For all the turds.............................

[smackdaddy11]

who are on the misguided path of Islam is peaceful.

Here was a link provided to me about how not all muslims are terrorists.


http://www.freemuslims.org/

The were having this march against terrorism on Saturday, May 14th. A chunk of anti-terror Muslims were to appear.

http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2005/05/march_against_t_1.html

:lol

I'm glad a couple dozen are on our side. That makes me feel sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better.

Wake it up, peeps.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

There are many "Christians" who love to hate and kill too. :rolleyes

[The Ressurrected One]

There are many "Christians" who love to hate and kill too. :rolleyes
It's a doctrinal difference JM.

The Koran advocates murder of infidels that refuse to convert or that defame Islam. New Testament Christianity (no matter what the "professed adherants" do) does not.

You can see the violent actions of Islamic extremists and point to a section of the Koran that justifies their actions. There are no such justifications for Christian extremists (such as those who murder abortion doctors, conduct inquisitions, etc...).

There just isn't scriptural support for violence in a Christian life. In Islam, it abounds.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

It's a doctrinal difference JM.

The Koran advocates murder of infidels that refuse to convert or that defame Islam. New Testament Christianity (no matter what the "professed adherants" do) does not.

You can see the violent actions of Islamic extremists and point to a section of the Koran that justifies their actions. There are no such justifications for Christian extremists (such as those who murder abortion doctors, conduct inquisitions, etc...).

There just isn't scriptural support for violence in a Christian life. In Islam, it abounds.

I'm not talking about scriptural support for violence for Christians.
Bush didn't need it to start his war.

[smackdaddy11]

I'm not talking about scriptural support for violence for Christians.
Bush didn't need it to start his war.

Stay on topic, dipshit.

I'm still waiting for all the flower tossers in the previous thread to spin this.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Stay on topic, dipshit.

I'm still waiting for all the flower tossers in the previous thread to spin this.

I was responding to the previous post dipwad.

No need to spin wiseone. Plenty of evidence of violence in the name of Christianity. :rolleyes

[smackdaddy11]

No need to spin wiseone. Plenty of evidence of violence in the name of Christianity

THAT IS NOT THE TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!


Let me try again for the slow one. There was a thread that most Muslims are not peaceful. I said they aren't. During the thread a poster sent me to the free muslim site. He pointed out the march. I posted the massive turnout of the peaceful Muslims. There ain't any. This is the topic, flower tosser.

[The Ressurrected One]

I'm not talking about scriptural support for violence for Christians.
Bush didn't need it to start his war.
You're right. Saddam Hussein provided all the justification needed.

[scott]

There just isn't scriptural support for violence in a Christian life.

Now that's funny.

[scott]

I'll offer a challenge. For every instance of the Koran "promoting" violence you can show me, I will match you with a quote from the Bible.

[The Ressurrected One]

I'll offer a challenge. For every instance of the Koran "promoting" violence you can show me, I will match you with a quote from the Bible.
Only if it's from the New Testament. Deal?

[Eric]

Funny, you are quick enough to use the old testament to bash fags and lezbos. You can't opt out of it now, hypocrite. Do you run around with your bible having the old testament ripped out?

[Eric]

All religions are violent and controlling. They just go thru cycles of how violent and how controlling.

[The Ressurrected One]

Funny, you are quick enough to use the old testament to bash fags and lezbos. You can't opt out of it now, hypocrite.
How so? Name one Old Testament passage I've used to "bash fags and lezbos." And, by the way, don't homosexuals consider those derisive terms? So, who's doing the bashing?

Actually, most specific scripture regarding homosexuality as an abnormal behavior and sinful is found in the New Testament. Frankly, I can't think of one mention from the Old Testament -- off the top of my head, anyway.

[Eric]

Leviticus. It's there along with the prohibitions against lobster and cheeseburgers.

[The Ressurrected One]

Leviticus.
I don't believe I've ever quoted Leviticus in this forum...give us a lesson, will you?

Further, it appears you need to learn the difference between Judaism's use of the Pentateuch (which includes Leviticus) and New Testament theologic Christianity.

[Eric]

"You" can be a generic term of address to the relig-oids on the board. Lighten up, Yonivore. It's not all about you, man.

You still didn't answer about your bible. Does it only contain the New testament? If so, scott should be allowed to select only certain parts of the Quran for you to peruse.

[The Ressurrected One]

"You" can be a generic term of address to the relig-oids on the board. Lighten up, Yonivore. It's not all about you, man.
Well, since your "hypocrite" post...

Funny, you are quick enough to use the old testament to bash fags and lezbos. You can't opt out of it now, hypocrite. Do you run around with your bible having the old testament ripped out?
...followed mine, I assumed you were addressing me specifically. It seemed a fairly specific response to my post. Maybe not...

You still didn't answer about your bible. Does it only contain the New testament? If so, scott should be allowed to select only certain parts of the Quran for you to peruse.
Reformed faiths believe the Old Testament exists as a historical record of God's influence on earth. More important to Christians, it contains the prophecies fulfilled by the birth, life, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

So, if you don't understand the dynamics of New Testament theology, I'd say your out of your element. The Koran, on the other hand, was written at once -- through the prophet Mohammed and, to my knowledge, represents from the beginning to the end the will of Allah.

The Bible is a collection of books written over thousands of years...Old Testament before Christ and the New Testament after Christ...it is Christians that follow the teachings of the New Testament where the apostles and disciples wrote of Jesus Christ.

Read The Book of Romans for a quick course in Christianity...it might help you. Let me know if I can answer any more questions for you.

[Eric]

You're still picking and chosing, which I think is OK, an ecclesiastical cafeteria plan as the Catholic heirarchy would say. Don't you think Muslims are capable of the same thing? Sure, there are sects like the Wahabi who are Quran literalists, just as there are biblical literalists amongst christians. Then there are the Sufis, who are a pretty different branch of Islam.

You resist my attempts to put you into a box with other Christians, yet support Idiot11's contention that there is only one flavor or box for Islam, the violent fuckers. Strange, and not very consistant.

[The Ressurrected One]

You're still picking and chosing, which I think is OK, an ecclesiastical cafeteria plan as the Catholic heirarchy would say. Don't you think Muslims are capable of the same thing? Sure, there are sects like the Wahabi who are Quran literalists, just as there are biblical literalists amongst christians. Then there are the Sufis, who are a pretty different branch of Islam.
No, I'm trying to explain the various intepretations of the scriptures...from Old Testament to the Gospels.

You resist my attempts to put you into a box with other Christians, yet support Idiot11's contention that there is only one flavor or box for Islam, the violent fuckers. Strange, and not very consistant.
Obviously there are more than one "flavor" of Muslim. But, if you read the Koran, it would seem to me (as it does to the Islamic extremists) the non-violent Muslims are the ones not adhering to the Koran...

The difference in the two documents are the span over which they were written. Mohammed wrote the entire Koran. The Bible had many authors over thousands of years.

Mohammed was a violent prophet.

Most of the authors of the New Testament were anything but.

[Eric]

Obviously there are more than one "flavor" of Muslim. But, if you read the Koran, it would seem to me (as it does to the Islamic extremists) the non-violent Muslims are the ones not adhering to the Koran...

It still comes down to literalists versus interpreters. Both books have passages that advocate violence, slavery, etc. Some people of either faith come to the conclusion that those are not good things. According to the logic above, you're not "adhering to the Bible", since you chose not to literally follow everything in the Old Testament. Since you also acknowledge that there are multiple flavors of Islam, it's hard to understand why you appear to support Idiot11 and his crusade against the Muslims.

[The Ressurrected One]

It still comes down to literalists versus interpreters. Both books have passages that advocate violence, slavery, etc. Some people of either faith come to the conclusion that those are not good things. According to the logic above, you're not "adhering to the Bible", since you chose not to literally follow everything in the Old Testament. Since you also acknowledge that there are multiple flavors of Islam, it's hard to understand why you appear to support Idiot11 and his crusade against the Muslims.
I don't know Idiot11...and, regarding your first two points, I give up...your ignorance wins.

But, two things stand out regarding the current state of the Muslim faith.

One. There are a whole lot of them across the globe killing innocent men, women, and children -- in the name of Allah.

Two. Those that aren't, aren't speaking out that adamantly against the actions of those that are. That, to me, is a failing of the whole faith.

I can see where the whole Muslim faith would get a black eye and I'm not on a crusade against anyone.

[Eric]

One. There are a whole lot of them across the globe killing innocent men, women, and children -- in the name of Allah.
I disagree. Out of 350 Million, I'd say it was a tiny fraction of a percent involved in any of this. One thing about any kind of terrorism is that it doesn't take many people to accomplish your goals.


Two. Those that aren't, aren't speaking out that adamantly against the actions of those that are. That, to me, is a failing of the whole faith.


I agree with this. However, many of the infuriating things that were quoted from Muslims were hauntingly close to quotes from Fudamentalist Christians regarding abortion clinic bombings (Christian terrorism), things like "I don't support it, but I can understand why they do it." Hello, you just supported them.

[E20]

One. There are a whole lot of them across the globe killing innocent men, women, and children
Where would this be?

[The Ressurrected One]

Where would this be?
I believe the words "Allah Akbar" have been heard on the voice recorders of at least one of the planes flown into the twin towers...as well as on many videotaped murders delivered to Al Jazeera from exotic places all over the Middle East and Northern Africa. Indonesia and the Phillipines have experienced terrorists acts from the "Allah Akbarians".

Don't be stupid.

[E20]

I think they're called terrorists.

Don't be stupid.

[The Ressurrected One]

I disagree. Out of 350 Million, I'd say it was a tiny fraction of a percent involved in any of this. One thing about any kind of terrorism is that it doesn't take many people to accomplish your goals.
Well, point two makes it possible for this small percentage to rule in places like pre-liberated Afghanistan and Iran and continue to produce more hatred.

I agree with this. However, many of the infuriating things that were quoted from Muslims were hauntingly close to quotes from Fudamentalist Christians regarding abortion clinic bombings (Christian terrorism), things like "I don't support it, but I can understand why they do it." Hello, you just supported them.
Over the past 5 decades, just how many abortion doctors have been killed and just how many abortion clinics have been bombed?

Then, tell me how many went unprosecuted by the law?

The point is, Christian fundamentalists don't run the ship and, besides, the number of non-fundi Christians, in this country, who would justify or turn a blind eye to such an atrocity is -- proportionally -- much smaller than the number of "ordinary, every day, non-violent" Muslims turning a blind eye to the atrocities of their extremists. In fact, I'd say their numbers just about mirror the number of fundis that would commit such acts.

No contest.

[The Ressurrected One]

I think they're called terrorists.

Don't be stupid.
I see. And, just how many identified global terrorists over the past 40 years have not been Islamic extremists?

[E20]

WTF are you talking about? Most Muslim countries are 3rd world and the people don't even have a voice and usually an oligarchy repersents the whole country.

[The Ressurrected One]

WTF are you talking about? Most Muslim countries are 3rd world and the people don't even have a voice and usually an oligarchy repersents the whole country.
America has a large Muslim contingent. So does Europe and non-third world Asia, and Southeast Asia.

I don't hear much coming from those Muslims...

What's keeping your local mosque from condemning the actions of these barbarians acting in the name of their religion?

[E20]

What do you want them to say they condemn the acts of terrorism done to the religon? If so they already have.

[The Ressurrected One]

What do you want them to say they condemn the acts of terrorism done to the religon? If so they already have.
Really? When?

[E20]

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Muslims+condemn+terrorism&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8

[E20]

War accroding to the Quran:
http://www.aiipowmia.com/iraq/quranpwrights.html

[dcole50]

terrorists use islam as an excuse. but, sure, go ahead and feel that your religion is superior if you'd like.

[Nbadan]

America has a large Muslim contingent. So does Europe and non-third world Asia, and Southeast Asia.

I don't hear much coming from those Muslims...

What's keeping your local mosque from condemning the actions of these barbarians acting in the name of their religion?

:rolleyes

These radicals attacking Western targets aren't just driven by religious hate as TRO would like us to believe. Almost all have been repressed in their homeland by Oligarchies propped up with foreign aid at the behest of the majority - much of this aid from the U.S. Wahabi schools, usually financed by the various Oligarchies throughout the Middle East, focus on blaming the West for their own governmental short-comings to help stay in power.

Islam is a peaceful religion, but it has been abused by the Oligarchs, and Islamic fundamentalist who know that religious zealots can be easily manipulated.

[Duff McCartney]

The point is, Christian fundamentalists don't run the ship

That's hilarious...you're willing to blame the majority on the actions of the few. Yet you can't even look at yourself.

Religion is a joke..it always has been and always will be.

The way you try to make excuses for your religion and condem another is proving my point.

[mookie2001]

well naturally not all muslims are terrorist
just like not all republicans drive Tahoes

[Extra Stout]

There are Muslims all over the world condemning terrorism on a continuous basis... that doesn't mean that American media is going to fall all over itself reporting that. Go request a fatwa from any respected Islamic scholar, and see for yourself.

And the mainstream interpretation of the Quran is that jihad is solely for defensive purposes, and that the bloody conquests of Mohammed and his followers were a special dispensation from Allah in the initial spread of Islam. Muslims today are called to convert through persuasion and example, not the sword.

Islam does not go as far as Christianity, at least in teaching anyway, with regard to the treatment of unbelievers. Islam teaches that while Jews and Christians are deserving of protection, they are not to be treated with the same respect as fellow Muslims. Others, termed "polytheists," even though they coulds be atheists or anything else, are accorded no respect whatsoever.

In the real world, how Muslims treat people just depends. Iraqi Christians are having a hard time because Saddam Hussein protected them, so now they are a target. Iran is more tolerant of the church than one might expect, and regards several old Persian churches as cultural tresures. The Syrians as we all know have a record of oppression against the Maronites in Lebanon. The Turks tried to exterminate the Armenian Christians, but today count their history in the early days of the Christian faith as a cultural treasure, and have made the Hagia Sophia a museum, with the old Byzantine frescoes undergoing restoration.

In Egypt and some other North African countries, as well as places like Jordan and up into Central Asia, Christians and Muslims have lived together for a long time, and Muslims usually don't bother adhering to the distinctions their faith calls for them to make, because the Christians are their friends.

In Palestine, most of the Christians fled in 1948. The few who remain hate Israelis just as much as the Muslims do, and fight side-by-side.

In Sudan, the Arab Muslims in power have been trying to extreminate the African Christians for years, long before the situation in darfur got worldwide attention.

It just depends upon the community. Now that even Arab Christians are being associated with the West, they are facing greater persecution than in the past.

As for Christianity, well, people who are hostile to the faith like to take individual verses from the Bible out of context and throw them in the face of Christians. Then, when Christians respond with an orthodox interpretation of the verses in question, those hostile call it "making excuses." This is because they aren't interested in any kind of legitimate debate. Agnostics and atheists can be dogmatic, just as the religious can.

[The Ressurrected One]

There are Muslims all over the world condemning terrorism on a continuous basis... that doesn't mean that American media is going to fall all over itself reporting that. Go request a fatwa from any respected Islamic scholar, and see for yourself.

And the mainstream interpretation of the Quran is that jihad is solely for defensive purposes, and that the bloody conquests of Mohammed and his followers were a special dispensation from Allah in the initial spread of Islam. Muslims today are called to convert through persuasion and example, not the sword.

Islam does not go as far as Christianity, at least in teaching anyway, with regard to the treatment of unbelievers. Islam teaches that while Jews and Christians are deserving of protection, they are not to be treated with the same respect as fellow Muslims. Others, termed "polytheists," even though they coulds be atheists or anything else, are accorded no respect whatsoever.

In the real world, how Muslims treat people just depends. Iraqi Christians are having a hard time because Saddam Hussein protected them, so now they are a target. Iran is more tolerant of the church than one might expect, and regards several old Persian churches as cultural tresures. The Syrians as we all know have a record of oppression against the Maronites in Lebanon. The Turks tried to exterminate the Armenian Christians, but today count their history in the early days of the Christian faith as a cultural treasure, and have made the Hagia Sophia a museum, with the old Byzantine frescoes undergoing restoration.

In Egypt and some other North African countries, as well as places like Jordan and up into Central Asia, Christians and Muslims have lived together for a long time, and Muslims usually don't bother adhering to the distinctions their faith calls for them to make, because the Christians are their friends.

In Palestine, most of the Christians fled in 1948. The few who remain hate Israelis just as much as the Muslims do, and fight side-by-side.

In Sudan, the Arab Muslims in power have been trying to extreminate the African Christians for years, long before the situation in darfur got worldwide attention.

It just depends upon the community. Now that even Arab Christians are being associated with the West, they are facing greater persecution than in the past.

As for Christianity, well, people who are hostile to the faith like to take individual verses from the Bible out of context and throw them in the face of Christians. Then, when Christians respond with an orthodox interpretation of the verses in question, those hostile call it "making excuses." This is because they aren't interested in any kind of legitimate debate. Agnostics and atheists can be dogmatic, just as the religious can.
Nicely put, ES.

However, I would note your dissertation tends to support the premise that Muslims have to liberally interpret their Koran to avoid the more distasteful or violent aspects of the religion while Christians must do the same in order to justify their more distasteful or violent behaviors.

[Extra Stout]

Nicely put, ES.

However, I would note your dissertation tends to support the premise that Muslims have to liberally interpret their Koran to avoid the more distasteful or violent aspects of the religion while Christians must do the same in order to justify their more distasteful or violent behaviors.I think to some degree that is correct. But not too much.

The Koran is like the Bible in that there are teachings that appear superficially contradictory that are explained through deeper holistic study. For example, Christians do not adhere to the ceremonial and civil aspects of Levitical law not because they are hypocrites or have selective hearing, but because of the teachings of Jesus that the laws are summed up in loving one's neighbor, the passages in Romans that explain the purpose of those laws in revealing man's futility in meeting God's holy standard, and the passages in Hebrews that explain the completion and abrogation of those laws through Christ.

Likewise, the Koran states both that infidels are to be slaughtered, and that they are to be accorded protection, and that Muslims should enter into treaties with them. Without holistic study of the Koran, it is difficult for us to understand how Muslims work all that out.

The biggest problem I see is that while the OT/NT relationship is widely agreed upon by Christians, differing mainly between dispensational and unified views of God's plan, since the NT is pretty clear on how to treat the OT, the teachings on jihad are vague enough that they are more akin to Christians' disagreements on say, women's covering themselves in the church. So while the majority agrees that the passage in Corinthians is a figure of speech for long hair, which itself is a cultural allusion in Corinth for not dressing like a prostitute, some people will take it literally enough that they think their women have to wear the little doilies, or even the head wraps.

[The Ressurrected One]

I think to some degree that is correct. But not too much.

The Koran is like the Bible in that there are teachings that appear superficially contradictory that are explained through deeper holistic study. For example, Christians do not adhere to the ceremonial and civil aspects of Levitical law not because they are hypocrites or have selective hearing, but because of the teachings of Jesus that the laws are summed up in loving one's neighbor, the passages in Romans that explain the purpose of those laws in revealing man's futility in meeting God's holy standard, and the passages in Hebrews that explain the completion and abrogation of those laws through Christ.

Likewise, the Koran states both that infidels are to be slaughtered, and that they are to be accorded protection, and that Muslims should enter into treaties with them. Without holistic study of the Koran, it is difficult for us to understand how Muslims work all that out.

The biggest problem I see is that while the OT/NT relationship is widely agreed upon by Christians, differing mainly between dispensational and unified views of God's plan, since the NT is pretty clear on how to treat the OT, the teachings on jihad are vague enough that they are more akin to Christians' disagreements on say, women's covering themselves in the church. So while the majority agrees that the passage in Corinthians is a figure of speech for long hair, which itself is a cultural allusion in Corinth for not dressing like a prostitute, some people will take it literally enough that they think their women have to wear the little doilies, or even the head wraps.
You make a compelling argument. However, the construct of both books is entirely and significantly different.

Just as the Koran was the product of one person, Mohammed, and one would only need to discern his intent to understand the underlying meaning of Koran text; the Bible is the product of many, written over the course of thousands of years and obligates the reader to understand the cultural signficance of the periods during which the individual books were written before being able to discern the intent of the author.

Further, mistaking the meaning of a passage in Corinthians that leads to a fairly innocuous religious belief is not the same as misconstruing the meaning of Jihad and murdering thousands ... as did your prophet, Mohammed, the author of same.

It is also telling that you did not pick any passage of the New Testament that has been miscontrued to justify violence...

[Extra Stout]

You make a compelling argument. However, the construct of both books is entirely and significantly different.

Just as the Koran was the product of one person, Mohammed, and one would only need to discern his intent to understand the underlying meaning of Koran text; the Bible is the product of many, written over the course of thousands of years and obligates the reader to understand the cultural signficance of the periods during which the individual books were written before being able to discern the intent of the author.True. But keep in mind that Mohammed did not write the Quran all in one sitting, but rather wrote it over the course of his adult life, over which his point of view changed.


Further, mistaking the meaning of a passage in Corinthians that leads to a fairly innocuous religious belief is not the same as misconstruing the meaning of Jihad and murdering thousands ... as did your prophet, Mohammed, the author of same.Indeed, that it is the biggest problem I see. There are legitimate hermeneutics of the Quran that could lead one to believe that a Muslim should fight the United States to the death. It is not a heretical view, merely an unusual one. That a mainstream religion can reasonably be interpreted this way is a huge issue. It could mean there will always be a small contingent of Islamic terrorism. Remember that the United States fought a war against Islamic pirates in the 1790's who had a worldview not unlike modern-day terrorists. Their outlook changed drastically after the U.S. Navy bombed the bejeezus out of Tunis. Suddenly the Barbary Pirates wanted a treaty.


It is also telling that you did not pick any passage of the New Testament that has been miscontrued to justify violence...There is none of which I know. If anything, NT passages are misconstrued to justify excessive meekness...

[The Ressurrected One]

True. But keep in mind that Mohammed did not write the Quran all in one sitting, but rather wrote it over the course of his adult life, over which his point of view changed.
Still...one man, one lifetime.

Indeed, that it is the biggest problem I see. There are legitimate hermeneutics of the Quran that could lead one to believe that a Muslim should fight the United States to the death. It is not a heretical view, merely an unusual one. That a mainstream religion can reasonably be interpreted this way is a huge issue. It could mean there will always be a small contingent of Islamic terrorism. Remember that the United States fought a war against Islamic pirates in the 1790's who had a worldview not unlike modern-day terrorists. Their outlook changed drastically after the U.S. Navy bombed the bejeezus out of Tunis. Suddenly the Barbary Pirates wanted a treaty.
Bombing the bejeezus out of them again, appears to be the only solution. I guess we'll have to keep it up until they amend the Koran.

There is none of which I know. If anything, NT passages are misconstrued to justify excessive meekness...
Agreed.

[smackdaddy11]

http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=669

The following are excerpts from a Friday sermon on Palestinian Authority TV. The preacher is Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris. PA TV aired this sermon on May 13, 2005

I won't bore you with the entire racist Islam is peaceful rant.

Here are some excerpts:

"With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers."

Aids. Nice peaceful muslim.

"We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America."

As I have told you ignoramouses over and over and over. This religion wants to rule the world. Millions upon millions of these animals want the destruction of civilization as we know it.

"The day will come when everything will be relived of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew."

Wow. Hiteresque don't you think?


I love the flower pitchers who have had no part of this thread. I should have known you pussies who loved to call me out will not even counter the original thread.

BTW, Her is a list of the "peaceful" Muslim groups who endorsed the march:

http://www.freemuslims.org/

On May 14, the Free Muslims and 80 other supporting organizations sent a message to radical Muslims and supporters of terrorism that we reject them and that we will defeat them.

That is almost 1/2 a person per organization. They are everywhere. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

[E20]

Geez, he is from Palestine and talking smack about Israel/Jews and the only way he can is by using reliogon :rolleyes, why don't he just say it out:

They took some land from us.

Just like Chapelle:
The man tried to kill my father. :lol

And this is comes from a hadith:
When the bier of anyone passeth by thee, whether Jew, Christian or Muslim, rise to thy feet.

where the hell does Sheik Ibrahim get his shit from?

http://www.routledge-ny.com/MiddleAges/Jewish/IslamandJews.pdf#search='Islam%20on%20jews'

[scott]

Wow. Hiteresque don't you think?

First, I'm assuming you meant "Hitleresque"?

And that is a great analogy... Hitler was a radical Christian who preached violence as a means to his ends... Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris is a radical Muslim who preaches voilence as a means to his ends.

Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris represents mainstream Islam as much as Adolf Hitler represented mainstream Christianity.

Your first contribution to real thought. Attaboy, smackdaddy!

45 posts into this topic, and no one has yet provided evidence of the Koran advocating the murder of infidels who refuse to convert and thus accepted my challenge.

[E20]

Who doesn't get the idea:
'There's no compulsion in religon'?

A key thing in all the major religons

[The Ressurrected One]

45 posts into this topic, and no one has yet provided evidence of the Koran advocating the murder of infidels who refuse to convert and thus accepted my challenge.
Sorry, didn't recall there was a challenge...I thought the premise had been stipulated by all involved.


"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

It should be clear that this verse commands Muslims to wage war on all non-Muslims around them. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this out.


"When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."

That is what I call a harsh religion. You are supposed to strike off the heads of those to whom you evangelize?


"Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."


"Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."

scott, if you can put these in a context that makes Islam look peaceful...be my guest.

[The Ressurrected One]

Who doesn't get the idea:
'There's no compulsion in religon'?

A key thing in all the major religons
I disagree. Christianity is not a compulsory religion.

The concept of religious liberty, in which I as a Christian am a believer, depends upon a particular conception of God, a particular conception of the human person, and a particular conception of liberty. Reaching these conceptions took Jews and Christians many centuries. They had to be learned through failure and sin and error, and at great cost. But they were eventually learned.

This uniquely Judeo-Christian principle, in and of itself, demands that each person’s decision about how (if at all) to worship God is inalienable, for it belongs to each alone in his or her own conscience. Everyone must be free in conscience and in public exercise to accept, or to reject, the Judeo-Christian God. Even if unbelievers choose not to recognize this conception of God, conscience and liberty, but rather to concentrate upon abuses of the principle committed by Christians or others, this particular conception guarantees their freedom of conscience. It is also precious for believers, who are obliged by it to grant to all others exactly the same right to religious liberty that they claim for themselves.

I am called as a Christian to evangelize and spread the Good News. You can either reject or accept my overtures...without penalty.

This is not the case in Islam.

[smackdaddy11]

Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris represents mainstream Islam as much as Adolf Hitler represented mainstream Christianity.

and the world united to destroy him................................ meanwhile back in the current times, a few dozen Muslims in D.C. march against terrorism. World reaction to the threat against civilization is the same. Maybe in your fantasy land. Why is there a website dedicated to the reformation of Islam if it is what you say it is?


[QUOTE]Your first contribution to real thought. Attaboy, smackdaddy![QUOTE]

Still waiting for yours.

[E20]

I am called as a Christian to evangelize and spread the Good News. You can either reject or accept my overtures...without penalty.

This is not the case in Islam.
What I'm saying is that if you don't believe in the religon with your heart then you shouldn't even be a part of it ala-Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.


066.009
O Prophet! Strive hard against the Unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed).
You can interpret this pretty diffrently in many ways because of the word order and depending on who reads and how they feel, one way you could put it- the unbelievers and the hypocrites at that time were the Quarish from Makkah who supposedly harrashed and killed Muslims and riduculed them -- Much like the Romans to the Christians.


048.029
O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
This doesn't not correspond with yours except, say that if you are agressed then you should do something. Pretty logical.


047.003
This because those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the Truth from their Lord: Thus does Allah set forth for men their lessons by similitudes
This verse Chap 47 line 3 does not even have any parallel to YOUR Chap 47 Verse 3, why is that?


048.029
Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.
This doesn't correspond aswell........

To come to the conclusion that 7th century Arabic can be interpeted in many different ways and depending on what people want you to read and what it really means you can get a load of bull. Like if you search for: 'Quran harsh rules'

You'll get a butt load of hate sites.




and the world united to destroy him
So what you're saying is that all the Muslims unite and kill the terrorists? So you want your average Irani male who makes 0 $ a day to go and find a gun and unite every other poor real Muslim? In a Islamic goverment the closest thing I can relate to it is a Facist goverment and if anybody really objects they'll die.

[scott]

scott, if you can put these in a context that makes Islam look peaceful...be my guest.

I never claimed I could. I'll allow someone interested in defending Islam do that.

I merely claimed I could point out an equal number of examples in the Bible as you can in the Koran.


I count that you provided 4 (and I won't get into the debate of why your Koran doesn't jive with E20's).

Here are my 4:

Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword."

Matthew 25:41 - "The non-believers shall be cast into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Revelations 2:23 - "I will put her children to death."

Revelations 20:15 - "Anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life shall be thrown into the pool of fire."

And by the way... Jesus believed in the Old Testament, why don't some Christians?

Matthew 5:17 - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law."

[The Ressurrected One]

I never claimed I could. I'll allow someone interested in defending Islam do that.

I merely claimed I could point out an equal number of examples in the Bible as you can in the Koran.


I count that you provided 4 (and I won't get into the debate of why your Koran doesn't jive with E20's).

Here are my 4:

Matthew 10:34 - "Do not think I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword."

Matthew 25:41 - "The non-believers shall be cast into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

Revelations 2:23 - "I will put her children to death."

Revelations 20:15 - "Anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life shall be thrown into the pool of fire."

And by the way... Jesus believed in the Old Testament, why don't some Christians?

Matthew 5:17 - "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law."
I think you miss a major distinction between the two texts...

The New Testament scripture you cite tells about what God will do (or what will happen to those who do not repent) -- not what his followers should do. The Koran directs the followers to do what Allah commands.

But, I do see your point...and, probably a distinction that should have been made earlier in the argument.

As far as not believing the Old Testament, I never said that. Just that Jesus Christ, the Messiah prophecied in the Old Testament, brought a new covenant between man and God based on love and compassion.

[scott]

Now that I can agree on. My point is only that both texts are subject to misinterpretation, and I don't think it is fair to judge an entire faith based on the misinterpretations of crazed lunatics (whether it be Christianity, Judism, Islam, etc.).

[Mr Hanky]

"many people in this topic, know thier Shit'