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ElNono
06-25-2010, 08:11 PM
Closing Guantánamo Fades as a Priority (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/us/politics/26gitmo.html?hp)
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: June 25, 2010

WASHINGTON — Stymied by political opposition and focused on competing priorities, the Obama administration has sidelined efforts to close the Guantánamo prison, making it unlikely that President Obama will fulfill his promise to close it before his term ends in 2013.

When the White House acknowledged last year that it would miss Mr. Obama’s initial January 2010 deadline for shutting the prison, it also declared that the detainees would eventually be moved to one in Illinois. But impediments to that plan have mounted in Congress, and the administration is doing little to overcome them.

“There is a lot of inertia” against closing the prison, “and the administration is not putting a lot of energy behind their position that I can see,” said Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and supports the Illinois plan. He added that “the odds are that it will still be open” by the next presidential inauguration.

And Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who also supports shutting it, said the effort is “on life support and it’s unlikely to close any time soon.” He attributed the collapse to some fellow Republicans’ “demagoguery” and the administration’s poor planning and decision-making “paralysis.”

The White House insists it is still determined to shutter the prison. The administration argues that Guantánamo is a symbol in the Muslim world of past detainee abuses, citing military views that its continued operation helps terrorists.

“Our commanders have made clear that closing the detention facility at Guantánamo is a national security imperative, and the president remains committed to achieving that goal,” said a White House spokesman, Ben LaBolt.

Still, some senior officials say privately that the administration has done its part, including identifying the Illinois prison — an empty maximum-security center in Thomson, 150 miles west of Chicago — where the detainees could be held. They blame Congress for failing to execute that endgame.

“The president can’t just wave a magic wand to say that Gitmo will be closed,” said a senior administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal thinking on a sensitive issue.

The politics of closing the prison have clearly soured following the attempted bombings on a plane on Dec. 25 and in Times Square in May, as well as Republican criticism that imprisoning detainees in the United States would endanger Americans. When Mr. Obama took office a slight majority supported closing it. By a March 2010 poll, 60 percent wanted it to stay open.

One administration official argued that the White House was still trying. On May 26, Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, James Jones, sent a letter to the House Appropriations Committee reiterating the case.

But Mr. Levin portrayed the administration as unwilling to make a serious effort to exert its influence, contrasting its muted response to legislative hurdles to closing Guantánamo with “very vocal” threats to veto financing for a fighter jet engine it opposes.

Last year, for example, the administration stood aside as lawmakers restricted the transfer of detainees into the United States except for prosecution. And its response was silence several weeks ago, Mr. Levin said, as the House and Senate Armed Services Committees voted to block money for renovating the Illinois prison to accommodate detainees, and to restrict transfers from Guantánamo to other countries — including, in the Senate version, a bar on Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia. About 130 of the 181 detainees are from those countries.

“They are not really putting their shoulder to the wheel on this issue,” Mr. Levin said of White House officials. “It’s pretty dormant in terms of their public positions.”

Several administration officials expressed hope that political winds might shift if, for example, high-level Qaeda leaders are killed, or if lawmakers focus on how expensive it is to operate a prison at the isolated base.

A recent Pentagon study, obtained by The New York Times, shows taxpayers spent more than $2 billion between 2002 and 2009 on the prison. Administration officials believe taxpayers would save about $180 million a year in operating costs if Guantánamo detainees were held at Thomson, which they hope Congress will allow the Justice Department to buy from the State of Illinois at least for federal inmates.

But in a sign that some may be making peace with keeping Guantánamo open, officials also praise improvements at the prison. An interagency review team brought order to scattered files. Mr. Obama banned brutal interrogations. Congress overhauled military commissions to give defendants more safeguards.

One category — detainees cleared for release who cannot be repatriated for their own safety — is on a path to extinction: allies have accepted 33, and just 22 await resettlement. Another — those who will be held without trials — has been narrowed to 48.

Still, the administration has faced a worsening problem in dealing with the prison’s large Yemeni population, including 58 low-level detainees who would already have been repatriated had they been from a more stable country, officials say.

The administration asked Saudi Arabia to put some Yemenis through a program aimed at rehabilitating jihadists but was rebuffed, officials said. And Mr. Obama imposed a moratorium on Yemen transfers after the failed Dec. 25 attack, planned by a Yemen-based branch of Al Qaeda whose members include two former Guantánamo detainees from Saudi Arabia.

As a result, the Obama administration has been further entangled in practices many of its officials lamented during the Bush administration. A judge this month ordered the government to release a 26-year-old Yemeni imprisoned since 2002, citing overwhelming evidence of his innocence. The Obama team decided last year to release the man, but shifted course after the moratorium. This week, the National Security Council decided to send the man to Yemen in a one-time exception, an official said on Friday.

Meanwhile, discussions have faltered between Mr. Graham and the White House aimed at crafting a bipartisan legislative package that would close Guantánamo while bolstering legal authorities for detaining terrorism suspects without trial.

Mr. Graham said such legislation would build confidence about holding detainees, including future captures, in an untainted prison inside the United States. But the talks lapsed.

“We can’t get anyone to give us a final answer,” he said. “It just goes into a black hole. I don’t know what happens.”

In any case, one senior official said, even if the administration concludes that it will never close the prison, it cannot acknowledge that because it would revive Guantánamo as America’s image in the Muslim world.

“Guantánamo is a negative symbol, but it is much diminished because we are seen as trying to close it,” the official said. “Closing Guantánamo is good, but fighting to close Guantánamo is O.K. Admitting you failed would be the worst.”

Thom Shanker contributed reporting.

Veterinarian
06-25-2010, 09:11 PM
Tbh this oil leak is wasting a lot of our time and attention while we should be dealing with other issues. BP is fucking this whole country.

Yonivore
06-25-2010, 09:33 PM
What? Obama finally realize Gitmo was a good place to hold a bunch of murdering terrorists after all?

You Obamaniacs must be crestfallen and heartbroken at the betrayal.

ChumpDumper
06-25-2010, 09:35 PM
Which ones are murdering terrorists?

EmptyMan
06-25-2010, 09:37 PM
You all are looking at this the wrong way!


This is one more thing our President can run on in 2012!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/SaLHjzUdNaI/AAAAAAAABb4/xILyzp1BKrQ/s400/obamabot.bmp

Yonivore
06-25-2010, 09:39 PM
You all are looking at this the wrong way!


This is one more thing our President can run on in 2012!!!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/SaLHjzUdNaI/AAAAAAAABb4/xILyzp1BKrQ/s400/obamabot.bmp
I can see it now! "My predecessor promised to close Guantanamo Bay by the end of January 2010! I can assure you my administration will not repeat the lies of...."

Seriously, how does he use the fact he failed to keep a first-term promise as something to run on in his second presidential bid?

Veterinarian
06-25-2010, 11:03 PM
Lol people just ignore ChumpDumper now because they can't win arguments with him.

Jacob1983
06-26-2010, 01:43 AM
Jack Bauer murders terrorists. Dexter would probably kill them too.

Nbadan
06-26-2010, 02:11 AM
But in a sign that some may be making peace with keeping Guantánamo open, officials also praise improvements at the prison. An interagency review team brought order to scattered files. Mr. Obama banned brutal interrogations. Congress overhauled military commissions to give defendants more safeguards.

The problem wasn't G-mo, the problem was the Bush administration was torturing detainees at the prison and at other locations around the world...

LnGrrrR
06-26-2010, 03:23 AM
You know, fuck Obama. That asshole talked up and down about the rule of law, civil liberties etc etc and he can't come through on one damn thing. What a centrist pos. I mean, WTF? At least Bush took his presidency and ran it supporting right wing ideas for the most part. Obama is too damn afraid to do anything too liberal. Why are Dems such pussies?

Nbadan
06-26-2010, 03:30 AM
Obama is trying to close G'mo but he needs the support of Congress to do so...

Veterinarian
06-26-2010, 03:41 AM
Obama is too damn afraid to do anything too liberal. Why are Dems such pussies?

Qft.

Tbh its the Bullies vs. Pussies. At least some of the faggot Conservatives have the balls to push their shit through. Even if most of it stupid, pro-corporate board bullshit.

Winehole23
06-26-2010, 07:02 AM
What? Obama finally realize Gitmo was a good place to hold a bunch of murdering terrorists after all?

You Obamaniacs must be crestfallen and heartbroken at the betrayal.The exit poll doesn't tally with the hype. One man we admitted we had nothing on as early as 2002 was released just the other day. About 75% of detainees who have filed habeas have won their cases so far. We probably had no good cause to detain the vast majority of them in the first place, to judge from legal results so far.

LnGrrrR
06-26-2010, 07:21 AM
Obama is trying to close G'mo but he needs the support of Congress to do so...

See my "Democrats are pussies" comment.

jack sommerset
06-26-2010, 09:00 AM
Tbh this oil leak is wasting a lot of our time and attention while we should be dealing with other issues. BP is fucking this whole country.

TBH, this oil leak has not stopped Barry from golfing, having concerts, entertaining, date nights, etc.....

boutons_deux
06-26-2010, 09:03 AM
"murdering terrorists"

typical bigoted, prejudiced, pre-judging, ideological Yoni.

ideology: "If America does it, it's perfect" (and Magic Negro isn't American)

Gitmo guys can't even get a trial in military kangaroo court, never mind get a trial in a real court. dubya and dickhead botched Gitmo like they botched everything else. Now the Repugs obstruct Magic Negro trying to unbotch and resolve it by screaming like little bitches that these guys are X-men able to destroy any prison on US soil.

jack sommerset
06-26-2010, 09:04 AM
"ideology: "If America does it, it's perfect" (and Magic Negro isn't American).

Great, another fucking birther.

Wild Cobra
06-26-2010, 10:00 AM
Lol people just ignore ChumpDumper now because they can't win arguments with him.
You have allot to learn. Chump is generally a royal asshole. That's why he gets ignored.

Wild Cobra
06-26-2010, 10:13 AM
Closing Guantánamo Fades as a Priority
It's no longer the liberal fad.

ElNono
06-26-2010, 11:42 AM
The exit poll doesn't tally with the hype. One man we admitted we had nothing on as early as 2002 was released just the other day. About 75% of detainees who have filed habeas have won their cases so far. We probably had no good cause to detain the vast majority of them in the first place, to judge from legal results so far.

I agree this is continuation of bad policy. Ultimately, this administration, in concert with this legislative, are wasting away an opportunity to do things right, and they only have to fault themselves for it.

Yonivore
06-26-2010, 03:01 PM
You know, fuck Obama. That asshole talked up and down about the rule of law, civil liberties etc etc and he can't come through on one damn thing. What a centrist pos. I mean, WTF? At least Bush took his presidency and ran it supporting right wing ideas for the most part. Obama is too damn afraid to do anything too liberal. Why are Dems such pussies?
:lmao

Yonivore
06-26-2010, 03:04 PM
I agree this is continuation of bad policy. Ultimately, this administration, in concert with this legislative, are wasting away an opportunity to do things right, and they only have to fault themselves for it.
The battlefield isn't a crime scene and soldiers aren't investigators. The whole problem with applying domestic criminal and civil law to enemy combatants is ludicrous.

As many as 20% of those released from Guantanamo go back in to the field and start killing Americans again. But, that doesn't mean the other 80% are innocent simply because we didn't have enough evidence to overcome a writ.

Obama now realizes this, you guys don't.

Veterinarian
06-26-2010, 04:00 PM
TBH, this oil leak has not stopped Barry from golfing, having concerts, entertaining, date nights, etc.....

Ok, I laughed at that.

Veterinarian
06-26-2010, 04:01 PM
You have allot to learn. Chump is generally a royal asshole. That's why he gets ignored.

That was such an asshole irrelevant question he asked, huh?

Yonivore
06-26-2010, 04:21 PM
That was such an asshole irrelevant question he asked, huh?
There's nothing relevant about Chump, I've had it on ignore for over a year now.

ElNono
06-26-2010, 04:39 PM
The battlefield isn't a crime scene and soldiers aren't investigators. The whole problem with applying domestic criminal and civil law to enemy combatants is ludicrous.

Label them POW then and use your run of the mill military trials. There was no need to create a middle of the road limbo, and there's still no reason to maintain it.


As many as 20% of those released from Guantanamo go back in to the field and start killing Americans again. But, that doesn't mean the other 80% are innocent simply because we didn't have enough evidence to overcome a writ.

There's nothing stopping the government from trying these guys. If they're getting released it's because they had absolutely no reason to detain them in the first place.


Obama now realizes this, you guys don't.

Looks like Obama can do something right after all, uh Yoni?
I disagree though. When you want to present your justice system, civilian or military, as the standard to follow by the world, this hackery just simply gives the US a bad name.

word
06-26-2010, 04:48 PM
Closing Guantánamo Fades as a Priority (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/26/us/politics/26gitmo.html?hp)
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: June 25, 2010

WASHINGTON — Stymied by political opposition and focused on competing priorities, the Obama administration has sidelined efforts to close the Guantánamo prison, making it unlikely that President Obama will fulfill his promise to close it before his term ends in 2013.

When the White House acknowledged last year that it would miss Mr. Obama’s initial January 2010 deadline for shutting the prison, it also declared that the detainees would eventually be moved to one in Illinois. But impediments to that plan have mounted in Congress, and the administration is doing little to overcome them.

“There is a lot of inertia” against closing the prison, “and the administration is not putting a lot of energy behind their position that I can see,” said Senator Carl Levin, the Michigan Democrat who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and supports the Illinois plan. He added that “the odds are that it will still be open” by the next presidential inauguration.

And Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who also supports shutting it, said the effort is “on life support and it’s unlikely to close any time soon.” He attributed the collapse to some fellow Republicans’ “demagoguery” and the administration’s poor planning and decision-making “paralysis.”

The White House insists it is still determined to shutter the prison. The administration argues that Guantánamo is a symbol in the Muslim world of past detainee abuses, citing military views that its continued operation helps terrorists.

“Our commanders have made clear that closing the detention facility at Guantánamo is a national security imperative, and the president remains committed to achieving that goal,” said a White House spokesman, Ben LaBolt.

Still, some senior officials say privately that the administration has done its part, including identifying the Illinois prison — an empty maximum-security center in Thomson, 150 miles west of Chicago — where the detainees could be held. They blame Congress for failing to execute that endgame.

“The president can’t just wave a magic wand to say that Gitmo will be closed,” said a senior administration official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss internal thinking on a sensitive issue.

The politics of closing the prison have clearly soured following the attempted bombings on a plane on Dec. 25 and in Times Square in May, as well as Republican criticism that imprisoning detainees in the United States would endanger Americans. When Mr. Obama took office a slight majority supported closing it. By a March 2010 poll, 60 percent wanted it to stay open.

One administration official argued that the White House was still trying. On May 26, Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, James Jones, sent a letter to the House Appropriations Committee reiterating the case.

But Mr. Levin portrayed the administration as unwilling to make a serious effort to exert its influence, contrasting its muted response to legislative hurdles to closing Guantánamo with “very vocal” threats to veto financing for a fighter jet engine it opposes.

Last year, for example, the administration stood aside as lawmakers restricted the transfer of detainees into the United States except for prosecution. And its response was silence several weeks ago, Mr. Levin said, as the House and Senate Armed Services Committees voted to block money for renovating the Illinois prison to accommodate detainees, and to restrict transfers from Guantánamo to other countries — including, in the Senate version, a bar on Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia. About 130 of the 181 detainees are from those countries.

“They are not really putting their shoulder to the wheel on this issue,” Mr. Levin said of White House officials. “It’s pretty dormant in terms of their public positions.”

Several administration officials expressed hope that political winds might shift if, for example, high-level Qaeda leaders are killed, or if lawmakers focus on how expensive it is to operate a prison at the isolated base.

A recent Pentagon study, obtained by The New York Times, shows taxpayers spent more than $2 billion between 2002 and 2009 on the prison. Administration officials believe taxpayers would save about $180 million a year in operating costs if Guantánamo detainees were held at Thomson, which they hope Congress will allow the Justice Department to buy from the State of Illinois at least for federal inmates.

But in a sign that some may be making peace with keeping Guantánamo open, officials also praise improvements at the prison. An interagency review team brought order to scattered files. Mr. Obama banned brutal interrogations. Congress overhauled military commissions to give defendants more safeguards.

One category — detainees cleared for release who cannot be repatriated for their own safety — is on a path to extinction: allies have accepted 33, and just 22 await resettlement. Another — those who will be held without trials — has been narrowed to 48.

Still, the administration has faced a worsening problem in dealing with the prison’s large Yemeni population, including 58 low-level detainees who would already have been repatriated had they been from a more stable country, officials say.

The administration asked Saudi Arabia to put some Yemenis through a program aimed at rehabilitating jihadists but was rebuffed, officials said. And Mr. Obama imposed a moratorium on Yemen transfers after the failed Dec. 25 attack, planned by a Yemen-based branch of Al Qaeda whose members include two former Guantánamo detainees from Saudi Arabia.

As a result, the Obama administration has been further entangled in practices many of its officials lamented during the Bush administration. A judge this month ordered the government to release a 26-year-old Yemeni imprisoned since 2002, citing overwhelming evidence of his innocence. The Obama team decided last year to release the man, but shifted course after the moratorium. This week, the National Security Council decided to send the man to Yemen in a one-time exception, an official said on Friday.

Meanwhile, discussions have faltered between Mr. Graham and the White House aimed at crafting a bipartisan legislative package that would close Guantánamo while bolstering legal authorities for detaining terrorism suspects without trial.

Mr. Graham said such legislation would build confidence about holding detainees, including future captures, in an untainted prison inside the United States. But the talks lapsed.

“We can’t get anyone to give us a final answer,” he said. “It just goes into a black hole. I don’t know what happens.”

In any case, one senior official said, even if the administration concludes that it will never close the prison, it cannot acknowledge that because it would revive Guantánamo as America’s image in the Muslim world.

“Guantánamo is a negative symbol, but it is much diminished because we are seen as trying to close it,” the official said. “Closing Guantánamo is good, but fighting to close Guantánamo is O.K. Admitting you failed would be the worst.”

Thom Shanker contributed reporting.


Of course it does. Politics elevates the trivial for elections and we think it means something. We do not, any longer, have a society capable of keeping it's eye on the ball.

SnakeBoy
06-26-2010, 07:08 PM
That was such an asshole irrelevant question he asked, huh?

It was irrelevant to the op and he is ignored becuase we all know that no matter how you answer his question he will simply continue to repost the question and never will engage in any actual discussion.

Winehole23
06-27-2010, 03:27 AM
Politics elevates the trivial for elections and we think it means something. That's nicely turned, word.

Original? Swiped?