RJ to Miami a possibility

[PDXSpursFan]

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/67937/20100707/heat_like_miller_howard_jefferson_and_korver/

Spurs sign and trade to get exception?

[DesignatedT]

hmm.

[lebomb]

Id trade RJ for Beasley and either cash or another throw in player.

[coyotes_geek]

Possible, but then who can you get with the trade exception?

[ffadicted]

I would def do a RJ for Beasley trade, despite the high risk

[Blackjack]

Hey, I'm all for options when it comes to a possible sign-and-trade.

If the Spurs could get a 7-8M exception or a player and a 3-5M exception for RJ, I'm all for it.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

RJ for Beasley would be a win imo

[SpursTillTheEnd]

rj for beasley do it spurs

[DesignatedT]

Not a big fan of Beasley but it's definitely better than letting RJ walk if that's the only alternative.

[boo_radley]

that would be nice, with that exception we could sign matt barnes and rasual butler outright, or just save it for something bigger but i would not mind trading rj for michael beasley

Can't use a trade exception to sign a player out right, you'd have to do a sign-n-trade

[benefactor]

I'd rather see them wait out NJ, but it wouldn't be a bad fall back option.

[mazerrackham]

beasley is a scrub

[DesignatedT]

beasley is a scrub

rj isn't? at least beasley is still very young.

[8FOR!3]

Richard Jefferson for Michael Beasley I would consider a win for the Spurs. Get it done Pop/RC.

[My Fault]

that would be nice, with that exception we could sign matt barnes and rasual butler outright, or just save it for something bigger but i would not mind trading rj for michael beasley

You know why its called a TRADE exception?

[coyotes_geek]

Beasley is by no means a scrub, but he's not the guy you want trying to chase quicker players around on the perimeter as your starting small forward either. Beasley would be coming in with his own set of concerns as to how he would fit in on this team.

[HarlemHeat37]

Miami would be extremely stupid to get Jefferson IMO..

I realize they're going to need a SF(assuming Lebron doesn't go there), but Jefferson doesn't fit there at all..Wade is a good defender, but he isn't good enough(or big enough) to hide Jefferson's horrible D..Wade can't shoot at a consistent level from the 3-point line, so adding Jefferson hurts their spacing..

I hope they do it for the Spurs sake, but it would be a bad addition..

[mazerrackham]

rj isn't? at least beasley is still very young.

true, I guess he's not getting paid much yet, so it wouldn't be terrible. I just don't see it improving the Spurs much unless we get more out of it.

[benefactor]

Beasley is by no means a scrub, but he's not the guy you want trying to chase quicker players around on the perimeter as your starting small forward either. Beasley would be coming in with his own set of concerns as to how he would fit in on this team.
Beasley would play PF. It wouldn't be horrible as McDyess would be able to go into full Robert Horry mode.

[Blackjack]

A trade exception is used to acquire players already under contract on a team, not free-agents. So if there are teams with a player they'd like to remove for financial reasons, you can take that player off their hands with nothing more than an exception that covers his salary. But you can't combine the exception with anything (players or assets) and you must use it within 365 days.

I'm praying to baby Jebus the Spurs can con Kahn into giving the (preferably) Webster or Brewer or that Morey would be willing to get rid of Ariza or Battier's contract. Those are probably a little unrealistic -- you could throw Pietrus in there as well -- but that'd be the perfect kind of scenario to play out.

Two guys that could definitely be had would be Posey or Garcia but they're not exactly the types you want to be had.

There are going to be options, I'm just hoping the Spurs will have them made available to them -- first order of business is to get the trade exception.

[mazerrackham]

Beasley is by no means a scrub, but he's not the guy you want trying to chase quicker players around on the perimeter as your starting small forward either. Beasley would be coming in with his own set of concerns as to how he would fit in on this team.

I dunno, I haven't seen him play any defense so far during his time in the league. He can get hot and score sometimes but by and far he's not efficient enough and he takes way too many shots. Conclusion: he's a scrub...for now, he could correct some of his ways though.

[coyotes_geek]

Another concern on Beasley is that exactly one year from now he's going to be looking for a FAT contract extension.

[benefactor]

Another concern on Beasley is that exactly one year from now he's going to be looking for a FAT contract extension.
That should give him incentive to play well then.

[Blackjack]

You couldn't be all that disappointed if the Spurs got a talent like him in a contract year and a nice trade exception but I've heard that they'd like to keep Beasley -- and would be willing to -- if they don't land another max-type contract.

It might just be a straight trade exception available.

[coyotes_geek]

Beasley would play PF. It wouldn't be horrible as McDyess would be able to go into full Robert Horry mode.

So we'd still be in need of a legitimate starting small forward and would have a logjam at power forward. Don't get me wrong, I like Beasley, he's young and incredibly talented. Hell, I'd probably pull the trigger on an RJ for Beasley deal. But it would still leave the Spurs with a flawed roster. If you add Beasley, you probably have to move Blair or Dyess.

[Bruno]

A trade exception isn't the way to go if the trade include Beasley.

If RJ sign a contract that start at $7M, a S&T for Beasley will generate a small TE of $2M. With a $2M TE, you can get a player paid $2.1M or less. Spurs won't be able to get a quality SF with that.

There are two ways to solve that:

First, doing a three team trade:
- Heat get RJ for Beasley
- Spurs get a SF and Beasley for RJ
- 3rd team get a TE for a SF
Picks and cash should be added to this trade.
With this trade, the SF Spurs can get should be paid less than $3.8M.

Second adding players. Spurs have a lot of players with non-guaranteed contracts. Adding them to a trade could help Spurs to take additional salary. It has no drawbacks for the other teams that can waive them. Spurs could also S&T a second player like Mason or Bonner.

When you combine these two "tricks" Spurs can easily take a SF with a $6M salary even if they also had to take Beasley.

[benefactor]

So we'd still be in need of a legitimate starting small forward and would have a logjam at power forward.
He would take the majority of Dice's minutes and limiting Duncan's minutes should be a priority, so I don't really see a logjam. Getting an SF would depend on the size of the exception.

[benefactor]

Nevermind. I like Bruno's idea better.

[coyotes_geek]

I like that scenario too, but the big question is what team out there is looking to give away a legitimate starting SF?

[Blackjack]

A trade exception isn't the way to go if the trade include Beasley.

If RJ sign a contract that start at $7M, a S&T for Beasley will generate a small TE of $2M. With a $2M TE, you can get a player paid $2.1M or less. Spurs won't be able to get a quality SF with that.

There are two ways to solve that:

First, doing a three team trade:
- Heat get RJ for Beasley
- Spurs get a SF and Beasley for RJ
- 3rd team get a TE for a SF
Picks and cash should be added to this trade.
With this trade, the SF Spurs can get should be paid less than $3.8M.

Second adding players. Spurs have a lot of players with non-guaranteed contracts. Adding them to a trade could help Spurs to take additional salary. It has no drawbacks for the other teams that can waive them. Spurs could also S&T a second player like Mason or Bonner.

When you combine these two "tricks" Spurs can easily take a SF with a $6M salary even if they also had to take Beasley.

And that $6M range would be more than ideal to find a suitable replacement.

I doubt Spurs value Beasley's talent as much as a lot of people here would and I don't think they'd bite on Beasley and the $2M TE if offered a straight TE or one with NJ that could still net them $4-5M should they take back Humphries, but that's my opinion.

You do like to know that there are some "tricks" like you say, though. It's a much more settling proposition than losing RJ for nothing or signing him long-term.

[MannyIsGod]

Beasley to the Spurs doesn't really make sense if you bring over Splitter, imo. In all likelyhood any 3rd team involved in a SA/Miami deal would get Beasley.

[benefactor]

I like that scenario too, but the big question is what team out there is looking to give away a legitimate starting SF?
A team that wouldn't want to re-sign that player and wouldn't mind getting a TE. See Spurs, San Antonio.

[Steve-O-Matic]

Umm, Michael Beasley would NEVER pass the Spurs filter. He has major MAJOR character and dependency issues. There's a better chance of the Spurs hiring Bernie Madoff to be the team's VP of Finance and Accounting than trading for Michael Beasley.

[MannyIsGod]

I could see a deal for Beasley being sought if RJ goes to Miami IF they are unable to bring Splitter over. Assuming you could get Beasley and use the MLE on a good small forward (hello Mike Miller) do you then try to trade his rights?

[Mel_13]

FWIW, the OP linked to a realgm summary of a Miami Herald story.

The realgm summary reads:

Assuming they aren't able to add LeBron James, the Miami Herald reports that the Heat are interested in Mike Miller, Josh Howard, Richard Jefferson and Kyle Korver.

Miami has also spoken to the agents for Rasual Butler and Matt Barnes, who would come cheaper than the other options.

The actual article in the Miami Herald reads:

Among small forwards, the Heat loves Mike Miller -- with Josh Howard, Richard Jefferson and Kyle Korver also in the mix -- and spoke to agents for Rasual Butler and Matt Barnes, who are cheaper. Miller could get too pricey if Miami gets Wade, Bosh and top center target Brendan Haywood.


Doesn't seem like Miami is interested in paying a FA SF more than an MLE-sized starting salary.

[Bruno]

I like that scenario too, but the big question is what team out there is looking to give away a legitimate starting SF?

It could be Mike Miller in a S&T. I guess a couple of second round picks and/or some cash should be enough to convince Wizards to S&T him if they don't get players back.

[ElNono]

It could be Mike Miller in a S&T. I guess a couple of second round picks and/or some cash should be enough to convince Wizards to S&T him if they don't get players back.

Where do I sign?

[peacemaker885]

It could be Mike Miller in a S&T. I guess a couple of second round picks and/or some cash should be enough to convince Wizards to S&T him if they don't get players back.

Wait, I thought Miller was going to the Lakers?

[lurker23]

Wait, I thought Miller was going to the Lakers?

Lakers signed Steve Blake, which made any offer from them to Miller null and void, since they didn't have the money to get it done.

[coyotes_geek]

It could be Mike Miller in a S&T. I guess a couple of second round picks and/or some cash should be enough to convince Wizards to S&T him if they don't get players back.

Miller + Beasley for RJ would sweet, but I'd think that Miller is going to be looking for a contract as big as RJ's. That would make it hard to get Beasley to SA as part of the package. Now if Beasley went to Washington instead of SA, that seems like that works nicely for all parties involved. RJ to Miami, Miller to SA, Beasley plus a small TE to Washington still sounds good to me.

[peacemaker885]

Lakers signed Steve Blake, which made any offer from them to Miller null and void, since they didn't have the money to get it done.

Ahh, thanks lurker23.

[Bruno]

Beasley to the Spurs doesn't really make sense if you bring over Splitter, imo. In all likelyhood any 3rd team involved in a SA/Miami deal would get Beasley.

Yep, Beasley doesn't really make sense for Spurs but the problem is that nobody wants him. Spurs interest in this trade wouldn't be Beasley but to get a SF.

I don't think RJ would be Miami first choice but it could be if they are able to unload Beasley in a a S&T for him. If I'm Spurs GM, I rather do thsi trade than signing RJ to a long term contract or getting nothing from him

Beasley would be a player with a $5M expiring contract. He could be used at the trade deadline and wouldn't cost too much since I'm sure Heat would be ready to send $3M in cash to cover a part of his salary.

[peacemaker885]

Can't Beasly play the 3? If he can then playing alongside Splitter would be possible yes?

[coyotes_geek]

Can't Beasly play the 3? If he can then playing alongside Splitter would be possible yes?

Offensively the Spurs could find a way to make it work. Defensively, not so much.

[Blackjack]

He likes to think he can.

[AFBlue]

He likes to think he can.

He's got the handle, shot and quickness to play on the wing. Overall, I think Beasley has the talent to play either position. Whether he has the attitude or work ethic is another question.

[HarlemHeat37]

Beasley would be good on a team with a lot of defensive players and few offensive players, where he can take up a high-usage and not have to worry about defense..it wouldn't work with the Spurs..

I think Beasley has the talent to play the 3, but he's an extremely stupid player..

[peacemaker885]

Dang, thanks for the insight guys.

[yavozerb]

Questionable work ethic before the NBA and 2 years later in the NBA, still questionable work ethic. Not good!!

[wildbill2u]

I dunno, I haven't seen him play any defense so far during his time in the league. He can get hot and score sometimes but by and far he's not efficient enough and he takes way too many shots. Conclusion: he's a scrub...for now, he could correct some of his ways though.

There is a reason why a 2nd pick in the draft two years ago has fallen so far out of favor in Miami that even talking about a trade for RJ is a possibility.

If they don't see his upside after having him on the team for two years, why should we take him.

[Bruno]

Miller + Beasley for RJ would sweet, but I'd think that Miller is going to be looking for a contract as big as RJ's. That would make it hard to get Beasley to SA as part of the package. Now if Beasley went to Washington instead of SA, that seems like that works nicely for all parties involved. RJ to Miami, Miller to SA, Beasley plus a small TE to Washington still sounds good to me.

I don't think Wizards would want to add Beasley to their locker room.

With their 4 non-guaranteed players, Spurs have a lot of flexibility. If RJ is paid $7M in his first year, Spurs could absorb $12.8M if they add these 4 players. Beasley salary is $5M so Spurs could pay Miller up to $7.8M in his first year.

[AFBlue]

There is a reason why a 2nd pick in the draft two years ago has fallen so far out of favor in Miami that even talking about a trade for RJ is a possibility.

If they don't see his upside after having him on the team for two years, why should we take him.

low risk, high reward player

He's got talent and if he were to go to a structured environment with strong veteran leadership and a disciplinarian coaching staff, he might be able to produce like his talent suggests he should.

[ohmwrecker]

I don't want Michael Beasley, but as long as we are fantasizing about third team S&T options, I say get the Clippers involved and get Travis Outlaw on this team. Don't forget about my boy, y'all!

[coyotes_geek]

I don't think Wizards would want to add Beasley to their locker room.

With their 4 non-guaranteed players, Spurs have a lot of flexibility. If RJ is paid $7M in his first year, Spurs could absorb $12.8M if they add these 4 players. Beasley salary is $5M so Spurs could pay Miller up to $7.8M in his first year.

I'm all for it if the Spurs can pull something like this off.

[coyotes_geek]

There is a reason why a 2nd pick in the draft two years ago has fallen so far out of favor in Miami that even talking about a trade for RJ is a possibility.

If they don't see his upside after having him on the team for two years, why should we take him.

Depending which side of the Ian Mahinmi debate you're on, you apparently need more than 5 years to proclaim someone a bust......................

[iManu]

Miami needs a 3 point threat at the 3.

[Magdalena M]

Beasley playing some minutes at small forward would be better than Keith Bogans starting 49 games-- as he did last year-- at any position.

[wildbill2u]

From those who know him best:

"Here's why there should be absolute confidence that Beasley will still be moved for the betterment of this team.
First, he doesn't appear wanted by the most important person in this organization, Dwyane Wade. If body language didn't say enough during the playoffs last season, then Wade's words certainly did, when he spoke of being tired of talking about Beasley and how much more the team needs from him. Wade wants no part of teaming with Beasley -- not if his goal is to win a lot more right away.
Second, it doesn't make much sense to keep a power forward when, one, you've already publicly begged Udonis Haslem to re-sign, and two, you're entering a free-agency period heavy in power forwards, one of which is assumed you'll be signing (and please don't sell me on the idea of Beasley playing small forward).
NOT IN PLANS
Why in the world would Beasley be in the plans when it just doesn't make sense? This organization already has spent two years beating its head against the wall when it comes to him, so entering the most crucial offseason in the team's history, you're already promising a third year of such frustration?
Fortunately, there's a huge loophole in Riley's statements -- that's if a loophole is even necessary when it's entirely possible Riley is simply lying to improve leverage in trade talks.
Riley said the team is not desperate enough to trade Beasley for more space. That's a matter of semantics, really. Maybe he didn't find a trading partner that is willing to absorb Beasley into their space and offer nothing in return.


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/26/1701469/it-doesnt-make-sense-for-heat.html#ixzz0t2JAUFuz

[AFBlue]

Miami needs a 3 point threat at the 3.

Well they're supposedly interested anyway, despite him apparently not being their first choice.

[Cane]

Beasley is an anti-Spur, don't need him here. He doesn't do anything on the court worth a damn.

Here's ESPN's Bill Simmons take on why no one should want Mike:




105. Michael Beasley
Hate to throw the "bust" word around after two years, so let's flip this around. You're watching the playoffs right now. Pretty competitive, right? Other than scoring, you need to rebound, defend and play hard to advance. Beasley can't do any of those three things. Play an undersized power forward against him (like Glen Davis in Game 2) and he gets eaten up. Stick a small forward on him (like Paul Pierce) and he can't post that guy up. Stick a traditional power forward on him (like Kevin Garnett) and he can't beat that guy off the dribble or prevent the guy from scoring on the low post. So what's left? I don't see any conceivable scenario in which this guy has a meaningful NBA career. Could he put up stats on a bad team? Of course. Anything else, I'm not seeing it. All of Pat Riley's fidgeting during the 2008 draft now makes perfect sense.

If Dwyane Wade ends up leaving this summer, it's because of two reasons:

A. The teams that ended up with O.J. Mayo (3) Russell Westbrook (4), Kevin Love (5), Danilo Gallinari (6), Eric Gordon (7), Brook Lopez (10), Jerryd Bayless (11), Robin Lopez (15), Serge Ibaka (24), Nic Batum (25) and George Hill (26) wouldn't trade those guys for Beasley right now. That's a borderline catastrophe. They got the 13th-best guy in the draft at No. 2.

B. Riley didn't sell his Beasley stock in time. The window was February, when a panicking Suns team happily would have green-lighted Beasley (making $19.4 million from 2011-2013), Udonis Haslem's expiring deal and a protected 2010 No. 1 for Amar'e Stoudemire. If you're Miami, why not? Amar'e gets a taste of Miami for a few months; you get the chance to offer him a sixth year and more money; worst-case scenario, you have his sign-and-trade rights this summer; you can make a 2010 playoffs run with the Wade-Amar'e combo; and you potentially have a 2010-11 nucleus of Wade, Amar'e and Free Agent Star X.

If you're Wade, would you stick around and put your basketball prime in the hands of someone who just botched those two decisions? Or would you flip teams and opt for a safer situation? More on this later.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100429


Would rather have RJ who seems much more professional, already has playoffs experience in the Spurs system, and worked out with Coach Pop over the summer. I would rather deal with his kind of problems than Beasley's. It'd probably take Beasley a season to adjust in the system as well and I can see Coach Pop absolutely destroying his already weakened psyche.

Beggars can't be choosers and hopefully the Spurs aren't at that point. Beasley seems like the anti-Spur, the type of guy that they wouldn't want to gamble on even though he's shown glimpses of talent and he's a forward.

[benefactor]

You guys act like he's on a five year deal or something. Beasley at 5 million is a bargain. If it doesn't work out is an expiring that can be moved at the deadline.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't want Beasley, but taking his contract for another year or 2 is >>>> RJ for a potential 5 years..

[AFBlue]

Beasley is an anti-Spur, don't need him here. He doesn't do anything on the court worth a damn.

Here's ESPN's Bill Simmons take on why no one should want Mike:



Would rather have RJ who seems much more professional, already has playoffs experience in the Spurs system, and worked out with Coach Pop over the summer. I would rather deal with his kind of problems than Beasley's. It'd probably take Beasley a season to adjust in the system as well and I can see Coach Pop absolutely destroying his already weakened psyche.

Beggars can't be choosers and hopefully the Spurs aren't at that point. Beasley seems like the anti-Spur, the type of guy that they wouldn't want to gamble on even though he's shown glimpses of talent and he's a forward.

Beasley's contract is guaranteed for this year only, while RJ would be re-signed on a multi-year deal at likely a couple million more per year than Beasley is making now.

I get it....he's the anti-Spur, but if the Heat are practically giving him away, why don't you take him? It's a low-risk proposition.

[AFBlue]

You guys act like he's on a five year deal or something. Beasley at 5 million is a bargain. If it doesn't work out is an expiring that can be moved at the deadline.


I don't want Beasley, but taking his contract for another year or 2 is >>>> RJ for a potential 5 years..

These two get it.

[mazerrackham]

You guys act like he's on a five year deal or something. Beasley at 5 million is a bargain. If it doesn't work out is an expiring that can be moved at the deadline.

this is the only reason that it wouldn't be terrible. If the Spurs can somehow turn it into a SF then I'd be happy.

[DPG21920]

Some people around here with their reasoning for RJ are killing me. Now that he has opted, re-signing RJ is the worst case scenario because no way he signs short-term.

Now that he has opted out, Spurs absolutely cannot bring him back. Sure it sucks to have some what of a hole at SF, but it is infinitely worse having RJ for 3+ years.

Anything>>>>>>>>>>RJ Long Term.

[coyotes_geek]

Beasley's contract is guaranteed for this year only, while RJ would be re-signed on a multi-year deal at likely a couple million more per year than Beasley is making now.

True, but whichever team has Beasley needs to make a decision on his 11-12 option ($6.2 mil) before the 10-11 season starts.

[AFBlue]

True, but whichever team has Beasley needs to make a decision on his 11-12 option ($6.2 mil) before the 10-11 season starts.

Probably would be declined, given that he hasn't proven anything and will be lucky to get that on the open market in the 2011 summer. Spurs still have a shot at him either way if they do decline it.

[Cane]

Beasley makes financial sense, doesn't make sense from a talent/experience standpoint or if the Spurs are serious about making another run at the title. If the Spurs are going all-in with Tony Parker and the rest, they'd be better off with RJ than Beasley.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

True, but whichever team has Beasley needs to make a decision on his 11-12 option ($6.2 mil) before the 10-11 season starts.


doesn't that make Beasley perfect?

inexpensive, only have to keep for a year, but can keep for 2 without paying him big?
making him pretty-risk free, and making him tradeable

[benefactor]

True, but whichever team has Beasley needs to make a decision on his 11-12 option ($6.2 mil) before the 10-11 season starts.
I think that this is pretty much a done deal. No team...not the Heat or any other team...is going to give Beasley that money. This will be a contract year for him.

[DPG21920]

True, but whichever team has Beasley needs to make a decision on his 11-12 option ($6.2 mil) before the 10-11 season starts.

Spurs could very easily let him walk. No pressure for the Spurs. It's not like they gave up an asset for him.

[benefactor]

Beasley makes financial sense, doesn't make sense from a talent/experience standpoint or if the Spurs are serious about making another run at the title. If the Spurs are going all-in with Tony Parker and the rest, they'd be better off with RJ than Beasley.
If they can get an SF, it works fine.

[MannyIsGod]

Some people around here with their reasoning for RJ are killing me. Now that he has opted, re-signing RJ is the worst case scenario because no way he signs short-term.

Now that he has opted out, Spurs absolutely cannot bring him back. Sure it sucks to have some what of a hole at SF, but it is infinitely worse having RJ for 3+ years.

Anything>>>>>>>>>>RJ Long Term.

Yeah, explain that to Tim Duncan and his final shot at a ring.

[Blackjack]

The Dude does not party with RJ. He does not abide . . .

[DPG21920]

Beas > RJ. Beas + TE >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RJ.

[AFBlue]

The Dude does not party with RJ. He does not abide . . .

Seriously...new shit (a.k.a. Beasley) has come to light man!

[SpursTillTheEnd]

if tim duncan wants another ring he wont get it with rj here, yall people defending rj are dumb as fuck talking bout he will help us get the fuck outta here with that false shit hariston > rj beasley > rj

[024]

beasley blows. he has absolutely no defense and no work ethic. just take the trade exception, a future pick, and run.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, explain that to Tim Duncan and his final shot at a ring.

Yeah, RJ really helped Tim last year in his quest. I have already explained that losing RJ does nothing to really damper the Spurs chances at a title. It is marginal impact at best.

If all other off season plans went how the Spurs wanted them to, but they lost RJ, the championship course (as real as it is) would not change drastically at all.

That slight dip, if any at all, is certainly not worth RJ long-term.

[coyotes_geek]

Probably would be declined, given that he hasn't proven anything and will be lucky to get that on the open market in the 2011 summer. Spurs still have a shot at him either way if they do decline it.

I'd think you've got no choice but to exercise the option. He's only 21 and by popular opinion here only some maturity away from being a really good player. Plus if you decline the option on him he becomes an unrestricted FA and you're limited to only being able to offer him money up to what that 4th year option would have been. If you're willing to commit to him for 1 year, you may as well commit to him for 2 considering his age, potential, and the benefits of having him as a restricted free agent.

[Blackjack]

Some people around here with their reasoning for RJ are killing me. Now that he has opted, re-signing RJ is the worst case scenario because no way he signs short-term.

Now that he has opted out, Spurs absolutely cannot bring him back. Sure it sucks to have some what of a hole at SF, but it is infinitely worse having RJ for 3+ years.

Anything>>>>>>>>>>RJ Long Term.



http://thestartingfive.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/toine.jpg

Really? I wonder if he meant that . . .

[Cane]

If they can get an SF, it works fine.

Not if its Beasley. No one wants this guy for good reason, one of the worst basketball players in the playoffs and one of the few starting forwards that played worse than RJ in the playoffs.

[temujin]

Anyone but Jeferson.

[DPG21920]

The Dude does not party with RJ. He does not abide . . .


Seriously...new shit (a.k.a. Beasley) has come to light man!

:lol

[benefactor]

Not if its Beasley. No one wants this guy for good reason, one of the worst basketball players in the playoffs and one of the few starting forwards that played worse than RJ in the playoffs.
So you are saying that you would not want Mike Miller if it meant taking an expiring Beasley?

[DPG21920]

Anything.

[Cane]

So you are saying that you would not want Mike Miller if it meant taking an expiring Beasley?

That'd be awesome but I think thats daydreaming. No one wants Beasley.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, RJ really helped Tim last year in his quest. I have already explained that losing RJ does nothing to really damper the Spurs chances at a title. It is marginal impact at best.


Yeah no. You can explain it all you want but it doesn't make it any truer. RJ didn't play well last year and no one can deny that but that doesn't mean that he won't play better this year and improve on his corner 3s.



If all other off season plans went how the Spurs wanted them to, but they lost RJ, the championship course (as real as it is) would not change drastically at all.

That slight dip, if any at all, is certainly not worth RJ long-term.

Who cares if he's locked up long term at a reasonable contract? The Spurs are playing for a year or two at most before they're going to have to undergo some serious rebuilding and during those rebuilding years it really won't matter if RJ is on the books.

I prefer to get a TE or a better fit through a S&T but to say that you'd not notice it should the Spurs not resign RJ is foolish, IMO. Even if he just came off the bench and the Spurs started Hill Manu and Parker I believe his production is better than that of anything we'll get for the min/lle.

[ohmwrecker]

So you are saying that you would not want Mike Miller if it meant taking an expiring Beasley?

That scenario seems pretty unlikely. The TE left over after we take Beasley wouldn't be enough to get Miller or anyone else worthwhile. I don't really want Mike Miller anyway. I mean, I'll take him, but there are a few others I would rather have.

[benefactor]

That'd be awesome but I think thats daydreaming. No one wants Beasley.
It's plausible. Bruno doesn't daydream. :)

[benefactor]

That scenario seems pretty unlikely. The TE left over after we take Beasley wouldn't be enough to get Miller or anyone else worthwhile. I don't really want Mike Miller anyway. I mean, I'll take him, but there are a few others I would rather have.

A trade exception isn't the way to go if the trade include Beasley.

If RJ sign a contract that start at $7M, a S&T for Beasley will generate a small TE of $2M. With a $2M TE, you can get a player paid $2.1M or less. Spurs won't be able to get a quality SF with that.

There are two ways to solve that:

First, doing a three team trade:
- Heat get RJ for Beasley
- Spurs get a SF and Beasley for RJ
- 3rd team get a TE for a SF
Picks and cash should be added to this trade.
With this trade, the SF Spurs can get should be paid less than $3.8M.

Second adding players. Spurs have a lot of players with non-guaranteed contracts. Adding them to a trade could help Spurs to take additional salary. It has no drawbacks for the other teams that can waive them. Spurs could also S&T a second player like Mason or Bonner.

When you combine these two "tricks" Spurs can easily take a SF with a $6M salary even if they also had to take Beasley.

[AFBlue]

The issue with Bruno's scenario is that it likely puts the Spurs over the luxury tax threshold, if you assume they sign Splitter at MLE.

[ohmwrecker]

I said "unlikely", not impossible . . . that scenario takes a lot of pieces falling together and two teams being VERY cooperative in doing the Spurs a favor.

[MannyIsGod]

The issue with Bruno's scenario is that it likely puts the Spurs over the luxury tax threshold, if you assume they sign Splitter at MLE.


Yeah, and I honestly think the Spurs days of going over the LT are done unless they plan on letting Tony Parker walk next season or trading him at the halfway point.

[AFBlue]

Yeah, and I honestly think the Spurs days of going over the LT are done unless they plan on letting Tony Parker walk next season or trading him at the halfway point.

Agreed.

I think if the Spurs work a Jefferson sign-and-trade to the Heat it would be to take back Beasley plus TE for the difference, or just a TE for the full amount ($6-8M).

[ohmwrecker]

Agreed.

I think if the Spurs work a Jefferson sign-and-trade to the Heat it would be to take back Beasley plus TE for the difference, or just a TE for the full amount ($6-8M).

I would rather have the full TE.

[coyotes_geek]

That'd be awesome but I think thats daydreaming. No one wants Beasley.

No one wanted Beasley when Miami's criteria for giving him away involved not having to take back any salary whatsoever. Since that meant dumping him on a team who had cap room, "no one" really only meant that there weren't any teams with cap space who wanted to give up $5 million worth of cap space for the guy.

[Bruno]

If the rumor of Lebron going to NY is true, Cavs could also be a good target for a RJ S&T. If Cavs don't decide to re-build via some tanking, adding RJ would make a lot for sense for them.

[DPG21920]

Yeah no. You can explain it all you want but it doesn't make it any truer. RJ didn't play well last year and no one can deny that but that doesn't mean that he won't play better this year and improve on his corner 3s.

Why would he magically get better at things he has never been good at (except for maybe 1 statistical anomaly of a season)?

People who get better normally do so because they have the skill set that fits and need a year to learn everything to become more natural.

RJ does not have a skill set that fits the Spurs.



Who cares if he's locked up long term at a reasonable contract? The Spurs are playing for a year or two at most before they're going to have to undergo some serious rebuilding and during those rebuilding years it really won't matter if RJ is on the books.

I prefer to get a TE or a better fit through a S&T but to say that you'd not notice it should the Spurs not resign RJ is foolish, IMO. Even if he just came off the bench and the Spurs started Hill Manu and Parker I believe his production is better than that of anything we'll get for the min/lle.

I care if he is locked up long-term because for many reasons, it will hinder the rebuilding process. When you couple that with the reality that Spurs are long shots to win a title, with or without RJ, it makes no sense to lock him up long-term, just to give the team "one more shot". It will certainly matter if RJ is on the books and they are trying to rebuild.

That is not even taking into consideration that it seems to be widely known RJ does not want to play here. It seems pretty clear he wishes he was else where.

Again, I don't think losing RJ hurts the Spurs very much at all basketball impact wise and it is not at all foolish to think that. The numbers back it up. His production and impact was below average and even getting a cheap one dimensional player that has a skill set the Spurs need would be at worse equal overall impact.

[Seventyniner]

Kind of strange given all this crazy money being handed out, but I just checked salaries and I can't find many teams who figure to be in salary dump mode. New Orleans, Philly, and maybe Toronto, and this board has beaten to death deals for Iguodala, Paul, and Bosh (not an option now obviously).

What would it take for a team to sign-and-trade its free agent SF (like Mathews or Miller) into our trade exception, assuming RJ gets traded to Miami for one? Would cash be enough?

[DPG21920]

Also, like I said, RJ long-term is the worst scenario:

1) TE for RJ in a S&T.

2) SF for RJ in a S&T

3) TE + SF for RJ in a S&T

4)TE + Other player for RJ in a S&T

5) Other player for RJ in a S&T

6) RJ walks and the Spurs get nothing

7) RJ long-term with the Spurs

Those are pretty much all of the scenarios, and all seem better than RJ long-term

[AFBlue]

Recent Q&A with the "cancer" in question...sounds fairly professional to me.



HoopsHype.com NBA Blogs - Raúl Barrigón
Michael Beasley: “Sometimes my mistakes have been magnified”June 28, 2010 @ 5:47 am by Raul Barrigon


What are your offseason plans?

Michael Beasley: Working out. Get better. I’m going to play the summer league. Pretty much don’t stop. I haven’t had any vacation. I just went straight to working out. I feel I can do a lot to improve my game to help the team and take us further to the playoffs.

Any special routine this summer?

MB: No, I’ll use the regular coaches, assistant coaches.

Did you see draft night?

MB: Not at all. I was flying to Europe. I missed the draft, the U.S. soccer game… I missed everything (laughs).

Do you like soccer?

MB: I don’t follow soccer a lot, but I’m definitely interested about what’s happening in the World Cup.

Right now there’s only two players with guaranteed contracts on the Heat roster: Mario Chalmers and you. Does it feel strange that it’s very possible that you’ll have almost a new entire team next season?

MB: It’s crazy when you think about it. But you won’t see too many seasons like this. Some players might stay at the end, but it’s true that we might have almost a new roster next season. We’ll start over.

How do you feel about Wade’s chances of staying in Miami?

MB: I definitely feel that he’ll stay. He’s accomplished a lot in Miami, he won a championship and a Finals MVP… He already has laid his foundation.

Among the big free agents, who would gell great with you and Dwyane?

MB: Anybody. You know Chris Bosh… Amare Stoudemire would be great. Of course LeBron James would fit in right away. But as of right now we must grow as a team, get better and things will just work out.

After two seasons, do you feel like you have become kind of a lightning rod for criticism during your career?

MB: I do. Honestly, I don’t see why. Everybody makes mistakes and I feel like sometimes mine have been magnified. I feel like I’m expected to act older than what I am. I’m not saying that’s a reason to do some of the things I’ve done. But you know, I’m like everybody else: I make mistakes, learn from them and move on with your life.

And after two seasons, your life has changed. You’re an NBA player. Do you still stick together with your old crew of friends?

MB: Yeah. I don’t have too many friends. Actually I have a crew of two people: me and a buddy from high school.

Ron Artest was often criticized during the season after signing with the Lakers, but after Game 7 of the Finals everybody was talking about how he had redeemed himself. Do you see that as an example or inspiration?

MB: I don’t. You know, everybody has his own past. I’m following my own path, trying to execute my plan as well as possible and grow, not only as a player but as a person. Like I said before, everybody commits mistakes, and that’s how you build your character… What do you do after mistakes.


Read more: http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/barrigon/2010/06/28/michael-beasley-sometimes-my-mistakes-have-been-magnified/#ixzz0t2VzaGnw

[TimmehC]

If the rumor of Lebron going to NY is true, Cavs could also be a good target for a RJ S&T. If Cavs don't decide to re-build via some tanking, adding RJ would make a lot for sense for them.

True, but who would we want? Moon?

[ffadicted]

True, but who would we want? Moon?

JJ Hack-son lol duuh

[HarlemHeat37]

If the rumor of Lebron going to NY is true, Cavs could also be a good target for a RJ S&T. If Cavs don't decide to re-build via some tanking, adding RJ would make a lot for sense for them.

Cleveland would make sense, Jefferson would fit on that type of team, since he would still get his touches and they wouldn't be serious about winning right now..

What can they offer?..

[coyotes_geek]

One small problem with the Cleveland scenario. Why in the world would RJ want to go to a Lebron-less Cavs team?

[angelbelow]

Beasley is oozing potential. But he lacks heart and passion for the game. So this would definitely be a high risk move - but would still be a great one unless we can get that trade exception.

[angelbelow]

Recent Q&A with the "cancer" in question...sounds fairly professional to me.

Honestly, when it comes to these types of articles, i havent read one that was optimistic sounding or professional. I remember way back in the days I would get excited reading about undrafted rookies just because they would reference Bowen taking the same path.

[ohmwrecker]

JJ Hack-son lol duuh

They wouldn't trade JJ Hickson for Amare straight up last year.

[ThePop]

One small problem with the Cleveland scenario. Why in the world would RJ want to go to a Lebron-less Cavs team?

Why would RJ opt out of 15 Million? Who knows

[ohmwrecker]

6) RJ walks and the Spurs get nothing

Still not seeing the good in this one.

[DPG21920]

Still not seeing the good in this one.

I am not saying that it is good, I am saying it is not as bad as signing RJ long-term.

[Blackjack]

i am not saying that it is good, i am saying the dude does not abide.

fify

[ohmwrecker]

I am not saying that it is good, I am saying it is not as bad as signing RJ long-term.

I guess, for me, it depends on how "long-term" it plays out to be. I understand your position that RJ is a bad fit and he always will be, but I am not sure I can make that leap with you. I would be interested to see if he can turn it around.
Honestly, I think RJ is a potentially a better option than a lot of the names that are being lofted around here.

[Seventyniner]

One small problem with the Cleveland scenario. Why in the world would RJ want to go to a Lebron-less Cavs team?

If the Cavs are willing to pay him what he wants, he'll go.

[ohmwrecker]

RJ didn't really "tie the room together".

[DPG21920]

I think Dorell Wright, for the LLE, would make the Spurs better than RJ.

Like I said, losing RJ and getting nothing in return would be bad, but not catastrophic. Of course only having the LLE and a portion of the MLE (if that) is not a lot of money to fill a hole. But I think it can be done within reason where you don't see a drastic drop in production and impact from the SF spot.

I think that is almost worse case scenario, with signing RJ to a long-term deal being the worst overall (all things considered.).

Hopefully it does not come to that and options 1-5 somehow play out.

[DPG21920]

RJ didn't really "tie the room together".

lol

[Xevious]

There's a lot of ins, lot of outs, lot of what-have-yous to this deal. Mike Miller would be nice if they pulled that off. Don't think that would ever happen though. I just don't think Beasley would cut it here.

[Vic Petro]

This compulsive fornicator is taking my father for the proverbial ride.

:lol

[benefactor]

The issue with Bruno's scenario is that it likely puts the Spurs over the luxury tax threshold, if you assume they sign Splitter at MLE.
With the cap numbers out and the tax threshold at 70 million, it's now a little more wide open.

[Thomas82]

I'd rather see them wait out NJ, but it wouldn't be a bad fall back option.

Yeah, we need to hit up NJ and see what's up.

[Mel_13]

Cleveland would make sense, Jefferson would fit on that type of team, since he would still get his touches and they wouldn't be serious about winning right now..

What can they offer?..

Delonte West's contract has one year left at 4.5M. He can be bought out for 500K until August 3rd. That contract could serve in much the save way as a trade exception that expires in a month instead of a year. Add on Moon or Parker and you could have the basis for a deal.

[ohmwrecker]

Delonte West's contract has one year left at 4.5M. He can be bought out for 500K until August 3rd. That contract could serve in much the save way as a trade exception that expires in a month instead of a year. Add on Moon or Parker and you could have the basis for a deal.

I heard West might be packaged in a deal with Phoenix for Barbosa and the Suns would buy him out.

[Mel_13]

I heard West might be packaged in a deal with Phoenix for Barbosa and the Suns would buy him out.

West is just trade bait. Whoever owns his contract at the beginning of August will payoff that 500K and let him go.

[rascal]

Miami would be extremely stupid to get Jefferson IMO..

I realize they're going to need a SF(assuming Lebron doesn't go there), but Jefferson doesn't fit there at all..Wade is a good defender, but he isn't good enough(or big enough) to hide Jefferson's horrible D..Wade can't shoot at a consistent level from the 3-point line, so adding Jefferson hurts their spacing..

I hope they do it for the Spurs sake, but it would be a bad addition..

Wherever Jefferson goes he will do better than he did with the spurs. The spurs did not use him right.

[Blackjack]

Wherever Jefferson goes he will do better than he did with the spurs. The spurs did not use him right.

If they would've used him "right," they would've wound up in the lottery (which I suppose is what you wanted all along, eh?).

[rascal]

If they would've used him "right," they would've wound up in the lottery (which I suppose is what you wanted all along, eh?).

Dont get the connection with what it has to do with making the lottery.

[rascal]

If Jefferson goes to Miami look for a rebound year for him.

[objective]

It's true that the Spurs didn't play to RJ's strengths, hence the 6-8 weeks into the season it took for RJ and Parker to get together to run a lob play for him.

But it's not like he was hustling his ass off and giving 100% effort on defense either. Spurs counted on him to play defense, and he couldn't or wouldn't. Spurs counted on him to be the 4th scorer but found they had a better option in Hill.

[Blackjack]

Dont get the connection with what it has to do with making the lottery.

Because if they tailored their offense to suit RJ, they'd suck.

If RJ isn't in an up-tempo system, there's nothing he excels at that really makes a team better. So he's either going to be in a system where he can play a role like he did in NJ off of 2 stars and have success, have individual success and a miserable team like the Bucks, or he's going to look like crap in a structured offense where his best assets aren't able to be shown and the considerable holes in his game are.

:cell

We have a connection! :elephant (damn, addictive emoticons)

[ploto]

Not going to happen.

[rascal]

Because if they tailored their offense to suit RJ, they'd suck.

If RJ isn't in an up-tempo system, there's nothing he excels at that really makes a team better. So he's either going to be in a system where he can play a role like he did in NJ off of 2 stars and have success, have individual success and a miserable team like the Bucks, or he's going to look like crap in a structured offense where his best assets aren't able to be shown and the considerable holes in his game are.

:cell

We have a connection! :elephant (damn, addictive emoticons)

Thats your connection not mine. The spurs still could have made the playoffs and better utilized Jefferson. The spurs still would make the playoffs by loosening up the structured offense and getting out and running more when opportunities present themselves.

Problem is Pop tries to put players into roles that previous players had and that does not work out well when the new players have different skill sets.
pop does not adjust to his rosters strenghts.

[AFBlue]

If no LeBron, then RJ makes a lot of sense for the Heat. If they have enough for a LeBron max deal, then they have enough to make an offer above MLE to RJ and either another shooter (i.e. Mike Miller) or a PG (i.e. Farmar, Felton).

[rascal]

I dont think so, wade and bosh will dominate the ball and with no shooters to space the floor RJ will be forced into being jump shooter.......now if they play bosh at center and become a run and gun fast break team then Im with ya.

They will not use Jefferson primarily as a spot up shooter. They will run more than the spurs.

[CaptainLate]

Not a big fan of Beasley but it's definitely better than letting RJ walk if that's the only alternative.

Doesn't the UFA, someone like RJ, have to agree to a S&T?

[angelbelow]

Probably unlikely now..

[objective]

even with or without Lebron it appears Miami would rather have Mike Miller over RJ.

[AFBlue]

It says as much in the article linked from RealGM (Miami Herald) on the first page. Mentions RJ as a possibility, but it said their primary target was Miller.

[Blackjack]

Thats your connection not mine. The spurs still could have made the playoffs and better utilized Jefferson. The spurs still would make the playoffs by loosening up the structured offense and getting out and running more when opportunities present themselves.

Problem is Pop tries to put players into roles that previous players had and that does not work out well when the new players have different skill sets.
pop does not adjust to his rosters strenghts.

How can you better utilize a player that doesn't fit?

Do you think Parker can turn into Kidd?

Should the Spurs ditch the system that allows them to rack up 50-win seasons with minimal talent or the ability to sustain injury?

Should Pop instead of yelling 90% of the time at his team to run go get his 6-shooter and shoot at their feet to get them to "dance"?

Should the Spurs go to solely a Princeton offense in the halfcourt, use Tim as nothing more than a high-post facilitator to open up the middle so RJ can thrive?

Should they just allow RJ to get up 20 shots a game so he can find a rhythm and become that shooter he was for one year in Milwaukee?

Or maybe they can just abandon their offensive a defensive systems for stretches of the game to create more possessions and opportunities to score, even if the opposition will have more and much better opportunities?

The Spurs are built with a particular personnel, with a particular system and have won with such for years on end doing so.

RJ doesn't fit into that. You can rationalize all you want and say that the Spurs could've found some ways to make him look better, but it never would have been good enough and the only way he'd look like a guy deserving anywhere near what he was getting paid, would be to go the way of the Bucks.

It's science.

[The Truth #6]

I agree with your overall point Blackjack but I would argue that the Spurs players we have no longer fit the blueprint that well anymore. Bonner isn't Horry. Centerpiece isn't Bowen. Hill doesn't have a true identity. The model is still there but most of the players, including RJ, don't fit that well. Given that, we have an uneasy balance between approach and personnel. I don't think playing to RJ is the way to go, but I could see how opening up the offense could help some. He did play better D when he was involved on offense.

For those who want to sign him for a long contract that problem isn't going away. I'd rather let him walk than give him more than two years.

[jimo2305]

RJ to miami?

i thought miami was trying to get better..

[AFBlue]

Yeah, this thread is definitely OBE.

[Blackjack]

Well, yeah, they've lost key personnel that has hindered their ability to play the system that's won them championships. But they've still got enough of it there and the same philosophy to put together a 50-win season in what was their worst year in a decade.

The team is ill-fitted with the likes of RJ, any kind of reliance on Bonner and without the legitimate size defensively to protect the rim or guard out on the wing. There's no denying that.

But RJ is never going to thrive as long as Parker's at the point and the Spurs are the Spurs. There may be more than one way to skin a cat but they really don't have the time to reinvent the wheel with Tim and Manu's age.

There's really only one way for the Spurs to get it done at this point. They may be able to tweak certain things and aspects to fit better personnel, but tweaking it significantly for the likes of RJ who brings no real asset to the team that affects the bottom line -- winning --and their just pissing in the wind.

RJ's not worthless or not a good player, he just happens to look that way if he's not in the perfect system. His and a team's success can only coincide in the right system surrounded by the right players.

The Spurs ain't it.

[Blackjack]

STEIN_LINE_HQ

Four-way trade talk w/RIGHT LINK: Beasley told WED by Heat to expect trade and Bobcats highly motivated to get him (http://es.pn/bPnrvh)
1 minute ago via TweetDeck

[Cane]

Hopefully Michael Jordan doesn't tear Beasley a new asshole ala Kwame Brown:




Although Brown, the promising center who the Wizards picked first in the 2001 NBA draft, wasn't the only target of Jordan's DC disses, he may have been Jordan's worst victim. Sports Illustrated reported that "Jordan ritually reduced Brown to tears in front of the team."

By most reports, Kwame wasn't the only one who breathed a heavy sigh of relief when Jordan announced his third or fourth retirement last season. If you didn't play hoops MJ's way, it was the bench -- or the trading block -- for you.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/teammatefeuds/031103.html

[DAF86]

Wade, Lebron, RJ, Bosh, Shaq.

[Cane]

Wolves-Heat deal, sources say, calls for 'Sota to absorb Beasley into cap space and send its 2011 second-round pick to Miami to seal deal

@STEIN_LINE_HQ Wolves/Heat also agree to unspecified swap of future first-round picks. Heat turned to 'Sota after four-way trade w/TOR, HOU, CHA dissolve

http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ




Read more: http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/68002/20100708/wolves_to_acquire_michael_beasley/#ixzz0t9aacm00

[slick'81]

damn for just a 2nd round pick

[tuncaboylu]

It's possible only if RJ agrees to play for veteran minimum.

[mudyez]

Wade, Lebron, MMiller, Bosh, Shaq.

fixed