Bulls/Knicks = Guts. Cavs = Loyalty. Heat = Gutlessness

[Findog]

LeBron isn't Leonard Little, OJ Simpson or Mark Chmura, and he has the right to go to any team he wants to play for. So with those two caveats out of the way...

1) Leaving the Cavs is ultimately a defensible decision, but you don't go on tv and publicly humiliate a sports town with its history of heartbreak. There are more important things in the world than sports, Cleveland is hurting more from its status as a rustbelt city with a declining industrial base, but this spectacle was needlessly cruel. LeBron deserves the hit to his rep for this.

2) It comes out that he kept the Cavs dangling in the wind when all along he had no intention of going back. If he had said up front that he still wanted to have his free-agent extravaganza but had eliminated the Cavs from consideration, Cleveland could have moved on with other plans instead of waiting on the FA market to shake out.

3) LeBron accepted the media hype of the "Chosen One" and the "Savior" and took his first max extension with the Cavs in 2007 with the team building around him as its foundation. You take the money, you let the team's marketing dept hype you up as the #1 option, you've made a commitment to build that franchise up to a champion. Like Durant has done with the ex-Sonics. Like Dirk has done with the Mavs. Like Duncan successfully did with the Spurs. Bron cut and ran when the going got tough

4) Bron signed off on all personnel moves they did, so he has no right to complain about the roster the Cavs surrounded him with. If he had been willing to commit longer than 3 years back in 07, the Cavs could've been more patient and gotten younger players that could grow into their roles over time, like the Bulls did with Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen. Instead they felt that they had to win a chip NOW with a veteran roster built on the fly to prevent him from leaving. What player wanted to sign with Cleveland not knowing if they were going to be stuck there after 2010 without LeBron? (I'll bet dollars to donuts part of the reason Amare to Cleveland didn't get done in February was because they couldn't get assurances that Stoudemire would sign an extension).

5) Why is Wade not getting shit for welcoming Bron and Bosh into the fold? Because he's been there. He's willed a team to a championship by putting it on his back. He has nothing to prove. He doesn't need the help, but he'll certainly take it. Bron is tacitly admitting he doesn't trust his own abilities to be the #1 guy if he has to join up with Wade on the Heat. For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

6) I'm stealing this from elsewhere, but his choices boiled down to the these: New York and Chicago meant guts (following in Jordan's footsteps in Chicago, making basketball relevant again in NY). Cleveland meant loyalty. Miami means gutlessness. The Heat have a 5-6 year window and I'd be really surprised if they don't win at least 2-3 titles, if not more, during that span. But what does that really prove? He passed up a chance at greatness by basically admitting that he needs another #1 option, a #2 option and a HOF coach (Riley will edge out Spoelstra sooner or later) to get across the finish line. We'll never know what LeBron can do in his prime without the aid of a super team, and that's a disappointment for NBA fans as a whole.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:tu

[TDMVPDPOY]

how come u didnt mention kahn the wanker who did the heat a favor

umm how about the hawks who basically failed keepin JJ...with or without JJ hawks aint winnin shit against the trio in there conference

now the teams with cap, are they going to overspend on the scrubs FA

[Findog]

how come u didnt mention kahn the wanker who did the heat a favor



He also did his own damn team a favor by taking on the #2 pick from the 2008 draft for NOTHING. High Reward, No Risk with Beasley.

[monosylab1k]

LeBron isn't Leonard Little, OJ Simpson or Mark Chmura, and he has the right to go to any team he wants to play for. So with those two caveats out of the way...

1) Leaving the Cavs is ultimately a defensible decision, but you don't go on tv and publicly humiliate a sports town with its history of heartbreak. There are more important things in the world than sports, Cleveland is hurting more from its status as a rustbelt city with a declining industrial base, but this spectacle was needlessly cruel. LeBron deserves the hit to his rep for this.

2) It comes out that he kept the Cavs dangling in the wind when all along he had no intention of going back. If he had said up front that he still wanted to have his free-agent extravaganza but had eliminated the Cavs from consideration, Cleveland could have moved on with other plans instead of waiting on the FA market to shake out.

3) LeBron accepted the media hype of the "Chosen One" and the "Savior" and took his first max extension with the Cavs in 2007 with the team building around him as its foundation. You take the money, you let the team's marketing dept hype you up as the #1 option, you've made a commitment to build that franchise up to a champion. Like Durant has done with the ex-Sonics. Like Dirk has done with the Mavs. Like Duncan successfully did with the Spurs. Bron cut and ran when the going got tough

4) Bron signed off on all personnel moves they did, so he has no right to complain about the roster the Cavs surrounded him with. If he had been willing to commit longer than 3 years back in 07, the Cavs could've been more patient and gotten younger players that could grow into their roles over time, like the Bulls did with Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen. Instead they felt that they had to win a chip NOW with a veteran roster built on the fly to prevent him from leaving. What player wanted to sign with Cleveland not knowing if they were going to be stuck there after 2010 without LeBron? (I'll bet dollars to donuts part of the reason Amare to Cleveland didn't get done in February was because they couldn't get assurances that Stoudemire would sign an extension).

5) Why is Wade not getting shit for welcoming Bron and Bosh into the fold? Because he's been there. He's willed a team to a championship by putting it on his back. He has nothing to prove. He doesn't need the help, but he'll certainly take it. Bron is tacitly admitting he doesn't trust his own abilities to be the #1 guy if he has to join up with Wade on the Heat. For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

6) I'm stealing this from elsewhere, but his choices boiled down to the these: New York and Chicago meant guts (following in Jordan's footsteps in Chicago, making basketball relevant again in NY). Cleveland meant loyalty. Miami means gutlessness. The Heat have a 5-6 year window and I'd be really surprised if they don't win at least 2-3 titles, if not more, during that span. But what does that really prove? He passed up a chance at greatness by basically admitting that he needs another #1 option, a #2 option and a HOF coach (Riley will edge out Spoelstra sooner or later) to get across the finish line. We'll never know what LeBron can do in his prime without the aid of a super team, and that's a disappointment for NBA fans as a whole.

:tu more well written and far less self-serving and pretentious than that turd Cry Havoc tried to get us all to read.

[dallaskd]

good post findog. agreed.

[TheMACHINE]

well said Findog

[BadOdor]

But he did it for THE KIDS!!!!

[ffadicted]

But he did it for THE KIDS!!!!

Fucking Legend! :cry

[Cry Havoc]

:tu more well written and far less self-serving and pretentious than that turd Cry Havoc tried to get us all to read.


LeBron isn't Leonard Little, OJ Simpson or Mark Chmura, and he has the right to go to any team he wants to play for. So with those two caveats out of the way...

1) Leaving the Cavs is ultimately a defensible decision, but you don't go on tv and publicly humiliate a sports town with its history of heartbreak. There are more important things in the world than sports, Cleveland is hurting more from its status as a rustbelt city with a declining industrial base, but this spectacle was needlessly cruel. LeBron deserves the hit to his rep for this.

2) It comes out that he kept the Cavs dangling in the wind when all along he had no intention of going back. If he had said up front that he still wanted to have his free-agent extravaganza but had eliminated the Cavs from consideration, Cleveland could have moved on with other plans instead of waiting on the FA market to shake out.

3) LeBron accepted the media hype of the "Chosen One" and the "Savior" and took his first max extension with the Cavs in 2007 with the team building around him as its foundation. You take the money, you let the team's marketing dept hype you up as the #1 option, you've made a commitment to build that franchise up to a champion. Like Durant has done with the ex-Sonics. Like Dirk has done with the Mavs. Like Duncan successfully did with the Spurs. Bron cut and ran when the going got tough

4) Bron signed off on all personnel moves they did, so he has no right to complain about the roster the Cavs surrounded him with. If he had been willing to commit longer than 3 years back in 07, the Cavs could've been more patient and gotten younger players that could grow into their roles over time, like the Bulls did with Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen. Instead they felt that they had to win a chip NOW with a veteran roster built on the fly to prevent him from leaving. What player wanted to sign with Cleveland not knowing if they were going to be stuck there after 2010 without LeBron? (I'll bet dollars to donuts part of the reason Amare to Cleveland didn't get done in February was because they couldn't get assurances that Stoudemire would sign an extension).

5) Why is Wade not getting shit for welcoming Bron and Bosh into the fold? Because he's been there. He's willed a team to a championship by putting it on his back. He has nothing to prove. He doesn't need the help, but he'll certainly take it. Bron is tacitly admitting he doesn't trust his own abilities to be the #1 guy if he has to join up with Wade on the Heat. For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

6) I'm stealing this from elsewhere, but his choices boiled down to the these: New York and Chicago meant guts (following in Jordan's footsteps in Chicago, making basketball relevant again in NY). Cleveland meant loyalty. Miami means gutlessness. The Heat have a 5-6 year window and I'd be really surprised if they don't win at least 2-3 titles, if not more, during that span. But what does that really prove? He passed up a chance at greatness by basically admitting that he needs another #1 option, a #2 option and a HOF coach (Riley will edge out Spoelstra sooner or later) to get across the finish line. We'll never know what LeBron can do in his prime without the aid of a super team, and that's a disappointment for NBA fans as a whole.

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

:lol at angry Mavs fans. "We don't get a superteam so we're pissy!" :lol

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk.

[TheMACHINE]

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

:lol at angry Mavs fans. "We don't get a superteam so we're pissy!" :lol

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk.

props to Dirk..sure is trying his hardest. :toast

[picc84]

But he did it for THE KIDS!!!!

you know Bron love the kids, aint that right Harlem? :lol

[monosylab1k]

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?

:lol at angry Mavs fans. "We don't get a superteam so we're pissy!" :lol

If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk.

someone's butthurt I didn't like his long winded wank session.

[Veterinarian]

The way Lebron did this is almost worth it for all the butthurtedness it caused.

[Findog]

So how do you guys feel about Dirk's career, never winning a ring? Is that awesome for him? Does it feel great to know he stuck with a team that never put a scorer above the level of Josh Howard alongside him?


Garnett stuck with the Wolves until the tail end of his prime when it was obvious they couldn't realistically get him the supporting cast he needed. Dirk signed his extension at 31 years old before the creation of the Super Team down in Miami. There was...hope.

Also, say what you will about Cuban's antics and shtick, some of his questionable roster moves, but what can never be disputed or doubted is the fact that he has moved heaven and earth to keep a 50+win team on the floor every year and provide a quality product for his fans. The stated goal of the organization is to win a championship, and before you start in, yes, going out in the first or second round every year is a bitter disappointment. But the point is that the Mavs try every SINGLE year. Same with the Spurs. I hate the Spurs, want them to fail, but have nothing but major RESPECT for that organization because they try every single year and don't jip their fans by putting a shitty product out on the court.

Miami and New York essentially tanked the last three years, and Miami was amply rewarded for treating their fans to absolute dogshit the past three years. Lesson learned is that creating cap space for the horizon is more important than trying on a year to year basis.



If Bron was heading your way you'd be talking about how great and intelligent he is for wanting to team up with Dirk

As a Mavs fan, I'm not going to turn down Bron on my team. Just like you can't begrudge Heat fans, if they existed before yesterday, for the same. But as an NBA fan, I wanted him to stay with the Cavs. I don't think he was at the same point in his career like KG was in 2007 where he could legitimately throw up his hands and say "I was loyal and I tried. It's just not going to happen here."

[MiamiHeat]

all the butthurt will be silenced as the Beach Boyz are winning titles :)

Dirk will retire ringless, but that's how it should be according to mav fans.

[MiamiHeat]

Miami and New York essentially tanked the last three years, and Miami was amply rewarded for treating their fans to absolute dogshit the past three years. Lesson learned is that creating cap space for the horizon is more important than trying on a year to year basis.


you are copy pasting from previous posters

i read that somewhere already :lmao:lmao


i will say what i said before

Miami was a #5 seed last year.

[Findog]

you are copy pasting from previous posters

No I'm not. Find the post where I did or admit you're making shit up. I've made the same point in previous threads.

Miami was a 5 seed in a top-heavy East last year. They'd have been a lottery team in the West. There was no pretense of doing anything remotely related to trying the past three years. It was all about creating cap space for this summer. That was the master plan, and it worked. Just don't sell us on the idea that the Heat were trying to do anything related to providing a quality product for their fans in the interim with the garbage they surrounded Wade with.

[Basketballgirl25]

does anyone know any status on the contract with the Heat? Will he have a opt-out after 3 years? I heard that mentioned somewhere, but wasn't sure so was just wondering if it was true. I hope not and he will just stick with the heat and lose

[JamStone]

Good read, really good points.

I've said this in a few other posts, but I think there's a flip side to the criticism. People often criticize athletes for only being in it for the money, chasing the money, and chasing superstardom. LeBron chose to go to another superstar's team, which carried plenty of risks to his own individual legend. People can say he took an easy way out to win a championship or championships, but he's also taking a hit to his own legend. I think that's putting his ego to the side and being more concerned with winning and championships. While I understand the criticisms you've outlined, I also think there is more than one way of looking at it.

Also, as to the criticisms of signing off on Cavaliers' personnel decisions and accepting the media hype of being the "Chosen One," it can't be overstated that those are two way street relationships. LeBron wanted to be consulted with Cavs decisions, but the Cavaliers had no obligation to do that with LeBron. After reading Dan Gilbert's tirade letter, it became apparently clear that Gilbert and the Cavs helped not only enable this but fostered LeBron's ego and self entitlement. Gilbert allowed LeBron's "team" and family to get the extra perks, ride on the team plane, even probably employed some of them with the Cavs. ESPN and Nike and NBA fans also fostered and enabled LeBron to be "the King." If he wasn't marketable, if Nike and ESPN didn't get on their knees to service him for the last 7 years, then there would be no need for LeBron to "accept" the hype. If it was any other athlete, any other person, they take that hype too. Was he supposed to turn down the hype? Shy away from it?


LeBron pussied out if you look at it one way. He also made a decision that was heavily based on winning, and not just winning a championship, but winning multiple championships for several years. He also made a decision that he felt would make him most happy. I'm personally not going to hate him on it. I understand the criticisms he's taking, but after considering everything, I think it's cool he was willing to take the hit on his legacy to play with two close friends that could possibly mean a championship dynasty.

[Findog]

Good read, really good points.

I've said this in a few other posts, but I think there's a flip side to the criticism. People often criticize athletes for only being in it for the money, chasing the money, and chasing superstardom. LeBron chose to go to another superstar's team, which carried plenty of risks to his own individual legend. People can say he took an easy way out to win a championship or championships, but he's also taking a hit to his own legend. I think that's putting his ego to the side and being more concerned with winning and championships. While I understand the criticisms you've outlined, I also think there is more than one way of looking at it.

Also, as to the criticisms of signing off on Cavaliers' personnel decisions and accepting the media hype of being the "Chosen One," it can't be overstated that those are two way street relationships. LeBron wanted to be consulted with Cavs decisions, but the Cavaliers had no obligation to do that with LeBron. After reading Dan Gilbert's tirade letter, it became apparently clear that Gilbert and the Cavs helped not only enable this but fostered LeBron's ego and self entitlement. Gilbert allowed LeBron's "team" and family to get the extra perks, ride on the team plane, even probably employed some of them with the Cavs. ESPN and Nike and NBA fans also fostered and enabled LeBron to be "the King." If he wasn't marketable, if Nike and ESPN didn't get on their knees to service him for the last 7 years, then there would be no need for LeBron to "accept" the hype. If it was any other athlete, any other person, they take that hype too. Was he supposed to turn down the hype? Shy away from it?


LeBron pussied out if you look at it one way. He also made a decision that was heavily based on winning, and not just winning a championship, but winning multiple championships for several years. He also made a decision that he felt would make him most happy. I'm personally not going to hate him on it. I understand the criticisms he's taking, but after considering everything, I think it's cool he was willing to take the hit on his legacy to play with two close friends that could possibly mean a championship dynasty.

I am disappointed that LeBron has chosen the Shaquille O'Neal route (basketball mercenary/independent contractor) over the Jordan/Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem route. His right and decision of course, but I think Shaq is a major career underachiever (3 chips as a #1 guy, 1 as a #2 guy is way underachieving for his talent), and part of that is his mercenary mentality, his willingness to cut and run when things don't go his way, etc. I'm not saying we're going to look back at LeBron in the same way because his career hasn't entirely played out yet, but I thought LeBron was better than that.

[lefty]

LOL butthurt Mavs fan

[Findog]

LOL butthurt Mavs fan


You come up with new and inventive ways to suck. :toast

[stretch]

this thread = :cry :cry :cry the heat are going to dominate everyone now and I'm too asshurt over the fact that 3 dominant players in their prime would take less money to join forces and make a great team, so instead I'll just bash Lebron over pointless bullshit instead of facing the facts and watching how the season pans out :cry :cry :cry

[Fpoonsie]

Good read, and agree w/ all the points. I can't blame him for taking this route, but I'm certainly disappointed.


For a guy who grew up in the greater Cleveland area as a Cowboys, Yankees and Bulls fan, this is the ultimate frontrunner move.

This part especially stands out. For a city that tried its damndest to promote "loyalty" as a motivating factor for 'Bron to stick around, you'd think they'd eventually realize SOMEthing's amiss by the many different hats (both figuratively and literally) he wore.

[JamStone]

I am disappointed that LeBron has chosen the Shaquille O'Neal route (basketball mercenary/independent contractor) over the Jordan/Kobe/Duncan/Hakeem route. His right and decision of course, but I think Shaq is a major career underachiever (3 chips as a #1 guy, 1 as a #2 guy is way underachieving for his talent), and part of that is his mercenary mentality, his willingness to cut and run when things don't go his way, etc. I'm not saying we're going to look back at LeBron in the same way because his career hasn't entirely played out yet, but I thought LeBron was better than that.

I agree in a way.

The criticisms just change whatever decision he would have made. Stay in Cleveland and while he may be loyal, he doesn't care about winning and he just wanted the maximum amount of guaranteed dollars. Go to New York or New Jersey, and he's more concerned with his brand, living in the New York spotlight, and becoming a billionaire than he is about winning championships.

I guess if he chose Chicago, he might have taken the least amount of heat because he actually takes on the legend of Michael Jordan and he doesn't go there for necessarily fame or money. But he still catches similar if not the same heat from Dan Gilbert and Cleveland.

I guess my point is that it didn't really matter where he went. There were going to be plenty of people ready to crucify him no matter what, for disloyalty or selfishness or whatever. He made a choice based on what he felt was the best situation to win and win for a long time. I guess that's the main thing I look at.

And I don't know about the Shaq comparison. Shaq's reputation plays out more after Miami, then Phoenix. If you just look at leaving Orlando for the Lakers, I probably wouldn't have considered him at that time how you paint him right now.

[monosylab1k]

this thread = :cry :cry :cry the heat are going to dominate everyone now and I'm too asshurt over the fact that 3 dominant players in their prime would take less money to join forces and make a great team, so instead I'll just bash Lebron over pointless bullshit instead of facing the facts and watching how the season pans out :cry :cry :cry

whatever, we all get that you're in line to give LeBron a slurping. Fine.

Purely as a Mavs fan, this move doesn't upset you? That Cuban/Dirk can work their ass off for a decade to put a winning product out there on the court and do everything in their power to win a title, only to see a weak team with a fairweather fanbase win the free agent lottery like this? They can trade away basically all but one of their assets, do nothing to develop their team, and then suddenly become a dynasty out of pure bullshit luck.

[Kevin Durant 35]

LOL butthurt Mavs fan

[Findog]

I agree in a way.

The criticisms just change whatever decision he would have made. Stay in Cleveland and while he may be loyal, he doesn't care about winning and he just wanted the maximum amount of guaranteed dollars. Go to New York or New Jersey, and he's more concerned with his brand, living in the New York spotlight, and becoming a billionaire than he is about winning championships.

I guess if he chose Chicago, he might have taken the least amount of heat because he actually takes on the legend of Michael Jordan and he doesn't go there for necessarily fame or money. But he still catches similar if not the same heat from Dan Gilbert and Cleveland.

I guess my point is that it didn't really matter where he went. There were going to be plenty of people ready to crucify him no matter what, for disloyalty or selfishness or whatever. He made a choice based on what he felt was the best situation to win and win for a long time. I guess that's the main thing I look at.

And I don't know about the Shaq comparison. Shaq's reputation plays out more after Miami, then Phoenix. If you just look at leaving Orlando for the Lakers, I probably wouldn't have considered him at that time how you paint him right now.

I wouldn't have criticized him for resigning with Cleveland. If he didn't want to be stuck there till he 32, he could've signed a three-year extension that would've taken him to 28. I understand not wanting to be stuck there and potentially duplicating KG's career arc, but I wouldn't have blamed him at all or said he "wasn't about winning" if stayed with the Cavs. We're not talking about some 43-39 team that had trouble making the playoffs. The Cavs lost to the conference champ the last two years. They were kinda like Dirk and the Mavs: they gave him a good, but not great, supporting cast.

[Cry Havoc]

Garnett stuck with the Wolves until the tail end of his prime when it was obvious they couldn't realistically get him the supporting cast he needed. Dirk signed his extension at 31 years old before the creation of the Super Team down in Miami. There was...hope.

Do you know how exceedingly rare that is? Do you know how infrequently the pieces come together for an aging player already in his 30s to go a team with two other legitimate superstars to contend for a title?

I'll put it to you this way... even WITH Ray Allen and Paul Pierce... the Celtics probably don't win a title unless Rondo begins playing like a very solid PG... averaging 6.5 assists+ throughout the playoffs.

Before Allen went to Boston, the chances for KG to grab a title were slim to none. Even WITH the acquisition of all the talent that Boston has, Garnett is probably going to finish his career with a single ring. Maybe two by completely riding someone else's team as he ages. Do you think LeBron could win a single title in Cleveland and not be criticized for it? One championship is simply not enough for a player of his caliber. He wants multiple titles, and probably wouldn't settle for less than 3-4 at this point in his career.

Look at Dirk. He's probably never going to come close to a ring again. There is just too much consolidated talent around the league now, even though the Mavs have one of the best rosters (on paper) in the NBA. His window was open for maybe three years and now seems to have slammed shut. Say what you want about him, and props for him being so loyal to the Mavs, but wouldn't you just kill to see a serious scoring threat alongside Dirk in a Mavs jersey? And doesn't some small part of you, as a fan of Dirk personally, want to see him get a ring, even if it's not in Dallas?

KG got lucky. Pure and simple. He happened to fall into the right situation with the right organization that could make the move to win a title. What moves do you see Cleveland making that's going to put them over the top before decision day? Should he wait another 7 years and then maybe only get someone marginally better than Mo Williams on his team?


Also, say what you will about Cuban's antics and shtick, some of his questionable roster moves, but what can never be disputed or doubted is the fact that he has moved heaven and earth to keep a 50+win team on the floor every year and provide a quality product for his fans. The stated goal of the organization is to win a championship, and before you start in, yes, going out in the first or second round every year is a bitter disappointment. But the point is that the Mavs try every SINGLE year. Same with the Spurs. I hate the Spurs, want them to fail, but have nothing but major RESPECT for that organization because they try every single year and don't jip their fans by putting a shitty product out on the court.

The Mavs also got Jason Kidd, Caron Butler, Josh Howard. They've made moves that have given them championship potential. I give them all the props in the world for that, but the only reason the Cavs ever sniffed the ECF was because of LeBron, to say nothing of the Finals. The Spurs showed just how badly his supporting cast sucked in 07, and it was ugly.


Miami and New York essentially tanked the last three years, and Miami was amply rewarded for treating their fans to absolute dogshit the past three years. Lesson learned is that creating cap space for the horizon is more important than trying on a year to year basis.

There's also an adage that says patience is a virtue. Humping every player's leg in a mad dash to win the free agency battle every year is simply not the way to get it done. It burned the Spurs, it burned the Suns in the past, and it burned the Mavs. I mean, come on, it's not like teams didn't know ahead of time that this was going to be the largest free agent offseason in the history of the NBA.


As a Mavs fan, I'm not going to turn down Bron on my team. Just like you can't begrudge Heat fans, if they existed before yesterday, for the same. But as an NBA fan, I wanted him to stay with the Cavs. I don't think he was at the same point in his career like KG was in 2007 where he could legitimately throw up his hands and say "I was loyal and I tried. It's just not going to happen here."

I wanted him to stay with Cleveland as well. I'd love to see that city win a title. But they weren't putting the pieces together. If you hire a guy to build a house for you, and give him a specific amount of time to do it, and then you walk in halfway through that time and see that he doesn't even have the foundation complete or the support struts in place, you can either trust that he's going to get it done late, or find a new architect. I don't see how you could blame someone for doing either in the situation. The first could be construed as naive or trusting, and the second could be thought of as shrewd or overly demanding.

Imagine what people would say about LeBron in 10 years if he stayed with Cleveland and they never put a team together better than what they have right now. The 20/20 hindsight about not going to Miami now would be absolutely implacable. He would be a laughingstock, or at the very least, pitied.

[JamStone]

whatever, we all get that you're in line to give LeBron a slurping. Fine.

Purely as a Mavs fan, this move doesn't upset you? That Cuban/Dirk can work their ass off for a decade to put a winning product out there on the court and do everything in their power to win a title, only to see a weak team with a fairweather fanbase win the free agent lottery like this? They can trade away basically all but one of their assets, do nothing to develop their team, and then suddenly become a dynasty out of pure bullshit luck.

I think this is an overlooked thing in this whole LeBronapalooza.

Miami as a sports city and fanbase is one of the worst bandwagon, fairweather fanbase in all of sports. They don't care about sports. They care about the beach and fat latin asses. You ever see highlights of a Marlins baseball game when someone hits a homerun and there's literally 20,000 empty seats in the bleachers? A lot of people hate this move for a number of reasons. I don't think it's been said enough that Miami doesn't really deserve something like this. Even New York, a city full of hateful and ignorant sports fans, deserve this more than Miami. At least they care. Miami fans will now be coming out of the woodwork, thousands of Heat jerseys getting sold. Teams like Sacramento or Portland have fanbases way more loyal and way more deserving of a gift like this.

[stretch]

:cry :cry :cry im mad because another team is going to be better than mine, so im gonna insult you because i have no other way of explaining :cry

:cry




Purely as a Mavs fan, this move doesn't upset you? That Cuban/Dirk can work their ass off for a decade to put a winning product out there on the court and do everything in their power to win a title, only to see a weak team with a fairweather fanbase win the free agent lottery like this? They can trade away basically all but one of their assets, do nothing to develop their team, and then suddenly become a dynasty out of pure bullshit luck.

brah, it happens. just like Chicago got lucky to draft Michael Jordan, and prevent a shitload of great players and organizations who spend time putting together good teams, hours trying to improve their game and be the best they can be, only to get cockblocked by Jordan. or all the teams in the 80's that couldnt get past LA or Boston, because they were so stacked?

as a Mavs fan, this shouldn't bother you nearly as much as it is. because this was a legit signing. its not like the finals where Stern and the refs did all they could to prevent the Mavs from winning. this was completely legit, completely fair. I have no problem with this whatsoever.

if it were the Mavs winning this FA lottery, you wouldn't be complaining like a girl over it all. you would be happy as shit. so just because someone else gets fortunate and won, that doesnt make it wrong.

[Cry Havoc]

I think this is an overlooked thing in this whole LeBronapalooza.

Miami as a sports city and fanbase is one of the worst bandwagon, fairweather fanbase in all of sports. They don't care about sports. They care about the beach and fat latin asses. You ever see highlights of a Marlins baseball game when someone hits a homerun and there's literally 20,000 empty seats in the bleachers? A lot of people hate this move for a number of reasons. I don't think it's been said enough that Miami doesn't really deserve something like this. Even New York, a city full of hateful and ignorant sports fans, deserve this more than Miami. At least they care. Miami fans will now be coming out of the woodwork, thousands of Heat jerseys getting sold. Teams like Sacramento or Portland have fanbases way more loyal and way more deserving of a gift like this.

Ah, the sad reality of small market vs. large market. Apparently there's no replacement for glitz, glamour, and sand. :depressed

[stretch]

and for the record, yes it is frustrating that this happened, but at the same time, i'm not going to just hate on the team and the players over it, for no reason, and find ways to discredit them, just because they look like they are going to dominate for the next several years. just gotta hope that the Mavs find their own stroke of luck, have a good year, and maybe find a way to win it all. theres nothing else to do. im not going to waste my time whining and discrediting Bron and everyone like you guys are.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Also, say what you will about Cuban's antics and shtick, some of his questionable roster moves, but what can never be disputed or doubted is the fact that he has moved heaven and earth to keep a 50+win team on the floor every year and provide a quality product for his fans. The stated goal of the organization is to win a championship, and before you start in, yes, going out in the first or second round every year is a bitter disappointment. But the point is that the Mavs try every SINGLE year. Same with the Spurs. I hate the Spurs, want them to fail, but have nothing but major RESPECT for that organization because they try every single year and don't jip their fans by putting a shitty product out on the court.


Well, there are two sides to this. Cuban is the exception, he has lost money every year keeping a quality product intact. In that instance, yeah, feel sorry for Cuban because he really has poured everything he could into making Dallas as good as possible.

In other cases though, I don't feel an ounce of pity for owners who keep a 50 win "quality product" on the court every year and stay content with selling tickets and losing in the 1st or 2nd round of the playoffs. The owners who are willing to endure 2-3 (and risk even more) years of shit ticket sales and a shitty product while spending on a capable front office and coaching staff in order to try and make the team a contender again are more dedicated than owners who are willing to overpay a few players to maintain a 50 win product that sells tickets and can't contend.

[Findog]

I think this is an overlooked thing in this whole LeBronapalooza.

Miami as a sports city and fanbase is one of the worst bandwagon, fairweather fanbase in all of sports. They don't care about sports. They care about the beach and fat latin asses. You ever see highlights of a Marlins baseball game when someone hits a homerun and there's literally 20,000 empty seats in the bleachers? A lot of people hate this move for a number of reasons. I don't think it's been said enough that Miami doesn't really deserve something like this. Even New York, a city full of hateful and ignorant sports fans, deserve this more than Miami. At least they care. Miami fans will now be coming out of the woodwork, thousands of Heat jerseys getting sold. Teams like Sacramento or Portland have fanbases way more loyal and way more deserving of a gift like this.

What's funny about Miami is that nobody there gives a shit about basketball, hockey or baseball, and in the last 13 years, they've nabbed titles in all three of those sports. Meanwhile, the only thing that city is passionate about, football, of both the college and pro variety, they've had quite the drought. Dolphins haven't won since the mid-seventies, and it's been at least the early to mid-nineties since the Hurricanes won, right?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

it's been at least the early to mid-nineties since the Hurricanes won, right?


Na, the 2001 'Canes were IMO the best college football team of all time.

[Findog]

Na, the 2001 'Canes were IMO the best college football team of all time.


Shows how close I pay attention to college football. :lol

[Cry Havoc]

What's funny about Miami is that nobody there gives a shit about basketball, hockey or baseball, and in the last 13 years, they've nabbed titles in all three of those sports. Meanwhile, the only thing that city is passionate about, football, of both the college and pro variety, they've had quite the drought. Dolphins haven't won since the mid-seventies, and it's been at least the early to mid-nineties since the Hurricanes won, right?

Rabid, demanding fanbases bring in money, but they're also a curse. Look at the Cubs. :depressed

[Findog]

Do you know how exceedingly rare that is? Do you know how infrequently the pieces come together for an aging player already in his 30s to go a team with two other legitimate superstars to contend for a title?

I'll put it to you this way... even WITH Ray Allen and Paul Pierce... the Celtics probably don't win a title unless Rondo begins playing like a very solid PG... averaging 6.5 assists+ throughout the playoffs.

My point was that Garnett didn't bail on the Wolves or ask out until it was absolutely clear that Minny wasn't gonna surround him with what he needed to win a chip. The fact that there wasn't an iron-clad guarantee that Boston was going to win it all is peripheral to that point. In LeBron's shoes, I wouldn't have bailed at 25 with a team that had won 60+ games and lost to the eventual Finals runner-up the last two seasons. If you look at the Cavs and LeBron, the only thing he was lacking was his #2 option, his Pau Gasol, and if he had been willing to commit to the Cavs long-term, it would've been easier to facilitate that acquisition.



Do you think LeBron could win a single title in Cleveland and not be criticized for it? One championship is simply not enough for a player of his caliber. He wants multiple titles, and probably wouldn't settle for less than 3-4 at this point in his career.

It cheapens the impact of those multiple titles if he has to be on a Super Team to do it.


but wouldn't you just kill to see a serious scoring threat alongside Dirk in a Mavs jersey? And doesn't some small part of you, as a fan of Dirk personally, want to see him get a ring, even if it's not in Dallas?

Yes to the first question, and I hope the Mavs keep trying to find that player. To the second question, I don't really care. If he wants to leave at some point to get a ring, I would wish him well and root for him when he doesn't play the Mavs, but he's gotten paid millions to play a game for a living. I don't think his life or mine will be incomplete if he retires ringless.



KG got lucky. Pure and simple

Not really. He had the ability to opt out of his contract in 2008 and the Wolves traded him partly to salvage eventually losing him, and partly to give him a better situation as payment for his loyalty to the franchise.


What moves do you see Cleveland making that's going to put them over the top before decision day? Should he wait another 7 years and then maybe only get someone marginally better than Mo Williams on his team?

If I had been LeBron, I would've signed a six-year deal back in 2007 that would've kept me a Cav until 2013 and the age of 28. Guys would've been more willing to come to Cleveland knowing LeBron was gonna be there for quite a while, and if it didn't work out at the age of 28 in 2013, then he could still leave with his prime intact.


There's also an adage that says patience is a virtue. Humping every player's leg in a mad dash to win the free agency battle every year is simply not the way to get it done. It burned the Spurs, it burned the Suns in the past, and it burned the Mavs. I mean, come on, it's not like teams didn't know ahead of time that this was going to be the largest free agent offseason in the history of the NBA.

The flip side to that is that, like you said, winning a title, is exceedingly rare. It's hard to resist the temptation of tinkering with your roster and "going for it" when you're winning 50+ games a year. People bag on the Mavs all the time because they've been a first-round exit for some time now, but with their foundation and core, they are a LOT closer to the top than the bottom, and it doesn't take much to alter their fortunes. If Cuban had decided to completely blow it up in 2008, he would've been roundly criticized for that decision and rightly so.




Imagine what people would say about LeBron in 10 years if he stayed with Cleveland and they never put a team together better than what they have right now.


LeBron would've eventually left Cleveland like KG did if he got to the tail end of his prime without a ring. Number of rings is not always the best way of judging whether this player is better than that player, etc.

[JoeTait75]

Ah, the sad reality of small market vs. large market. Apparently there's no replacement for glitz, glamour, and sand. :depressed

Thing is, Miami isn't even that big of a market. If it's larger than Cleveland it isn't by much.