This Says It All, The Absolute Truth

[Whisky Dog]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/michael_rosenberg/07/08/lebron.event/index.html?eref=sihp

GREENWICH, Conn., July 8, 1990 -- Michael Jordan announced on national television he's leaving Chicago to join the Detroit Pistons. Jordan said it was tough to bolt Chicago, where he was the most popular athlete in many years, because he thinks he has a better chance to win a championship if he plays with Pistons star Isiah Thomas. Jordan said by playing together, he and Thomas "won't have the pressure of going out and scoring 30 every night."
That would have sounded absurd, right? Well, it is no more absurd than what LeBron James is doing. Jordan was 27 years old in 1990, slightly older than James is now. He had never been to the NBA Finals. He had been beaten up by the Celtics and Pistons for years. He doubted his supporting cast was good enough.
But he never doubted himself.
And it became very clear Thursday night that LeBron James does doubt himself. James will be a champion in Miami -- if not next year, then sometime after that. If you put James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh together and give Pat Riley five years to find the complementary pieces, that team will win a championship.
But James does not have the heart of a champion. He does not have the competitive fire of Jordan, the bull-headed determination of Kobe Bryant, the quiet self-confidence of Tim Duncan, the willful defiance of Isiah or the winning-is-everything hunger of Magic Johnson.
He is an extremely gifted player who wants the easy way out.
And how do we know this?
James said so himself.
Oh, not in so many words. But once ESPN was done ESPN-izing its LeBron coverage -- filling it with babbling experts, needless hype and Jim Gray submitting his top six entries in the Stupidest Question Ever contest -- the self-proclaimed King said everything you need to know about him.
1. "You have to do what's best for you, and what's going to make you happy."
This is what's going to make him happy? Sharing a stage with two other stars? Really?
I guess that's all LeBron is: A complementary player with superstar talent. We should have figured this out before: He got that giant CHOSEN 1 tattoo on his back and calls himself King James because he is desperate for reassurance.
There is no greater challenge in sports getting drafted by a godawful team, planting your flag in a city and working like crazy until you have turned that team into a champion.
LeBron James didn't want the challenge. He wanted to play with his buddies.
2. "We don't have the pressure of going out and scoring 30 every night or shooting a high percentage."
Whoa. Hold on there. Scoring 30 a night is too much pressure for one of the five most talented players ever?
Find me another all-time NBA great who would utter those words. Jordan would rather do an adidas commercial than say that. Bryant must have laughed as he heard the so-called "King" say that. Larry Bird? The next time he complains about pressure will be the first. Magic was the greatest team player of the last 40 years, but he was also so competitive that he wanted to play Jordan one-on-one in a promotional event -- and this was when Magic had won titles and Jordan had not, so Magic had more to lose.
3. "I know how loyal I am."
The man just dumped his hometown(s) on national television. Cleveland (and, by extension, Akron) happens to be the most tortured sports city in America. To do that, then say "I know how loyal I am" ... wow, wow, wow.
I wish I could sit in on one of LeBron's meetings with his advisers. Does he make them all wear mirrored sunglasses, so that when he looks at them he sees himself?
We really don't ask that much of our sports stars. Try not to get arrested for anything big. Don't curse at the fans. You know, small stuff. We even understand that 95 percent of the time, they will make career decisions based on money -- we might not love it, but we understand it.
But see, the biggest thing that we ask of our sports stars is this: Take the competition as seriously as we do.
When LeBron James loses to Boston in the playoffs, we want him to take the heat, not take the Heat's offer. We want him to spend the summer adding to his game, calling and texting his teammates, plotting to do better next season.
Instead, well ...
4. "It's about joining forces with the other two guys."
He sounds like a nine-year-old playing Star Wars games with his buddies at a sleepover. And again: I do believe this Miami team will win a title. But it won't be as easy as he wants it to be. Miami will have the weakest bench of any contender next season After that, the NBA will have a lockout, and the league could eliminate the mid-level exception, which would be Miami's best tool for adding talent.
So this is a cop-out, but it's not as easy of a cop-out as it appears. And that brings us to ...
5. "This is the greatest challenge for me."
LeBron James just jumped into an elevator and wants us to think he can fly. Sorry, but we know better. We know that he did something Michael, Magic, Bird and Bill Russell never would have done. We know he ditched Cleveland for an All-Star team.
But you know what? In Miami, anything short of a title will be a failure. Nobody outside of Miami will root for this team, and nobody in Miami roots for anybody. They're too busy enjoying the weather.
I thought he would stay in Cleveland, because I thought all he cared about was adoration. I was wrong about Cleveland, but he is wrong about adoration. He thinks he'll get it by winning a title. He has insulated himself from the world, surrounded himself with yes men. He has no idea how much backlash he is about to get.
That's one of the great ironies of this -- James is trying to flee pressure, but he will just face more of it. He is trying to maximize his "brand," but he just damaged it.
The first time I watched LeBron James live, I thought he could be the greatest player ever. The sad truth for us, for him, and for the NBA is that he never really believed it himself.

[ffadicted]

lmao LeQuit

[lefty]

lol at CNNSI comparing 2 different eras :donkey


There was more parity in the NBA back then

Today it's all about the L.A Sterns

If MJ was in the same situation today, he may have done what Lebron did

[ginobme]

Hammer meet nail.

[Giuseppe]

If MJ was in the same situation today, he may have done what Lebron did

True. MJ quit. LeBron quit.

[Whisky Dog]

lol at CNNSI comparing 2 different eras :donkey


There was more parity in the NBA back then

Today it's all about the L.A Sterns

If MJ was in the same situation today, he may have done what Lebron did

LMAO there was no more parity. There were the Lakers and Celtics and everybody else. MJ was on an island in Chicago for years, but did he go to LA to ride Magic's coat tails to a title because the pressure of "scoring 30 a night and shootingva high percentage" was too much for him.

I'm actually glad that after 7 years the world can now see Lebron for what he is - the most talented role player in the history of basketball.

[Cry Havoc]

Jordan's Bulls made the playoffs without him, won 55 games, and almost beat a loaded Knicks team.

The post-LeBron's Cavs are now good for about 25-30 wins, only because of the addition of Boozer. Without Carlos, who still does not make the Cavs a championship team, the Cavs are probably a 20-25 win team.

There is a slight disparity in the quality of each respective team. The Cavs had 7 years to stack some decent players around LeBron. Who was the best they could manage?

Mo Freaking Williams, and after 6.5 seasons, a 34 year-old Antawn Jamison.

It's hilarious how people are ridiculous LeBron when Cleveland continually put trash around him for teammates.

[Giuseppe]

I'm actually glad that after 7 years the world can now see Lebron for what he is - the most talented role player in the history of basketball.

It's just the plain unvarnished truth.

[Cry Havoc]

It's just the plain unvarnished truth.

And we see the birth of the Los Angeles Cavaliers.

[Giuseppe]

And we see the birth of the Los Angeles Cavaliers.

I'd come back with my invention, but, you're under the protection of the admin and I'm forbidden.:rolleyes

[jacobdrj]

LMAO there was no more parity. There were the Lakers and Celtics and everybody else. MJ was on an island in Chicago for years, but did he go to LA to ride Magic's coat tails to a title because the pressure of "scoring 30 a night and shootingva high percentage" was too much for him.

I'm actually glad that after 7 years the world can now see Lebron for what he is - the most talented role player in the history of basketball.

No, that would be Magic Johnson...

[Fpoonsie]

The post-LeBron's Cavs are now good for about 25-30 wins, only because of the addition of Boozer. Without Carlos, who still does not make the Cavs a championship team, the Cavs are probably a 20-25 win team.

Isn't Booze in CHI?

[thispego]

I think the gasol deal was waaaaaaaay more tragic to the state of the NBA than this. This is like, no big deal...

[Cry Havoc]

Isn't Booze in CHI?

Huh. You're right. My bad. Tough to keep track of everything in the NBA since I got back from camping for 9 days about 36 hours ago.

Awesome. Then the Cavs are a 15-25 win team now. :lmao

[lefty]

LMAO there was no more parity. There were the Lakers and Celtics and everybody else. MJ was on an island in Chicago for years, but did he go to LA to ride Magic's coat tails to a title because the pressure of "scoring 30 a night and shootingva high percentage" was too much for him.

I'm actually glad that after 7 years the world can now see Lebron for what he is - the most talented role player in the history of basketball.
But the Rockets did beat the Lakers in 1986 :lol

And the Pistons won back-to-back titles in 1990


Sure it was Lakers vs Celtics most of the time, but on occasion you had Sixers, Rockets in the Finals, and other teams giving a hard tome to Boston and L.A in the playoffs

[Fpoonsie]

Huh. You're right. My bad. Tough to keep track of everything in the NBA since I got back from camping for 9 days about 36 hours ago.

Awesome. Then the Cavs are a 15-25 win team now. :lmao

:lol

[Cry Havoc]

I'd come back with my invention, but, you're under the protection of the admin and I'm forbidden.:rolleyes

:wtf

[Giuseppe]

I can't do the San Antonio He*t no more. The Princess came in last night and put the kibash to it.

[lefty]

Go San Antonio Heat Go !!!!!!!!

[Whisky Dog]

Jordan's Bulls made the playoffs without him, won 55 games, and almost beat a loaded Knicks team.

The post-LeBron's Cavs are now good for about 25-30 wins, only because of the addition of Boozer. Without Carlos, who still does not make the Cavs a championship team, the Cavs are probably a 20-25 win team.

There is a slight disparity in the quality of each respective team. The Cavs had 7 years to stack some decent players around LeBron. Who was the best they could manage?

Mo Freaking Williams, and after 6.5 seasons, a 34 year-old Antawn Jamison.

It's hilarious how people are ridiculous LeBron when Cleveland continually put trash around him for teammates.

1st, you're looking at the 2004 Bulls after they won 3 titles, not the 1990 Bulls who hadn't won shit. Jordan could have bolted when things looked bad but he didn't.

2nd, the choice wasn't go be a role player in Miami and Wade's sidekick or stay in Cleveland. He could have gone to Chicago with a good supporting class and been the front line superstar to lead them but even the prospect of that was too much for him.

My point here is all the "King James" and "Chosen One" and even questioning if he could be the best player ever is all out the window. He's no longer a brand, he's a role player. He's Dwayne Wade's sidekick who wants Wade to lead him to a title.

He's more Robert Horry than Michael Jordan or even Kobe. There's nothing wrong with trying to be Robert Horry, but he just showed the world that he is a role player not one of the immortal greats of the game in the making.

[spursfan1000]

lol at CNNSI comparing 2 different eras :donkey


There was more parity in the NBA back then

Today it's all about the L.A Sterns

If MJ was in the same situation today, he may have done what Lebron did

No, because Jordan would have had a championship by now.

[Giuseppe]

but he just showed the world that he is a role player not one of the immortal greats of the game in the making.

Yep.

Men, like Dog don't need Media to show them where the bear shit in the buckwheat.

[Whisky Dog]

But the Rockets did beat the Lakers in 1986 :lol

And the Pistons won back-to-back titles in 1990


Sure it was Lakers vs Celtics most of the time, but on occasion you had Sixers, Rockets in the Finals, and other teams giving a hard tome to Boston and L.A in the playoffs

Ok, so it was the Celitcs, Lakers, and Pistons then everyone else. Still no more parity than now, the Magic, Mavs, etc made the finals and the Celtics and Heat won a title. What's your point?

[PM5K]

I have to disagree that Jordan would have done the same thing, if given the same climate. Jordan was the ultimate competitor. During practices Jackson would switch Jordan to the losing team in the middle of the game and the Jordan led team would win almost every time.

He sort of reminds me of that T-Rex in Jurassic Park, he didn't want to eat that tied up goat, he wanted to hunt for his meal.

[hater]

I have to agree, back then there was no LA and the Gasol collusion.

that changed everything. Fuck that, I rather see the 3 Egos in Miami win it than the cheaters and rapists in LA

[da_suns_fan]

As if Lebron ever had a teammate of the level of Scottie Pippen.

[Giuseppe]

I have to agree, back then there was no LA and the Gasol collusion.

that changed everything. Fuck that, I rather see the the Spurs win it than the cheaters and rapists in LA

There, I changed it for you, Hater.

Christ, act like somebody, gd it.

[Cry Havoc]

1st, you're looking at the 2004 Bulls after they won 3 titles, not the 1990 Bulls who hadn't won shit. Jordan could have bolted when things looked bad but he didn't.

Jordan got Scottie Pippen after 3 years in the league. Jordan only had to wait 4-5 years for the Bulls to begin forming a solid team around him. Who's even close to that level of talent on the Cavs right now?


2nd, the choice wasn't go be a role player in Miami and Wade's sidekick or stay in Cleveland. He could have gone to Chicago with a good supporting class and been the front line superstar to lead them but even the prospect of that was too much for him.

You keep saying he's going to be a sidekick. He's going to run point for the Heat, score 20-25 a game, and probably average double digit assists. Is Magic remembered as a role player because he had Kareem? This is ridiculous.


My point here is all the "King James" and "Chosen One" and even questioning if he could be the best player ever is all out the window. He's no longer a brand, he's a role player. He's Dwayne Wade's sidekick who wants Wade to lead him to a title.

A role player who's going to average a near triple-double, unless the Heat are blowing people out and he gets reduced playing time.


He's more Robert Horry than Michael Jordan or even Kobe. There's nothing wrong with trying to be Robert Horry, but he just showed the world that he is a role player not one of the immortal greats of the game in the making.

:lmao

Just keep hating. It's obvious that there's very little being brought to the table that's credible. When the Cavs finish with 23 wins, people will realize that probably not even Jordan could have won a title with that team. Kobe would have had them as a 7 or 8 seed, losing in the first round.

[HarlemHeat37]

Do people understand the definition of a role player?..

Like Havoc said, Lebron is probably going to have the ball more than Wade does..he's going to run point more often, he's going to have a high usage %, he's going to shoot a lot, he's still going to get his rebound/assist numbers..why exactly would he become a role player?..

The media really does a number on these people..

[Giuseppe]

Do people understand the definition of a role player?

Yes, Lebron James.

[PM5K]

That's the thing, Lebron is running away from the pressure, Jordan absorbed it. Do you remember when Scottie folded under the pressure in the 94 playoffs and sat out that final play? He couldn't take the pressure that for years Jordan had absorbed, I thought Lebron was more like Jordan, but in reality he's more like Scottie.

[TheManFromAcme]

LMAO there was no more parity. There were the Lakers and Celtics and everybody else. MJ was on an island in Chicago for years, but did he go to LA to ride Magic's coat tails to a title because the pressure of "scoring 30 a night and shootingva high percentage" was too much for him.

I'm actually glad that after 7 years the world can now see Lebron for what he is - the most talented role player in the history of basketball.

:tu

I don't doubt Brons talent. The boy is as gifted as they get but he is now a permanent resident of SecondfiddleVille and may even move over to the other subdivision at ThirdFiddleVille.

Let him win 3,4 or even 5 rings. They will never be "his". Trust me, it will matter at some point in his career. His inmaturity to not ride out the storm in Cleveland will haunt him when he hangs em up.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Only Lebron can be criticized for going to the best destination for winning titles..

[TheManFromAcme]

:lol Only Lebron can be criticized for going to the best destination for winning titles..


It is what it is...

[Cry Havoc]

Yes, Lebron James.

LOL attempting to get Kobe back into the talks for "Best player in the league".

Not happening, sorry.

[lefty]

Ok, so it was the Celitcs, Lakers, and Pistons then everyone else. Still no more parity than now, the Magic, Mavs, etc made the finals and the Celtics and Heat won a title. What's your point?
In 1990, Kareem retired, Celtics were done, the Bulls lost a close series to the Pistons

MJ knew he had a chance to win with the Bulls

[TheManFromAcme]

LOL attempting to get Kobe back into the talks for "Best player in the league".

Not happening, sorry.


It's not Bron either so where does that leave us?
Get a clue

:rolleyes

[Cry Havoc]

It's not Bron either so where does that leave us?
Get a clue

:rolleyes

When the Cavs win less than 25 games this year, it won't be LeBron?

A player that can single-handedly make a 35 game swing for a team isn't the best player in the league?

Hating a player does not suddenly diminish his or her accomplishments, nor does throwing out random attacks in hopes of discrediting him to salvage your own MVPenis.

[Giuseppe]

LOL attempting to get Kobe back into the talks for "Best player in the league".

Not happening, sorry.

I don't do the best player stuff, Cry. I leave that to you children.

I do rings.

It's my religion

[Mixability]

I would've respected him going anywhere but the Heat. LeBoo.

[TheManFromAcme]

When the Cavs win less than 25 games this year, it won't be LeBron?

A player that can single-handedly make a 35 game swing for a team isn't the best player in the league?

Hating a player does not suddenly diminish his or her accomplishments, nor does throwing out random attacks in hopes of discrediting him to salvage your own MVPenis.

I don't hate Bron. Never once mentioned it. I understand you go for your best chance at getting some hardware and it may even be leaving your nest to accomplish it. I get that.

He has nothing to show for it. Nothing. The Cav teams he played with were not scrub teams. Not at all. These were 60+ win teams beating teams to include the Lakers and Celtics in the regular season. Did you forget that?

If after 7 years the Cavs didn't even smell the first round of playoffs I can understand Lebron whining about getting some help to get out of at least the first round but your talking about a guy who has already tasted some good success with that team. Success in the playoffs that other NBA teams haven't enjoyed in years. I am not saying the Cavs were on the verge but they weren't that far away either.

Bron is perhaps the best talent in basketball right now. You won't get an argument out of me regarding that, but to call him a "winner" right now is blasphemy and what he's done to Cleveland is shameful in my opinion.

The Miami trio is going to be a formidable team but funnier things have happened. The curse of Cleveland may follow Lebron to Miami.

Anyhow, I am not a huge Kobe guy either but it's Kobe's league right now until somebody takes it away.

[Cry Havoc]

I don't hate Bron. Never once mentioned it. I understand you go for your best chance at getting some hardware and it may even be leaving your nest to accomplish it. I get that.

He has nothing to show for it. Nothing. The Cav teams he played with were not scrub teams. Not at all. These were 60+ win teams beating teams to include the Lakers and Celtics in the regular season. Did you forget that?

If after 7 years the Cavs didn't even smell the first round of playoffs I can understand Lebron whining about getting some help to get out of at least the first round but your talking about a guy who has already tasted some good success with that team. Success in the playoffs that other NBA teams haven't enjoyed in years. I am not saying the Cavs were on the verge but they weren't that far away either.

Bron is perhaps the best talent in basketball right now. You won't get an argument out of me regarding that, but to call him a "winner" right now is blasphemy and what he's done to Cleveland is shameful in my opinion.

The Miami trio is going to be a formidable team but funnier things have happened. The curse of Cleveland may follow Lebron to Miami.

Anyhow, I am not a huge Kobe guy either but it's Kobe's league right now until somebody takes it away.

:lmao

The only reason the Cavs won 30+ games in any of the past 7 seasons is BECAUSE of LeBron.

How is it his fault that he didn't take a 25 win team and make them champions by himself?

Name the second best player he's played with in Cleveland. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

[Whisky Dog]

Jordan got Scottie Pippen after 3 years in the league. Jordan only had to wait 4-5 years for the Bulls to begin forming a solid team around him. Who's even close to that level of talent on the Cavs right now?



You keep saying he's going to be a sidekick. He's going to run point for the Heat, score 20-25 a game, and probably average double digit assists. Is Magic remembered as a role player because he had Kareem? This is ridiculous.



A role player who's going to average a near triple-double, unless the Heat are blowing people out and he gets reduced playing time.



:lmao

Just keep hating. It's obvious that there's very little being brought to the table that's credible. When the Cavs finish with 23 wins, people will realize that probably not even Jordan could have won a title with that team. Kobe would have had them as a 7 or 8 seed, losing in the first round.

It's not the amount of points you score or stats you put up that make you a role player. It's your position on the team, in the league. Even when TP was averaging more points than Tim Duncan everyone knew that it was Duncan's team. He was the unquestioned leader, the superstar who led it all.

It's the same here. Wade is the unquestioned leader. He's the one who led his team almost single handedly to a title when they were all but done. He's the one that stayed home, Lebron and Bosh went to ride HIS coattail.

I'm not saying Lebron isn't a great player or that he's making the wrong decision. All I'm saying is that this exposes what he truly is - a second banana. He's not the chosen one or the king, he's a second fiddle to a more dominant leader. He can't take the pressure that Jordan did and be the top dog. He had to run from it and go to Wade's home to follow Wade.

That's what I mean by role player. It isn't his stats, it's his status on the team. If he wins titles now it will be as a complimentary player on Wade's team just like TP and Manu won titles as complimentary players on Duncan's team.

The difference is neither TP or Manu are claiming to be the chosen ones or the greatest in the game and this "brand", and now Lebron shouldn't either.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Huh. You're right. My bad. Tough to keep track of everything in the NBA since I got back from camping for 9 days about 36 hours ago.

Awesome. Then the Cavs are a 15-25 win team now. :lmao

They're likely around a .500 team. 38 to 45 wins or so. That is usually good enough for a playoff spot in the East.

Depending on whom they add in LeBron's place, could go as high as 50 wins. Varejao, Moon, Hickson, West, Williams, Parker, Jamison is not a bad place to start at all.

Keep setting that bar ridiculously low. This team will surprise people by not sucking.

[TheManFromAcme]

:lmao

The only reason the Cavs won 30+ games in any of the past 7 seasons is BECAUSE of LeBron.

How is it his fault that he didn't take a 25 win team and make them champions by himself?

Name the second best player he's played with in Cleveland. Go ahead. I'm waiting.

I understand what your saying.

All I am saying is that you don't get to 60+ seasons because you have ONE guy that can swing 35 point games. Something else is happening that allows that team to win consistently.

[SomeCallMeTim]

:lmao

The only reason the Cavs won 30+ games in any of the past 7 seasons is BECAUSE of LeBron.

How is it his fault that he didn't take a 25 win team and make them champions by himself?

:lol at the idea that LeBron is worth 40 wins.

Why in the world should we take anything you say seriously? What next, will you tell us LeBron is ten feet tall and has heat ray vision?

[OC Lakerfan]

1st, you're looking at the 2004 Bulls after they won 3 titles, not the 1990 Bulls who hadn't won shit. Jordan could have bolted when things looked bad but he didn't.

2nd, the choice wasn't go be a role player in Miami and Wade's sidekick or stay in Cleveland. He could have gone to Chicago with a good supporting class and been the front line superstar to lead them but even the prospect of that was too much for him.

My point here is all the "King James" and "Chosen One" and even questioning if he could be the best player ever is all out the window. He's no longer a brand, he's a role player. He's Dwayne Wade's sidekick who wants Wade to lead him to a title.

He's more Robert Horry than Michael Jordan or even Kobe. There's nothing wrong with trying to be Robert Horry, but he just showed the world that he is a role player not one of the immortal greats of the game in the making.

Spot on.

Jordan would never be option two. Actually, he wouldn't ever be 1B even.

[ducks]

As if Lebron ever had a teammate of the level of Scottie Pippen.

That's the problem. The last two seasons take that argument away from James. After making it to the 2007 NBA Finals, he's had good enough supporting casts the last two seasons to have the best regular season records both years. Sure, it was mostly due to LeBron, but if he had enough help to have the best record in the league two straight seasons, he loses the excuse that he doesn't have enough help to win a title.

LeBron quit against Boston. He stopped attacking the basket. He settled for long, lazy jumpers. Stopped staying involved in offense. He still put up stats, but it was pretty clear he stopped trying to win in that series I believe from game 4 on. He scored. He still grabbed some rebounds and assists. But it was clear as day that he had quit on his team and was no longer trying to win. You keep asking where the evidence is. If you watched that series, you wouldn't need to ask for evidence.

[TheManFromAcme]

That's the problem. The last two seasons take that argument away from James. After making it to the 2007 NBA Finals, he's had good enough supporting casts the last two seasons to have the best regular season records both years. Sure, it was mostly due to LeBron, but if he had enough help to have the best record in the league two straight seasons, he loses the excuse that he doesn't have enough help to win a title.

LeBron quit against Boston. He stopped attacking the basket. He settled for long, lazy jumpers. Stopped staying involved in offense. He still put up stats, but it was pretty clear he stopped trying to win in that series I believe from game 4 on. He scored. He still grabbed some rebounds and assists. But it was clear as day that he had quit on his team and was no longer trying to win. You keep asking where the evidence is. If you watched that series, you wouldn't need to ask for evidence.

Perfect take ducks. Absolutely perfect. :tu

[weebo]

Do people understand the definition of a role player?..

Like Havoc said, Lebron is probably going to have the ball more than Wade does..he's going to run point more often, he's going to have a high usage %, he's going to shoot a lot, he's still going to get his rebound/assist numbers..why exactly would he become a role player?..

The media really does a number on these people..

Maybe not by numbers, but this is DWades team. He's the alpha dog by virtue of him being there the longest and actually winning a title for the city. The leader of the team doesn't always have to lead the team in scoring or any other stat. Reference guys like Nash, Duncan, etc...

[pad300]

:lol Only Lebron can be criticized for going to the best destination for winning titles..

Actually, that's a really funny statement. If it was really all about Titles, the 3 amigos would have gone to Chicago instead.
Chicago could have found a dump deal for Deng, that would give them the cap space needed, (purely as an example, something like this:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1027327&start=15#p24038840 )
The result :

Wade, Bosh, Lebron, Rose, Noah, Gibson, James Johnson.

A roster with 6 NBA players (all those guys had a WP/48 > .1) rather than 4 (Wade, Bosh, Lebron, Miller). As well, they have a starting lineup, with both a good PG and a good C, as well as SG, SF, and PF....

That's a roster that almost certainly would win THIS year. As it stands, I think the Heat really need to find a good defensive C before I am willing to hand them the Title. If I were them, I would have prioritized a C above the luxury of Miller....

[Warlord23]

That's the problem. The last two seasons take that argument away from James. After making it to the 2007 NBA Finals, he's had good enough supporting casts the last two seasons to have the best regular season records both years. Sure, it was mostly due to LeBron, but if he had enough help to have the best record in the league two straight seasons, he loses the excuse that he doesn't have enough help to win a title.

LeBron quit against Boston. He stopped attacking the basket. He settled for long, lazy jumpers. Stopped staying involved in offense. He still put up stats, but it was pretty clear he stopped trying to win in that series I believe from game 4 on. He scored. He still grabbed some rebounds and assists. But it was clear as day that he had quit on his team and was no longer trying to win. You keep asking where the evidence is. If you watched that series, you wouldn't need to ask for evidence.

For a minute I thought ducks had finally got a decent grasp of the English language. I mean, this post is grammatically correct with no spelling errors. Then I searched a bit.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4489115&postcount=161

Nice copy-and-paste ducks :tu

[z0sa]

That's the problem. The last two seasons take that argument away from James. After making it to the 2007 NBA Finals, he's had good enough supporting casts the last two seasons to have the best regular season records both years. Sure, it was mostly due to LeBron, but if he had enough help to have the best record in the league two straight seasons, he loses the excuse that he doesn't have enough help to win a title.

LeBron quit against Boston. He stopped attacking the basket. He settled for long, lazy jumpers. Stopped staying involved in offense. He still put up stats, but it was pretty clear he stopped trying to win in that series I believe from game 4 on. He scored. He still grabbed some rebounds and assists. But it was clear as day that he had quit on his team and was no longer trying to win. You keep asking where the evidence is. If you watched that series, you wouldn't need to ask for evidence.



what..the..fuck?

[Warlord23]

what..the..fuck?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4489115&postcount=161

At least he picked a good poster to plagiarize :lmao

[BUMP]

People are making way too much out of this.

LeBron just wants to win championships. Period. I'm sure he's thought this over a thousand times. He knows that if he goes down to Miami to play with Wade that it will diminish his legacy.

Has he ever said he plans on surpassing Jordan by doing so? No. Every player is different. This is just the route he has chosen. Be a team player on a team full of stars and maybe create the best team ever. There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

[z0sa]

:rollin

shoulda known

[z0sa]

There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

pretty much. Bron should be getting props for this (fuck Cleveland). He cares about rings and being on top. And he's still getting paid. Nothing to legitimately call it tbh

[Mike-in-brazil]

He does not have the competitive fire of Jordan, the bull-headed determination of Kobe Bryant, the quiet self-confidence of Tim Duncan, the willful defiance of Isiah or the winning-is-everything hunger of Magic Johnson.Beautiful phucking beautiful!!!!

Dude is pippen on steriods!!

[hitmanyr2k]

It's not the amount of points you score or stats you put up that make you a role player. It's your position on the team, in the league. Even when TP was averaging more points than Tim Duncan everyone knew that it was Duncan's team. He was the unquestioned leader, the superstar who led it all.

It's the same here. Wade is the unquestioned leader. He's the one who led his team almost single handedly to a title when they were all but done. He's the one that stayed home, Lebron and Bosh went to ride HIS coattail.

I'm not saying Lebron isn't a great player or that he's making the wrong decision. All I'm saying is that this exposes what he truly is - a second banana. He's not the chosen one or the king, he's a second fiddle to a more dominant leader. He can't take the pressure that Jordan did and be the top dog. He had to run from it and go to Wade's home to follow Wade.

That's what I mean by role player. It isn't his stats, it's his status on the team. If he wins titles now it will be as a complimentary player on Wade's team just like TP and Manu won titles as complimentary players on Duncan's team.

The difference is neither TP or Manu are claiming to be the chosen ones or the greatest in the game and this "brand", and now Lebron shouldn't either.

These knee jerk reactions are ridiculous :lol

Not ONE game has been played yet and people act like they know how shit is gonna go down or how these guys are going to play with each other or what their roles are gonna be. Follow Wade? Be Wade's sidekick? You act like Wade is coming off an NBA title or something. That was 4 years ago and Wade hasn't done shit since. When is the last time the Heat even got past the first round?

You or no one else on this forum has a crystal ball. You don't really know shit. You're as bad as Wilbon, Legler, Jon Barry and the rest of those ESPN idiots. You're all just spoutin dumb shit and sounding like idiots in the process.

[Whisky Dog]

People are making way too much out of this.

LeBron just wants to win championships. Period. I'm sure he's thought this over a thousand times. He knows that if he goes down to Miami to play with Wade that it will diminish his legacy.

Has he ever said he plans on surpassing Jordan by doing so? No. Every player is different. This is just the route he has chosen. Be a team player on a team full of stars and maybe create the best team ever. There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

A guy who calls himself a king and the chosen one doesn't just decide that he's ok playing second fiddle. IMO he was talked into this and had no idea it would completely ruin his "brand".

Here's the deal... He's going to be a second fiddle in Miami, so he should immediately stop calling himself the King and chosen one. Nike should immediately stop with that line of marketing, because we all now know he isn't the King. A king is first and foremost the leader. He's a follower.

[Giuseppe]

You're all just spoutin dumb shit and sounding like idiots in the process.

The Spurs fellows started it last night. Especially Harlem and that idiot Mid.

- "God, I hate that guy."

- "Brain" - "Escape from New York"

[Whisky Dog]

These knee jerk reactions are ridiculous :lol

Not ONE game has been played yet and people act like they know how shit is gonna go down or how these guys are going to play with each other or what their roles are gonna be. Follow Wade? Be Wade's sidekick? You act like Wade is coming off an NBA title or something. That was 4 years ago and Wade hasn't done shit since. When is the last time the Heat even got past the first round?

You or no one else on this forum has a crystal ball. You don't really know shit. You're as bad as Wilbon, Legler, Jon Barry and the rest of those ESPN idiots. You're all just spoutin dumb shit and sounding like idiots in the process.

You don't get it. No game has to be played, the situation dictated it. Did Wade leave to follow James to Cleveland? No. James followed. He's the follower and Miami is Wade's team. It can never be Lebron's team as long as Wade is there. No matter who does what or puts up how many points it will always be known that Lebron left his franchise in the most publicly insulting way possible to be a second banana in Miami. It's just the way it is.

[z0sa]

Here's the deal... He's going to be a second fiddle in Miami,

How are you so sure of this? Because Wade won a title 4 years ago? Because it's Wade's "town"?

None of that means jack. This is a completely new team, being built from the ground up around 3 legitimate superstars.

All of them have talked. All of them are no doubt preaching a team first, title-first mentality to eachother. LeBron doesn't regret his decision.

[Brazil]

For a minute I thought ducks had finally got a decent grasp of the English language. I mean, this post is grammatically correct with no spelling errors. Then I searched a bit.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4489115&postcount=161

Nice copy-and-paste ducks :tu

:lol wtf ducks ?

[Whisky Dog]

How are you so sure of this? Because Wade won a title 4 years ago? Because it's Wade's "town"?

None of that means jack. This is a completely new team, being built from the ground up around 3 legitimate superstars.

All of them have talked. All of them are no doubt preaching a team first, title-first mentality to eachother. LeBron doesn't regret his decision.

So the Spurs could sign Dwight Howard to play along TD and the Spurs would become Howard's team? Nope. It just doesn't happen like that.


What's so hard to understand? A guy who proclaims himself to be the king and the chosen one and is marketed as such for 7+ years all of a sudden says I can't handle the pressure of having to score 30 a night and shoot a high percentage. So now he's going to follow a superstar to play on his team to take the pressure off of him. You don't see how that is absolutely fraudulent?

[z0sa]

So the Spurs could sign Dwight Howard to play along TD and the Spurs would become Howard's team? Nope. It just doesn't happen like that.

If the Spurs signed DHo, I guarantee you it would be "his" team. Timmy would be all for it, too; remember when DRob passed the torch?

Honestly, that's a bad analogy to prove your point. Got another hypothetical?



What's so hard to understand? A guy who proclaims himself to be the king and the chosen one and is marketed as such for 7+ years all of a sudden says I can't handle the pressure of having to score 30 a night

He didn't anything like that. He said he wants to win titles and contend for them for a long time. It doesn't have anything to do with being or not being the man. It has everything to do with winning his last game every season while still getting paid.


and shoot a high percentage. So now he's going to follow a superstar to play on his team to take the pressure off of him. You don't see how that is absolutely fraudulent?

"Follow"? How is he following anyone? He went to the team with the most guaranteed talent. He just formed a triad of superstars. That simple. This "following" stuff is just a wrong interpretation of the events.

[hitmanyr2k]

You don't get it. No game has to be played, the situation dictated it. Did Wade leave to follow James to Cleveland? No. James followed. He's the follower and Miami is Wade's team. It can never be Lebron's team as long as Wade is there. No matter who does what or puts up how many points it will always be known that Lebron left his franchise in the most publicly insulting way possible to be a second banana in Miami. It's just the way it is.

I don't think you get it. Who was gonna follow Lebron to Cleveland? The writing is on the wall. No top free agents want to be in Cleveland lol. Cleveland can't compete with the likes of Chicago, NY, and Miami. Who gives a fuck if Miami is deemed as "Wade's team"? The Heat haven't seen the 2nd round of the playoffs since 2006 and have been drowning in mediocrity. Idiots act like Wade won a title last year and Lebron is jumping on for a free ride. It's dumbass logic.

[TDMVPDPOY]

espn give the clown a 1hr special, to build up his ego, then they ask him stupid questions trolling him....fail right there....

[z0sa]

I don't think you get it. Who was gonna follow Lebron to Cleveland? The writing is on the wall. No top free agents want to be in Cleveland lol. Cleveland can't compete with the likes of Chicago, NY, and Miami. Who gives a fuck if Miami is deemed as "Wade's team"? The Heat haven't seen the 2nd round of the playoffs since 2006 and have been drowning in mediocrity. Idiots act like Wade won a title last year and Lebron is jumping on for a free ride. It's dumbass logic.

Very well said.

If Wade and Bosh would have joined LeBron in Cleveland, it wouldn't have been LeBron's team, either. 3 legit superstars joining forces to win a title means that they're putting their egos aside. At least, that's how it appears, and all the evidence points to that. Any other arguments are rooted in something other than the facts at this point.

[Whisky Dog]

If the Spurs signed DHo, I guarantee you it would be "his" team. Timmy would be all for it, too; remember when DRob passed the torch?

Honestly, that's a bad analogy to prove your point. Got another hypothetical?




He didn't anything like that. He said he wants to win titles and contend for them for a long time. It doesn't have anything to do with being or not being the man. It has everything to do with winning his last game every season while still getting paid.



"Follow"? How is he following anyone? He went to the team with the most guaranteed talent. He just formed a triad of superstars. That simple. This "following" stuff is just a wrong interpretation of the events.

1) Not if Timmy and Dwight were the same generation and TD won a title but Dwight didn't so he came to ride the coattail. Even now it wouldn't be Dwight's team as long as TD is around. David never won a title without TD putting up 30 and 15 on the Knicks in the finals.

2) He said the benefit of going to Miami is that he doesn't have to feel the pressure to score 30 a night and shoot a good percentage. He said that. Read the article I posted to start, it has a quote about that.

3) Wade has played and won a title in Miami. Lebron literally is following Wade to Miami. He's literally and figuratively following. How you can't see that is beyond me. Maybe you need to play some more modern warfare 2 and contemplate this some more so you can actually understand what is going on.

You didn't answer the question. How is a man who is proclaimed as the King for 7 years quitting on his team to go to a superstar's team and get the pressure of being the "king" off him not fraudluent?

Here's the issue. He's a product of the 21st century American hype machine. He was proclaimed a leader, a king, before he had the chance to show he isn't a leader at all.

[Whisky Dog]

Very well said.

If Wade and Bosh would have joined LeBron in Cleveland, it wouldn't have been LeBron's team, either. 3 legit superstars joining forces to win a title means that they're putting their egos aside. At least, that's how it appears, and all the evidence points to that. Any other arguments are rooted in something other than the facts at this point.

Ahh, to be so naive to think that's how it works. How cute.

[z0sa]

Ahh, to be so naive to think that's how it works. How cute.

:lol no reason to be butthurt because I think your opinion is totally baseless.

[monosylab1k]

For a minute I thought ducks had finally got a decent grasp of the English language. I mean, this post is grammatically correct with no spelling errors. Then I searched a bit.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4489115&postcount=161

Nice copy-and-paste ducks :tu

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[z0sa]

1) Not if Timmy and Dwight were the same generation and TD won a title but Dwight didn't so he came to ride the coattail. Even now it wouldn't be Dwight's team as long as TD is around. David never won a title without TD putting up 30 and 15 on the Knicks in the finals.

Hypothetical.


2) He said the benefit of going to Miami is that he doesn't have to feel the pressure to score 30 a night and shoot a good percentage. He said that. Read the article I posted to start, it has a quote about that.

So he wants to win titles. Let's crucify him to the tree of woe for that one.


3) Wade has played and won a title in Miami. Lebron literally is following Wade to Miami.

Kinda hard to follow someone who never moved.


He's literally and figuratively following. How you can't see that is beyond me. Maybe you need to play some more modern warfare 2 and contemplate this some more so you can actually understand what is going on.

:lol


You didn't answer the question. How is a man who is proclaimed as the King for 7 years quitting on his team to go to a superstar's team and get the pressure of being the "king" off him not fraudluent?

:lol he's only quitting in your opinion. It's a baseless opinion. Cleveland sucks, and no one cares about them, and they have no future. That's not quitting, that's doing what any other NBA player would do in the same circumstance.


Here's the issue. He's a product of the 21st century American hype machine. He was proclaimed a leader, a king, before he had the chance to show he isn't a leader at all.

In your baseless opinion. The reality is, he led that team further than they'd ever been, with a shitty supporting cast. Reality is, Cleveland should be thankful they got the King for 7 years and he was able to drag them as far as he did.

[Roddy Beaubois]

This article = :tu

[TheManFromAcme]

How are you so sure of this? Because Wade won a title 4 years ago? Because it's Wade's "town"?

None of that means jack. This is a completely new team, being built from the ground up around 3 legitimate superstars.

All of them have talked. All of them are no doubt preaching a team first, title-first mentality to eachother. LeBron doesn't regret his decision.

Stop. Please stop.

The Heat is Wade's team.

He made his decision 18 hours ago of course he hasn't regreted anything.

[Roddy Beaubois]

People are making way too much out of this.

LeBron just wants to win championships. Period. I'm sure he's thought this over a thousand times. He knows that if he goes down to Miami to play with Wade that it will diminish his legacy.

Has he ever said he plans on surpassing Jordan by doing so? No. Every player is different. This is just the route he has chosen. Be a team player on a team full of stars and maybe create the best team ever. There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

If he wanted to win championships, maybe he should do it like most superstars, by working hard in the offseason and improving their game. But, Lebron got so sick of the criticism that he took the easy way our and joined a super team.

[TheManFromAcme]

Very well said.

If Wade and Bosh would have joined LeBron in Cleveland, it wouldn't have been LeBron's team, either. 3 legit superstars joining forces to win a title means that they're putting their egos aside. At least, that's how it appears, and all the evidence points to that. Any other arguments are rooted in something other than the facts at this point.

textbook paranoid delusion.

Geez, louise.....:lol

[z0sa]

textbook paranoid delusion.

You obviously haven't taken a psychology course.

[TheManFromAcme]

You obviously haven't taken a psychology course.

And I also know your not freud.

Stop justifying Lebrons departure.
The guy is a coward. The sooner you accept it the better you will feel. I promise.

[z0sa]

And I also know your not freud.

Stop justifying Lebrons departure.
The guy is a coward. The sooner you accept it the better you will feel. I promise.

Dude, I'm glad he left. He made a great decision. There's nothing to justify AFAIC. Anyone who is trying to say otherwise is just hating because he made a decision in his best interest for winning while getting paid in a badass city rather than ______.

[Cry Havoc]

And I also know your not freud.

Stop justifying Lebrons departure.
The guy is a coward. The sooner you accept it the better you will feel. I promise.

:lmao @ Laker fans reaction to this.

[TheManFromAcme]

Dude, I'm glad he left. He made a great decision. There's nothing to justify AFAIC. Anyone who is trying to say otherwise is just hating because he made a decision in his best interest for winning while getting paid in a badass city rather than ______.

and I'll I am saying is that I believe he still had a shot in Cleveland. Not hating on Bron.

Call it a soft spot for Cleveland. All B.S. aside regarding that town, I was hoping that Bron would have stayed a bit longer. That's all.

[HankChinaski]

Why are you people still talking about this?

Why are people insistent that they'll be NBA champion contenders in their first season?

Its an amazing coup for Miami. They can build around these guys.

Cavaliers get a bitch slap of truth.

LBJ hurts his image now but nobody is going to care as much around the league outside of cleveland in a couple of years and butt hurt homers of other teams that feel a threat to their own chances of winning a ring for their homer team.

Now I have this to listen to along side with Gasol to lakers from cry baby fans.

[Cry Havoc]

and I'll I am saying is that I believe he still had a shot in Cleveland. Not hating on Bron.

Call it a soft spot for Cleveland. All B.S. aside regarding that town, I was hoping that Bron would have stayed a bit longer. That's all.

Who's the second best player in Cleveland over the past 7 years?

[TheManFromAcme]

Who's the second best player in Cleveland over the past 7 years?

moot point.

You idiots in here are always bashing the Kobester for needing someone else to win yet when it comes to Lebron you guys pull out the "he can't do it alone" card.

Which one is it you buttholes?