Spurs trading out of the first round?

[Bruno]

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/06/23/draft.notes/index.html

Teams who have investigated trading out of the first round to get away from guaranteed money: Miami, Chicago and San Antonio. The Heat and Bulls want as much cap space as possible for free agency, while the Spurs made a heavy investment before the season by going over the luxury tax. "There's a lot of picks kind of like, 'Let's get rid of this thing,' " one opposing executive said.


Celtics are also said ready to trade their pick:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16996/source-cs-shopping-pick

According to a source close to Boston Celtics general manager Danny Ainge, the Celtics have put their first-round pick in the NBA draft -- No. 19 overall -- on the market Wednesday, looking for a suitor.


So #17, #18, #19 and #20 are available? :downspin:

[DesignatedT]

lol I don't think anyone has a clue on what the spurs are doing.

[TIMMYD!]

I just want it to be tomorrow already so we can all know what the hell the FO is gonna do.

[Shastafarian]

With the perception that this is a weak draft, they could only expect their 20th pick to be valued as a late first rounder. Wouldn't get too much in return me thinks.

[tp2021]

The highest pick they've had in a while and they still don't want it.

I guess drafting so high has the FO out of their comfort-zone!

[tdunk21]

#20 is the only chance of getting some young SG/SF....

[The Truth #6]

lol I don't think anyone has a clue on what the spurs are doing.

Including them.

[Muser]

Makes sense.

[scottspurs]

Trade Parker, Trade Hill, Move up into the top 5, trade up into lottery, promised picks, and trading out of the draft completely. Yep no one, but the FO really knows what is going on. Let's just get this over with already.

[stnick2261]

Hmm.... what's the cost difference between #17 and a veteran minimum contract? $1mil for a young player who wouldn't get playing time?... what's the talent difference between that same #17 pick and an undrafted player?... probably worth the cost?

Even if it's a draft and stash... I've never really understood selling first round draft picks without getting a 1st rounder in a later year at least back.

[AnthonyM]

Of all of the trade rumors and scenarios that are out there, the Spurs trading out of the first round is the most likely for obvious reasons.

The Spurs FO is still the same FO that likes to do things under the radar and more interested in draft-and-stash than making a splash on draft night and trading into the top ten.

I'm not saying the Spurs making a move is not possible but this is typical Spurs FO and seems like the most likely scenario financially. And it's probably the best option too.

Edit: I meant drafting at 20, or trading out of the first round are more likely than the other options that are out there.

[Blackjack]

This is exactly why, even with all the rumors and perceived activity, I haven't allowed myself to get too excited. Anything could happen. Nothing has been predetermined.

[timvp]

When the Spurs float out word that they want to trade their pick before the draft, that has usually meant they have promised the pick to a player and want to put up a smokescreen.

:stirpot:

[tdunk21]

am sure i would be one of many pissed off people if spurs trade out of 1st round and re-sign mason, bogans, bonner

[Bruno]

I don't think it's a coincidence that all these consecutive picks are available.

The 15 players in the green room (Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins, Monroe, Davis, Aminu, Babbit, Udoh, Henry, George, Patterson, Aldrich and Hayward) all looked good but there is a big drop after that. Teams picking just after this top 15 are in a complicate situation.

[Duncan2177]

am sure i would be one of many pissed off people if spurs trade out of 1st round and re-sign mason, bogans, bonner

Thats when you know the spurs dont care about winning, the FO would be dumb to trade out of the 1st round. I dont see the spurs trading out of the first round.

[The Truth #6]

When the Spurs float out word that they want to trade their pick before the draft, that has usually meant they have promised the pick to a player and want to put up a smokescreen.

:stirpot:

So then we should guess that they promised Elli0t, the trading pick rumor is smokescreen, and then Portland will grab the 19th pick and grab our player again?

Let's hope not.

[timvp]

I don't think it's a coincidence that all these consecutive picks are available.

The 15 players in the green room (Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins, Monroe, Davis, Aminu, Babbit, Udoh, Henry, George, Patterson, Aldrich and Hayward) all looked good but there is a big drop after that. Teams picking just after this top 15 are in a complicate situation.

True.

This draft really falls off after those 15 players. If the Spurs really do want to trade their pick, they can probably get the most right now. Waiting only will make the value go down because the supply of available picks is sure to grow.

[Blackjack]

When the Spurs float out word that they want to trade their pick before the draft, that has usually meant they have promised the pick to a player and want to put up a smokescreen.

:stirpot:

I had a similar thought, especially reading all the speculation about Pritchard's plans to spoil the Spurs' plans again. But I really think they're just exhausting all options.

At 20 they're not likely going to find a player that fills a real position of need or one that'll be capable of helping them too significantly in their first year. So unless they can trade up or get there hands on someone that can contribute right off the bat significantly, someone who fills a position of need now and in the future or just a talent they can't pass up that could be stashed away (a la Splitter), there's just no real impetus to take on another guaranteed contract given the state of their finance.

This probably is a bit of a smokescreen but I think it's more to do with due-diligence and exhausting one's abilities to make available the best options possible. Like I said before, nothing's been predetermined and anything could happen.

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out, if nothing else . . .

[Solid D]

Spurs always do their due-diligence and what-if scenarios. If the Blazers, Thunder, Rockets, or the like were to jump in front of the Spurs and get the last guy on their list...they trade out.

Boston being willing to trade out gives a team an opportunity to jump in front.




Celtics are also said ready to trade their pick:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/16996/source-cs-shopping-pick



So #17, #18, #19 and #20 are available? :downspin:

[Blackjack]

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/189/heathere.jpg

Sweet, Jebus! :wow

I guess they weren't lying about too much plastic surgery making you look like a cat . . .

[wildbill2u]

I don't think it's a coincidence that all these consecutive picks are available.

The 15 players in the green room (Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins, Monroe, Davis, Aminu, Babbit, Udoh, Henry, George, Patterson, Aldrich and Hayward) all looked good but there is a big drop after that. Teams picking just after this top 15 are in a complicate situation.

Read a quote by Larry Bird who confirmed that a lot of teams are trying to trade out of first round. Must be a consensus that the talent drop off after the first few picks is enormus.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Read a quote by Larry Bird who confirmed that a lot of teams are trying to trade out of first round. Must be a consensus that the talent drop off after the first few picks is enormus.

That's why I think that you don't trade Parker unless it is to NJ or Philly. This crap about Indiana is ridiculous.

[benefactor]

All this means is that Splitter and the Spurs have come to an agreement and the Spurs want to decrease the amount of guaranteed money on the books.

[Brazil]

All this means is that Splitter and the Spurs have come to an agreement and the Spurs want to decrease the amount of guaranteed money on the books.

lets cross the fingers !

[Solid D]

Spurs always do their due-diligence and what-if scenarios. If the Blazers, Thunder, Rockets, or the like were to jump in front of the Spurs and get the last guy on their list...they trade out.

Boston being willing to trade out gives a team an opportunity to jump in front.

...now we just see the announcement that the Thunder have traded up for #18. Right on cue.

[E-RockWill]

This is exactly why, even with all the rumors and perceived activity, I haven't allowed myself to get too excited. Anything could happen. Nothing has been predetermined.

This

[Brazil]

...now we just see the announcement that the Thunder have traded up for #18. Right on cue.

they will go after Seraphin

[Solid D]

they will go after Seraphin

They want a Big in the worst way.

[DPG21920]

I don't think it's a coincidence that all these consecutive picks are available.

The 15 players in the green room (Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins, Monroe, Davis, Aminu, Babbit, Udoh, Henry, George, Patterson, Aldrich and Hayward) all looked good but there is a big drop after that. Teams picking just after this top 15 are in a complicate situation.

I agree. People want excitement and stories, but sometimes the obvious and simple answer is the easiest.

If the Spurs wanted to move up some, they could have easily done so with Miami. I don't see the Spurs making any moves and I don't see any worth while players in their range.

Just move the pick. I hate to see them doing it for money reasons and not winning reasons, but I understand.

[Solid D]

If the spurs trade the pick or do the draft and stash.......they are not serious about winning another title. There are several up and coming teams out west, we must improve our bench, size, shooting and athletic ability and at 20 Im sure we can get someone who can improve us in one or more areas.

Not necessarily, Texas 2 Step. Money factors cause teams to come up with some interesting plans in order to win. Case in point, the Blackhawks just traded Dustin Byfuglien to Atlanta for picks and role players. The Heat traded out to save $2M to put them closer to the hunt for someone like LeBron in FA. Money, Free Agency, and potential talent that can contribute now, all play into the decisions.

[DPG21920]

Spurs are not a team with cap space though.

[Solid D]

Spurs are not a team with cap space though.

The variable aspects of potential decisions include moving someone like Richard Jefferson or a certain PG.

[DPG21920]

Even sans RJ, the Spurs are still over the cap. Spurs have to improve via trade & draft, because FA is Tiago and that is pretty much it. Sure, they might be able to find a decent wing for the LLE, but this draft (in theory) was a chance to add.

If they are trading the pick because they don't want guaranteed salary, that is a cost cutting move and not a winning move.

Other teams, like Miami, that is not the case necessarily, but for the Spurs that appears to be the case if true.

Now if they trade a pick for a player, great.

[PDXSpursFan]

Yes, trade #20 and Hill for a big that will help us win now.

[SenorSpur]

If the spurs trade the pick or do the draft and stash.......they are not serious about winning another title. There are several up and coming teams out west, we must improve our bench, size, shooting and athletic ability and at 20 Im sure we can get someone who can improve us in one or more areas.

Agreed. I don't believe this rumor for one minute. Regardless of the Splitter situation, the Spurs need to draft a player that can best provide even a minor contribution next season.

BTW, ESPN's Chad Ford was just on ESPN1250 "the Zone" with Chris and Jason and he stated that the Spurs have been one of the teams most active in talks. He went onto say that they have been actively trying to shop RJ. Assuming they're able to somehow move him, and even if they don't, they STILL need to address the SF position in this draft.

I'm convinced they're trying to move up to take the SF of their choice.

[Bruno]

If the Spurs wanted to move up some, they could have easily done so with Miami.

Miami had the 18th pick. If Spurs wanted one of the top 15 player,
it likely wasn't enough.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I could see this. I've envisioned the Spurs trying to trade up or trade out of round 1 because I don't know if there are too many players who can help the Spurs win now who will be available at 20.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

A team with a short window won't want to pay guaranteed money to a project player.

[SenorSpur]

A team with a short window won't want to pay guaranteed money to a project player.

Right. They'll be coveting a player who can come in and contribute almost immediately. AFter all, success has been had with Hill and Blair. I'm sure they will go that route again.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Right. They'll be coveting a player who can come in and contribute almost immediately. AFter all, success has been had with Hill and Blair. I'm sure they will go that route again.

Exactly....if they end up drafting at 20 it won't be for one of the project centers some people are projecting. Maybe they have someone in mind at 20...but I still think the rumors about them trying to move the pick are true.

[DPG21920]

Miami had the 18th pick. If Spurs wanted one of the top 15 player,
it likely wasn't enough.

Yeah, I know, but it was just an example. It does not appear that hard to move up closer to that 15 pick. Every little bit helps, especially when there is not a lot of cost associated.

[AnthonyM]

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/189/heathere.jpg

Sweet, Jebus! :wow

I guess they weren't lying about too much plastic surgery making you look like a cat . . .

Are you kidding?...she looks good!

[Solid D]

Even sans RJ, the Spurs are still over the cap. Spurs have to improve via trade & draft, because FA is Tiago and that is pretty much it. Sure, they might be able to find a decent wing for the LLE, but this draft (in theory) was a chance to add.

If they are trading the pick because they don't want guaranteed salary, that is a cost cutting move and not a winning move.

Other teams, like Miami, that is not the case necessarily, but for the Spurs that appears to be the case if true.

Now if they trade a pick for a player, great.

Yes, trading out of the first round just for the sake of salary dump, without other moves is not a winning move. You are correct.

[Solid D]

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/189/heathere.jpg

I guess they weren't lying about too much plastic surgery making you look like a cat . . .

I can't believe Katherine Heigl got plastic surgery! :wow

[DPG21920]

I thought that was Rene Zelwedger.

[Mel_13]

Unfortunately, Heather Locklear.

[Solid D]

Unfortunately, Heather Locklear.

That's sad. I was kidding about Katherine, but I had no idea that might be Heather.

[ChuckD]

With the perception that this is a weak draft, they could only expect their 20th pick to be valued as a late first rounder. Wouldn't get too much in return me thinks.

I haven't heard ANYONE say it was a weak draft. In fact, they say that players 10-20 are very consistent, meaning lotto talent down to 20.

[AnthonyM]

That's sad. I was kidding about Katherine, but I had no idea that might be Heather.

Yeah...I got it from a "celeb before and after" thread in The Club.

There are some other sad ones...but Heather takes the cake.

[Shastafarian]

I haven't heard ANYONE say it was a weak draft.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

[J_Paco]

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Allegedly, this draft has depth well into the second round. If the Spurs don't think they can find a quality player at #20, the highest pick they've had in 13 years, then they just don't want to take on more salary. They've gotta find some help at the 2, 3 or 4, and ditching their first-round pick won't be helping the cause.

[Shastafarian]

Many people are saying there are significant drops after the 5th and ~15th picks. There might be a nice spread of talent throughout the draft, but there isn't a depth of game changing talent.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs trading the 1st round pick was my original assumption, but I don't know if I still believe it..toss-up..I wouldn't mind if they traded up, but getting rid of a 20th pick doesn't bother me..

The fact that they gave contracts to Hairston, Temple, Gee and Jerrells(+ the addition of a potential 2nd round pick) also indicates to me that they have a back-up plan for competition from young players if they don't get a 1st rounder..none of those guys are great prospects, but 3 of the 4 have shown some potential..

People love to overrate draft picks, especially in the 15-30 range IMO..

[rascal]

I don't think it's a coincidence that all these consecutive picks are available.

The 15 players in the green room (Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson, Cousins, Monroe, Davis, Aminu, Babbit, Udoh, Henry, George, Patterson, Aldrich and Hayward) all looked good but there is a big drop after that. Teams picking just after this top 15 are in a complicate situation.

Thats why it was better for the spurs future success to not have made the playoffs.

[rascal]

If the spurs trade the pick or do the draft and stash.......they are not serious about winning another title. There are several up and coming teams out west, we must improve our bench, size, shooting and athletic ability and at 20 Im sure we can get someone who can improve us in one or more areas.

I agree. There should be a player that falls to 20 that can help the spurs.

[cd98]

I think the problem is that after 15, there is little distinction between a first rounder and a second rounder in terms of talent. So why take on a guaranteed contract for a player that has only marginally better potential than a second rounder who doesn't have a guaranteed contract.

[slick'81]

it makes the most sense there allready paying tim,tony,manu,rj and now splitter if theres not a player they like at 20 there not gonna guarantee another contract for a player who wont play this coming year

[Thomas82]

I could see this. I've envisioned the Spurs trying to trade up or trade out of round 1 because I don't know if there are too many players who can help the Spurs win now who will be available at 20.


A team with a short window won't want to pay guaranteed money to a project player.


Right. They'll be coveting a player who can come in and contribute almost immediately. AFter all, success has been had with Hill and Blair. I'm sure they will go that route again.


Yes, trading out of the first round just for the sake of salary dump, without other moves is not a winning move. You are correct.


These are all good points.

[Duncanonu]

The point being missed here is that the Spurs are over the luxury tax mark, not that they are over the salary cap. It is no secret that the Spurs do not like that notion. If the Spurs trade this pick away or play the draft and stash game, it isn't to gain room under the cap, it is so they won't be paying the dollar for dollar tax. No matter what moves they make, there will be no cap space. Trading in the nba requires getting matching salaries in return or finding a partner with adequate cap space to absorb the contract. It's nba dealing 101.

In order to use our exceptions and \ or bring over Splitter they have to consider all means of delaying salary counting against them this year. By dealing away this pick for future asset(s) or drafting a foreign player to bring over later they can achieve this. What the Spurs are doing is simply putting out feelers in all directions to help educate themselves so they can make the proper decisions.

This draft is not overly strong with immediate difference makers, certainly not 20 picks into the draft. However, this could be one of the best years ever in regards to using the MLE, due to the crazy number of valuable players who are free agents. The free agent market is saturated with more good talent than there are teams under the cap to sign them. That means that some players who would normally get paid by a team under the cap are going to have to settle for exception money for a year and try to play their way into big money as a free agent next year. So what would u rather have? Somebody like Hassan Whiteside at number 20 or a free agent left standing with only MLE offers after, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Joe Johnson, Amare, and Boozer take the available money. I am not going to go through the list of free agents, but it is amore impressive list than the list of available players at 20th pick.

There is risk either way, and that is what the Spurs have to weigh. The risk in the above theory is what if all these fa superstars simply return to their teams? Then perhaps we dont get value with our MLE. The safer move IS to trade this pick for future assets, since u arent losing anything, but simply delaying its financial impact. Not to mention future picks are more tradable commodities, since they dont have salaries attached to them that must be matched or absorbed under the cap.

Would it be better on the surface to try to find a steal at 20 and then use the MLE? Certainly, but that just might not be possible without trading away salary. That is highly unlikely with the teams with cap space hoarding it right now due to this fa class. I don't know what they are going to do, but it isn't going to be anything that puts them any further into the luxury tax. Not after the RJ trade that put them into this mess. Trading out of the first or drafting a player and stashing him is the approach that risks the least, so it is very possible.To say anything else is simply showing ignorance in the nba collective bargaining agreement currently in place.

[Marcus Bryant]

When the Spurs float out word that they want to trade their pick before the draft, that has usually meant they have promised the pick to a player and want to put up a smokescreen.

:stirpot:

:tu

[wildbill2u]

As reality sinks in about the relative talent and probable performance of picks after 15 and the cost to the Spurs in guaranteed money plus luxury tax, I think it becomes more likely that the Spurs might choose a foreigh player who they could draft and stash overseas.

Been there and done that.

[AFBlue]

"trade out" translates to "trade up" when you use the CIA Pop decoder ring.

[Duncan2177]

As reality sinks in about the relative talent and probable performance of picks after 15 and the cost to the Spurs in guaranteed money plus luxury tax, I think it becomes more likely that the Spurs might choose a foreigh player who they could draft and stash overseas.

Been there and done that.

Thats getting really old the spurs need young athletic talent now.

[BackHome]

If we can't do a trade for a top ten player then I am Ok with trading out just as long as we can trade it for a high second round pick. We could trade Hill to Indiana switch our first round picks and then switch our second round picks.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

When the Spurs float out word that they want to trade their pick before the draft, that has usually meant they have promised the pick to a player and want to put up a smokescreen.

Couple this with the Yahoo draft notes that a certain Eli0t was reportes as hurting his knee during his workout in SA and hasn't worked out since for anyone, and well....

[lurker23]

"trade out" translates to "trade up" when you use the CIA Pop decoder ring.

My CIA Pop decoder ring has multiple translation options for "trade out." However, I think I need to get a less complicated one, because in addition to "trade up" and "stay put," it also includes the potential translations of "foreign player rights firesale," "1983 Merlot," and "punch Dennis Lindsey wearing all 4 championship rings." :wow

[Interrohater]

My CIA Pop decoder ring has multiple translation options for "trade out." However, I think I need to get a less complicated one, because in addition to "trade up" and "stay put," it also includes the potential translations of "foreign player rights firesale," "1983 Merlot," and "punch Dennis Lindsey wearing all 4 championship rings." :wow

We must be shopping at the same store.