We Need RMJ Back

[chazley]

We need Mason back. He is our best shooter, and I think he can be very effective for us in a 3 guard lineup with 2 bigs. He was injured last year, and if we got the 08-09 Mason back it would be a steal. Bottom line, The RJ situation effed us, and we will not get a better shooter for the vet minimum than we would with Mason, who will probably command something around the midlevel in this specific free agent market but we could probably get a home discount because he loves it in SA. Pop used him horribly wrong last year, only giving him minutes at backup PG near the end of the year, and if he doesn't play another minute at point in his career, he can be very solid for us off the bench in a Brent Barry role.

I know everyone bashes Mason because he had a bad year, but he was injured and wasn't played correctly. C'mon Spurs, give him another shot.

[Dex]

http://celestialkitsune.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/this-will-not-end-well.jpg

[MaNu4Tres]

http://www.yahooka.com/forum/attachments/politics-current-affairs/45050d1257986411-read-my-lips-raising-taxes-middle-recession-bad-idea-trolling.jpg

[MaNu4Tres]

http://bookreviewsbybobbie.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/troll.jpg

[Dex]

Seriously though, RMJ was a flash in the pan. Even I wanted to support the guy, but aside from his initial contributions on the team (which were generally in Ginobili's absence, mind you), the guy lost his shot for the last season and a half, and has also been a playoff dud twice. He was an instant big shot because of a few clutch shots, but he wasn't able to live up to his own hype.

All Mason does well is shoot. His lateral quickness prevents him from being a solid defender, he's a terrible slasher, and his floor vision is less than impressive. A one-dimensional shooter who isn't hitting shots is a detriment to the team.

Pop didn't help matters by trying to make him a point, which seemed to start a spiral that he never recovered from. But he had plenty of minutes, and plenty of chances, even before the hand injury. I don't think he's earned another season of them.

[slick'81]

http://thebaumer.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/grannys_weed_big.jpg

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

http://celestialkitsune.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/this-will-not-end-well.jpg

:lol:lol:lol

[Russ]

Who says players don't post on this site! :)

[Obstructed_View]

http://i846.photobucket.com/albums/ab24/0ompaLoompa/NotSureIfSerious.jpg

[benefactor]

We need Mason back.
This is as far as I got. I didn't see the need to read any further.

[Agloco]

He is our best shooter,

If that's true, then we should go ahead and give Manu and Duncan early retirement packages, trade Parker for a couple of second rounders and trade Splitter for "cash considerations".

[Nathan89]

We need Mason back. He is our best shooter, and I think he can be very effective for us in a 3 guard lineup with 2 bigs. He was injured last year, and if we got the 08-09 Mason back it would be a steal. Bottom line, The RJ situation effed us, and we will not get a better shooter for the vet minimum than we would with Mason, who will probably command something around the midlevel in this specific free agent market but we could probably get a home discount because he loves it in SA. Pop used him horribly wrong last year, only giving him minutes at backup PG near the end of the year, and if he doesn't play another minute at point in his career, he can be very solid for us off the bench in a Brent Barry role.

I know everyone bashes Mason because he had a bad year, but he was injured and wasn't played correctly. C'mon Spurs, give him another shot.

Clearly you had to much to drink on the 4th of July. I thought mason could shoot until he played an entire year shooting like jefferson, bogans and hairston. On top that he is to small and lacks intensity.

[gospursgojas]

Cmon rogg first twitter now st.com???

[chazley]

What shooter is on the FA market right now that we can get for the vet minimum that is better than RMJ? The answer is nobody. He had one terrible year, yeah. The reason is because Pop took him out of his comfort zone and he wasn't able to establish a rhythm cause Pop had him doing things he'd never done in the NBA, plus he was injured. When he was draining game winners and he was the second coming of Robert Horry because of his clutchness (word?) back in 08-09 according to some people, he didn't play a single minute at PG.

Use him as a SG and a spot up shooter and he will be very useful.

[tuncaboylu]

What shooter is on the FA market right now that we can get for the vet minimum that is better than RMJ? The answer is nobody. He had one terrible year, yeah. The reason is because Pop took him out of his comfort zone and he wasn't able to establish a rhythm cause Pop had him doing things he'd never done in the NBA, plus he was injured. When he was draining game winners and he was the second coming of Robert Horry because of his clutchness (word?) back in 08-09 according to some people, he didn't play a single minute at PG.

Use him as a SG and a spot up shooter and he will be very useful.

First of all, RMJ will not accept a veteran minimum contract offer. He will be seeking 2.5-3 M and 3-4 years contract elsewhere and it's too much to handle for Spurs.

Moreover, RMJ was lost since the post-season of 2009 and he's not a good fit. Yes it's hard to replace him for veteran minimum, but you should try your chance. Maybe we can run after Raja Bell, who is likely to play in a contender for veteran minimum.

[timtonymanu]

Awesome.

Should we also consider bringing back Bogans since we cant find a better defender out there?

Maybe Udoka also since he had a decent 07-08 season.

[Interrohater]

We need Mason back. He is our best shooter, and I think he can be very effective for us in a 3 guard lineup with 2 bigs. He was injured last year, and if we got the 08-09 Mason back it would be a steal. Bottom line, The RJ situation effed us, and we will not get a better shooter for the vet minimum than we would with Mason, who will probably command something around the midlevel in this specific free agent market but we could probably get a home discount because he loves it in SA. Pop used him horribly wrong last year, only giving him minutes at backup PG near the end of the year, and if he doesn't play another minute at point in his career, he can be very solid for us off the bench in a Brent Barry role.

I know everyone bashes Mason because he had a bad year, but he was injured and wasn't played correctly. C'mon Spurs, give him another shot.
FIFY.:toast

[DrSteffo]

He is better suited for one of the smaller leagues in Europe. I do hope some sucker nba team will give him a contract though. That would be great for every other team in the nba.

[InRareForm]

http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/Spurs19992003/2vcephz.gif

[chazley]

First of all, RMJ will not accept a veteran minimum contract offer. He will be seeking 2.5-3 M and 3-4 years contract elsewhere and it's too much to handle for Spurs.

Moreover, RMJ was lost since the post-season of 2009 and he's not a good fit. Yes it's hard to replace him for veteran minimum, but you should try your chance. Maybe we can run after Raja Bell, who is likely to play in a contender for veteran minimum.

I'd be shocked is Raja Bell didn't end up with the Lakers, first of all.

Second, I'm not saying we would give RMJ the minimum. However, we can go over the cap to resign one of our players so we don't have to give him the minimum. Anyone we sign that wasn't with us we will have to sign for the the veteran minimum because we don't have cap room and im 93% sure Tiago will be taking our full midlevel. We do have our bi-annual exception, but I doubt that will be make or break for whatever player we get.

[chazley]

Awesome.

Should we also consider bringing back Bogans since we cant find a better defender out there?

Maybe Udoka also since he had a decent 07-08 season.

RMJ was considered a top-notch steal until March of 2009 when Pop started making him play PG instead of playing SG. Don't play him a single second at PG and we have a 40% 3-pt shooter coming off the bench next season.

[tuncaboylu]

I'd be shocked is Raja Bell didn't end up with the Lakers, first of all.

Second, I'm not saying we would give RMJ the minimum. However, we can go over the cap to resign one of our players so we don't have to give him the minimum. Anyone we sign that wasn't with us we will have to sign for the the veteran minimum because we don't have cap room and im 93% sure Tiago will be taking our full midlevel. We do have our bi-annual exception, but I doubt that will be make or break for whatever player we get.

We can get the nearly same production by paying veteran minimum to a veteran player instead of paying 3 times more to Mason. There are still some veterans are exist who want to play with Parker and Duncan. So why should we carry on with RMJ?

[AusSpursFan]

you have to be kidding, I would give minutes to Anderson anytime over Mason.

[chazley]

We can get the nearly same production by paying veteran minimum to a veteran player instead of paying 3 times more to Mason. There are still some veterans are exist who want to play with Parker and Duncan. So why should we carry on with RMJ?

Give me one veteran 3 point shooter on the market available for the minimum who can come in and average 10 points and shoot +40% from 3?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Give me one veteran 3 point shooter on the market available for the minimum who can come in and average 10 points and shoot +40% from 3?

I can't give one.

However, I can name many who can come and average 6 points and shoot .333 from 3, as that's what Mason did last season, when he played SG, not a PG.

Even better! I can name many veterans for the min, who could average more than 0.5 points on a whooping 8% shooting in the playoffs!

[BadOne]

We need Mason back. He is our best shooter, and I think he can be very effective for us in a 3 guard lineup with 2 bigs. He was injured last year, and if we got the 08-09 Mason back it would be a steal. Bottom line, The RJ situation effed us, and we will not get a better shooter for the vet minimum than we would with Mason, who will probably command something around the midlevel in this specific free agent market but we could probably get a home discount because he loves it in SA. Pop used him horribly wrong last year, only giving him minutes at backup PG near the end of the year, and if he doesn't play another minute at point in his career, he can be very solid for us off the bench in a Brent Barry role.

I know everyone bashes Mason because he had a bad year, but he was injured and wasn't played correctly. C'mon Spurs, give him another shot.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/fkdwbw/Face%20Palm.jpg (http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_bF6bqTFMFDMAq6ujzbkF/SIG=12tkadoam/EXP=1278409499/**http%3a//www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin_data/fkdwbw/Face%2520Palm.jpg)

[kobyz]

Mason is the worst player in NBA

[chazley]

I can't give one.

However, I can name many who can come and average 6 points and shoot .333 from 3, as that's what Mason did last season, when he played SG, not a PG.

Even better! I can name many veterans for the min, who could average more than 0.5 points on a whooping 8% shooting in the playoffs!

His shooting wrist was injured and Spurs fan gave him zero credit. Also, when he got in games last year, it was as a backup PG. Pop completely destroyed his rhythm and confidence, and you combine that with an injured wrist, it is not good. In 08-09, when he rarely played backup PG, he ended up averaging 12 points on 42% shooting from 3. To expect 8-10 points and 40% from 3 from him getting 20 min a game in a backup SG role and also playing with Hill/Parker in a 3-guard lineup, that would be great for us.

[easy7]

Yes, let's bring back every player from last year and hope for a different result. :rolleyes

[chazley]

Honestly, a 08-09 Tony, Splitter, Anderson, year 2 RJ (hopefully) and a rapidly improving Hill/Dejuan... I honestly feel like this team is a huge sleeper and has the chance to win a title. Only negatives are a declining Duncan (still was 5th in the league PER last year) and potentially a declining Manu.

[Spurs Brazil]

Mason is the worst player in NBA

this

[ElNono]

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/successful-troll-is-successful.jpg

[Dr. Gonzo]

http://www.gamesundso.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/boxxy-trolling.jpg

[Chubby_Love]

From what I've read today, it looks like he's moving on. We don't need him now, and we didn't need him last year. Sorry, but there's another team that may take him.

[4>0rings]

Why hasn't the thread starter been beaten with aged reed sticks yet?

[lefty]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/KingDaddy18/disgustedReactionSouthParkCreators.gif

[024]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TDJVfUKzvVI/AAAAAAAAEmk/WOkNrRm5vSs/s1600/10.jpg

[Brazil]

We need Udoka Back

[LOL@MavsFan]

No Mason, No Venom...are we prepared for this?

[chazley]

New rule. In order to post a reply, you must do two things:

1) Post something intelligent

2) Write a reply longer than 2 sentences

Seriously, does anyone in here have an informed opinion? Like I said, just tell me a FA that can give us 10 pts and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min and ill stop posting.

[Chieflion]

New rule. In order to post a reply, you must do two things:

1) Post something intelligent

2) Write a reply longer than 2 sentences

Seriously, does anyone in here have an informed opinion? Like I said, just tell me a FA that can give us 10 pts and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min and ill stop posting.
No. Roger Mason isn't giving us that, and neither player in the market can do that for the minimum. Ya, you can stop your impossible scenarios because Roger Mason cannot do that, and you are insinuating he can do that in 20 minutes.

[chazley]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TDJVfUKzvVI/AAAAAAAAEmk/WOkNrRm5vSs/s1600/10.jpg

This is funny though.

[Mel_13]

New rule. In order to post a reply, you must do two things:

1) Post something intelligent

2) Write a reply longer than 2 sentences

Seriously, does anyone in here have an informed opinion? Like I said, just tell me a FA that can give us 10 pts and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min and ill stop posting.

:lol

1. You don't get to make rules.

2. Your premise is faulty. Mason can't give us 10 points and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min. Now if you want a list of players who can give you 6 points and shoot 33% from 3 (14% in the playoffs) for half the MLE, you'll get a pretty long list of names.

[Dex]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TDJVfUKzvVI/AAAAAAAAEmk/WOkNrRm5vSs/s1600/10.jpg

I lol'd.

[Big P]

We need to sign & trade him to Portland or Chicago..or NJ...or NY....Miami?? Hell..anyone..please!

[UnWantedTheory]

New rule. In order to post a reply, you must do two things:

1) Post something intelligent

2) Write a reply longer than 2 sentences

Seriously, does anyone in here have an informed opinion? Like I said, just tell me a FA that can give us 10 pts and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min and ill stop posting.

Well for starters, if you could name one it would help. It would also help if you, yourself, had an informed opinion. What you are saying is not realistic from a production standpoint, nor a financial one. If that were the case, than Mason would be picked up quick fast and in a hurry by any organization. Problem being...? It isnt the case, plain and simple.

P.S.
Hope I met your posting requirements.

[Brazil]

New rule. In order to post a reply, you must do two things:

1) Post something intelligent


We need Udoka Back

2) Write a reply longer than 2 sentences

sorry


We don't need RMJ back. We need Udoka Back. I'm happy, you create a great thread

Seriously, does anyone in here have an informed opinion? Like I said, just tell me a FA that can give us 10 pts and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min and ill stop posting.

:wow RMJ can do that ?

[chazley]

:lol

1. You don't get to make rules.

2. Your premise is faulty. Mason can't give us 10 points and shoot 40% from 3 for the vet min. Now if you want a list of players who can give you 6 points and shoot 33% from 3 (14% in the playoffs) for half the MLE, you'll get a pretty long list of names.

Yea, he can give us 10 points, at least 8, and shoot 40% from 3. In 08-09 he shot 42% from 3 and averaged 12 points in 30 min per game. In 20 minutes per game, I don't see why 8 points at a minimum would be too hard to attain. Also, to another persons point about RMJ not signing for the vet minimum, I've already gone over this but we can give RMJ 3-4 mil a year since he was with us last year, where we can't sign another player for anymore than the vet minimum.

The only way RMJ can be successful on this Spurs team is to play SG and nothing else. If he's allowed to do this, he can be a very effective 8th man on a championship team.

[Mel_13]

Yea, he can give us 10 points, at least 8, and shoot 40% from 3. In 08-09 he shot 42% from 3 and averaged 12 points in 30 min per game. In 20 minutes per game, I don't see why 8 points at a minimum would be too hard to attain. Also, to another persons point about RMJ not signing for the vet minimum, I've already gone over this but we can give RMJ 3-4 mil a year since he was with us last year, where we can't sign another player for anymore than the vet minimum.

The only way RMJ can be successful on this Spurs team is to play SG and nothing else. If he's allowed to do this, he can be a very effective 8th man on a championship team.

So why are you asking for a list of players who can do that for the vet min?

Anyway, RMJ won't be a Spur next year and that's all that really matters.

[chazley]

[/b]

Well for starters, if you could name one it would help. It would also help if you, yourself, had an informed opinion. What you are saying is not realistic from a production standpoint, nor a financial one. If that were the case, than Mason would be picked up quick fast and in a hurry by any organization. Problem being...? It isnt the case, plain and simple.

P.S.
Hope I met your posting requirements.

Not realistic? He averaged 12 points and shot 42% from 3 the year before last. To say he could average 10 pts and 40% from 3 is not unrealistic.

Also, Mason will get picked up fast, and will probably get the full MLE from a team. He would sign here for less IMO b/c he loves the city, but most teams covet what Mason brings. They understand Pop played him out of position the whole year and he injured his shooting wrist.

[chazley]

So why are you asking for a list of players who can do that for the vet min?

:bang

[Mel_13]

Not realistic? He averaged 12 points and shot 42% from 3 the year before last. To say he could average 10 pts and 40% from 3 is not unrealistic.

Also, Mason will get picked up fast, and will probably get the full MLE from a team. He would sign here for less IMO b/c he loves the city, but most teams covet what Mason brings. They understand Pop played him out of position the whole year and he injured his shooting wrist.

:lmao:rollin:lmao:rollin:lmao

[Chieflion]

Not realistic? He averaged 12 points and shot 42% from 3 the year before last. To say he could average 10 pts and 40% from 3 is not unrealistic.

Also, Mason will get picked up fast, and will probably get the full MLE from a team. He would sign here for less IMO b/c he loves the city, but most teams covet what Mason brings. They understand Pop played him out of position the whole year and he injured his shooting wrist.

Yeah, so why haven't we heard anything yet? :lmao

Full MLE? :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[chazley]

:lmao:rollin:lmao:rollin:lmao


Yeah, so why haven't we heard anything yet? :lmao

Full MLE? :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

You'll see. He's receiving plenty of interest.

[Brazil]

They understand Pop played him out of position the whole year and he injured his shooting wrist.

so this is the reason of his poor season :wow I thought it was because RMJ sucks, ufffaaa.

maybe chazley is RMJ, after the tweet story, he decided to defend his case here.

[Mel_13]

You'll see. He's receiving plenty of interest.

Interest, perhaps.

MLE.....

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Brazil]

You'll see. I'm receiving plenty of interest.

[ElNono]

lol full MLE...

[chazley]

lol full MLE...

Steve Blake just got 4.5 mil/year for 4 years at 30 years old to go play backup PG for the Lakers.

These kind of deals will be the norm this summer with soooo much cap space. This is not a normal offseason, a ton of tier-3 guys will get paid like tier-2 guys, tier-2 like tier-1, etc.

[ElNono]

Steve Blake just got 4.5 mil/year for 4 years at 30 years old to go play backup PG for the Lakers.
These kind of deals will be the norm this summer with soooo much cap space. This is not a normal offseason, a ton of tier-3 guys will get paid like tier-2 guys, tier-2 like tier-1, etc.

LOL full MLE for RMJ...

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Brazil]

Steve Blake just got 4.5 mil/year for 4 years at 30 years old to go play backup PG for the Lakers.

These kind of deals will be the norm this summer with soooo much cap space. This is not a normal offseason, a ton of tier-3 guys will get paid like tier-2 guys, tier-2 like tier-1, etc.

Steve Blake is a HOF compared to RMJ

[chazley]

so this is the reason of his poor season :wow I thought it was because RMJ sucks, ufffaaa.

You were wrong.

He had a down year because his shooting wrist was injured and he played backup PG for wayyy too many minutes when he got on the court.

[chazley]

Steve Blake is a HOF compared to RMJ

False. RMJ would be a bigger contributor on a championship team than Steve Blake ever will be.

[Obstructed_View]

You were wrong.

He had a down year because his shooting wrist was injured and he played backup PG for wayyy too many minutes when he got on the court.

You're a good guy, Roger. I hope you do well wherever you end up. Sorry that your phone isn't ringing and you have so much time to post on Spurstalk. For the record, I still think you were better than Bogans. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

[chazley]

You're a good guy, Roger. I hope you do well wherever you end up. Sorry that your phone isn't ringing and you have so much time to post on Spurstalk. For the record, I still think you were better than Bogans. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Same to you. you may now exit the thread.

[Mel_13]

Steve Blake just got 4.5 mil/year for 4 years at 30 years old to go play backup PG for the Lakers.

These kind of deals will be the norm this summer with soooo much cap space. This is not a normal offseason, a ton of tier-3 guys will get paid like tier-2 guys, tier-2 like tier-1, etc.

Man, you're killing yourself.

Blake got 4yrs/16M

The full MLE is 5yrs/34M

So you're not satisfied with making the rather dubious assertion than Mason is a better NBA player than Blake. You actually believe that he's so much better than Blake that he'll get a contract that will guarantee him more than twice what Blake will get from the Lakers.

:lmao

[chazley]

Man, you're killing yourself.

Blake got 4yrs/16M

The full MLE is 5yrs/34M

So you're not satisfied with making the rather dubious assertion than Mason is a better NBA player than Blake. You actually believe that he's so much better than Blake that he'll get a contract that will guarantee him more than twice what Blake will get from the Lakers.

:lmao

Sorry, was thinking about Hakim Warrick, who is an even better example. He got 4.5 million a year and has proven nothing yet in the NBA.

And also, full MLE doesn't mean max years. 3 yrs/17.4 mil is not out of the question for Mason.

[chazley]

Also, I said he would 'probably' get the MLE. That doesn't mean I 100% think he will. If he got 4-5 mil a year I wouldn't be surprised either.

[fusionjazzman72]

We need Mason back. He is our best shooter, and I think he can be very effective for us in a 3 guard lineup with 2 bigs. He was injured last year, and if we got the 08-09 Mason back it would be a steal. Bottom line, The RJ situation effed us, and we will not get a better shooter for the vet minimum than we would with Mason, who will probably command something around the midlevel in this specific free agent market but we could probably get a home discount because he loves it in SA. Pop used him horribly wrong last year, only giving him minutes at backup PG near the end of the year, and if he doesn't play another minute at point in his career, he can be very solid for us off the bench in a Brent Barry role.

I know everyone bashes Mason because he had a bad year, but he was injured and wasn't played correctly. C'mon Spurs, give him another shot.

Yes we need him back along with Darwin Cook, Jon Sunvold, Wes Matthews, Jeff Cook, Ozell Jones, Alfrederick Hughes, Corey Alexander etc...

[Obstructed_View]

Same to you. you may now exit the thread.

Maybe you should just stop creating retarded threads.

Mason's not likely to get a pay raise after the way he's performed. Even at less than 4m a year he's not remotely useful to the Spurs.

[chazley]

Maybe you should just stop creating retarded ones, Rog.

Since you're not contributing at all to this thread just leave. Enough idiots have already suggested I'm RMJ which is just stupid. If you'd like to have a discussion about the topic which I created I'd love to discuss it with you.

[Brazil]

False. RMJ would be a bigger contributor on a championship team than Steve Blake ever will be.

dude sorry for the tweets it was just some bored spurs fans... nothing personnal :hat

[Obstructed_View]

Since you're not contributing at all to this thread just leave. Enough idiots have already suggested I'm RMJ which is just stupid. If you'd like to have a discussion about the topic which I created I'd love to discuss it with you.

What are you talking about? I'm keeping it bumped up to the top. That's the only contribution anyone can make to this retarded thread. The reason people are suggesting you're Mason is because the OP was so mind-blowingly stupid.

[Obstructed_View]

Also, I said he would 'probably' get the MLE. That doesn't mean I 100% think he will. If he got 4-5 mil a year I wouldn't be surprised either.

If you're suggesting that teams are going to have way too much money to spend on suckass players, and that one of them will be stupid enough to throw a lot of money at Mason, I might be inclined to agree with that possibility. That possibility, however, makes your suggestion that the Spurs should go after him all that much dumber.

Seriously, did you actually have a point when you decided to start a thread?

[chazley]

What are you talking about? I'm keeping it bumped up to the top. That's the only contribution anyone can make to this retarded thread. The reason people are suggesting you're Mason is because the OP was so mind-blowingly stupid.

If it's 'mind-blowingly stupid', then back up your points with facts instead of just insulting me. I've laid out all my points throughout the thread.

[Chieflion]

If it's 'mind-blowingly stupid', then back up your points with facts instead of just insulting me. I've laid out all my points throughout the thread.

And none of them are legit.

[Obstructed_View]

What deficiency does Mason shore up anyway? They don't need more players his size, they don't need guys that can't defend, and they don't need guys that can't shoot. That's an awful lot of risk on the "If he plays like he did for a few months two years ago" possilbility.

[Obstructed_View]

Is that enough facts to back up my points? Can I go back to just calling you stupid again?

[chazley]

Why not? I backed up all my stuff with facts, and people here are just saying 'he sucks' and 'you're wrong'. I'd love to have an informed discussion with someone about it and am willing to change my view.

[chazley]

Is that enough facts to back up my points? Can I go back to just calling you stupid again?

Well, if you want to look like an idiot, go ahead. Somehow you got voted to whatever that award is next to your name, so it shows you how competent the readers are in this forum anyways, so they'll probably agree with you.

[DPG21920]

Chaz owning fools in here.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, if you want to look like an idiot, go ahead. Somehow you got voted to whatever that award is next to your name, so it shows you how competent the readers are in this forum anyways, so they'll probably agree with you.

If I wanted to look like an idiot, all I'd have to do is agree with you.

[chazley]

Chaz owning fools in here.

It's not hard.

[Chieflion]

Chaz owning fools in here.

Where's the blue font?

[chazley]

If I wanted to look like an idiot, all I'd have to do is agree with you.

You've got 6 posts in here and they've consisted of... you're post sucks and you must be RMJ... would love to see what other nuggets of information you've got in your other 22k posts.

[Obstructed_View]

Where's the blue font?

I believe DPG was referring to chazley's trolling skillz.

[Chieflion]

Look here, TJastal, if you wanted to create a new account to make your points, there isn't a need for that.

[chazley]

Ok so we've got 2 pages of trading insults, can we get back to the original post? Or do I need to keep completely crushing anyone who keeps trying to insult me?

[Obstructed_View]

You've got 6 posts in here and they've consisted of... you're post sucks and you must be RMJ... would love to see what other nuggets of information you've got in your other 22k posts.

I've got two posts in this thread that actually talked basketball, exactly what you asked for, both of which you've completely ignored. Not really a rock-solid confirmation of your wish to do anything other than be the center of attention for a little while.

[Rappin' Pop]

Man, do I really have to come up with a Roger Mason rap?
Roger Mason Jr is nothing but a piece of crap.
Take a hike, chazley, Roger Mason Jr or whatever.
Roger Mason for the MLE is nothing but clever.
Your life sucks so much you got to support junk.
Hate to break it to ya, but the Mason ship has sunk.
Yo, dawg, you better pray hard your crappy predictions are accurate.
He sucks so much, it is too hard to overrate.
Stop sucking on that overrated Mason's dick.
It makes all of us feel so sick.

Tell me chazley, how does my ass taste?

[Obstructed_View]

We need Mason back.
No we don't. Lots of guards coming into camp, lots of guys who can shoot, and most of them can also play defense and handle the ball, most of them are athletic and can get to the hoop, and lots of guys that can rebound well for their position.


He is our best shooter
No he wasn't. I say "wasn't" because he's no longer a Spur.


and I think he can be very effective for us in a 3 guard lineup with 2 bigs.
Since Mason can't defend very well, one of the guards in your lineup is going to have to guard a small forward. How many minutes per game are you counting on this lineup? Given the players currently on the roster, Mason's likely to be the worst three point shooter of the three guards in this lineup, plus he's going to have a bad defensive matchup and he can't really handle the ball, requiring someone even smaller than he is to be on the floor at the same time.


He was injured last year, and if we got the 08-09 Mason back it would be a steal. Bottom line, The RJ situation effed us, and we will not get a better shooter for the vet minimum than we would with Mason, who will probably command something around the midlevel in this specific free agent market but we could probably get a home discount because he loves it in SA.
He wasn't injured when he sucked the last part of the year and when he completely failed to show up in the playoffs. Taking a chance on a guy coming off injury who hasn't stepped up in the postseason, who has redundant skills, no size, no defense, no ability to run the point, and who you yourself says is going to command near MLE money sounds like a steal, but not in the direction you suggest.


Pop used him horribly wrong last year, only giving him minutes at backup PG near the end of the year, and if he doesn't play another minute at point in his career, he can be very solid for us off the bench in a Brent Barry role.
Barry could play point guard, so Mason can't play the Brent Barry role if he doesn't play a minute at point guard. Barry is a hell of a lot longer and can actually play small forward.

And unless you're suggesting a coaching change, I'm not sure what you think is going to change if Mason were to come back.

[chazley]

Mason's not likely to get a pay raise after the way he's performed. Even at less than 4m a year he's not remotely useful to the Spurs.

Teams will look back and think they can get the Mason from 08-09. Teams always do that, especially in this free agent market when teams are throwing money all over the place.


What deficiency does Mason shore up anyway? They don't need more players his size, they don't need guys that can't defend, and they don't need guys that can't shoot. That's an awful lot of risk on the "If he plays like he did for a few months two years ago" possilbility.

He shores up the backup SG spot and would fit in really well in a 3-guard/2-big lineup, which was highly effective for us at the end of last year. Again, teams will pay based on 'If he plays like he did for a few months two years ago' all the time. Plus, during the time his role was defined as SG on the Spurs, he was averaging nearly 15 points and was near the top of the league in 3pt%. I believe he can give us 8-10 pts. and 40% from 3. Everyone is acting like I want Mason back to play a huge role for us. Having an 8th man who can come in and drain shots is key for a championship team, and he can give us what Barry gave us in the championship years. You can always find a spot on a roster for high percentage 3pt shooters.


If you're suggesting that teams are going to have way too much money to spend on suckass players, and that one of them will be stupid enough to throw a lot of money at Mason, I might be inclined to agree with that possibility. That possibility, however, makes your suggestion that the Spurs should go after him all that much dumber.

Seriously, did you actually have a point when you decided to start a thread?

You actually proved my point, but were very condescending towards it. Kinda funny. Plus, I said while other teams might give him in the 5 mil/yr range, the Spurs could get him at probably 3.5/4mil a year b/c he loves the city so much.


Man, do I really have to come up with a Roger Mason rap?
Roger Mason Jr is nothing but a piece of crap.
Take a hike, chazley, Roger Mason Jr or whatever.
Roger Mason for the MLE is nothing but clever.
Your life sucks so much you got to support junk.
Hate to break it to ya, but the Mason ship has sunk.
Yo, dawg, you better pray hard your crappy predictions are accurate.
He sucks so much, it is too hard to overrate.

Tell me chazley, how does my ass taste?

Not sure how to respond to that, other than to say that was stupid.

[Obstructed_View]

You actually proved my point, but were very condescending towards it. Kinda funny. Plus, I said while other teams might give him in the 5 mil/yr range, the Spurs could get him at probably 3.5/4mil a year b/c he loves the city so much.

3.5 million a year is less money than Mason made last year. If other teams are going to offer him five million a year, I don't understand why you think he'd take a third off the top of that because he loves San Antonio. He's already said he's not selling his house. Do you really think he's going to give up 5-7 million dollars over the length of his next contract to stay with the Spurs?

[chazley]

[quote=Obstructed_View;4475248Since Mason can't defend very well, one of the guards in your lineup is going to have to guard a small forward. How many minutes per game are you counting on this lineup? Given the players currently on the roster, Mason's likely to be the worst three point shooter of the three guards in this lineup, plus he's going to have a bad defensive matchup and he can't really handle the ball, requiring someone even smaller than he is to be on the floor at the same time.


He wasn't injured when he sucked the last part of the year and when he completely failed to show up in the playoffs. Taking a chance on a guy coming off injury who hasn't stepped up in the postseason, who has redundant skills, no size, no defense, no ability to run the point, and who you yourself says is going to command near MLE money sounds like a steal, but not in the direction you suggest.


Barry could play point guard, so Mason can't play the Brent Barry role if he doesn't play a minute at point guard. Barry is a hell of a lot longer and can actually play small forward.

And unless you're suggesting a coaching change, I'm not sure what you think is going to change if Mason were to come back.[/quote]

Barry rarely played PG on the Spurs.

Mason can play SF on offense for small stretches, and when Hill is on the floor with him, Hill can guard SF's for small stretches. Both of these situations are only during 3-guard lineups.

Mason has choked in the playoffs, I will give you that, and I don't have a great counter-point for it. The best we can do is hope he shows up the next time. He rarely saw the court his 2nd year in SA during the playoffs, and his wrist was still not healed like you said. He still had that cast on it. He showed clutch ability lots of times during his first regular season with the Spurs, so we know he has it in him.

[Obstructed_View]

Teams will look back and think they can get the Mason from 08-09. Teams always do that, especially in this free agent market when teams are throwing money all over the place.

And as a Spurs fan, you think it would be wise of the Spurs to get caught up in that and throw good money after bad at Mason?

[DPG21920]

I am still unsure who to side with. Many valid points on both sides. Proceed so I can make the most informed decision please.

[chazley]

3.5 million a year is less money than Mason made last year. If other teams are going to offer him five million a year, I don't understand why you think he'd take a third off the top of that because he loves San Antonio. He's already said he's not selling his house. Do you really think he's going to give up 5-7 million dollars over the length of his next contract to stay with the Spurs?

You said he's not getting the MLE so you can't make that point. 3.5/4 mil, I'm assuming, is what you'd think he would get from another team. I think the Spurs can afford that and should look into the possibility of giving him a short term contract for those terms.

[ElNono]

Mason has choked in the playoffs, I will give you that, and I don't have a great counter-point for it. The best we can do is hope he shows up the next time.

No, the best we can do is to let that choker walk and find a guy that doesn't choke, nor complains about playing time or demands to be traded...

[chazley]

And as a Spurs fan, you think it would be wise of the Spurs to get caught up in that and throw good money after bad at Mason?

I don't think it's particularly high-risk to 'throw' 3.5/4mil at Mason and possibly get a 40% 3-pt shooter and 8-10 points a game.

[Obstructed_View]

He shores up the backup SG spot and would fit in really well in a 3-guard/2-big lineup, which was highly effective for us at the end of last year.

Anderson, Gee, Ginobili, Hairston, Hill and Temple are all going to be in the mix on that. The only thing Mason might have a prayer of doing is inspiring Pop to start him because he's a veteran and bring Ginobili off the bench while stunting the growth of the young guards on the roster yet another year, or costing one or more of them a spot.

And how effective was the three guard lineup with Mason on the floor at any point during his time with the team? I'd wager that it wasn't, particularly if he's going to cost more than he did the last two years.

[chazley]

No, the best we can do is to let that choker walk and find a guy that doesn't choke, nor complains about playing time or demands to be traded...

March of 09, if you made a list of the most clutch players currently in the NBA, as a Spurs fan, would RMJ not have been top 10 AT LEAST? That was only 15 months ago, and now he's the biggest choker on the planet. I'm not saying I think he's clutch;He needs to prove it during playoff time. However, we know he has it in him.

[Obstructed_View]

You said he's not getting the MLE so you can't make that point.
I didn't make the point, you did. And I'm asking you the following: If you believe that Mason's going to be offered five million dollars a year, do you actually think he'd give 1/3 of it back as a hometown discount?


3.5/4 mil, I'm assuming, is what you'd think he would get from another team. I think the Spurs can afford that and should look into the possibility of giving him a short term contract for those terms.

That's not what you said. You said he'd get as much as five million from other teams. I've already told you that 3.5 million a year is LESS money than he made last season, which means that teams with money to throw around aren't really banking on his becoming the shooter that he was briefly as a Spur.

[chazley]

Anderson, Gee, Ginobili, Hairston, Hill and Temple are all going to be in the mix on that. The only thing Mason might have a prayer of doing is inspiring Pop to start him because he's a veteran and bring Ginobili off the bench while stunting the growth of the young guards on the roster yet another year, or costing one or more of them a spot.

And how effective was the three guard lineup with Mason on the floor at any point during his time with the team? I'd wager that it wasn't, particularly if he's going to cost more than he did the last two years.

I don't have any stats on the 3-guard lineup, but I know that when I saw it, it seemed to be highly effective for us. As a guard who can spot up for 3 and also come off screens, Mason naturally would thrive in those types of lineups.

Also, only threat to take minutes on your list at the backup SG position is Anderson. Gee (longshot), Ginobili (starter, can and will play some PG), Hairston (SF), Hill (very versatile, backup SG is on a long list of positions he will play this year) and Temple (3rd PG). Historically, how does Pop treat rookies who don't play good defense? The outlook on Anderson getting consistent minutes before the All-star break is bleak.

[Obstructed_View]

Well I'm tired of getting my ass handed to me by chazley the troll, so I'll bow out as gracefully as possible and let this thread die a much-deserved and long overdue death.

[chazley]

I didn't make the point, you did. And I'm asking you the following: If you believe that Mason's going to be offered five million dollars a year, do you actually think he'd give 1/3 of it back as a hometown discount?



That's not what you said. You said he'd get as much as five million from other teams. I've already told you that 3.5 million a year is LESS money than he made last season, which means that teams with money to throw around aren't really banking on his becoming the shooter that he was briefly as a Spur.

You can't tell me he's not getting the MLE then use the MLE as a base salary of what he's getting compared to the Spurs. Unless you want to say it's possible he might get it.

Plus, yes, I think if the Spurs offered him 3.5/4mil a year to stay he would take it. That is my own opinion.

[chazley]

Well I'm tired of getting my ass handed to me by chazley the troll, so I'll bow out as gracefully as possible and let this thread die a much-deserved and long overdue death.

Another one bites the dust.

[chazley]

Again, keep in mind I want Mason back in a complimentary, non-starter roll where he can just come in and hit shots, and not play any PG. People I think are going overboard on the roll they think I want him to play on this team.

[ElNono]

March of 09, if you made a list of the most clutch players currently in the NBA, as a Spurs fan, would RMJ not have been top 10 AT LEAST? That was only 15 months ago, and now he's the biggest choker on the planet. I'm not saying I think he's clutch;He needs to prove it during playoff time. However, we know he has it in him.

Playoffs start in May... Bonner is clutch in December too... who cares?

And your 40% 3PT and 8-10 a game is the absolute ceiling for this guy without contemplating the fact that his defense is probably giving most if not all back.
Not to mention that in the playoffs he's a 25% 3PT and 4 ppg guy.

He's entirely one-dimensional, can't create his own shot, can't dribble worth shit, his passing is monumentally bad, unathletic, leaks like a sieve on defense, demands playing time he didn't earn, demands to be traded.

We can do *a lot* better than that.

[ElNono]

Hill is the backup SG... if there's anything we need is an actual solid backup PG in case Temple doesn't show much improvement...

[chazley]

Playoffs start in May... Bonner is clutch in December too... who cares?

And your 40% 3PT and 8-10 a game is the absolute ceiling for this guy without contemplating the fact that his defense is probably giving most if not all back.
Not to mention that in the playoffs he's a 25% 3PT and 4 ppg guy.

He's entirely one-dimensional, can't create his own shot, can't dribble worth shit, his passing is monumentally bad, unathletic, leaks like a sieve on offense, demands playing time he didn't earn, demands to be traded.

We can do *a lot* better than that.

First off, we cannot do better than Mason for the veteran minimum.

Like I said, I cannot make excuses for Mason's playoff resume. It is bad. However, he has shown potential in the regular season that he has clutch ability.

Also, what are you expecting from an 8th-9th man on a team? Of course he's not some dynamic scorer with great athletic ability or passing ability. He does one thing REALLY well, and that is shoot threes. If Mason is playing PG or dribbling, then of course it's a bad thing. Name a championship team in the past 20 years that had a 8-9th man who could do all the things Mason could not, plus all the things he does well. On defense, his lateral quickness is not ideal but he's not Adam Morrison-atrocious on defense.

[chazley]

Also, I'm saying he should play a Brent Barry role on a championship team. I would say his defense was on par with Mason's.

Also, about the whole asking for a trade... his agent inquired about it, it wasn't a huge deal. He never 'demanded' anything.

[ElNono]

First off, we cannot do better than Mason for the veteran minimum.

Replace 25% 3PT and 4ppg? Sure we can. Show me how we can't, backup what you just said.


Like I said, I cannot make excuses for Mason's playoff resume. It is bad. However, he has shown potential in the regular season that he has clutch ability.

No LOB are handed for the regular season championships. He also has shown ample examples how he can't guard anybody, and have the ability to complain about things he hasn't earned on the court.


Also, what are you expecting from an 8th-9th man on a team? Of course he's not some dynamic scorer with great athletic ability or passing ability. He does one thing REALLY well, and that is shoot threes. If Mason is playing PG or dribbling, then of course it's a bad thing. Name a championship team in the past 20 years that had a 8-9th man who could do all the things Mason could not. On defense, his lateral quickness is not ideal but he's not Adam Morrison-atrocious on defense.

For a guy that was bitching about playing time and to be traded if he didn't get his feet on the floor, what makes you think Mason is peachy taking on a 8th-9th man role AT ALL?

This is the complete disconnect from reality you have. Mason not only wants to get paid, he wants to see the floor, when his play hasn't earned that time. We're better served by rolling the dice with somebody else. Whoever that is.

[ElNono]

Also, I'm saying he should play a Brent Barry role on a championship team. I would say his defense was on par with Mason's.

Also, about the whole asking for a trade... his agent inquired about it, it wasn't a huge deal. He never 'demanded' anything.

Brent Barry was a WAY superior shooter than RMJ ever was in the playoffs. Brent Barry also was not the '8th-9th' guy off the bench...

[BadOne]

First off, we cannot do better than Mason for the veteran minimum.

Like I said, I cannot make excuses for Mason's playoff resume. It is bad. However, he has shown potential in the regular season that he has clutch ability.

Also, what are you expecting from an 8th-9th man on a team? Of course he's not some dynamic scorer with great athletic ability or passing ability. He does one thing REALLY well, and that is shoot threes. If Mason is playing PG or dribbling, then of course it's a bad thing. Name a championship team in the past 20 years that had a 8-9th man who could do all the things Mason could not, plus all the things he does well. On defense, his lateral quickness is not ideal but he's not Adam Morrison-atrocious on defense.

I think what ElNono is trying to explain though is that his "potential" isn't worth the investment at this point in his career. If Mason was 22 or younger, then it would make sense, however he's turning 30 this September. For a guy his age, he's way too damn raw and one dimensional. He can't dribble, can't pass, can't create his own shot, can't defend and more importantly, can't take playoff pressure. If you can find a player who possesses 2 out of these virtues as a player, then I agree that we can in fact do much better than RMJ for the veteran minimum. Its a trip this thread has dragged on for this long. Mason's injury is an excuse used for the later portion of this season, however that was not the case against Dallas in the 08-09 playoffs, nor was it in the early part of this season.

[ElNono]

Also, about the whole asking for a trade... his agent inquired about it, it wasn't a huge deal. He never 'demanded' anything.

He communicated through his agent that he wanted more playing time, or if that was not possible to get traded to a team that would give him more playing time. Wether you think that's a big deal or not is irrelevant really. What's a fact is that he was thinking more about himself and his possible future contract than the team going into the upcoming playoffs. And his request was completely unsubstantiated by his play.

[chazley]

You just sound bitter that he asked for a trade, I get that. However, I care about production on the court.

If we combine his two seasons on the Spurs, his averages would be:

9 pts, 38% from 3, 25 MPG.

To expect that exact production from him in maybe less minutes is not a huge stretch like you make it seem. And no one we sign for the veteran minimum will give that to us.

Mason was upset because he literally wasn't seeing the floor at all during stretches of last season. He simply asked his agent to ask the Spurs to see if there was a situation out there would he could get some PT. Nothing was 'demanded'. He still came back and played.

[chazley]

I think what ElNono is trying to explain though is that his "potential" isn't worth the investment at this point in his career. If Mason was 22 or younger, then it would make sense, however he's turning 30 this September. For a guy his age, he's way too damn raw and one dimensional. He can't dribble, can't pass, can't create his own shot, can't defend and more importantly, can't take playoff pressure. If you can find a player who possesses 2 out of these virtues as a player, then I agree that we can in fact do much better than RMJ for the veteran minimum. Its a trip this thread has dragged on for this long. Mason's injury is an excuse used for the later portion of this season, however that was not the case against Dallas in the 08-09 playoffs, nor was it in the early part of this season.

See post #119.

[chazley]

Brent Barry was a WAY superior shooter than RMJ ever was in the playoffs. Brent Barry also was not the '8th-9th' guy off the bench...

Yea, Brent Barry was even more important to the Spurs title teams than RMJ ever will be. Which further proves my point.

[chazley]

Also, Mason shot a combined 84% from the FT line during his Spurs career. That would rate him very highly among all Spurs players (#2 or 3 I believe off the top of my head). That is very important to one of the worst FT teams in the league.

[ElNono]

You just sound bitter that he asked for a trade, I get that. However, I care about production on the court.

I'm not bitter at all. I couldn't care less about ex-Spur Roger Mason JR.
It simply shows his lack of commitment to the team concept that's served us well over the years, period.


If we combine his two seasons on the Spurs, his averages would be:

9 pts, 38% from 3, 25 MPG.


Regular season numbers mean crap. What are his averages for the playoffs?
What are his defensive numbers in that period, regular season or playoffs?

We all can cherry pick to try to make a point.


To expect that exact production from him in maybe less minutes is not a huge stretch like you make it seem. And no one we sign for the veteran minimum will give that to us.

Maybe not in the regular season. But you don't win any ships in the regular season either. Let's look at playoff numbers...


Mason was upset because he literally wasn't seeing the floor at all during stretches of last season. He simply asked his agent to ask the Spurs to see if there was a situation out there would he could get some PT. Nothing was 'demanded'. He still came back and played.

He didn't earn the time on the floor either. He wasn't injured all season and he did get floor time early in the season. His defense was terrible, his shot MIA, and thus he lost his minutes to a better player in Hill. Sucks for him, but he had his chances and he blew it. It makes zero sense for the Spurs to reinvest on a proven choker who cannot play a lick of defense, and simply fills no need for the team.

[ElNono]

Yea, Brent Barry was even more important to the Spurs title teams than RMJ ever will be. Which further proves my point.

You haven't made a point yet. Brent Barry >>>>>>> RMJ. RMJ simply cannot possibly play Brent Barry's role, because he's not even close to the shooter that Barry was in the playoffs.

This is akin to saying we need Bonner back to play Horry's role. There's no such thing. Horry was a superior shooter, defender, and had 20x the basketball IQ that Bonner has. There's simply no comparison.

[ElNono]

Also, Mason shot a combined 84% from the FT line during his Spurs career. That would rate him very highly among all Spurs players (#2 or 3 I believe off the top of my head). That is very important to one of the worst FT teams in the league.

76% FT shooter in the playoffs. Our current SGs:

Hill is a 84% FT shooter in the playoffs
Manu is a 82% FT shooter in the playoffs

Neeeext...

[chazley]

I'm not bitter at all. I couldn't care less about ex-Spur Roger Mason JR.
It simply shows his lack of commitment to the team concept that's served us well over the years, period.

Regular season numbers mean crap. What are his averages for the playoffs?
What are his defensive numbers in that period, regular season or playoffs?

We all can cherry pick to try to make a point.

Maybe not in the regular season. But you don't win any ships in the regular season either. Let's look at playoff numbers...

He didn't earn the time on the floor either. He wasn't injured all season and he did get floor time early in the season. His defense was terrible, his shot MIA, and thus he lost his minutes to a better player in Hill. Sucks for him, but he had his chances and he blew it. It makes zero sense for the Spurs to reinvest on a proven choker who cannot play a lick of defense, and simply fills no need for the team.

RMJ's defensive numbers will obviously be worse than normal. Our whole team wasn't nearly the defensive juggernaut it used to be. Like I said, I want him to be a poor man's Brent Barry, who also couldn't play a lick of defense, but the team defense was phenomenal during his time here and that covered him. This Spurs team is no longer a defensive juggernaut.

I told you, I cannot defend his playoff numbers. However, he will be a 8-9th man, and he has shown the ability to be clutch in the regular season. I have no doubt he could help us win a playoff game or two with his shooting, which for a potential 9th man would be huge.

At the end of the day, RMJ is 30 and this year was the last year he has the potential to get a big contract. To ask his agent to explore if he could get minutes on another team, while it might be somewhat selfish, would be necessary for a role player like himself to set himself up financially for the rest of his life. In no way can I blame him, especially when he earned relatively little before he joined the Spurs.

[chazley]

You haven't made a point yet. Brent Barry >>>>>>> RMJ. RMJ simply cannot possibly play Brent Barry's role, because he's not even close to the shooter that Barry was in the playoffs.

This is akin to saying we need Bonner back to play Horry's role. There's no such thing. Horry was a superior shooter, defender, and had 20x the basketball IQ that Bonner has. There's simply no comparison.

No, Bonner to Horry comparison is nowhere close to RMJ/Barry comparison. You can't make up a comparison between two completely different players to disprove my comparison between two other different players. Also, Bonner is a much better shooter than Horry, just not as clutch. That's another subject though.

I will say you are bringing up some valid points though and I respect your opinion.

[benefactor]

lol...so now he goes from playing the Brent Barry role to being a poor man's Brent Barry.

[chazley]

76% FT shooter in the playoffs. Our current SGs:

Hill is a 84% FT shooter in the playoffs
Manu is a 82% FT shooter in the playoffs

Neeeext...

touche. However, at the end of a close game you cannot only have two good FT shooters on the floor. In those spots Mason would have to step up.

[ElNono]

RMJ's defensive numbers will obviously be worse than normal. Our whole team wasn't nearly the defensive juggernaut it used to be. Like I said, I want him to be a poor man's Brent Barry, who also couldn't play a lick of defense, but the team defense was phenomenal during his time here and that covered him. This Spurs team is no longer a defensive juggernaut.

You can't be a defensive juggernaut when your players leak like a sieve. Since Bowen left, we have needed to improve that, not to keep the status quo. More reasons to let Roger go.


I told you, I cannot defend his playoff numbers. However, he will be a 8-9th man, and he has shown the ability to be clutch in the regular season. I have no doubt he could help us win a playoff game or two with his shooting, which for a potential 9th man would be huge.

If you can't defend his playoff numbers, why do you keep on bringing up his regular season numbers or his clutch ability in the regular season?
'ships are won in the postseason, and he has shown no ability whatsoever to be a contributing factor in those games. I don't know why we suddenly have to have faith that he will somehow show up now. Most importantly, you haven't backed up at all that:

1) He will suddenly be a factor
2) He is better than any of our current SG and thus deserving of floor time
3) He is inclined to be a 8th-9th man on a team

When you substantiate all that, then we can actually break it down.


At the end of the day, RMJ is 30 and this year was the last year he has the potential to get a big contract. To ask his agent to explore if he could get minutes on another team, while it might be somewhat selfish, would be necessary for a role player like himself to set himself up financially for the rest of his life. In no way can I blame him, especially when he earned relatively little before he joined the Spurs.

He didn't earn the minutes, period. It's a disservice to his teammates who busted their asses to be there. But I tell you what. Now he can get a full MLE type of contract and a role on a team that will use him thoroughly. Good for him. Farewell Roger!

[chazley]

lol...so now he goes from playing the Brent Barry role to being a poor man's Brent Barry.

Yes, elnono pointed out that Brent Barry was more important to the 05-07 Spurs championship teams than RMJ will be to any potential championship team. So if he is at least a poor man's Brent Barry, that would be a very good fit for us.

Basically, a poor man's Brent Barry is 38% from 3 and 8-9 pts a game. Mason can bring that.

[ElNono]

touche. However, at the end of a close game you cannot only have two good FT shooters on the floor. In those spots Mason would have to step up.

At the end of close games you want to have the superior defensive players that are also the superior free throw shooters. There's simply no room for RMJ in that scenario.

[benefactor]

JMcDonald_SAEN

Talked to Roger Mason today. Says he's heard from several teams, but #spurs aren't one of them. Chi, NY,Miami, and both LAs on list.

Spurs don't want his ass.

/thread

[ElNono]

No, Bonner to Horry comparison is nowhere close to RMJ/Barry comparison. You can't make up a comparison between two completely different players to disprove my comparison between two other different players. Also, Bonner is a much better shooter than Horry, just not as clutch. That's another subject though.

I will say you are bringing up some valid points though and I respect your opinion.

There is no RMJ/Barry comparison, period. We can look up Barry's numbers in the playoffs and RMJ can't hold a candle to him. And Barry was much more than a situational player. He played a good chunk of minutes in games, including the coveted backup PG position you mention RMJ can't play. You're simply comparing apples to oranges.

[ElNono]

Spurs don't want his ass.

/thread

lol

[chazley]

You can't be a defensive juggernaut when your players leak like a sieve. Since Bowen left, we have needed to improve that, not to keep the status quo. More reasons to let Roger go.

If you can't defend his playoff numbers, why do you keep on bringing up his regular season numbers or his clutch ability in the regular season?
'ships are won in the postseason, and he has shown no ability whatsoever to be a contributing factor in those games. I don't know why we suddenly have to have faith that he will somehow show up now. Most importantly, you haven't backed up at all that:

1) He will suddenly be a factor
2) He is better than any of our current SG and thus deserving of floor time
3) He is inclined to be a 8th-9th man on a team

When you substantiate all that, then we can actually break it down.

He didn't earn the minutes, period. It's a disservice to his teammates who busted their asses to be there. But I tell you what. Now he can get a full MLE type of contract and a role on a team that will use him thoroughly. Good for him. Farewell Roger!

We're basically repeating ourselves here trying to prove the same points over and over again, so I'll respond to this one last time.

1) His combined Spurs career averages of 38% from 3 and 9 PPG are enough to be a 8-9th man on a championship team.

2) He's not better than Ginobili obviously, but Hill is not strictly a SG. He can play SF on defense, and plays PG on both ends of the court also. So, yes, he is capable of giving us 15-20 minutes in a backup SG role and also playing in 3-guard lineups.

3) Again, I cannot defend his playoff resume. I'm tired of repeating myself. I've said he's shown potential in the regular season to be clutch. I believe during playoff games he can have 15-20 point games once or twice that can win us a playoff game.

4) Again about the trade thing, 30-year old NBA players have to look out for themselves at some point. By not getting PT, he was potentially costing himself multi-millions on his next contract. I cannot blame him, and neither can you. When he asked for a trade, the Spurs did not look like a contender, and to ask him to sit on the end of the bench and give up millions for a non-championship team would be selfish.

[chazley]

There is no RMJ/Barry comparison, period. We can look up Barry's numbers in the playoffs and RMJ can't hold a candle to him. And Barry was much more than a situational player. He played a good chunk of minutes in games, including the coveted backup PG position you mention RMJ can't play. You're simply comparing apples to oranges.

If you're going to only look up playoff numbers and not look at the whole picture, then you're being naive. He has literally gotten consistent minutes in a playoff game maybe 4 times during his Spurs career. To say there is no chance he can ever be good on the playoffs is not accurate.

When he got minutes in a playoff game, he was asked to do WAY too much because Tim was playing on one leg and Manu was out. In a setting where his role is defined as 15-20 minutes to come in and hit shots, and not do anything else but play solid defense, he would thrive.

Also, put Brent Barry on that 09 Spurs playoff team as a starter and ask him to do what RMJ was asked to do. He would look terrible too. However, in the role Barry was given, he thrived and was a valuable part of a championship team.

[Blackjack]

I wonder how much ink Vinny Del Negro would've got back in the day had SpursTalk been around . . .

[ElNono]

We're basically repeating ourselves here trying to prove the same points over and over again, so I'll respond to this one last time.

1) His combined Spurs career averages of 38% from 3 and 9 PPG are enough to be a 8-9th man on a championship team.

I'm actually waiting for you to substantiate that he wants to be the 8-9th man on a team, and that the reasons behind your belief that he will shoot 38% from 3 and 9 PPG in the playoffs. Because I look both at his history with our team and his playoffs averages and that's not what it says at all. We're really not going in any circles, you're simply avoiding to answer the questions.


2) He's not better than Ginobili obviously, but Hill is not strictly a SG. He can play SF on defense, and plays PG on both ends of the court also. So, yes, he is capable of giving us 15-20 minutes in a backup SG role and also playing in 3-guard lineups.

Hill cannot play SF on defense against the top teams in the league, which is, not surprisingly, the teams you meet in the playoffs. We've been attempting to address the SF conundrum for a long time now. We had Richard Jefferson last year, and he didn't work out. The 3 guard lineup was basically small-ball, which lost us more games than won us last season (if you even care to look at the numbers, that HarlemHeat provided kindly for us throughout the season). It's something to be avoided, not encouraged. Luckily, if we manage to sign up a guy like Splitter, we'll be able to get away from it more often. And even if we were to play a 3 guard lineup, that would include your 3 best guards: TP, Manu and Hill. Hill actually shoots the 3 ball better than RMJ during the playoffs, not to mention that even if not great, is the much better defender.


3) Again, I cannot defend his playoff resume. I'm tired of repeating myself. I've said he's shown potential in the regular season to be clutch. I believe during playoff games he can have 15-20 point games once or twice that can win us a playoff game.

So we should just take your gut feeling... because he hasn't been any of that historically... okaaayyy...


4) Again about the trade thing, 30-year old NBA players have to look out for themselves at some point. By not getting PT, he was potentially costing himself multi-millions on his next contract. I cannot blame him, and neither can you. When he asked for a trade, the Spurs did not look like a contender, and to ask him to sit on the end of the bench and give up millions for a non-championship team would be selfish.

I don't care what he was costing himself. I don't pay for tickets to watch the Spurs or the League Pass to see if RMJ is happy with his role or his minutes. He had his chances, and he simply blew it. There was no doubt whatsoever in anybody's mind that Hill was the superior player and he needed to get the minutes over RMJ. And the Spurs were actually on a decent run at the time. It was during the time when Manu was peaking, with wins over Orlando, the Cavs and the Lakers, before Manu received his extension.

[chazley]

I'm actually waiting for you to substantiate that he wants to be the 8-9th man on a team, and that the reasons behind your belief that he will shoot 38% from 3 and 9 PPG in the playoffs. Because I look both at his history with our team and his playoffs averages and that's not what it says at all. We're really not going in any circles, you're simply avoiding to answer the questions.



Hill cannot play SF on defense against the top teams in the league, which is, not surprisingly, the teams you meet in the playoffs. We've been attempting to address the SF conundrum for a long time now. We had Richard Jefferson last year, and he didn't work out. The 3 guard lineup was basically small-ball, which lost us more games than won us last season (if you even care to look at the numbers, that HarlemHeat provided kindly for us throughout the season). It's something to be avoided, not encouraged. Luckily, if we manage to sign up a guy like Splitter, we'll be able to get away from it more often. And even if we were to play a 3 guard lineup, that would include your 3 best guards: TP, Manu and Hill. Hill actually shoots the 3 ball better than RMJ during the playoffs, not to mention that even if not great, is the much better defender.



So we should just take your gut feeling... because he hasn't been any of that historically... okaaayyy...



I don't care what he was costing himself. I don't pay for tickets to watch the Spurs or the League Pass to see if RMJ is happy with his role or his minutes. He had his chances, and he simply blew it. There was no doubt whatsoever in anybody's mind that Hill was the superior player and he needed to get the minutes over RMJ. And the Spurs were actually on a decent run at the time. It was during the time when Manu was peaking, with wins over Orlando, the Cavs and the Lakers, before Manu received his extension.

I'm not avoiding any questions. RMJ in 09 playoffs was asked to do way too much being asked to be the 3rd best player on our team. Of course his numbers sucked, he's never gonna be the 3rd best player on a winning team. My reason behind the 9 pts and 38% from 3... those are his averages from his Spurs career.

TP/Manu/Hill don't space the floor enough in a 3-guard set. You have to have a shooter in there, aka RMJ. Also, there is a difference between 3-guard, 2 big lineup and a 3 guard-SF-big lineup. The 3guard/2big lineup was very successful for us at times this year.

Also, not my 'gut feeling' that he is capable of contributing as a 8-9th man on a playoff team. I'm using examples of regular season averages and clutchness he has shown as proof that he is capable of it.

Plus, RMJ asked for a trade before or during the all-star break when the Spurs looked like a first round exit at best, and some on this board were calling for us to tank. Manu didn't start going off until after the ASB.

[ElNono]

If you're going to only look up playoff numbers and not look at the whole picture, then you're being naive. He has literally gotten consistent minutes in a playoff game maybe 4 times during his Spurs career. To say there is no chance he can ever be good on the playoffs is not accurate.

He got over 20 MPG during 5 games in 08-09. That's consistent minutes. His production over those minutes simply didn't warrant that much time.
In 09-10 he didn't get the minutes simply because there was a better player in front of him. That player is still in the roster, which makes RMJ simply not needed.


When he got minutes in a playoff game, he was asked to do WAY too much because Tim was playing on one leg and Manu was out. In a setting where his role is defined as 15-20 minutes to come in and hit shots, and not do anything else but play solid defense, he would thrive.

He can't play solid defense. We already have two players that plays in his position, play better defense than him, shoot better than him, can also fill in the backup PG spot that he can't fill in. There's simply no room for RMJ in this Spurs team as a playoff contributor (or otherwise, really)


Also, put Brent Barry on that 09 Spurs playoff team as a starter and ask him to do what RMJ was asked to do. He would look terrible too. However, in the role Barry was given, he thrived and was a valuable part of a championship team.

Barry was our backup PG for quite a while, something RMJ can't even dream of doing. And while I don't think Barry would have avoided us to be eliminated by Dallas in 09, I'm absolutely positively sure he would have contributed much more than RMJ. In 4 playoffs runs with the Spurs, Barry only shot less than 40% from 3 point land in only one season, posting averages of 50% and 46% in the playoffs in two of the runs. Again, numbers RMJ can't hold a candle to.

[chazley]

He got over 20 MPG during 5 games in 08-09. That's consistent minutes. His production over those minutes simply didn't warrant that much time.
In 09-10 he didn't get the minutes simply because there was a better player in front of him. That player is still in the roster, which makes RMJ simply not needed.

He can't play solid defense. We already have two players that plays in his position, play better defense than him, shoot better than him, can also fill in the backup PG spot that he can't fill in. There's simply no room for RMJ in this Spurs team as a playoff contributor (or otherwise, really)

Barry was our backup PG for quite a while, something RMJ can't even dream of doing. And while I don't think Barry would have avoided us to be eliminated by Dallas in 09, I'm absolutely positively sure he would have contributed much more than RMJ. In 4 playoffs runs with the Spurs, Barry only shot less than 40% from 3 point land in only one season, posting averages of 50% and 46% in the playoffs in two of the runs. Again, numbers RMJ can't hold a candle to.

Sorry, but the Mavs defense was keyed on Mason and never left his hip because we had no firepower in 09 and they let TP and a limping TD try to beat us. Same thing would've happened if Barry played on that team in 09, and he would've posted similar numbers. Plus, Barry had the luxury of having wide-open 3s his entire Spurs career, playing with the best 3-headed monster of the decade in their prime. Mason never had that luxury. This year we will have alot more firepower though, and I feel that in a non-backup PG role, he can shoot well above 40% from 3.

Again, there's always a spot on the floor for a 40% 3pt shooter.

Also again, his 20 MPG were spent with someone attached on his hip. He's not skilled enough to be the 3rd best player on any NBA team. He was asked to be that on the 09 Spurs playoff team. In a supporting role where he can just hit shots, he will play alot better.

[ElNono]

I'm not avoiding any questions. RMJ in 09 playoffs was asked to do way too much being asked to be the 3rd best player on our team. Of course his numbers sucked, he's never gonna be the 3rd best player on a winning team. My reason behind the 9 pts and 38% from 3 on the regular season... those are his averages from his Spurs career.

fify

You still haven't answered:
2) He is better than any of our current SG and thus deserving of floor time
3) He is inclined to be a 8th-9th man on a team


TP/Manu/Hill don't space the floor enough in a 3-guard set. You have to have a shooter in there, aka RMJ. Also, there is a difference between 3-guard, 2 big lineup and a 3 guard-SF-big lineup. The 3guard/2big lineup was very successful for us at times this year.

But RMJ has not demonstrated to be the better shooter. In the playoffs:

RMJ: 32% 3PT shooter

Hill: 37% 3PT shooter
Ginobili: 37% 3PT shooter



Also, not my 'gut feeling' that he is capable of contributing as a 8-9th man on a playoff team. I'm using examples of regular season averages and clutchness he has shown as proof that he is capable of it.

Does not compute. His regular season averages are proof that he's a capable playoff contributor, even though his playoff averages do not substantiate this at all. Gotcha.


Plus, RMJ asked for a trade before or during the all-star break when the Spurs looked like a first round exit at best, and some on this board were calling for us to tank. Manu didn't start going off until after the ASB.

Still doesn't debunk the fact that he didn't earn his minutes, and that Hill was and still is the better player for earning those minutes.

[ElNono]

Sorry, but the Mavs defense was keyed on Mason and never left his hip because we had no firepower in 09 and they let TP and a limping TD try to beat us. Same thing would've happened if Barry played on that team in 09, and he would've posted similar numbers. Plus, Barry had the luxury of having wide-open 3s his entire Spurs career, playing with the best 3-headed monster of the decade in their prime. Mason never had that luxury. This year we will have alot more firepower though, and I feel that in a non-backup PG role, he can shoot well above 40% from 3.

They sure left his hip to score at will over and around him. Now, I'm not going to say that Barry wouldn't have been the same thing defensively, but besides of Barry being the better shooter, he contributed in other ways, including running the backup PG position. Something you agree RMJ could never possibly do.


Again, there's always a spot on the floor for a 40% 3pt shooter.

He's a 32% 3pt shooter when it matters.


Also again, his 20 MPG were spent with someone attached on his hip. He's not skilled enough to be the 3rd best player on any NBA team. He was asked to be that on the 09 Spurs playoff team. In a supporting role where he can just hit shots, he will play alot better.

Doesn't matter. That was not his last season. When Ginobili came back and he was given a chance not being the 3rd best player on the team, he got outplayed for the position by Hill.

[chazley]

El Nono, no doubt you're a fine poster, but you're not taking into consideration any of the facts I am providing and instead are recycling things you have already said over and over again. I get the fact he has not produced in the playoffs. Again, I gave reasons for this, and you failed to respond to those.

Is he better than Hill or Ginobili? No. Are Hill or Ginobili capable of playing any one of 3 positions for at least a short stint during any game? Yes. Neither player is restricted to playing SG and neither of them will play SG exclusively the whole game.

Hill's 3pt% is going to be higher than Mason's b/c he gets a majority of those 3s on wide open corner 3s. Mason in 08-09 rarely saw an open 3 in the playoffs because he couldn't play off the big 3, and in 09-10 didn't get playoff minutes because he was injured, and therefore was ineffective.

[chazley]

Also, we're talking about a 15-20 minute player who's role is not to come in and be a lockdown defender. It's to open up the floor on offense. When he plays, he will in turn be guarding bench players from the opposing team.

You expect way too much out of a 8-9th man. You're arguing that he's not a player of Hill's/Ginobili's caliber. Of course he isn't. I want him to play the role of a spot up shooter and maybe come off a few screens, and give good effort on the defensive end. Give us 15-20 good minutes. The way our roster is shaping up, Hill/Gino/Anderson are going to be asked to play alot of positions because we don't have a solid backup SF/PG. There will be minutes at that backup SG spot.

[SenorSpur]

Brent Barry was a WAY superior shooter than RMJ ever was in the playoffs. Brent Barry also was not the '8th-9th' guy off the bench...

I'd even settle for the current 2010 version of NBATV Brent Barry, before RMJ. Come to think of it, I'd also take Brent's dad, Rick over RMJ, too.:lol

[ElNono]

El Nono, no doubt you're a fine poster, but you're not taking into consideration any of the facts I am providing and instead are recycling things you have already said over and over again. I get the fact he has not produced in the playoffs. Again, I gave reasons for this, and you failed to respond to those.

I've addresses every single post you made. Please let me know what part you think I've not addressed and I'll be happy to. In the meantime, I would ask you to reciprocate, and answer the parts you still have not addressed from my posts, namely:

3) He is inclined to be a 8th-9th man on a team


Is he better than Hill or Ginobili? No. Are Hill or Ginobili capable of playing any one of 3 positions for at least a short stint during any game? Yes. Neither player is restricted to playing SG and neither of them will play SG exclusively the whole game.

Considering TP plays nearly 33 mpg, Hill or Manu only have to fill in for 15 mins on the backup PG spot. Neither Manu or Hill can really play consistent minutes at the SF spot (at least not against teams that matter), so I would say that yeah, Manu and Hill will basically play all the SG spot minutes out there. Even Tony has filled in on the SG spot at times with Hill running the point. The only place I see for a one-trick-pony like Mason is on a situational play, but again, Hill is actually the better shooter, so he can definitely fill that role.


Hill's 3pt% is going to be higher than Mason's b/c he gets a majority of those 3s on wide open corner 3s. Mason in 08-09 rarely saw an open 3 in the playoffs because he couldn't play off the big 3, and in 09-10 didn't get playoff minutes because he was injured, and therefore was ineffective.

Mason played with the big 3 in the past season without being injured and Hill simply played better and shot better (FWIW, Mason actually played in more games than Hill last season, albeit less minutes. That said, almost 20 mpg is nothing to sneeze at).

[ElNono]

Also, we're talking about a 15-20 minute player who's role is not to come in and be a lockdown defender. It's to open up the floor on offense. When he plays, he will in turn be guarding bench players from the opposing team.

You expect way too much out of a 8-9th man. You're arguing that he's not a player of Hill's/Ginobili's caliber. Of course he isn't. I want him to play the role of a spot up shooter and maybe come off a few screens, and give good effort on the defensive end. Give us 15-20 good minutes. The way our roster is shaping up, Hill/Gino/Anderson are going to be asked to play alot of positions because we don't have a solid backup SF/PG. There will be minutes at that backup SG spot.

You simply haven't established that Mason wants to be on a 8th-9th man role. Please do tell me where you get this idea from. 5 months ago Mason wanted more floor time.
Also, a 8th-9th man doesn't see 15-20 minutes on the floor. Not when you have Ginobili-Hill in front of you (Manu 25 mpg, hill 33 mpg.. that breaks down to 48 mins for SG and 10 mins for backup PG)

[Blackjack]

This thread is on its way to 7 pages. ... Vinny Del Negro is rolling over in his grave.

[chazley]

I've never seen Mason demand to be a starter. You're asking me to prove something that is impossible to answer unless I asked RMJ personally. He asked to get traded because he was the 12th man in a contract year at that point. You should have to prove to me that he wouldn't accept coming off the bench, especially on a team where Manu comes off the bench. Plus, you're assuming Hill/Manu both play 82 games, and Tony plays 82 games at 38 minutes per game given your numbers. There's also minutes at SF that I expect Hill/Manu might take. Plus, like I've mentioned, I expect us to play some 3-guard lineups this year which would open up even more minutes at the guard position. In the playoffs, 10-15 minutes for Mason would be good, and up to 20 during the regular season, even more than that if he's hot.

[ElNono]

I've never seen Mason demand to be a starter.

I never claimed he asked for that.

Mason played nearly 20 mpg last season, before and after his injury, and he played 79 games overall. He played more early in the season, with the big 3, and performing worse than Hill, who eventually claimed his spot.


You're asking me to prove something that is impossible to answer unless I asked RMJ personally.

Which proves the fact that you're building your entire case on something you don't even know that Mason would be willing to do.


He asked to get traded because he was the 12th man in a contract year at that point. You should have to prove to me that he wouldn't accept coming off the bench, especially on a team where Manu comes off the bench.

I think he would want to come off the bench, but not behind Ginobili or Hill, which would basically be the same situation he was in last season. There simply isn't enough minutes for him for what he brings to the team.


Plus, you're assuming Hill/Manu both play 82 games, and Tony plays 82 games at 38 minutes per game given your numbers.

No, I'm assuming that they take the bulk of the games and minutes, which is indeed what happens. Those numbers I posted are indeed the regular season averages for TP, Manu and Hill. So yeah, that's the minutes they play. Those numbers actually increase during the playoffs (at least in Manu's case) which actually mean less minutes for Roger. Furthermore, it would be a disservice to hand out millions for regular-season-only players. Might aswell use the kids we drafted as filler for those games where those guys can't play.


There's also minutes at SF that I expect Hill/Manu might take. Plus, like I've mentioned, I expect us to play some 3-guard lineups this year which would open up even more minutes at the guard position.

That position was a lock for RJ last season, except when he moved to the cameo PF position. We shouldn't need to play any more cameo PF if Splitter signs up and Blair keeps on improving. We do have a problem on the SF spot, which I expect the team to address if we can manage to S&T for RJ. If we don't then we'll have a hole there. RMJ is not the answer to that hole though.
And yeah, maybe Manu/Hill will play SF against the Timberwolves or the Clippers. That doesn't mean we need to pay RMJ to be the third guard against those teams. They simply won't play SF against playoff teams because we would effectively giving the other team a huge advantage, and they're simply more effective playing somewhere else.


In the playoffs, 10-15 minutes for Mason would be good, and up to 20 during the regular season, even more than that if he's hot.

In some other team, sure.

[tuncaboylu]

@Chazley, Why don't we give a chance to our new draftee James Anderson instead of Mason tihs year? We know what RMJ can provide us next year and it's not too much as it seems. So we have a new guy with high potential and maybe(most probably) he will be a better player than RMJ in the future. So why should we sign a long term contract with RMJ and take the chance of James?

The only benefit of RMJ would be a sign&trade to Spurs. It seems there are some teams who want to sign him, we can get a swingman which they don't use in exchange of RMJ.

[chazley]

@Chazley, Why don't we give a chance to our new draftee James Anderson instead of Mason tihs year? We know what RMJ can provide us next year and it's not too much as it seems. So we have a new guy with high potential and maybe(most probably) he will be a better player than RMJ in the future. So why should we sign a long term contract with RMJ and take the chance of James?

The only benefit of RMJ would be a sign&trade to Spurs. It seems there are some teams who want to sign him, we can get a swingman which they don't use in exchange of RMJ.

Pop historically plays vets over rookies. Anderson, from scouting reports I've heard, might struggle on defense in the beginning. That means very little minutes for him.

[chazley]

ElNono, let me know when you find another 40% 3pt shooter to replace RMJ. Until then I'm done rehashing my points.

[tuncaboylu]

Pop historically plays vets over rookies. Anderson, from scouting reports I've heard, might struggle on defense in the beginning. That means very little minutes for him.

Your "Pop historically plays vets over rookies" comment proves that not keeping RMJ is better for the team:

If we can't find a good enough veteran to replace RMJ by paying veteran minimum(This is which you're claiming from the beginning), so he's going to use James Anderson.(There is no choice for him)

If we keep both RMJ and James Anderson on roster, he will play with RMJ(due to your hypothesis on your last post) and it will avoid James Anderson's progress.

So by going straight from your sentences, keeping RMJ won't be good for this team.

[Chieflion]

Pop historically plays vets over rookies. Anderson, from scouting reports I've heard, might struggle on defense in the beginning. That means very little minutes for him.

And Roger Mason doesn't have his lapses on defense? Last I checked, Anderson was a pretty good defender when he didn't have to be the focal point of a team, unlike a certain player called Roger Mason.

[chazley]

Your "Pop historically plays vets over rookies" comment proves that not keeping RMJ is better for the team:

If we can't find a good enough veteran to replace RMJ by paying veteran minimum(This is which you're claiming from the beginning), so he's going to use James Anderson.(There is no choice for him)

If we keep both RMJ and James Anderson on roster, he will play with RMJ(due to your hypothesis on your last post) and it will avoid James Anderson's progress.

So by going straight from your sentences, keeping RMJ won't be good for this team.

For this year, I'd rather have a veteran getting minutes than an unproven rookie.

[chazley]

And Roger Mason doesn't have his lapses on defense? Last I checked, Anderson was a pretty good defender when he didn't have to be the focal point of a team, unlike a certain player called Roger Mason.

Veterans don't get pulled because of their defense anymore. Case in point: Finley.

[Chieflion]

Veterans don't get pulled because of their defense anymore. Case in point: Finley.

Doesn't make it right either. You don't have to twist reasons to convince others that Roger Mason is good for the team.

[Muser]

:lmao using Finley as a point to bring RMJ back.

[Interrohater]

I'm not sure why it's hard to understand that RMJ sucks. He was great when he got here, but he fizzled out in the playoffs. Who cares about his lack of minutes? What's that old cliche that players use when asked about their lack of playing time? "I'm just staying ready, mentally and physically to come in and give it my all when coach calls my number."
RMJ couldn't do it. I don't care if he's the 8th, 9th, 12th man... He's a professional basketball player and if he can't do the job he's being paid to do, such as hit a 3pt shot, then it's time to move on. So he sucked in the playoffs in 09 because he was being "keyed on", yet he continued that suck during the regular season of 09-10. I highly doubt that he was being "Keyed on" during the regular season and he still was struggling to find his shot.
I think you're (Chaz) making a huge mistake thinking that all of the posters on here hated him all season. We were all rooting for him to come out of his slump. He never did. There's a point where you have to cut your losses and look elsewhere (Hence the drafting of Anderson). He's provided us some great memories, but it wasn't enough. He's gotta go.

[benefactor]

I'm not sure why this thread has gone as far as it has. Even if one can stretch to make some sort of argument for Mason, there are two very big reasons why he is not coming back.

The Spurs do not have the money to sign him. Mason is not signing for the vet minimum and probably not the LLE either. This is all the Spurs have at thier disposal and if they do use the LLE they will use it on a veteran SF as that is currently the position that is the thinnest.

The Spurs do not want his ass. Him going all emo and asking to be traded put the nails in his coffin with the Spurs...and from his own mouth he has said that they have not contacted him.

/thread

[ElNono]

ElNono, let me know when you find another 40% 3pt shooter to replace RMJ. Until then I'm done rehashing my points.

You and your thread were done about 6 pages ago.

RMJ is not coming back, for reasons I and others have extensively explained to you in this thread. That you choose to be oblivious to them is really your problem.

And we already have two other 37% shooters (when it matters, when RMJ only shoots 32%) that are both better defenders and more versatile.

So it's really not surprising at all that the Spurs are not looking to bring Roger back. Good luck to him wherever he ends up in.

[ElNono]

Because I'm grasping at straws, I'd rather have a veteran getting minutes than an unproven rookie.

fify

[Brazil]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

chazley alias Roger shitting troll on ST hilarious

Mason :lmao full MLE :lmao:lmao

[DrSteffo]

I will ask a local team here in Sweden to sign RMJ. They could offer him free meals on game days and free bus rides to games. Maybe they can offer him some pocket money as well. Problem is they already have a couple of pure shooters so they don't really need him.

[UnWantedTheory]

YO CHAZ!!!!!

Has there been one person to actually agree with you?...or are we all just ignorant Mason haters? If so, than I guess we should all just bow down to the CHAZMANIA!!!!

[Obstructed_View]

He is the #1 poster, after all.

[chazley]

Don't hate on me even though I went 15 on 1 in this thread and held my own, if not won the discussion. I definitely didn't lose the argument. ElNoNo came the closest to winning, but he consistently ignored everything except playoffs statistics, when Roger only got consistent minutes in 08-09 and only for about 3-4 games. Anyone is capable of having 3 bad games in a row, especially a shooter like Mason who was asked to play PG and be the 3rd best player on a winning team, which he is not capable of. It was simply too much to ask of him.

I know the Spurs are not resigning him, I just explained why they should have.

[Brazil]

Don't hate on me even though I went 15 on 1 in this thread and held my own, if not won the discussion. I definitely didn't lose the argument. ElNoNo came the closest to winning, but he consistently ignored everything except playoffs statistics, when Roger only got consistent minutes in 08-09 and only for about 3-4 games. Anyone is capable of having 3 bad games in a row, especially a shooter like Mason who was asked to play PG and be the 3rd best player on a winning team, which he is not capable of. It was simply too much to ask of him.

I know the Spurs are not resigning him, I just explained why they should have.

Roger come on, don't give up now you're close to get your 20 pages thread

[benefactor]

I know the Spurs are not resigning him, I just explained why they should have.
The Spurs aren't signing LeBron James either...that's why no one talks about why they should.

You lose.

/thread

[Seventyniner]

Don't hate on me even though I went 15 on 1 in this thread and held my own, if not won the discussion. I definitely didn't lose the argument. ElNoNo came the closest to winning...

Wish I could find the actual strip from Calvin & Hobbes:

Calvin: "When a person pauses in mid-sentence to choose a word, that's the best time to jump in and change the subject! It's like an interception in football! You grab the other guy's idea and run the opposite way with it! The more sentences you complete, the higher your score! The idea is to block the other guy's thoughts and express your own! That's how you win!"

Hobbes: "Conversations aren't contests!"

Calvin: "OK, a point for you, but I'm still ahead."

[Obstructed_View]

Don't hate on me even though I went 15 on 1 in this thread and held my own, if not won the discussion.

Denial's a good tactic. You must be a mavfan in real life.

[Mel_13]

Don't hate on me even though I went 15 on 1 in this thread and held my own, if not won the discussion. I definitely didn't lose the argument. ElNoNo came the closest to winning, but he consistently ignored everything except playoffs statistics, when Roger only got consistent minutes in 08-09 and only for about 3-4 games. Anyone is capable of having 3 bad games in a row, especially a shooter like Mason who was asked to play PG and be the 3rd best player on a winning team, which he is not capable of. It was simply too much to ask of him.

I know the Spurs are not resigning him, I just explained why they should have.

That's almost as far removed from reality as RMJ for the full MLE.

:lmao

[DrSteffo]

Don't hate on me even though I went 15 on 1 in this thread and held my own, if not won the discussion. I definitely didn't lose the argument. ElNoNo came the closest to winning, but he consistently ignored everything except playoffs statistics, when Roger only got consistent minutes in 08-09 and only for about 3-4 games. Anyone is capable of having 3 bad games in a row, especially a shooter like Mason who was asked to play PG and be the 3rd best player on a winning team, which he is not capable of. It was simply too much to ask of him.

I know the Spurs are not resigning him, I just explained why they should have.

https://zone.artizans.com/images/previews/TOO1081.pvw.jpg

[chazley]

Haters gonna hate. No one made a point that I didn't have a good response to. The fact is, there's only 2 or 3 really good posters on this forum and I can dominate everyone else. If someone else makes a good argument that beats mine, or makes a good point, I'm willing to accept it. However, I crushed everyone who came my way in this thread and no one other than ElNono had a good argument. Everyone else just came in to bash me or RMJ while proving they don't have the knowledge to back me up.

It's amazing how people with thousands of posts cant say something with more substance than 'get out' or 'you suck'. If you can't post something thoughtful then leave before I own you.

[chazley]

The Spurs aren't signing LeBron James either...that's why no one talks about why they should.

You lose.

/thread

Lebron wasn't on the Spurs last year. Terrible comparison.

[Shastafarian]

The Spurs Front Office feels they don't need RMJ back. You lose.

[Mel_13]

Lebron wasn't on the Spurs last year. Terrible comparison.

Let me guess.

This is an example of you owning another poster in this thread.

:rolleyes

[chazley]

Let me guess.

This is an example of you owning another poster in this thread.

:rolleyes

Mel, I'll make you a deal, stop coming in here just to bash me and this thread will die. As I said, I've already won, there's no need for you to keep this thread alive. If all you want to do is troll, you're doing a fine job because you never post anything of substance.

[chazley]

He is the #1 poster, after all.

Thank you.

[Chieflion]

chazley is so dedicated to his craft. 61 posts in this thread. That is almost half of his posts on Spurstalk.

[chazley]

chazley is so dedicated to his craft. 61 posts in this thread. That is almost half of his posts on Spurstalk.

Don't hate, appreciate.

[Mel_13]

Mel, I'll make you a deal, stop coming in here just to bash me and this thread will die. As I said, I've already won, there's no need for you to keep this thread alive. If all you want to do is troll, you're doing a fine job because you never post anything of substance.

You have no appreciation for irony, do you? This thread has had dozens of chances to die, only to be resurrected by you. Each time you bump the thread you're asking for a response. If you truly wanted the thread to die, all you have to do is never post in it again. Then it will finally die the death it richly deserves.

[chazley]

Like I said, if you stop posting in it it will die. Your posts are useless and have no value, just leave.

I already won the argument, and no one is left to argue with me. All you want to do is bash me.

[chazley]

Denial's a good tactic. You must be a mavfan in real life.

Post one example where someone had a point that I didn't have a valid response to. Just one.

[Mel_13]

Like I said, if you stop posting in it it will die. Your posts are useless and have no value, just leave.

I already won the argument, and no one is left to argue with me. All you want to do is bash me.

:lmao

You declared victory, you won nothing.

What next, are you going to bump your threads extolling the virtues of Bonner and Jeffries?

[tuncaboylu]

Haters gonna hate. No one made a point that I didn't have a good response to. The fact is, there's only 2 or 3 really good posters on this forum and I can dominate everyone else. If someone else makes a good argument that beats mine, or makes a good point, I'm willing to accept it. However, I crushed everyone who came my way in this thread and no one other than ElNono had a good argument. Everyone else just came in to bash me or RMJ while proving they don't have the knowledge to back me up.

It's amazing how people with thousands of posts cant say something with more substance than 'get out' or 'you suck'. If you can't post something thoughtful then leave before I own you.

You may think that you dominated everyone here. You may be happy by thinking you crashed everyone but our aim is not crash the other users in this forum, we're trying to share our ideas.

But you couldn't do what you should do. Nobody think that you're right and also nobody even didn't confused about RMJ after reading you. So you couldn't convince anyone and you're not successful.

I will summarize your states in your 61 posts under this thread:
- We need a 3 pointer and RMJ is %37 shooter.
- RMJ is a good SG but Pop used him as PG this year.
- RMJ was good at playing SG in 2009 but couldn't do well in 2010 because playing in PG
- We can't replace him by paying LLE.

This can be explain in 1 or 2 posts but you did it 61 times by saying the same thing in different ways. Everyone is bored here and they are pissed of giving the same response to your message. Only EricB told you RMJ's %37 three point avergae doesn't mean too much, because it was %32 in play-offs at least 4 times. But you have stated %37 again and again until the other users stops to give same answer.

[Shastafarian]

The Spurs Front Office feels they don't need RMJ back. You lose.

[chazley]

You may think that you dominated everyone here. You may be happy by thinking you crashed everyone but our aim is not crash the other users in this forum, we're trying to share our ideas.

But you couldn't do what you should do. Nobody think that you're right and also nobody even didn't confused about RMJ after reading you. So you couldn't convince anyone and you're not successful.

I will summarize your states in your 61 posts under this thread:
- We need a 3 pointer and RMJ is %37 shooter.
- RMJ is a good SG but Pop used him as PG this year.
- RMJ was good at playing SG in 2009 but couldn't do well in 2010 because playing in PG
- We can't replace him by paying LLE.



This can be explain in 1 or 2 posts but you did it 61 times by saying the same thing in different ways. Everyone is bored here and they are pissed of giving the same response to your message. Only EricB told you RMJ's %37 three point avergae doesn't mean too much, because it was %32 in play-offs at least 4 times. But you have stated %37 again and again until the other users stops to give same answer.

About half that post is wrong. However, I appreciate you taking the time to read through some of the thread.

Basically, I said RMJ shot 42% and 12 points from 3 his first Spurs season, and I think that expecting 8-9 ppg and 38% from 3 is not out of the question if he goes back to his role as a SG.

Plus, when you 'summarize' my thoughts, even though somewhat inaccurately, you don't bring up any counter points. People have tried, unsuccessfully, to counter point what I have brought up to no avail, so I don't blame you for not trying to do so.

I don't mind admitting I'm wrong and changing my viewpoints, but people are trying to argue with me that we can find a better shooter for a vet minimum.

I'm saying he is a viable 8th/9th man on a championship team. Everyone expects him to be a Manu or Wade, which he will never come close to being obviously. If he can't do anything other than shoot 3's at a good rate, that alone is very valuable to a championship team.

[Shastafarian]

So if we're basing this completely off shooting (defense doesn't count right?) why not go after Luther Head. He's a better shooter who could probably be had for very little money. Oh and the Spurs FO hasn't already ruled him as far as we know. That's something he has over RMJ. :lol

[Chieflion]

His defense is atrocious, but it doesn't matter cause Finley's defense sucks too. Wonder what happened to that guy and his playing time this season.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Chazley dude, you make a bit of sense and I think re-signing him would not be such a bad thing as long as we keep him as a 2-guard and don't expect him to be a star. However, you forgot something very important:

Mason is the 'it' guy to hate right now so no one is going to have anything positive to say about him.

[Mel_13]

I don't mind admitting I'm wrong and changing my viewpoints, but people are trying to argue with me that we can find a better shooter for a vet minimum.

I'm saying he is a viable 8th/9th man on a championship team. .

This is the crux of the issue. The premise is faulty as I pointed out in my first response in this thread. Any argument based on that faulty premise will be flawed. Clearly you don't recognize this as you have simply repeated the same thing over and over again and declared yourself victorious. Then you take offense when others find that approach humorous.

[Blackjack]

Ya know what just happened?

I just owned chazz.

Yeah ... that just happened. :elephant

[chazley]

Chazley dude, you make a bit of sense and I think re-signing him would not be such a bad thing as long as we keep him as a 2-guard and don't expect him to be a star. However, you forgot something very important:

Mason is the 'it' guy to hate right now so no one is going to have anything positive to say about him.

Yea, I know, it's fun to argue with these guys who don't know what they're talking about though. They think guys who shoot 40% from 3 are available anywhere for the vet minimum and that those guys aren't valuable as 8th/9th best players on a championship team. It's so funny, people on these boards get super excited about a guy like James Jones, but completely dismiss that he, too, is terrible on defense, but don't hold that against him.

Also, Mason is not atrocious on defense. He doesn't have good lateral quickness, but he gives the effort at least. His defense is just emphasized because our team defense as a hole isn't nearly what is was back in the day.

[chazley]

This is the crux of the issue. The premise is faulty as I pointed out in my first response in this thread. Any argument based on that faulty premise will be flawed. Clearly you don't recognize this as you have simply repeated the same thing over and over again and declared yourself victorious. Then you take offense when others find that approach humorous.

What is faulty about it? We have no cap room, but we can resign our own players for above the vet minimum. It is not flawed, and it is the base point for my argument.

[DrSteffo]

Dear troll, I will explain why your arguments are not valid: they suffer from severe selection bias. First you choose a single attribute (shooting), then you select the stat that best suits your own opinion (ignoring the most recent and relevant stat). Do you understand that by selecting very specific info and ignoring all other info you can "prove" virtually anything? Do you understand that this doesn't mean shit, if for example a certain player sucks and makes opponents go :downspin: and fans go :bang? when he is on the floor?

Also if you don't want other people to think that you are a kid, don't use the words "hate" and "own" quite as often.

That being said, this thread is so stupid it is/was kind of funny.

[UnWantedTheory]

His arrogance is only second to his stupidity. Chaz seems to think the professionals are wrong. All bow down to Sir Chaz!!!! You have declared yourself victorious!!!! Too bad no one else thinks so. But hey!!! We are all kings in our own mind my friend.

[UnWantedTheory]

Keep it going bro., your stupidity entertains us.

[benefactor]

Lebron wasn't on the Spurs last year. Terrible comparison.
That doesn't matter. Neither have the possibility of playing here next season so having any sort of discussion about how they would help is a waste of time. Game over. Congrats on your fail.

[chazley]

haha, love seeing everyone so bitter about me dominating some of the big posters on SpursTalk. This is fun.

The best part is people trying to say I'm wrong and stupid without having a discussion with me. Too funny.

[chazley]

Dear troll, I will explain why your arguments are not valid: they suffer from severe selection bias. First you choose a single attribute (shooting), then you select the stat that best suits your own opinion (ignoring the most recent and relevant stat). Do you understand that by selecting very specific info and ignoring all other info you can "prove" virtually anything? Do you understand that this doesn't mean shit, if for example a certain player sucks and makes opponents go :downspin: and fans go :bang? when he is on the floor?

Also if you don't want other people to think that you are a kid, don't use the words "hate" and "own" quite as often.

That being said, this thread is so stupid it is/was kind of funny.

3 point shooting and wing/interior defense was a big problem for us this past season; Mason helps with the 3-pt shooting when he doesn't have an injured shooting hand.

[chazley]

Keep it going bro., your stupidity entertains us.

Were you not loved as a child or something? All you wanna do is bash me for no reason.

[benefactor]

haha, love seeing everyone so bitter about me dominating some of the big posters on SpursTalk. This is fun.

The best part is people trying to say I'm wrong and stupid without having a discussion with me. Too funny.
What is there to discuss?

[tuncaboylu]

haha, love seeing everyone so bitter about me dominating some of the big posters on SpursTalk. This is fun.

The best part is people trying to say I'm wrong and stupid without having a discussion with me. Too funny.

Infact everybody is exhausted to have a discussion with you.

As I told you before, RMJ is a terrible 3 pointer in play-offs. We don't need a guy who steps back when play-off comes.

And we should give a chance to James Anderson instead of RMJ. 8th/9th player of the team don't need to be a veteran, it can be a rookie anyway. 8th/9th players take 10-12 minutes every night and we can use James in that spot. It doesn't matter how he sucks or fails, because we all know that RMJ also sucks and fails in play-offs and we can give his spot to Malik Hairston anytime we want.

[chazley]

Infact everybody is exhausted to have a discussion with you.

As I told you before, RMJ is a terrible 3 pointer in play-offs. We don't need a guy who steps back when play-off comes.

And we should give a chance to James Anderson instead of RMJ. 8th/9th player of the team don't need to be a veteran, it can be a rookie anyway. 8th/9th players take 10-12 minutes every night and we can use James in that spot. It doesn't matter how he sucks or fails, because we all know that RMJ also sucks and fails in play-offs and we can give his spot to Malik Hairston anytime we want.

James Anderson is the best counter-point to RMJ not coming back. It's also why he won't be coming back. James Anderson, however, at this point has proven nothing. On this team, he will be asked to play good defense and be a good spot up shooter, especially his rookie year. Can he do it? Yes. Is he a lock to do it? No. Pop has shunned rookies in favor of rookies in the past, and the fact that Mason knows the system would be a huge advantage for him. If I need a crucial 3 at the end of the game in June, would I rather have Mason or Anderson? For me, it's Mason. I just trust vets more than rooks. Also, Mason IS capable, when there's injuries, of playing very limited minutes at PG, which Anderson cannot (or hasn't proven). Also, stop quoting Mason's 3-point percentage in the playoffs, it's over a laughably-small sample size and everyone is using it as their argument, which is laughable.

[UnWantedTheory]

James Anderson is the best counter-point to RMJ not coming back. It's also why he won't be coming back. James Anderson, however, at this point has proven nothing. On this team, he will be asked to play good defense and be a good spot up shooter, especially his rookie year. Can he do it? Yes. Is he a lock to do it? No. Pop has shunned rookies in favor of rookies in the past, and the fact that Mason knows the system would be a huge advantage for him. If I need a crucial 3 at the end of the game in June, would I rather have Mason or Anderson? For me, it's Mason. I just trust vets more than rooks. Also, Mason IS capable, when there's injuries, of playing very limited minutes at PG, which Anderson cannot (or hasn't proven). Also, stop quoting Mason's 3-point percentage in the playoffs, it's over a laughably-small sample size and everyone is using it as their argument, which is laughable.

So you just choose the stats that help your argument, no matter how flawed, but others can not? Figures. Also, Mason would not have been coming back even without us drafting Anderson. He can not produce for this team enough to warrant a resigning. Plain and simple. His big production year was without Manu, and he is not capable of coming close to repeating that with the playing time he would be getting. Also, his fucking hand/wrist wasnt injured all year so get off that. Is it so difficult to believe he was a one hit wonder? RMJ really has not proven much either btw. Your also saying Anderson is not a lock to "do it"? Well can anyone honestly say RMJ is either? He played well not even an entire season and yet you try to make it more depsite what other more intelligent people say to you. You are obviously either a troll or one delusional tard. I am honestly tired of this back and forth with you. I suppose you might take it as another "victory", but I would rather you be left in your "Chazland" than deal with this stupidity any longer. I grow tired of the ignorance, not the wannabe competition.

[chazley]

So you just choose the stats that help your argument, no matter how flawed, but others can not? Figures. Also, Mason would not have been coming back even without us drafting Anderson. He can not produce for this team enough to warrant a resigning. Plain and simple. His big production year was without Manu, and he is not capable of coming close to repeating that with the playing time he would be getting. Also, his fucking hand/wrist wasnt injured all year so get off that. Is it so difficult to believe he was a one hit wonder? RMJ really has not proven much either btw. Your also saying Anderson is not a lock to "do it"? Well can anyone honestly say RMJ is either? He played well not even an entire season and yet you try to make it more depsite what other more intelligent people say to you. You are obviously either a troll or one delusional tard. I am honestly tired of this back and forth with you. I suppose you might take it as another "victory", but I would rather you be left in your "Chazland" than deal with this stupidity any longer. I grow tired of the ignorance, not the wannabe competition.

I'm saying look at the sample size. RMJ got good minutes in 4 playoff games. The 12 pts and 42% from 3 came over a 82 game sample. Big difference.

[tuncaboylu]

If I need a crucial 3 at the end of the game in June, would I rather have Mason or Anderson? For me, it's Mason.


Wrong answer and you lost. We gave the ball to Mason behind the arc 7 times in this year's play-offs and he could put it in only 1 times . So how can we trust him espexcially in June? How did he gain your confidence that he can do it in June.

We don't know James can do, maybe he can't. But he deserves a chance. But Mason doesn't deserve another chance. He used his chance and waste it. He failed. He couldn't do what he should. He couldn't prove anything when June came. Maybe neither James can do it, but we should try him.



Also, stop quoting Mason's 3-point percentage in the playoffs, it's over a laughably-small sample size and everyone is using it as their argument, which is laughable.


So what should we quote? How can we know what a player does in June? By checking his regular season stats or play-off stats?

[DrSteffo]

Answer my question troll?

[chazley]

Answer my question troll?

Repeat it and I will

[DrSteffo]

Do you admit that your argument is based on a biased and narrow selection of a player's attributes and a biased and narrow selection of stats regarding that specific attribute?

[Brazil]

Roger, you see ? I told you ! Keep the good work: 9 pages and couting

[ElNono]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HTBEyNzj4MA/SZ1WE5VypoI/AAAAAAAABw4/EhfFmndSCig/s400/not_this_shit_again.jpg

[Tito_Trinidad]

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa59/KingDaddy18/disgustedReactionSouthParkCreators.gif

[chazley]

Do you admit that your argument is based on a biased and narrow selection of a player's attributes and a biased and narrow selection of stats regarding that specific attribute?

People make alot of money in this league if they're good at one skill. All Chris Duhon can do is pass, and he just made 15 mil. All Roger can do is shoot, and that is a coveted skill.

So, to answer your question, while I admit Roger's only great skill is shooting, shooting is a highly-sought after skill by championship teams. As an 8th-9th man that is very valuable.

I feel like I'm repeating myself because I have 15 people attacking me. To hold my own 15 vs 1 is quite amusing.

[chazley]

Also, my averages of 9ppg and 38% that I would expect to see from Roger are from his 2-year Spurs career. So I have plenty of sample size for those numbers. People using his playoffs stats are basically using 4 games.

[Obstructed_View]

Post one example where someone had a point that I had a valid response to. Just one.

You're right. I can't.

[sa_butta]

How is it that we need Roger back?? The last thing we need is another inconsistant shooter. He has been given too many chances to prove himself. The only times he really made any 3 pointers is when we were already up in the game and didnt matter. Towards the end of the season he was aweful. I would rather take my chances with Bonner or Anderson, but RJM is definitely out in my book.

[chazley]

Will you guys let this thread die please...

[Obstructed_View]

How is it that we need Roger back?? The last thing we need is another inconsistant shooter. He has been given too many chances to prove himself. The only times he really made any 3 pointers is when we were already up in the game and didnt matter. Towards the end of the season he was aweful. I would rather take my chances with Bonner or Anderson, but RJM is definitely out in my book.

Roger will likely be offered the full MLE, but he'll probably re-sign with the Spurs for 2/3 of that because he has a house here already. Waiting for facts to prove that's not true. Waiting.

[LakerHater]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CqDk4jAv_Y4/TDJVfUKzvVI/AAAAAAAAEmk/WOkNrRm5vSs/s400/10.jpg

[MaNu4Tres]

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uo3gHII2nS4&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uo3gHII2nS4&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

The first 11 seconds of what is said pretty much sums up Mason the last year and a half.

[Danny.Zhu]

Don't worry. He could probably get more than Bonner.

[jimo2305]

u jus set it off in dis thread..

http://threadbombing.com/data/media/2/bb2.gif

[LakerHater]

Quick: Blazers talking to Roger Mason

AUTHOR: Coup | IN: Blazers | COMMENTS: None Yet |
From The Oregonian’s Jason Quick on Twitter (http://twitter.com/jwquick/status/17665208132):

Blazers having “ongoing conversations” with free agent guard Roger Mason according to agent Mark Bartelstein. “We’ve talked quite a bit.”
Mason certainly fits the shooter profile the Blazers have been after, as a 38.1 percent career shooter from three, but even when he peaked in 2008-09 with the Spurs — 30 minutes, 11.8 points, 42 percent from three, 42.5 percent from the field, three rebounds, two assists — he still only managed a below-average PER of 11.9 (career high 13.8 in fewer minutes the year before in Washington) with poor-to-average defense. Essentially, he’s only going to make an impact as a shooter and possibly late in games on the free-throw line.

[chazley]

haha LET THIS THREAD DIE PLEASE!!!

I know everyone respects me and wants to try and hate on me, cause everyone hates the best at whatever they do, which in this case is me on spurstalk. The only person who can hold a candle to me is timvp, everyone else is just a pretender.

I appreciate the people who respect me and my opinion, but to all the haters, I still appreciate you too cause it drives me to keep dominating you in threads.

[D. Nile]

Butchers, ye all over the gaff. Probably arseholed.

Dat, or I dae Adam and Eve ye an uphill gardner.

Toodle pip!

[benefactor]

Mason in the preseason...17min, 3.2ppg, 2.6rpg, 26% FG, 27% 3FG.

Bring him back!

[tuncaboylu]

Mason in the preseason...17min, 3.2ppg, 2.6rpg, 26% FG, 27% 3FG.

Bring him back!

He will play well on June, you will see. :downspin:
Ask to Chazley!

[Sean Cagney]

He will play well on June, you will see. :downspin:
Ask to Chazley!

Funny thing is he never made it to june :lol:lol

[chazley]

Mason in the preseason...17min, 3.2ppg, 2.6rpg, 26% FG, 27% 3FG.

Bring him back!

Let me ask you a question... would you rather have Gary Neal or Roger Mason on this Spurs team?

Honestly, I think they'll have near identical stats, and Gary Neal has a worse contract, and they would fill the exact same role on this team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Let me ask you a question... would you rather have Gary Neal or Roger Mason on this Spurs team?

Honestly, I think they'll have near identical stats, and Gary Neal has a worse contract, and they would fill the exact same role on this team.

Neal, without an ounce of doubt.

[chazley]

Neal, without an ounce of doubt.

Without an ounce of doubt? That's laughable.

Sooooooo funny how short-minded Spurs fans are. Mason had a GREAT 08-09 for us considering his role/salary. I really do not want to get into this again, and I won't, but for the last time, Mason is capable of 10+ points and 38%+ 3-pt shooting. What do you expect from Neal this year? To be honest, from what I have seen from Neal has not been good in the preseason. He has had one decent game, and barely made a game-winning three in another game. The rest of the time he has not looked like a rotation player on this team. He tries to do too much on this team that he isn't capable of. People see him ATTEMPTING shots off the dribble, and missing them for the most part, and assume that is part of his game. The fact is, Mason was a much better role player than Neal ever will be in the Spurs system.

Also lol @ how bitter some people (benefactor) are that I completely crush them in every discussion that they bump threads that are months old and completely irrelevant. How nice it must be to just dig something up from 3 months ago and say 'ah-ha! told you so!' using stats from the preseason.

[chazley]

Funny thing is he never made it to june :lol:lol

Roger Mason isn't gonna be playing NBA basketball in June for a long time.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Without an ounce of doubt? That's laughable.

Sooooooo funny how short-minded Spurs fans are. Mason had a GREAT 08-09 for us considering his role/salary. I really do not want to get into this again, and I won't, but for the last time, Mason is capable of 10+ points and 38%+ 3-pt shooting. What do you expect from Neal this year? To be honest, from what I have seen from Neal has not been good in the preseason. He has had one decent game, and barely made a game-winning three in another game. The rest of the time he has not looked like a rotation player on this team. He tries to do too much on this team that he isn't capable of. People see him ATTEMPTING shots off the dribble, and missing them for the most part, and assume that is part of his game. The fact is, Mason was a much better role player than Neal ever will be in the Spurs system.


Yes, without an ounce. Not because I expect too much from Neal, but because Mason was a negative influence on top of being an atrocious player. I agree he had a very good spell in 2008/2009 for about 3 or 4 months but that was it, that's the highlight of his career, he's been awful since then, shooting ridiculously badly, pouting, requesting to be traded, being a locker room cancer. He's had a lot of opportunities to turn it around and didn't, instead he kept going from bad to worse.

Neal is probably going to be outside of the rotation and probably won't play too much or contribute too much this season, however, he has more upside than Mason and is not the disruptive influence that Mason had morphed into. So, yes, without an ounce of doubt. An empty chair would be a better option that what Mason had become.

[Chieflion]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrJChjtpztCLSu4Kul4zttVHh0DJORy-wDHqgM1SNWY46K76Q&t=1&h=196&w=142&usg=__azN1DaGRumsfilGY95ZWDMq-aGI=

[benefactor]

Let me ask you a question... would you rather have Gary Neal or Roger Mason on this Spurs team?

Honestly, I think they'll have near identical stats, and Gary Neal has a worse contract, and they would fill the exact same role on this team.
You should probably do some research before you post, Mr #1. Mason is making 1.4 million guaranteed this year and Neal is only making 500K. Neal's deal is essentially a one year deal, as the other two years are fully unguaranteed.

Kinda hard to crush people in discussions when you don't even have your facts straight.

[chazley]

You should probably do some research before you post, Mr #1. Mason is making 1.4 million guaranteed this year and Neal is only making 500K. Neal's deal is essentially a one year deal, as the other two years are fully unguaranteed.

Kinda hard to crush people in discussions when you don't even have your facts straight.

Was speaking in terms of years.

All you ever do is fact-check people and quote them when they're wrong. Do you have actual opinions or do you just wait for people to say something you disagree with and fact check them as a way of proving your point?

[chazley]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRrJChjtpztCLSu4Kul4zttVHh0DJORy-wDHqgM1SNWY46K76Q&t=1&h=196&w=142&usg=__azN1DaGRumsfilGY95ZWDMq-aGI=

Thanks for your incredibly well-thought out contribution to the discussion. You must be such a bright human being.

[benefactor]

Was speaking in terms of years.

All you ever do is fact-check people and quote them when they're wrong. Do you have actual opinions or do you just wait for people to say something you disagree with and fact check them as a way of proving your point?
I wouldn't have to do that if you would have had your facts straight in the first place. I would think that using erroneous information to try to win an argument is something that the #1 poster would not have to resort to.

[chazley]

It's not erroneous. Neal has the longer contract.

[benefactor]

It's not erroneous. Neal has the longer contract.
The last two years are fully unguaranteed. Are you not smart enough to comprehend this, Mr. #1?

[Chieflion]

Thanks for your incredibly well-thought out contribution to the discussion. You must be such a bright human being.

That image has as much value as your entire take of Roger Mason Jr.

[chazley]

Your 10k posts have as much value as my 320 posts.

[chazley]

The last two years are fully unguaranteed. Are you not smart enough to comprehend this, Mr. #1?

Do you comprehend that I keep completely owning you and you come back for more like a fool?

[mountainballer]

It's not erroneous. Neal has the longer contract.

http://asset.soup.io/asset/0331/4138_d453.jpeg

[Chieflion]

Your 10k posts have as much value as my 320 posts.

So far, Mason has proven to suck with the Knicks. So much for your opinion.

Oh, and a regular old jab at the post count thing. It is as good as me going for the "Grey-Named Spur Fan" remark on you.

[chazley]

Can we stop recycling overused photoshops please? They get old, get something original. It's amazing to me that someone just randomly comes in just to post something like that.

[chazley]

So far, Mason has proven to suck with the Knicks. So much for your opinion.

Oh, and a regular old jab at the post count thing. It is as good as me going for the "Grey-Named Spur Fan" remark on you.

Yea, preseason means everything! Kinda like how Summer League meant everything for George Hill his rookie year.

It's sad that I have to 'defend' RMJ. I liked him as a 8-9th best player on the Spurs, people act like I'm trying to argue he's our savior.

[benefactor]

Gary Neal has a worse contract, and they would fill the exact same role on this team.

Mason is making 1.4 million guaranteed this year and Neal is only making 500K. Neal's deal is essentially a one year deal, as the other two years are fully unguaranteed.


Was speaking in terms of years.


I wouldn't have to do that if you would have had your facts straight in the first place. I would think that using erroneous information to try to win an argument is something that the #1 poster would not have to resort to.

It's not erroneous. Neal has the longer contract.

The last two years are fully unguaranteed. Are you not smart enough to comprehend this, Mr. #1?

Do you comprehend that I keep completely owning you and you come back for more like a fool?
:wakeup