The Hairston Fascination

[Gagnrath]

What is it about this guy that seems to get 3 or 4 of the regular posters on spurs talk so excited about this guy? He has pretty decent leaping ability, but doesn't seem particularly quick has not jumpshot, and only so so passing and dribbling abilities for a shooting guard, He's only barely decent sized for small forward and lacks rebounding instincts. He seems like at best he can develop into a 10 minute a night guy somewhere. What is it that people see in him at fires them up can you please tell me?

[dbestpro]

He holds a roster spot extremely well until we can find someone better.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

he's better than QueerJ, and if you are really a spurs fan you would know hariston has the best d on this team, and everytime he was in the game he made plays

[Cane]

Just about every project/Toros player player gets a rabid following on Spurstalk especially if they showed any intriguing glimpses. Also a few of the Coach Pop haters seem to jump on these player-bandwagons and try to use it to affirm their backwards opinion that Pop needs to be fired. Ian Mahinmi threads come to mind.

Hairston has shown good slashing/dunking athleticism but not much else in his limited opportunities. He could very well be on his way out if he doesn't maximize further opportunities since the Spurs need to work on a SF rotation and he's no longer eligible for the d-league IIRC.

[E-RockWill]

He holds a roster spot extremely well until we can find someone better.

Agreed. If he can fill a need @ SF on the cheap, go for it. He has a knack for the offense, decent defense & an ability to get to the rim. Yes, his jumper & handles are a bit lackluster, but we have to be realistic that he is great for the money.

[beachwood]

He can dunk.

From what I've seen of him, he holds a lot of promise. In his limited time made a few hustle plays and his defense wasn't half bad; he was aggressive at attacking the rim. If he gets 20 mins a night I believe he could develop into a reliable role player.

I think he deserved a lot more minutes than what he was getting last year compared to black hole tandem of Bogans and Mason.

[ulosturedge]

The fact that he would have been a better option then "The Centerpiece" last season. He is still deserving of a roster spot over Mason and Bogans. He brings energy and toughness; the only thing he needs to work on is getting confidence in his jumper. Still has way more upside defensively then the people I just mentioned. The problem is you have Alonzo Gee, Garrett Temple, the return of Gist, and a few other players fighting for roster spots now.

[Chomag]

Just about every project/Toros player player gets a rabid following on Spurstalk especially if they showed any intriguing glimpses. Also a few of the Coach Pop haters seem to jump on these player-bandwagons and try to use it to affirm their backwards opinion that Pop needs to be fired. Ian Mahinmi threads come to mind.

Hairston has shown good slashing/dunking athleticism but not much else in his limited opportunities. He could very well be on his way out if he doesn't maximize further opportunities since the Spurs need to work on a SF rotation and he's no longer eligible for the d-league IIRC.


I would actually say it's 50/50. There are people that love these guys and hope to see them achieve then there are those that outright hate them and go to many means of putting them down every chance they can get.

It seems like on this board if they are not all-star players then kick them to the curb.

[Chucho]

I would actually say it's 50/50. There are people that love these guys and hope to see them achieve then there are those that outright hate them and go to many means of putting them down every chance they can get.

It seems like on this board if they are not all-star players then kick them to the curb.

Or if they are marginal talents at best, too many slurp them as if they are future All-Stars sent to San Antonio to be the saviors of the franchise.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hairston was hyped because he performed extremely well in last year's Summer League and preseason..the hype grew because he was supposed to have beaten out Bogans for that role with their respective performances in preseason, but was stashed behind Centerpiece..

As Bogans continued to struggle, people kept asking for Hairston..this was compounded by the fact that Hairston led the D-league in scoring in his time there last season, and then he performed well in his limited time with the Spurs..

The young players here get hyped because the fans here are used to old, unathletic players that can no longer produce defensively in an athletic league(Finley, Mason, Bogans, Udoka as examples)..so when they see a guy like Hairston dunking, rebounding and defending and outproducing his older counterpart, they get hyped more..it's not that we believe Hairston is that good, it's just that we believe he was better than the alternative..

He's a great rebounder for a wing, good defender and slasher, great leaper..horrible ball-handler and poor outside shooter..if he plays well in SL and preseason again, he'll make the team, if he doesn't, the fans will move on and find somebody else..

If Hairston is cut, the next young player that is stashed behind a useless vet will be the next player to get hyped, it's a cycle..

[Chomag]

Hairston was hyped because he performed extremely well in last year's Summer League and preseason..the hype grew because he was supposed to have beaten out Bogans for that role with their respective performances in preseason, but was stashed behind Centerpiece..

As Bogans continued to struggle, people kept asking for Hairston..this was compounded by the fact that Hairston led the D-league in scoring in his time there last season, and then he performed well in his limited time with the Spurs..

The young players here get hyped because the fans here are used to old, unathletic players that can no longer produce defensively in an athletic league(Finley, Mason, Bogans, Udoka as examples)..so when they see a guy like Hairston dunking, rebounding and defending and outproducing his older counterpart, they get hyped more..it's not that we believe Hairston is that good, it's just that we believe he was better than the alternative..

He's a great rebounder for a wing, good defender and slasher, great leaper..horrible ball-handler and poor outside shooter..if he plays well in SL and preseason again, he'll make the team, if he doesn't, the fans will move on and find somebody else..

If Hairston is cut, the next young player that is stashed behind a useless vet will be the next player to get hyped, it's a cycle..


This is pretty much how I felt. In pre-season Hairston outplayed Bogans in every-way and it wasn't even close. Yet Bogans was still picked over him, that's something that still baffles me to even this day.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I think drafting Anderson basically decided that, on the Spurs, Hairston's peak will be the 10th man at best.

[Gagnrath]

Ok seeing the hairston support as something of a farm team love/ bogans hate makes more sense than liking the guy rabidly for what he brings to the table. He's going to stick as a 10th guy on some roster somewhere as a 2 guard / small forward but he's going to just be borderline, and not see much playing time. It may or not be the spurs. Temple brings more to the table as a guard at either the 1 or 2. Malik outleaping people isn't going to last long or develop much especially if he ever faces regular rotation players instead of subs and garbage time guys.

[Blackjack]

You're not doing it right. :smokin

[dbestpro]

My question is (we saw how aggressive FA Tolliver was on defense and how his outside shot improved in GSt.) who would you choose to play back up SF, Hairston or Tolliver?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Tolliver is more of an undersized PF. He would basically played as the new Bonner.

[Obstructed_View]

It's amazing how many people like to comment on Hairston who clearly never watched him play. I particularly love the "he can't shoot from outside" myth. Kid has a knack for making plays, he's a very good defender, and he plays longer than his height. Add to that the fact that he already earned a spot ahead of Bogans last season, and you pretty much have the reason people talk him up. I'm perfectly fine if he doesn't make it on the Spurs, so long as the people who get spots or playing time ahead of him actually beat him out. Watching Bogans be unable to do much of anything through most of the season while Hairston sat on the bench was frustrating to anyone that was actually paying attention.

[Blackjack]

O_V is doing it right. :tu

[MaNu4Tres]

O_V is doing it right. :tu

:hat

[Gagnrath]

I didn't get to see alot of the first month or so of last season and no preseason O_V. I can tell you that by early December and after hairston wasn't making any noise in limited playing time, The no jumpshot is from watching, He hesitated to take many of them especially outside and bricked alot of those he did take.

[rr2418]

I just liked the fact that Hairston drives to the basket instead of falling in love with the 3pt shot, which he doesn't have anyway. By driving to the basket, if he plays quality minutes, he could end up at the line several times.

[DPG21920]

Dude blocks shots like crazy. Crazy sons.

[BackHome]

With us getting a first round SG I think that unless Hairston tears it up in the summer league this may have been his last season with us. We are set at the SG position our needs are SF and another big of which I think Gee has a chance at SF if not they are some pretty decent SF that are playing in Summer League we could look at...Milsap, Smith.etc.

[Mel_13]

http://i39.tinypic.com/103ub9c.gif

[Cane]

I didn't get to see alot of the first month or so of last season and no preseason O_V. I can tell you that by early December and after hairston wasn't making any noise in limited playing time, The no jumpshot is from watching, He hesitated to take many of them especially outside and bricked alot of those he did take.

Then you watched well, Hairston really didn't show that he had a jumper this past season in his limited NBA opportunities:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5786/malikl.jpg

Compare that to Temple who seems to have a corner 3 and seems to be willing to shoot the ball more, but also had more opportunities albeit both are still small sample sizes:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2906/templen.jpg

[Chomag]

Then you watched well, Hairston really didn't show that he had a jumper this past season in his limited NBA opportunities:

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5786/malikl.jpg

Compare that to Temple who seems to have a corner 3 and seems to be willing to shoot the ball more, but also had more opportunities albeit both are still small sample sizes:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2906/templen.jpg

Based on this, maybe hairston doesnt shoot the 3 as well but he has a much better mid game.

[Samr]

I thought we rooted for him because 1) he is an underdog and 2) his name is Malik (see: Rose)?

That's not right?

[Obstructed_View]

I didn't get to see alot of the first month or so of last season and no preseason O_V. I can tell you that by early December and after hairston wasn't making any noise in limited playing time, The no jumpshot is from watching, He hesitated to take many of them especially outside and bricked alot of those he did take.

He wasn't making much noise in limited playing time at any point because his time was limited. True, according to the graphic above he shot poorly from three point range. He got eleven attempts over the entire season and Temple got the last six games of the season where he got rotation minutes, over 20 MPG all but one game.

Hairston shot 43 percent from three point range in the D League. If you'd like, you can say he didn't shoot well with the minutes he was given and I'll agree with you, but please don't perpetuate the myth that he has no outside shot. If all you're looking at is his shooting, you're not paying attention to what the rest of us are.

[Dro210]

THC! :smokin

I really hope Malik sticks this year and gets a little more PT.

[HarlemHeat37]

BTW, I disagree that Hairston's peak is a 10th man..if he improved his jump shot over the Summer and shows that he has NBA 3-point range, he's easily a rotation player on most teams..obviously this isn't a guarantee though, so we'll see how he looks this Summer first..hopefully he'll show it for the Spurs..

[dbestpro]

BTW, I disagree that Hairston's peak is a 10th man..if he improved his jump shot over the Summer and shows that he has NBA 3-point range, he's easily a rotation player on most teams..obviously this isn't a guarantee though, so we'll see how he looks this Summer first..hopefully he'll show it for the Spurs..

Maybe a rotational player on a non playoff team. He has too many ifs to be successful for a team with championship aspirations.

[HarlemHeat37]

The shooting is the biggest "if", the only other one is ball-handling, but that is kind of irrelevant for a guy that won't really handle the ball..the shooting is the key, obviously, which is a pretty big deal..no guarantee that he'll develop it..

Role players all have serious flaws, that's why they're role players..they're obviously there to do certain things..

Just looking at the Finals alone..Artest(really good defender and a good rebounder, sucks at pretty much everything else, especially shooting), Fisher(obvious pros/cons), Famar/Brown(neither guy is even good at 1 thing, other than dunking) and Tony Allen(has the same flaws as Hairston does now) are all extremely flawed players that played rotation minutes for their teams..

[blizz]

he's better than QueerJ, and if you are really a spurs fan you would know hariston has the best d on this team, and everytime he was in the game he made plays

The BEST defensive player on the team? You're kidding right? :lol:lol Bruce Bowen wasn't exactly an offensive juggernaut, he got on the floor because he was our best defender. Don't you think if Hairston was our best defender pop would have played him a little more? What a dumbass.

[Dro210]

I agree with Harlem... I don't see why if Malik can show that he can knock down the 3 at a similar rate that he was in the D-League (I understand that's a big if, and the guy I'm about to mention was a league leader in 3pt% last year in the actual NBA, but...), what's Jared Dudley got over Malik at that point? They bring hustle/toughness/energy. Above average defender. Can attack the basket and draw and1s effectively with size and vert. He can crash the boards with his size and vert. He outleaps most anybody in the league, definitely outleaps Dudley. Dudley may have better handles, but Dudley's handles aren't really something I've really payed attention to, so I don't know.

Maybe I'm a little too hyped up on him, but I don't think so, I think he can be that kind of effective rotational player once he proves he can hit that 3 consistently, and gets some consistent minutes.



Edit: I like that Tony Allen comparison too. I see more hope for Malik's shot than Tony's tho.

[blizz]

Whats the fascination with dunking? Anyone 6'5" and up (and lots shorter) who plays basketball professionally can dunk. WTF??? That's stupid....."he can dunk really good"...."free him!"

[Dro210]

The BEST defensive player on the team? You're kidding right? :lol:lol Bruce Bowen wasn't exactly an offensive juggernaut, he got on the floor because he was our best defender. Don't you think if Hairston was our best defender pop would have played him a little more? What a dumbass.

So who would you say was the best defender on the team? Perimeter defender?

Even if he wasn't, he was real close, and had the potential to be hands down if he could get some consistant run.

Why do you think the people who actually know what they're talking about were so frustrated that Malik was in a suit or in Austin for most of the year, while Bogans was out there scrubin it up as the "defensive specialist", and Mason was brickin shots as a "sharp shooter".

[Dro210]

Nobody is pushing for his playing time based on "dunking".... but having a 40+ inch vert, and having the athleticism it takes to have a vert like that at 6'6 225 gives you a pretty nice advantage when attacking the basket, crashing the boards, altering shots, etc.

[BadOne]

It isn't the Malik threads that make me laugh, it's the "Ian Mahinmi" ones that just make me lose it sometimes.

Everything like "Free Ian" or "why can't Mahinmi play?" or the worst, when people start predicting line ups for next year and still list Mahinmi. :lol Man I tell ya.

The coaching staff sees nothing left in this guy. I have to trust that there is a good reason for that. Malik? He's been given more opportunities this last season because they obviously still see some potential. But I feel that this summer league will likely be make or break for Malik. He's got some serious compitition in James Anderson. We'll see how it goes. :toast

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't think some people realize the physical gifts that Hairston and Gee have..these guys both have 40 inch verticals, they're both very strong for wing players, they both weigh 220+ and are very quick for their size..

In the NBA, when you have physical tools like that, the key to your game(other than polishing the glaring flaws, obviously) is to find a niche, find a system/organization that can help you polish your game, and have great work ethic..we'll see the results coming up this season..if either one of those guys shows the ability to shoot from outside at the NBA level, it's a serious asset for the Spurs as a role player, an athletic wing the Spurs have been missing forever..you can't teach physical tools like that..

I also don't understand why some people keep saying the Spurs don't trust or like Hairston..Pop talked raved about him all year, Manu talked about him as a future starter for the Spurs, Sean Elliott loves his game, Tony mentioned his talent..

[itzsoweezee]

He's better than Bogans, Roger Mason, and Finley.

[jjktkk]

It's amazing how many people like to comment on Hairston who clearly never watched him play. I particularly love the "he can't shoot from outside" myth. Kid has a knack for making plays, he's a very good defender, and he plays longer than his height. Add to that the fact that he already earned a spot ahead of Bogans last season, and you pretty much have the reason people talk him up. I'm perfectly fine if he doesn't make it on the Spurs, so long as the people who get spots or playing time ahead of him actually beat him out. Watching Bogans be unable to do much of anything through most of the season while Hairston sat on the bench was frustrating to anyone that was actually paying attention.

He was hitting his outside jumper in the D-league, but struggled with his jumper once he joined the Spurs.

[benefactor]

As many have said, it's a pretty simple equation for Hairston. Adding a consistent jumper and some better ball handling and he is in...stay the same or regress and he's out.

There is one other thing that Hairston could add that I think could help him with both of those though...and that is the overall fluidity that exists in the NBA role player. Tony Allen is a great example. He's not a good shooter at all, but he makes the right decisions at the right time on offense, plays smart defense and just seems to move smoothly and comfortably within the flow of the game. Jared Dudley is another good example. He has started find that place of comfort as a role player. He doesn't think...he just plays. The game has "slowed down" for them, if you will.

Last year Hairston still had that rigid, uncomfortable feel about him that you see in a lot of players that are trying to make NBA squads. Some work their way out of it and begin to see the field and some don't and usually head overseas in search of basketball money elsewhere. Let's hope that things begin to "slow down" for Hairston and he starts find that place of comfort and flow within the game.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hes athletic, works his ass off and has gotten better every year. I do not see why its hard to figure out.

[Dro210]

There is one other thing that Hairston could add that I think could help him with both of those though...and that is the overall fluidity that exists in the NBA role player. Tony Allen is a great example. He's not a good shooter at all, but he makes the right decisions at the right time on offense, plays smart defense and just seems to move smoothly and comfortably within the flow of the game. Jared Dudley is another good example. He has started find that place of comfort as a role player. He doesn't think...he just plays. The game has "slowed down" for them, if you will.

Last year Hairston still had that rigid, uncomfortable feel about him that you see in a lot of players that are trying to make NBA squads. Some work their way out of it and begin to see the field and some don't and usually head overseas in search of basketball money elsewhere. Let's hope that things begin to "slow down" for Hairston and he starts find that place of comfort and flow within the game.

I agree... well said. Needs to find a little smooveness in his game. I think thats gotta come from some consistent pt tho.

[Birn]

Hairston and Gee will battle for the last roster spot.

[BackHome]

As many have said, it's a pretty simple equation for Hairston. Adding a consistent jumper and some better ball handling and he is in...stay the same or regress and he's out.

There is one other thing that Hairston could add that I think could help him with both of those though...and that is the overall fluidity that exists in the NBA role player. Tony Allen is a great example. He's not a good shooter at all, but he makes the right decisions at the right time on offense, plays smart defense and just seems to move smoothly and comfortably within the flow of the game. Jared Dudley is another good example. He has started find that place of comfort as a role player. He doesn't think...he just plays. The game has "slowed down" for them, if you will.

Last year Hairston still had that rigid, uncomfortable feel about him that you see in a lot of players that are trying to make NBA squads. Some work their way out of it and begin to see the field and some don't and usually head overseas in search of basketball money elsewhere. Let's hope that things begin to "slow down" for Hairston and he starts find that place of comfort and flow within the game.

Totally agree the same thing could be said for Ian they just don't look comfortable on the court. An example of someone who just had that NBA fill would be Temple the guy came in and he just had the look and fill of someone who has been playing for awhile.

I also wish the guy would show some emotion on the court I mean he show less emotion then Timmy. I think if your comming of the bench you gotta get your team motivated.....

[blizz]

Hairston sucks....get over it already. He's not making the team. It's the same thing that happened with that James guy a couple of years ago..."he's athletic" "he can dunk" "if he could only get playing time"...etc etc. Bullshit...he sucks...he doesn't get playing time because he can't do shit in practice. If you can't play in practice, how are you supposed to do it in a game?

[MI21]

If he can show he has a consistent jumpshot at the top level, I think he can make it.

If that does happen, he will get more respect and will be allowed to play defense a little more physically. I like his defensive potential.

No reason why he can't be a Mario Elie type player.

[bigdog]

I'm not sold on Hairston. His defense is good at times, and he'll have a dunk every now and then, but IMO, he's never really shown much else. He's undersized for a SF, has a very inconsistent jumpshot, and hasn't shown much improvement in his most needed areas of improvement. I like the guy, I mean, he's a hustle player that earns his time on the court, but I don't think he's all that most people on here make him up to be.

[AusSpursFan]

Hairston had a good summer league and was actually shooting the ball pretty well. Since then he has been inconsistent, however he still provides hops, hustle and defence and I would have chosen him over Mason or Bogans in any lineup last season.

[HankChinaski]

They guy can shoot. If he could only make those same shots DURING games he would have seen more minutes and moved up in the rotation. He hesitates too much with open looks and that hurt him more than anything else.

Now having said that. He hustles on Defense and looked great despite hiccups on fucking up rotations, played well on back door moves to the rim on offense and showed that he has athleticism to be in this league. His defense is what gave situational minutes from Pop to be out on the floor, but there is an obvious lack of faith on the offensive end.

He finds his stroke during summer league and into preseason he'll get a spot out on the floor with this roster.

[Obstructed_View]

He was hitting his outside jumper in the D-league, but struggled with his jumper once he joined the Spurs.

Yes, but he shouldn't have gone to the D league in the first place, as he outplayed Bogans for a rotation spot that he never got. When he was with the Spurs his minutes were scattered and inconsistent; hardly a situation that helps someone's shooting rhythm. And again, eleven attempts in the NBA is not enough to draw a conclusion.

[Obstructed_View]

Totally agree the same thing could be said for Ian they just don't look comfortable on the court. An example of someone who just had that NBA fill would be Temple the guy came in and he just had the look and fill of someone who has been playing for awhile.

Yet Hairston was a better player in every way in the D league, scoring twice as many points and shooting a far better percentage from the floor and from three point range. Temple got more consistent minutes than Mahinmi and Hairston combined simply because he happens to play a postition at which the Spurs were particularly thin with Parker injured.

[yavozerb]

Yes, but he shouldn't have gone to the D league in the first place, as he outplayed Bogans for a rotation spot that he never got. When he was with the Spurs his minutes were scattered and inconsistent; hardly a situation that helps someone's shooting rhythm. And again, eleven attempts in the NBA is not enough to draw a conclusion.

Agree that Hairston's minutes were scattered and few and far between. With that said when Hairston did play he did not make the most of these minutes passing up many open shots in the process. He seemed to play nervous and scared of making a mistakes while on the floor where players like Gee and Temple seemed to play much looser. Going into the season Hairston is competing with Gee for a roster spot and I would predict Gee will be the winner. Then again I say package Gee and Hairston for Wilson Chandler. This would free up more $ for the knicks (cutting both Gee and Hairston) and Chandler gives more depth at sf.

[Obstructed_View]

Agree that Hairston's minutes were scattered and few and far between. With that said when Hairston did play he did not make the most of these minutes passing up many open shots in the process. He seemed to play nervous and scared of making a mistakes while on the floor where players like Gee and Temple seemed to play much looser. Going into the season Hairston is competing with Gee for a roster spot and I would predict Gee will be the winner. Then again I say package Gee and Hairston for Wilson Chandler. This would free up more $ for the knicks (cutting both Gee and Hairston) and Chandler gives more depth at sf.

Hairston made the most of his minutes in the preseason and got nothing for it.

[yavozerb]

Hairston made the most of his minutes in the preseason and got nothing for it.

c'mon OV you should know preseason is simply preseason, nothing more...By now you should know that if Hairston was truly going to take away minutes he was going to have to play lights out in regular season games, which he did not with spot minutes. It should not come as a shocker to anyone who follows the spurs that POP will always give leg up to veterans, but that he would give munutes to a rook if that player is playing really well (ie temple)

[jjktkk]

For Guys like Hairston, there never will be the perfect scenario where he gets plenty of minutes each game to get into a rhythm. Fair, or unfair, Hairston needs to to produce when given the oppurtunity.

[ohmwrecker]

he's better than QueerJ, and if you are really a spurs fan you would know hariston has the best d on this team, and everytime he was in the game he made plays

No, he is not better than RJ. That's ridiculous. Even with all his faults and struggles, RJ is/was the best SF the Spurs have.

Hairston is an athlete. No doubt. His basketball skills are raw and unproven though. You can't unequivocally say his defense is better than Bogans because no one saw enough of it to make that judgment. Considering that both Bogans and Hairston (and Mason as well) were "injured" going into the playoffs and Popovich put Hairston on the IR, speaks volumes.
I'm not down on Hairston, but he doesn't automatically get a spot on this roster. He is going to have to earn it. It will undoubtedly come down to Malik or Alonzo, but neither one is a guarantee. Especially if the Spurs can score a FA wing.

[mingus]

I think his ceiling is Tony Allen. He might be more athletic than Allen at this stage. I think his defense and intensity is good enough to were he could play 25 mins in the right situation. his horrible offense is what will keep him from getting consistent minutes.

[Obstructed_View]

c'mon OV you should know preseason is simply preseason, nothing more...By now you should know that if Hairston was truly going to take away minutes he was going to have to play lights out in regular season games, which he did not with spot minutes. It should not come as a shocker to anyone who follows the spurs that POP will always give leg up to veterans, but that he would give munutes to a rook if that player is playing really well (ie temple)

Nobody plays lights out with spot minutes.

[Gagnrath]

No but some people preform well enough in those spot minutes to earn more playing time instead of being lackluster and disappearing. Its fightening how some people are now positing him with the opt out of jefferson as a starting SF option next year.... Scary.

[dbestpro]

Opportunity is a small window. You must take advantage of this window while it is open. Hairston has not been able to go through the window, while the window has been open. He gets a limited time to prove himself because there are hundreds of guys just as talented waiting for their shot, as well.

[yavozerb]

Temple seemed to play pretty well in spot minutes early and even took over the starting role from what I remember. Sure, injuries helped but temple earned more minutes by contributing not only on defense but also on offense.

[Obstructed_View]

No but some people preform well enough in those spot minutes to earn more playing time instead of being lackluster and disappearing. Its fightening how some people are now positing him with the opt out of jefferson as a starting SF option next year.... Scary.

Hairston earned the starting spot in preseason and it was given to Bogans. People who point to the 2 minutes he was given every third blowout as evidence that he can't play are simply fooling themselves.

[Obstructed_View]

Temple seemed to play pretty well in spot minutes early and even took over the starting role from what I remember. Sure, injuries helped but temple earned more minutes by contributing not only on defense but also on offense.

Ya think? Temple benefitted from injuries to the one position at which the Spurs have been horribly thin for several years. I'm pleased with the way the kid played, but Pop's crush on Finley and Bogans played a much larger part in Hairston's playing time than anyone's ability or performance.

[BackHome]

If you think we are going to win a championship with Hairston starting then you must be smoking some good shit! So he did great in D League so what it is what he does when he gets minutes on the Spurs that counts.

The one thing that I like about the Anderson signing is tha the Spurs are finally going to have to make a choice either Gee or Hairston at SF. Even at that I hope that the Spurs look at the new rookie class to see if they can find someone better because neither has the outside shooting I think we need.

[Mhak]

Stop this Fascination with Malik Hairston, Alonzo Gee and Temple.. Dude they are flat out scrubs... You guys are thinking what ifs.......... MOVE THE EFF ON!!!! Tired of this ish thinking they will be a somewhat help.

News Flash they are not!!!!!

[Gagnrath]

I'm not willing to say temple is a scrub.... he seems like as a second year player he's a capable enough sub getting 7 minutes at og and 8 or so at SG per night. I don't ever think he'll be an all star or even in the mention for it but I do think he's going to have a pretty good long career bouncing around the NBA as a useful combo guard to eat minutes and provide a steady hand to teams. I'm not as sold on Gee but he is essentially coming into his first full season in the NBA and don't see why he can't eventually hope to be a pretty decent back-up somewhere. Temple on the other hand has the poential to start games and see major minutes as a rotation player and back-up on teams with injuries.

[ChumpDumper]

You guys are thinking what ifs.What do you do during the offseason?

[Blackjack]

Malik Hairston fascinates me.

[J_Paco]

Stop this Fascination with Malik Hairston, Alonzo Gee and Temple.. Dude they are flat out scrubs... You guys are thinking what ifs.......... MOVE THE EFF ON!!!! Tired of this ish thinking they will be a somewhat help.

News Flash they are not!!!!!

Guess they should've never given Devin Brown, Stephen Jackson or Bruce Bowen a chance to perform with solid minutes and a defined role? None of those gambles paid off at all. Oh, and I guess Utah shouldn't have gambled on Wesley Matthews or Golden State should've never given either Kelenna Azubuike or Anthony Morrow a chance?

Not everyone that makes an impact, whether small or huge, in the NBA is a 1st round pick or coveted free-agent. Sometimes teams have to dig for those diamonds in the rough that can shine when given an opportunity. In his short NBA career Malik's chances have been sporadic. Pop must see something in him, and likely on the defensive side, to hold on to the guy going on three summer now. Hopefully Malik makes the best of what is likely his last opportunity as a Spur and "shows out" during Summer League and the pre-season.

[Obstructed_View]

How quickly we forget guys like Bruce Bowen, Jaren Jackson and Stephen Jackson (or even George Hill during Summer League). Or how quickly we forget the growing pains of guys like Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. I certainly hope the same people bitching about how old the Spurs are aren't the same ones pronouncing every draft pick a bust. Again, Malik outplayed Bogans in the preseason. Those of you that think the Spurs can't win with Hairston can't be making a case that Bogans was somehow a better solution, right?

Teams don't win without role players. Hairston and Mahinmi are better defenders than just about anyone that laced them up for the Spurs this last season. It's amazing how a few years of smallball can make people forget what put those banners in the rafters.

[Blackjack]

How quickly we forget guys like Bruce Bowen, Jaren Jackson and Stephen Jackson (or even George Hill during Summer League). Or how quickly we forget the growing pains of guys like Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. I certainly hope the same people bitching about how old the Spurs are aren't the same ones pronouncing every draft pick a bust. Again, Malik outplayed Bogans in the preseason. Those of you that think the Spurs can't win with Hairston can't be making a case that Bogans was somehow a better solution, right?

Teams don't win without role players. Hairston and Mahinmi are better defenders than just about anyone that laced them up for the Spurs this last season. It's amazing how a few years of smallball can make people forget what put those banners in the rafters.


http://cruciality.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/preach.jpg

Preach, Reverend O_V!!! :smokin

[AFBlue]

I like the guy well enough. It's clear the coaches didn't think he was ready, but they've had several opportunities to ditch him and he's still around...says something. He needs to work on becoming Bowen-esque and develop a corner 3pt shot, because he's already got the defense part down. I can definitely see a role for him if he does.

[FkLA]

I wasnt the biggest fan of him but Bogans wasnt handed his minutes. He actually played pretty well early in the season during that stretch where the Spurs couldnt win a road game/stay healthy to save their lives. Remember those Church of Bogans threads and people being in love with his 'tenacious' defense? I dont think Pop went into the season with the mindset that Bogans was going to be a 'centerpiece' especially after the way he played in the pre-season, Bogans actually played his way into the rotation. Although later in the season he played himself out of it and deserved to be yanked.

Thats the thing though, people see glimpses of Hairston like they did with Bogans early in the season and assume he can be a vital piece when in reality he's a 10-12th man just like Bogans. The guy is a below average player, with a horrible shot and handles. He wouldnt have done any better than Bogans.

[jag]

I genuinely like Hairston. He's athletic, he hustles and plays D. I really do want to see him get more floor time, and it's obvious hes been working on his deep game. But i feel like it went from guys wanting to see Hairston get more PT, to guys wanting RJ gone so Hairston can fill that role. He's not ready for that.

When a guy gets hyped to unrealistic levels and gains a weird cult following...it becomes very hard to listen to any takes from his disciples.

See: Ian Mahinmi, Pops Mensah Bonsu, James white.

[Blackjack]

I don't believe it's because they didn't think he was ready, it's because they didn't want to risk him not being ready. That's a significant difference.

The Spurs new they were going to be lacking continuity with its core group when they added the likes of RJ and 'Dyess, so they wanted as much stability and certainty surrounding them as possible. Their upside and potential was in their core coming together -- they weren't looking for upside and anything vaguely unknown or unfamiliar on the periphery.

Malik beat Bogans out for the job by any rational measure but he had no prior experience built up or any overwhelming, undeniable, perhaps even star talent, to simply just trust what they were seeing and go with it.

I don't buy Malik's lack of playing time having anything to do with what he's shown them or done in his time with the Spurs. Manu's on record as saying he could see Malik as the future small forward, RC's been on record as saying he's never seen a player improve as much from one summer to the next during their last training camp . . .

Are these the kind of people that go out of their way to praise and kiss ass of supposed "scrubs" (as some have liked to refer to)?

I swear, I think most of the hate is nothing more than backlash for the love he's been shown. To a degree, the same thing's been done to Hill -- nitpicking at weaknesses so much that they forget or underrate all the other aspects that make him the asset he is.

Hairston's a role player. He can play a role. A needed role. But in order to play that role, he's going to have to be entrusted with a role; or at least given the type of latitude a Bogans received to find his way and rhythm with the team instead of getting jerked out the moment there's a mistake.

Malik can shoot the ball, but he's not a pure shooter. He needs a rhythm. And while he's out there finding that rhythm, he does some other quality things that a team needs.

Things like: playing D, rebounding, drawing fouls and brining energy and toughness to the floor. Ya know, stuff every team needs? Ya know, like "glue guys" or ... what's that term?

Oh, yeah ... role player.

But I digress. :smokin

[jag]

I don't believe it's because they didn't think he was ready, it's because they didn't want to risk him not being ready. That's a significant difference.

The Spurs new they were going to be lacking continuity with its core group when they added the likes of RJ and 'Dyess, so they wanted as much stability and certainty surrounding them as possible. Their upside and potential was in their core coming together -- they weren't looking for upside and anything vaguely unknown or unfamiliar on the periphery.

Malik beat Bogans out for the job by any rational measure but he had no prior experience built up or any overwhelming, undeniable, perhaps even star talent, to simply just trust what they were seeing and go with it.

I don't buy Malik's lack of playing time having anything to do with what he's shown them or done in his time with the Spurs. Manu's on record as saying he could see Malik as the future small forward, RC's been on record as saying he's never seen a player improve as much from one summer to the next during their last training camp . . .

Are these the kind of people that go out of their way to praise and kiss ass of supposed "scrubs" (as some have liked to refer to)?

I swear, I think most of the hate is nothing more than backlash for the love he's been shown. To a degree, the same thing's been done to Hill -- nitpicking at weaknesses so much that they forget or underrate all the other aspects that make him the asset he is.

Hairston's a role player. He can play a role. A needed role. But in order to play that role, he's going to have to be entrusted with a role; or at least given the type of latitude a Bogans received to find his way and rhythm with the team instead of getting jerked out the moment there's a mistake.

Malik can shoot the ball, but he's not a pure shooter. He needs a rhythm. And while he's out there finding that rhythm, he does some other quality things that a team needs.

Things like: playing D, rebounding, drawing fouls and brining energy and toughness to the floor. Ya know, stuff every team needs? Ya know, like "glue guys" or ... what's that term?

Oh, yeah ... role player.

But I digress. :smokin

Yes, future. Possibly. There's a reason he's not the present and it's because he's not ready. There's a time to develop and incorporate a bunch of young guys into your roster...during one last push for a title, is not that time.

Hairston's "hate" isn't even directed at Hairston, it's directed at the people who won't stop pimping him like he's accomplished something. We get it. Just like we got it with the Mahinmi crowd. And this is coming from someone that really wanted the Spurs to keep, and play Ian. I agree that Malik is better than bogans, but when the Spurs were trying to work things out with RJ they didn't have time to let Hairston work out his kinks and find his magical rhythm. If the Spurs work Malik into the lineup this year i'll be happy...but i don't hope for it for the sake of Hairston. If it helps the spurs win, im all for it.

[Blackjack]

Yes, future. Possibly. There's a reason he's not the present and it's because he's not ready.

And you can say that with certainty 'cause? Are you suggesting the Spurs haven't benefited from a young player with a comparable standing in the league -- or maybe even any team in recent memory -- being in the rotation of a championship-caliber or elite team?


There's a time to develop and incorporate a bunch of young guys into your roster...during one last push for a title, is not that time.

Hairston is singular and when the alternative is Bogans, you role the dice with the person that outplayed him -- even if he doesn't have a few years of underwhelming play in the league in his back pocket.


Hairston's "hate" isn't even directed at Hairston, it's directed at the people who won't stop pimping him like he's accomplished something.


I swear, I think most of the hate is nothing more than backlash for the love he's been shown. To a degree, the same thing's been done to Hill -- nitpicking at weaknesses so much that they forget or underrate all the other aspects that make him the asset he is.


We get it.

Do you, and who's we?


Just like we got it with the Mahinmi crowd.

Nope, you definitely don't -- you had your mind made up before you even read my comments and were just waiting to tell another one of dem irrational sonbitches just how foolish they were.

Generalizations and salutations, brah.


And this is coming from someone that really wanted the Spurs to keep, and play Ian. I agree that Malik is better than bogans, but when the Spurs were trying to work things out with RJ they didn't have time to let Hairston work out his kinks and find his magical rhythm. If the Spurs work Malik into the lineup this year i'll be happy...but i don't hope for it for the sake of Hairston. If it helps the spurs win, im all for it.

Other then your feeling the need to throw "magical" in there (as if rhythm is some foreign matter in regards to basketball -- but I understand the level of annoyance you were already at), I don't have a problem with any of that. I disagree that they couldn't have chosen to go with Hairston over Bogans during that time -- the only certainty Bogans was giving them was that the opposition would outscore them when he was on the floor -- but I don't think you're crazy or irrational for thinking that.

I just disagree.

Get Lifted . . . :smokin

[Obstructed_View]

I wasnt the biggest fan of him but Bogans wasnt handed his minutes. He actually played pretty well early in the season during that stretch where the Spurs couldnt win a road game/stay healthy to save their lives. Remember those Church of Bogans threads and people being in love with his 'tenacious' defense? I dont think Pop went into the season with the mindset that Bogans was going to be a 'centerpiece' especially after the way he played in the pre-season, Bogans actually played his way into the rotation. Although later in the season he played himself out of it and deserved to be yanked.

Wow. You should go to the doctor and have your memory checked.

[silverblk mystix]

Hairston should have seen more floor time than;

1) Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

Temple should have seen more time than;

1) Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

Mahinmi should have seen more floor time than;

1) Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

if it is NOT readily apparent to your eyes now--it will be this coming season, as you will see these players show how much valuable they were/are OVER;

1)Bogans

2) Mason

3) Bonner

and I hope that Pop is held accountable-this time.

[FkLA]

Wow. You should go to the doctor and have your memory checked.

Do I really need to bump those Church of Bogans threads? People were in love with him for a while, especially his defense. He wasnt 'given' a rotation spot.

[Obstructed_View]

Do I really need to bump those Church of Bogans threads? People were in love with him for a while, especially his defense. He wasnt 'given' a rotation spot.

You mean thread. It was created on November 11 when he scored 13 points in a victory over Dallas. It died before his next game and wasn't bumped again until today. It's okay, you don't have to apologize.

He was "given" a rotation spot. People were "in love with him" because he was given the spot that Michael Finley was previously "given" for no reason, and they hoped he was an upgrade. He wasn't.

[TJastal]

Why the fascination? The guy put up huge all-around numbers in summer league and has hardly been given any regular minutes on the spurs.

Because fucking POop loves to play old farts instead of developing young players doesn't mean Hairston sucks.

[ceperez]

He was "given" a rotation spot. People were "in love with him" because he was given the spot that Michael Finley was previously "given" for no reason, and they hoped he was an upgrade. He wasn't.

Was this the same Michael Finley who was shooting over 40% this season from the 3 point line before he got injured?

[HarlemHeat37]

It was the same Michael Finley that shot 31% from 3s with the Spurs this season and posted up a historically bad PER of 6.5..

[Obstructed_View]

Was this the same Michael Finley who was shooting over 40% this season from the 3 point line before he got injured?

Oh how memories fade. It's the same Michael Finley that was so bad on defense and so inconsistent on offense that people thought Keith Bogans might be an upgrade. Again, he wasn't.

[FkLA]

You mean thread. It was created on November 11 when he scored 13 points in a victory over Dallas. It died before his next game and wasn't bumped again until today. It's okay, you don't have to apologize.

He was "given" a rotation spot. People were "in love with him" because he was given the spot that Michael Finley was previously "given" for no reason, and they hoped he was an upgrade. He wasn't.

With that specific name there was only one, sure. I was referring to several threads being started by the Church of Bogans not numerous threads being named the Church of Bogans, that would be pretty redundant.

The guy had a horrible pre-season, played garbage minutes in the opener, got a couple minutes the first winless roadtrip, played well, and was subsequently put into the starting line-up because our defense was horrible. He continued to be ok for a while, the hate didnt start till later in the season when it became apparent that he wasnt a starter. He definitely wasnt given a spot.

Like I said though I dont even like the guy much. He's a 10th-12th man at best. But so is Hairston, we're talking about scrubs here yet the Get Lifted crew acts like Hairston wouldve been a huge upgrade. Ever think that the same reason people fell in love with Bogans is the same reason you guys are in love with Hairston? Your were hoping that he couldve been an upgrade over Bogans when theyre both actually two very limited players.

[Obstructed_View]

Bogans was a journeyman vet who had one decent season as a pro and was a fair to poor NBA player. Hairston is a high draft pick of the Spurs who was the best player in the D league two seasons, made big plays every time he was on the floor against NBA talent and outplayed the hell out of Bogans during the preseason. One guy has upside, the other doesn't. One guy plays really good defense, the other doesn't. One guy is young and athletic, the other isn't.

Suggesting that Hairston "is a very limited player" is extaordinarily ignorant. After the way Goran Dragic facefucked the Spurs in the playoffs (a guy Suns fans constantly labeled a scrub while he was actually getting playing time), I don't really see how anyone would be stupid enough to just write off a draft pick, particularly one who has worked to improve and learn the system, and who actually seems to have a knack for rebounding and defense.

[DPG21920]

So can you explain why bogans was anymore ready tha Malik? Malik proved to be a better player.

[mattyc]

Malik Hairston!

[TD 21]

I don't know why some have a difficult time imagining Hairston being a quality role player in this league. Look at D. Jones, he was a fringe player in the league for years, then finally got an opportunity with a good team and showed he could play above average defense. He now has a four year contract (probably shouldn't, but still). Matthews is another example. Undrafted, ends up starting for a good team because he was an above average defender, who could keep the defense honest. He's now being pursued by various teams. T. Allen has been in and out of the rotation over the years, but showed that despite his obvious limitations, he could be a useful role player for a championship caliber team. He's also being pursued by various teams.

Right now, Hairston is a nobody and it would be an upset of epic proportions were he to become a star, but he's got potential similar to those players. The only difference is, while those guys got a chance, Hairston has yet to receive his.

If Jefferson leaves, then the Spurs will probably need to acquire two wings, but if he stays, I'd be fine with the Spurs forging a wing acquisition and allowing Hairston to have a chance to be a rotation player, in part due to the unappealing list of players that the Spurs could afford.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't know why some have a difficult time imagining Hairston being a quality role player in this league.
I don't know how fans of Bruce Bowen's team can label so many young players trash so soon and expect to be taken seriously.

[FkLA]

I don't know how fans of Bruce Bowen's team can label so many young players trash so soon and expect to be taken seriously.

For every Bruce Bowen there are hundreds of Romain Sato's, Linton Johnson III's, Ime Udoka's, or the numerous other guys that have come through and been labeled as Bowen's succesor. Let's not act like Bruce Bowens fall out of trees.

I dont dislike Hairston though, given the option I'd take him over Bogans this upcoming year as a 10-12th man. What I disagree with is people thinking he can be alot more than that. It just seems homerish to me, its the same type of fascination that has been shown towards guys like Mahinmi and Pops. Hairston's handles and shot are simply not on par with that of a rotation guy on a team that has championship aspirations. He's a freak athelete but he's still a limited player especially offensively.

[yavozerb]

I don't know how fans of Bruce Bowen's team can label so many young players trash so soon and expect to be taken seriously.

point taken...Lets have Hairston develop into a legit NBA player on someone else's dime and come back to the spurs in about 5 yrs.

[ohmwrecker]

Wow. You should go to the doctor and have your memory checked.

Can they do that?! Cool!

[Obstructed_View]

For every Bruce Bowen there are hundreds of Romain Sato's, Linton Johnson III's, Ime Udoka's, or the numerous other guys that have come through and been labeled as Bowen's succesor. Let's not act like Bruce Bowens fall out of trees.

I dont dislike Hairston though, given the option I'd take him over Bogans this upcoming year as a 10-12th man. What I disagree with is people thinking he can be alot more than that. It just seems homerish to me, its the same type of fascination that has been shown towards guys like Mahinmi and Pops. Hairston's handles and shot are simply not on par with that of a rotation guy on a team that has championship aspirations. He's a freak athelete but he's still a limited player especially offensively.

Bruce Bowens don't fall out of trees, but someone has to give one a chance in order for him to contribute. Every good player started out as a young player. It's simply too early for anyone to be making pronouncements about Hairston. There's a giganitc difference between my saying that he has more upside than Bogans and should get playing time and your making a flat statement that he's inadequate. Could he end up sucking? Yeah. How is it he's been with the team going on a third season and we don't know that yet. Why aren't we all in agreement that now's the time to find out? If he can't figure it out then I want him off the roster by Christmas.

I'm not sure why a Spurs fan wanting the Spurs to develop their own draft picks is any more "homerish" than rooting for the Spurs to win a championship is.

[Obstructed_View]

point taken...Lets have Hairston develop into a legit NBA player on someone else's dime and come back to the spurs in about 5 yrs.

You've been a Spurs fan for too long. It doesn't take seven years to figure out if a draft pick is a legitimate NBA player or not. It's a whole lot of fail that Hairston and Mahinmi have been with the team as long as they have and nobody knows anything for sure about them.

[yavozerb]

You've been a Spurs fan for too long. It doesn't take seven years to figure out if a draft pick is a legitimate NBA player or not. It's a whole lot of fail that Hairston and Mahinmi have been with the team as long as they have and nobody knows anything for sure about them.

Do you remember Bowen in the first 2 years of his career or the last 2? It takes many players much longer than 2 years to become legitimate NBA players. In a franchise such as the spurs you better hit the floor running and show something or you will be put on the back burner until you do. Do you really think Pop would have kept playing Hill, Parker, or Blair early in their careers if they did not contribute while on the floor? I know you are going to say they must have a chance to prove themselves and they do. Everyday in practice, the offseason, and spot regular season game minutes. Hairston in my opinion never gave any reason to warrant minutes over other players. His defense was good at times and spotty at other times, his offense was below average with his inability to hit (or take for that matter) a jumpshot, rebounding was his greatest asset, and he picked up fouls in bunches which would not allow much PT even if he was playing well. Mahinmi on the other hand hurt himself with injuries and was a foul machine in his 1st season. 2nd season was wasted by injuries and the 3rd season is where I would agree that his PT should have been higher.

[Obstructed_View]

Do you remember Bowen in the first 2 years of his career or the last 2? It takes many players much longer than 2 years to become legitimate NBA players. In a franchise such as the spurs you better hit the floor running and show something or you will be put on the back burner until you do. Do you really think Pop would have kept playing Hill, Parker, or Blair early in their careers if they did not contribute while on the floor? I know you are going to say they must have a chance to prove themselves and they do. Everyday in practice, the offseason, and spot regular season game minutes. Hairston in my opinion never gave any reason to warrant minutes over other players. His defense was good at times and spotty at other times, his offense was below average with his inability to hit (or take for that matter) a jumpshot, rebounding was his greatest asset, and he picked up fouls in bunches which would not allow much PT even if he was playing well. Mahinmi on the other hand hurt himself with injuries and was a foul machine in his 1st season. 2nd season was wasted by injuries and the 3rd season is where I would agree that his PT should have been higher.

Bowen was an extreme example; let's not act like all players take that long to develop.

Secondly, if you're operating on the statement that Hairston never gave any reason to warrant minutes over Keith Bogans, then we're at an impasse, because I'm prepared to point (once again) to Hairston's preseason last year and to Pop's love affair with certain vets that causes him to stunt the development of young players. There's a clear track record of that with this team.

If nothing else, we're in pseudo-agreement that Hairston either needs to be getting minutes or ne needs not to have a roster spot. I'd be satisfied if the team just did what so many fans are doing and pronounce him completely useless and try to fill his spot with someone that can actually help the team win.

[ohmwrecker]

I hope that if the Spurs do make a trade, that Hairston is included so I don't have to read how you guys think he is a NBA level starting SF anymore.

[Obstructed_View]

I hope that if the Spurs do make a trade, that Hairston is included so I don't have to read how you guys think he is a NBA level starting SF anymore.

On a team with Keith Bogans starting, he is.

[Blackjack]

I hope that if the Spurs do make a trade, that Hairston is included so I don't have to read how you guys think he is a NBA level starting SF anymore.

Don't get bent . . .


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1247/1449723070_269c1a3f59_o.gif

Get Lifted . . . :smokin

[ohmwrecker]

On a team with Keith Bogans starting, he is.

Well, that is thoroughly depressing.

[ohmwrecker]

Don't get bent . . .


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1247/1449723070_269c1a3f59_o.gif

Get Lifted . . . :smokin

When you put it that way . . . OK, sure!

[Blackjack]

When you put it that way . . . OK, sure!

Sometimes you just need the proper perspective. :smokin