Debate: "The Memorial Day Miracle" vs. "The Detroit Dagger"

[Spursfan092120]

Someone brought up a great point during the "Memorial Day Miracle" vs "TD 3" debate...What about the Robert Horry 3? When I saw the thread, I thought "No brainer, Memorial Day Miracle outshines TD's 3 any day of the week." But this battle is a little tougher. IMO, Robert's was a bigger deal because it was on a bigger stage...I'll let you guys decide, though...Maybe this can spark up a small tournament between the best shots in Spurs history...I can throw in Avery's gamewinner in the '99 finals as well.

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VS.

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[ajballer4]

Detroit Dagger, like you said bigger stage

[Leetonidas]

The first is always the sweetest, but Horry's was in the Finals and probably tipped the series in our favor overall. It's a tough choice, but I will go with Horry.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Horry. That shot made it one of the most entertaining Finals series I've ever seen.

[DesignatedT]

Horry baby.

[greyforest]

sean's shot was more difficult.
horry's shot affected the series more.

watching sheed chase the ball is so fun

[Pistons < Spurs]

:depressed:depressed:depressed

[Dex]

Once again, if Sheed only knew how to properly run a shooter off the three-point line, Spurs history might be significantly altered.

After much deliberation, I gotta go with Horry's three. The MDM was amazing...but still early in the series, and early in the playoffs. Nothing dictates the Spurs don't go on to still win that title, just less dominant. Considering they only lost 2 games during that run, they had room to drop one or two.

Horry's shot (and overall play at the end of Game 5) felt like it was literally make or break for the Finals. The Pistons showed they could come back to San Antonio and win in Game 6. I honestly don't think the Spurs get that third title without that one shot.

[HarlemHeat37]

Both shots have an incredible story..like others have said about Elliott's shot, it was the beginning of the run and signified something special was happening..it was also the Spurs first lead of the entire game..

With Horry's shot, it capped off arguably the best role player performance in NBA history, and maybe the most clutch performance of all-time IMO..

[Dex]

Results of this are surprising. I figured MDM would be far-and-away ahead on nostalgia factor alone...

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I voted for MDM, but from a context standpoint alone (title-less Spurs' first "back the fuck off moment" in the words of another poster). Also, from a reputation standpoint, the MDM was bigger. Sure, Sean was hot, but how many other game winners can you remember him hitting? Especially in the playoffs? His game winner came out of nowhere on a shot with a degree of difficulty so high it was laughable.

Horry, on the other hand, already had a reputation for being clutch. SA knew it long before he ever donned Silver and Black. His list of playoff heroics was as long as your arm, so even though he was a sparingly used role player, you KNEW he could go off at some point.

Also, while his game winner was nothing short of ice cold, it was a relatively mundane attempt (especially when juxtaposed with Sean's dagger). IMO, Horry's slam dunk in that game was far more impressive, but of course that's not what we're debating here.

Robert did what he was supposed to do--make Rasheed Wallace pay for foolishly collapsing on Ginobili in the corner.

Sean called for the ball beforehand (the play was originally drawn up for Robinson or Duncan to get a good look at a game-tying shot), then delivered an incredible shot that completely altered the way people looked at the Spurs from the standpoint of their ability to close out tough games on a big stage.

It's close...........but I still gotta go with the MDM.

[Sisk]

Results of this are surprising. I figured MDM would be far-and-away ahead on nostalgia factor alone...

:toast

[Agloco]

The first is always the sweetest, but Horry's was in the Finals and probably tipped the series in our favor overall. It's a tough choice, but I will go with Horry.

There's no probably about it. The Pistons win it in 6 without that shot. It's hands down the bigger of the two (as much as I hate to say it.....).



After much deliberation, I gotta go with Horry's three. The MDM was amazing...but still early in the series, and early in the playoffs. Nothing dictates the Spurs don't go on to still win that title, just less dominant. Considering they only lost 2 games during that run, they had room to drop one or two.


I think the only difference would have been that the Spurs win that in 5 versus a sweep. 15-3 in the playoffs vs 15-2.

[L.I.T]

Put into its historical context, including what we now know about his health, his lackluster history as a clutch player and the fact that it kickstarted a dynasty, I would have to say the Memorial Day Miracle edges out the Horry 3 (slightly though).

Of any of the championship teams, the 1999 team had a swaggering aura about them. We forget, I think since it was 11 years ago, but that arguably is the Spurs team that most imposed their will on opponents. They could grind them into dust. The later Spurs teams were marked by an incredible ability to maintain defensive intensity but had a chameleon like ability to matchup.

I say this because, for the 1999 team that 3, despite its being in the WCF, has become its trademark. Even as an individual effort, I remember (in the moment) the MDM being more difficult. It resonates precisely because it was the moment when the Spurs went from being a team that was always close, but came up short in the heat of the playoffs, to being a dominant playoff performer.

[Louae]

It's a tough choice, but I have to go with MDM. And it's a miracle for so many reasons. Let's not forget what Spurs teams were like back then. They weren't the team that we view now. In many ways, the Spurs teams of the 90s were like the Mavs or the Suns of today. Good teams that would ultimately be a stepping stone to someone else's championship run. Year in and year out, we'd see players from other teams make big plays and see our players miss the big plays. Examples can include plays such as Barkely's last second dagger or Strickland's no look pass....

And losing game 2 to Portland would've been very tough for the Spurs. As much as many feel the Spurs would've bounced back from that loss, that wasn't the feeling of many spurs fans about a Spurs team back in that time. Making that shot was huge. After that shot, it really became real.

While Horry's shot was on the bigger stage and turned the tide of the series which ultimately lead to a championship, I have to say that the MDM changed the culture of a franchise from pretender to contender. And because of that, I say the MDM was a bigger shot.

[Bukefal]

I'll go with the Memorial day miracle. It was an amazing and tough shot. Horry's was indeed on a bigger stage but as leetonidas said, first is always the sweetest and for me that shot was really sweet. The beginning of many great things

[Booharv]

Horry. That shot made it one of the most entertaining Finals series I've ever seen.

That series was ok. That was the only great game of the entire series. Games 1 & 2 were blowout Spurs wins. Games 6 & 7 were good but not great games and games 3 & 4 were massive, massive Detroit blowouts. Every game but that one was decided by 9 or more points.

[Chomag]

I would have to go with MDM. Not to take anything away from Horry's amazing performance but Seans shot was what set the stage for greatness the fallowing years of the franchise. That 1 shot is what finally made the big statement that the Spurs are the real deal and were championship contenders.

[Kamnik]

Once again, if Sheed only knew how to properly run a shooter off the three-point line, Spurs history might be significantly altered.

After much deliberation, I gotta go with Horry's three. The MDM was amazing...but still early in the series, and early in the playoffs. Nothing dictates the Spurs don't go on to still win that title, just less dominant. Considering they only lost 2 games during that run, they had room to drop one or two.

Horry's shot (and overall play at the end of Game 5) felt like it was literally make or break for the Finals. The Pistons showed they could come back to San Antonio and win in Game 6. I honestly don't think the Spurs get that third title without that one shot.

Agreed.

If Horry would miss that shot Spurs wouldn't win the title.

[J.T.]

Horry shot is officially called the Father's Day Finisher you stupid faggot.

[J.T.]

Props to this thread for also pointing out that post 2003 Spurs fan still doesn't give a fuck about 1999 and what it meant to the franchise.

[Spurs Brazil]

I voted for Horry. If we lost another game against the Pistons we'd be done. Everyone would remember TD missed that easy tip at the end of regulation and I think Pistons would finish us in game 6.

99 team was damn good. They would win that series in 5 or 6 even with a loss in game 2

[baseline bum]

The Spurs were Big Shot Rob's three from getting backdoor-swept by the Pistons. This choice should be obvious.

[ShoogarBear]

The Spurs were Big Shot Rob's three from getting backdoor-swept by the Pistons. This choice should be obvious.

Yes, it should.

Without the MDM, Horry never even thinks about joining the Spurs, and Tim Duncan finishes his career with the Magic.

[baseline bum]

Yes, it should.

Without the MDM, Horry never even thinks about joining the Spurs, and Tim Duncan finishes his career with the Magic.

I still don't buy your assertion that a mentally weak Portland team would ride surviving game 2 to a series win. They may have felt like they gave game 1 away, but lots of teams have made that excuse against the Spurs for years. The Spurs would have gone on the road and mopped the floor with them the same way they did LA.

[ShoogarBear]

I still don't buy your assertion that a mentally weak Portland team would ride surviving game 2 to a series win.

Mentally weak? You mean like the Spurs were . . . before the MDM?


They may have felt like they gave game 1 away, but lots of teams have made that excuse against the Spurs for years.

Yeah, lots of teams . . . after the MDM.


The Spurs would have gone on the road and mopped the floor with them the same way they did LA.

Because it was clear after those first two blowout wins how superior the Spurs were?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

It's really unfair to even compare these shots because they're definitely two watershed moments in Spurs' history. Yes, the 99 team was stacked, but as ShoogarBear pointed out, the knock on the Spurs before that first title was that they were weak and soft and would eventually fold ingloriously under pressure. What's to say that Portland, mental issues and all, doesn't feed off the second-guessing the media was sure to engage in had SA lost game 2? Remember, that Portland team had just come off eliminating the defending conference champion Jazz in the semis--they had absolutely no reason to be intimidated by San Antonio.

The '05 Finals was a watershed moment of a different sort. Sure, the Spurs were good, but let's face it--they hadn't faced anyone of the Pistons' caliber in the Finals before, and without that game 5 win, I have a hard time believing they'd be mentally capable of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps in game 6 (remember this was essentially the same squad that laid an egg in the elimination game after the .4 shot the year before).

[baseline bum]

Mentally weak? You mean like the Spurs were . . . before the MDM?


You thought the Spurs were mentally weak at any time after that win in Houston in 1999? With the way they were consistently grinding out wins against Utah and Portland in the season, with the way they chased down Utah for the division even though they were the oldest team in the league and playing back-to-back-to-back games, with the way they outplayed LA in fourth quarters, with the way they kept composed when Minnesota was starting fights with them in game 4?



Yeah, lots of teams . . . after the MDM.


All LA could talk about was throwing away games; especially game 2.



Because it was clear after those first two blowout wins how superior the Spurs were?

Crystal clear. I thought Portland's only chance in that series was for JR Rider to play like he did vs Utah.

[Bob Lanier]

Horry's shot came with what, six seconds left in the game? It wasn't a buzzer-beater, and wouldn't even have won the game if Bruce Bowen and Tony Parker hadn't played fantastic defense on the ensuing possession.

That said, the MDM had little influence on the Spurs' winning the title; they were the best team in the league that year by a fair margin. So in fairness I'd go with Horry's shot (and play in general during the second half of that game).

[Spurologist]

:depressed:depressed:depressed

Felt the same way when Fish was asked about 0.4.

[stéphane]

I was able to watch every game of that Detroit Finals live so every time I think about Horry performance in that game, it gives me chills. Jordanesque.
I wasn't too young and already followed the spurs when the MDM happened but I couldn't see it live in France.

[Spursfan092120]

I've been a Spurs fan since we drafted David Robinson..I was 7 years old. Meant even more to me when he started playing in '89. I know how much the MDM meant to this franchise, but we're talking about what was a bigger shot. That '99 team was a team of destiny. Whether or not they win that game, they win that series the next one. Nobody was even close to matching up to them that year. The 2005 series was a different animal. Horry doesn't hit that shot, we lose that series the next game. That's what put it over the top for me.

[FkLA]

MDM is and always will be the greatest shot in Spurs history. Think about how many great teams have come and gone just recently (90s Jazz, 00s Kings, 00s Mavs, etc) that never won a title...getting that first one is always the toughest and most special.

[xellos88330]

MDM for me. I tend to look at the difficulty of the shot more than the meaning. MDM is just completely amazing. Horry's shot (not trying to devalue the shot) was just another wide open 3 pointer.

MDM helped the Spurs get the pressure monkey off of their back and prove that they can compete when the odds are stacked against them.

DD stated that the Spurs will not back down and not give up even if they just finished getting whooped the last two games.

[ChuckD]

MDM is and always will be the greatest shot in Spurs history. Think about how many great teams have come and gone just recently (90s Jazz, 00s Kings, 00s Mavs, etc) that never won a title...getting that first one is always the toughest and most special.