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spursncowboys
06-29-2010, 10:53 PM
The 30-Year War in Afghanistan

By George Friedman

The Afghan War is the longest war in U.S. history. It began in 1980 and continues to rage. It began under Democrats but has been fought under both Republican and Democratic administrations, making it truly a bipartisan war. The conflict is an odd obsession of U.S. foreign policy, one that never goes away and never seems to end. As the resignation of Gen. Stanley McChrystal reminds us, the Afghan War is now in its fourth phase.

The Afghan War’s First Three Phases

The first phase of the Afghan War began with the Soviet invasion in December 1979, when the United States, along with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, organized and sustained Afghan resistance to the Soviets. This resistance was built around mujahideen, fighters motivated by Islam. Washington’s purpose had little to do with Afghanistan and everything to do with U.S.-Soviet competition. The United States wanted to block the Soviets from using Afghanistan as a base for further expansion and wanted to bog the Soviets down in a debilitating guerrilla war. The United States did not so much fight the war as facilitate it. The strategy worked. The Soviets were blocked and bogged down. This phase lasted until 1989, when Soviet troops were withdrawn.

The second phase lasted from 1989 until 2001. The forces the United States and its allies had trained and armed now fought each other in complex coalitions for control of Afghanistan. Though the United States did not take part in this war directly, it did not lose all interest in Afghanistan. Rather, it was prepared to exert its influence through allies, particularly Pakistan. Most important, it was prepared to accept that the Islamic fighters it had organized against the Soviets would govern Afghanistan. There were many factions, but with Pakistani support, a coalition called the Taliban took power in 1996. The Taliban in turn provided sanctuary for a group of international jihadists called al Qaeda, and this led to increased tensions with the Taliban following jihadist attacks on U.S. facilities abroad by al Qaeda.

The third phase began on Sept. 11, 2001, when al Qaeda launched attacks on the mainland United States. Given al Qaeda’s presence in Afghanistan, the United States launched operations designed to destroy or disrupt al Qaeda and dislodge the Taliban. The United States commenced operations barely 30 days after Sept. 11, which was not enough time to mount an invasion using U.S. troops as the primary instrument. Rather, the United States made arrangements with factions that were opposed to the Taliban (and defeated in the Afghan civil war). This included organizations such as the Northern Alliance, which had remained close to the Russians; Shiite groups in the west that were close to the Iranians and India; and other groups or subgroups in other regions. These groups supported the United States out of hostility to the Taliban and/or due to substantial bribes paid by the United States.

The overwhelming majority of ground forces opposing the Taliban in 2001 were Afghan. The United States did, however, insert special operations forces teams to work with these groups and to identify targets for U.S. airpower, the primary American contribution to the war. The use of U.S. B-52s against Taliban forces massed around cities in the north caused the Taliban to abandon any thought of resisting the Northern Alliance and others, even though the Taliban had defeated them in the civil war.

Unable to hold fixed positions against airstrikes, the Taliban withdrew from the cities and dispersed. The Taliban were not defeated, however; they merely declined to fight on U.S. terms. Instead, they redefined the war, preserving their forces and regrouping. The Taliban understood that the cities were not the key to Afghanistan. Instead, the countryside would ultimately provide control of the cities. From the Taliban point of view, the battle would be waged in the countryside, while the cities increasingly would be isolated.

The United States simply did not have sufficient force to identify, engage and destroy the Taliban as a whole. The United States did succeed in damaging and dislodging al Qaeda, with the jihadist group’s command cell becoming isolated in northwestern Pakistan. But as with the Taliban, the United States did not defeat al Qaeda because the United States lacked significant forces on the ground. Even so, al Qaeda prime, the original command cell, was no longer in a position to mount 9/11-style attacks.

During the Bush administration, U.S. goals for Afghanistan were modest. First, the Americans intended to keep al Qaeda bottled up and to impose as much damage as possible on the group. Second, they intended to establish an Afghan government, regardless of how ineffective it might be, to serve as a symbolic core. Third, they planned very limited operations against the Taliban, which had regrouped and increasingly controlled the countryside. The Bush administration was basically in a holding operation in Afghanistan. It accepted that U.S. forces were neither going to be able to impose a political solution on Afghanistan nor create a coalition large enough control the country. U.S. strategy was extremely modest under Bush: to harass al Qaeda from bases in Afghanistan, maintain control of cities and logistics routes, and accept the limits of U.S. interests and power.

The three phases of American involvement in Afghanistan had a common point: All three were heavily dependent on non-U.S. forces to do the heavy lifting. In the first phase, the mujahideen performed this task. In the second phase, the United States relied on Pakistan to manage Afghanistan’s civil war. In the third phase, especially in the beginning, the United States depended on Afghan forces to fight the Taliban. Later, when greater numbers of American and allied forces arrived, the United States had limited objectives beyond preserving the Afghan government and engaging al Qaeda wherever it might be found (and in any event, by 2003, Iraq had taken priority over Afghanistan). In no case did the Americans use their main force to achieve their goals.

The Fourth Phase of the Afghan War

The fourth phase of the war began in 2009, when U.S. President Barack Obama decided to pursue a more aggressive strategy in Afghanistan. Though the Bush administration had toyed with this idea, it was Obama who implemented it fully. During the 2008 election campaign, Obama asserted that he would pay greater attention to Afghanistan. The Obama administration began with the premise that while the Iraq War was a mistake, the Afghan War had to be prosecuted. It reasoned that unlike Iraq, which had a tenuous connection to al Qaeda at best, Afghanistan was the group’s original base. He argued that Afghanistan therefore should be the focus of U.S. military operations. In doing so, he shifted a strategy that had been in place for 30 years by making U.S. forces the main combatants in the war.

Though Obama’s goals were not altogether clear, they might be stated as follows:

Deny al Qaeda a base in Afghanistan.
Create an exit strategy from Afghanistan similar to the one in Iraq by creating the conditions for negotiating with the Taliban; make denying al Qaeda a base a condition for the resulting ruling coalition.
Begin withdrawal by 2011.
To do this, there would be three steps:

Increase the number and aggressiveness of U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
Create Afghan security forces under the current government to take over from the Americans.
Increase pressure on the Taliban by driving a wedge between them and the population and creating intra-insurgent rifts via effective counterinsurgency tactics.
In analyzing this strategy, there is an obvious issue: While al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan in 2001, Afghanistan is no longer its primary base of operations. The group has shifted to Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and other countries. As al Qaeda is thus not dependent on any one country for its operational base, denying it bases in Afghanistan does not address the reality of its dispersion. Securing Afghanistan, in other words, is no longer the solution to al Qaeda.

Obviously, Obama’s planners fully understood this. Therefore, sanctuary denial for al Qaeda had to be, at best, a secondary strategic goal. The primary strategic goal was to create an exit strategy for the United States based on a negotiated settlement with the Taliban and a resulting coalition government. The al Qaeda issue depended on this settlement, but could never be guaranteed. In fact, neither the long-term survival of a coalition government nor the Taliban policing al Qaeda could be guaranteed.

The exit of U.S. forces represents a bid to reinstate the American strategy of the past 30 years, namely, having Afghan forces reassume the primary burden of fighting. The creation of an Afghan military is not the key to this strategy. Afghans fight for their clans and ethnic groups. The United States is trying to invent a national army where no nation exists, a task that assumes the primary loyalty of Afghans will shift from their clans to a national government, an unlikely proposition.

The Real U.S. Strategy

Rather than trying to strengthen the Karzai government, the real strategy is to return to the historical principles of U.S. involvement in Afghanistan: alliance with indigenous forces. These indigenous forces would pursue strategies in the American interest for their own reasons, or because they are paid, and would be strong enough to stand up to the Taliban in a coalition. As CIA Director Leon Panetta put it this weekend, however, this is proving harder to do than expected.

The American strategy is, therefore, to maintain a sufficient force to shape the political evolution on the ground, and to use that force to motivate and intimidate while also using economic incentives to draw together a coalition in the countryside. Operations like those in Helmand province — where even Washington acknowledges that progress has been elusive and slower than anticipated — clearly are designed to try to draw regional forces into regional coalitions that eventually can enter a coalition with the Taliban without immediately being overwhelmed. If this strategy proceeds, the Taliban in theory will be spurred to negotiate out of concern that this process eventually could leave it marginalized.

There is an anomaly in this strategy, however. Where the United States previously had devolved operational responsibility to allied groups, or simply hunkered down, this strategy tries to return to devolved responsibilities by first surging U.S. operations. The fourth phase actually increases U.S. operational responsibility in order to reduce it.

From the grand strategic point of view, the United States needs to withdraw from Afghanistan, a landlocked country where U.S. forces are dependent on tortuous supply lines. Whatever Afghanistan’s vast mineral riches, mining them in the midst of war is not going to happen. More important, the United States is overcommitted in the region and lacks a strategic reserve of ground forces. Afghanistan ultimately is not strategically essential, and this is why the United States has not historically used its own forces there.

Obama’s attempt to return to that track after first increasing U.S. forces to set the stage for the political settlement that will allow a U.S. withdrawal is hampered by the need to begin terminating the operation by 2011 (although there is no fixed termination date). It will be difficult to draw coalition partners into local structures when the foundation — U.S. protection — is withdrawing. Strengthening local forces by 2011 will be difficult. Moreover, the Taliban’s motivation to enter into talks is limited by the early withdrawal. At the same time, with no ground combat strategic reserve, the United States is vulnerable elsewhere in the world, and the longer the Afghan drawdown takes, the more vulnerable it becomes (hence the 2011 deadline in Obama’s war plan).

In sum, this is the quandary inherent in the strategy: It is necessary to withdraw as early as possible, but early withdrawal undermines both coalition building and negotiations. The recruitment and use of indigenous Afghan forces must move extremely rapidly to hit the deadline (though officially on track quantitatively, there are serious questions about qualitative measures) — hence, the aggressive operations that have been mounted over recent months. But the correlation of forces is such that the United States probably will not be able to impose an acceptable political reality in the time frame available. Thus, Afghan President Hamid Karzai is said to be opening channels directly to the Taliban, while the Pakistanis are increasing their presence. Where a vacuum is created, regardless of how much activity there is, someone will fill it.

Therefore, the problem is to define how important Afghanistan is to American global strategy, bearing in mind that the forces absorbed in Iraq and Afghanistan have left the United States vulnerable elsewhere in the world. The current strategy defines the Islamic world as the focus of all U.S. military attention. But the world has rarely been so considerate as to wait until the United States is finished with one war before starting another. Though unknowns remain unknowable, a principle of warfare is to never commit all of your reserves in a battle — one should always maintain a reserve for the unexpected. Strategically, it is imperative that the United States begin to free up forces and re-establish its ground reserves.

Given the time frame the Obama administration’s grand strategy imposes, and given the capabilities of the Taliban, it is difficult to see how it will all work out. But the ultimate question is about the American obsession with Afghanistan. For 30 years, the United States has been involved in a country that is virtually inaccessible for the United States. Washington has allied itself with radical Islamists, fought against radical Islamists or tried to negotiate with radical Islamists. What the United States has never tried to do is impose a political solution through the direct application of American force. This is a new and radically different phase of America’s Afghan obsession. The questions are whether it will work and whether it is even worth it.

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100628_30_year_war_afghanistan?utm_source=GWeekl y&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=100629&utm_content=readmore&elq=02a53c1ddfdc4bce92ea01e0d0ca792a

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 02:23 AM
Wilkerson was saying tonight on Olberman that it took 35 years of occupying South Korea to get SK past a military dictatorship to a true, stable democracy, and there was NO INSURGENCY there.

It looks like McLiar being OK with 100 years in Afghanistan is a realistic estimate, but McLiar wil be dead and gone and won't have to pay for it.

Wild Cobra
06-30-2010, 02:25 AM
Wilkerson was saying tonight on Olberman that it took 35 years of occupying South Korea to get SK past a military dictatorship to a true, stable democracy, and there was NO INSURGENCY there.

It looks like McLiar being OK with 100 years in Afghanistan is a realistic estimate, but McLiar wil be dead and gone and won't have to pay for it.
S. Korea has been it's own running democracy for decades now. It didn't take us still being there to complete the task. It's long done.

Why do you listen to programs like Olberman?

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 03:22 AM
US occupied South Korea starting about 1950. South Korea was a military dictatorship until the late 1980s. GFY

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 03:31 AM
Petraeus' picture of COIN in Afghanistan:


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Components/Photo/2009/December/091202/091203-engel-big-9a.jpg



YES SIR, YOU'RE A FUCKING FOOL, SIR!

ChumpDumper
06-30-2010, 04:15 AM
So we shouldn't have invaded Iraq.

OK.

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 04:30 AM
"we shouldn't have invaded Iraq"

Even a right-wing nutjob like Peggy Noonan is backing away from her history of cheerleading the Iraq-for-oil invasion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-boehlert/peggy-noonans-shameless-a_b_629060.html

Petraeus is a fraud, as his COIN bogus rep, propagandized by Repugs and neo-c*nts, is built on the Iraq surge which ramped up US and Iraqi monthly casualties to the highest of the war but well after they had been declining for totally different, earlier reasons.

The US and the world, and Iraq, would be a much better place if Saddam were still in power and held down by US surveillance and flights, and the occasional bombing of his palaces. :)

The Reckoning
06-30-2010, 05:43 AM
US occupied South Korea starting about 1950. South Korea was a military dictatorship until the late 1980s. GFY


he did say decades. welcome to 2010.

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 07:59 AM
Nearly 40 years of US occupation and subsidies before SK got a democracy.

GFY

George Gervin's Afro
06-30-2010, 08:11 AM
Why do you listen to programs on Fox?

Stringer_Bell
06-30-2010, 02:25 PM
Even a right-wing nutjob like Peggy Noonan is backing away from her history of cheerleading the Iraq-for-oil invasion.

I can't express how deeply I want to slap the people that call the Iraq War a "war for oil." We didn't get any oil, we haven't gotten shit from them but body bags and global shit-talking.

WAR FOR OIL? WHERE IS THE FUCKING OIL!?!?! :bang

Wild Cobra
06-30-2010, 02:31 PM
Nearly 40 years of US occupation and subsidies before SK got a democracy.

GFY
Far less than that, maybe 25 years at the most.

Still, would you prefer they didn't become a valuable member of the world?

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 03:11 PM
"We didn't get any oil"

dubya and dickhead fucked that up, too, didn't they?

US oilcos do have some contracts now that would have gone to French, Russian, Chinese companies had Saddam been left in power and excluding US and UK from all contracts.

Be SLAPPED, bitch:

dubya and dickhead invaded IRAQ-FOR-OIL

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 03:12 PM
(1987 SK democracy) - (1950 US war) = 37 years

Stringer_Bell
06-30-2010, 03:17 PM
"We didn't get any oil"

dubya and dickhead fucked that up, too, didn't they?

US oilcos do have some contracts now that would have gone to French, Russian, Chinese companies had Saddam been left in power and excluding US and UK from all contracts.

Be SLAPPED, bitch:

dubya and dickhead invaded IRAQ-FOR-OIL

Um, obviously we didn't get enough to make any of it worth a damn. Russia and China got the best shit (or kept it, whatever).

DarrinS
06-30-2010, 03:19 PM
Is it just me, or is boutons a rather unpleasant douche?

Wild Cobra
06-30-2010, 03:20 PM
(1987 SK democracy) - (1950 US war) = 37 years
Back that up please.

I was stationed there from '82 to '84. Not how I remember it.

boutons_deux
06-30-2010, 04:00 PM
" General Park Chung-hee's military coup (the "5-16 coup d'état") against the weak and ineffectual government the next year. Park took over as president until his assassination in 1979, overseeing rapid export-led economic growth as well as severe political repression. Park was heavily criticised as a ruthless military dictator, although the Korean economy developed significantly during his tenure.

The years after Park's assassination were marked again by considerable political turmoil as the previously repressed opposition leaders all campaigned to run for president in the sudden political void. In 1980 there was another coup d'état by General Chun Doo-hwan against the transitional government of Choi Gyu Ha, the interim president and a former prime minister under Park. Chun assumed the presidency. His seizure of power triggered nationwide protests demanding democracy, in particular in the city of Gwangju, in Jeollanam-do, where Chun sent special forces to violently suppress the Gwangju Democratization Movement.

Chun and his government held Korea under a despotic rule until 1987, when Park Jong Chul—a student attending Seoul National University—was tortured to death. On 10 June, the Catholic Priests' Association for Justice revealed Park's torture, igniting huge demonstrations around the country. Eventually, Chun's party, the Democratic Justice Party, and its leader, Roh Tae-woo announced the June 29th Declaration, which included the direct election of the president. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea

and


http://hubpages.com/hub/South-Korea-Under-Dictatorship


From 1987, no more military dictatorships, coups, etc.

You were wrapped up in the typical occupier's/tourist cocoon, detached from Korean affairs.

spursncowboys
06-30-2010, 04:02 PM
Though Obama’s goals were not altogether clear, they might be stated as follows:

Deny al Qaeda a base in Afghanistan.
Create an exit strategy from Afghanistan similar to the one in Iraq by creating the conditions for negotiating with the Taliban; make denying al Qaeda a base a condition for the resulting ruling coalition.
Begin withdrawal by 2011.
To do this, there would be three steps:

Increase the number and aggressiveness of U.S. forces in Afghanistan.
Create Afghan security forces under the current government to take over from the Americans.
Increase pressure on the Taliban by driving a wedge between them and the population and creating intra-insurgent rifts via effective counterinsurgency tactics.
In analyzing this strategy, there is an obvious issue: While al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan in 2001, Afghanistan is no longer its primary base of operations. The group has shifted to Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and other countries. As al Qaeda is thus not dependent on any one country for its operational base, denying it bases in Afghanistan does not address the reality of its dispersion. Securing Afghanistan, in other words, is no longer the solution to al Qaeda.

Wild Cobra
06-30-2010, 04:07 PM
" General Park Chung-hee's military coup (the "5-16 coup d'état") against the weak and ineffectual government the next year. Park took over as president until his assassination in 1979, overseeing rapid export-led economic growth as well as severe political repression. Park was heavily criticised as a ruthless military dictator, although the Korean economy developed significantly during his tenure.

The years after Park's assassination were marked again by considerable political turmoil as the previously repressed opposition leaders all campaigned to run for president in the sudden political void. In 1980 there was another coup d'état by General Chun Doo-hwan against the transitional government of Choi Gyu Ha, the interim president and a former prime minister under Park. Chun assumed the presidency. His seizure of power triggered nationwide protests demanding democracy, in particular in the city of Gwangju, in Jeollanam-do, where Chun sent special forces to violently suppress the Gwangju Democratization Movement.

Chun and his government held Korea under a despotic rule until 1987, when Park Jong Chul—a student attending Seoul National University—was tortured to death. On 10 June, the Catholic Priests' Association for Justice revealed Park's torture, igniting huge demonstrations around the country. Eventually, Chun's party, the Democratic Justice Party, and its leader, Roh Tae-woo announced the June 29th Declaration, which included the direct election of the president. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korea

and


http://hubpages.com/hub/South-Korea-Under-Dictatorship


From 1987, no more military dictatorships, coups, etc.

You were wrapped up in the typical occupier's/tourist cocoon, detached from Korean affairs.
Not everything you read in Wiki is factual. There were in fact articles saying such things, that doesn't make it true.

Again, I lived there from '82 to '84. My ex-wife is a citizen of S. Korea, and would disagree with you.

Sure, it was a bumpy road, but there were elections also. Though the primary power changed from the prime Minister, to the President, and later to a system closer to ours, it was not as you make it sound.

My God. President Obama and the democrats aspire to create a system like their past, and you're calling that bad?

Nbadan
07-01-2010, 01:46 AM
Sure, it was a bumpy road, but there were elections also. Though the primary power changed from the prime Minister, to the President, and later to a system closer to ours, it was not as you make it sound.

Just what Iraq needs a system like ours filled with cronyism, fraud and outright theft..Iraq should be making billions of their oil by now, but you couldn't tell by the condition of the Iraqi people..the only thing we have succeeded in in Iraq is establishing a monkey-democracy and labeled it progress because the multi-national corporations can now legally rob the Iraqi people of its greatest asset instead of Saddam Hussein...

Nbadan
07-01-2010, 01:52 AM
Um, obviously we didn't get enough to make any of it worth a damn. Russia and China got the best shit (or kept it, whatever).

The multi-nationals don't give a fuck about your pocketbook...if they had flooded the US market with Iraqi oil, they cut their profits..or, they could sell it to Europe, China or India for a huge profit and still collect their money in the U.S too...

Winehole23
05-21-2012, 07:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/a-logistics-miracle/2011/07/02/AGZDwnvH_graphic.html

spursncowboys
05-21-2012, 07:18 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/a-logistics-miracle/2011/07/02/AGZDwnvH_graphic.html

It's funny how every high ranking officer knew there was a huge chance our cargo would be stolen off the ports in Pakistan.

clambake
05-21-2012, 07:37 PM
It's funny how every high ranking officer knew there was a huge chance our cargo would be stolen off the ports in Pakistan.

what?

Marcus Bryant
05-21-2012, 10:43 PM
The 70-Year War. Perhaps 95, though there was a reduction of sorts after WWI.

Modern Americans know nothing other than to be on a permanent war footing. This large standing army is relatively new in the American experience, though unfortunately not uncommon. The sun does not set on the American Empire.

Revisionist history places this as firmly in keeping with the American tradition, much as the Founding Fathers were to a man devout Southern Baptists.

The central state with enough military power to dominate any nation on Earth was precisely what the Founders feared. The American character has been irreparably harmed by this, local life regimented to an unthinkable extent.

Winehole23
08-14-2012, 08:37 AM
How’s this for a conspiracy of silence? With less than three months to go until Election Day, President Barack Obama and Mitt Romney have successfully avoided saying almost anything about America’s war in Afghanistan. Remember that war? You will at some point, however little the two candidates talk about it.


You can make your own guesses about why the candidates have said so little about Afghanistan—their positions are virtually identical, the economy is more important, etc. My own guess: neither of them knows what to do about the place. In a mere twenty-eight months, the United States is scheduled to stop fighting, and every day brings new evidence that the Afghan state that is supposed to take over is a failing, decrepit enterprise.


Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/08/have-obama-and-romney-forgotten-afghanistan.html#ixzz23WkhhwwU

Clipper Nation
08-14-2012, 08:47 AM
Easy... pull out of Afghanistan, and STOP the unconstitutional warmongering, tbh... it only makes things worse, it ruins our reputation abroad, it's prohibitively expensive, and we're losing our liberties....

It's funny how neocons love to bring up communism to this day but conveniently forget to mention that a failed, protracted war in Afghanistan was a major reason for the USSR's collapse....

boutons_deux
08-14-2012, 08:57 AM
"failed, protracted war in Afghanistan was a major reason for the USSR's collapse."

plus the collapse in oil prices in the 80s, which was USSR's only source of hard currency.

the VRWC myth, repeated this weekend by Gingrich, that St Ronnie brought down the USSR single-handedly is a huge AND typical Repug lie.