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spursncowboys
07-05-2010, 05:48 PM
The Afghan Endgame
Most of the players in the region are already planning for it—except maybe the Taliban.
by John Barry, Sami Yousafzai, Ron MoreauJuly 04, 2010

Almost as soon as President Obama announced that U.S. forces would start leaving Afghanistan in July 2011, a text message began zipping between Afghan insurgents’ mobile phones. “Mubarak,” it said—Arabic for congratulations. “If you are a believer, you will be a victor,” the message continued, quoting the Quran. Then the kicker: “The enemy president is announcing a withdrawal of troops who will leave our country with their heads bowed.” Jubilant fighters and commanders quickly forwarded it to everyone in their phones’ address books. “In the long history of Afghan fighting, we know that when the enemy puts out a timetable, it means complete failure for them,” says a former Taliban cabinet minister, asking not to be named for security reasons.

That was scarcely the signal Washington meant to send. On the contrary, the idea was merely to head off a revolt by antiwar Democrats in America and maybe to scare Afghan President Hamid Karzai and his friends into cleaning up their act. Obama said only when the U.S. withdrawal would start; he very carefully didn’t say how big the troop reduction would be. But last December’s announcement has set off an ongoing storm of frantic dealmaking and rumormongering throughout the region. Senior Taliban commanders confess they can’t make sense of what’s happening. Even as they denounce reports of covert talks from news sources such as The New York Times and Al-Jazeera, high-ranking insurgents have begun very cautiously admitting for the first time that peace negotiations are not totally out of the question. “The Taliban will decide about an option other than war when the time comes that would favor such a decision,” says one senior Taliban provincial governor.

Washington is eager to make that happen—perhaps more eager than most Americans realize. “There was a major policy shift that went completely unreported in the last three months,” a senior administration official tells NEWSWEEK, asking not to be named speaking on sensitive issues. “We’re going to support Afghan-led reconciliation [with the Taliban].” U.S. officials have quietly dropped the Bush administration’s resistance to talks with senior Taliban and are doing whatever they can to help Karzai open talks with the insurgents, although they still say any Taliban willing to negotiate must renounce violence, reject Al Qaeda, and accept the Afghan Constitution. (Some observers predict that those preconditions may eventually be fudged into goals.) One particular focus is the “1267 list,” which was established in 1999 by the U.N.’s Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee. It takes its name from U.N. Security Council Resolution 1267. “There are 137 Taliban on the list,” says the senior administration official. “It’s a list of people who cannot travel, cannot have funds...We’re taking a very hard look at the 1267 list right now, looking at it on a case-by-case basis. We’ve been doing it for months.”

The abrupt removal of Gen. Stanley McChrystal as the top U.S. officer in Afghanistan and his replacement by Gen. David Petraeus may—ironically—be a stroke of luck for Obama. Petraeus’s success in Iraq has given him unmatched experience in the art of quietly making deals with insurgents. On Capitol Hill, Petraeus has the stature to sell virtually any shift in policy. And the uproar attending McChrystal’s departure means that, as a NATO envoy in Washington says, asking not to be named on a touchy subject: “The need to do something more in Afghanistan is now firmly on the Washington agenda.” That means persuading the Taliban to talk peace if at all possible, regardless of which side has the upper hand now. “Waiting for the perfect security situation is like having a baby,” says another Western diplomat, likewise unwilling to be identified. “There’s never a right time.”


The mess in Afghanistan should have come as no surprise. As the U.S. led invasion got underway in late 2001, a group of CIA “Red Team” analysts got their usual assignment to play devil’s advocate. Everyone else was sure that Osama bin Laden would be killed or captured, a democratic government would be set up in place of the Taliban regime in Kabul, and America would rebuild the shattered nation. The Red Team’s paper—only a thin handful of pages, according to two sources who saw it but ask not to be named on such a sensitive topic—had a simple message: this plan can’t work. Afghanistan had no history of strong central government, and efforts by foreign invaders to impose their will had uniformly failed. The best America could reasonably hope for was to do as the British did in the 19th century and adopt the Afghans’ own tradition of paying off provincial warlords and sending out occasional punitive expeditions against the recalcitrant. The paper had a catchy title: “Chaosistan.”

Back in 2001–02, the paper had little circulation outside the agency. But when Obama took office in January 2009, vowing to win the war in Afghanistan, CIA Director George Tenet remembered it and ordered an update for the new administration. The Red Team added yet another warning in its rewrite. Back in 2001, the CIA’s candidate to head a new Afghan government, Hamid Karzai, had seemed an ideal choice: brave, able, charismatic, with impressive political and tribal credentials. But the 2009 revision said a problem had come up during Karzai’s years in power. America was pumping billions into Afghanistan, and much of that money was being diverted to the Afghan elite—which was normal in Afghanistan, the paper said. But too much was being shunted to Karzai’s family and friends, shortchanging the other warlords and factions who needed to be paid off, the paper warned. As a consequence, Karzai was losing legitimacy.

Everyone agrees that McChrystal did his best to make the current strategy work before his dismissal last month. But that lack of legitimacy undercut his efforts. The Marja district in southern Helmand province, which was supposed to be a model of counterinsurgency, is still “a bleeding ulcer,” in McChrystal’s own words. The city that was next on his to-do list, Kandahar, remains essentially untouched—and it’s starting to look like another Fallujah just waiting to happen. And the problems keep getting worse. McChrystal was given far too few troops to defend the border, so insurgents flooded in from Pakistan unhindered. Just before being called home, he had to approve a major counteroffensive in Kunar province, where Taliban were clearly massing for an assault on Kabul. A conference of NATO’s heads of government is scheduled for Lisbon in November, and if things don’t improve before then, U.S. forces can likely say goodbye to many of their foreign partners in Afghanistan.

Most of the other players in the region are already planning for the endgame. Pakistan has begun advertising its supposed ability to broker a deal between Karzai and Pakistan’s favored faction of the Afghan insurgency, led by Jalaluddin Haqqani. India, alarmed by the prospect of Afghanistan under Pakistani sway, has been setting up consulates around the country and (according to equally alarmed Pakistani officials) dispensing cash to allies. Iran has intensified its program to draw the western city of Herat and its surrounds into ever closer economic ties. And Saudi Arabia, which used to be Kabul’s best hope for a mediated settlement, has grown wary of deeper involvement, according to Saudi diplomats.

The problem, as the military adage goes, is that in war the enemy gets to vote on any plan. And the Taliban may not be bluffing when they say that they’re not interested in talks with Karzai or anyone else. Senior Taliban members scoff at talk of the 1267 list. “Karzai is saying, ‘We will get you off the blacklist,’?” the former minister says. “But we don’t care. We don’t have bank accounts, and we only travel between Afghanistan and Pakistan, sometimes in cars, sometimes on donkeys. We don’t need passports or U.N. authorization for that.” The ad-ministration needs to show some sort of progress by the end of the year to forestall calls for a real pullout. The Taliban say they’re prepared to hold out far longer than that for victory.

With Michael Hirsh in Washington and Christopher Dickey in Paris

boutons_deux
07-05-2010, 06:04 PM
The bumbling invaders must admit defeat and quit Afghanistan.

Just another huge pile of shit started by the Repugs, botched by the Repugs as they swtiched priority and resources to their bogus war-for-oil in Iraq, and bequeathed to Magic Negro.

spursncowboys
07-05-2010, 06:06 PM
Washington is eager to make that happen—perhaps more eager than most Americans realize. “There was a major policy shift that went completely unreported in the last three months,” a senior administration official tells NEWSWEEK, asking not to be named speaking on sensitive issues. “We’re going to support Afghan-led reconciliation [with the Taliban].” U.S. officials have quietly dropped the Bush administration’s resistance to talks with senior Taliban and are doing whatever they can to help Karzai open talks with the insurgents, although they still say any Taliban willing to negotiate must renounce violence, reject Al Qaeda, and accept the Afghan Constitution. (Some observers predict that those preconditions may eventually be fudged into goals.) One particular focus is the “1267 list,” which was established in 1999 by the U.N.’s Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee. It takes its name from U.N. Security Council Resolution 1267. “There are 137 Taliban on the list,” says the senior administration official. “It’s a list of people who cannot travel, cannot have funds...We’re taking a very hard look at the 1267 list right now, looking at it on a case-by-case basis. We’ve been doing it for months.”

ChumpDumper
07-05-2010, 06:09 PM
And?

Stringer_Bell
07-05-2010, 06:12 PM
The war on terrorism would have worked if we just would have followed Bush's lead when he said "Bring it on" to the terrorists. They would have blown their load trying to get in our faces and failing...but now they can just sit back and celebrate until we leave and they take over, ultimately leaving our country's sacrifices worth nothing.

spursncowboys
07-05-2010, 06:14 PM
You three didn't read the article. Stop with the generic mediamatter garbage. chump. great example of your allstar caliber posting. keep it up.

Stringer_Bell
07-05-2010, 06:15 PM
You three didn't read the article. Stop with the generic mediamatter garbage. chump. great example of your allstar caliber posting. keep it up.

I'll have you know, even though I didn't read any of the articles posted, my opinion is not from mediamatters. Geeeeeez...

I just would've thought Bush could've made things a bit easier those 5 years the war was fought. We didn't change horses in midstream because of it. 2 years into Obama, he wants out...maybe he realized how fucked it was to begin with? Now we have to make friends with the Taliban assholes, ughhhhhh

ElNono
07-05-2010, 06:31 PM
Did anybody found out what the criteria for 'winning' was since the invasion?
Otherwise, anything will look like 'losing'...

boutons_deux
07-05-2010, 06:49 PM
Taliban and their Paki, etc supporters have no interest in negotiating. As the Israelis know, Muslims think negotiating and talking is a show of weakness.

The Taliban see the invaders bogged in unwinnable Viet Nam West, with seriously fading support by American populace, wasting 1000s of US lives and $Ts, and supporting a totally corrupt puppet who rules, maybe, Kabul only.

All the Taliban and insurgents have to do is wait, wait, wait, until the invaders withdraw like beaten dogs, like so many invaders in the past.

The US military fucked over again by their politicians.

spursncowboys
07-05-2010, 07:05 PM
stringer: nice:toast
EDIT: Mcrystal( however you spell it) was Obama's choice guy.

el nono: exactly. I think legitimizing the taliban is losing imo. if they agree to all our stipulations w/o watering them down, like the article says, we could have a just win.

I posted a stratfor article that talked about how obama's strategy is trying to put our afghan policy back to where it used to be-under GH Bush and Clinton. Petraeus said we are doing this to win. I am starting to agree that afghans will never have a national unity. They don't want it. I think however they can create a type of federal-state run country. That is something we could do if allotted a certain amount of time.

spursncowboys
07-05-2010, 07:07 PM
lmost as soon as President Obama announced that U.S. forces would start leaving Afghanistan in July 2011, a text message began zipping between Afghan insurgents’ mobile phones. “Mubarak,” it said—Arabic for congratulations. “If you are a believer, you will be a victor,” the message continued, quoting the Quran. Then the kicker: “The enemy president is announcing a withdrawal of troops who will leave our country with their heads bowed.” Jubilant fighters and commanders quickly forwarded it to everyone in their phones’ address books. “In the long history of Afghan fighting, we know that when the enemy puts out a timetable, it means complete failure for them,” says a former Taliban cabinet minister, asking not to be named for security reasons.

ElNono
07-05-2010, 07:12 PM
el nono: exactly. I think legitimizing the taliban is losing imo. if they agree to all our stipulations w/o watering them down, like the article says, we could have a just win.

They're not going to agree to any stipulation long term, because they already know we don't want to be there long term. But we already knew this going in. There's no such thing as a 'win' situation in that area, imho, other than some fictitious creation. Ultimately, all you did is spend a lot of lives and money to reorganize the distribution of power, but none of the power participants really like the invaders, so you basically stirred the pot and left. Not much different from what the Russians did, except for the massive civilian casualties back then.

We'll see what General Petraeus bring...

spursncowboys
07-05-2010, 07:14 PM
Taliban and their Paki, etc supporters have no interest in negotiating. As the Israelis know, Muslims think negotiating and talking is a show of weakness.

The Taliban see the invaders bogged in unwinnable Viet Nam West, with seriously fading support by American populace, wasting 1000s of US lives and $Ts, and supporting a totally corrupt puppet who rules, maybe, Kabul only.

All the Taliban and insurgents have to do is wait, wait, wait, until the invaders withdraw like beaten dogs, like so many invaders in the past.

The US military fucked over again by their politicians.

Good points. I don't think it's like Vietnam at all because we can shut down most routes with minimum amount of mil. personel, where as Vietnam one of the worse problems they had was the inability to control their support routes.

ElNono
07-05-2010, 07:16 PM
We should certainly celebrate we're not going to be spending any more lives and money there. Can't happen soon enough.

ElNono
07-05-2010, 07:22 PM
Do you really care what an insurgent thinks? He can go back to living in his shithole of a country growing opium for a living for all I care.

George Gervin's Afro
07-05-2010, 07:26 PM
You three didn't read the article. Stop with the generic mediamatter garbage. chump. great example of your allstar caliber posting. keep it up.

I just read the article..so? We have as evidence a phone call between one taliban guy and another.... assuming the phone call took place..so what?

It's going to be hard to 'win'..everyone realizes that

boutons_deux
07-05-2010, 09:50 PM
OBL and the terrorists have already beaten the shit out of the US, no matter what happens from here on out. asymmetric warfare and the US is the on the BIG side of the asymmetry and losing badly.

ChumpDumper
07-06-2010, 02:54 AM
You three didn't read the article. Stop with the generic mediamatter garbage. chump. great example of your allstar caliber posting. keep it up.I read your quote.

Why didn't you just say what you thought of the passage you quoted?

Why did you get so mad and why are you so envious of the title I did not solicit nor had a choice to accept?

Childish.

ChumpDumper
07-06-2010, 02:58 AM
Good points. I don't think it's like Vietnam at all because we can shut down most routes with minimum amount of mil. personel, where as Vietnam one of the worse problems they had was the inability to control their support routes.If it's so easy, why didn't Bush do that eight years ago, General?

Please explain your Afghanistan strategy to us. I am eager to read it.

Stringer_Bell
07-06-2010, 12:05 PM
If it's so easy, why didn't Bush do that eight years ago, General?

Please explain your Afghanistan strategy to us. I am eager to read it.

I agree with SnC, but this is not about the President or Generals strategy...it's simply easier to cut off suppy routes and stop the spread of hardened, well-supplied insurgency than Vietnam. Mountains and desert are easier to monitor than jungle. I got no sense that SnC was saying Obama can't do a simple thing like cut off supply routes, it's merely something that's made easier by location. Bush controlled it, Obama's controlled it...not to mention it helps when the people in the northern parts of the country don't really give a fuck to fight as long as the US lets them handle their own business.

CosmicCowboy
07-06-2010, 12:21 PM
Man, it sure would be nice to be Karzai...Dude will probably go from essentially being a political exile to making the Forbes 500 "richest people in the world" by the time the US pulls out.

George Gervin's Afro
07-06-2010, 12:24 PM
Man, it sure would be nice to be Karzai...Dude will probably go from essentially being a political exile to making the Forbes 500 "richest people in the world" by the time the US pulls out.

He'll be king for life! Which should about 3 or 4 more months after we leave..