Tim Duncan's Impact

[Thomas82]

I'm doing a blog entry on my list of top 10 all-time greatest NBA players regardless of position, and the reasons for having those players in my top 10. I'll do my best not to base it too much on career achievements (some of those will be used), rather on the impact that each player had on the NBA.

I have Tim Duncan at #6 on my list, and here are some of the reasons I have come up with so far for having him at that spot:

- The Spurs have the highest winning percentage in any of the 4 major pro sports during the Tim Duncan era.

- Has had 44 different teammates on 4 championship teams (Bill Russell had 50 on 11 teams).

- Won his 4 championships despite not having a top 15 player as a sidekick; with the Spurs trapped at the top of the standings, they were forced to rely on failed lottery picks from other teams, foreign rookies, journeymen, and head cases with baggage. TD won his rings despite not being on a great team (not to take anything away from those title teams).

- A major reason several other teams started copying the Spurs' Twin Towers approach.

- Makes teams change the way they are accustomed to playing to account for him.

- 36 game turnaround in rookie season (then NBA record)--- The Spurs even had the #1 defense in the league that year (41.1% defensive FG%, and giving up 88.5 PPG).

- The Spurs had only played in the conference finals TWICE in their history before Tim Duncan joined the team.

- Changed the landscape for 2 teams (Spurs & Celtics) before he was even drafted.


Feel free to agree or disagree, and come up with any reasons you have for whether or not you think he's top 10 all-time. When I'm done, I'll post an abbreviated version on here, and include a link to my full version.

[duhoh]

The Spurs had the most famous Twin Towers duo, but it did start in Houston I believe with Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon. Probably not what you're after though :D

Otherwise, pretty cool man. :tu

[FromWayDowntown]

The Spurs had played in 4 conference finals before Duncan's arrival:

*1979 (lost in 7 to Washington (Eastern Conference Finals)) -- old time Spurs fans remember this brutal defeat (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gsciAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IO4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2241%2C2137097)
*1982 (lost in 4 to LA)
*1983 (lost in 6 to LA)
*1995 (lost in 6 to Houston)



The Spurs had the most famous Twin Towers duo, but it did start in Houston I believe with Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon. Probably not what you're after though

True. Houston reached the 1986 Finals with Sampson/Olajuwon and might well have been the standard bearers of the Twin Towers idea if Sampson's body hadn't given up on him.

[Galileo]

I'm doing a blog entry on my list of top 10 all-time greatest NBA players regardless of position, and the reasons for having those players in my top 10. I'll do my best not to base it too much on career achievements (some of those will be used), rather on the impact that each player had on the NBA.

I have Tim Duncan at #6 on my list, and here are some of the reasons I have come up with so far for having him at that spot:

- The Spurs have the highest winning percentage in any of the 4 major pro sports during the Tim Duncan era.

- Has had 44 different teammates on 4 championship teams (Bill Russell had 50 on 11 teams).

- Won his 4 championships despite not having a top 15 player as a sidekick; with the Spurs trapped at the top of the standings, they were forced to rely on failed lottery picks from other teams, foreign rookies, journeymen, and head cases with baggage. TD won his rings despite not being on a great team (not to take anything away from those title teams).

- A major reason several other teams started copying the Spurs' Twin Towers approach.

- Makes teams change the way they are accustomed to playing to account for him.

- 36 game turnaround in rookie season (then NBA record)--- The Spurs even had the #1 defense in the league that year (41.1% defensive FG%, and giving up 88.5 PPG).

- The Spurs had only played in the conference finals TWICE in their history before Tim Duncan joined the team.

- Changed the landscape for 2 teams (Spurs & Celtics) before he was even drafted.


Feel free to agree or disagree, and come up with any reasons you have for whether or not you think he's top 10 all-time. When I'm done, I'll post an abbreviated version on here, and include a link to my full version.

What Tim Duncan did was more impressive than what Russell did.

* Russell played in an 8-team league, not a 30-team league. Winning the title in Russell's day was like winning your division now.

* Russell had to win only two rounds in the playoffs to win a ring. Duncan has done that 11 times already, with one loss in the first round and one year injured.

* Russell had 4 NBA top 50 teammates:

Bob Cousy (6 rings with Russell)
John Havlicek (6 rings with Russell)
Bill Sharman (4 rings with Russell)
Sam Jones (10 rings with Russell)

* Russell had 7 other Hall-of-Fame teammates:

Tom Heinsohn (8 rings with Russell)
KC Jones (8 rings with Russell + 2 NCAA championships & 1 Olympis Gold)
Frank Ramsey (7 rings with Russell)
Bailey Howell (2 rings with Russell)
Arnie Risen (1 ring with Russell)
Clyde Lovelette (2 rings with Russell)
Andy Phillip (1 ring with Russell)

* Other quality players that helped Russell:

Example:

Tom Sanders

Sanders was the 8th pick of the 1960 NBA draft (after Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, and Lenny Wilkens).

He played 13 seasons and scored double-digits 9 of them. He won 8 rings with Russell.

He was known as a great defensive player. He made all-defensive team in 1969, the first year the defensive teams were selected.

He was a very consistent player. He played about 25 to 30 minutes a game from his 2nd until his 10th season. He had 7 seasons were he did not miss a single game.

This is an example of a role player that Russell had, besides his 11 Hall-of-Fame teammates.

Others:

Jim Lotcutoff

He was the third pick of the 1955 NBA draft. He played 9 seasons in the NBA and won 6 rings with Russell. In his best season, 1957, when he and Russell won a ring, Lotcutoff averaged a double-double. He played 58 career playoff games, 55 of them with Russell, and averaged 17.2 minutes per playoff games. In 1958, he was injured and only played 5 games and none in the playoffs. That was the only year he didn't win a ring with Russell.

Don Nelson

Nelson won 3 rings with Russell, and 2 more with Cowens, Hondo and Jo Jo White in the 70s. He was a double-digit scorer in all three ring years with Russell.

Larry Siegfried

He was the 3rd pick of the 1961 NBA draft. He won 5 rings with Russell. He was a small forward and was a deadly shooter who twice led the NBA in free throw percentage. He played 79 playoff games with Russell and averaged in double-digits in the playoffs for his career.

The number of quality players as well as star players that Russell had dwarfs what Tim Duncan had.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Another interesting footnote of interest is the fact that it was a Duncan-led Spurs team that first won the title after the NBA went to the 7-7-7-7 playoff format, therefore 3 of his titles came in an era where you had to be even more durable just to make it out of round 1.

[Galileo]

- Has had 44 different teammates on 4 championship teams (Bill Russell had 50 on 11 teams).



By my count, Duncan had 32 teammates who won a ring with Tim and played at least one playoff game. Russell had 37.

Of the 37 for Russell, 11 were Hall-of-Fame players.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140479

Of Duncan's 32, one is in the Hall (DRob).

Manu will get in because of international play.

Parker is borderline, but still had good years ahead of him. I think he will get in as he won 3 rings and made the all-star team a few times. he needs another riong or a couple more all-star games to be sure, or something sensational in international ball.

Horry might get in some day as a novelty. Then again, he might not.

Bowen deserves to be in, in my opinion, but won't get in probably. If Michael Cooper isn't in, then Bowen won't either.

Finley could win his 2nd ring this year, but is very unlikely to get in.

[TMTTRIO]

By my count, Duncan had 32 teammates who won a ring with Tim and played at least one playoff game. Russell had 37.

Of the 37 for Russell, 11 were Hall-of-Fame players.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140479

Of Duncan's 32, one is in the Hall (DRpb).

Manu will get in because of international play.

Parker is borderline, but still had good years ahead of him. I think he will get in as he won 3 rings and made the all-star team a few times. he needs another riong or a couple more all-star games to be sure, or something sensational in international ball.

Horry might get in some day as a novelty. Then again, he might not.

Bowen deserves to be in, in my opinion, but won't get in probably. If Michael Cooper isn't in, then Bowen won't either.

Finley could win his 2nd ring this year, but is very unlikely to get in.

Well to be fair if we're talking about who played with more HOFs in the NBA, Manu should be left out in this case. Yes he'll probably make it into the HOF but mostly based on his overall international career and achievements. He hasn't really done anything special in the NBA to be put in the HOF other than win a few championships with Duncan. Oh and he's only had one All Star appearance and a 6MOY award which is not saying much.

[Galileo]

Russell had 5 teammates who made the all-NBA team multiple times or more:

Cousy, Hondo, Bill Sharman, Tom Heinsohn, Sam Jones.

Tim Duncan has only one teammate make the 1st or 2nd all-NBA team:

DRob made the 2nd team in 1998.

Here's what Russell had:

Hondo 1969 (2nd)

Hondo 1968 (2nd)

Sam Jones 1967 (2nd)

Hondo 1966 (2nd)

Sam Jones 1966 (2nd)

Sam Jones 1965 (2nd)

Tom Heinsohn 1964 (2nd)

Sam Jones 1964 (2nd)

Cousy 1963 (2nd)

Tom Heinsohn (2nd)

Cousy 1962 (2nd)

Tom Heinsohn (2nd)

Cousy 1961 (1st)

Tom Heinsohn 1961 (2nd)

Cousy 1960 (1st)

Bill Sharman 1960 (2nd)

Cousy 1959 (1st)

Bill Sharman 1959 (1st)

Cousy 1958 (1st)

Bill Sharman 1958 (1st)

Cousy 1957 (1st)

Bill Sharman (1st)

[Thomas82]

The Spurs had the most famous Twin Towers duo, but it did start in Houston I believe with Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajuwon. Probably not what you're after though :D

Otherwise, pretty cool man. :tu

Actually, Wilt Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond, and Patrick Ewing and Bill Cartwright are another pair that tried it.

[Thomas82]

The Spurs had played in 4 conference finals before Duncan's arrival:

*1979 (lost in 7 to Washington (Eastern Conference Finals)) -- old time Spurs fans remember this brutal defeat (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gsciAAAAIBAJ&sjid=IO4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2241%2C2137097)
*1982 (lost in 4 to LA)
*1983 (lost in 6 to LA)
*1995 (lost in 6 to Houston)




True. Houston reached the 1986 Finals with Sampson/Olajuwon and might well have been the standard bearers of the Twin Towers idea if Sampson's body hadn't given up on him.


Thanks for the correction.

[Thomas82]

By my count, Duncan had 32 teammates who won a ring with Tim and played at least one playoff game. Russell had 37.Of the 37 for Russell, 11 were Hall-of-Fame players.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140479

Of Duncan's 32, one is in the Hall (DRob).

Manu will get in because of international play.

Parker is borderline, but still had good years ahead of him. I think he will get in as he won 3 rings and made the all-star team a few times. he needs another riong or a couple more all-star games to be sure, or something sensational in international ball.

Horry might get in some day as a novelty. Then again, he might not.

Bowen deserves to be in, in my opinion, but won't get in probably. If Michael Cooper isn't in, then Bowen won't either.

Finley could win his 2nd ring this year, but is very unlikely to get in.


I was counting the whole roster from all 4 of those teams, that number added up to 44, same with Bill Russell and his teams.