Trevor Ariza

[spursfan1000]

I wonder what he's thinking right now lol :lol

[Giuseppe]

Regretting the day Artest ever saw Bryant in his birthday suit.

[cobbler]

changing his name to wally pipp

[Ghazi]

Pierce wouldve bukkaked Ariza, IMO.

Ariza probably doesnt care, nor should he.

[cobbler]

Pierce wouldve bukkaked Ariza, IMO.

Ariza probably doesnt care, nor should he.

Ron, after all the ups and downs... proved to be a great pick up due to his D over the entire playoffs. He had a few stinkers but overall the Lakers got just what they brought him in for... and a little extra last night!

[TheMACHINE]

probably woulda won it all with Ariza too.

[The Franchise]

probably woulda won it all with Ariza too.

True. I don't think it would have went seven games with Ariza.

[Ashy Larry]

True. I don't think it would have went seven games with Ariza.

i agree with that ...during last year's run T.A. was knocking those threes down. He damn sure wouldn't have had entertaining interviews like ron ron though.

[HarlemHeat37]

2009 Ariza was >>> 2010 Artest..Artest came through when it mattered, so you can call it a success for LA, but they win easier if Ariza was on the team IMO..it's irrelevant, since they won the title either way, but just saying..

As for everybody talking about needing Artest to go at Pierce..Carmelo Anthony shot 40% vs. LA in their series last year, and he's much better than 2010 Pierce, with the same size, but more explosiveness..

Ariza got his $ and he already has a ring, I don't think he's losing too much sleep:lol..

[Kai]

He doesn't care. This was a legitimate, if not probable possibility, and he knew that when he signed with Houston. Would've really sucked if he didn't win a ring the year before though.

[Nahtanoj]

True. I don't think it would have went seven games with Ariza.

Hard to tell. Ariza fit better in the triangle last postseason for damn sure.. though this is only Artest's first year. Ultimately, defense won Game 7 and you can't ignore Ron's impact in that department.

[Jacob1983]

Ariza probably doesn't give a shit. At the end of the day, he still has a ring.

[cobbler]

Defense won this years title and the 2010 Lakers are a much tougher team. To say that Rons impact against Pierce wasn't a major upgrade is just absurd.

[Giuseppe]

And you know what else, Cobby, Phil didn't fall into the trap of directing Artest to put his hands on Pierce like Artest had done in the other series. No, it was brilliant strategy by Phil, because he knew they'd never let Artest get away with such against the Celtics. It would have immediately set a precedent with the officiating and we'd a been adjusting from the start. So, Phil called him off a little, had him move his feet which is the proper way and got the same result. A "flash of genius."

[Donkeybong]

im just afraid the lack of athleticism will hurt us in the next couple of years due to young bucks like portland and thunder on the rise

[JamStone]

2009 Ariza was >>> 2010 Artest..Artest came through when it mattered, so you can call it a success for LA, but they win easier if Ariza was on the team IMO..it's irrelevant, since they won the title either way, but just saying..

As for everybody talking about needing Artest to go at Pierce..Carmelo Anthony shot 40% vs. LA in their series last year, and he's much better than 2010 Pierce, with the same size, but more explosiveness..

Ariza got his $ and he already has a ring, I don't think he's losing too much sleep:lol..

Melo shot 40% but also scored 28 points a game. He also went to the line over 12 times a game.

Pierce shot a better percentage but only averaged 18 points a game in the Finals. He went to the free throw line a little more than 5 times a game.

Holding a great scorer to 40% shooting is impressive, but if he's still scoring 28 points a game like Melo did on Ariza, exactly how impressive?

Ron Artest's defense on Pierce showed value in a couple different areas. 1) He forced Pierce to give up the basketball. Early on in the series, Pierce would try to force up shots against Ron. That happened less and less as the series went on. Limiting his shot attempts and forcing him to give up the ball when Pierce is the main scorer on the team is just as good as forcing misses. 2) Ron Artest defended Pierce without fouling him too much, at least costly fouls that sent Pierce to the line. I'm guessing people will attribute that to referee conspiracy theory, but Pierce makes a living at the free throw line and Artest limited his trips there.

Ariza would get shitted on by Pierce because Pierce would abuse that size/strength mismatch on Ariza and keep running right through him towards the basket instead of settling for that pull-up jumper Melo would take. If Melo got 12 free throws a game on Ariza, I would bet Pierce would get at least that many on him, probably more. I'm not quite sure why people think Ariza would have done just as good a job on Pierce as Artest did.

[Goran Dragic]

Anyone who watched that Denver series knows Melo missed a bunch of easy shots, Ariza didn't play great defense, if Melo was on he woulda averaged 35 PPG.

[duhoh]

ron was incredibly important. i don't think ariza has the IQ to grab an offensive board to close out on PHO. he would've watched where the ball went, then tried something. ron's D on pierce was solid in game 1 and 2. don't spout nonsense with trevor. he did his thing during his time. don't take away from what artest contributed to on the defensive end.

[HarlemHeat37]

Melo shot 40% but also scored 28 points a game. He also went to the line over 12 times a game.

Pierce shot a better percentage but only averaged 18 points a game in the Finals. He went to the free throw line a little more than 5 times a game.

Holding a great scorer to 40% shooting is impressive, but if he's still scoring 28 points a game like Melo did on Ariza, exactly how impressive?

It's impressive because of Anthony's usage %..it was well over 30 for the series, even surpassing 40 in one game, which is a historically high number for an individual in a playoff game..

Pierce's usage % for this series was around 22-23, the highest he reached was 26..he had significantly less touches than Anthony for the series..if you gave him the same amount of touches, he would have scored a similar number..not as much, but that's because Anthony is much better than Pierce at this point..

You're also ignoring that Anthony draws a higher amount of fouls than Pierce does, which is obviously relevant..


Ron Artest's defense on Pierce showed value in a couple different areas. 1) He forced Pierce to give up the basketball. Early on in the series, Pierce would try to force up shots against Ron. That happened less and less as the series went on. Limiting his shot attempts and forcing him to give up the ball when Pierce is the main scorer on the team is just as good as forcing misses. 2) Ron Artest defended Pierce without fouling him too much, at least costly fouls that sent Pierce to the line. I'm guessing people will attribute that to referee conspiracy theory, but Pierce makes a living at the free throw line and Artest limited his trips there.

Pierce averaged 14 FGA per game vs. LA..vs. the rest of the teams in the playoffs, he averaged 14 FGA per game..there was literally no difference..

Pierce drew 5.5 FTA per game vs. LA, he drew 6 vs. the other teams..not a huge difference, part of it is made up by the fact that he had slightly more usage during the LA series than he did in the other series'..


Ariza would get shitted on by Pierce because Pierce would abuse that size/strength mismatch on Ariza and keep running right through him towards the basket instead of settling for that pull-up jumper Melo would take. If Melo got 12 free throws a game on Ariza, I would bet Pierce would get at least that many on him, probably more. I'm not quite sure why people think Ariza would have done just as good a job on Pierce as Artest did.

Pierce shoots more jump shots than Anthony does, and he draws less fouls..this isn't speculation, these are facts, look up the numbers if you would like..

Paul Pierce was 10th in the NBA for Small Forwards alone when it comes to FGA at the rim..Anthony was #9 in the entire NBA in 2009..

They're actually very similar in style of play and shot locations..the primary difference being that Anthony shoots a lot more at the rim and takes slightly more shots from 18-20 feet out, while Pierce shoots more 3s/shot ratio by a decent amount..

There's nothing that says that Pierce could have had more success vs. Ariza, when the much better Anthony was so inefficient vs. the Lakers last year..

[HarlemHeat37]

Even if you believe Artest would have done better defensively than Ariza did, which is a valid opinion, the offensive differences are MASSIVE..if Artest is the better defender, which is arguable, Ariza's offense advantage makes up for it very, very easily..

Let's assume Artest is the slightly better defender, which is the most you could really say IMO..

Artest had a HORRIBLE 47.7 true shooting %, amazingly inefficient..he had a huge part in the Lakers' offense decline this season..Ariza had a GODLY 61% true shooting %, amazingly efficient..this had a big part in LA's offensive success during the playoffs last year..

Ariza's offensive rating was 114, Artest's was 105, a massive difference..Ariza even had a better defensive rating by a massive margin, 110 to 103..

Ariza had a massive advantage in Win Shares and PER..they had the same amount of steals(technically, Ariza had 1 more), Ariza grabbed more rebounds, and Ariza got to the line for easy points a lot more..

This is all despite Ariza playing 5 less minutes per game than Artest..

It really wasn't even close TBH, even with Artest's supposed defensive advantage..that's not to say Artest didn't have a good impact at times, he came up huge in game 6 and 7, but Ariza was clearly better during the playoffs, and it was by a wide margin..

[JamStone]

Fortunately, we have some other games to look at to see how a healthier Ariza would do against Paul Pierce.

Trevor Ariza played Pierce as a Los Angeles Laker three times in the regular season from 2007-08 to 2008-09. Pierce averaged 25 points on 46.7% shooting and averaged 10 free throws per contest in those three games. And, to be quite honest, it was really only the one game in 2007 that Trevor got the majority of minutes as the primary defender on Pierce. In that game, Pierce dropped 33 points on 9-for-19 shooting and went to the line 13 times. I don't remember what the deal was with Ariza in 2008-09 for most of the season, but Pierce's worse game of those three was actually with Luke Walton as the primary defender. Phil Jackson didn't even want Ariza to be the primary defender.

In those three games healthy Ariza played Pierce and the Celtics, Ariza scored a combined 10 points (3.3 ppg) on 5-for-14 shooting, 0-for-2 from three point range.

This past season, Ariza, as a Houston Rockets player, played in one game against Boston. Pierce dropped 26 points on 9-for-14 shooting and going to the free throw line 8 times, while Ariza shot 4-for-10 and scored 11 points.

Pierce shits on guys like Ariza who are slim and can't match his size and strength and are the gambling type of defender.

Ariza had an amazing run in the 2009 playoffs. His shooting was off the charts. I doubt very much he would have duplicated that against Pierce and the Celtics, in 2008 or last year or this year. His 2009 playoff run was amazing for a role player. And it got him the contract he has now with the Rockets. Ask Rockets fan what they think of him, as a defender or as an offensive player.

Artest' value showed. Ariza would have gotten absolutely messy-facialed by Pierce.

[JamStone]

It's impressive because of Anthony's usage %..it was well over 30 for the series, even surpassing 40 in one game, which is a historically high number for an individual in a playoff game..

Pierce's usage % for this series was around 22-23, the highest he reached was 26..he had significantly less touches than Anthony for the series..if you gave him the same amount of touches, he would have scored a similar number..not as much, but that's because Anthony is much better than Pierce at this point..

You're also ignoring that Anthony draws a higher amount of fouls than Pierce does, which is obviously relevant..

Carmelo averaged 6.9 free throw attempts per game in the 2009 playoffs before the Nuggets met the Lakers in the WCF. He averaged 12.5 free throw attempts per game against Ariza and the Lakers.




Pierce averaged 14 FGA per game vs. LA..vs. the rest of the teams in the playoffs, he averaged 14 FGA per game..there was literally no difference..

Pierce drew 5.5 FTA per game vs. LA, he drew 6 vs. the other teams..not a huge difference, part of it is made up by the fact that he had slightly more usage during the LA series than he did in the other series'..

Fair to a point. But to be fair, LeBron is a big reason why those free throw numbers are the way they are. Pierce admitted himself that defending LeBron took him out of the offense for the most part. Not only guarding him but LeBron having become a very good defender himself. Against the Orlando Magic, Pierce averaged over 9 free throw attempts per game. Against a defender like Ariza, Pierce would have attacked his body more and not settled for as many jumpers as he often did against Artest.




Pierce shoots more jump shots than Anthony does, and he draws less fouls..this isn't speculation, these are facts, look up the numbers if you would like..

Paul Pierce was 10th in the NBA for Small Forwards alone when it comes to FGA at the rim..Anthony was #9 in the entire NBA in 2009..

Depends who's guarding them. Pierce backs down smaller small forwards. And some of his jumpers are still a product of initially posting up and backing down defenders with fade-aways and step-backs. Carmelo was actually jumpshot happy last year against the Lakers and still managed to get to the free throw line an inordinate amount of times against Ariza.




They're actually very similar in style of play and shot locations..the primary difference being that Anthony shoots a lot more at the rim and takes slightly more shots from 18-20 feet out, while Pierce shoots more 3s/shot ratio by a decent amount..

There's nothing that says that Pierce could have had more success vs. Ariza, when the much better Anthony was so inefficient vs. the Lakers last year..

I won't really argue your point about where they take more shots overall, close to the rim or jumpers. I do think it's more important to condense the sample size and look at what they do against certain defenders. Carmelo might get to the rim more. He has more athleticism and explosiveness and he's a better offensive rebounder so it would make sense. But if you put a slender defender like Ariza on Pierce, I personally think Pierce is going to attack his body more and try to get to the free throw line. I will admit that Pierce is the type of player who's hot and cold in that regard. If you look at the last couple post seasons, his field goal attempts are all over the place. He'll take as few as 5 or 6 FGA or he might take 25+ FGA in a given game. Part of it is a product of the talent he has around him and if a guy like Ray Allen gets hot or even Rondo has it going, it will limit his touches and attempts. But, you give him a mismatch to exploit, you'll see him put up 15+ shots and you'll see him attacking the rim more.

A lot of this is conjecture of course, on both sides. Opinion v. opinion. But if you look at Pierce and what he can do in the post and with his size and strength against lighter and more slender small forwards, he's a different type of player. Against guys like LeBron James or Ron Artest, he cannot overpower them. He can't do the same type of damage he could on a guy like Ariza. That's what I see. I guess you think different based on Ariza's playoff roll in 2009.

Ariza shot 48% from three point range in the 2009 playoffs. He's a career 32% three point shooter. He wasn't even taking many three pointers until he joined the Lakers a couple years ago. So, I think it's embellishment to use that one stretch of 20 or so games where he got unbelievably hot from the field and ignore the fact that in reality he's really just an average to below average three point shooter who got hot at the right time.

[MateoNeygro]

I doubt he cares too much. It probably bothers him a little but eh he's fucking rich.

[namlook]

Defense won this years title and the 2010 Lakers are a much tougher team. To say that Rons impact against Pierce wasn't a major upgrade is just absurd.

+1000000.

The Lakers offense took a hit with Artest but their defense is much better with him on the floor. Against a great defensive team like the Celtics that can shut down any offense, the way to beat them is by defending and rebounding. The Artest acquisition is probably the main reason the Lakers won this last series. They would have struggled defending Pierce with Ariza.

[Giuseppe]

^Exactly. If we're waiting for Media to cite Artest as Cobby and Nam have done we'll grow old and die. It ain't happening. The story line did not end the way Media had written it beforehand. And they ain't rewriting it. No.

[Muser]

I'm sure Trevor is happy with his big fat paycheck from Houston.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The people who think Artest wasn't an upgrade over Ariza crack me up. IMO it's only gonna look worse, give Artest a full off season to work with Kobe and copy Kobe's shooting regimen the way Ariza did, and he'll be just as good a fit for LA's offense as Ariza was, as scary as that may sound. Kobe's career is going to be prolongued because of all the dirty work Artest does that Kobe doesn't have to do.

[djohn2oo8]

live in that dump Houston. .

Says the dirty Paki

[Giuseppe]

Aye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now tell the Cubby, true, didn't ya miss that Luva?

[sefant77]

He thinks:

"Who need rings, chucking is so much better. Fuck Martin, Brooks and Yao, i wont be scoring option Nr. 4 next season, i will keep on shooting" :D

[cobbler]

Artest >>>>> Ariza and anyone arguing otherwise is either hating or just plain stupid.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Artest >>>>> Ariza and anyone arguing otherwise is either hating or just plain stupid.


I think....

Ariza > fat Artest but
Ariza <<<< fit Artest

Maybe it's just me but he's lost a ton of weight since the start of the season.

[BUMP]

Artest >>>>> Ariza and anyone arguing otherwise is either hating or just plain stupid.

I don't even care about this argument at all but I love it when people use the "if you think otherwise you're an idiot" card as if they think that proves anything :lol

Another gem is the "/thread" comment after you say something as if you just ended the debate for the rest of eternity :rolleyes

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

When someone else says "/thread" in response to a comment that's one thing, but I agree, "/threading" your own comment as if that makes it any more credible is hilarious.

[cobbler]

Glancing over to the other thread....


There is no threat to the Lakers

/thread

/discussion

/2010-11 season

anyone who disagrees with me is such a disgrace to life that they should've never been born

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

^^:lol

[DaDakota]

You guys can have him back, we will even toss in Jeffries or Hayes, just give us Bynum.

;)

DD

[BadOdor]

You guys can have him back, we will even toss in Jeffries or Hayes, just give us Bynum.

;)

DD

What the hell for? so he and Yao can play video games at the hospital together?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

we will even toss in Jeffries or Hayes


Damn, what a deal, two guys who can't make a shot longer than 5 feet.