i think 95% of basketball fans suddenly grew vaginas last night

[stretch]

LMAO at all the bron/heat hate. you guys are ridiculous. hate on the way Bron went about doing his announcement. thats understandable. but hating on the fact that they want to make the most dominant team ever, is stupid as hell, and makes no sense.

[TheMACHINE]

nah...mono is right.

[lefty]

LMAO at all the bron/heat hate. you guys are ridiculous. hate on the way Bron went about doing his announcement. thats understandable. but hating on the fact that they want to make the most dominant team ever, is stupid as hell, and makes no sense.

Those are Laker fans

[monosylab1k]

I don't hate LeBron for going to Miami. I'm just disappointed he took the pussy way out.

[Roddy Beaubois]

He just wants a ring without working for it :cry

[monosylab1k]

I like how anytime someone disagrees with stretch, it automatically means they're a broad who grew a vagina.

Hangin out with a certain lakerfan too much imho

[MiamiHeat]

LMAO at all the bron/heat hate. you guys are ridiculous. hate on the way Bron went about doing his announcement. thats understandable. but hating on the fact that they want to make the most dominant team ever, is stupid as hell, and makes no sense.

thats fact right there

[MiamiHeat]

He just wants a ring without working for it :cry

look at the laker and boston lineups.

when healthy, it's been Lakers-Celtics for the past 3 years since their trades.

there's only 1 way to take them out. to create your own superteam. and that's a fact.

[z0sa]

wow stretch, we agree

LeBron is already a 2 time MVP who took Drew Gooden and an injured Larry Hughes to the Finals and Mo Williams/old Shaq to league best records. He's broke shit tons of records on his way to doing it and lived up the hype in every way possible. He supported Cleveland all the way to the end and made it clear it is hard for him to leave his home but he wants to win and the Heat gives him the best chance for doing that.

Did ppl say this shit when Boston was curbstomping LA in 08?

lol you still

[stretch]

I don't hate LeBron for going to Miami. I'm just disappointed he took the pussy way out.

How is this the "pussy" way out?

The dude is doing exactly what every NBA players goal should be... to help a team win as many championships as possible. Lebron put himself in the best possible position to do so. Just because he isn't leading a team as the clearcut #1 (as opposed to a 1a/1b option), doesnt mean hes pussing out of anything. He didn't have much else to prove in Cleveland. He won 2 MVPs, led them to multiple 60+ win seasons, a Finals appearance, and a number of memorable performances, including probably the most dominant closure to a game the league has ever seen. he did WAYYYY more than anyone else has ever done there, and did it all with a shitty ass team around him, that was only going to get worse. Lebron had NO chance of being able to reach GOAT status if he stayed in cleveland, because they are pretty much fucked for the future. A bunch of awful and long contracts to mediocre players, no cap space to get anyone better... they were as good as they could get, and would only decline from where they were.

Lebron had a number of different roads to take, but going to Miami was the one that would give him the best chance to win the most. He's smart as hell for taking it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

there's only 1 way to take them out. to create your own superteam. and that's a fact.


Or, if you have the physical gifts Lebron has, simply develop a post game so the Celtics can't have Tony Allen guard you. That would probably work too.

[Muser]

You might want to change your avatar.

[BadOdor]

I could be wrong, but wasn't it stretch who made that thread crying about when laker fans woulden't cheer for dirk and his 20k career points?

lol stretch.

[stretch]

I like how anytime someone disagrees with stretch, it automatically means they're a broad who grew a vagina.

Hangin out with a certain lakerfan too much imho

disagreeing is one thing.

but acting like a total poon and getting asshurt because lebron went to Miami is another thing.

[kamikazi_player]

I actually agree with stretch :wow
If he would have stayed at Cleveland, people would have bitched and cried that he just wants the most money possible.
If he would have gone to any other place, people will find a reason to bitch especially if he went to NY.
Nobody didn't like the way he left, but he's a freakin free agent and he did not have to tell the Cavs owner about leaving. Especially how the owner feels right now, if Lebron told him in person, he woulda gone on a tirade

[Venti Quattro]

I don't hate them. But I badly want to beat them.

[monosylab1k]

You might want to change your avatar.

:lol

[monosylab1k]

Just because he isn't leading a team as the clearcut #1 (as opposed to a 1a/1b option), doesnt mean hes pussing out of anything.

okay

[stretch]

You might want to change your avatar.

lol just did

[IronMexican]

I'm actually excited for this basketball season. I was very disinterested in it this past season. This is good.

[monosylab1k]

I actually agree with stretch :wow
If he would have stayed at Cleveland, people would have bitched and cried that he just wants the most money possible.
If he would have gone to any other place, people will find a reason to bitch especially if he went to NY.
Nobody didn't like the way he left, but he's a freakin free agent and he did not have to tell the Cavs owner about leaving. Especially how the owner feels right now, if Lebron told him in person, he woulda gone on a tirade

shut up slut you're causin too much chaos just bend over and take it like a slut okay mom?

[monosylab1k]

I'm actually excited for this basketball season. I was very disinterested in it this past season. This is good.

tbh I have no interest whatsoever for the next season. Exactly two teams are chasing a title. Two. Everybody else doesn't have a chance in hell.

I'll watch the Finals to root against whichever shit sandwich will taste worse.

[Giuseppe]

I don't hate them. But I badly want to beat them.

Yep, yep.

[stretch]

Or, if you have the physical gifts Lebron has, simply develop a post game so the Celtics can't have Tony Allen guard you. That would probably work too.

A post game wouldn't give him a second option to rely on for scoring. He would simply get doubled in the post, and have to do the exact same thing he was previously forced to do... pass the ball out only to see Mo Williams airball wide open 3s or turn it over

[Venti Quattro]

I'm actually excited for this basketball season. I was very disinterested in it this past season. This is good.

Think this season was sweet? Wait until we get that three peat next season.

[kamikazi_player]

shut up slut you're causin too much chaos just bend over and take it like a slut okay mom?

:cry:cry:cry
lol monostrodamus predicting wrong

[IronMexican]

tbh I have no interest whatsoever for the next season. Exactly two teams are chasing a title. Two. Everybody else doesn't have a chance in hell.

Understood.

[dallaskd]

The GOAT shouldnt need a cop-out or even want one

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

tbh I have no interest whatsoever for the next season. Exactly two teams are chasing a title. Two. Everybody else doesn't have a chance in hell.


Yup. I wish I was a bandwagon fan like the Spurs fans on here who are just gonna switch teams now that Duncan is over the hill, but 28/30 teams are irrelevant, and my favorite team is 1 of the 28.

[stretch]

I'm actually excited for this basketball season. I was very disinterested in it this past season. This is good.

I'm pretty excited. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun to see how Miami plays, and how the rest of the league responds to the constant attention that they and the Lakers will be getting for the whole year.

[IronMexican]

Think this season was sweet? Wait until we get that three peat next season.

The whole 2008-2009 season was so boring, besides a somewhat interesting Finals.

Next year is gonna be suh-weet.

[z0sa]

Or, if you have the physical gifts Lebron has, simply develop a post game so the Celtics can't have Tony Allen guard you. That would probably work too.

Dude averages 28, 7 and 7 and you're beating him up over what again? :lol

You slink to lower depths each passing minute.

[monosylab1k]

:cry:cry:cry
lol monostrodamus predicting wrong

"Oh, now he's raping his own mother, abusing a whore,
snorting coke, and we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?"
You god damn right BITCH, and now it's too late
I'm triple platinum and tragedies happen in two states
I invented violence, you vile venomous volatile bitches
vain Vicadin, vrinnn Vrinnn, VRINNN

[monosylab1k]

I'm pretty excited. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun to see how Miami plays, and how the rest of the league responds to the constant attention that they and the Lakers will be getting for the whole year.

I generally go into a season more excited about how the team I root for will perform, but unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore.

[IronMexican]

I think we can see a 2007-2008 like NFL regular season. Everyone expecting the cowboys and pats to meet in the Super Bowl, and one not getting there.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Dude averages 28, 7 and 7 and you're beating him up over what again? :lol

You slink to lower depths each passing minute.


The only one slinking to lower depths is the one who is switching bandwagons because the team hes been a fan of since 2003 is no longer a contender.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

The process is what pisses me off. The actual decision doesn't bother me. It just shows that this whole time we were wrong about thinking LeBron's desire was to be a champion and the leader, maybe even GOAT. He knows he blew his shot at that. I guess he's okay with being the second option and getting rings. Which isn't really all that wrong.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I generally go into a season more excited about how the team I root for will perform

I guess stretch and Spurfan no longer cheer for what was their favorite team.

[stretch]

The GOAT shouldnt need a cop-out or even want one

Bron isn't the GOAT, and doesnt care to be. He wants to win as many championships as possible. and thats my points.

Bron isn't taking the "Kobe approach" to this, and trying to do whatever he can to surpass MJ's legacy. He's doing whatever he can to win and create his own legacy. The more he wins, the better his legacy will get, and he knows that winning is what matters, not scoring 35 ppg for a season, or having 81 point games.

[z0sa]

The only one slinking to lower depths is the one who is switching bandwagons because the team hes been a fan of since 2003 is no longer a contender.

:lol deflection

you're a hypocrite with no fucking logic behind a thing you say.

[stretch]

I generally go into a season more excited about how the team I root for will perform, but unfortunately it doesn't matter anymore.

Cool. I am excited to see how the Mavs do. And it will also be fun to see what happens with Miami.

[monosylab1k]

you're a hypocrite with no fucking logic behind a thing you say.

:lol that's almost as much self ownage as ducks accusing someone else of poor spelling and grammar

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol deflection

you're a hypocrite with no fucking logic behind a thing you say.

lol a creationist telling me about logic

Are you saying Lebron shouldn't develop a post game? I don't give a shit what he averages, when Boston can stick Tony Allen on him, it exposes the fact he can't post someone up who weighs 40 pounds less than he does.

[monosylab1k]

I am excited to see how the Mavs do.

Why?

[stretch]

the process is what pisses me off. The actual decision doesn't bother me. It just shows that this whole time we were wrong about thinking lebron's desire was to be a champion and the leader, maybe even goat. He knows he blew his shot at that. I guess he's okay with being the second option and getting rings. Which isn't really all that wrong.

+1

[z0sa]

Bron isn't the GOAT, and doesnt care to be. He wants to win as many championships as possible. and thats my points.

Bron isn't taking the "Kobe approach" to this, and trying to do whatever he can to surpass MJ's legacy. He's doing whatever he can to win and create his own legacy. The more he wins, the better his legacy will get, and he knows that winning is what matters, not scoring 35 ppg for a season, or having 81 point games.

Damn, well said stretch.

LeBron cares about winning, while getting paid, while living in a badass city. What other free agents get shit when they make their decisions based on these 3 things?

[Baseline]

wow stretch, we agree

LeBron is already a 2 time MVP who took Drew Gooden and an injured Larry Hughes to the Finals and Mo Williams/old Shaq to league best records. He's broke shit tons of records on his way to doing it and lived up the hype in every way possible. He supported Cleveland all the way to the end and made it clear it is hard for him to leave his home but he wants to win and the Heat gives him the best chance for doing that.

Did ppl say this shit when Boston was curbstomping LA in 08?

lol you still

This...absolutely true. I just don't understand all the hate. The guy simply wants to win.

In my opinion LeBron is doing the unselfish basketball thing and joining a team with two other stars...so he can win titles. To me, from a basketball standpoint, this is indicative of the way he plays - unselfish, making other guys better, elevating his team's play, etc.

Look what he did with crappy supporting casts in Cleveland. The Cavs were a force for the last several years, and everybody knows they were a one-man team. Boston took them out with no problem last year because Thibideaux knew exactly what to do. Same thing with Orlando the year before. Well guess what, if he had stayed in Cleveland, they would've continued to be a one-man team with no titles.

If he had stayed in Cleveland, he would have almost certainly broken the all-time record for regular season MVP trophies. If he was all about individual accolades, why would he leave? But what he traded that for was the opportunity to win titles, realizing that his indvidual stats will drop.

Would K. Bryant ever do that? Absolutely not. Bryant is all about himself. Bryant eats first.

LeBron just chose to eat with Wade and Bosh. From a basketball standpoint, that is the "team" play. That is unselfish.

[stretch]

Why?

Excited to see how Beaubois' game evolves. To see how Butler and Haywood perform alongside Dirk and Kidd after a legit chance to get accustomed to the team/system. And to see how the moves the Mavs will be soon making (whether by trades, signings, etc...) pans out.

[Mugen]

dont group us with lakerfan who made a bunch of threads last night that reeked of fear and butthurt old stretchy poo.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Excited to see how Beaubois' game evolves. To see how Butler and Haywood perform alongside Dirk and Kidd after a legit chance to get accustomed to the team/system. And to see how the moves the Mavs will be soon making (whether by trades, signings, etc...) pans out.


Are you excited about their chances at winning a championship?

[23LeBronJames23]

Think this season was sweet? Wait until we get that three peat next season.

Nigga please! OKC will knock you out the playoffs Lakers just got lucky last year

[monosylab1k]

Excited to see how Beaubois' game evolves. To see how Butler and Haywood perform alongside Dirk and Kidd after a legit chance to get accustomed to the team/system. And to see how the moves the Mavs will be soon making (whether by trades, signings, etc...) pans out.

They're doomed to fail.

The DUST chip was here to make the Mavs a title contender. Your ass buddy LeBron just wiped any title contention the Mavs had into the toilet, along with the competitive balance of the entire league.

[TheMACHINE]

How is this the "pussy" way out?

The dude is doing exactly what every NBA players goal should be... to help a team win as many championships as possible.

Stretch is right...Lebron wants to HELP a team instead of LEADING a team.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

It's just disappointing that LeBron took himself out of the running of being the GOAT. He had a decent chance at it. He's not doing anything wrong by going to Miami, but it's been awhile since the league saw a player like him dominate in every aspect. Now he'll sacrifice some of that to get rings. Again, it's not bad. But it leaves a sour "what if?".

[Venti Quattro]

Nigga please! OKC will knock you out the playoffs Lakers just got lucky last year

Boston also got lucky last year, non-issue

[Cry Havoc]

Bron isn't the GOAT, and doesnt care to be. He wants to win as many championships as possible. and thats my points.

Bron isn't taking the "Kobe approach" to this, and trying to do whatever he can to surpass MJ's legacy. He's doing whatever he can to win and create his own legacy. The more he wins, the better his legacy will get, and he knows that winning is what matters, not scoring 35 ppg for a season, or having 81 point games.


Damn, well said stretch.

LeBron cares about winning, while getting paid, while living in a badass city. What other free agents get shit when they make their decisions based on these 3 things?

:tu

The anger here is just hilarious.

"WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!? LeBron wants to go play on a team that ACTUALLY HAS GOOD PLAYERS!? OUTRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE."

lol Kareem
lol McHale
lol Parish
lol Pippen
lol Shaq
lol Manu
lol Parker
lol Gasol

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Everyone on this site should either change their favorite team to Miami Heat or Los Angeles Lakers since no other team has a chance.

[MiamiHeat]

actually

LeBron's words were

"I look forward to going to Miami and LEADING them to a title"

he said the word "lead"

and we know LeBron is better than Wade and Bosh...

u guys nuts

[IronMexican]

Nigga please! OKC will knock you out the playoffs Lakers just got lucky last year

You a heat fan now?

[stretch]

Are you excited about their chances at winning a championship?

You never know what can happen. See 2007 Patriots. lol 18*-1


They're doomed to fail.

The DUST chip was here to make the Mavs a title contender. Your ass buddy LeBron just wiped any title contention the Mavs had into the toilet, along with the competitive balance of the entire league.

:rolleyes

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You never know what can happen. See 2007 Patriots. lol 18*-1


lol comparing a league with tons of upsets to a league that almost never has upsets.

[monosylab1k]

You never know what can happen. See 2007 Patriots. lol 18*-1

Oh you mean the league where there's a competitive balance and more than 2 teams have a shot at a title every season?

[MiamiHeat]

Everyone on this site should either change their favorite team to Miami Heat or Los Angeles Lakers since no other team has a chance.

AND THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM LAST YEAR HOW?

your entire CONFERENCE was FUCKED since Feb 2008.

and the Eastern conference was fucked since 2007 as long as Boston is healthy.

now you are butthurt?

[stretch]

Stretch is right...Lebron wants to HELP a team instead of LEADING a team.

neat


It's just disappointing that LeBron took himself out of the running of being the GOAT. He had a decent chance at it. He's not doing anything wrong by going to Miami, but it's been awhile since the league saw a player like him dominate in every aspect. Now he'll sacrifice some of that to get rings. Again, it's not bad. But it leaves a sour "what if?".

very possible, especially if they dont succeed in the way they hope to. but if they win 6, 7, or 8+ championships, there probably won't be any sour "what ifs"

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Oh you mean the league where there's a competitive balance and more than 2 teams have a shot at a title every season?

Yup that league.

lol comparing the league with great parody to a league with no parody

[monosylab1k]

lol Kareem
lol McHale
lol Parish
lol Pippen
lol Shaq
lol Manu
lol Parker
lol Gasol

lol putting Manu and Parker on that list

[TheMACHINE]

:tu

The anger here is just hilarious.

"WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!? LeBron wants to go play on a team that ACTUALLY HAS GOOD PLAYERS!? OUTRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE."

lol Kareem
lol McHale
lol Parish
lol Pippen
lol Shaq
lol Manu
lol Parker
lol Gasol

damn...parker gasol manu pippen parish were top 3 players in thier time? CRAZY! I must have missed that!

[stretch]

Oh you mean the league where there's a competitive balance and more than 2 teams have a shot at a title every season?

LMAO

YOU were the one saying even before pre-season that the Pats would go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and be the greatest team ever. Obviously you didn't believe there was a "competitive balance" at that time. :rolleyes

[Roddy Beaubois]

:madrun hes putting himself in a good position to win a ring without actually having to work :madrun

[JamStone]

I don't hate LeBron for going to Miami. I'm just disappointed he took the pussy way out.

+1

He was good enough as an individual player to lead his team all the way to the NBA Finals and back-to-back best records in the league. He should have looked at that and took on the challenge to winning that title as "the man."

It is a double-edge sword though. If he stays in Cleveland or goes to New York to be "the man" then he's just in it for the money or the limelight and isn't as concerned about winning. So in that way of looking at it, I applaud LeBron for setting aside his ego and being more about going to a team with a really great chance to win and win a lot. He was going to take heat no matter what his decision, even if he stayed in Cleveland. Not as much heat if he returned there, but people would still call him foolish and about the max money.

But it really does show how different LeBron is from a lot of other superstars. They want help, they need great teammates, but they have to be the alpha dog. They have to be "the man," "the guy." It does show maybe he does lack that killer instinct or fiery determination to be the greatest player ever. But maybe he really didn't ever care about that...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

LMAO

YOU were the one saying even before pre-season that the Pats would go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and be the greatest team ever. Obviously you didn't believe there was a "competitive balance" at that time. :rolleyes


But there was, wasn't there?

[Venti Quattro]

Yup that league.

lol comparing the league with great parody to a league with no parody

Parody or parity?

[monosylab1k]

LMAO

YOU were the one saying even before pre-season that the Pats would go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and be the greatest team ever. Obviously you didn't believe there was a "competitive balance" at that time. :rolleyes

A fan predicting great things for his team, yeah that proves the NFL has no competitive balance!

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

lol putting Manu and Parker on that list

:lol

[z0sa]

:tu

The anger here is just hilarious.

Yep. LeBron literally cannot be criticized about his decision, no matter how much one thinks his actual revelation was narcissistic and cruel.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Everyone on this site should either change their favorite team to Miami Heat or Los Angeles Lakers since no other team has a chance.

:lol

[stretch]

lol comparing the league with great parody to a league with no parody

explain 03-04 Pistons beating 03-04 Lakers

or 06-07 Warriors beating 06-07 Mavericks

Lakers and Mavericks were undeniably better teams. Unfortunately they went cold at a bad time, and ran into bad matchups, and lost to inferior teams. It happens in NBA too.

[monosylab1k]

explain 03-04 Pistons beating 03-04 Lakers

or 06-07 Warriors beating 06-07 Mavericks

Lakers and Mavericks were undeniably better teams. Unfortunately they went cold at a bad time, and ran into bad matchups, and lost to inferior teams. It happens in NBA too.

two upsets in the past 7 years :lol

two upsets in the NFL is "a typical Wild Card weekend"

[stretch]

LMAO @ DoK and Mono now just reaching for reasons to explain their unexplainable hate on Lebron.

It was ridiculously predictable that you two would be the main ones in this thread, because you both constantly make arguments based on emotion like a mofo.

[z0sa]

two upsets in the past 7 years :lol

two upsets in the NFL is "a typical Wild Card weekend"

Blame 7 game series for that.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

two upsets in the past 7 years :lol

two upsets in the NFL is "a typical Wild Card weekend"


:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

We've had two upsets since 2004 :cry, there is tons of parity in the NBA :cry!!!

[Roddy Beaubois]

Lebron should have gone to Chicago. Good enough supporting cast, not another mans team.

[stretch]

two upsets in the past 7 years :lol

two upsets in the NFL is "a typical Wild Card weekend"

'10 Spurs over '10 Mavs.

another upset, due to shitty coaching

[monosylab1k]

I love watching my team because of hope.

When the Mavs sucked in the 90's I had hope they'd improve.

When they broke the wall and reached the playoffs, there was hope they'd take another step.

When they broke that wall and took another step, there was title hopes.

They've been stuck at that step for years, but I've always still had hope that the Mavs could make a move here or there and break through to a title. Was the hope a bit unrealistic at times? Sure, but it was there, it was tangible, and nobody could 100% say the Mavs had no chance whatsoever.

Now, after this? No hope. Nothing. There's no point. I can watch and root and want them to win, but I have no hopes for my team anymore. I don't want them to suck, but at least when they sucked, I watched them with hope.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

'08 Cardinals over '08 Panthers
'07 Giants over '07 Patriots
'07 Giants over '07 Cowboys
'09 Jets over '09 Chargers
'01 CHEATriots (:lmao) over '01 Rams

I can think of a bunch more and it took all of 30 seconds to come up with those upsets off the top of my head.

[stretch]

We've had two upsets since 2004 :cry, there is tons of parity in the NBA :cry!!!

since apparently you guys are defining "higher seed beating a lower seed" as upsets, which is technically what they are (although we all know seeding doesnt mean everything)

there were 3 upsets this year alone

Spurs over Mavs
Jazz over Nuggets
Celtics over Magic

[crc21209]

look at the laker and boston lineups.

When healthy, it's been lakers-celtics for the past 3 years since their trades.

There's only 1 way to take them out. To create your own superteam. And that's a fact.

+1

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

When I say upset, I mean where no one expects a team to have a chance. All Western teams outside of LA were evenly matched, so one beating the other isn't an upset.

In the NBA, there are 2-3 teams (on a very rare occasion 4) that have a chance at winning a championship. In the NFL there are surprise contenders every year. It's actually true that anything can happen in the NFL playoffs. In the NBA not so much.

[Cry Havoc]

lol putting Manu and Parker on that list

Duncan didn't win a title alone. Shocker.

In fact, it shows how good Duncan was, considering the help he had vs. the other players listed in the championship runs of other teams.

[crc21209]

How is this the "pussy" way out?

The dude is doing exactly what every NBA players goal should be... to help a team win as many championships as possible. Lebron put himself in the best possible position to do so. Just because he isn't leading a team as the clearcut #1 (as opposed to a 1a/1b option), doesnt mean hes pussing out of anything. He didn't have much else to prove in Cleveland. He won 2 MVPs, led them to multiple 60+ win seasons, a Finals appearance, and a number of memorable performances, including probably the most dominant closure to a game the league has ever seen. he did WAYYYY more than anyone else has ever done there, and did it all with a shitty ass team around him, that was only going to get worse. Lebron had NO chance of being able to reach GOAT status if he stayed in cleveland, because they are pretty much fucked for the future. A bunch of awful and long contracts to mediocre players, no cap space to get anyone better... they were as good as they could get, and would only decline from where they were.

Lebron had a number of different roads to take, but going to Miami was the one that would give him the best chance to win the most. He's smart as hell for taking it.

+1. Damn, I actually agree with stretch...:lol

[TheMACHINE]

Duncan didn't win a title alone. Shocker.

In fact, it shows how good Duncan was, considering the help he had vs. the other players listed in the championship runs of other teams.

Yes, Duncan LEAD his team. Thats why his legacy will be great.

[crc21209]

Duncan didn't win a title alone. Shocker.

In fact, it shows how good Duncan was, considering the help he had vs. the other players listed in the championship runs of other teams.

Thats exactly why with LeBron leaving the Cavs, the Spurs will forever be known as the only small-market team to get the job done..:tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Duncan didn't win a title alone. Shocker.


What Duncan did in 2003 is something Lebron will never do.

[monosylab1k]

Spurs over Mavs
Jazz over Nuggets
Celtics over Magic

Those aren't upsets. I don't care what their seeding was, those are evenly matched teams playing each other.

An upset is if someone knocked off the Lakers. And upset is if Charlotte somehow beat Orlando. And upset is a truly inferior team finding a way to beat the superior team.

Upsets don't happen in the NBA. Well twice in seven years.

[Veterinarian]

I agree with Stretch on everything but the most dominant closer performance ever. The 07 Pistons are nowhere close to some of the teams Jordan put away. The performance isn't even in Jordan's top 5.

[stretch]

'08 Cardinals over '08 Panthers
'07 Giants over '07 Patriots
'07 Giants over '07 Cowboys
'09 Jets over '09 Chargers
'01 CHEATriots (:lmao) over '01 Rams

I can think of a bunch more and it took all of 30 seconds to come up with those upsets off the top of my head.

last year

houston over portland
orlando over boston
orlando over cleveland

[crc21209]

When I say upset, I mean where no one expects a team to have a chance. All Western teams outside of LA were evenly matched, so one beating the other isn't an upset.

In the NBA, there are 2-3 teams (on a very rare occasion 4) that have a chance at winning a championship. In the NFL there are surprise contenders every year. It's actually true that anything can happen in the NFL playoffs. In the NBA not so much.

Yeah because the NFL doesnt have the "series" format like the NBA and MLB. In the NFL playoffs, its win or go home and any team can beat any other team on any given day..

[Veterinarian]

Tbh I wasn't that much of a fan of the way he did it, but it was worth it just to see all the way over the top butthurtedness from people who are getting way melodramatic.

[z0sa]

Those aren't upsets. I don't care what their seeding was, those are evenly matched teams playing each other.

An upset is if someone knocked off the Lakers. And upset is if Charlotte somehow beat Orlando. And upset is a truly inferior team finding a way to beat the superior team.

Upsets don't happen in the NBA. Well twice in seven years.

Has everything to do with the format imho.

[stretch]

When I say upset, I mean where no one expects a team to have a chance. All Western teams outside of LA were evenly matched, so one beating the other isn't an upset.

In the NBA, there are 2-3 teams (on a very rare occasion 4) that have a chance at winning a championship. In the NFL there are surprise contenders every year. It's actually true that anything can happen in the NFL playoffs. In the NBA not so much.

giants had a legit chance over cowboys

cardinals had a legit chance over panthers

jets had a legit chance over chargers

the only true upsets of the decade in the NFL, where people thought the team had NO chance (as you put it) was Giants over Pats, and Pats over Rams.

[monosylab1k]

last year

houston over portland
orlando over boston
orlando over cleveland

:lol

evenly matched team with a 5 seed over evenly matched team with a 4 seed

WHAT AN UPSET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Killakobe81]

LOL im glad he went there if they fail it will be hilarious ...if they make finals we have the first truly star packed finals ...of recent years ...

Kobe, Pau and Phil vs. young Money

[BadOdor]

Sons there's no point of being an LA fan either, how the hell is any team supposed to beat this super team?


In the past, there was something called "guts" which prevented franchise players from pussying out and teaming with other franchise players.

[stretch]

What Duncan did in 2003 is something Lebron will never do.

You're right. Winning a championship in a weak year of basketball. Basketball today is FAR stronger than it was in early 2000s.

[stretch]

Those aren't upsets. I don't care what their seeding was, those are evenly matched teams playing each other.

An upset is if someone knocked off the Lakers. And upset is if Charlotte somehow beat Orlando. And upset is a truly inferior team finding a way to beat the superior team.

Upsets don't happen in the NBA. Well twice in seven years.

twice in 10 years for NFL. the only two teams that seemed to have no chance at winning, but won, were Giants over Pats and Pats over Rams

[024]

if you had to win a race and the choices of transportation was between a bike and a car, only a retarded person would choose the bike. even lance armstrong would choose the car.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

giants had a legit chance over cowboys

cardinals had a legit chance over panthers

jets had a legit chance over chargers

the only true upsets of the decade in the NFL, where people thought the team had NO chance (as you put it) was Giants over Pats, and Pats over Rams.


:lmao saying the Cards had a legit chance. Everyone on ESPN said they were gonna get their dicks chopped off and put in a meat grinder.

[stretch]

:lol

evenly matched team with a 5 seed over evenly matched team with a 4 seed

WHAT AN UPSET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

just going by definition, the same way DoK was by saying Jets over Chargers this year, or Cardinals over Panthers the previous year. that was simply a matter of seeding and slightly better record

[stretch]

:lmao saying the Cards had a legit chance. Everyone on ESPN said they were gonna get their dicks chopped off and put in a meat grinder.

:lmao ESPN

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

stretch, are you seriously trying to argue that there are as many upsets in the NBA playoffs as there are in the NFL playoffs?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

just going by definition, the same way DoK was by saying Jets over Chargers this year, or Cardinals over Panthers the previous year. that was simply a matter of seeding and slightly better record


Panthers were 12-4, Cardinals were 9-7 only because of a 6-0 record in a weakass division. Being 3 games better with a much stronger schedule in a 16 game schedule is a slightly better record?

[monosylab1k]

just going by definition, the same way DoK was by saying Jets over Chargers this year, or Cardinals over Panthers the previous year. that was simply a matter of seeding and slightly better record

so a 9 win team beating a 12 win team isn't an upset?

That's like a 45 win team beating a 60 win team in the NBA. That's an upset that ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS in the NBA.

[Cry Havoc]

What Duncan did in 2003 is something Lebron will never do.

It's almost never been done before in NBA history. Maybe one of the Rocket teams with Hakeem did as much with as little, but almost no one else.

Even so: Parker, Manu, David, SJax, and the rest of that supporting cast would still have eaten the modern day Cavs ALIVE if Duncan and LeBron didn't play. Can you imagine Varejao trying to rebound against Malik Rose? AV would have had two techs in the first quarter the way Rose would have harassed him. Not to mention Bowen was on that team.

LeBron has never played with anyone near the caliber of Parker OR Manu.

[Veterinarian]

http://dialoguewithdaila.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/n68drama-queen-posters_jpg.jpg

[Fpoonsie]

'08 Cardinals over '08 Panthers
'07 Giants over '07 Patriots
'07 Giants over '07 Cowboys
'09 Jets over '09 Chargers
'01 CHEATriots (:lmao) over '01 Rams

I can think of a bunch more and it took all of 30 seconds to come up with those upsets off the top of my head.

:lol

I like how you put the year before BOTH teams.

"'09 49ers over '93 Cowboys...now THAT was an upset."

[picc84]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view/158389/lebron-dancing-2-o.gif

[stretch]

stretch, are you seriously trying to argue that there are as many upsets in the NBA playoffs as there are in the NFL playoffs?

absolutely not.

[Cry Havoc]

so a 9 win team beating a 12 win team isn't an upset?

That's like a 45 win team beating a 60 win team in the NBA. That's an upset that ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS in the NBA.

If playoffs in the NBA were one game (or even 3 games), you'd see a ton of upsets in the playoffs. 8 seeds would be winning it all with frequency.

[Cry Havoc]

:lol

I like how you put the year before BOTH teams.

"'09 49ers over '93 Cowboys...now THAT was an upset."

:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's almost never been done before in NBA history. Maybe one of the Rocket teams with Hakeem did as much with as little, but almost no one else.

Even so: Parker, Manu, David, SJax, and the rest of that supporting cast would still have eaten the modern day Cavs ALIVE if Duncan and LeBron didn't play. Can you imagine Varejao trying to rebound against Malik Rose? AV would have had two techs in the first quarter the way Rose would have harassed him. Not to mention Bowen was on that team.

LeBron has never played with anyone near the caliber of Parker OR Manu.


lol revising history and discounting what Duncan did to suit your argument.

Can I imagine Varejao trying to rebound against Malik Rose? No, a 7 footer grabbing a rebound over someone 5 inches shorter than he is is something I'm incapable of seeing.

In 2003, Parker was a 2nd year player who Greg Popovich loved so much he was ready to sign Jason Kidd as the new PG once the season was over. Ginobili was making his NBA debut and he averaged 7 PPG. Antwan Jamison is a way better player than either 2003 Parker or Manu. Mo Williams isn't any worse than 2003 Parker.

[stretch]

lol revising history and discounting what Duncan did to suit your argument.

Can I imagine Varejao trying to rebound against Malik Rose? No, a 7 footer grabbing a rebound over someone 5 inches shorter than he is is something I'm incapable of seeing.

In 2003, Parker was a 2nd year player who Greg Popovich loved so much he was ready to sign Jason Kidd as the new PG once the season was over. Ginobili was making his NBA debut and he averaged 7 PPG. Antwan Jamison is a way better player than either 2003 Parker or Manu. Mo Williams isn't any worse than 2003 Parker.

:lmao talk about revising history, when the guy was aquired in a midseason trade and didnt fit in whatsoever

[z0sa]

If playoffs in the NBA were one game (or even 3 games), you'd see a ton of upsets in the playoffs. 8 seeds would be winning it all with frequency.

The format means everything. Whenever it all hinges on a single game, anything can happen. When it takes 4 to win, the psychological and physical limitations of the inferior team get exposed almost inevitably.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lmao talk about revising history, when the guy was aquired in a midseason trade and didnt fit in whatsoever


I never said he was a good fit. I said he was a better player than 2003 Parker or Manu.

[Fpoonsie]

As several people already mentioned, I merely hate the way he handled everything. Setting CLE fans up for such devestation...live. I don't blame him for wanting the easier path to the 'chip. I DO, however, hold him accountable for THIS statement:

'My heart will always be around that area. But I also felt like this is the greatest challenge for me, is to move on.'

Really, 'Bron? Going to Miami is more challenging?

[Cry Havoc]

lol revising history and discounting what Duncan did to suit your argument.

Can I imagine Varejao trying to rebound against Malik Rose? No, a 7 footer grabbing a rebound over someone 5 inches shorter than he is is something I'm incapable of seeing.

In 2003, Parker was a 2nd year player who Greg Popovich loved so much he was ready to sign Jason Kidd as the new PG once the season was over. Ginobili was making his NBA debut and he averaged 7 PPG. Antwan Jamison is a way better player than either 2003 Parker or Manu. Mo Williams isn't any worse than 2003 Parker.

What? I already said Duncan took a team with no other bonafide superstar to the championship, something that's almost never been done in NBA history. How is that revising history?

Point being, Duncan's role players are still far and away better than ANYONE LeBron has had on his team. Mo Williams? 34 year old Antawn Jamison for half a season? Larry fucking Hughes is one of the 5 best players that LeBron has played with on the Cavs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lmao talk about revising history, when the guy was aquired in a midseason trade and didnt fit in whatsoever


absolutely not.


Then what are you saying? Are you trying to argue that any team outside the Heat or Lakers has a chance next year because the '07 Giants beat the Patriots? What mono and I were saying is that in the NFL playoffs pretty much any team has a shot (or hope as mono put it) to make a run and go the distance. When the NBA playoffs start next year, 14 out of 16 teams are gonna enter knowing they have next to no shot at going the distance.

[Veterinarian]

Its like a typhoon of butthurt flew through this place.

[monosylab1k]

Are you trying to argue that any team outside the Heat or Lakers has a chance next year because the '07 Giants beat the Patriots?

:lol exactly, the whole reason the NFL got brought up is because LeBron Knobslobbers act like Miami/LA aren't the only two teams with any shot because "hey, the Patriots got beat"

Now they've gone and argued against themselves over that :lmao

[Veterinarian]

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/f/f0/The_Butthurt_Squad.jpg/340px-The_Butthurt_Squad.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

I never said he was a good fit. I said he was a better player than 2003 Parker or Manu.

And he came in at midseason. A player is only as good as the way he can produce for his team.

Parker was great for the Spurs in 03. Second on the team in scoring but perfectly happy to let Duncan dominate.

What, exactly, was Jamison's role on the Cavs? He's only a good player on the team if he makes that team actually better than they were without him. The Cavs made a trade "just to get a guy" and it didn't work.

But yeah, LeBron should have taken the Cavs to the championship with a 34 year old aging hybrid post-perimeter player as his 2nd option. :lmao

[monosylab1k]

will someone please respond to one of Veterinarian's posts so that he'll feel acknowledged and leave? Everybody ignoring him is not cool, and it means he'll keep posting, and I'll keep having to skip over his replies to get to a post I actually want to read.

Oh wait, I guess I just gave him what he wanted.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

What? I already said Duncan took a team with no other bonafide superstar to the championship, something that's almost never been done in NBA history. How is that revising history?
Because you're embellishing how good Parker and Manu were in 2003.


Point being, Duncan's role players are still far and away better than ANYONE LeBron has had on his team. Mo Williams? 34 year old Antawn Jamison for half a season? Larry fucking Hughes is one of the 5 best players that LeBron has played with on the Cavs.
Lebron's 2010 supporting cast was not much worse than Duncan's 2003 supporting cast. It'd be almost impossible to have a player by player comparison, but as a whole it's almost equal.


IMO, the greatest feat a player can accomplish is winning MVP and finals MVP the same year. No one ever does it, but it's basically the best way to show you are able to carry a team on your back wire to wire. Lebron has all the tools to be able to accomplish that, but he went a route that makes it nearly impossible for him to ever do it, and I am disappointed. I also more pissed in general at how the NBA is designed so there can be 2-3 stacked ass teams every year while the other 27-28 teams have no chance.

[stretch]

I never said he was a good fit. I said he was a better player than 2003 Parker or Manu.

a decent talent who is a good fit >>> a good talent who is a shitty fit

thats why Lebron was able to get to the finals with guys like Gooden, Boobie, and Z... they fit well together (mainly in playoff style basketball), just not talented enough.

in the previous 2 years, he had more talent, but talents who didnt fit well (mainly in playoff style basketball).

[Veterinarian]

I like how for the next like five minutes everyone's going to give a shit about Cleveland or at least pretend they give a shit. When they never gave two shits about them before.

[Veterinarian]

lol pretending to care about Cleveland.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But yeah, LeBron should have taken the Cavs to the championship with a 34 year old aging hybrid post-perimeter player as his 2nd option. :lmao

Tim Duncan did it with a 20 year old 2nd year combo guard who couldn't shoot as his 2nd option.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

a decent talent who is a good fit >>> a good talent who is a shitty fit

thats why Lebron was able to get to the finals with guys like Gooden, Boobie, and Z... they fit well together (mainly in playoff style basketball), just not talented enough.

in the previous 2 years, he had more talent, but talents who didnt fit well (mainly in playoff style basketball).


Lebron left no time to make it fit well. Kevin Durant has made a commitment to OKC to make them a contender and let them groom young talent around him. Lebron forced Cleveland to go into short term win now mode making one panicky trade after another hoping to get Lebron the best team around him ASAP. I'm not gonna say it's solely Lebron's fault, but Lebron gets a fair share of the blame for the incomplete supporting cast around him.

[Cry Havoc]

Because you're embellishing how good Parker and Manu were in 2003.

Maybe Manu. Not Parker. He was second in scoring on the team, averaged around a steal per game, and knocked down over a trey per game that year. Still better than anyone LeBron has had around him.


Lebron's 2010 supporting cast was not much worse than Duncan's 2003 supporting cast. It'd be almost impossible to have a player by player comparison, but as a whole it's almost equal.


Oh, we can go ahead and do that. But it doesn't take much. Who were LeBron's 3rd and 4th leading scorers last year?

JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejao.

:lmao

:lmao

:lmao

THAT team would win a title?

Meanwhile, Duncan at least had Parker (better than Mo Williams, since Parker can do more than just hit an outside shot), SJax, and Malik Rose. With David Robinson still able to make a jumper here and there and provide a modest post presence.

Was the Spurs team in 2003 great? No. Just good enough to win the Championship. They were still better than the 2010 Cavs, even if you remove LeBron and Duncan from the equation.

[Cry Havoc]

Tim Duncan did it with a 20 year old 2nd year combo guard who couldn't shoot as his 2nd option.

Parker's numbers: 47% on the season from the field, 34% from three, and averaging over a three per game. Not to mention over 5 dimes per game.

Yeah, man, you're right. Point Guards who shoot 47% from the field just suck. :lol

[stretch]

Lebron left no time to make it fit well. Kevin Durant has made a commitment to OKC to make them a contender and let them groom young talent around him. Lebron forced Cleveland to go into short term win now mode making one panicky trade after another hoping to get Lebron the best team around him ASAP. I'm not gonna say it's solely Lebron's fault, but Lebron gets a fair share of the blame for the incomplete supporting cast around him.

Isn't Jamison like 34? Yeah, Lebron has all kinds of time to make that work, and win 6 rings with Jamison as his #2 so that he can possibly reach GOAT status as you all think he could have... :rolleyes

[Roddy Beaubois]

TD had plenty of help and a great supporting cast. But it was obvious Tim was the man on that team.

[Roddy Beaubois]

Cleveland couldnt land any FA last summer because everyone feared that they would be stuck on a Lebron-less Cav team after one year.

[Roddy Beaubois]

TD also didn't have anyone that could lead a team deep into the playoffs by themselves. (like Dwade obviously can)

[Cry Havoc]

Cleveland couldnt land any FA last summer because everyone feared that they would be stuck on a Lebron-less Cav team after one year.

7 years. That's around half of a player's career, at least the part that matters. (21-35). LeBron did come into the league early, so he's lucky to still have his best years ahead of him, but if the Cavs couldn't attract a player in 7 years, they blew it. In 7 years, Mo Williams was the best they could bring to the table.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Maybe Manu. Not Parker. He was second in scoring on the team, averaged around a steal per game, and knocked down over a trey per game that year. Still better than anyone LeBron has had around him.
2003 Parker and 2010 Mo Williams put up nearly identical stats. They both averaged a steal a game, they both were 2nd on their team in scoring, and they both averaged a little over 15 points and 5 assists with about the same efficiency. Neither one is noticeably better than the other.




Oh, we can go ahead and do that. But it doesn't take much. Who were LeBron's 3rd and 4th leading scorers last year?
Shaq and Atwan Jamison.



Meanwhile, Duncan at least had Parker (better than Mo Williams, since Parker can do more than just hit an outside shots, SJax, and Malik Rose.
If you're gonna criticize Mo Williams, what exactly could Stephen Jackson do on offense in 2003 other than hit outside shots? Back then he had little to no ball handling ability.


With David Robinson still able to make a jumper here and there and provide a modest post presence.
Shaq provided nothing less than what Robinson provided.

[IronMexican]

LMAO

YOU were the one saying even before pre-season that the Pats would go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and be the greatest team ever. Obviously you didn't believe there was a "competitive balance" at that time. :rolleyes

They did go 18-0.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Parker's numbers: 47% on the season from the field, 34% from three, and averaging over a three per game. Not to mention over 5 dimes per game.

Yeah, man, you're right. Point Guards who shoot 47% from the field just suck. :lol


Mo Williams numbers:

44.2% from the field (while taking a lot more 3's, so that's 2% less than Parker's 46.4% shooting), 43% 3 point shooting, 2.3 3's per game, and over 5 dimes per game.

Yup, 2003 Parker is SOOOOOO much better than 2010 Mo Williams.

[stretch]

They did go 18-0.

rofl 19-0

[IronMexican]

They did go 18-0.

:lmao:lmao8:lmao:lmao 18-1*

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Isn't Jamison like 34? Yeah, Lebron has all kinds of time to make that work, and win 6 rings with Jamison as his #2 so that he can possibly reach GOAT status as you all think he could have... :rolleyes


Michael Jordan gave Chicago time to find younger players like Pippen. Cleveland didn't have the luxury of being able to take a long term approach with a team built around a player who had always shown interest in going somewhere else from day one.

By no means am I saying the Cavs did a good job surrounding Lebron with a good cast, they made plenty of fuck ups that led to this, but Lebron didn't do them any favors with the lack of patience he had.

[JamStone]

Michael Jordan gave Chicago time to find younger players like Pippen. Cleveland didn't have the luxury of being able to take a long term approach with a team built around a player who had always shown interest in going somewhere else from day one.

By no means am I saying the Cavs did a good job surrounding Lebron with a good cast, they made plenty of fuck ups that led to this, but Lebron didn't do them any favors with the lack of patience he had.

The Cavs had LeBron for 7 seasons. He signed his extension three years ago. They had time to take a longterm approach. They just didn't make the best choices with trades, free agent acquisitions, and draft picks.

7 seasons is enough time to find at least one or two players who are good fits next to LeBron. 7 years is the same amount of seasons Jordan was with the Bulls when they won their first championship.

[stretch]

Michael Jordan gave Chicago time to find younger players like Pippen. Cleveland didn't have the luxury of being able to take a long term approach with a team built around a player who had always shown interest in going somewhere else from day one.

By no means am I saying the Cavs did a good job surrounding Lebron with a good cast, they made plenty of fuck ups that led to this, but Lebron didn't do them any favors with the lack of patience he had.

Pippen came as a rookie to begin Jordans 4th year.

Jamison came as an old man in the middle of Lebrons 7th year.

big difference.

bron had plenty of patience, and the Cavs didnt even seem to be doing anything that looked proactive, other than providing him with more glorified role players, none of which were capable #2 options.

[monosylab1k]

:lmao:lmao8:lmao:lmao 18-1*

:lmao NFL Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2, Note 2: "When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble."

[Cry Havoc]

2003 Parker and 2010 Mo Williams put up nearly identical stats. They both averaged a steal a game, they both were 2nd on their team in scoring, and they both averaged a little over 15 points and 5 assists with about the same efficiency. Neither one is noticeably better than the other.

Except for the fact that Parker has always been, at worst, a very good penetrating guard. Even in 2003 with his ball-handling issues, he was still good enough to get into the defense. Mo is a spot up shooter and little else.


Shaq and Atwan Jamison.

Shaq was 5th in scoring. Antawn was well shy of that because of the midseason trade.



If you're gonna criticize Mo Williams, what exactly could Stephen Jackson do on offense in 2003 other than hit outside shots? Back then he had little to no ball handling ability.

SJax was the 3rd option on that team. Mo was the 2nd. Huge difference. You can afford for your 3rd option to be a shooter. Your 2nd option needs to be able to terrorize a defense, or at least make them adjust.

Oh, and by the way, SJax actually knows how to play defense. So the Spurs 3rd option on the team was roughly as efficient as scoring as the Cavs #2 guy this year in the playoffs (where Mo disappeared), and played better D, as well as having more size, better rebounding, and more steals.


Shaq provided nothing less than what Robinson provided.

Except the fact that Shaq's about as fast now as an average man on crutches. Robinson wasn't exactly spry in 03, but Shaq is routinely a liability on defense now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The Cavs had LeBron for 7 seasons. He signed his extension three years ago. They had time to take a longterm approach. They just didn't make the best choices with trades, free agent acquisitions, and draft picks.

7 seasons is enough time to find at least one or two players who are good fits next to LeBron. 7 years is the same amount of seasons Jordan was with the Bulls when they won their first championship.


There were whispers about him considering a trade demand only 2 years into his NBA career. Like I said, the Cavs fucked up plenty (lol Luke Jackson), but it's not like they knew they'd be getting Lebron for 7 years from day 1. It was obvious after the Cavs missed the playoffs in 2005 that Lebron had already gotten impatient with the Cavs organization and wanted to be in win now mode. Because of that, they overpayed Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall that off season knowing Lebron might not sign an extension two years later if he didn't start seeing immediate results, and those two signings eventually led to them being in salary cap hell with no way of getting out.

Would they have taken a successful long term approach if Lebron let them? Who knows. I'm probably giving them too much benefit of the doubt given that they haven't shown any great ability to find talent. All I'm saying is that he didn't make it as easy for the Cavs to build around him as he could have. Kevin Durant has shown a willingness to stick it out with OKC, and as a result they haven't made any short sited moves and have had 3 other top 5 picks to give Durant help.

[Cry Havoc]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the Spurs pace of game was roughly 90 points, vs. the Cavs 100+. So Parker's 15 PPG are worth quite a bit more than Mo's, as are SJax's numbers.

[Cry Havoc]

and as a result they haven't made any short sited moves and have had 3 other top 5 picks to give Durant help.

And what does Durant have to show for that, exactly? His team hasn't even sniffed the Finals yet. Regardless. This is on the Cavs. They had the best player in the NBA for the last 2-3 seasons and everyone knew how good James was going to be, and they couldn't court any talent better than Mo Williams to join him.

[Veterinarian]

Raise your hand if you're pretending to care about the city of Cleveland.

http://writerinspired.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/raised_hands.jpg

[JamStone]

There were whispers about him considering a trade demand only 2 years into his NBA career. Like I said, the Cavs fucked up plenty (lol Luke Jackson), but it's not like they knew they'd be getting Lebron for 7 years from day 1. It was obvious after the Cavs missed the playoffs in 2005 that Lebron had already gotten impatient with the Cavs organization and wanted to be in win now mode. Because of that, they overpayed Larry Hughes and Donyell Marshall that off season knowing Lebron might not sign an extension two years later if he didn't start seeing immediate results, and those two signings eventually led to them being in salary cap hell with no way of getting out.

Would they have taken a successful long term approach if Lebron let them? Who knows. I'm probably giving them too much benefit of the doubt given that they haven't shown any great ability to find talent. All I'm saying is that he didn't make it as easy for the Cavs to build around him as he could have. Kevin Durant has shown a willingness to stick it out with OKC, and as a result they haven't made any short sited moves and have had 3 other top 5 picks to give Durant help.

Problem is the NBA landscape now. The current and recent forms of the NBA CBA and free agency allows this to be more of a possibility. Back in the 1980s, it wasn't that Jordan wouldn't have gotten frustrated and demanded a trade either, which he may have anyway, but it was that franchise type players leaving in free agency just didn't happen, certainly not at the frequency it does in today's NBA. Teams kept their franchise players back then. It's more to the state of the NBA landscape than it has to do with Michael Jordan being more loyal or more patient.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Except for the fact that Parker has always been, at worst, a very good penetrating guard. Even in 2003 with his ball-handling issues, he was still good enough to get into the defense. Mo is a spot up shooter and little else.
Pick a lane and stick with it. You kept talking about Parker's stats, and now you're all the sudden not using stats at all since you realize Mo Williams' stats were no worse. Now you're argument is that Parker is better because he was a good penetrating guard, while even admitting he had ball handling issues? Parker ran pick and rolls, he didn't have the ability to beat his own man off the dribble back then. He got into the paint running pick and rolls with the best big man in the NBA, no different than how Mo Williams got himself open shots playing off Lebron James.




Shaq was 5th in scoring. Antawn was well shy of that because of the midseason trade.
Shaq was their 3rd option when healthy, he was 5th in total points because of his injury. Entering the playoffs, the Cavs 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options were Mo Williams, Shaq, and Antwan Jamison.





SJax was the 3rd option on that team. Mo was the 2nd. Huge difference. You can afford for your 3rd option to be a shooter. Your 2nd option needs to be able to terrorize a defense, or at least make them adjust.
You're saying Tony Parker terrorized defenses in 2003? C'mon. Tony Parker was the same inconsistent liability of a 2nd option as Mo Williams was. They both benefited hugely from Duncan's/Lebron's presence on the court, neither one was a great individual player.


Oh, and by the way, SJax actually knows how to play defense. So the Spurs 3rd option on the team was roughly as efficient as scoring as the Cavs #2 guy this year in the playoffs (where Mo disappeared), and played better D, as well as having more size, better rebounding, and more steals.
You're right, S-Jax did play defense, largely because of the example Tim Duncan set for all the players on that team. Lebron James signed off on all of Cleveland's moves to surround him with sub par defensive players. When Stephen Jackson was available this year, Lebron could have easily gone to Danny Ferry and said trade Ilgauskas for him, and G-State woulda done it. Lebron instead prefered to have teammates like Delonte West and Mo Williams who would make Cleveland a better offensive team and hurt their D.




Except the fact that Shaq's about as fast now as an average man on crutches. Robinson wasn't exactly spry in 03, but Shaq is routinely a liability on defense now.
Agreed 2010 Shaq < 2003 D-Rob on D, but 2010 Shaq > 2003 D-Rob on O. Lebron had a say in what players would be brought in, he signed off on the Cavs moving further and further away from a defensive mind set with players like Shaq, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Oh, and I forgot to mention the Spurs pace of game was roughly 90 points, vs. the Cavs 100+. So Parker's 15 PPG are worth quite a bit more than Mo's, as are SJax's numbers.

2010 Cavs averaged 91.1 possessions per game. 2003 Spurs averaged 90 possessions per game. Minimal difference.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And what does Durant have to show for that, exactly? His team hasn't even sniffed the Finals yet.


Lets see, his team won 50 games in his 3rd year, just like Lebron's team in Lebron's 3rd year. Unlike Lebron's team though, his team didn't need to use its cap room to overpay mediocre talent. KD's team is loaded with young, promising players, and has cap room to still further improve.

[Cry Havoc]

Pick a lane and stick with it. You kept talking about Parker's stats, and now you're all the sudden not using stats at all since you realize Mo Williams' stats were no worse. Now you're argument is that Parker is better because he was a good penetrating guard, while even admitting he had ball handling issues? Parker ran pick and rolls, he didn't have the ability to beat his own man off the dribble back then. He got into the paint running pick and rolls with the best big man in the NBA, no different than how Mo Williams got himself open shots playing off Lebron James.

I followed it up by commenting that Mo scored 15 PPG on a team that scores in the ~103 range. Parker did his on a team that regularly didn't break 90.


Shaq was their 3rd option when healthy, he was 5th in total points because of his injury. Entering the playoffs, the Cavs 2nd, 3rd, and 4th options were Mo Williams, Shaq, and Antwan Jamison.

So your 2nd option is a limp noodle with no appreciable skills other than shooting in the playoffs, and your 3rd and 4th guys have an average age of 36 with about a million miles a piece on their knees?


You're saying Tony Parker terrorized defenses in 2003? C'mon. Tony Parker was the same inconsistent liability of a 2nd option as Mo Williams was. They both benefited hugely from Duncan's/Lebron's presence on the court, neither one was a great individual player.

Parker was more than a jump-shooter, is what I'm saying. And even if you make the argument that Parker and Mo are roughly equal, the rest of LeBron's team is horrible as you go down the line. Varejao would have rarely, if ever played on the 03 Spurs, and saw major minutes for this Cavs team.


You're right, S-Jax did play defense, largely because of the example Tim Duncan set for all the players on that team. Lebron James signed off on all of Cleveland's moves to surround him with sub par defensive players. When Stephen Jackson was available this year, Lebron could have easily gone to Danny Ferry and said trade Ilgauskas for him, and G-State woulda done it. Lebron instead prefered to have teammates like Delonte West and Mo Williams who would make Cleveland a better offensive team and hurt their D.

Agreed 2010 Shaq < 2003 D-Rob on D, but 2010 Shaq > 2003 D-Rob on O. Lebron had a say in what players would be brought in, he signed off on the Cavs moving further and further away from a defensive mind set with players like Shaq, Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison.

So now it's the responsibility of the player to go out and sign other players. Got it. I mean, why shouldn't a 22 year old player be able to design the perfect basketball team to win a title? If you're LeBron and the front office comes to you saying, "We can get Donyell Marshall, but if he doesn't sign we might get nothing", what do you do? It's LeBron's fault because he wanted his team to get better, and hoped the marginal improvements he was seeing would be enough over time?

The biggest acquisition the Cavs made in 7 years was to sign a 34 year old Antawn Jamison. That has absolutely nothing to do with LeBron, and he cannot be blamed for it. That is a failure of the Cavs organization as a whole.

[SpursFanFirst]

LMAO at all the bron/heat hate. you guys are ridiculous. hate on the way Bron went about doing his announcement. thats understandable. but hating on the fact that they want to make the most dominant team ever, is stupid as hell, and makes no sense.

:sleep Wake me when it happens, but I'm not expecting it any time in the LeBron era. I'm just not. He's a quitter who only thinks about how to advance his own desires. It has nothing to do with a team...and a team is needed to win championships.

[HarlemHeat37]

-LOL @ Dok's arguments about Lebron having to be patient..he never played with a top 20 player during his entire career, he was there since 2004..what else do you want?.."it was obvious he was impatient by 2005" LOL..according to whom?..link?..

There's only so much you can do for so long..

-Duncan's 2003 feat of winning a title with his 2nd option averaging less than 15 PPG has only been done twice in NBA history(Hakeem was the other)..those happened in weak years, obviously, since it would be impossible to do otherwise..either way, amazing feat, so it's unfair to compare it to these rare moments that guys like Jordan couldn't even do..

-Obviously the NFL has a lot more parity..it's a better league in every way..it doesn't have rigged trades either, and you can't change the entire league with 1 move..

-The fact that the NBA has 2 powerhouses doesn't really change how I view my team..it obviously doesn't change anything, die-hard fans will cheer either way..

[HarlemHeat37]

:sleep Wake me when it happens, but I'm not expecting it any time in the LeBron era. I'm just not. He's a quitter who only thinks about how to advance his own desires. It has nothing to do with a team...and a team is needed to win championships.

Kobe is a quitter and he has 5 titles..

[Zelophehad]

That Nets team was pretty awful.

[UrAphag]

Kobe wanted to be the main guy on a championship team, there is nothing wrong with that. There is nothing wrong with being a second banana either.

[HeatChamps]

Don't have to worry about that since my dick grew hard last night.

[DazedAndConfused]

Nobody is hating on Lebron for wanting to leave Cleveland. He's a free man and entitled to do whatever the fuck he wants to do. He owes no team, city, or owner anything.

IT WAS THE WAY HE WENT ABOUT DOING WHAT HE DID THAT PEOPLE ARE RIGHTFULLY UPSET ABOUT. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THIS THEN YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT.

[Veterinarian]

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2447147/2/istockphoto_2447147_raised_hand.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

Nobody is hating on Lebron for wanting to leave Cleveland. He's a free man and entitled to do whatever the fuck he wants to do. He owes no team, city, or owner anything.

IT WAS THE WAY HE WENT ABOUT DOING WHAT HE DID THAT PEOPLE ARE RIGHTFULLY UPSET ABOUT. IF YOU CAN'T SEE THIS THEN YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT.

The way he did it?..you mean the way he raised millions of $ for the Boys & Girls Club with The Decision?..people hate that?..

[Chr!s Childs]

People act like LeBron left them for another team...NO he CHOSE a team because thats what free agents do. Once your a free agent your not entitled to your former team.

[DazedAndConfused]

The way he did it?..you mean the way he raised millions of $ for the Boys & Girls Club with The Decision?..people hate that?..

You're not this stupid. Quit trolling MiamiHeat

[LnGrrrR]

LMAO at all the bron/heat hate. you guys are ridiculous. hate on the way Bron went about doing his announcement. thats understandable. but hating on the fact that they want to make the most dominant team ever, is stupid as hell, and makes no sense.

I'm hating on the way he did it; I'm hating on him for being a pussy and joining a team that already has an Alpha Dog.

[mystargtr34]

If the Spurs arent going to win (which looks likely), then i hope this team wins the next 5 championships, i really do, and LeBron goes down as the greatest ever. The amount of shit he is taking from everybody, fat ass fans on basketball forums who almost never pick up a basketball, owners, GM's, other players, journo's. The dude just wants to win.

Kobe was crying, kicking and screaming, he had basically given up on 'trying to do it on his own', yet people hold him up now as some example that LeBron should have stuck to :lol, i found that amazing. How is the world so fuckin stupid and shortsighted.

Fuck the rest of whining hypocritical NBA... if its not the Spurs, im rooting for LeBron and the Heat.

[DazedAndConfused]

Kobe wanted help. He was tired of playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He wanted a legit #2 to play alongside him and some good role players he could propel to a championship. He has always wanted to be the main man, the dominant player on the team. That's why he was adamant in ousting Shaq.

He would never have done what Lebron just did, which was to shy away from the responsibility of being the main man and go play with other established superstars somewhere else. Lebron took the easy way out from a competitive point of view, which is why he will never again be viewed in the same light as Jordan or Kobe.

Answer this: Would Kobe or MJ ever do what Lebron just did? Be honest.

[midnightpulp]

Kobe wanted help. He was tired of playing with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown. He wanted a legit #2 to play alongside him and some good role players he could propel to a championship. He has always wanted to be the main man, the dominant player on the team. That's why he was adamant in ousting Shaq.

He would never have done what Lebron just did, which was to shy away from the responsibility of being the main man and go play with other established superstars somewhere else. Lebron took the easy way out from a competitive point of view, which is why he will never again be viewed in the same light as Jordan or Kobe.

Answer this: Would Kobe or MJ ever do what Lebron just did? Be honest.

Try looking at it from Lebron's POV, which is somewhat similar to Kobe's in the Smush/Kwame era.

Lebron has shouldered the burden for 7 years without a consistent number 2 option to help relieve some of that pressure. Lebron dealt with his own Smush/Kwame situation for 5 years, even getting one of those teams to the Finals, before he finally had a team capable of legitimately contending. Your hero was only be able to deal with such for 2 years before he stamped his feet, went viral, and cried to Stephen A. Smith.

Lebron has never had the luxury of playing with someone who can cover up his 6-24 efforts. No Shaq, no Gasol. So when the opportunity to play with Wade and Bosh emerged, of course he's going to fuckin' take it.

[Giuseppe]

Fuck the rest of whining hypocritical NBA... if its not the Spurs, im rooting for LeBron and the Heat.

Fine, but, wait until you're eliminated before you throw your Spurs under the bus for the Heat.

[024]

kobe wanted to be traded so he could play with stars elsewhere. difference between kobe and lebron was that kobe was restricted by his contract while lebron could do whatever the hell he wanted as a FA.

[picc84]

Difference. The Cavs owner kept adding better pieces to the team every year, ones mostly approved and signed off on by James.

When Kobe made his trade demand, the Lakers hadn't added anyone over 3 years other than Kwame Brown and Vladimir Radmanovic. They had turned down offers from Baron Davis and Boozer to come play there for basically nothing. The difference between the efforts that the LA front office had shown and the Cleveland front office had shown were huge.

Thats why he wanted to be traded, because he felt like the management wasnt trying to get better. Even despite efforts from good players to help them.

Lebron is leaving a management that catered to him every whim 24/7, and leaving a team that got significantly better every year.

I'm not saying he's wrong for leaving. The circumstances surrounding Lebrons departure and Kobe's trade demand were both entirely justifiable. But if the Lakers had put a good team around Kobe and he'd failed, he would have taken it on himself and tried to get better. It was only when he thought they weren't trying to win that he wanted to leave. Cant say that about Lebron.

Hell, he backed off his trade demand basically soon as Derek Fisher joined the team.

[LnGrrrR]

The way he did it?..you mean the way he raised millions of $ for the Boys & Girls Club with The Decision?..people hate that?..

I'm pretty sure he could've just donated some of his millions, and not agonized an entire fanbase. That'd be one way to give millions to a worthy charity, and would also not make him a total dick.

[LnGrrrR]

If Lebron wanted decent pieces, he could've gone to Chicago. As is, Lebron is 1B to Wade's 1A.

[OC Lakerfan]

LOL@Mavs fans complaining about parity.

For years the Mavs had much higher payroll than the Lakers or Celtics. So did the Knicks for that matter.

[Veterinarian]

If Lebron wanted decent pieces, he could've gone to Chicago. As is, Lebron is 1B to Wade's 1A.

:deadhorse