cut as being great.

No one is going to give you the pick that could land the next great big guy for Parker. And you sure as hell aren't getting them to throw Harris in with that.

i disagree with your assessment, Parker has twice the star power Harris has though he may not be twice the player. And only player in the draft not worth trading for Parker is Walls, and NJ don't have the #1 pick. Granted Harris and a #3 is a stretch, but if you throw in say Blair it evens it out.

I think you undervaluing Parker as a commodity, he will up there chances to land a big time free agent or two say a Bosh or maybe Stodemire and a second tier guy like a Johnson. Plus the international market value of the entire team goes up. It may be a move on NJ part to build a team that could compete right now. They have to give up something to get something and Harris is the only player who's salary can make the trade work, plus him and Parker play the same position. And last of all if they are going to try and make a run for two other free agents the last thing they want is the salary of #3 pick on the books. They are the only team trading Parker to make sense to me, cause it could be mutally beneficial to both teams and all the players would probably be happy as well.


"clear cut at being great" in the last five years name ten out of the twenty five lottery players that turned out to be better than Parker.

[BadMotorscooter]

I went around and round with another poster who started a thread suggesting this. There is no way New Jersey gives up the #3 and Harris for Parker alone. We would have to throw in our #20 and maybe Hill or Blair to get the deal done.

[ynh]

"clear cut at being great" in the last five years name ten out of the twenty five lottery players that turned out to be better than Parker.

Wow that is taking one phrase completely out of context. Please reread what I stated. I said "6-10 I can see.. but that's because the talent is not as great and the prospects are not as clear cut as being great."

I did not say that anything was clear cut at being great.

But anyways.. I will answer what you wish.. hell I'll name just those in the first round.

Granger, Durrant, Roy, Rondo, Westbrook, Rose, Lopez, Bogut, Deron, Chris Paul.

All ten of those I would take over Parker.. either because I think they are just as good right now and younger, they are just as good and are big guys, or they are better then him already.


And again.. Why does NJ rather want Parker and the 20th and Blair (I'll take the better trade mentioned.. Parker for Harris and the 3rd is beyond silly) instead of Harris and Favors? Seriously? They can add the free agents without trading for Parker.. and Parker is not some huge star that people on here are saying NJ would want him because.

I'll answer that for you.. They don't need the trade to be able to sign those players that were mentioned. Parker had a crap ass year last year so that right their lowers his trade value (obviously this doesn't work both ways in this forum otherwise you would see that it is stupid to think Parker is going for top value after a bad year and Harris is going for a dollar deal). Harris is younger.. The trade off between a good harris and parker is marginal.. The 20the pick in a draft is pretty much shit.. sure you get some good ones but chances are it's shit. And Blair has no ACLs.. Favors does and is a hell of alot younger with a hell of alot more potential.

Lastly.. Parker doesn't sell tickets for NJ.. The hype of a high draft pick does.

[ynh]

BTW there has been much more lottery players in the last 5 years then 25. The lotto is more then just picks 1-5... Actually I really don't get your question. Besides that it is formed from a statement I didn't make I can't tell if you are saying name 10 of the 25 players total that are better than Parker that were drafted in the lotto.. or name 10 players better than parker drafted from the 25 total Lotto players in the last 5 years.

[4lifecowboy]

BTW there has been much more lottery players in the last 5 years then 25. The lotto is more then just picks 1-5... Actually I really don't get your question. Besides that it is formed from a statement I didn't make I can't tell if you are saying name 10 of the 25 players total that are better than Parker that were drafted in the lotto.. or name 10 players better than parker drafted from the 25 total Lotto players in the last 5 years.

First off i am aware that the lottery is more than the top 5 pick of the draft, i was using the first five as a point of reference for the sake of my point (drafting is a crap shoot, just cause you are picked in the "lottery" dont mean you are going to be a good. the statistics prove the contrary) Just because Parker had a bad year (due to injury) doesn't deflate is value he is a top 5 point guard in league right now a proven scorer, all-star, champion, and a finals MVP. You can try to discount that all you want but that is is resume and there are few in the league that can match it, plus he is still in his prime.

[ynh]

Sorry. I was hoping you did.. but it's hard to understand what someone is asking when they formulate a question off of something that you didn't say. Once again I never said a top 5 player is a sure thing. I would figure anyone that would notice I'm a piston fan would realize that I don't believe such a thing (DARKO)

[ynh]

Still curious to hear how Harris and Favors (I'm guessing you would take him or Cousins) is an equal exchange to NJ for Parker and Blair. I really don't see how that makes them better. I would much rather have Harris, Favors, Lopez, FA, FA than Parker Blair, Lopez, FA, FA.. I would also put money on it that anyone else looking outside would too.

[4lifecowboy]

Still curious to hear how Harris and Favors (I'm guessing you would take him or Cousins) is an equal exchange to NJ for Parker and Blair. I really don't see how that makes them better. I would much rather have Harris, Favors, Lopez, FA, FA than Parker Blair, Lopez, FA, FA.. I would also put money on it that anyone else looking outside would too.

First off if you keep the #3 pick (which is a risk) they couldn't sign two free agents, and why would they when they would be banking that the pick is a large piece to their plans? I thought i already explain what NJ thinking would have to be to make this move. Win now. So it would be more like Harris, Favors, Lopez, free agent( and who would want to come to that unless for money) VS Parker, Lopez, FA (say Bosh), and FA (say J.Johnson) and Blair to boot. That would be the more accurate scenerio IMO. My assumption has been all along that NJ is the one that made the proposal.

[TD4THREE]

Still curious to hear how Harris and Favors (I'm guessing you would take him or Cousins) is an equal exchange to NJ for Parker and Blair. I really don't see how that makes them better. I would much rather have Harris, Favors, Lopez, FA, FA than Parker Blair, Lopez, FA, FA.. I would also put money on it that anyone else looking outside would too.It amazes me the difference a year makes. In 2009 parker was easily a top 3 point guard and was monstrous in the playoffs. One injury plagued season and now you're treating it like it's a wash between him and Harris?..:nope

[BadMotorscooter]

It amazes me the difference a year makes. In 2009 parker was easily a top 3 point guard and was monstrous in the playoffs. One injury plagued season and now you're treating it like it's a wash between him and Harris?..:nope


Obviously its not a wash between Parker and Harris but they are closer then you think. And adding the #3 pick in the draft on top of it is way overpaying for Parker. The one thing this league teaches ou is to not live in the past. So when people say he is a Finals MVP...yeah it was a few years ago. It'd be like me saying...hey Shaq is a Finals 3 time MVP. But yet I see Spurs fans saying he's not worth the MLE. lol

[DPG21920]

Wow at even comparing tp to Harris. Wow.

[Agloco]

Still curious to hear how Harris and Favors (I'm guessing you would take him or Cousins) is an equal exchange to NJ for Parker and Blair. I really don't see how that makes them better. I would much rather have Harris, Favors, Lopez, FA, FA than Parker Blair, Lopez, FA, FA.. I would also put money on it that anyone else looking outside would too.

And I'm curious to hear how Parker < Harris and Favors (because by logic, if Parker and Blair < Favors and Harris, that means Parker < Favors and Harris). Go ahead, this ought to be good.


Parker for the 3rd and Harris? That is the one that I'm talking about. IMO Parker for the third is a stretch too but it is relatively possible if someone wanted to over pay for him.

I'm just amazed that people think NJ would just want to throw in Harris.. Why? Cause he didn't have a great season last year NJ wants to get rid of him and he can be had for nothing.. But Parker had a terrible season last year and his value is at an all time high?

I can see a pick between 6-10 for Parker.. But Parker isn't worth a top 5 pick and I'm sure any lotto team (which generally has a ways to go before they can become a great team and would rather have the younger talent) in the top 5 wouldn't pay that for him. 6-10 I can see.. but that's because the talent is not as great and the prospects are not as clear cut as being great.

No one is going to give you the pick that could land the next great big guy for Parker. And you sure as hell aren't getting them to throw Harris in with that.

Red - And I'm amazed at how you come to think that Harris' body of work > than Parkers' body of work outside of last year. Your statement implies that they had relatively equal value before their respective injury plagued seasons. Laughable

Blue - Depends on how risk averse the new Nets owner is. If he's anything like other Russian owners, he'll spend like a drunken sailor to get his team to the top. Initially though, I'd think he'd opt to go with known quantities until he familiarizes himself with the draft process and prospects therein.

[ynh]

Ok first off NJ has 33.6 million to use in FA market. They can sign two top free agents whether or not they trade just give away the number 3 pick.

Last question. You know if you think about it that's pretty much a straight up stupid question. So if you turn that question around then I take it everyone in here saying they would trade Parker for Harris and the 3rd pick is trying to get less value for Parker than what you guys seem to collectively agree he can command? If you can't figure out for yourself why Harris and Favors would mean more to a team that won, what like 12 or so games last season, than just having Tony Parker than what ever I guess.

No point. You guys are right... You can get the third pick for Blair and Hill... Throw them Parker and you can get Harris and the 3rd saying you want it.. I'm sure you would have to be talked into it, though

Hey while your at it you should trade Duncan for Tyrek Evans and Sacs first pick this year along with three unprotected firsts.. That dude was Finals MVP, MVP.. all that shit.

[ynh]

Manu is foreign.. perhaps you can get NJ next year unprotected for him while your at it.. he has star power.

[ynh]

Jefferson has to be worth at least a mid lotto pick.. that guy was an allstar and two seasons removed from about 20 points a game.. he also was a main clog on a two straight finals team.

Oh actually he's an expiring contract.. you guys should hold on to that till the deadline.. you might be able to swing that for someone like Steve Nash at the trade deadline.

[Agloco]

Ok first off NJ has 33.6 million to use in FA market. They can sign two top free agents whether or not they trade just give away the number 3 pick.

Last question. You know if you think about it that's pretty much a straight up stupid question. So if you turn that question around then I take it everyone in here saying they would trade Parker for Harris and the 3rd pick is trying to get less value for Parker than what you guys seem to collectively agree he can command? If you can't figure out for yourself why Harris and Favors would mean more to a team that won, what like 12 or so games last season, than just having Tony Parker than what ever I guess.

No point. You guys are right... You can get the third pick for Blair and Hill... Throw them Parker and you can get Harris and the 3rd saying you want it.. I'm sure you would have to be talked into it, though

Hey while your at it you should trade Duncan for Tyrek Evans and Sacs first pick this year along with three unprotected firsts.. That dude was Finals MVP, MVP.. all that shit.

Red - It's a question of what team is willing to give up what. NJ seems more likely to part with said pick, hence the speculation surrounding it.

Blue - :rolleyes

[Agloco]

Manu is foreign.. perhaps you can get NJ next year unprotected for him while your at it.. he has star power.


Jefferson has to be worth at least a mid lotto pick.. that guy was an allstar and two seasons removed from about 20 points a game.. he also was a main clog on a two straight finals team.

Oh actually he's an expiring contract.. you guys should hold on to that till the deadline.. you might be able to swing that for someone like Steve Nash at the trade deadline.

You had some salient points, now you're just being dumb.

[ynh]

Why stop at the 3rd pick.. clearly Wash would rather have a finals mvp instead of a prospect like Wall.. Parker is Finals MVP.. Wall could turn out or could not... Why stop at the third pick?

[Cane]

Why stop at the 3rd pick.. clearly Wash would rather have a finals mvp instead of a prospect like Wall.. Parker is Finals MVP.. Wall could turn out or could not... Why stop at the third pick?

I give you a 3/10 for trolling.

[Agloco]

Why stop at the 3rd pick.. clearly Wash would rather have a finals mvp instead of a prospect like Wall.. Parker is Finals MVP.. Wall could turn out or could not... Why stop at the third pick?


Red - It's a question of what team is willing to give up what. NJ seems more likely to part with said pick, hence the speculation surrounding it.

Blue - :rolleyes

Go grab a beer bud (you could probably use a six pack.....), this ain't happening anyway. It's all just fun speculation. :toast

[ynh]

Blue.. minus the duncan one is all stuff that I have read in you forums.. Though I threw nash in there because I couldn't really think of anyone else.. Hell if you read the first post in the thread you would realize that I didn't just come up with that off the top of my head.

Like I said reverse your question. If Parker is not less than Harris and the third what exactly is he worth to you? That answer in its self should be much more entertaining than my answer to that question in reverse.

[ynh]

I'm not a troll.. you guys clearly haven't payed attention to what top five point guards that aren't in the Nash/Williams/ Paul grouping have got back in recent trades.. there are enough trades there for you to get an idea.. Hell there was even one trade of a finals MVP point that you can go base it on.

[ynh]

Anyways I'm done.. Do I think it's possible for you to get one of those for Parker.. yeah although I tend to think Harris would be more likely than the third.. Both of them though for Parker? Give me a break.

[Agloco]

Blue.. minus the duncan one is all stuff that I have read in you forums.. Though I threw nash in there because I couldn't really think of anyone else.. Hell if you read the first post in the thread you would realize that I didn't just come up with that off the top of my head.

Like I said reverse your question. If Parker is not less than Harris and the third what exactly is he worth to you? That answer in its self should be much more entertaining than my answer to that question in reverse.

For forward thinkers (yeah, I know, what an immensely shocking concept), the TP years are numbered. The Spurs staple has always been a superior inside presence and when the axis began to shift towards a guard dominated offense, well, you see the results. This trade would give the Spurs a raw talent which may or may not turn out to be another big they can hitch their wagon to for another 10 years.

Simply put, the Spurs can't hitch their wagon to Parker at all, much less for another 10 years.

As for Harris? Well, we do need a PG after all. He's just filler as far as Spur fans are concerned (yeah, yeah I know his real value is more, but I'm speaking from a lay-fan perspective).

Why would NJ do it? Possibly for the reasons I outlined in my posts above. Parker is a known quantity with extensive playoff experience, precisely what a raw young team needs running the show He also still has a few years left at this level.

By the way, I'd assume that NJ would want the #20 from us as well. So in my mind, this would go down: Parker/#20 for Harris/#3.

[Cane]

I'm not a troll.. you guys clearly haven't payed attention to what top five point guards that aren't in the Nash/Williams/ Paul grouping have got back in recent trades.. there are enough trades there for you to get an idea.. Hell there was even one trade of a finals MVP point that you can go base it on.

Yea, after watching Detroit throw away Billups for Allen Iverson I'm sure such a perspective would be understandable. Then again this is also the same NBA where you can get Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and Pau's fat and unknown brother.

Is there a trade featuring a top 3-5 PG in his prime thats also a Finals MVP to draw reference from? But yea I agree that its going to take Parker plus Blair to grab both Harris and the #3 pick. Having Avery Johnson probably means NJ isn't shipping Harris out then again having Avery Johnson means having a friend on the east coast for potential trades as well. Parker's contract is also an expiring which coincides with NJ's timetable of shifting to Brooklyn and possibly making another run at a premier FA in the near future.

[Agloco]

Yea, after watching Detroit throw away Billups for Allen Iverson I'm sure such a perspective would be understandable. Then again this is also the same NBA where you can get Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and Pau's fat and unknown brother.

Is there a trade featuring a top 3-5 PG in his prime thats also a Finals MVP to draw reference from? But yea I agree that its going to take Parker plus Blair to grab both Harris and the #3 pick. Having Avery Johnson probably means NJ isn't shipping Harris out then again having Avery Johnson means having a friend on the east coast for potential trades as well. Parker's contract is also an expiring which coincides with NJ's timetable of shifting to Brooklyn and possibly making another run at a premier FA in the near future.

I agree in general, but I doubt that Avery will be calling personnel shots. I'll bet the Ruski will be Cuban-esque in his day-to-day operation of that team.

[4lifecowboy]

Yea, after watching Detroit throw away Billups for Allen Iverson I'm sure such a perspective would be understandable. Then again this is also the same NBA where you can get Pau Gasol for Kwame Brown and Pau's fat and unknown brother.

Is there a trade featuring a top 3-5 PG in his prime thats also a Finals MVP to draw reference from? But yea I agree that its going to take Parker plus Blair to grab both Harris and the #3 pick. Having Avery Johnson probably means NJ isn't shipping Harris out then again having Avery Johnson means having a friend on the east coast for potential trades as well. Parker's contract is also an expiring which coincides with NJ's timetable of shifting to Brooklyn and possibly making another run at a premier FA in the near future.

I agree, but the way i read this "rumor" was NJ made the proposal and Harris was the assumed other piece to make it fit salary cap wise. Which should make it a little easier to digest for those looking at it from a talent vs talent perspective.

I was optimistic about this til they announced Johnson as the coach, he loves Harris and was upset when he was part of the Kidd trade.