Kobe's greatness beyond question

[duncan228]

The headline of this piece in the newspaper is 'Bryant's Legacy Safe'.

Kobe's greatness beyond question (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/kobe-253811-bryant-nba.html)
By Jeff Miller
The Orange County register


Kobe Bryant wants to win this NBA championship.

Anyone who fails to realize that can’t read body language because, at this moment, Bryant’s body is using terms we simply aren’t permitted to use here.

But Kobe Bryant doesn’t need to win this NBA championship.

Not for any legacy, validation or argument about his greatness.

Bryant’s legacy is as golden as the jersey he’ll be wearing in Game 7. He could retire during the national anthem Thursday and they’d still build him a statue outside Staples Center.

His career needs more validation like Lamar Odom needs more shampoo. Eight times he has been on the All-NBA team. Eight times he has been on the All-Defensive team. He has been MVP of the All-Star Game, the Finals and the league.

His greatness cannot be questioned any more successfully than his fadeaway jumper still can be defended. Bryant has won four championships and, just for emphasis, done so with two distinctively different teams.

The only significant gap – and we’re using that term just for the sake of argument – in Bryant’s resume was filled exactly a year ago when he won everything without getting anything from Shaquille O’Neal.

Understand a fact right here: We aren’t in any Kobe Bryant fan clubs. We’ve been critical of his play, his arrogance and his whining for fouls – and that has just been during these playoffs.

We don’t believe Bryant, in his most complete form, is Michael Jordan’s equal because Jordan, despite also possessing a maniacal drive to win and unquestioned arrogance, remained likeable throughout his career.

We also don’t believe Bryant is even the best player in the NBA today. LeBron James is superior, although until James proves he can win something in May, not to mention June, the best-of-all title is hollow.

But the idea that winning Game 7 now – and only by winning Game 7 now – will complete Bryant is the talk of fools. We all should be so fortunate to live such incomplete lives.

So Bryant has yet to win a title by beating a collection of players wearing Celtics uniforms. That’s what this suddenly is all about? Seriously?

Bryant will not be facing Bill Russell or Larry Bird or even Jerry Sichting in this next game. Thursday night has nothing to do with what Jerry West or Magic Johnson did in other eras.

It makes for a nice portrait, the symmetry of the two most successful franchises in NBA history occupying yet another all-time moment together. But, like every other picture, there’s no real substance beyond what can be seen.

Bryant will be beating – yes, the Lakers will win Game 7, you read it here first – guys like Rasheed Wallace and Nate Robinson, among others. Not exactly names that will be etched in Celtic lore.

We get it, OK, all the history between these franchises. But Magic versus Bird was a rivalry that changed college basketball, that defined the NBA for a stretch, that they’re still writing books about.

A quarter century from now, is anyone going to be writing volumes about Kobe versus The Truth? Is anyone going to remember who was nicknamed The Truth?

West famously never beat the Celtics in the Finals. There was a time when this was a topic people often discussed. People, though, used to talk about cordless phones, too.

Please realize that there are generations of Lakers fans, some of whom probably own No. 44 gold jerseys, who don’t even know West never beat Boston for a title.

With the all-time greats, history remembers the good things way longer than the bad. And in the example of Bryant, he has provided so many more things that will be recalled first.

If this is all about history, which is what we’re being told over and over, Bryant’s failure to topple the evil Celtics wouldn’t survive the test of time. Besides, like we said, he will topple Boston shortly.

A poll on ESPN’s Web site this week asked where Bryant belongs in the argument about the NBA’s all-time great players and how winning this series would impact his position. One of the answers was nowhere, meaning he isn’t even among the best.

Here, we’re presenting our own poll. By suggesting Bryant doesn’t merit consideration, people are: 1) Smoking, sniffing or drinking too much; 2) Mindless fans of Jordan; or 3) Deceased.

Kobe Bryant is among the greatest players to ever dribble a basketball. He might never be the best, but he’s close enough to the top – and right now, we mean – to high-five anyone considered No. 1.

Think of it this way: If basketball’s all-time pickup game was staged and let’s say Jordan and Magic were named captains, do you actually think both of them would make four selections before picking Bryant? Please.

Winning Game 7 won’t make Bryant’s career. It’s already made. This victory will only make a great career greater.

[Killakobe81]

The headline of this piece in the newspaper is 'Bryant's Legacy Safe'.

Kobe's greatness beyond question (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/kobe-253811-bryant-nba.html)
By Jeff Miller
The Orange County register


Kobe Bryant wants to win this NBA championship.

Anyone who fails to realize that can’t read body language because, at this moment, Bryant’s body is using terms we simply aren’t permitted to use here.

But Kobe Bryant doesn’t need to win this NBA championship.

Can't say I agree completely ... but i get the point.

Not for any legacy, validation or argument about his greatness.

Bryant’s legacy is as golden as the jersey he’ll be wearing in Game 7. He could retire during the national anthem Thursday and they’d still build him a statue outside Staples Center.

His career needs more validation like Lamar Odom needs more shampoo. Eight times he has been on the All-NBA team. Eight times he has been on the All-Defensive team. He has been MVP of the All-Star Game, the Finals and the league.

His greatness cannot be questioned any more successfully than his fadeaway jumper still can be defended. Bryant has won four championships and, just for emphasis, done so with two distinctively different teams.

The only significant gap – and we’re using that term just for the sake of argument – in Bryant’s resume was filled exactly a year ago when he won everything without getting anything from Shaquille O’Neal.

Understand a fact right here: We aren’t in any Kobe Bryant fan clubs. We’ve been critical of his play, his arrogance and his whining for fouls – and that has just been during these playoffs.

I wish he would take some of this out of his game ...but he is still the best player until Lebron validates he is better by winning on this stage.

We don’t believe Bryant, in his most complete form, is Michael Jordan’s equal because Jordan, despite also possessing a maniacal drive to win and unquestioned arrogance, remained likeable throughout his career.

i agree that kobe is NOT = to MJ but not sure MJ was TRULY likeable he was revered and put on a pedestal because he was so far above his peers.
We also don’t believe Bryant is even the best player in the NBA today. LeBron James is superior, although until James proves he can win something in May, not to mention June, the best-of-all title is hollow.

amen.

But the idea that winning Game 7 now – and only by winning Game 7 now – will complete Bryant is the talk of fools. We all should be so fortunate to live such incomplete lives.

So Bryant has yet to win a title by beating a collection of players wearing Celtics uniforms. That’s what this suddenly is all about? Seriously?

Bryant will not be facing Bill Russell or Larry Bird or even Jerry Sichting in this next game. Thursday night has nothing to do with what Jerry West or Magic Johnson did in other eras.

It makes for a nice portrait, the symmetry of the two most successful franchises in NBA history occupying yet another all-time moment together. But, like every other picture, there’s no real substance beyond what can be seen.

Bryant will be beating – yes, the Lakers will win Game 7, you read it here first – guys like Rasheed Wallace and Nate Robinson, among others. Not exactly names that will be etched in Celtic lore.

We get it, OK, all the history between these franchises. But Magic versus Bird was a rivalry that changed college basketball, that defined the NBA for a stretch, that they’re still writing books about.

A quarter century from now, is anyone going to be writing volumes about Kobe versus The Truth? Is anyone going to remember who was nicknamed The Truth?

West famously never beat the Celtics in the Finals. There was a time when this was a topic people often discussed. People, though, used to talk about cordless phones, too.

Please realize that there are generations of Lakers fans, some of whom probably own No. 44 gold jerseys, who don’t even know West never beat Boston for a title.

With the all-time greats, history remembers the good things way longer than the bad. And in the example of Bryant, he has provided so many more things that will be recalled first.

If this is all about history, which is what we’re being told over and over, Bryant’s failure to topple the evil Celtics wouldn’t survive the test of time. Besides, like we said, he will topple Boston shortly.

A poll on ESPN’s Web site this week asked where Bryant belongs in the argument about the NBA’s all-time great players and how winning this series would impact his position. One of the answers was nowhere, meaning he isn’t even among the best.

Here, we’re presenting our own poll. By suggesting Bryant doesn’t merit consideration, people are: 1) Smoking, sniffing or drinking too much; 2) Mindless fans of Jordan; or 3) Deceased.

Kobe Bryant is among the greatest players to ever dribble a basketball. He might never be the best, but he’s close enough to the top – and right now, we mean – to high-five anyone considered No. 1.

Think of it this way: If basketball’s all-time pickup game was staged and let’s say Jordan and Magic were named captains, do you actually think both of them would make four selections before picking Bryant? Please.

absolutely

Winning Game 7 won’t make Bryant’s career. It’s already made. This victory will only make a great career greater.

Overall good article but I think Kobe still needs this one ...wont make him less great if he doesnt win ... but he will lose some luster.

but if he does it adds to his legacy ...

[Giuseppe]

Losing at Six woulda been dicey.

Losing at Seven will keep him silent in public.

[Man In Black]

His career needs more validation like Lamar Odom needs more shampoo. Eight times he has been on the All-NBA team. Eight times he has been on the All-Defensive team. He has been MVP of the All-Star Game, the Finals and the league.

His greatness cannot be questioned any more successfully than his fadeaway jumper still can be defended. Bryant has won four championships and, just for emphasis, done so with two distinctively different teams.
A little change it looks like this:
His career needs more validation like Richard Jefferson needs more shampoo. TWELVE times he has been on the All-NBA team. TWELVE times he has been on the All-Defensive team. He has been MVP of the All-Star Game, 3 times in the Finals and 2 times in the league.

His greatness cannot be questioned any more successfully than his off-glass jumper still can be defended. DUNCAN has won four championships and, just for emphasis, done so with two distinctively different teams.

I'm just saying. Oh and Tim, for the finals...UNDEFEATED!

[Giuseppe]

I'm just saying. Oh and Tim, for the finals...UNDEFEATED!

But, a total chronological failure at repeating.

[Man In Black]

But, a total chronological failure at repeating.

The repeat thing again. It's a cycle. Before the Showtime Lakers fulfilled the back-to-back prophecy that Riley led, the NBA had 17 straight seasons of 1 year champs. Now we have had a repeat cycle, but...UNLESS of course...the Celtics win. Then what? Kobe wasn't good enough to lead his team back-to-back without Shaq? Watch...the crying game 2, the sequel...it could happen.

You couldn't counter anything else. I'll give you that one. I knew it was coming but any 2nd grade mathematician knows that 12 is higher than 8 :)

[Giuseppe]

The repeat thing again. It's a cycle. Before the Showtime Lakers fulfilled the back-to-back prophecy that Riley led, the NBA had 17 straight seasons of 1 year champs. Now we have had a repeat cycle, but...UNLESS of course...the Celtics win. Then what? Kobe wasn't good enough to lead his team back-to-back without Shaq? Watch...the crying game 2, the sequel...it could happen.

You couldn't counter anything else. I'll give you that one. I knew it was coming but any 2nd grade mathematician knows that 12 is higher than 8 :)

I know, I know. But, after the Lakers broke thru in '88 that was the standard, the Pistons reestablishing it further. So when Daddy finally broke thru to the total dismay of Media in '00 (who were poised to take off after him like the last pork chop on the plate) the hue & cry and drum beat of {repeat} was sounded. A three peat later, Media finally called off the dogs and a young Colorado lassie with a gusset chock full of cock snot closed the chapter. After years of lightning, we suffered many days of drums.

Anyway, I'm getting off the snide.

What's good for the goose is sauce for the gander. I know, I know, you're small market, your shit don't stink, your pure as the driven snow, but, you didn't answer the call to repeat. And you're going to answer for it here.

This I vow.

[TheMACHINE]

The repeat thing again. It's a cycle. Before the Showtime Lakers fulfilled the back-to-back prophecy that Riley led, the NBA had 17 straight seasons of 1 year champs. Now we have had a repeat cycle, but...UNLESS of course...the Celtics win. Then what? Kobe wasn't good enough to lead his team back-to-back without Shaq? Watch...the crying game 2, the sequel...it could happen.

You couldn't counter anything else. I'll give you that one. I knew it was coming but any 2nd grade mathematician knows that 12 is higher than 8 :)

true..still doesnt change the fact that your spurs is part of the non repeat cycle right?

[Giuseppe]

GD right, MACHINE. There is no reason in the world why Spurs Fandom can't take their medicine about the lack of repeating. It's only right.

[Man In Black]

I didn't say it did. That's Mr. Laker Jerry West never repeated. Larry Legend Bird never repeated. Both those guys' greatness cannot be questioned. Should the Spurs not repeat in the Duncan era, Tim is just like those 2 and a great many others who are all-time greats who have not. There a host of all-time greats who don't even have 1.

But you guys know 12 is higher than 8...don't you?

[TheMACHINE]

I didn't say it did. That's Mr. Laker Jerry West never repeated. Larry Legend Bird never repeated. Both those guys' greatness cannot be questioned. Should the Spurs not repeat in the Duncan era, Tim is just like those 2 and a great many others who are all-time greats who have not. There a host of all-time greats who don't even have 1.

But you guys know 12 is higher than 8...don't you?

pssh jerry west only has 1...so i question him.

[Giuseppe]

I didn't say it did. That's Mr. Laker Jerry West never repeated. Larry Legend Bird never repeated. Both those guys' greatness cannot be questioned. Should the Spurs not repeat in the Duncan era, Tim is just like those 2 and a great many others who are all-time greats who have not. There a host of all-time greats who don't even have 1.

But you guys know 12 is higher than 8...don't you?

Duncan's greatness is without doubt. He just didn't repeat. There is no shame in that, just recognition.

[Killakobe81]

A little change it looks like this:
His career needs more validation like Richard Jefferson needs more shampoo. TWELVE times he has been on the All-NBA team. TWELVE times he has been on the All-Defensive team. He has been MVP of the All-Star Game, 3 times in the Finals and 2 times in the league.

His greatness cannot be questioned any more successfully than his off-glass jumper still can be defended. DUNCAN has won four championships and, just for emphasis, done so with two distinctively different teams.

I'm just saying. Oh and Tim, for the finals...UNDEFEATED!

Sad ,just sad ... i thought Laker fans were the insecure crew on here?

[duncan228]

Kobe measures well against test of time (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-kobelakers061710)
By Adrian Wojnarowski

Maybe five titles, six – maybe a seventh – will never matter. Maybe they’ll never see Kobe Bryant as the greatest Los Angeles Laker. The smile, the wink, the charm of Magic Johnson so hard to overtake. Magic was Magic, and Kobe’s never bothered to try and be him.

They come to Bryant wanting him to play along, tell tales about his connection to the Big ’80s, about how he sees himself in the context of Magic and Bird, West and Russell. They want something sentimental out of a cold-blooded basketball assassin. Trouble is, Kobe isn’t sentimental. He’s surgical.

“It’s got nothing to do with me,” Bryant insisted.

For some, this is a complete affront. Somehow, he’s disrespecting the history of this rivalry, the forbearers of modern NBA popularity. Still, Bryant doesn’t blink. Maybe you don’t love this about him, but you have to admire it: He won’t be a phony. He won’t play make-believe the way so many peers would ingratiate themselves. He won’t smile and nod and go on and on about a contextual connection to history.

Deep down, Bryant does care. He’s a student of the sport’s history. He knows these Lakers listen to his every word and knows they can barely handle the burden of this series – never mind its weighty history. Still, Bryant has never wanted to be Magic Johnson. He’s never tried. He couldn’t be, and he always knew that about himself.

This is a sport where everyone wants to be loved and popular and be the brightest light when they walk into the room. Kobe has never tried to win popularity contests, just championships. Just respect. Perhaps Magic will always be considered the greatest Laker. Maybe the romance of the ’80s, the greatness of basketball’s most magnificent point guard, can never be matched in these far more cynical, more knowing times. And perhaps Michael Jordan will stay the greatest player of all.

For Bryant, there’s this: Whatever you want to believe, no one’s ever been more relentless. No one. He came out of high school, out of Shaq’s shadow, and kept coming and coming and coming. LeBron tried to overtake him. Dwyane Wade, too. He wears everyone down. That’s his greatest gift. He does it to opponents and teammates, too. You’ll never outlast Kobe Bryant.

Here’s the thing, though: With a victory over the Celtics, Bryant makes his case as the greatest Laker ever. Winning multiple titles is more difficult in this era because the salary cap makes it so much harder to keep great teams together. Magic and Michael will always hold those MVP trophies over Bryant, but those were as much a base of timing as talent. When it comes to the title of greatest Laker, everyone should understand winning championships is tougher now.

You have to love that Bryant refuses to campaign for the title. He won’t play the easy game of pushing himself into the context of all that history, all the nostalgia. The world is watching him now, and he won’t put on a fake smile and play along with all the storylines that are irrelevant to him. He still isn’t trying to win the popularity contest. Just another title.

This isn’t sentimental to Kobe Bryant, just surgical. That’s him, and that never changes. Not for Magic Johnson. Not for the Celtics. Not for anything. To the end, Kobe is Kobe.

[Giuseppe]

Jordan got his 6th and last ring at 35.

Kobe has his 4th ring at 32, maybe even a 5th at 32 if God is willing and the creek don't rise.

Bryant's Lakers are the cream of the NBA crop, excluding the Celtics/Boston & San Antonio at loss tonite.

ED be damned, my stalk is attaining tumescence. Stand by for lift-off, I am at max q.

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe has been amazing in this years playoffs. I don't remember being this on fire in the playoffs. He is nailing everything it seems.

[silverblk mystix]

Kobe is a rapist.

[Giuseppe]

Who didn't get caught.

tee, hee!!!!!!!!!!

[mavsfan1000]

Kobe is a rapist.
Yeah he rapes every team he plays against. :lol

[duncan228]

Kobe’s curse: Forever stuck in Jordan’s shadow (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-jimlitke-061710)
By Jim Litke

This is the curse of being Kobe Bryant: Win or lose another championship, he will never escape Michael Jordan’s shadow. Neither will anyone else.

It’s worth remembering that when these playoffs began, some very smart people wondered out loud whether Bryant could climb out of Kevin Durant’s.

The 31-year-old Bryant was coming off a string of nagging injuries and poor shooting performances at the end of the regular season. The 21-year-old Durant was the youngest scoring champion in league history and the game’s fastest-rising star. Bryant quickly quieted that talk by putting Durant and the Thunder in his rearview mirror, then the Jazz and Suns. By the time the finals rolled around, he was once again being compared to opponents he can’t ever beat.

We’re not talking about the Celtics, but the notion that Bryant’s body of work is somehow still incomplete, that he must keep winning titles to secure his spot among the handful of greatest players ever. Please. It’s way past time to give the man his due.

Bryant won his first three NBA championships as Shaquille O’Neal’s sidekick, or at least that’s the way the story was framed. A fourth title last year with a supporting cast that included exactly one reliable sidekick, Pau Gasol, should have removed any doubts.

But Bryant could win a fifth title and still not be considered the greatest Laker ever as Magic Johnson finished his stay in LA with the same number. Bryant could win a sixth title, as many as Jordan won, and still suffer in comparison. Bryant will walk away from the game in a few years with numbers that make his argument persuasively, but he’ll never gain the top spot.

Jordan put that out of reach by taking his Bulls to their first NBA championship in 1991 and never losing another playoff series. Of course, that assumes you don’t count the beating Shaq and the Orlando Magic doled out in 1995 Eastern Conference semis, when Jordan was still getting his legs back after spending most of the season trying to play baseball.

Either way, it left the perception that when push came to shove, Jordan was unbeatable. What Bryant’s detractors have missed over the last decade is that he’s become the next best thing; namely, the guy you have to beat.

The list of players who have done just that includes a few of the big names of Bryant’s generation—Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett, Manu Ginobili, Chauncey Billups and plenty of lesser ones. Bryant has won the lion’s share of those collisions and piled up just about every other significant accomplishment along the way—MVP awards in the finals, regular season and All-Star Game; scoring titles and a string of all-NBA and all-defensive team selections.

He just didn’t win them all.

To some people, falling just short of that impossible standard seems like a fitting punishment. Bryant came into the NBA as a prodigy, polite and saying all the right things. But he so wanted to be like Mike that eventually the selfishness that is in the DNA of every great player began defining his behavior away from the court even more.

He undermined coach Phil Jackson the first time they were together and nudged Shaq into exile with an eye on taking over a team so lacking in options that he could call his own number every trip up the floor. And then, when Bryant figured out he could wind up wasting his absolute prime on a team so bad that even his best wasn’t good enough to put it over the top, he threatened to walk out of Los Angeles, too.

All of those things made Bryant tough to root for, and an accusation of rape a few years ago made him more guarded than ever. But he’s come back stronger than ever season after season, leaving a succession of would-be next Jordans in his wake.

He’ll never be as lovable as Magic, though he likely will be every bit as accomplished when he steps away. He won’t be as feared as Jordan was either, but he’s the closest thing most of us will ever see to either. As legacies go, it doesn’t get much better than that.

[hitmanyr2k]

The headline of this piece in the newspaper is 'Bryant's Legacy Safe'.

Kobe's greatness beyond question (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/kobe-253811-bryant-nba.html)
By Jeff Miller
The Orange County register

Think of it this way: If basketball’s all-time pickup game was staged and let’s say Jordan and Magic were named captains, do you actually think both of them would make four selections before picking Bryant? Please.

Winning Game 7 won’t make Bryant’s career. It’s already made. This victory will only make a great career greater.

Magic would pick Kobe but Jordan wouldn't. Jordan is the kind of guy that would want to beat Kobe rather than have him on his team.

[mingus]

the thing that irrefutably stands out on Kobe's resume is his mere 1 Final's MVP. once he wins 3, then bring him into the conversation. Duncan has three, Shaq has three. Jordan six. it's the most important accolade of them all in terms of arguing who's better than who.

[Man In Black]

Sad ,just sad ... i thought Laker fans were the insecure crew on here?
This is what you LAL fans fail at miserably. Comprehension. 12 is greater than 8, is it not? I'm just pointing out that for all the 4-letter spouts off about Boy Bean, there's always been someone achieving more, doing more, and doing it longer.
Tonight could make your year, but it my turn on you...just be prepped if it does.

[ajh18]

But he so wanted to be like Mike that eventually the selfishness that is in the DNA of every great player began defining his behavior away from the court even more.

This is one of the opinions I hate most in the NBA, and it's come in a large part from the Jordans and Kobes of the world. You do NOT have to be selfish to be an all-time great. Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, and others have proven it. Competitive drive and will to win do SOMETIMES equate to selfishness, but don't require it.

[TampaDude]

Duncan's greatness is without doubt. He just didn't repeat. There is no shame in that, just recognition.

Yup...it is what it is. :toast