$1300 to replace privacy fence on one side.

[JoeChalupa]

A week or so ago the neighbor lady told me she was getting an estimate to replace the privacy fence between our yards. I knew what she was hinting at so I asked if she wanted to split the costs and she jumped on it.
Well, last week while I was away my other neighbor spoke to my wife and told her his estimate is $1300. It in only on the right side of the house going back to end of the yard.
It is only 8 sections long and since the gate is only on our side she told him we would take care of that part ourselves. The neighbor has chain link fence from the privacy fence to her house.
I thought that was way too much. So I've got a few others coming out to give me quotes.
The neighbor is the same dude who wanted to trim our trees for $350 bucks when I got some dudes to do it for $150.

Am I wrong? I've googled it and may just to the job myself. Mouse was going to help but he has been a no show for quite some time now.

[tlongII]

No you're not wrong. $1300 seems high to me.

[bus driver]

it believe they told me 1000 to do my whole yard and that was with metal post. i dont remember the company any more cause it was a couple of years ago but damn that seems high for one side. it better last 100 years.

every time i ask my neighbor if he is ready to do it he says he doesnt have the money so i have just been waiting.

[bigzak25]

A week or so ago the neighbor lady told me she was getting an estimate to replace the privacy fence between our yards. I knew what she was hinting at so I asked if she wanted to split the costs and she jumped on it.
Well, last week while I was away my other neighbor spoke to my wife and told her his estimate is $1300. It in only on the right side of the house going back to end of the yard.
It is only 8 sections long and since the gate is only on our side she told him we would take care of that part ourselves. The neighbor has chain link fence from the privacy fence to her house.
I thought that was way too much. So I've got a few others coming out to give me quotes.
The neighbor is the same dude who wanted to trim our trees for $350 bucks when I got some dudes to do it for $150.

Am I wrong? I've googled it and may just to the job myself. Mouse was going to help but he has been a no show for quite some time now.


That does seem awfully steep. Are they quoting replacing the posts and all the framework or just the boards?

Let me know if you want to try to do it yourself and I'll lend a hand.

[Drachen]

I have been told by a friend in the business that for complete replacement about $15 a foot is average.

[tlongII]

San Antonio sounds like a place where your neighbors try to rip you off! :lol

[DesignatedT]

1300 is way too high. Should be more like $600-700 using good wood.

[PM5K]

I have been told by a friend in the business that for complete replacement about $15 a foot is average.

If that's correct this estimate not only seems high, but maybe twice what it should be?

[JoeChalupa]

Thanks guys, and Bigzak, I may take you up on that offer.

[Kori Ellis]

When we were going to build a privacy fence around the pool, we got a low quote of $1500 for 215 feet (high quote was $3500). We ended up not putting up the fence, but the prices varied a lot.

[Leetonidas]

WTF? Just do it yourself Joe, you're Mexican. And get Mouse to help you. And if you don't wanna go that route, go find some illegals to do it. :tu

1300 is fucking bullshit.

[TDMVPDPOY]

make u sure u get it done properly u dont wanna lose land to ur neighbor, cause his tryin to pull a shifte

[JoeChalupa]

Lowe's has the 8 ft sections for $44. Yeah, I am going to do it myself.

[JoeChalupa]

make u sure u get it done properly u dont wanna lose land to ur neighbor, cause his tryin to pull a shifte

Yeah, she cussed me out when we first moved in years ago because I mowed my lawn at 8:30 in the morning and it pissed her off. This was the first time she has spoken to us since then.
Now I have to check to see what kind of permits I need to do the job myself.

[4>0rings]

Yeah, she cussed me out when we first moved in years ago because I mowed my lawn at 8:30 in the morning and it pissed her off. This was the first time she has spoken to us since then.
Now I have to check to see what kind of permits I need to do the job myself.FUCK THAT! Just say no, let them pay for it all and when they do, call the city and make ure they got the permits for it. :)

When I first moved in I wanted to put a privacy fence up at a cost of $600-700. I told my neighbor that if I got it done that I was going to pull up the current metal posts to put in the new wood ones. He sad he'd rather keep them. Well fuck that, I'am not paying for the fence and losing some of my yard so I never did it. He later came to me and asked if I was still going to do it. I just told him no, it was put on the back burner.

Now he paid for it all but took the god damn posts out... you know the same ones he wanted. :rolleyes

Oh well, he payed for it and I didn't lose any yard. I finished a small 8' section that was bordering another neighbors house. It's real easy and you can do it yourself. Buy the lumber you want, don't buy the made sections.

[JoeChalupa]

FUCK THAT! Just say no, let them pay for it all and when they do, call the city and make ure they got the permits for it. :)

When I first moved in I wanted to put a privacy fence up at a cost of $600-700. I told my neighbor that if I got it done that I was going to pull up the current metal posts to put in the new wood ones. He sad he'd rather keep them. Well fuck that, I'am not paying for the fence and losing some of my yard so I never did it. He later came to me and asked if I was still going to do it. I just told him no, it was put on the back burner.

Now he paid for it all but took the god damn posts out... you know the same ones he wanted. :rolleyes

Oh well, he payed for it and I didn't lose any yard. I finished a small 8' section that was bordering another neighbors house. It's real easy and you can do it yourself. Buy the lumber you want, don't buy the made sections.

Yeah, I did the back part by myself but only had to replace the boards. This time the posts need to be dug out and replaced as they are leaning way too far to fix. But I also found out awhile back that they used about a ton of cement on each post so I need to dig it all out. and out yard is not perfectly flat so I will need to adjust the heights of the boards as well.

[PM5K]

What part of town do you live on?

And fuck mowing the grass at 8:30 am, were you still drunk from the night before?

[PM5K]

When we were going to build a privacy fence around the pool, we got a low quote of $1500 for 215 feet (high quote was $3500). We ended up not putting up the fence, but the prices varied a lot.

That's funny because the high quote was around 15.00 per foot, the low was about half. I wonder if you would have wound up with a cardboard fence for that price? Maybe they would have gotten crayons and drawn nice details on the top for a few bucks more?

[JoeChalupa]

What part of town do you live on?

And fuck mowing the grass at 8:30 am, were you still drunk from the night before?

I live in Converse and I wanted to mow the lawn before it got real hot. My neighbor on the other side always mows his real early. Doesn't bother me.

[JoeChalupa]

I've got a guy coming over tomorrow after work to give me a quote.

[tlongII]

64 ft X $15/ft = $960

The quote isn't terribly high, but it's still high. Seems like you should be able to get it done for around $1K.

[JoeChalupa]

64 ft X $15/ft = $960

The quote isn't terribly high, but it's still high. Seems like you should be able to get it done for around $1K.

Yeah, too high for me. 8 ft sections are $44 at Lowe's. I need 7 so that is $308.00 plus the posts so I can do it for much less myself. Of course I always knew that but I figure if I can get a decent quote for a decent job then I am willing to pay, yeah that is right. But if I can save and still do a decent job then that makes it much better and I will get the satisfaction of doing it myself.
I mean, I do know how to google and follow directions.

[Das Texan]

i need to do fence work on mine also.


only thing is that the fences are all on all the respective neighbor's sides.

2 sides are bad, one is really bad.


the only one i actually talk to is in decent shape. outstanding.

[bigzak25]

Thanks guys, and Bigzak, I may take you up on that offer.


Lowe's has the 8 ft sections for $44. Yeah, I am going to do it myself.


Cool. Just let me know a week or two in advance so I can plan. I need the exercise and I'll enjoy the sense of accomplishment...

I've only replaced boards before, which is extremely easy, and not done the posts, but we just gotta dig and get the concrete. Mouse's knowledge would really help, but you know how it goes when Mouse gets involved in things...

I don't think it will be too hard really. All the stuff is done, we just gotta replace and duplicate what has been done with new materials. It would be a different story if we were starting from scratch.

Anyhow, just PM me. I don't have my new cell# yet. I can PM you my home phone though. :tu

[PM5K]

I'll help you pick up BigZak when he passes out from the heat.

[bigzak25]

Dude, as long as I have some good music to work by, I'm golden.

Rm0Of5d7M4g

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

64 ft X $15/ft = $960

The quote isn't terribly high, but it's still high.

It's not really high if you figure tear down and haul away are both included.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I did 8 sections of cedar fence a couple years ago. the wood alone was in the neighborhood of $430. When I added concrete and stainless steel deck screws, my supplies were just under $500. Figure fair labor prices and workmanship from there.

Please don't pay someone who uses illegal help.

Yeah, too high for me. 8 ft sections are $44 at Lowe's. I need 7 so that is $308.00 plus the posts so I can do it for much less myself. Of course I always knew that but I figure if I can get a decent quote for a decent job then I am willing to pay, yeah that is right. But if I can save and still do a decent job then that makes it much better and I will get the satisfaction of doing it myself.
I mean, I do know how to google and follow directions.
That may be part of the labor cost. The low end might be someone buying those cheap ass prebuilt sections and installing it while the high end might be like I built mine. Board by board.

Consider this. Do you really want a privacy fence? now I haven't a clue what your regulations are, but some places require it be built on one persons side or the other with responsibilities on both sides.

Suggestion you may like...

have her pay for the fence, build it in her side, and you build it. Or a variation, but if you can build it, let that be your part.

[Wild Cobra]

Cool. Just let me know a week or two in advance so I can plan. I need the exercise and I'll enjoy the sense of accomplishment...

I've only replaced boards before, which is extremely easy, and not done the posts, but we just gotta dig and get the concrete. Mouse's knowledge would really help, but you know how it goes when Mouse gets involved in things...

I don't think it will be too hard really. All the stuff is done, we just gotta replace and duplicate what has been done with new materials. It would be a different story if we were starting from scratch.

Anyhow, just PM me. I don't have my new cell# yet. I can PM you my home phone though. :tu
Post hole diggers are probably $30 to $40. I found mine on a closeout sale for $10.97. I forget the price range, but I bought premixed cement... sand and gravel already in it. Add water, mix, and poor. I used a 33 gal plastic garbage can to do this. One to 2 bags per hole. If you get a clean hole, one bag. I had big rocks to contend with, so some holes were a royal pain and too 2 bags. by the time I made the holes, they was larger than the others.

Make sure you know where the underground stuff is before you dig, and get the permits if needed.

[Blake]

A week or so ago the neighbor lady told me she was getting an estimate to replace the privacy fence between our yards. I knew what she was hinting at so I asked if she wanted to split the costs and she jumped on it.
Well, last week while I was away my other neighbor spoke to my wife and told her his estimate is $1300. It in only on the right side of the house going back to end of the yard.
It is only 8 sections long and since the gate is only on our side she told him we would take care of that part ourselves. The neighbor has chain link fence from the privacy fence to her house.
I thought that was way too much. So I've got a few others coming out to give me quotes.
The neighbor is the same dude who wanted to trim our trees for $350 bucks when I got some dudes to do it for $150.

Am I wrong? I've googled it and may just to the job myself. Mouse was going to help but he has been a no show for quite some time now.

have you thought about getting thick/tall vegetation instead?

[Wild Cobra]

have you thought about getting thick/tall vegetation instead?
That gets more expensive unless you want to wait the years it takes to grow.

I checked that out when I built my fence.

[Drachen]

Also call ahead to the brush drop off site to make sure that a load of that magnitude won't cost you anything. Also consider that you may have to remove the nails, I don't know.

[Taco]

you are looking about $15.00 per lf to install and about $4.50 to remove old so about $19-$20 to demo and install new (book price)

[Drachen]

you are looking about $15.00 per lf to install and about $4.50 to remove old so about $19-$20 to demo and install new (book price)

That is far too much!

[Taco]

That is far too much!

like i said book price :wakeup

[JoeChalupa]

you are looking about $15.00 per lf to install and about $4.50 to remove old so about $19-$20 to demo and install new (book price)

Whoah!! Well, I'll tell them I'll remove to lower the costs but I'm pretty sure I'm going to do this myself and some help. The wife is all gung-ho too.

[Drachen]

Whoah!! Well, I'll tell them I'll remove to lower the costs but I'm pretty sure I'm going to do this myself and some help. The wife is all gung-ho too.

I remember one year my dad and I asked our neighbors (I called them the mormons because they were) if they wanted to tear down our fence and put up a new one (the one between our back yards), they said "sure" and we split the costs, etc. They were real cool people, mormons Well on the day that we were going to do it all of a sudden 20 guys and about 10 women showed up. It was great! we had lemonade, snacks, and lunch being served to us, and it took us about an hour to demo and pack up the old fence, and another half hour to pour the concrete and set up the posts. The next day they all came back and it took less than 2 hours to get the 2x4's and boards up and this was without a nail gun. LOL.

I guess the moral of the story is that you should move to Salt Lake City, UT.

[mrsmaalox]

asking mouse for help might not be a good idea, i heard he was having trouble getting wood up

:lol

[mrsmaalox]

But wait second Joe, this wasn't even your idea! Why break your back for that neighbor? You offered to pay half. You already know you are going to shell out at least $500 (including your labor), so tell the lady to get some estimates but that you can only afford to contribute $500. If she's willling to pay the other $800 fine; if not she'll come up with a cheaper solution I'm sure. Then you just write the check you would have written anyway and sit back and admire the new fence! :toast

[Taco]

I guess the moral of the story is that you should move to Salt Lake City, UT.

:lol

[manufan10]

But wait second Joe, this wasn't even your idea! Why break your back for that neighbor? You offered to pay half. You already know you are going to shell out at least $500 (including your labor), so tell the lady to get some estimates but that you can only afford to contribute $500. If she's willling to pay the other $800 fine; if not she'll come up with a cheaper solution I'm sure. Then you just write the check you would have written anyway and sit back and admire the new fence! :toast

I'd say to do this, unless you really want to do the work. If you want to do the work then more power to you.

[Drachen]

I'd say to do this, unless you really want to do the work. If you want to do the work then more power to you.

.... and make her pay for the materials.

[Mitt Romney]

I remember one year my dad and I asked our neighbors (I called them the mormons because they were) if they wanted to tear down our fence and put up a new one (the one between our back yards), they said "sure" and we split the costs, etc. They were real cool people, mormons Well on the day that we were going to do it all of a sudden 20 guys and about 10 women showed up. It was great! we had lemonade, snacks, and lunch being served to us, and it took us about an hour to demo and pack up the old fence, and another half hour to pour the concrete and set up the posts. The next day they all came back and it took less than 2 hours to get the 2x4's and boards up and this was without a nail gun. LOL.

I guess the moral of the story is that you should move to Salt Lake City, UT.

:tu

[Wild Cobra]

That is far too much!
WTF...

People don't work for peanuts in crafts that are skilled labor. I'd say do it yourself if you aren't willing to pay a proper price, or are you going to employ illegal help?

[Drachen]

WTF...

People don't work for peanuts in crafts that are skilled labor. I'd say do it yourself if you aren't willing to pay a proper price, or are you going to employ illegal help?

Um, my buddy who told me that he charges in general $15 a foot is all white. Crazy southern accent and everything. Additionally, my nieces father owns a decking and fencing company, he also doesn't charge as much and his fencers are both white. 20/ft is far too much for a fence WC.

[Wild Cobra]

Um, my buddy who told me that he charges in general $15 a foot is all white. Crazy southern accent and everything. Additionally, my nieces father owns a decking and fencing company, he also doesn't charge as much and his fencers are both white. 20/ft is far too much for a fence WC.
It depends on the grounds you work on and in my experience, prices are negotiable. You cannot have one set price. You may have very soft soil requiring deeper holes and longer posts. You might have really hard soil that makes the post hole digging far longer. If the terrain if uneven, more labor is involved. Then are you paying for premade sections to be set, or individual boards.

I think what you have is a cost that usually amounts to $15 a foot. If you take a minimum charge because of trucking the equipment out and other purposes, then add either time or by the foot, the rate changes. You could have $250 for the first 8 feet and $50 for each additional section. At a rate like this, the first section would be $31.25 a foot. Five sections would be $11.25 a foot, etc.

Now I agree that $15 a foot may be a high price for premade fencing. There is also quality of build. then on top of that, quality and price are not always linked, but as a general rule are. If I were making a fence, board by board, I wouldn't charge under $15 per foot. I've done it, and it takes time to do it right. I wouldn't do the work with prefab sections either. I think it's so tacky.

You get what you pay for. Pay for shit, you get shit generally. Myself, I didn't use a single nail. I used Stainless Steel deck screws, adding cost and labor.

have you seen how shitty those prefab 8 foot sections are made? If you believe in buying that quality and pay for the cheaper labor of putting that shit in then fine.

[JoeChalupa]

It depends on the grounds you work on and in my experience, prices are negotiable. You cannot have one set price. You may have very soft soil requiring deeper holes and longer posts. You might have really hard soil that makes the post hole digging far longer. If the terrain if uneven, more labor is involved. Then are you paying for premade sections to be set, or individual boards.

I think what you have is a cost that usually amounts to $15 a foot. If you take a minimum charge because of trucking the equipment out and other purposes, then add either time or by the foot, the rate changes. You could have $250 for the first 8 feet and $50 for each additional section. At a rate like this, the first section would be $31.25 a foot. Five sections would be $11.25 a foot, etc.

Now I agree that $15 a foot may be a high price for premade fencing. There is also quality of build. then on top of that, quality and price are not always linked, but as a general rule are. If I were making a fence, board by board, I wouldn't charge under $15 per foot. I've done it, and it takes time to do it right. I wouldn't do the work with prefab sections either. I think it's so tacky.

You get what you pay for. Pay for shit, you get shit generally. Myself, I didn't use a single nail. I used Stainless Steel deck screws, adding cost and labor.

have you seen how shitty those prefab 8 foot sections are made? If you believe in buying that quality and pay for the cheaper labor of putting that shit in then fine.

Yeah, I always use deck screws, no nails. Not going with the prefab 8 ft sections, although I don't quite get the "tacky" part of it. A neighbor up the street did his that way but he has a flat yard and he stained it and it looks quite nice.
Using deck screws makes it easier IMO and nor sure why it would add labor

Good comments everyone.

Can I do this?

[Drachen]

It depends on the grounds you work on and in my experience, prices are negotiable. You cannot have one set price. You may have very soft soil requiring deeper holes and longer posts. You might have really hard soil that makes the post hole digging far longer. If the terrain if uneven, more labor is involved. Then are you paying for premade sections to be set, or individual boards.

I think what you have is a cost that usually amounts to $15 a foot. If you take a minimum charge because of trucking the equipment out and other purposes, then add either time or by the foot, the rate changes. You could have $250 for the first 8 feet and $50 for each additional section. At a rate like this, the first section would be $31.25 a foot. Five sections would be $11.25 a foot, etc.

Now I agree that $15 a foot may be a high price for premade fencing. There is also quality of build. then on top of that, quality and price are not always linked, but as a general rule are. If I were making a fence, board by board, I wouldn't charge under $15 per foot. I've done it, and it takes time to do it right. I wouldn't do the work with prefab sections either. I think it's so tacky.

You get what you pay for. Pay for shit, you get shit generally. Myself, I didn't use a single nail. I used Stainless Steel deck screws, adding cost and labor.

have you seen how shitty those prefab 8 foot sections are made? If you believe in buying that quality and pay for the cheaper labor of putting that shit in then fine.

No these are fence builders. 15/ft covers demo, truck off, new posts, 2x4's and dog ears, materials. They are not with deck screws, but with galvanized ringed nails. No prefabs. I had a 50 foot section that I needed done, and it would have been 750, but of course I got it at cost since I knew some people. Ended up costing me just over 325.

[Drachen]

Yeah, I always use deck screws, no nails. Not going with the prefab 8 ft sections, although I don't quite get the "tacky" part of it. A neighbor up the street did his that way but he has a flat yard and he stained it and it looks quite nice.
Using deck screws makes it easier IMO and nor sure why it would add labor

Good comments everyone.

Can I do this?


Deck screws = screwing time, nails equals nail gun. even with both being automated, you can get probably 3 or four nails in for every screw you put in.

[Wild Cobra]

Using deck screws makes it easier IMO and nor sure why it would add labor

Nail guns are much faster than drills with an attachment.

I used the Spax of this design:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31J73GZN43L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[JoeChalupa]

Deck screws = screwing time, nails equals nail gun. even with both being automated, you can get probably 3 or four nails in for every screw you put in.

Duh, I don't have a nail gun though.

[JoeChalupa]

Nail guns are much faster than drills with an attachment.

I used the Spax of this design:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31J73GZN43L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I concur.

[clambake]

this sad world needs walls torn down, joe........not built up!

[JoeChalupa]

this sad world needs walls torn down, joe........not built up!

If the feds won't do it....I will!!!

[clambake]

If the feds won't do it....I will!!!

tree killer!

[Wild Cobra]

No these are fence builders. 15/ft covers demo, truck off, new posts, 2x4's and dog ears, materials. They are not with deck screws, but with galvanized ringed nails. No prefabs. I had a 50 foot section that I needed done, and it would have been 750, but of course I got it at cost since I knew some people. Ended up costing me just over 325.
Must be nice to live with subsidies. The material alone was a few hundred bux.

50 ft would have required six 4x4's if they used 10 ft 2 x 4's. It takes 17 dog ears per 8 ft, so that's about 106 of them. That's at least $200 in material.

Must be nice to have friends that take a business loss.

[Drachen]

Must be nice to live with subsidies. The material alone was a few hundred bux.

50 ft would have required six 4x4's if they used 10 ft 2 x 4's. It takes 17 dog ears per 8 ft, so that's about 106 of them. That's at least $200 in material.

Must be nice to have friends that take a business loss.

Remember the contractor discount on all materials too, but you are about right, it was just under 200 for the materials. This leaves about 130 to pay the 2 guys out of, 6 hours of work, about 11 an hour.

It's good to have friends all over the spectrum!

No business loss, however, no profit either.

Edit: ok, I will concede a small business loss on the administrative side of the house.

[Wild Cobra]

Remember the contractor discount on all materials too, but you are about right, it was just under 200 for the materials. This leaves about 130 to pay the 2 guys out of, 6 hours of work, about 11 an hour.

It's good to have friends all over the spectrum!

No business loss, however, no profit either.

Edit: ok, I will concede a small business loss on the administrative side of the house.
If they got paid $11 per hour, then the business either took a loss, or hiring people illegally under the table.

Social security match
Insurances
etc.

Not to mention fuel cost of the truck and equipment. then the 12 man-hours of work at your place isn't the end of it. What about the time it took to load the truck and drive, or did the workers do that for free.

I don't want to bitch at you, but I find this disgusting, because this is either tax evasion, or illegal help.

Either way, unless they worked for near minimum wage, there is something illegal going on here.

[Das Texan]

If they got paid $11 per hour, then the business either took a loss, or hiring people illegally under the table.

Social security match
Insurances
etc.

Not to mention fuel cost of the truck and equipment. then the 12 man-hours of work at your place isn't the end of it. What about the time it took to load the truck and drive, or did the workers do that for free.

I don't want to bitch at you, but I find this disgusting, because this is either tax evasion, or illegal help.

Either way, unless they worked for near minimum wage, there is something illegal going on here.

if they are considered independent contractors then the social security match doesnt occur, along with any other of those employment taxes.

[JoeChalupa]

If they got paid $11 per hour, then the business either took a loss, or hiring people illegally under the table.

Social security match
Insurances
etc.

Not to mention fuel cost of the truck and equipment. then the 12 man-hours of work at your place isn't the end of it. What about the time it took to load the truck and drive, or did the workers do that for free.

I don't want to bitch at you, but I find this disgusting, because this is either tax evasion, or illegal help.

Either way, unless they worked for near minimum wage, there is something illegal going on here.

I call it helping a friend out.

But I hear ya, I may also some call up some friends who know people who do this kind of work...dare I say it...under the table!!! Is that wrong?

[JoeChalupa]

if they are considered independent contractors then the social security match doesnt occur, along with any other of those employment taxes.

That is a correct statement.

[Drachen]

If they got paid $11 per hour, then the business either took a loss, or hiring people illegally under the table.

Social security match
Insurances
etc.

Not to mention fuel cost of the truck and equipment. then the 12 man-hours of work at your place isn't the end of it. What about the time it took to load the truck and drive, or did the workers do that for free.

I don't want to bitch at you, but I find this disgusting, because this is either tax evasion, or illegal help.

Either way, unless they worked for near minimum wage, there is something illegal going on here.

I was assuming $11 an hour because that was the difference between what I paid and what the materials were. Insurance would come out of the "administrative costs" which I conceded. I went with the owner and purchased the materials which is how i knew the costs, then he dropped them off at my house. They drive their own vehicles to work, just like me, my wife and everyone else that I know. They bring their own tools which they have purchased over the years out of their own pocket, and use these.

Anything else?

[Drachen]

I was assuming $11 an hour because that was the difference between what I paid and what the materials were. Insurance would come out of the "administrative costs" which I conceded. I went with the owner and purchased the materials which is how i knew the costs, then he dropped them off at my house. They drive their own vehicles to work, just like me, my wife and everyone else that I know. They bring their own tools which they have purchased over the years out of their own pocket, and use these.

Anything else?

Also, have you ever had a friend come over and help you with a project? Perhaps change out a clutch? Or I don't know, lay hardwood, or carpet?? Did you pay them for their hours that they worked? If yes, did you produce a 1099 in January so that they could claim this income on their taxes? Because if not, you are guilty of what you are accusing me and my friends of doing (wrongly I might add).

[JoeChalupa]

Also, have you ever had a friend come over and help you with a project? Perhaps change out a clutch? Or I don't know, lay hardwood, or carpet?? Did you pay them for their hours that they worked? If yes, did you produce a 1099 in January so that they could claim this income on their taxes? Because if not, you are guilty of what you are accusing me and my friends of doing (wrongly I might add).

I had no intentions of giving Bigzak a 1099....but now I'm nervous...

[Drachen]

I had no intentions of giving Bigzak a 1099....but now I'm nervous...

You better! and don't think about trying to circumvent the system by paying him in beer and steaks, there is a barter tax too!
:lol

[TheMACHINE]

im sure you can get a couple buddys to help you and you just treat them out for some dinner with beers afterwards

[EmptyMan]

I could weld you a badass steel tube hog wire fence for that much. Damn!

[Wild Cobra]

if they are considered independent contractors then the social security match doesnt occur, along with any other of those employment taxes.
But they are required to have tax ID's then and pay 14.9% of their wages in payroll taxes. That cuts the $11.00 down to $9.36 an hour, of which they still have to pay income tax on.

Know any legal contractors willing to work that cheap?

[4>0rings]

Go home illegals!!!!!

























Fuck that's too expensive, will someone build me a new fence for $500 please???? Oh here you go you nice Mexican you....

[Wild Cobra]

I call it helping a friend out.

But I hear ya, I may also some call up some friends who know people who do this kind of work...dare I say it...under the table!!! Is that wrong?
Yes and no.

I sense some illegal activity here. Just helping a friend, and having the work done by friends is one thing. When you involve a business, or contract employees, it becomes tax evasion, or a charity work.

people here complain about others not paying their fair share. What is this? Do as I say, not as I do?

[Kori Ellis]

Yes and no.

I sense some illegal activity here. Just helping a friend, and having the work done by friends is one thing. When you involve a business, or contract employees, it becomes tax evasion, or a charity work.

people here complain about others not paying their fair share. What is this? Do as I say, not as I do?

It's not tax evasion to pay independent contractors.

[Kori Ellis]

But they are required to have tax ID's then and pay 14.9% of their wages in payroll taxes. That cuts the $11.00 down to $9.36 an hour, of which they still have to pay income tax on.

Know any legal contractors willing to work that cheap?

It's not as inconceivable as you think. Lots of independent contractors do work for say $100 a day, whether they work five hours or fourteen hours. So this could have just been one of those jobs for them that their hourly rate wasn't as high as other jobs.

[bigzak25]

Joe, access to some water is all I'll request for the opportunity to help out...:tu

[Wild Cobra]

I'm curious Drachen...

Did the help speak any English?

[Wild Cobra]

It's not tax evasion to pay independent contractors.
I know that. The numbers just don't add up. He paid $325 for a job requiring $200 in supplies. That's $125 left over for 2 the two workers. He said "just over" so let's assume $65 each for 6 hrs of labor. The only contractors I have ever seen that will work at that wage are illegals.

Tell me, is the employment situation bad enough in Texas, for that to be an acceptable contractor rate when they have to pay 14.9% SS/medicare plus taxes on this income?

[Wild Cobra]

Yes, I'm being an ass about this. Like I said, it smells fishy, and I want to see employers of illegal immigrants jailed. They take away jobs that legal residents can do by undercutting a fair wage.

[JoeChalupa]

Yes, I'm being an ass about this. Like I said, it smells fishy, and I want to see employers of illegal immigrants jailed. They take away jobs that legal residents can do by undercutting a fair wage.

So then what you are saying is legal residents won't work those jobs and would rather let the illegals make the money? i don't consider 11 bucks an hours bad pay but that is just me.

And what does the language the workers speak have to do with this? Or, I get it, if they speak spanish they are illegal right?

Well, the guy that came over tonight to give me a bid spoke both english and spanish. He was an older gentleman so I spoke spanish and english to him. Should I call immigration since he spoke spanish?

[JoeChalupa]

Oh, and I should got with cedar right?

[Wild Cobra]

So then what you are saying is legal residents won't work those jobs and would rather let the illegals make the money? i don't consider 11 bucks an hours bad pay but that is just me.

For a legitimate contractor, it is bad pay. Bonds, licenses, insurance, etc. etc. I don't see someone with skill working for that little. Want a boached up job?


And what does the language the workers speak have to do with this? Or, I get it, if they speak spanish they are illegal right?

It's a pretty good indicator if you try to speak English to them, and they cannot reply, that they are illegal. I know that's not true 100% the time, but in general it is.


Well, the guy that came over tonight to give me a bid spoke both english and spanish. He was an older gentleman so I spoke spanish and english to him. Should I call immigration since he spoke spanish?

I'm not speaking of two or more languages. Just not knowing English and being a legal resident. That is rather uncommon.

[Wild Cobra]

Oh, and I should go with cedar right?
That's my choice. Not required though.

[JoeChalupa]

Well, my father still speaks poor English and has been living, legally and as a citizen, all his life. So if you met him on the street you would probably think he was illegal and you would be dead wrong.
I understand your frustration and anger has lead you to believe a certain way about some people. I've had plenty of caucasion kids knock on my door asking if they could mow my lawn. Are they guilty of taking jobs away from contractors as well? And they speak english!!!
There are plenty of legal residents who do not speak fluent english you know.

[JoeChalupa]

That's my choice. Not required though.

Yeah, I did the back part using treated wood but I know cedar will look nicer.

[LnGrrrR]

WC, maybe the contractor just doesn't believe in all the regulation and hires himself out to work relatively under the table. Maybe he's a freedom fighter fighting against government red-tape! <----- waving the American flag

[Wild Cobra]

Well, my father still speaks poor English and has been living, legally and as a citizen, all his life. So if you met him on the street you would probably think he was illegal and you would be dead wrong.
I understand your frustration and anger has lead you to believe a certain way about some people. I've had plenty of caucasion kids knock on my door asking if they could mow my lawn. Are they guilty of taking jobs away from contractors as well? And they speak english!!!
There are plenty of legal residents who do not speak fluent english you know.
Yes, I know. It just isn't common. If I met him, I wouldn't claim with certainty he was illegal, especially the older people. Those who came here in the 70's and earlier had different policies to file under than the younger crowd.

[JoeChalupa]

I know I'd be pissed if I were a contractor and was losing jobs because of under cutting my bids with cheap labor. But as the consumer, and I'm not saying it is right, most will go with the better deal. Yeah, you get what you pay for but a better deal doesn't always mean a lousier job.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, maybe the contractor just doesn't believe in all the regulation and hires himself out to work relatively under the table. Maybe he's a freedom fighter fighting against government red-tape! <----- waving the American flag
In which case he's making the need for other's to pay more in taxes.

Like I said, something doesn't add up.

[JoeChalupa]

Yes, I know. It just isn't common. If I met him, I wouldn't claim with certainty he was illegal, especially the older people. Those who came here in the 70's and earlier had different policies to file under than the younger crowd.

True.

[4>0rings]

I know that. The numbers just don't add up. He paid $325 for a job requiring $200 in supplies. That's $125 left over for 2 the two workers. He said "just over" so let's assume $65 each for 6 hrs of labor. The only contractors I have ever seen that will work at that wage are illegals.

This is true. They had to be illegals or close to, nobody in the business would work for that.

[JoeChalupa]

This is true. They had to be illegals or close to, nobody in the business would work for that.

You mean legals working in the business right? There are many in the "construction" business who would and do work for that.

[JoeChalupa]

Depending on the bid I get I'll decide if I will do it myself....I'm kinda on the fence right now...

[Drachen]

I'm curious Drachen...

Did the help speak any English?

If you don't remember, I said that all the workers involved are white. The owner however is of Hispanic origin, and I speak better spanish than he does.

[Drachen]

Depending on the bid I get I'll decide if I will do it myself....I'm kinda on the fence right now...

Hah, well as old as it is, that fence may fall over, so watch out, I think the guys who built it spoke spanish.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

For a legitimate contractor, it is bad pay. I don't see someone with skill working for that little. Want a boached up job?


I have when times were good and even more so in this economy.

[Wild Cobra]

If you don't remember, I said that all the workers involved are white. The owner however is of Hispanic origin, and I speak better spanish than he does.
No, that's not what you said.

Your niece's father could live in a different state for all I know, and you acquaintance, someone else. Your white buddy could have contracted to illegals.

I'm not a mind reader.

[Das Texan]

But they are required to have tax ID's then and pay 14.9% of their wages in payroll taxes. That cuts the $11.00 down to $9.36 an hour, of which they still have to pay income tax on.

Know any legal contractors willing to work that cheap?


there is no payroll tax for independent contractors.


you pay income tax and then you pay the self employed tax or whatever term they use.


i'm sure if they are independents they write off plenty as well to lower their tax burden or at least if they had half a brain.

[Wild Cobra]

there is no payroll tax for independent contractors.


you pay income tax and then you pay the self employed tax or whatever term they use.


i'm sure if they are independents they write off plenty as well to lower their tax burden or at least if they had half a brain.
The employer does not deduct the payroll tax, but the contractor must, or chance facing tax evasion charges.

I'm saying the contractor has to pay the 15.3% out of the money he receives, both ends of the payroll tax. 7.65% employer and 7.65% employee, any insurances and other taxes, and his share of income taxes. The 15.3% off the top reduces the contractors money rather harshly. That $65 job becomes more like I'm not 100% sure how it works, but its something like this. The person hiring the contractor needs their tax ID number to write the cost off. The IRS want theses 'papers' else the parties may find themselves subject to audit, and tax evasion charges.

Note. I realized I was wrong on the percentage and changed it from previous posts. Of the 7.65%, 6.2% is Social Security and 1.45% is Medicare.

[JoeChalupa]

Best bid was $896.00

[Drachen]

Best bid was $896.00

There you go, just about in line with the 15 we were talking about.

Oh and my AC went out on Sunday and I had my cousin come over yesterday to fix it. Parts were $89, but I have a question about labor. His labor cost me 2 beers, but one was a Corona that has been in the fridge for about 2 months. Do I have to tell him to claim the retail cost of that beer on his taxes, or can he depreciate the value based on its age??

[tlongII]

Best bid was $896.00

Take it and give them a $4 tip! :tu

[Xevious]

And fuck mowing the grass at 8:30 am, were you still drunk from the night before?
You'd rather mow the lawn in the middle of the day in this San Antonio heat? Get it done early.

[mrsmaalox]

Best bid was $896.00

And you offered to cover 50%? I say write the check, pull out the lawn chair, pop open a cold one and enjoy the show :toast

[Wild Cobra]

And you offered to cover 50%? I say write the check, pull out the lawn chair, pop open a cold one and enjoy the show :toast
I'd say consider some of the higher quotes. I would worry about the lowest. Maybe a $1000 quote?

I'd jump at $500 if i didn't build it myself.

[JoeChalupa]

And you offered to cover 50%? I say write the check, pull out the lawn chair, pop open a cold one and enjoy the show :toast

Well, I did the quote on paper and it was for cedar and included the removal, new posts and all materials and also haul away. I got him through service website so he does have a good reputation and references.

Twist....so this morning I'm working and I hear all this noise outside and some power tools going so I look out the window and he's already started tearing down the fence and next thing I know he is at my front door but I tell the kids that I am working and won't have time until lunch to talk to him but to tell him that I had found a lower quote and to be sure not to dispose of all the good boards I had already replaced.
I had not agreed to his price and so now we are going to have a problem and I had told him that I was considering doing it myself
I haven't talked to him yet but this doesn't appear to be heading towards a peaceful solution. He had told me that there is a city ordinance that says we must split the costs since the fence is along property lines.
Great...just great.

[Das Texan]

There you go, just about in line with the 15 we were talking about.

Oh and my AC went out on Sunday and I had my cousin come over yesterday to fix it. Parts were $89, but I have a question about labor. His labor cost me 2 beers, but one was a Corona that has been in the fridge for about 2 months. Do I have to tell him to claim the retail cost of that beer on his taxes, or can he depreciate the value based on its age??

dont forget that working for beer isnt sustainable to live on.

[JoeChalupa]

I'd say consider some of the higher quotes. I would worry about the lowest. Maybe a $1000 quote?

I'd jump at $500 if i didn't build it myself.

I did consider but it but the materials were the same. Labor costs is where the difference is at. The lower bid came from a father and son so that could be why.
Another neighbor had his fence done by the lower bid and he was very pleased.

[Wild Cobra]

I did consider but it but the materials were the same. Labor costs is where the difference is at. The lower bid came from a father and son so that could be why.
Another neighbor had his fence done by the lower bid and he was very pleased.
As long as you think the quality will be there. Just hope they are making decent money in the process.

[Das Texan]

As long as you think the quality will be there. Just hope they are making decent money in the process.



How is that Joe's problem?

[JoeChalupa]

As long as you think the quality will be there. Just hope they are making decent money in the process.

They must be or why make me such a quote? I don't normally worry about how much money a service provider is going to make. That is on them and not on me. From experience I've learned that good quality work doesn't always cost the same. Sometimes you are paying extra simply for who is doing the work.

[Wild Cobra]

They must be or why make me such a quote? I don't normally worry about how much money a service provider is going to make. That is on them and not on me. From experience I've learned that good quality work doesn't always cost the same. Sometimes you are paying extra simply for who is doing the work.
I agree. Looks like you have things on track.

[tlongII]

Sounds like you're on the hook for $650. Bummer!

[Wild Cobra]

Sounds like you're on the hook for $650. Bummer!
No, with the quote he found, he is only on the hook for $448, if he goes through with it.

[JoeChalupa]

Sounds like you're on the hook for $650. Bummer!

the People's court!!! I didn't agree but yeah, I don't want to be a bad neighbor....the wife on the other hand...she is NOT going to be so forthcoming. She is going to say F that!

[JoeChalupa]

No, with the quote he found, he is only on the hook for $448, if he goes through with it.

yeah, but the higher bid has already started and the fence is already down

[Wild Cobra]

yeah, but the higher bid has already started and the fence is already down
Did you agree to that?

If not, stick with half the lower bid, or tell your neighbor thanks for the new fence. If it was a unilateral decision, then the payment can be too.

[Wild Cobra]

He had told me that there is a city ordinance that says we must split the costs since the fence is along property lines.
Great...just great.
Does the city ordinance allow for a unilateral decision?

Wow...

If I was rich and wanted to screw a neighbor, I could tear down and rebuild a fence every month!