No Bynum No LOB trophy

[tlongII]

This is becoming painfully obvious. Bynum makes the Lakers much more formidable on offense and defense. If I were LA I would consider sitting him in game 5 and hope he can go for extended minutes in games 6 and 7.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

21_blessings has been saying this forever, and everyone scoffed him for it. LA would be moronic to trade this guy for Bosh. They'd be smarter to get him on a healthy diet and off fast food so his bones and ligaments aren't so fragile.

[JamStone]

I agree mostly because of depth and foul trouble issues. Bynum has played ok, sometimes pretty good. But it's not necessarily that he's so great, it's the fact that after Bynum/Gasol/Odom, the Lakers have Luke Walton, Josh Powell, and DJ Mbenga. If they had one more quality big man, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But because they don't, that's what makes Andrew Bynum so critical for the Lakers.

Depends how his knee holds up. He played really limited minutes last night and they get an extra day of rest because of the NBA/ESPN/ABC idiot schedule to have two days in between games. That might enough for him to be able to go Sunday.

[JamStone]

21_blessings has been saying this forever, and everyone scoffed him for it. LA would be moronic to trade this guy for Bosh. They'd be smarter to get him on a healthy diet and off fast food so his bones and ligaments aren't so fragile.

If I were the Lakers, I'd still do that easily. Bosh is a known commodity (might think he's better than he actually is but still a very good player), and Bynum is a playboy bunny away from a season ending injury every year.

Bynum's value, especially in these Finals as I just mentioned, is a product of the Lakers lack of quality depth in the front court.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If I were the Lakers, I'd still do that easily. Bosh is a known commodity (might think he's better than he actually is but still a very good player), and Bynum is a playboy bunny away from a season ending injury every year.

Bynum's value, especially in these Finals as I just mentioned, is a product of the Lakers lack of quality depth in the front court.


If they trade Bynum for Bosh, IMO their interior D suffers whether or not they add depth, it seems like when he's healthy Bynum gives them length and lane clogging that no one else can. Bosh I just don't see as someone who improves them much, there's only one ball to go around and it's in Kobe and Gasol's hands as is. This is also just from the Raptors games I've watched but Bosh's defense is an abortion, like Amare Stoudemire bad.

Regardless, I agree they'd be smart to add a veteran big (I'm kinda biased since he's one of my favorite players but Kurt Thomas would be perfect) so they aren't so dependent on Odom and Bynum to be consistent.

[JamStone]

"when he's healthy" is the most poignant thing you wrote in that post.

I'd agree with a lot of what you say. I don't necessarily think Bosh would mesh well with Gasol because they'd need to share more touches than Bynum usually does. But you still do that deal because every year Bynum gets busted and it affects them in the playoffs. Bosh gives you scoring and rebounding and a guy that can actually play 30+ mpg without breaking his kneecap.

To me, it's not as much a matter of who fits on the Lakers better as opposed to looking at Bynum's fragility and how it impacts the Lakers against a team like the Celtics who have a lot more quality depth in the front court.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He's def. better than Bynum is this department, but Bosh is an injury concern himself. While Bynum's injuries are somewhat fluky Bosh seems like he's prone to pussified injuries.

[21_Blessings]

Can we stop acting like the Bosh/Bynum trade is a sure thing? Bosh could just as easily sign in Miami with STD-Wade.

[TheMACHINE]

Bynum has been a beast. But i'd still trade him for Bosh, just cuz Bynum has been injured 3 years in a row now, and it aint gonna get better.

[Findog]

He's def. better than Bynum is this department, but Bosh is an injury concern himself. While Bynum's injuries are somewhat fluky Bosh seems like he's prone to pussified injuries.

Bosh: 509 out of a possible 574 regular-season games played, he averages 72 games played a year. I wouldn't say he's injury-prone. Anything over 70 games played is a full season in my book.

Bynum: 278 out of a possible 410 regular-season games played, he averages 56 games played a year. Bynum is a better fit for the Lakers over Bosh because of his skillset, but he's also made out of glass.

Bynum played all 82 his sophomore campaign. Other than that, his career high in regular-season games played is 65.

[Giuseppe]

No Bynum No LOB trophy

Horseshit.

[21_Blessings]

Bosh: 509 out of a possible 574 regular-season games played, he averages 72 games played a year. I wouldn't say he's injury-prone. Anything over 70 games played is a full season in my book.

Bynum: 278 out of a possible 410 regular-season games played, he averages 56 games played a year. Bynum is a better fit for the Lakers over Bosh because of his skillset, but he's also made out of glass.

Bynum played all 82 his sophomore campaign. Other than that, his career high in regular-season games played is 65.

Bosh is also 3 years older. And he would have been just as injured had he came down on Odom's foot or Kobe bowling into his knee.

[Ghazi]

Boston wasn't losing in '08 even if Bynum was playing.

And of course if Bynum was playing then Gasol wouldn't be a Laker :). Bynum's injury proneness is a blessing in disguise.

[21_Blessings]

Wrong again per usual Ghazi.

[Ghazi]

I'm sure Bynum would've made a 40 point difference. 131-92 :wow :wow

[resistanze]

Bosh is also 3 years older. And he would have been just as injured had he came down on Odom's foot or Kobe bowling into his knee.

True. But the fact remains is that it was Bynum who got hurt and is still suffering the consequences. I think the big question mark is if he's able to rehabilitate completely over the summer and if the Lakers are willing to wait to find out.

[Giuseppe]

I'm sure Bynum would've made a 40 point difference. 131-92 :wow :wow

I made a promise to one of your Mav's buddies about not doing your O'fer. You're taxing my promise, asshole.

[JamStone]

I'm sure Bynum would've made a 40 point difference. 131-92 :wow :wow

Poor evidence.

Bynum could have made a difference in games 1, 2, and/or 4 where the games were much closer. And making a difference and any of those games could have made a difference in the series.

[21_Blessings]

I think the big question mark is if he's able to rehabilitate completely over the summer.

No that isn't a question mark at all. Repairing a torn meniscus is mild as far as arthroscopic procedures goes. Bynum has a proven track record of diligent off-season training/rehabbing.

[resistanze]

No that isn't a question mark at all. Repairing a torn meniscus is mild as far as arthroscopic procedures goes. Bynum has a proven track record of diligent off-season training/rehabbing.

And I know that when an individual suffers knee trauma, the chance for re-injury is significantly increased because of stability issues, even after rehabilitation. And I'm not even talking about basketball players who bang for 48 minutes a night. Why else do you think the Lakers would even consider entertaining offers for Bynum?

[Agloco]

You're taxing my.........asshole.

:wow

[21_Blessings]

And I know that when an individual suffers knee trauma, the chance for re-injury is significantly increased because of stability issues, even after rehabilitation. And I'm not even talking about basketball players who bang for 48 minutes a night.

We're talking about a relatively invasive procedure on a 22 year old. Not a knee replacement on a 40 year old.


Why else do you think the Lakers would even consider entertaining offers for Bynum?

Define "offers".

You're confusing media/internet hype with reality.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I seriously don't understand the Bosh fetish everyone has. Absolutely no back to the basket game, loves to settle for jumpers, bad defender, and his play in the playoffs for the most part has been an abortion (43.3% shooting). Outside of the stats he puts up (that aren't extremely impressive or anything) this guy has done nothing to earn the elite status he has.

[Giuseppe]

I seriously don't understand the Bosh fetish everyone has. Absolutely no back to the basket game, loves to settle for jumpers, bad defender, and his play in the playoffs for the most part has been an abortion (43.3% shooting). Outside of the stats he puts up (that aren't extremely impressive or anything) this guy has done nothing to earn the elite status he has.

Thank you, Duncan. The hard on for Bosh is unexplainable.

[Findog]

I seriously don't understand the Bosh fetish everyone has. Absolutely no back to the basket game, loves to settle for jumpers, bad defender, and his play in the playoffs for the most part has been an abortion (43.3% shooting). Outside of the stats he puts up (that aren't extremely impressive or anything) this guy has done nothing to earn the elite status he has.

Would you rather have 72 games of Bosh or 56 games of Bynum? The Lakers could slide Gasol to C (who has worked his tail off into becoming a good defender) and install Bosh at PF, and in my opinion, they wouldn't miss a beat. How do you guard a team that has Gasol, Bosh and Kobe on the floor at the same time? You don't.

Yeah, Bosh is soft, but he wouldn't be asked to carry the Lakers all by himself. If Bosh is your third-best player, you're a fucking powerhouse. Gasol was considered pretty damn soft himself when he was in Memphis. If I'm Mitch Kupchak, I wouldn't consider a Bynum/Bosh swap if Bynum could stay healthy. But that's not the reality we're facing.

[Giuseppe]

Would you rather have 72 games of Bosh or 56 games of Bynum?

The latter.

I want nothing, absolutely zilch to do with Chris Bosh.

No.

[TheManFromAcme]

If you don't realize the guy is damaged goods by now then you are hopeless. And to pass up on a top 3 power forward in the league for a stiff like Bynum is flat out stupid. I want to say you all make these silly comments because you don't want LA to add a star like Bosh, but I'm starting to believe the shit you all are spewing.

So you have absolutely no hope for Drew Luva? None at all?
I still think one more year is when the Lakers will know for sure if he's damaged goods or not. He's 22 not even at his prime a young-un of sorts.

[Findog]

The latter.

I want nothing, absolutely zilch to do with Chris Bosh.

No.

Bynum is a better fit for the Lakers because he's a much better defender than Bosh, but a core of Kobe, Gasol and Bosh? :wow :wow

[resistanze]

I seriously don't understand the Bosh fetish everyone has. Absolutely no back to the basket game, loves to settle for jumpers, bad defender, and his play in the playoffs for the most part has been an abortion (43.3% shooting). Outside of the stats he puts up (that aren't extremely impressive or anything) this guy has done nothing to earn the elite status he has.

To be fair to Bosh, he played pretty well against ORL (24/9). The previous year against NJ, he was double- and triple- teamed on most possessions the entire series because there was no one else that could hurt them.

But no, he's not elite. He could be a pretty good #2 guy on a championship-caliber team, though. But if he's a bad defender it's not because he makes bone-headed rotations, gambles on defense or is generally disinterested. It's because he gets bullied down low by more physical players (even a 45 year old fat shit) and he has Bargnani with him.

[hitmanyr2k]

The simple fact that the Lakers won a title without Bynum speaks volumes. Lakers fans are notorious for overrating players that can tie their shoes and chew gum at the same time. This is how Luke Walton got a 6 year fucking deal. I wouldn't hire the guy to clean my fucking toilets, he'd get hurt. Sasha became The Manu Stopper. Farmar was suppose to better than Rose and Parker. Kwame was suppose to grow an extra set of hands. These are all arguments that ultimately forced me away from TLN.com. It's one thing to be bias, but it's another to be stupid. Bynum is a dud. The situation has to be perfect for him to thrive. He has no hustle, he plays with no heart, the guy is Hollywood, and his role model is Odom. How is this suppose to turn out good? Do any of you know the reason why Bynum didn't play much in High School?

It doesn't speak volumes at all. The Orlando Magic was a creampuff, inexperienced 3 point shooting team with a fake "superstar" center, and on top of that was missing one of their best players and PG in Jameer Nelson. That series wasn't even close to physical. The Lakers beating that team without Bynum wasn't really a shock. The Magic were the East version of the Phoenix Suns when it comes to style of play.

[Giuseppe]

Bynum is a better fit for the Lakers because he's a much better defender than Bosh, but a core of Kobe, Gasol and Bosh? :wow :wow

It's not a one OR the other proposition for me.

Bosh is a loser.

Bynum is a winner.

[Findog]

It's not a one OR the other proposition for me.

Bosh is a loser.

Bynum is a winner.

Bynum plays for a franchise that has Jerry Buss for an owner, Phil Jackson as its head coach, and Kobe as its best player. Bynum is no more of a winner than Chris Bosh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Would you rather have 72 games of Bosh or 56 games of Bynum?
72 games of Bosh, I just think Bynum's injuries are more bad luck than being fragile. This year, he played 65 games and Bosh played 70.


The Lakers could slide Gasol to C (who has worked his tail off into becoming a good defender) and install Bosh at PF, and in my opinion, they wouldn't miss a beat. How do you guard a team that has Gasol, Bosh and Kobe on the floor at the same time ?
Yes Gasol has worked his tail off to defend pick and rolls really well, but Bynum still plays a huge role in their system as the guy who rotates over to jam the paint up, similar to Boston's system with KG and Perkins. IMO, if you move Gasol to center and make it so he has to defend the low post and play a more physical role it hurts him defensively. He's excelled at the defensive role he has, why fuck that up?


Yeah, Bosh is soft, but he wouldn't be asked to carry the Lakers all by himself. If Bosh is your third-best player, you're a fucking powerhouse.
This is speculation but Bosh seems like someone who would have no way of being productive as the 3rd option. I don't see him stepping up his defense because his role is lessened on offense (he seems a lot like Amare where his defense would actually get worse because the lack of touches would lead to a loss of focus).


Gasol was considered pretty damn soft himself when he was in Memphis. If I'm Mitch Kupchak, I wouldn't consider a Bynum/Bosh swap if Bynum could stay healthy. But that's not the reality we're facing.
So in essence we agree on most stuff except I think Bynum will start playing more than 56 games a year. If Bynum will be limited by injuries his entire career, I trade him for Bosh in a heartbeat if I'm LA, just my opinion he'll start staying healthy.

[Giuseppe]

Originally Posted by lakaluva http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/nba/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4411535#post4411535)
The simple fact that the Lakers won a title without Bynum speaks volumes.

Nobody wants to credit Bynum for his defense on Howard and his contribution to the '09 Championship because Media didn't lead the way, Jackson didn't herald the moment, we weren't led by the nose to it.

Please. I ain't anybody's fart catcher.

& I know the difference twixt Nutella and a pile of shit.

[Giuseppe]

Bynum plays for a franchise that has Jerry Buss for an owner, Phil Jackson as its head coach, and Kobe as its best player. Bynum is no more of a winner than Chris Bosh.

Cept Bynum actually did it.

Bosh and his minions talk about it.

[TheManFromAcme]

It's not a one OR the other proposition for me.

Bosh is a loser.

Bynum is a winner.

Agreed.

How dumb will the Lakers look if he is shipped out, somehow gets on a strict physical regiment to strengthen his knees (unlike any other he's seen with the Laker trainers) and blossoms into a beast under some other teams watch?

Funny things can happen.

I like Bosh. I just don't think he's a fit. If anything Drew is a winner by default because even though he hasn't really participated fully in any finals, he's been there and understands the pressure albeit through his teammates.

[Findog]

Cept Bynum actually did it.

Bosh and his minions talk about it.

Last I checked, the Lakers won it all last year while getting minimal contributions from Bynum in the playoffs. Unless you want to argue that Bynum would turn the Raptors into some sort of powerhouse...which he wouldn't.

[Giuseppe]

You know what I remember most about his finals contribution? During his 18 minutes per game, and his horrible stat line, is that he miraculously never played during most of the 4th quarters. I will say he used his fouls well in that series, damn there all of them.

That's why they play 48 minutes a game, Luva.

[21_Blessings]

And you quit on Bynum during the playoffs, then miraculous reappeared when he had one good game in the finals.

Now you're just lying. How sad :lmao

[Giuseppe]

Last I checked, the Lakers won it all last year while getting minimal contributions from Bynum in the playoffs.

You're like most of these children here, Fin, if it ain't got 20/10 in the box score you immediately tune it out.:bang

[Findog]

You're like most of these children here, Fin, if it ain't got 20/10 in the box score you immediately tune it out.:bang

You must've missed where I said Bynum is a better fit on paper for the Lakers because he's a much better defender than Bosh, and where I said I wouldn't consider a Bynum/Bosh swap from the Lakers perspective if Bynum could stay healthy.

[21_Blessings]

You must have forgotten that Bosh was a joke in Toronto. Especially when Bynum was guarding him :lol

[Giuseppe]

You must've missed where I said Bynum is a better fit on paper for the Lakers because he's a much better defender than Bosh, and where I said I wouldn't consider a Bynum/Bosh swap from the Lakers perspective if Bynum could stay healthy.

Well, then quit talking out both sides of your mouth.

[21_Blessings]

They were calling for on this board.

Go ahead and show me where I quit on Bynum during the playoffs. Oh that's right you can't. :lmao

As I said before the post season even began was that Bynum will be needed in the finals. It's not his fault the West is full of a bunch of heartless, no defense playing, undersized pussies.

[Ghazi]

Nutella's pretty damn good, IMHFO. but unhealthy (like Bynum :D) LOLOLOLOLOLOOL

[Findog]

Well, then quit talking out both sides of your mouth.

Who says I'm doing that? It's not shitting on Bynum to say that a Kobe/Gasol/Bosh trio would be a powerhouse team that other clubs wouldn't be able to deal with. The Lakers have options most teams don't, and they'd be absolutely stupid to hang up on the Raptors and not at least consider a Bynum/Bosh trade.

[Giuseppe]

Who says I'm doing that? It's not shitting on Bynum to say that a Kobe/Gasol/Bosh trio would be a powerhouse team that other clubs wouldn't be able to deal with. The Lakers have options most teams don't, and they'd be absolutely stupid to hang up on the Raptors and not at least consider a Bynum/Bosh trade.

Apology accepted.

[21_Blessings]

:lmao

When Bynum was getting beasted on by Lopez, you were nowhere to be found.

When Bynum was shitting on the Suns in game 6 you were nowhere to be found :lmao

[bostonguy]

CP3/Okafor for Bynum and fillers this summer. :depressed

[Giuseppe]

When Bynum was shitting on the Suns in game 6 you were nowhere to be found :lmao

Testify 21, testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[duncan228]

Andrew Bynum's Bad Knee Could Cost Lakers the Finals (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/06/11/andrew-bynums-bad-knee-could-cost-lakers-the-finals/)
By Tim Povtak

Center Andrew Bynum never really knew how valuable he was to the Los Angeles Lakers until he sat on the sideline Thursday and watched them play the Boston Celtics.

Now he knows. And so does everyone else.

The Lakers can't win the NBA Finals without him coming back.

Bynum missed all but 12 minutes with a troublesome right knee that is growing progressively worse, leaving a void Thursday that was big enough for the Celtics to rumble through, allowing them to dominate around the basket in 96-89 victory.

It's the basket Bynum usually protects. And without their man in the middle, the Lakers suddenly look vulnerable again, raising concerns for the rest of the series that is now tied at two wins apiece.

"Offensively, I don't think it's a big problem without me, but defensively we're hurting, especially with all the size they have,'' Bynum said. "Without me in there, they were just attacking the basket. I've got to get right, real quick.''

Since the playoffs began, Bynum has been playing with a meniscus tear in his right knee -- he will have surgery after the season -- learning to manage the pain and control the swelling with constant treatment.

He has started and played in all 20 playoff games, but his effectiveness dropped when the swelling unexpectedly increased on Thursday, leaving him questionable now for the rest of the series.

He had no lift in his legs and no strength in the muscles around the knee, making him more of a hindrance than a help in his short time on the court.

"It kind of sucks right now because I can't do much,'' he said. "But hopefully, it will improve again. I'll have a better idea tomorrow.''

Bynum said he expects to have his knee re-examined Friday in Boston by a specialist from New York City. Game 5 is set for Sunday, giving him two days of treatment.

He said early in the playoffs that he was given assurances that playing on the bad knee would not damage it further, but he also said he would be asking that question to the medical staff again Friday.

"I expect to be back for Sunday,'' he said. "I need to be out there. It's not so much the pain, but it's how effective I can be.''

Without Bynum, who has grown into one of the better centers in the Western Conference, the Lakers were out-rebounded, 41-34. The Celtics got 16 offensive rebounds and 20 second-chance points. If Bynum could have played, Celtics reserve forward "Big Baby" Glen Davis never would have scored 18 points around the basket.

"When Big Bynum is not out there, it really hurts us,'' said Lakers reserve guard Shannon Brown. "It's a big missing piece. It changes a lot of things because of his length and his size.''

Bynum averaged 13.3 points, 7.3 rebounds and 2.67 blocked shots through the first three games of the Finals, negating the Celtics strength around the basket. Without Bynum, the Lakers lack the physicality of the Celtics.

"It bothered us in the second half, not having him out there,'' said Lakers coach Phil Jackson. "It just wasn't there for him tonight. We're glad now we have a couple days off.''

Although Bynum, Jackson and his teammates said they expect him to play Sunday, they all said the same thing prior to Thursday's game, and it didn't happen.

The Lakers are too good and too experienced to panic over Bynum, but they also are showing concern, and with good reason.

"We didn't have that big presence in the middle, and Big Baby took full advantage of it,'' said Lakers star Kobe Bryant, who had a game-high 33 points. "We've played without him in the lineup before. I'm sure we'll figure it out. I'm not sure how yet.''

Bynum, now in his fifth NBA season, missed the playoffs in 2008 with knee problems, and the Lakers were beaten by the Celtics in the NBA Finals, for much the same reason they were beaten Thursday.

Without Bynum, it forces leaner and less physical Pau Gasol to move from power forward to center, and it gives considerable more playing time to Lamar Odom at power forward. He isn't very physical, either.

Odom also has not played well in the Finals. He had 10 points and seven rebounds in 39 minutes Thursday, but he failed to slow Davis late in the game. And he was horrible in the first two games when he got in early foul trouble.

"When he is missing, it's hard to make up for what he gives us,'' Odom said of Bynum. "We needed to do a better job of adjusting to him not being out there. We didn't do that. And that's frustrating.''

Bryant had his best offensive game of the series, getting 33 points while making six of 11 3-pointers. Yet the absence of Bynum around the basket probably contributed to his seven turnovers because he was taking more chances with the ball.

If Bynum can't play for extended minutes, it will put a heavier burden on Bryant at both ends of the court, which could disrupt a lot of things.

In all four games of this series, the team that had more rebounds also won the game. And it's doubtful the Lakers can out-rebound the Celtics without Bynum back on the court.

Bynum started the game and played six minutes before leaving. He played another four minutes in the second period. When his teammates returned to the court to start the second half, he remained in the locker room for more treatment. He looked awful in his two second-half minutes before leaving the game again.

"We had a good rhythm with him in the lineup (in the playoffs),'' Bryant said. "We'll just have to figure it out.''

[21_Blessings]

Yeah, his 20 minutes, 10 points and 6 rebounds sure was monstrous. Did you even watch the game? That was all Kobe and Artest.

You obviously didn't if you think it was 2 vs 5 out there. :lmao

Al Jefferson :lmao

[Giuseppe]

CP3/Okafor for Bynum and fillers this summer. :depressed

Guy, back on top of the world. yesterday:::

"Oh, I'm so afraid."

"Oh, I think I shit myself."

"Oh, Cubby, your Lakers are so mighty. And you're so cute."

"Oh."

[Giuseppe]

Bryant said. "We'll just have to figure it out.''

Thank you, Bryant.

[Giuseppe]

It doesn't need to be 20/10. It just needs to be healthy and able to walk without getting hurt.

But, it turns out his meniscus has been torn since last June. We only were privy to that information when he further tore it in the OKC series.

No explanation as to why it wasn't repaired at the time. Just the news release and ladeeladeeda.

[21_Blessings]

Your horse is in the stable licking his wounds, once again. Only thing funny is how much you overrate him.

At least that horse still plays defense even on one hoof. What's funny is you calling Bynum a bum right after sucking off a chubby, drunken driving Al Jefferson that just recently tore his ACL :lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's been torn since last June? Wtf? That's really fuckin stupid not to get it repaired then.

[Giuseppe]

It's been torn since last June? Wtf? That's really fuckin stupid not to get it repaired then.

Of course it was stupid. And nobody asks nary a question about it since? It's BS.

[JamStone]

What they say on the broadcasts suggest that Bynum could have chosen surgery right away but he didn't want to risk missing the NBA Finals. It's a risk-reward type of thing obviously because not only is he waiting to get surgery on it, but he's playing on it, which could do further and future damage to the knee.

However, if it was since last June and he didn't get it repaired, you'd have to assume it was because they didn't know about it until he tore it further more recently. Otherwise, from an organization standpoint, they'd be risking his career by not having addressed it sooner.

[DPG21920]

If you are building a team around someone or trading for talent, it is Bosh easily. If you are looking for fit, then Bynum fits LA better.

But in the NBA, you don't pass up on better talent for the most part. Bosh would be a very good trade chip as well. Certainly more than Bynum.

[Giuseppe]

If you are building a team around someone or trading for talent, it is Bosh easily. If you are looking for fit, then Bynum fits LA better.

But in the NBA, you don't pass up on better talent for the most part. Bosh would be a very good trade chip as well. Certainly more than Bynum.

Hi, dumpling.

[21_Blessings]

This is not about Jefferson. Obviously he's the better player,
:rollinDig that grave deep.


but we're talking about that stiff that you've fallen for.

The stiff you can't stop obsessing over. The same stiff that you believe will fufill your RuPaulish wet dream.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200902270PHO.html

lol Bosh

[21_Blessings]

But in the NBA, you don't pass up on better talent for the most part. Bosh would be a very good trade chip as well. Certainly more than Bynum.

Bynum has more defensive talent in his left big toe than Bosh has in his entire existence.

Bosh has peaked and if he gets the max it will be almost impossible to move for fair value.

Bynum is 3-5 years away from his peak. The last year of his contract is a team option which would be way fucking easier to move than a 5-6 year max Bosh albatross.

[Kamala]

I am a long-distance runner and I tore the right medial meniscus and had to have around 20% of it removed. The rehab wasn't long, but I was told by my surgeon to stop running period if I wanted to avoid a knee replacement down the line. Needless to say my stubborn ass is still running (moderately) but I'm pretty damn sure it's torn again and it swells and takes a week of complete inactivity and icing to go down.

My point is Bynum is probably tearing that meniscus a little more each time he suits up. If he is having parts of it removed and it can't be repaired sooner or later than bone grinding will halt his career. From what I understand this is the other part of the meniscus than last year's tear. The Lakers will have to decide if they are going to ride this kid's talent and deal with the knee issues or deal him in exchange for another big. Bigs with his skill set don't grow on trees, but if anyone can get them it's the Laker FO.

[Ashy Larry]

This is true, but of course Laker fans will argue this as well. As if the two ass thrashing during the regular season wasn't enough proof that Boston was just the better team that year.


totally agree

[Giuseppe]

We got one begging to come to LA. Ship his ass out!!!!

I remember all the assholes begging to come to LA: Richmond, Murray, Radmo, that idiot guard from Detroit who couldn't find his ass with both hands in LA, but, once he got back to Detroit was right as the mail, Radmo, Walker, etc, etc, Radmo, etc.

[Agloco]

We're talking about a relatively non-invasive procedure on a 22 year old. Not a knee replacement on a 40 year old.


I think this is what you meant.....problem is, any surgery, arthroscopic or otherwise is highly invasive and requires dilligent rehab or perhaps lifestyle modification to prevent future recurrences.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol Radmo

[Brazil]

Maybe I'm wrong but I think the Lakers would win even without bynum from now on.

[JamStone]

How in the hell does he fit? The guy even has admitted to not be able to play with Pau. By default we're stuck with him due to Odom's lack of desire to be a starter.

Probably more so if you look at it defensively. Bynum has more size, length and strength to bang down low against the bigger centers than Chris Bosh. That's a better fit when playing against teams with a legitimate center.

Offensively, Bynum is more of a traditional big who will stay down at the low block more. But probably what's more of a fit with Bynum isn't his ability or inability to play with Pau but the fact that he doesn't need a lot of shot attempts. If you add Bosh to Kobe and Gasol, now you're talking about an even more difficult distribution of shot attempts among the players on the team. Perhaps Kobe sacrifices some, but I wouldn't expect a lot. Pau has already sacrificed shot attempts since joining the Lakers and has already bitched about it a few times. Bosh is the type of offensive talent you want to give shot attempts to. That's what would make it tougher, and possibly not as good a fit as Bynum, who is maybe not content with it but accepts the fact that most of his shot attempts are going to be off offensive putbacks and maybe early in the game.

But again, Bynum being a "better fit" probably goes more to what he brings to the Lakers defensively.

[21_Blessings]

I think this is what you meant.....problem is, any surgery, arthroscopic or otherwise is highly invasive and requires dilligent rehab or perhaps lifestyle modification to prevent future recurrences.

Lifestyle modifications like Kobe not chop blocking into his knee accidentally?

Bynum properly rehabbing or staying in shape is not an issue.

[21_Blessings]

Not like I would lose any sleep over the Lakers getting RuPaul. But it's unlikely it actually happens. Enjoy the KOBYNUM era...:lmao

[LnGrrrR]

Guy, back on top of the world. yesterday:::

"Oh, I'm so afraid."

"Oh, I think I shit myself."

"Oh, Cubby, your Lakers are so mighty. And you're so cute."

"Oh."

You know, what, even if the Lakers get CP3 and dominate the world next year... I don't care right now. Right now, it's all about holding back the evil hordes of LA :)

[Giuseppe]

You know, what, even if the Lakers get CP3 and dominate the world next year... I don't care right now. Right now, it's all about holding back the evil hordes of LA :)

Fine, but, the next time the Celtics go down a game and Guy goes suicidal you talk his ass off the ledge, big shot.

[JamStone]

Kobe will be forced to sacrifice. He already is sacrificing now. It's not his fault that when the clock strikes 10, they all panic and seek him out to bail them out. I'm sure you're aware of the lack of traditional big's in the league. Move Pau to center and Bosh at the 4. It's an easy transition. And now that Bosh has come out and said he want's to play with the Lakers, we'd be fools not to try and secure him.

I don't disagree with that. I was responding to you wondering how it could be viewed that Bynum is a better fit on the Lakers than Bosh. There are legit reasons. Personally, I'd still trade Bynum for Bosh. That doesn't mean there aren't good reasons to think Bynum fits better.

[Giuseppe]

:rollinEver since they gave Jammie his medal he's been posting like Shakespeare.

[JamStone]

If you're going to sour with envy, at least get at me in poetry.

[tlongII]

I would LOVE for the Lakers to deal Bynum for Bosh! We would absolutely OWN that ass for the next 10 years! SIZE MATTERS!

[duncan228]

Bynum or no, Jackson thinks Lakers can win Game 5 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-nbafinals)
By Brian Mahoney

Lakers coach Phil Jackson does not have “any expectations” for injured center Andrew Bynum.

However, there is one thing Jackson is counting on.

“We’re going to try and establish the fact that we’re going back to L.A. with a 3-2 lead,” Jackson said Friday. “We believe we can do it. We felt we let one get away last night.”

More like the rougher and tougher Celtics took it.

With Bynum limited to only 12 minutes and on the bench for nearly the entire second half because of his sore right knee, Boston pounded Los Angeles inside in a 96-89 victory that evened the series at two games apiece.

The Celtics had a 54-34 advantage in points in the paint, with Glen Davis and Boston’s bigs finding room in the areas that Bynum often controls.

“They miss him,” Boston coach Doc Rivers said. “I mean, he has great size and length, and we attacked the paint yesterday, and Andrew wasn’t there. So I mean, obviously when he’s not on the floor, there’s a big difference.”

Neither team practiced Friday, the first of two days off before Game 5 on Sunday night. The break comes at a good time for the Lakers, with Jackson saying he thought Kobe Bryant looked tired late in Thursday’s game.

Jackson hadn’t spoken to Bynum, who planned to see a doctor and get treatment. He has a torn meniscus and recently had fluid drained from the knee, but the swelling has returned. He said Thursday having it drained again could be another option.

He was optimistic he can play Sunday and Jackson will give him the chance if he’s “available and able.” However, Bynum won’t be used if it would hurt himself or the Lakers.

“If he can’t get back in defense transition-wise, and that’s one of the things they’re trying to attack with our first unit obviously, when Andrew is out there is try and run, then obviously he’s going to hurt the team,” Jackson said.

Keep reading... (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-nbafinals)

[tlongII]

I'd send him back to LA and have the knee drained again. It's LA's only hope of winning this series.

[TheManFromAcme]

I would LOVE for the Lakers to deal Bynum for Bosh! We would absolutely OWN that ass for the next 10 years! SIZE MATTERS!

kinda going to have to agree with you on that one tlong. not the owing part but the SIZE MATTERS part.

[JamStone]

When Oden, Przybilla, and Camby all go down to injury, Aldridge and Dante Cunningham aren't really going to be owning many teams in terms of forcing their sheer size on them.

[21_Blessings]

"100 percent sure I'll play come Sunday."

Look out Boston. :bking

[HarlemHeat37]

Was there ever any doubt that he was going to play though?..

It's obviously all about his effectiveness..if his knees are hurting his ability to make quick moves, he's obviously going to pick up quick fouls and leave a hole out there for the Lakers D regardless of whether he's dressed or not..

Odom is still the X-Factor, we'll see how determined he is next game, after being called out by everybody..

[Giuseppe]

^You light the fires, 21.

Luva, you kick the tires.

Harlem, you remain standing at attention.

I'm gonna peek up Jammies skirts and see what's cookin'.

[HarlemHeat37]

http://dailyelements.com/secondteam.gif

[21_Blessings]

:lobt:

[Giuseppe]

http://dailyelements.com/secondteam.gif

Kori!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[duncan228]

Parden the double-post, this is in the previews but I thought it belonged here too. :)

Bynum has right knee drained again (http://www.ocregister.com/sports/bynum-253079-drained-knee.html)
By Kevin Ding
The Orange County Register

When Andrew Bynum left TD Garden on Thursday night, he said draining fluid from his swollen right knee was an option he was unlikely to choose, but Bynum was soon convinced that it was worth a try.

Bynum had his knee drained in the early morning hours Friday -- just as he did before the NBA Finals began when his knee didn't seem to be responding to other sorts of treatment -- in hopes of regaining mobility and function. Bynum also had another MRI on the knee later Friday afternoon with Lakers team doctor Steve Lombardo, and the results showed no new damage. The MRI results were sent for Bynum's personal physician, David Altchek, to review also.

"Nothing new at all," Lakers spokesman John Black said of the findings.

Bynum is officially listed as questionable for Game 5 of the NBA Finals on Sunday night, although the Lakers remain optimistic he'll be able to play and Bynum has said he will be ready. He will continue with his array of other types of treatment to minimize swelling in his knee, which needs surgery to repair torn cartilage.

Last time Bynum had the knee drained on May 31 (the Monday before the NBA Finals began on a Thursday) and tested the knee in practice two days later. Bynum said fluid returned to the knee "about 12 hours" after aspirating the knee anyway, which is not unexpected, but Bynum was effective regardless to start this series -- averaging 13.3 points, 7.3 rebounds and 2.7 blocks in 32 minutes in the first three NBA Finals games.

He was limited to 1:50 of second-half playing time in Game 4 on Thursday night and said the swelling made his knee look "like a basketball."

[mavsfan1000]

Ah Lakers don't need Bynum. They'll win it without him as long as Gasol and Odom are fine.

[tlongII]

Ah Lakers don't need Bynum. They'll win it without him as long as Gasol and Odom are fine.

Bullshit

[Giuseppe]

Bullshit

Not bullshit, t.

The Lakers can win this sans Bynum.

[tlongII]

Not bullshit, t.

The Lakers can win this sans Bynum.

No they can't Cubby. That will be evident soon enough if he doesn't play.

[Giuseppe]

No they can't Cubby. That will be evident soon enough if he doesn't play.

Bynum is not definitive to our success here, t. He's a component, but, it's not cut & dry like you're portraying.

[TheManFromAcme]

Cully,

not even "key" component?

[Giuseppe]

Cully,

not even "key" component?

Sure, you can say "key." But, if he's not there, it's not a permanent void where it's 4 on 5. Adjustments will be made, substitution patterns arranged accordingly. Others will have to step up there game.

Kinda like the guy who's car flips over on the dark, deserted highway. The car lands on his wife, but, she's still alive. He's goes completely bonkers, testosterone flows, and he lifts the car off her and saves her life. Then they go to Sonic for a nice chocolate malt and tots.

Kobe would have to lift Big Baby off Odom.

[tlongII]

Bynum is not definitive to our success here, t. He's a component, but, it's not cut & dry like you're portraying.

The Lakers win because of their size Cubby. No Bynum means no size advantage.

[cobbler]

Probably more so if you look at it defensively. Bynum has more size, length and strength to bang down low against the bigger centers than Chris Bosh. That's a better fit when playing against teams with a legitimate center.

Offensively, Bynum is more of a traditional big who will stay down at the low block more. But probably what's more of a fit with Bynum isn't his ability or inability to play with Pau but the fact that he doesn't need a lot of shot attempts. If you add Bosh to Kobe and Gasol, now you're talking about an even more difficult distribution of shot attempts among the players on the team. Perhaps Kobe sacrifices some, but I wouldn't expect a lot. Pau has already sacrificed shot attempts since joining the Lakers and has already bitched about it a few times. Bosh is the type of offensive talent you want to give shot attempts to. That's what would make it tougher, and possibly not as good a fit as Bynum, who is maybe not content with it but accepts the fact that most of his shot attempts are going to be off offensive putbacks and maybe early in the game.

But again, Bynum being a "better fit" probably goes more to what he brings to the Lakers defensively.

Good post Jammie. Just one note of contention though. He really hasn't sacraficed shot attempts since joining the Lakers.

Memphis career: 13.5 FGA
Laker career: 12.7 FGA

[hitmanyr2k]

Bynum is not definitive to our success here, t. He's a component, but, it's not cut & dry like you're portraying.

Without Bynum in the middle I expect the Celtic perimeter players are going to live in the paint. Ray Allen and Pierce both showed glimpses of it in Game 4 because the usual initimidation by Bynum was missing. Pierce didn't have to chuck long jumpshots anymore. He could put pressure on LA's perimeter defense and get in the paint for 12-15 foot midrange jumpers and he also got to the rim for an "and 1" late in the game. You think that same scenario would happen with Bynum in there? Fuck no :lol His length keeps those guys out of there. And Big Baby tends to rush his shots for fear of being blocked. Without Bynum there Big Baby did whatever the fuck he wanted.

[Ghazi]

I agree w/ Cubster.

Bynum isnt good enough to use as an excuse if the Lakers don't win this series.

Guys just a role player IMHO

[hitmanyr2k]

I agree w/ Cubster.

Bynum isnt good enough to use as an excuse if the Lakers don't win this series.

Guys just a role player IMHO

Bynum is a role player but his role is a very important one when it comes to LA's defense. Defense wins championships.

[HarlemHeat37]

Bynum is definitely a role player, but like hitman said, his role is extremely important..

It's not even just the fact that Bynum is an above average/good defender, it's not even really Bynum as an individual..it's the fact that the Lakers ADD him next to ANOTHER 7-footer, it's obviously their main advantage as a team, even bigger than Kobe, as everybody has obviously noticed over the last 2 years..

[Giuseppe]

I agree w/ Cubster.

Bynum isnt good enough to use as an excuse if the Lakers don't win this series.

There are no excusesPERIOD.

If we fail to end the Celtics, if we lose this there is nothing we can do cept take it like a trooper with nary an excuse.

Odds at this point for our chances? 40/60. But, I can't be trusted with opine when it comes to the Lakers OR Suns. I'm too vested, too fucked up mentally.

[Ghazi]

I dunno about 40/60.. Im inclined to give Lakers an edge since its best of 3, with 2 in LA.

[Giuseppe]

I dunno about 40/60.. Im inclined to give Lakers an edge since its best of 3, with 2 in LA.

You can't rattle Boston, therefore you must earn each point each game. That's difficult to do over the course of a long series.

We'll give shit away: (Walton taking a possession off///Pierce lights him,,,Kobe taking a possession off///Allen lights him.

You can't give anything away in these types series. Orlando? Shit, I'd give my right nut to be tipping in Florida tomorrow evening. They'll follow you down the primrose like shaved pussy.

Tip it///Leave it///Finish it

[MiamiHeat]

once again, just more proof of how overrated Bryant is

needs a stacked team, that has considerable size advantages, personnel advantages, matchup advantages, to win anything.

[Giuseppe]

once again, just more proof of how overrated Bryant is

needs a stacked team, that has considerable size advantages, personnel advantages, matchup advantages, to win anything.

:rolleyesWade and your team ain't ever beat anybody of merit, Heat. The Mavs folded up like a cheap tent in '06. You've been in the shit ever since.

[redzero]

I made a promise to one of your Mav's buddies about not doing your O'fer. You're taxing my promise, asshole.

There is nothing about the Lakers franchise that Ghazi can talk shit about, so I wouldn't be so worried about what he posts.

[duncan228]

Bynum not letting Lakers fall to one knee (http://www.ocregister.com/sports/stand-253158-boston-way.html)
By Kevin Ding
The Orange County Register


We wanted the rivalry renewed.

We waited all season for the Lakers to grow impassioned about playing.

We wondered what strength of heart truly beat inside Andrew Bynum’s fragile body.

He says he’s ready to show us something.

With Bill Russell’s size and Magic Johnson’s easy smile, born the year the Lakers last won a championship over the Celtics in 1987, Bynum is all lit up as he looks forward to “for sure” the biggest game of his life.

Bynum got his injured right knee drained in the hours after the Lakers lost and looked lost with him unable to play even two minutes in the second half of Game 4 of the NBA Finals. He said it’s “guaranteed” the knee will balloon with fluid trying to protect the torn cartilage in there after he plays the tie-breaking Game 5 Sunday night.

“It’s a must-win, I think, honestly,” Bynum said. “Because not only does it give us the advantage in going back home and having two games to finish the job, I think this (Celtics) team doesn’t really want to go to L.A. down. So that’s something mentally for them that they don’t want to happen.

“It’s just a really, really, really big game, and I’m going to be ready for it. I got it drained; I’m ready to go. Take pain-killers, and go at it.”

Bynum is not far off in his assessment: A road team has faced a tie-breaking Game 5 with the safety net of home Games 6 and 7 eight previous times. The Game 5 winner has won seven of those eight series, the lone exception being the 1994 Houston Rockets.

So every time the road team has won the tie-breaking Game 5 the Lakers are trying to claim now, it has won the title.

“We’re in the driver’s seat in this series,” Bynum said.

Bynum does not, however, plan to stay seated and get wheeled dramatically out onto the parquet floor for tip-off, even though we all know there’s a wheelchair somewhere in the arena from Paul Pierce’s safety-first ride in the 2008 NBA Finals.

Bynum is not exactly pulling a Willis Reed here, either. He has been unquestionably professional in fighting off sharp pains and properly medicating. (Shaquille O’Neal wouldn’t even take pain-killers for stretches of his career because they upset his stomach.) Bynum has treated the knee diligently with every known medical advancement and maintained unwavering determination to play every game since his April 30 injury.

But a torn meniscus is not going to affect Bynum long-term, nothing close to the two serious knee injuries he has had the past two years. The rehab for this surgery early next month could be as little as two weeks. Bynum has been assured by his personal physician, New York Mets team doctor David Altchek, that nothing worse can happen and no danger lurks in draining the knee.

Bynum actually doesn’t like needles, which was one reason he didn’t drain the knee midway through the second round of the playoffs. But this being his second drainage in 12 days, he shrugs now.

“Stick it in and take it, that’s kind of the procedure,” he said.

Once he was told he’d have to get it drained to keep playing this time, he signed up immediately. He avoids doing much on his leg after all the fluid cushioning the joint is extracted. After about five hours, enough new fluid is generated to make the knee work again.

Hopefully for Bynum, there won’t be so much fluid collected in there again by 5 p.m. Sunday that his tendons and muscles won’t fire, as was the case last game. He’ll need mobility to navigate the pick-and-rolls that Boston’s Kendrick Perkins and Nate Robinson both said the Celtics will be bringing to attack Bynum’s knee.

It’s not that Bynum is doing anything superhuman. It’s just that he’s determined to be the best human he can. And that’s because – to use his default lingo – he really, really, really wants to win.

“This one will feel great for me, if we win this, honestly, just ‘cause I’ll know what I went through to get it and really just went out and fought through the pain, fought through the injury and got it accomplished,” Bynum said. “And it’s the Celtics, and they beat us (while Bynum sat out in ‘08), so it’s revenge.”

It just goes to show you that no one is born a Marine. The youngest player ever drafted into the NBA at age 17 – hence his uniform number – Bynum wasn’t automatically inclined to do any extra push-ups or fight through any pain. He was automatically inclined to forage the hotel-room mini-bar or swing through the McDonald’s drive-thru.

Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak summed up the distance traveled these past five years with a single word: “maturity.”

Team co-captain Derek Fisher said of Bynum: “He’s made the ultimate sacrifice and tried to pay the ultimate price. As a professional basketball player, your commodity is your body. So for him to take the steps that he’s taking to try and help us win, I think that says a lot about who he is and what his purpose is with our team.”

Ideally for the Lakers, Bynum will face in-house competition to be the bounce-back hero of Game 5.

No word on whether the Lakers injected the removed fluid from Bynum into Lamar Odom get him lubed up to compete, but Odom on Saturday finally said all the right things – with actual feeling – about needing to play better. Ron Artest is fired up after his productive private conference with Phil Jackson. Even Kobe Bryant is eager to execute better against Boston’s fourth-quarter defense that sends three players his way.

Regardless of whether Bynum plays poorly, though, he will be a success if the Lakers are a success.

When asked if he has changed a lot of opinions about his toughness, the injury-prone Bynum smiled and said: “More so if we win. People will appreciate it more. If not, it’s obviously going to be the same story.”

Boston reserve Glen Davis was actually thinking the exact same thing: He still needs more to make his drooling “Big Baby” face a part of Boston sports history and become toasted forever at New England parties where cocktails will never cease being raised for Ted Williams, Bobby Orr, Larry Bird and Tom Brady – but also Bernie Carbo.

Davis went from breaking his hand in a fight in a car with his best friend two days before the season opener to stealing the show in Game 4 of the NBA Finals.

“People will remember it if we win it,” Davis said. “People won’t remember it if we lose.”

That’s because legends are not losers.

Give Bynum his due respect for now. The glory must wait.

[21_Blessings]

“Stick it in and take it, that’s kind of the procedure,” he said.



That's exactly what he's going to do to Boston tonight.