Suns agreed to term on a 4year, $18 million deal with free agent F Hakim Warrick

[ace3g]

SpearsNBAYahoo

Suns agreed to term on a 4year, $18 million deal with free agent F Hakim Warrick, sources tell Y! Looks like Amare era in Phx could be over

[JMarkJohns]

I like the player. The cost is excessive. I would have figured 4 years, no more than 15, and prolly closer to 12, but whatever. We're gonna suck...

[Red Hawk #21]

What is Phoenix doing? They're making some very Atlanta Hawk-esque moves...

[Chieflion]

It is all over. Looks like the Amar'e era in Phoenix is done.

[timvp]

That's a healthy contract for a guy whose defense is so bad he got benched in Memphis.

[Findog]

It says a lot about the contracts given out so far that this is far from the worst.

[Muser]

Damn scrubs are getting paid big.

[Giuseppe]

It is all over. Looks like the Amar'e era in Phoenix is done.

Thank Christ.

[Chieflion]

Thank Christ.

Cubby, you seem like you sound scared.

[Giuseppe]

Cubby, you seem like you sound scared.

I'm always scared.

[Findog]

How can the owners and Stern claim that the sky is falling financially when Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay get max deals?

[ace3g]

WojYahooNBA

Suns owner Robert Sarver and Happy Walters had a late talk Thursday and Amar'e agent rejected Suns latest -- and likely final --- proposal.

Adrian Wojnarowski WojYahooNBA

Link to story on Hakim Warrick agreement in Phoenix and what it means to future of Amar'e Stoudemire on way.

[ace3g]

WojYahooNBA

Y! Sources: Warrick agrees to $18 mill deal with Suns; Amar'e era likely over; Max offer from N.Y. forthcoming? http://tinyurl.com/235v4yu

[Giuseppe]

Amare, back with D'Antoni and in NYC would be peaches. I could finally relax & enjoy the screwball.

Can ya imagine Amare's ma in NYC? ha!

[Giuseppe]

WojYahooNBA

Y! Sources: Warrick agrees to $18 mill deal with Suns; Amar'e era likely over; Max offer from N.Y. forthcoming? http://tinyurl.com/235v4yu

Good link, Ace.

[JMarkJohns]

I'm hoping there's an offer from the Nets forthcoming and the Suns can pry away Favors from the Nets.

[Giuseppe]

Amare would never go to NJ, JM. No way.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

God damn this is terrible. I'm pretty sure I know more about the NBA salary cap than either Gentry or Sarver.

Btw - They forfeit bird rights to Amare by this, so unless Amare is willing to take a HEAVY paycut he is officially done in Phoenix.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And that also means a sign and trade is off the table since they are no longer able to give Amare a max deal.

[SomeCallMeTim]

How can the owners and Stern claim that the sky is falling financially when Joe Johnson and Rudy Gay get max deals?

The Rudy Gay max deal is particularly damning.

[SomeCallMeTim]

And that also means a sign and trade is off the table since they are no longer able to give Amare a max deal.

Amar'e's been good as gone for months now... you just didn't realize it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Amar'e's been good as gone for months now... you just didn't realize it.


I can guarantee you I knew more about the situation than you did.

[Leetonidas]

Damn, WTF is Phoenix doing? Sure, you don't wanna pay Amare, okay, but then you hand out two awful contracts to two shitty, one-dimensional players? Guess Phoenix has their Vujacic and Morrison now.

Don't kill yourself DoK.

[JMarkJohns]

Amare would never go to NJ, JM. No way.

They've got the desperation to take on a MAX deal via Phoenix (6 years, 119 million) and the prospect to entice Phoenix into the deal.

Amare can make more for the Nets than he can with the Knicks, because the Knicks don't have anything to offer the Suns in SnT. Also, they are moving to Brooklyn, and he'd never need to play C for them unless there's injury to Lopez. He wouldn't be bitched at for not being a dominant rebounder, because they already have one in Lopez, and there's still an outside chance the Nets end up with either James this year, or maybe Anthony next year.

I'm not saying it's likely, but they've targeted him, and not Bosh, as their ideal PF, so maybe that means something?

I'm hoping the Suns get something out of this. I'll take Favors, Hill or Beasley. At the moment, Beasley from Miami might be the most likely.

[JMarkJohns]

God damn this is terrible. I'm pretty sure I know more about the NBA salary cap than either Gentry or Sarver.

Btw - They forfeit bird rights to Amare by this, so unless Amare is willing to take a HEAVY paycut he is officially done in Phoenix.

How do they forfeit Bird Rights? Did they renounce?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

How do they forfeit Bird Rights? Did they renounce?


When a team uses their cap room to sign another player they automatically renounce bird rights to any of their free agents they have it to. That rule is to prevent teams from using their cap room to sign other players and then resigning the player(s) they have bird rights to.

[JMarkJohns]

Are you sure this isn't just to MAX out their MLE? I don't know what the MLE is at. It's whatever the average NBA salary is, and in previous years it's been around 5 years, 40 million and last year Turkoglu got a ridiculous contract from the MLE.

[JMarkJohns]

You're right. Seems too much. To renounce their ability to get a Scola, or Favors via sign-n-trade to overpay Warrick? This may be the dumbest thing yet from Sarver.

There's still a chance that if each contract is backloaded, that the first year salaries don't supersede the MLE starting salary, but the contracts themselves seem too high in total for this to be true.

EDIT: Seems like this year's MLE is going to be worth 6 million first year (last year was 5.9). If Frye starts around 3.7 and Warrick around 2.3, then the Suns haven't renounced yet, as they always had the ability to use their MLE even with a MAXed out Amare.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Are you sure this isn't just to MAX out their MLE? I don't know what the MLE is at. It's whatever the average NBA salary is, and in previous years it's been around 5 years, 40 million and last year Turkoglu got a ridiculous contract from the MLE.


Turk's contract was not an MLE level deal. The max MLE is 5 years 32-34 million, Channing Frye's deal is a near max MLE deal. The contract they're giving Warrick is with the cap room they have.

The way it works is that since they have bird rights to Amare his salary figure still counts against the cap, so they are technically over the cap. The only way they can clear the cap room to sign Warrick is to renounce bird rights to Amare.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

EDIT: Seems like this year's MLE is going to be worth 6 million first year (last year was 5.9). If Frye starts around 3.7 and Warrick around 2.3, then the Suns haven't renounced yet, as they always had the ability to use their MLE even with a MAXed out Amare.


There's no way Frye's deal has a base salary of 3.7 million, his average salary is 6 million.

[JMarkJohns]

The MLE starts at roughly 6 per. With increases, the total is closer to 40 million.

See my edit above.

[JMarkJohns]

There's no way Frye's deal has a base salary of 3.7 million, his average salary is 6 million.

What's the percentage increases season to season?

[Stump]

Wow, if Amare is now a lock to be gone, how many games do you see this squad winning next year?

[Mel_13]

Turk's contract was not an MLE level deal. The max MLE is 5 years 32-34 million, Channing Frye's deal is a near max MLE deal. The contract they're giving Warrick is with the cap room they have.

The way it works is that since they have bird rights to Amare his salary figure still counts against the cap, so they are technically over the cap. The only way they can clear the cap room to sign Warrick is to renounce bird rights to Amare.

Right.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What's the percentage increases season to season?


You're only allowed to backload a contract so much, I don't know the exact numbers, but I know the 5 year 20 mil deal woulda had a base salary of 3.5 million. Chances are a 5 year 30 mil deal has a base salary closer to 5 million.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'm not trying to argue with you JMark, I know it's hard to believe that Sarver could be so dumb as to renounce bird rights to Amare just to overpay Hakeem Warrick.

[JMarkJohns]

You're only allowed to backload a contract so much, I don't know the exact numbers, but I know the 5 year 20 mil deal woulda had a base salary of 3.5 million. Chances are a 5 year 30 mil deal has a base salary closer to 5 million.

I found a link that says 10.4. I used to know this stuff, but I have no idea anymore.

If 10.4, the base is probably a minimum of 4.5, and likely 4.8.

It does seem they've renounced their rights.

[Mel_13]

There's no way Frye's deal has a base salary of 3.7 million, his average salary is 6 million.

5/30 with maximum raises of 8% would start at 5.17M

4/18 with maximum 8% raises would start at 4.02M

[JMarkJohns]

I'm not trying to argue with you JMark, I know it's hard to believe that Sarver could be so dumb as to renounce bird rights to Amare just to overpay Hakeem Warrick.

You're more than likely right. Just seems so idiotic I can't fathom. Both contracts. Damn.

[Stump]

For players you have bird rights to, it's 10.5%. Otherwise, it's 8%.

edit: Mel beat me to it, though I think Frye can only be given 8% raises too.

[Mel_13]

For players you have bird rights to, it's 10.5%. Otherwise, it's 8%.

edit: Mel beat me to it, though I think Frye can only be given 8% raises too.

You're right. Edited post.

[spursfan1000]

Hakim Warrick isnt a bad player, espeacially if it's a run and gun game like Suns like to play, but he is a bit over paid.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol sarver putting trash around nash, fkn fail

[Samr]

Bad day to be a Suns fan. I thought Spurs had it tough with RJ opting out, but for the Suns, Bucks, and Grizz, this is just sad. Y'all didn't sign bad players, your owner just signed them to bad contracts. Same thing happened to the Spurs with Malik Rose.

I think the writing was on the wall as far as Amare was concerned (he wasn't that good outside the system anyway, and he'll do worse elsewhere; see: Marion, Shawn), but Suns fans in general have been pretty cool and smart.

Feel bad for y'all. Real bad.

[Mr Bones]

Poor Steve Nash. He loses a super talented defensive liability in Amar'e and gains an average talent defensive liability in Warrick.

[Mel_13]

Poor Steve Nash. He loses a super talented defensive liability in Amar'e and gains an average talent defensive liability in Warrick.

Not only that. Last summer he signed a team-friendly 2yr/21M extension that begins with the 2010-11 season. Then the team screws him over by letting Amare walk. I'm pretty sure he could get a whole lot more than 2/21 if he was a FA right now.

[Goran Dragic]

Not only that. Last summer he signed a team-friendly 2yr/21M extension that begins with the 2010-11 season. Then the team screws him over by letting Amare walk. I'm pretty sure he could get a whole lot more than 2/21 if he was a FA right now.


You really have no idea what you're talking about.

[Mel_13]

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

You really think Nash couldn't do much better than 2/21 if he were a FA right now?

[Goran Dragic]

You really think Nash couldn't do much better than 2/21 if he were a FA right now?


I don't care, all I know is a year ago Nash signed an extension that he didn't deserve after the 2009 abortion he contributed to. It was more than Portland planned on paying him if Phoenix agreed to their trade, and he signed the extension knowing full well who the owner was and that there was a strong possibility Amare was leaving in a year. I'm sick of fucksticks like you and IronMexican thinking you know everything there is to know about the Suns based off the 2010 playoffs.

[Mel_13]

I don't care, all I know is a year ago Nash signed an extension that he didn't deserve after the 2009 abortion he contributed to. It was more than Portland planned on paying him if Phoenix agreed to their trade, and he signed the extension knowing full well who the owner was and that there was a strong possibility Amare was leaving in a year. I'm sick of fucksticks like you and IronMexican thinking you know everything there is to know about the Suns based off the 2010 playoffs.

Nice rant, but you're quite clueless about what I base my opinions of Nash and the Suns on.

[Goran Dragic]

Nice rant, but you're quite clueless about what I base my opinions of Nash and the Suns on.


I'm confident you're basing it off the 2010 playoffs, since I never saw you talking about the Suns much at all until the 2010 playoffs, and now all the sudden you talk about them like you're a god damned expert.

[Mel_13]

I'm confident you're basing it off the 2010 playoffs, since I never saw you talking about the Suns much at all until the 2010 playoffs, and now all the sudden you talk about them like you're a god damned expert.

You would still be very wrong. I hardly posted anything at all in the NBA Forum until recently. It doesn't mean that I haven't followed the NBA closely for many, many years.

[Goran Dragic]

You would still be very wrong. I hardly posted anything at all in the NBA Forum until recently. It doesn't mean that I haven't followed the NBA closely for many, many years.


I never said you hadn't, I'm saying you pretend you know a lot more about the Suns than you really do, Nash signed an extension a year ago knowing full well what the team might look like right now. People who know that aren't gonna paint him as a victim like he did some holy deed signing a contract that guarantees him $21,000,000.

[Mel_13]

I never said you hadn't, I'm saying you pretend you know a lot more about the Suns than you really do, Nash signed an extension a year ago knowing full well what the team might look like right now. People who know that aren't gonna paint him as a victim like he did some holy deed signing a contract that guarantees him $21,000,000.

If you say so.

:rolleyes

[Jeremy]

You're more than likely right. Just seems so idiotic I can't fathom. Both contracts. Damn.

Besides now having no ability to do a sign-and-trade with Amare (which it's looking like Chicago might want to do), I was also hoping that even with Frye's horrible contract, that maybe just maybe the Suns would use their $13 million cap space to sign a decent player, and then use the MLE to sign Frye.

Is it legal to renounce their rights to Frye and then use the MLE for him later, though? But even if they didn't renounce his rights, they would still have $11 million cap space, right? $13 million minus Frye's $2 million salary from last year?

Anyway, the stupid Warrick contract does away with all of these possibilities now. :(

Is Sarver really that stupid that he doesn't even know the simple basics of the salary cap rules? Again, this is why you need a GENERAL MANAGER during free agency. Or Sarver is just hoping the fans are stupid and is being cheap as usual.

I sure hope Sarver sells the team. I can't take much more of this.

[Jeremy]

Wait a second, I just realized that Warrick is on the Bulls. So if Amare wants to go to the Bulls, perhaps we could do a sign-and-trade for Warrick plus something additional perhaps. Not that Sarver would be smart enough to pull something like that off, though. Again, I don't why he thought he didn't need a GM this summer. Sickening.

[slick'81]

soo amare was that bad suns feel better off with hakeem and channing :wow