Anyway to get Collison/Okafor?

[spursfan1000]

The Hornets are back in luxury tax territory heading into the 2010-11 season and Marc Stein of ESPN.com writes that they will likely be active on the trade market.

Rival teams will try to convince New Orleans to trade Chris Paul, but it's much more likely that they'll part with promising backup point guard Darren Collison.

Stein writes that the Hornets will likely ask any team interested in Collison to also take one of their cap-clogging contracts -- Emeka Okafor, James Posey or Peja Stojakovic


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67150/20100612/hornets_may_make_collison_available/#ixzz0qgWiehpj



Just a thought.

[Ditty]

the hornets should trade paul for the #3 pick

but collison is a good player but dont need him

okafor is a bust but his price you can get a big body like him that you could get cheaper in the draft

[cd98]

the hornets should trade paul for the #3 pick

but collison is a good player but dont need him

okafor is a bust but his price you can get a big body like him that you could get cheaper in the draft

Would the Hornets trade the best point guard in the league for the 3rd pick?

[ducks]

better then letting him walk in a fa when he is one

[Agloco]

Would the Hornets trade the best point guard in the league for the 3rd pick?

The best PG resides in Boston. The third best PG for the #3? Better not let ynh see this stuff.....

[ChuckD]

Pssst. If you picked up Collison and Okafor for RJ's expiring, you'd have your plug in center, admittedly an overpaid one, and a PG you could plug in and then take Tony shopping on the trade market for a big time scoring 2 or 3.

:stirpot::stirpot:

[UnWantedTheory]

^^^ Uh, yeah. But I doubt that happens.

[8FOR!3]

If he can get us 10 points and 10 rebounds I'd be willing to take on Okafor if it brought in Collison. People say we don't need a guy like Collison, but my one problem with Parker is that he's a scoring guard and not a traditional point guard, that doesn't mean he's not one of the best point guards in the league, but I think a guy like Darren Collison would fit in better with the team because he'd do a little better job at distributing the ball. Now that you've got a scorer in George Hill, it'd be nice to have a guy like DC2 who could make Hill, Ginobili, and even Timmy's job a little bit easier. And you've also got to take into consideration that Okafor's still got a tad bit of upside, he's a little younger than Parker, if only by a year and he hasn't been playing as long. Darren Collison on the other hand is 22, huge potential to tap into. Parker's got 5 years of prime left and maybe a couple more good years after that before he starts to slow down, but something like that is still worth looking into.

[UnWantedTheory]

Okafor has career averages of 13 pts 10 Rebs. 2 Blks(almost)...and a FG % of 50. Too bad he is a terrible FT shooter. But whatevs on that one. That doesnt sound to bad to me. Sound great actually. I think getting DC would be a great move. Who knows what Tony will do after this year so he could be a cheap insurance policy that is only 22. The problems are it would take more than RJ and his contract. So what else are we willing to give up? Also Okafor made 10 Mil last year, so what is he making this year? How long is the contract for? Too lazy to look that part of him up. Overall I would jump if we could get that for just RJ. But That is fantasy land IMO.

[UnWantedTheory]

I also doubt TP has 5 years of "prime" in him left. Perhaps 3. He has tons of mileage.

[duncan228]

also okafor made 10 mil last year, so what is he making this year? How long is the contract for?

2010-11: $11,795,000

2011-12: $12,792,500

2012-13: $13,790,000

2013-14: $14,787,500 (eto)

[MateoNeygro]

Just a thought.

crazy that you say that. I picked them up on my Spurs team from NBA2K10.

[UnWantedTheory]

2010-11: $11,795,000

2011-12: $12,792,500

2012-13: $13,790,000

2013-14: $14,787,500 (eto)

Eh, ouch....

[UnWantedTheory]

Thats alot of money....^^^

[UnWantedTheory]

Also what does our SF position look like with RJ out with that proposed trade? I suppose we would then focus on vet. min. free agents, our LLE, and our MLE signings to be impactful. I am not sold on Splitter coming over or how big of an impact he will have so we most certainly need to address the front court somehow. We just dont have the size to truly contend.

[TDMVPDPOY]

wtf are they willing to accept, no point in trying to trade parker to them if cp3 is going to bolt and parker bolting to another team, then they are left with no marquee player

[mosdef17]

The best PG resides in Boston. The third best PG for the #3? Better not let ynh see this stuff.....

Haha no he doesn't, Rondo is probably 3rd best I think... CP3 and Deron still have him covered. CP3s playmaking ability is superior to that of Rondos and I think Pauls rebound averages sit around 4-5rbpg which is very good from your Point Guard. Not to mention he gets you the 20 points shooting at a higher percentage overall (when you consider fg, ft and 3pt).

[DesignatedT]

wouldnt mind taking collison and okafor for jefferson and co. lol

[Chieflion]

wouldnt mind taking collison and okafor for jefferson and co. lol

Wouldn't mind? Spurs fans would kick Jefferson and company to the curb for Collison and Okafor.

[UnWantedTheory]

Of course we woulddnt mind Okafor and Collison. That would be huge for us. But there are problems with taking them on. Oka's contract is one, and the other is what do we have to give with RJ besides TP that we are willing to part with? Giving up TP is obviously not going to help either team unless they are trying to give us CP3 which we all know wont happen. So its RJ and what?? Can we take on Oka's contract?

[mosdef17]

It would have to be RJ and George Hill and the Spurs would need to have committed to making Darren Collison our PG of the future.. A lot has to happen, it's not just a simple 2 for 2 scenario.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Wouldn't mind? Spurs fans would kick Jefferson and company to the curb for Collison and Okafor.

Spurs fans maybe, but Spurs FO - not a chance.

[iManu]

Chris Paul is one of the best point guards in basketball history.

Just saying.

[ChuckD]

Thats alot of money....^^^

Which is why they're moving him, and you might get him for RJ's expiring. It's the new NBA economics.

[ChuckD]

It would have to be RJ and George Hill and the Spurs would need to have committed to making Darren Collison our PG of the future.. A lot has to happen, it's not just a simple 2 for 2 scenario.

Actually, if you're lightening their salary load by $39M for the three years past next season, they're really not in the position to ask for anything BUT salary relief, like George or DeJuan.

I think you only pull the trigger on something like this if you know Splitter is NOT coming.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

It might be just me, but Okafor appears to be deteriorating already. The fact that he is only 27, and he still has 4 years left on his contract makes this pretty alarming if you are considering trading for him.

[Agloco]

haha no he doesn't, rondo is probably 3rd best i think... Cp3 and deron still have him covered. Cp3s playmaking ability is superior to that of rondos and i think pauls rebound averages sit around 4-5rbpg which is very good from your point guard. Not to mention he gets you the 20 points shooting at a higher percentage overall (when you consider fg, ft and 3pt).

ok.

[ChuckD]

It might be just me, but Okafor appears to be deteriorating already. The fact that he is only 27, and he still has 4 years left on his contract makes this pretty alarming if you are considering trading for him.

He's not a good fit in NO, because they are a transition based team. He's not deteriorating as much as having his minutes curtailed. He got 10/9 in only like 27 minutes last year.

BTW, 27 is not that old for a big man, quite young, in fact. They tend to have much longer careers than a quick guard or a wing player with springs. When his contract is done, he'll be two years younger than Duncan is right now.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

He's not a good fit in NO, because they are a transition based team. He's not deteriorating as much as having his minutes curtailed. He got 10/9 in only like 27 minutes last year.

BTW, 27 is not that old for a big man, quite young, in fact. They tend to have much longer careers than a quick guard or a wing player with springs. When his contract is done, he'll be two years younger than Duncan is right now.



Exactly, which is why it is even more alarming that he looks like he is regressing at a young age.

[ChuckD]

Exactly, which is why it is even more alarming that he looks like he is regressing at a young age.

He's in the wrong system. A running team does not play to his strengths. There's nothing wrong with him that playing on a half court team wouldn't cure.

[lotr1trekkie]

Trading RJ for two expiring contracts make sense. Expecting value in return is insane.

[UnWantedTheory]

He's in the wrong system. A running team does not play to his strengths. There's nothing wrong with him that playing on a half court team wouldn't cure.

^^^ What he said.

Isnt he a Texas boy?

[spurs10]

Okafor's contract is what kills this in all probability....I didn't know it was so fat....plus I'm thinking Splitter is coming...it's gonna be a long couple of weeks.

[ChuckD]

Trading RJ for two expiring contracts make sense. Expecting value in return is insane.


Which is why they're moving him, and you might get him for RJ's expiring. It's the new NBA economics.

You think we're not providing value by "lifting" $39M right off NO's books? That is a franchise that is in fucking financial trouble. They've been trading "something" for "nothing" for about the last 15 months just to get "something" off their books before tax calculation time.

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs get Tiago, there is no need for Okafor.

[UnWantedTheory]

We dont know what Tiago can provide for us or the NBA. We know for a fact what Oka brings. Too bad it costs 11+ Mil a year to get it. So it wont happen. BUT...I am not even remotely close to being sold on Splitter solving our front court problems.

[safetypickle]

collison/okafor
for
jefferson/splitter

- no gets rid of okafors contract, and picks up jefferson who will be an expiring after the season
- jefferson and okafor both get to play in systems that better suit their playstyle
- no gets a relatively cheap bigman with potential
- sa gets a solid big (13ppg/10rpg/2blk career, anyone think splitter will put up similar numbers? )who can play good minutes next to duncan, and a more traditional young pg

this is all under the assumption that the sa fo are not interested in giving parker an extension and are worried he will bolt after the season or continue his summer play. this trade leaves us with a large gaping whole at the sf position, which could be filled with a parker trade ( gallinari/gay/trade for #3 ?) and a backup sf with the #20.

[Agloco]

If the Spurs get Tiago, there is no need for Okafor.

Gotta disagree with this and go with:


We dont know what Tiago can provide for us or the NBA. We know for a fact what Oka brings. Too bad it costs 11+ Mil a year to get it. So it wont happen. BUT...I am not even remotely close to being sold on Splitter solving our front court problems.

Unfortunately, Okafor is too expensive for Holts taste, especially after the whole Jefferson episode.

[UnWantedTheory]

I am surprised there are not more people jumping on this.

[UnWantedTheory]

collison/okafor
for
jefferson/splitter

- no gets rid of okafors contract, and picks up jefferson who will be an expiring after the season
- jefferson and okafor both get to play in systems that better suit their playstyle
- no gets a relatively cheap bigman with potential
- sa gets a solid big (13ppg/10rpg/2blk career, anyone think splitter will put up similar numbers? )who can play good minutes next to duncan, and a more traditional young pg

this is all under the assumption that the sa fo are not interested in giving parker an extension and are worried he will bolt after the season or continue his summer play. this trade leaves us with a large gaping whole at the sf position, which could be filled with a parker trade ( gallinari/gay/trade for #3 ?) and a backup sf with the #20.

That is about a semi-realistic picture perfect take. We could do better, but obviously a hell of a lot worse. Cheers to that. Lets hope we come up with something similar to the value of this. 13 10 2 would look great next to Duncan. So would a very good young PG talent as insurance. Ah well,...probably wishful thinking.

[redzero]

Why get Collison win you have Tony "Finals MVP" Parker and George "Mavs Killer" Hill?

[admiralsnackbar]

Why get Collison win you have Tony "Finals MVP" Parker and George "Mavs Killer" Hill?

Because trades are more exciting than working with what you have or having faith that the best big in Europe at a discount price will be more useful than an over-priced, under-sized, perennially injured center with middling success in the NBA.

Collison is a great player, but we don't need him as much as a versatile 3, and trading useful players for Okafor will only guarantee us the same mediocrity Charlotte and NO have enjoyed.

[8FOR!3]

Because trades are more exciting than working with what you have or having faith that the best big in Europe at a discount price will be more useful than an over-priced, under-sized, perennially injured center with middling success in the NBA.

Collison is a great player, but we don't need him as much as a versatile 3, and trading useful players for Okafor will only guarantee us the same mediocrity Charlotte and NO have enjoyed.

False on Okafor, he would thrive in our system. I'm not saying he'd turn into an all star, but he wouldn't be a liability.

[admiralsnackbar]

False on Okafor, he would thrive in our system. I'm not saying he'd turn into an all star, but he wouldn't be a liability.

Considering his career problems with injuries, I beg to differ.

[Chieflion]

Considering his career problems with injuries, I beg to differ.

You mean the last 3 seasons where he played all 246 games?

[JonNOKC]

Splitter > Okafor

If Tiago is coming over he will be a better overall player than Okafor over the next 5 years - the only exception may be next year (Spiltter's 1st NBA season)

[Agloco]

Because trades are more exciting than working with what you have or having faith that the best big in Europe at a discount price will be more useful than an over-priced, under-sized, perennially injured center with middling success in the NBA.

Collison is a great player, but we don't need him as much as a versatile 3, and trading useful players for Okafor will only guarantee us the same mediocrity Charlotte and NO have enjoyed.

Okafor isn't the issue here, it's his contract. Do you believe that Splitter will also average 13/10/2 over his NBA tenure? I don't see it.

I also don't see RJ being a valuable contributor going forward. He's gotta be moved, period.


Splitter > Okafor

If Tiago is coming over he will be a better overall player than Okafor over the next 5 years - the only exception may be next year (Spiltter's 1st NBA season)

:lmao

At the NBA level, this is straight up false. Splitter hasn't played a minute of NBA ball while Okafor has averaged 13/10/2 over his career. That's a double double for those not paying attention. I don't see Splitter doing that.

[Agloco]

Considering his career problems with injuries, I beg to differ.


You mean the last 3 seasons where he played all 246 games?

Beat me to it......:toast

[admiralsnackbar]

You mean the last 3 seasons where he played all 246 games?

No, I mean the fact that he lost sensation in his feet before being traded when he has a known issue with his back. He may have played solid minutes/games, but he's had known spinal issues since his draft and he's gotten no younger.

[admiralsnackbar]

And for the record, I think Splitter will be better with the Spurs than Okafor would be, cost considered.

[JonNOKC]

Okafor isn't the issue here, it's his contract. Do you believe that Splitter will also average 13/10/2 over his NBA tenure? I don't see it.

I also don't see RJ being a valuable contributor going forward. He's gotta be moved, period.



:lmao

At the NBA level, this is straight up false. Splitter hasn't played a minute of NBA ball while Okafor has averaged 13/10/2 over his career. That's a double double for those not paying attention. I don't see Splitter doing that.

We will see but if you look at the 2 players there is no reason to think that Tiago wouldn't average 15/10 during the prime of his career

Shooting they are about the same, low post scoring Splitter is better, pick and roll offense Splitter is better, rebounding slight edge to Okafor, defense about the same with Okafor having edge as weakside shot blocker - looking at Okafor coming out of college was overrated as shot blocker - Splitter athletically is very similar to the Gasol brothers who aren't labeled as shot blockers but average the same amount of blocks as Okafor

And on that note M. Gasol basically put up Okafor numbers his 1st 2 years with good improvement from year 1 to year 2 - pretty much what I would expect from Splitter with possible exception of scoring (as his opportunities may be limited, depending on how Pop uses hime)

Splitter's biggest challenge in his rookie year will be dependable defensive rotations and staying out of foul trouble

[UnWantedTheory]

Considering his career problems with injuries, I beg to differ.

You are completely wrong on the injury take.

[UnWantedTheory]

No, I mean the fact that he lost sensation in his feet before being traded when he has a known issue with his back. He may have played solid minutes/games, but he's had known spinal issues since his draft and he's gotten no younger.

Well staying at a steady 13 10 2 with these "injuries" while not missing much time is ok with me. 3 years in a row playing every game.......what an injury bug he must have while keeping up those averages.

[UnWantedTheory]

Because trades are more exciting than working with what you have or having faith that the best big in Europe at a discount price will be more useful than an over-priced, under-sized, perennially injured center with middling success in the NBA.

Collison is a great player, but we don't need him as much as a versatile 3, and trading useful players for Okafor will only guarantee us the same mediocrity Charlotte and NO have enjoyed.

The best big in Europe? Ok and? What does that mean for us? He is not going to get you 13 10 2 over his career.
We just got bounced out of the PO with a broom so thats why we cant work with what we have or have your "faith"....and we shouldnt. We dont have a team capable of winning a ring as is. Is Okafor overpriced? Yes. Undersized at 6 '10? No. Again as stated earlier, he is not perennially injured....and that middling success he has had is exactly what we need.
I am not saying lets do this trade, because it honestly wont happen. I am just saying Tiago is probably not going to fix our frontcourt problems. I advocate any moves necessary to kill two birds with one ugly fucking stone.:flag:

[UnWantedTheory]

We will see but if you look at the 2 players there is no reason to think that Tiago wouldn't average 15/10 during the prime of his career

Shooting they are about the same, low post scoring Splitter is better, pick and roll offense Splitter is better, rebounding slight edge to Okafor, defense about the same with Okafor having edge as weakside shot blocker - looking at Okafor coming out of college was overrated as shot blocker - Splitter athletically is very similar to the Gasol brothers who aren't labeled as shot blockers but average the same amount of blocks as Okafor

And on that note M. Gasol basically put up Okafor numbers his 1st 2 years with good improvement from year 1 to year 2 - pretty much what I would expect from Splitter with possible exception of scoring (as his opportunities may be limited, depending on how Pop uses hime)

Splitter's biggest challenge in his rookie year will be dependable defensive rotations and staying out of foul trouble

Not to mention learning the entire NBA game. During the prime of his career? Isnt He 25 already? TD wont even be here when Tiago hits his peak. So yeah, maybe Tiago gets to average 15/10 on a non-playoff team. Good job with that one.

[JonNOKC]

Not to mention learning the entire NBA game. During the prime of his career? Isnt He 25 already? TD wont even be here when Tiago hits his peak. So yeah, maybe Tiago gets to average 15/10 on a non-playoff team. Good job with that one.

There is no doubt that we have one proven player with proven production versus a guy who has never done it in the NBA - it just comes down to scouting the two guys which is never an exact science but if you took 10 of the better scouts in the NBA and had them look at the two players today - 8 out of ten would conclude that Tiago is the better player and had a higher ceiling - not by a long shot but I think its pretty conclusive.

As far as learning the "entire" NBA game it is still basketball - the two best comps in the league (in terms of overall skill set and exp in Europe previous to NBA) are M Gasol and Scola - Gasol put up 12 and 7.5 in 30 mins rookie year and Scola put up 10 and 6.5 in 25 minutes and they did it shooting well over 50% from field not as volume shooters on bad teams.

I have no problem with Okafor and he is a very solid player - but I wouldn't do such a deal if it is even plausible if it meant giving up Splitter or Blair - I think winning another championship before TD retires realistically is a long shot - so I wouldn't give up young, CHEAP, high potential big guys for a solid, slightly overpaid veteran

[UnWantedTheory]

There is no doubt that we have one proven player with proven production versus a guy who has never done it in the NBA - it just comes down to scouting the two guys which is never an exact science but if you took 10 of the better scouts in the NBA and had them look at the two players today - 8 out of ten would conclude that Tiago is the better player and had a higher ceiling - not by a long shot but I think its pretty conclusive.

As far as learning the "entire" NBA game it is still basketball - the two best comps in the league (in terms of overall skill set and exp in Europe previous to NBA) are M Gasol and Scola - Gasol put up 12 and 7.5 in 30 mins rookie year and Scola put up 10 and 6.5 in 25 minutes and they did it shooting well over 50% from field not as volume shooters on bad teams.

I have no problem with Okafor and he is a very solid player - but I wouldn't do such a deal if it is even plausible if it meant giving up Splitter or Blair - I think winning another championship before TD retires realistically is a long shot - so I wouldn't give up young, CHEAP, high potential big guys for a solid, slightly overpaid veteran

I do understand what you are saying, but I dont believe it to be anywhere near conclusive. It is hard to compare a proven commodity to an unproven one. Also, the NBA is by far more competitive. Being the MVP of the Euro League is like being the smartest person on the short bus. Well,...maybe not that far, but there is a huge difference. We also dont know how "cheap" he is going to be do we? We are not certain if he even wants to come over, let alone for the MLE, which is all we have to offer. Also, nowhere in this discussion, that i saw anyways, did we bring up getting rid of Blair. Okafor is only 2 years older than Splitter isnt he? Long shot or not, another ring is the goal at the moment. I have not seen a single thing as of yet, that would indicate a blow up. So for the time being we are in a win now mode. Again, I am not trying to push a long shot trade to bring DC/Okafor,....I am simply trying to advocate a move to where we can bring in enough quality talent to contend with the elite teams.:flag:

[redzero]

Because trades are more exciting than working with what you have or having faith that the best big in Europe at a discount price will be more useful than an over-priced, under-sized, perennially injured center with middling success in the NBA.

Collison is a great player, but we don't need him as much as a versatile 3, and trading useful players for Okafor will only guarantee us the same mediocrity Charlotte and NO have enjoyed.

Okafor hasn't missed a single game in 3 seasons.

[Vito Corleone]

In the long run Splitter might be better, but right now Okafur is better for us. He allows us to put a big strong body next to Timmy that can score, defend, and rebound. He may not be the franchise player we want, but he would be the best player we ever put next to Timmy since five-O left.

Getting both him and Collins would solidify both our backcourt and our front court.

For those two I would be willing to trade both Richard Jefferson and our 1st round selection.

Bringing both him an Splitter over would put us right up there with the Lakers as far as our front court goes. Not to mention Parker, Hill Collison, and Manu would make our backcourt pretty salty.

[kaji157]

Splitter is the best big realistically available for us. Even if it takes over 5 millions to bring him.
I just hope that if he asks for this much we also ask for a severe team option after two years. I mean, 2 years guaranteed at 10 millions, but then a 3 years 15 millions team option after that.

[Mel_13]

Splitter is the best big realistically available for us. Even if it takes over 5 millions to bring him.
I just hope that if he asks for this much we also ask for a severe team option after two years. I mean, 2 years guaranteed at 10 millions, but then a 3 years 15 millions team option after that.

Can't structure a contract that way.

[phxspurfan]

If we can unload RJ's contract and get Okafor + DC, I think we do it. Pending the filler that we may/may not have to include (if its GH3 no), what we get in return for RJ's expiring is a shot blocker who gives us size to help out Tim and a PG we can shop around or plug into the system, since he is a more capable passer than TP. Then we can move GH3 to SG full time. Yes we would be in salary trouble for a couple seasons but when Tim leaves we will be shopping Okafor's contract anyway.

[UnWantedTheory]

Splitter is the best big realistically available for us. Even if it takes over 5 millions to bring him.
I just hope that if he asks for this much we also ask for a severe team option after two years. I mean, 2 years guaranteed at 10 mcillions, but then a 3 years 15 millions team option after that.

unrealistic

[ChuckD]

Can't structure a contract that way.

not to mention that after the lockout, no one will be making that money on a new contract..

[UnWantedTheory]

yup yup....

[admiralsnackbar]

Okafor hasn't missed a single game in 3 seasons.


I know, I know... I talked out my ass on that one, then doubled down for no good reason. Alcohol is a hell of a drug.

Anyway, consider this my crow dinner.

[JonNOKC]

If we can unload RJ's contract and get Okafor + DC, I think we do it. Pending the filler that we may/may not have to include (if its GH3 no), what we get in return for RJ's expiring is a shot blocker who gives us size to help out Tim and a PG we can shop around or plug into the system, since he is a more capable passer than TP. Then we can move GH3 to SG full time. Yes we would be in salary trouble for a couple seasons but when Tim leaves we will be shopping Okafor's contract anyway.

Totally agree - RJ + 20th is no brainer, but NO will most likely want one more peice if it could be future draft pick or rights to European that is not Splitter then you pull the trigger - if they want Hill no - Blair (maybe but I would lean to no) It is tough to judge Blair's ceiling and he is very cheap for capable production

If a trade like this went through then we either pickup SF for vet min or leftover MLE if there is any OR does this move lead to TP trade for a SF as our front court would be stacked (TD, Splitter, Okafor, McDyess, Blair)

[UnWantedTheory]

I know, I know... I talked out my ass on that one, then doubled down for no good reason. Alcohol is a hell of a drug.

Anyway, consider this my crow dinner.

Good man.

[UnWantedTheory]

I so loved this idea that has faded away. Give me a RUMOR damnit!