Ticket 760: Richard Jefferson to re-sign next week. [Archive] - Page 2

Dex

07-20-2010, 12:35 PM

Like him or not, Jefferson is probably the best the Spurs can hope for right now. He's the only mid-level talent player the Spurs can fiscally hope to obtain.

It's either we bring back RJ and find him a suitable backup, or we have that suitable backup starting next season.

And no, Hairston is not the answer either. Maybe for backup, but I'm not convinced he's ready for major minutes.

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 12:35 PM

1 year, 10M. Has any team offered better?

4>0rings

07-20-2010, 12:39 PM

With Bonners contract one can only assume 6 years with RJ at 10+ mil.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 12:42 PM

1 year, 10M. Has any team offered better?

Not very realistic. I think it's time to just let this one go, Dude. Accept fate and move on. Maybe you will be pleasantly surprised.

Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes, well, he eats you.

MaNu4Tres

07-20-2010, 12:47 PM

I don't think 8/9 mil a year for 3 years (or 7.5 million for 4 yrs) is exactly the death of our financial flexibility for the future. An eight million dollar salary figure will be a very tradeable piece in just two years when it's expiring. (If R.J doesn't produce). Two years for a player with a high proven ceiling for 7-9 million is worth the risk compared to the alternative (Simmons starting at SF). IMO

I know R.J didn't have the prototypical Bowen-like contribution on the defensive end or from the corner 3 that many of us solely judge him on. But fact is the guy still produced in other aspects (IMO) and helped out the team in ways we tend to forget (58 outings in the reg. season he scored double digits; his off the ball defense contesting shots at the rim and the 32 outings he scored over 15 points.) He wasn't Bowen-like with superior foot speed and lateral quickness on the perimeter, but he is a good versatile defender that is able to defend the bigger and more methodical wings ( Pierce, Melo, Artest, ect.) and he can contest shots off the ball and become an active player in that regard. *Not to mention his ability to convert at a very high percentage in transition, which should be an asset because of the Spurs finally adding Splitter to help the interior defense*

The fact that R.J's contribution can't really get any worse than it was for a portion of last year (February (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=1006))and for the fact that the guy has a very high and proven ceiling, capable of being a reliable 3 point threat;(which will open up many lanes for him to get to the rim and the line and open up the flood gates on the Spurs overall potential) makes me believe he is the Spurs best option if they want to get to the championship. The higher the potential, the better the chance Spurs have at number 5. IMO

Glad to see Spurs aren't overlooking their best and most realistic viable option at small forward. :tu

hater

07-20-2010, 12:51 PM

The Dick Jefferson Experiment Season 2

:pctoss

Stringer_Bell

07-20-2010, 01:00 PM

1 year, 10M. Has any team offered better?

Is that the offer? I think what upset most people last season was knowing so much money was going into him while we still needed to work out stuff with Manu, wonder about Splitter's price, and simply just not getting great performances from RJ.

I think 8m for 3 years, considering that RJ will better know his role and not be under so much pressure will be a good thing for the team. I call that a Free Agent success, we all saw he had moments where his potential was seen.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 01:09 PM

I expect a three year 7-8 mil per deal. Long enough to give Jefferson the security he wanted and low enough to not tie the Spurs down in future contract negotiations. I don't think RJ's signing will have any effect on a TP extension and, considering what ridiculous players with less talent are getting, it's a bargain. It's also not a that bad of a trade chip if it comes down to that.

Shastafarian

07-20-2010, 01:11 PM

I think we'll be surprised at whatever the figure is, high or low.

Mr. Body

07-20-2010, 01:13 PM

I'm very happy to have him back. He struggled last year and clearly did not deserve the level of salary he was receiving. Maybe that gave him undue pressure, I don't know. But he is clearly the best option we have at SF by far and without the overwhelming expectations he can be a very nice piece on this team. As, well, he was last year.

cd98

07-20-2010, 01:20 PM

According to earlier reports, he was working exclusively with Pop this summer. I can only hope that the extra time will help him to better understand his role and play within it comfortably.

BTW, did anyone notice how effective he was on the block? Probably not because we barely ever called that play for him. Yet he seemed to be able to overpower his defenders or shoot over the top. Hopefully Pop lets him go down there, particularly when Duncan, our best player in the post, is on the bench.

DesignatedT

07-20-2010, 01:21 PM

RJ will definitely be much improved next season... just like every new spur is in there 2nd year.

Shastafarian

07-20-2010, 01:23 PM

RJ will definitely be much improved next season... just like every new spur is in there 2nd year.

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/masonballs.jpg

Sup

Mr.Bottomtooth

07-20-2010, 01:26 PM

:lol

DesignatedT

07-20-2010, 01:26 PM

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/masonballs.jpg

Sup

Touche.

cd98

07-20-2010, 01:26 PM

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/masonballs.jpg

Sup

In fairness, RJ is way, way more talented that RMJ.

5in10

07-20-2010, 01:27 PM

RJ will definitely be much improved next season... just like every new spur is in there 2nd year.

Like Roger mason?

5in10

07-20-2010, 01:28 PM

Beat me to it.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 01:30 PM

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/masonballs.jpg

Sup
http://justgivemethestats.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/spurs07bowen.jpgSup

Shastafarian

07-20-2010, 01:35 PM

http://justgivemethestats.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/spurs07bowen.jpgSup

RJ will definitely be much improved next season... just like every new spur is in there 2nd year.

DesignatedT

07-20-2010, 01:40 PM

Okay.... RJ will definitely be much improved next season.... just like most new spurs are in there 2nd year.

comparing RJ's skillset to those of RMJ and Bowen is a joke btw but point taken.

Shastafarian

07-20-2010, 01:41 PM

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

rascal

07-20-2010, 01:42 PM

the combination of additions of splitter, anderson, and a healthy parker + the further development hill and blair and temple + jefferson and mcdyess improving (if only a little) in their second years in the system should be greater than the collective declines of duncan and ginobili for this year.

so there is a reasonable expectation that the team be better than it was last year. it may require some things to right and still probably not enough to surpass the lakers, but a better team nonetheless.

now, this offseason hasn't gone spectacular, but i'd argue that there weren't moves to be made that would have propelled the spurs back up to the top (at least no moves that didn't involve a chris wallace type favor). i never viewed splitter as more than a 50/50 shot, so his signing alone makes this a (mild) success in my eyes.

How do you figure McDyess improving. The opposite is more likely, he is a year older.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 01:46 PM

comparing RJ's skillset to those of RMJ and Bowen is a joke btw but point taken.

That was kind of the point. Well, for me anyway.

angelbelow

07-20-2010, 01:47 PM

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

Can't accurately guage. 2009 was the year that Ginobili was injured for quite a while and the Spurs were miserable on offense. We had TP, Duncan, and the rest of the point we had to scrap for. As a result, Mason had more offensive freedom compared to RJ.

For RJ, he joined a team that was offensively loaded. We had Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, the emergence of Hill, Dice, Blair.

So in terms of offense, they were in completely different situations and I dont think we can gauge who had a better first season because the situations were so different.

Now in terms of defense.. I would taken RJ over Mason. RJ is bigger, stronger, and has more defensive potential.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 01:49 PM

How do you figure McDyess improving. The opposite is more likely, he is a year older.

I think it's possible if he stays healthy and gets reduced minutes from a more experienced Blair and a, hopefully solid, Splitter.

Dex

07-20-2010, 01:50 PM

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

Relatively speaking, Mason.

At least Mason experienced a peak when he first joined the Spurs, and was a stable contributor for around half a season until Pop started the point guard experiment. That time with the Spurs was probably one of the strongest periods of his career. Then his production dropped off dramatically, and he was obviously a playoff no-show.

Jefferson wasn't terrible, but aside from the occasional teaser game, he was mired in a valley of his own play the entire season. And also a playoff no-show for the most part (except for Game 2 against Dallas).

At least Mason had a high to come down from. I think we're still waiting to see what Jefferson really has to offer.

coyotes_geek

07-20-2010, 01:50 PM

Can't accurately guage. 2009 was the year that Ginobili was injured for quite a while and the Spurs were miserable on offense. We had TP, Duncan, and the rest of the point we had to scrap for. As a result, Mason had more offensive freedom compared to RJ.

For RJ, he joined a team that was offensively loaded. We had Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, the emergence of Hill, Dice, Blair.

So in terms of offense, they were in completely different situations and I dont think we can gauge who had a better first season because the situations were so different.

Now in terms of defense.. I would taken RJ over Mason. RJ is bigger, stronger, and has more defensive potential.

:tu

Good analysis. I'd also add that Mason wasn't coming in with near the expectations on him that RJ had on him.

elemento

07-20-2010, 01:53 PM

I really miss Bowen !

Wish we had taken Batum. The guy has a huge potential !!

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 01:56 PM

Who would you say did better in their first year as a Spur; Mason or RJ?

Totally different situations. Mason was a low pressure role player and we still had Berry, Finley and Udoka. RMJ was letting them fly free and easy. RJ had to start and was under a whole lot of pressure. Everything negative that RJ did was magnified and his positives were diminished because he didn't do it consistently enough.

lefty

07-20-2010, 02:02 PM

cd98

07-20-2010, 02:06 PM

RMJ started strong when he got lots of playing time as TP was injured. But he faded midseason of his first go around as teams realized that he was useless once chased off the three point line. By his second season, he appeared to have no confidence in his shooting.

RJ played well, but not well enough for someone making his money. If we had RJ for the mid level, everyone would have said he was playing well.

That's not to say that we don't need more out of him. But the same could be said of every player on our roster after watching the Spurs get swept by the Suns.

ElNono

07-20-2010, 02:14 PM

RJ simply doesn't strike me as the guy that genuinely wants to stay and be coached.

When the season started he was saying all the right things: "I need to learn", "it's on me to get better".
Then when Pop started playing him at the 4, at first he said the right things again, "this is the first time I play there", "I need to learn the new position", etc.
Then he complained about it "I told pop I don't feel comfortable there, and he understood", etc.
Ultimately Pop kept on playing him at the 4, simply because he was the best option there for small ball.

The reality is that he never fit at the 3 or at the 4. And it's not because of lack of trying, it's just that he has lost any lateral mobility he had, and also because in our system he was needed to also be a spot up shooter, something he is not. On top of that, his motivation for defense seems to be entirely tied to his touches on offense.

In short, I don't think he's really looking to come back. If he does, it's probably going to be an entirely money-driven decision. I also don't think the FO is blind to this, and I don't think they want to offer him anything long term either.

Just my 2c.

alchemist

07-20-2010, 02:26 PM

:depressed RJ would help out tremendously in a Nash/Kidd/Paul/Deron system, he's definitely not cut out to be a current Spur. If it's a 4 year deal hopefully the last 3 years are team options :lol :toast

Spurs Brazil

07-20-2010, 02:39 PM

JMcDonald_SAEN
For those who would rather get their Spurs/RJ fix from Stein instead of me: http://es.pn/97K3qL (Basically says this week's the week)

:lol McDonald knows nobody trust him

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 05:38 PM

Why is it a given to sign RJ to a LTD? Why not one year or two? Who is giving him any offers?

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 05:44 PM

Why is it a given to sign RJ to a LTD? Why not one year or two? Who is giving him any offers?

I think he had some kind of loose agreement with the Spurs in place before he opted out and that the details of that agreement would be hashed out after both parties had explored the options. The Spurs more than likely agreed to give Jefferson a long term contract and he agreed to less money.

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 05:47 PM

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 05:49 PM

Maybe the Spurs are ready to sign a back-up SF and wanted to lockdown RJ first.

coyotes_geek

07-20-2010, 06:21 PM

That is the most likely scenario (unless Jefferson is not really smart), but then why wait so long or why not wait longer?

If there is no agreement, Spurs should offer no more than 2 years. They should absolutely not sign him longer than that and they don't need to outbid themselves if there was no pre-arranged deal.

If you only offer 2 years you open up the competition to teams willing to offer more years than that. There's still a good number of teams with their full MLE's, and it would only take one willing to offer full MLE for 4 years to beat any 2 year deal that you would want the Spurs to offer.

Was there a team out there willing to offer up full MLE for 4 years? Hard to say. There sure hasn't been much FA buzz about Jefferson, but is that because no team out there thinks highly of him? Or is it because the Spurs had priced out about 2/3 of the market by making him a long term offer at something over the MLE? There's bidding against yourself and then there's bidding enough to price out your competition. We'll just have to see the contract details to make a judgement on which applies here.

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 06:30 PM

If you only offer 2 years you open up the competition to teams willing to offer more years than that. There's still a good number of teams with their full MLE's, and it would only take one willing to offer full MLE for 4 years to beat any 2 year deal that you would want the Spurs to offer.

So? Let them make the offer and then match if you want to. I don't see anyone offering the full MLE to an aging Jefferson. IMO it is worth the risk, because for the Spurs, even worst case scenario, full MLE is not terrible value for RJ (not as a fit, but overall talent).

Was there a team out there willing to offer up full MLE for 4 years? Hard to say. There sure hasn't been much FA buzz about Jefferson, but is that because no team out there thinks highly of him? Or is it because the Spurs had priced out about 2/3 of the market by making him a long term offer at something over the MLE? There's bidding against yourself and then there's bidding enough to price out your competition. We'll just have to see the contract details to make a judgement on which applies here.

There is nothing that the Spurs could offer that would keep a team from offering the full MLE imo. Even if the Spurs offered 4/40 which is by far the highest thing speculated, a team could easily still offer a 5 year MLE offer and come close to that.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 06:42 PM

I don't see anyone offering the full MLE to an aging Jefferson.

He's only 30. Bruce was 30 his first year with the Spurs. I'm not comparing the two . . . but, it is plausible that Jefferson could have a career renaissance. He is still young, healthy and he possesses the skills. He just needs to put in the effort. If Pop thinks he can get through to him, then you have to believe there is a possibility.

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 06:50 PM

It is definitely possible, but if RJ can't get a good deal in this market, that saw guys like Petro, Frye, Gooden.....get deals, then his stock can't be that high.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 06:54 PM

Bigs are over-valued.

ElNono

07-20-2010, 06:56 PM

If a team offers 4/MLE, then the Spurs match and you end up getting the better value for RJ. Spurs are happy because they paid market value. RJ is happy because he gets his 4 years. And that's the end of that.

Still better value than the $25m+ being talked about right now.

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 06:59 PM

Bigs are over-valued.

True, but Petro? What about Kleiza or Gay for 85M, or Joe for 120+M, or Reddick 20M, Miller 30M

Everyone but RJ cashed in somewhat.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 07:05 PM

I know. I think last season really hurt his value. Gay is a low risk investment. Johnson is pretty solid and the Hawks know what they have there. Miller got the best deal the Heat could offer after 631. Kleiza and Reddick? You got me there. I don't know.
Truth is, we don't really know what RJ was offered. Maybe money wasn't the only motivating factor in his plan?

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 07:09 PM

Perhaps, but RJ is a pretty big name and him opting out was a surprise to everyone. Having said that, we have not heard a peep about any offers. He was under a microscope and we heard nothing.

He made it pretty well known from most reports he did not want to play in SA. All those things add up to his value being low imo. If that is the case and there was no arranged deal for him to opt out, I low ball him big time.

I take the risk that someone swoops in with a full MLE offer.

ElNono

07-20-2010, 07:10 PM

Actually we did hear neither NJ or NY were interested in him when he was actually interested in going back there, IIRC.

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 07:12 PM

No official reports came out that said that from what I remember. Or at least for everyone that came out, there was another one calling it false.

Even if there was an interest, it never seemed to get close to materializing.

ohmwrecker

07-20-2010, 07:15 PM

He made it pretty well known from most reports he did not want to play in SA.

I don't recall hearing anything like that. In fact, everything I've heard leads me to believe he has communicated with the Spurs the whole time and if all this pans out, has done them a tremendous "solid".

DPG21920

07-20-2010, 07:20 PM

I don't see him doing the Spurs a solid unless he gets something in return, so it would be mutual. That makes logical sense, but we won't know until the numbers come out.

HarlemHeat37

04-29-2011, 11:30 PM

He might be better than the other options for 1 season, but if he's signed to 4 or 5 years, maybe even 3(one of these options is obviously likely), I will be sick..

His shooting obviously has to improve, that will help his game out a lot, but I don't see how else he will improve here, IMO..

One of the many quotables in this thread..

Everybody, delete your optimistic RJ quotes, before they're bumped..