"It's Dallas, baby!"

[Findog]

That's what Donnie Nelson said when he was asked why NBA players would want to come play for the Mavericks. Dallas is perpetually over the cap, but they seem to always miss out on their MLE targets. To my knowledge, the Mavs have NEVER signed a big-name free agent, unless you want to count an old-ass broke down Alex English and Fat Lever. Still, even the MLE targets like Al Harrington want nothing to do with us.

Can somebody explain to me what is so awful about Dallas? I understand everything being equal in terms of money, a player would probably rather sign with the Lakers, etc. But what is so terrible about Dallas:

- no state income tax
- top five media market
- Dallas women are hot
- good enough nightlife by NBA players standards
- warm-weather climate when the NBA season spans the winter
- owner who treats his players well, almost to the point of coddling and enabling lack of accountability
- make your jokes about first-round exits and choking, but after 10 years, the Mavs have a tradition now of winning and being competitive. That sure beats plying your trade for the Clippers, Kings or Wolves.


Can somebody help me out here?

[Findog]

lol Mavs

just to get that out of the way

[clambake]

it's in texas

[Findog]

it's in texas

I can only think of LA, Chicago, New York, Orlando and Miami being more desirable destinations.

[ElNono]

There's championship expectations... wether you like it or not, players like Al Harrington don't want to know anything about that kind of pressure.

[Halberto]

I agree with everything you say, but the nightlife here (uptown) revolves around yuppies.

[My Fault]

I'm sure Man About Town can contribute

[Findog]

There's championship expectations... wether you like it or not, players like Al Harrington don't want to know anything about that kind of pressure.

That's an interesting perspective and one I hadn't heard before.

[xellos88330]

I think it really comes down to the character of the franchise. Sure they chalk up wins, but they talk too much. If the Mavericks fans, radio hosts, players, owners weren't such drama queens and keep their traps shut, then maybe they could be more attractive.

I am not trying to troll or anything, but I wouldn't want to play in Dallas for any amount of money because those that talk too much are more likely to say things that I wouldn't like.

Long story short, it is an immature franchise.

[Findog]

I agree with everything you say, but the nightlife here (uptown) revolves around yuppies.

The black guys don't care about Uptown. I bet you can find them at Plush or 1920 Elm.

[dallaskd]

Dallas is a badass place to live. I moved here from sao paulo when i was really little and cant see myself ever moving. Great clubs, food, shopping, weather, girls, and the dallas cowboys.

[vy65]

Racist, ignorant douche-nozzles. Pretentious ass-hattery. And wanna-be major metropoliton city. It's a glorified cow town and is pretty monochromatic. Doesn't hold a candle to NY/NJ, LA, MIA, San Fran/Oakland, Portland, Denver, or Chicago. What difference is there between DFW, PHX, or ATL?

[ElNono]

There's also the fact that your GM is Donnie Nelson... god only knows what that guy is pitching to these FAs...

[Leetonidas]

Oakland? I was born there bro, Oakland fucking blows.

[dallaskd]

The black guys don't care about Uptown. I bet you can find them at Plush or 1920 Elm.

Greenville, Northwest HW, Harry Hines

[Findog]

I think it really comes down to the character of the franchise. Sure they chalk up wins, but they talk too much. If the Mavericks fans, radio hosts, players, owners weren't such drama queens and keep their traps shut, then maybe they could be more attractive.

I am not trying to troll or anything, but I wouldn't want to play in Dallas for any amount of money because those that talk too much are more likely to say things that I wouldn't like.

As much great things as Cuban as done, I think he has fostered an environment of excuses-making and a lack of accountability. And there is too much talk about winning a championship for a franchise that currently does not have an elite roster.

When the Mavs lost to the Heat, they were careful not to say anything publicly and explicitly that reeked of blaming the officiating, but they certainly insinuated it and let that perspective run rampant through the fanbase. And instead of making a play for an upgrade in talent, they tinkered with the edge of the rotation in the wake of being a Finals runnerup. That playoff run owed as much to Amare being hurt as the Mavs playing great.

When they lost to Golden State, they didn't come out and say "This is unacceptable. We won 67 games and just shit the bed against an 8 seed. We're gonna be making big changes." Instead it was all this shit about how they ran into the 'perfect storm', Golden State had matchup advantages, the Mavs "peaked too early," etc. There's some truth to that, but the bottom line is that they still should've beaten the Warriors and except for 2003 and 2006, they have perpetually UNDERACHIEVED in the playoffs.

[vy65]

Oracle arena is in Oakland; players live in SF prolly

[Findog]

Racist, ignorant douche-nozzles. Pretentious ass-hattery. And wanna-be major metropoliton city. It's a glorified cow town and is pretty monochromatic. Doesn't hold a candle to NY/NJ, LA, MIA, San Fran/Oakland, Portland, Denver, or Chicago. What difference is there between DFW, PHX, or ATL?

No it doesn't hold a candle to SF, Portland, Denver or Chicago, but from an NBA perspective, black guys don't want to play in the first three of those cities listed if they can help it.

[Findog]

Greenville, Northwest HW, Harry Hines

Oh yeah, I forgot about those places. I never go north of Northwest Highway. North Dallas fucking sucks.

[dirk4mvp]

I can only think of LA, Chicago, New York, Orlando and Miami being more desirable destinations.

What's great about Orlando?

[xellos88330]

As much great things as Cuban as done, I think he has fostered an environment of excuses-making and a lack of accountability. And there is too much talk about winning a championship for a franchise that currently does not have an elite roster.

When the Mavs lost to the Heat, they were careful not to say anything publicly and explicitly that reeked of blaming the officiating, but they certainly insinuated it and let that perspective run rampant through the fanbase. And instead of making a play for an upgrade in talent, they tinkered with the edge of the rotation in the wake of being a Finals runnerup. That playoff run owed as much to Amare being hurt as the Mavs playing great.

When they lost to Golden State, they didn't come out and say "This is unacceptable. We won 67 games and just shit the bed against an 8 seed. We're gonna be making big changes." Instead it was all this shit about how they ran into the 'perfect storm', Golden State had matchup advantages, the Mavs "peaked too early," etc. There's some truth to that, but the bottom line is that they still should've beaten the Warriors and except for 2003 and 2006, they have perpetually UNDERACHIEVED in the playoffs.

This is one of the things that turns me off about the Mavs. They feel entitled and when they fail, it is someone elses fault. It is immaturity at its finest.

[vy65]

If we're talking about Les Negres, then Houston, Atlanta, and Memphis hold way more appeal than Dallas. What black guy wants to live in the same city as George Bush? Shit, SA is probably more black friendly than Dallas; don't underestimate the Black-Latina love connection.

[Findog]

What's great about Orlando?

Great weather, lack of state income tax, supposedly hot chicks, the organization is one of the better ones in terms of being financially committed to winning.

[rjv]

dallas women are surgically enhanced hot. miami women are grace of god hot.

country music vs. salsa merengue

man made lake vs. beach

[dirk4mvp]

Great weather, lack of state income tax, supposedly hot chicks, the organization is one of the better ones in terms of being financially committed to winning.

I guess if you want to be undeservingly overpaid, Otis is the guy to talk to.

[dallaskd]

Dallas has a large black appeal are you kidding me..

[Findog]

Washington DC is more desirable than Dallas to some as well.

But the Wizards organization is a joke. If it were just the city alone, Atlanta is a more desirable destination for your average NBA player than Dallas.

[easy7]

I used to live in Dallas for about 20 yrs, and I am glad I am out of there. Trinity River smells like ass, I am sure Culby would be in heaven there. :lmao
There is a lot of racist people in that town (and being a Spaniard I know about racism :lmao but these motherfuckers tell me to step aside), even at the professional levels. When I went to UTA, there were a couple of houses on the outskirts of the University that sported the Rebel flag. I know Arlington is close to Ft. Worth but it is too close for comfort. :hat

[Findog]

dallas women are surgically enhanced hot. miami women are grace of god hot.

country music vs. salsa merengue

man made lake vs. beach


Black people love Dallas, and it has nothing to do with country music.

[Greg Oden]

Washington DC is more desirable than Dallas to some as well.

That's just you being retarded and saying that because you live in the area. No one wants to live there or play for that team.

[Greg Oden]

I used to live in Dallas for about 20 yrs, and I am glad I am out of there. Trinity River smells like ass, I am sure Culby would be in heaven there. :lmao
There is a lot of racist people in that town, even at the professional levels. When I went to UTA, there were a couple of houses on the outskirts of the University that sported the Rebel flag. I know Arlington is close to Ft. Worth but it is too close for comfort. :hat

Oh god, someone in the southern united states donning a confederate flag. I don't think I've ever heard of such.

[Findog]

I used to live in Dallas for about 20 yrs, and I am glad I am out of there. Trinity River smells like ass, I am sure Culby would be in heaven there. :lmao
There is a lot of racist people in that town, even at the professional levels. When I went to UTA, there were a couple of houses on the outskirts of the University that sported the Rebel flag. I know Arlington is close to Ft. Worth but it is too close for comfort. :hat

The DFW suburbs are horrible, but the west side of Ft. Worth and certain Dallas neighborhoods like Lakewood and Kessler Park are great places to live.

[easy7]

Oh god, someone in the southern united states donning a confederate flag. I don't think I've ever heard of such.

Kind of makes you wonder if those mofos are learning anything in college.

[Findog]

Racist

It's not racist, it's just a fact. Atlanta, and to a lesser extent Dallas, holds great appeal to African-Americans.

[vy65]

Tbh, Dallas epitomizes mediocrity. Not a complete shit hole but not even close to a cool city. Most professional athletes strive for perfection and wouldn't want to associate with mediocrity tbh.

[dallaskd]

The DFW suburbs are horrible, but the west side of Ft. Worth and certain Dallas neighborhoods like Lakewood and Kessler Park are great places to live.


Frisco, Plano, Southlake, Coppell, and Flower Mound are all great places to live. Rich white people, but still.. very nice.

[Greg Oden]

Tbh, Dallas epitomizes mediocrity. Not a complete shit hole but not even close to a cool city. Most professional athletes strive for perfection and wouldn't want to associate with mediocrity tbh.

is a native of san antonio uttering these words?

[rjv]

one thing the spurs get is that they generally recruit the players that fit the mold of the city. more cerebral types, family or low key types and tend to avoid the bigger personalities. whereas dallas may sometimes think it is on par with the major metro areas appeal to all players.

and as the spurs getting other players outside their usual realm that has alot to do with players having been attracted to the championship pedigree and the reputation of the organization.

dallas has no championship appeal to offer.

[Findog]

The city of DC is desirable for negros. How is that not a known fact.

You keep glossing over the fact that the Wizards are a joke at this point.

[Greg Oden]

The city of DC is desirable for negros. How is that not a known fact.

So are a lot of NBA cities. DC doesn't stand out.

[vy65]

Not a native of SA. SA is where fun goes to get raped and die. Doesn't mean DFW is cool tho

[Findog]

one thing the spurs get is that they generally recruit the players that fit the mold of the city. more cerebral types, family or low key types and tend to avoid the bigger personalities. whereas dallas may sometimes think it is on par with the major metro areas appeal to all players.

.

I agree with this - the Spurs put more of an emphasis on getting guys that will fit into their system and ethos of unselfishness than a splashy, sexy name.

[Cane]

Only city that non-Texans like is Austin. Not even Chris Bosh wants to play for Texas and he's a god damn native ;)

[dallaskd]

http://www.wseas.us/e-library/conferences/2007dallas/math/Dallas2.jpg

[Findog]

Orlando blows too.


Well professional athletes disagree, because quite a few of them make that their home. Tiger Woods, Ken Griffey Jr just off the top of my head. Not all of them are white PGA tour members.

[Findog]

Only city that non-Texans like is Austin. Not even Chris Bosh wants to play for Texas and he's a god damn native ;)

Well, in his case, he's a pussy who admitted that he doesn't want that kind of pressure of having to help carry a team to a title. And he won't have that pressure as a third option in Miami.

[vy65]

What a mesmerizing skyline. Manhattanization of TX tbh

[Findog]

What a mesmerizing skyline. Manhattanization of TX tbh

The ironic thing is that downtown Dallas has NO entertainment district, no reason to be there after 6 pm. West End is a shithole tourist trap.

[SenorSpur]

As much great things as Cuban as done, I think he has fostered an environment of excuses-making and a lack of accountability. And there is too much talk about winning a championship for a franchise that currently does not have an elite roster.

When the Mavs lost to the Heat, they were careful not to say anything publicly and explicitly that reeked of blaming the officiating, but they certainly insinuated it and let that perspective run rampant through the fanbase. And instead of making a play for an upgrade in talent, they tinkered with the edge of the rotation in the wake of being a Finals runnerup. That playoff run owed as much to Amare being hurt as the Mavs playing great.

When they lost to Golden State, they didn't come out and say "This is unacceptable. We won 67 games and just shit the bed against an 8 seed. We're gonna be making big changes." Instead it was all this shit about how they ran into the 'perfect storm', Golden State had matchup advantages, the Mavs "peaked too early," etc. There's some truth to that, but the bottom line is that they still should've beaten the Warriors and except for 2003 and 2006, they have perpetually UNDERACHIEVED in the playoffs.

Findog, you've made some very compelling and valid points. Here's some insights from afar, as someone who lives in the metroplex.

According to everything I hear on local Dallas talk radio and from GM Donnie Nelson, the Mavs are fashioning a team they think can matchup with the Fakers. That's a clear objective and a reasonable goal - except for one thing - the Mavs have gotten outed in the 1st round of the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years.

One of their problems is desparation. That type of desparation causes a team and an owner to overspend, overreact, forfeit assets (surrendering future 1st round picks in ill-advised trades - 2 to the Warriors in the Dampier trade and 2 more to the Nets in the Kidd trade).

The Mavs are constantly making changes hoping to find "instant oatmeal". Sometimes they make changes to undo changes made during previous transactions. There doesn't simply to be a clear objective. At times, and instead of addressing needs, they just seem to be adding players (and salaries) simply to stockpile talent. Almost like a fantasy team.

However, the core of their team simply isn't built to win a title. They have one truly great player (Nowitizki) and a bunch of expensive, former all-star caliber players, a very few role players. Furthermore, they're not a team that is built to win in the playoffs because they traditionally do not defend or rebound well enough. Aside from the Avery era, they haven't been as good defensively, before or since.

I can understand the sense of urgency because of the Nowitzki career countdown in progress. However, Cuban and Nelson seem to think that it's possible to catch "lightening in a bottle". With the exception of the 2009 Boston Celtics, championship teams are rarely built overnight or even over a summer.

[JJ Hickson]

I can only think of LA, Chicago, New York, Orlando and Miami being more desirable destinations.


Orlando is a shit hole.

[fmedrano1977]

Racist, ignorant douche-nozzles. Pretentious ass-hattery. And wanna-be major metropoliton city. It's a glorified cow town and is pretty monochromatic. Doesn't hold a candle to NY/NJ, LA, MIA, San Fran/Oakland, Portland, Denver, or Chicago. What difference is there between DFW, PHX, or ATL?

Amount of mayates differs in all 3..

[vy65]

I hear you can get a nice tug job from the meth head hookers at the greyhound station, but other than that, motherfucking co-signed son.

[dallaskd]

The ironic thing is that downtown Dallas has NO entertainment district, no reason to be there after 6 pm. West End is a shithole tourist trap.

cant agree more. downtown has nothing. all the entertainment and clubs string off 75, 635, and 35. like 10 minutes outside downtown. you do have fairpark and the AAC down there. West End and Uptown has nice places to eat though. And the Arts District if your gay..

[Mavs_man_41]

You fuckers hatin on Dallas are way out of place and don't know shit. Dallas and fort worth have some great nightlife and fine women especially Hispanics. Hell 4th of July
weekend over in fort worth them damn mexicans were partying it up on every street corner and front yard. It's not Miami but it ain't a bad place to live and it's very diverse.

[Findog]

One of their problems is desparation. That type of desparation causes a team and an owner to overspend, overreact, forfeit assets (surrendering future 1st round picks in ill-advised trades - 2 to the Warriors in the Dampier trade and 2 more to the Nets in the Kidd trade).

One heartening thing is that Cuban seems to FINALLY be learning from his mistakes. The holdup in the Al Jefferson deal was Dallas' reluctance to part with two firsts (I know we perpetually draft in the twenties but we acquired Josh Howard and Roddy B that way), along with Minnesota refusing to take back a bad contract. The cap and luxury tax hit for acquiring Big Al was more than Cuban was willing to stomach. He didn't want to pay dollar for dollar lux tax for a guy who would only be playing 28 minutes a game.

We haven't added talent this summer, but we have added some length to the roster and acquired some financial flexibility. The Tyson Chandler trade isn't a home run, but probably a solid single. Got rid of two bad contracts and acquired defensive length in the frontline with a guy playing for his next contract.

[fmedrano1977]

Washington DC is more desirable than Dallas to some as well.

:nope Obama lives there..

[vy65]

Lol diverse.

I tried, but I can't see the appeal of Dallas at all. It's like a wanna be LA for retards, I don't get it.

[Homeland Security]

Racist, ignorant douche-nozzles. Pretentious ass-hattery. And wanna-be major metropoliton city. It's a glorified cow town and is pretty monochromatic. Doesn't hold a candle to NY/NJ, LA, MIA, San Fran/Oakland, Portland, Denver, or Chicago. What difference is there between DFW, PHX, or ATL?
lol at faggoty-ass lawyer speaking for black people on what cities they like
lol listing Portland
Portland is whiter than Sweden

[Findog]

Portland is whiter than Sweden

And it rains all the time. Two big strikes against it if you're a black NBA player. But some former Trailblazers have appreciated what Portland has to offer and stick around after retirement - see David Halberstam's "Breaks of the Game."

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Portland is whiter than Sweden

:lol

[vy65]

lol at faggoty-ass lawyer speaking for black people on what cities they like
lol listing Portland
Portland is whiter than Sweden

I have my first cyber stalker. I'm so happy, if only ma and pa were around to see this ...

[dallaskd]

https://lowestlifeinsuranceratesintexas.com/images/dallas_skyline_0540.jpg
http://www.strokersdallas.com/email/missstrokers.jpg
http://www.nflfootballpicks.org/content_images/cowboys-girl(2)-a.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.luxist.com/media/2009/02/h0hlml1s.jpg
http://content.onsmash.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/dorrough.jpg
http://www.spottedhere.com/photos/misc/12_1225701915.jpg
http://thestartingfive.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/terrell-owens.jpg
http://www.spottedhere.com/photos/club+purgatory/5_1225783347.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xAsxoR0MHHo/S7U0yEPnMQI/AAAAAAAAAIo/tH_dmE4_Vyw/s320/modano-cup.jpg
http://betweenthepoles.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/josh-hamilton.jpg
http://www.codingthewheel.com/image.axd?picture=dallas_night.jpg
http://www.dfwdriveyourdream.com/events/images/full/135.jpg
http://www.mediaarchitecture.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/VMN01s.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3100/3155684594_e9d2e4f7c6.jpg
http://www.themarketingshop.com/images/6flags.jpg
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2006_2nd/DallasWRendering.jpeg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3200/3129349669_acbbfd411f.jpg
http://texas-dallas.org/images/texas_state_fair_in_dallas.jpg


in a nutshell

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Seems pretty simple. Before Mark Cuban, no one would have wanted to do anything with that franchise. Since Mark Cuban bought the team they've had no cap room and have never been contenders in free agency. As far as Al Harrington goes, it's anyone's guess. I think he knew that Rick Carlisle wouldn't let him chuck a bunch of dumb shots and chose to go to a team where he knew he would have the green light to do whatever he wants a la JR Smith.

I know others might disagree, but for what Mark Cuban gives in financial commitment he lacks in NBA savvy, the guy is completely clueless as to how the NBA works. He and Sarver are alike in the sense they both have the local media wrapped around their finger writing article after article defending the stupid decisions they make. They both are content doing things their way, having the local media defend it, tucking the fact they are absolutely clueless under the rug, and only surrounding them with people who are gonna tell them the way they operate is right. It's even worse with Sarver because of all the quality front office personnel he's let go of because they didn't want to operate the way he does, but Cuban is flawed in the same way. He won't get rid of a GM who is obviously incompetent because that GM will go along with his way of thinking, and he has a coach who is allowed to fuck a bunch of stuff up as long as he doesn't take an opposing stance to Cuban.

[Cry Havoc]

What a mesmerizing skyline. Manhattanization of TX tbh

It's nice.


This is what it's competing with, though:

http://www.juliussuber.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/photo_chicago-skyline.jpg

http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/136289_skylinefk4_jpge2335e849846a2ba78f8a38aa12b2 ffb

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/118/363432085_d5b615ebba.jpg

This isn't to suggest that Dallas is a poor place to live. I've been there. It's a cool city. But NBA players like hype, they like the feel of a city that seems linked to Hollywood, or at least the glitz and glamor. This typically involves a city situated next to a large body of water. Miami, Chicago, LA, NYC are all major cities with a staggering skyline that is situated nearby to a large beach. Yes, there are a lot of lakes in the Dallas metro area, but nothing comparable to Lake Michigan or one of the oceans.

Dallas just isn't marketed as that kind of a city, for better or worse.

[Findog]

I know others might disagree, but for what Mark Cuban gives in financial commitment he lacks in NBA savvy, the guy is completely clueless as to how the NBA works. .

I think Cuban has gotten better when it comes to savvy. He got a better player than Damp and dumped two bad contracts on the Bobcats yesterday. Dallas now has $29 million in expirings if another elite player comes available. But his loyalty to Donnie is mystifying.

[Man About Town]

It IS Dallas, baby! Hey Al Harrington, I hope you like skiing and getting shot at by the guy who killed Darrent Williams. This is what you're missing, Oak Cliff style:

http://www.clubfuji.com/Ash/hot%20black%20girl.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I think Cuban has gotten better when it comes to savvy. He got a better player than Damp and dumped two bad contracts on the Bobcats yesterday. Dallas now has $29 million in expirings if another elite player comes available. But his loyalty to Donnie is mystifying.


If he were taking a long term approach then I'd agree there, or even if they were taking the "Stay competitive while rebuilding" approach Steve Kerr did a great job with till Sarver fucked it up. The problem is Cuban passes Dallas off like they're a team in win now mode where everything less than a championship is a failure, but all they do every off season is make a few half assed moves that add a few good role players but don't give them the 1-2 studs next to Dirk they need to contend.

That was a good trade for the reasons you mentioned, but having Chandler makes it so Haywood won't be worth his contract. If they made that trade, didn't resign Haywood, and split the MLE between two cheap short term deals for an athletic SG who defends well and never settles for jumpers (Ronnie Brewer, Rodney Carney, etc.) and a veteran big then it would make a whole lot more sense to me. It would set them up for a lot of cap room in two years, and they'd still be a competitive team that could get to the conference finals.

With a new CBA in a year that might reconstruct things completely, I just don't think very many competent GMs or owners should be shelling out long term money to role players unless they are that close to a championship.

[Findog]

If he were taking a long term approach then I'd agree there, or even if they were taking the "Stay competitive while rebuilding" approach Steve Kerr did a great job with till Sarver fucked it up. The problem is Cuban passes Dallas off like they're a team in win now mode where everything less than a championship is a failure, but all they do every off season is make a few half assed moves that add a few good role players but don't give them the 1-2 studs next to Dirk they need to contend.

That was a good trade for the reasons you mentioned, but having Chandler makes it so Haywood won't be worth his contract. If they made that trade, didn't resign Haywood, and split the MLE between two cheap short term deals for an athletic SG who defends well and never settles for jumpers (Ronnie Brewer, Rodney Carney, etc.) and a veteran big then it would make a whole lot more sense to me. It would set them up for a lot of cap room in two years, and they'd still be a competitive team that could get to the conference finals.

With a new CBA in a year that might reconstruct things completely, I just don't think very many competent GMs or owners should be shelling out long term money to role players unless they are that close to a championship.

I agree. And i'd rub one out if we could get Ronnie Brewer.

[hater]

LOL Dallas

[vy65]

When you're rich as shit, I don't think you care about a couple hundred thousand in taxes. I wonder what the endorsement opportunities are for a place like LA vs dallas

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I agree. And i'd rub one out if we could get Ronnie Brewer.


:lol he'd be the perfect fit on Dallas.

I don't understand why so many owners and GMs repeat the mistake of giving role players 4-5 year, lucrative contracts when they're team isn't a contender either way, yet so many fans who have no experience GMing a team just know by following the NBA that those contracts always become a pain in the ass. Even someone like Raja Bell who got a 5 year deal that looked like a steal at first was playing well below contract value by his 4th year.

[ohmwrecker]

Just for perspective's sake, here are some reasons why Dallas sucks:

1. It is totally devoid of culture & substance
2. full of pretentious, plastic people
3. Jerry Jones
4. corrupt local government
5. shitty public school system
6. Mark Cuban
7. Hwy system = deathtrap
8. the rest of the Metroplex is populated by culturally retarded redneck NASCAR fans
9. apathetic, bandwagon sports fans (present company excluded, of course)
10. Dallas' greatest contribution to society? Cheerleader uniforms.

[SenorSpur]

One heartening thing is that Cuban seems to FINALLY be learning from his mistakes. The holdup in the Al Jefferson deal was Dallas' reluctance to part with two firsts (I know we perpetually draft in the twenties but we acquired Josh Howard and Roddy B that way), along with Minnesota refusing to take back a bad contract. The cap and luxury tax hit for acquiring Big Al was more than Cuban was willing to stomach. He didn't want to pay dollar for dollar lux tax for a guy who would only be playing 28 minutes a game.

We haven't added talent this summer, but we have added some length to the roster and acquired some financial flexibility. The Tyson Chandler trade isn't a home run, but probably a solid single. Got rid of two bad contracts and acquired defensive length in the frontline with a guy playing for his next contract.

Very prudent on the part of Cuban to avoid those same mistakes. Maybe he is learning?

[Booharv]

As a person who has never set foot in Texas (I became a Spur fan as a kid from those Gay Mr. Robinson's neighborhood commercials), I can only guess that black people assume its full of white country people and blacks don't like associating with cowboy types or southerners a lot. That's my guess. Although you would think word of mouth from the players that did actually play there would spread aound.

[SenorSpur]

I think Cuban has gotten better when it comes to savvy. He got a better player than Damp and dumped two bad contracts on the Bobcats yesterday. Dallas now has $29 million in expirings if another elite player comes available. But his loyalty to Donnie is mystifying.

I know that Chandler is one of those expiring contracts the Mavs have. Who is the other? I'm too lazy to look it up myself. :rollin

[Goran Dragic]

Caron Butler and Stephenson

[Findog]

As a person who has never set foot in Texas (I became a Spur fan as a kid from those Gay Mr. Robinson's neighborhood commercials), I can only guess that black people assume its full of white country people and blacks don't like associating with cowboy types or southerners a lot. That's my guess. Although you would think word of mouth from the players that did actually play there would spread aound.

No, I think the word is out on Dallas that it's not some cornpone backwater.

[Goran Dragic]

You never know the way people talk about Dallas on this site like it's a right wing city.

[Findog]

You never know the way people talk about Dallas on this site like it's a right wing city.

So right-wing that it went for Obama and Kerry in the last two presidential elections. North Dallas is right-wing, conservative christian suckitude, but no black NBA player would ever go as far north as Plano.

[Warlord23]

IMO there are 2 kinds of players -
1. Those who primarily want to win and
2. Those who want to make a lot of money without having any competitive objectives (yes, this latter category does exist thanks to the player-friendly CBA).

For category 1, Dallas represents a nice city with a good owner etc, but they know that the Dallas FO is mediocre, although they have deep pockets. They know that while expectations will always be high, the team hasn't been constructed well enough (except 2006), and will likely struggle to build a winner in the future. Look at the Mavs' moves since reaching the Finals (the next part of this post is actually copied from a Mav fan poster on another site):

06-07
sign Devean George
sign Greg Buckner
sign Pops-Mensa Bonsu (D-League)
draft Mo Ager (D-League)
Result: 1st round exit to GSW
07-08
re-sign Devean George
sign Eddie Jones
re-sign Stackhouse (3yrs @ > MLE)
draft Fazekas (D-League, waived)
Result: 1st round exit to NOH
08-09
trade Devin Harris, 2 first rounders, $3MM for Jason Kidd, Antoine Wright
sign Diop @ MLE for 5 years
Fire Avery
Hire Carlisle
Result: 2nd round exit to DEN
09-10
trade Devean George and Wright for Marion + filler
trade Howard, Gooden, Singleton, Ross for Butler, Haywood Stevenson
trade Stackhouse for Buckner
trade some trash for Najera
Result: 1st round exit to SAS

Activity <> Achievement. Players probably sense that Cuban and Donnie enjoy shaking things up but it doesn't normally work. Also, they may be traded out if they fail to win a title, even if they had played their role well enough (e.g. Devin Harris. The Mavs actually draft well, but apart from that they have underachieved as a front office.

For category 2 players (the likes of Corey Maggette, Jerome James, Al Harrington et al), losing has never been a problem. They are very happy taking money from the Clippers or the Knicks knowing that the team is not going to contend anyway. They probably prefer earning their guaranteed money without having any kind of pressure to contend. IMO they would prefer to sign with the Sixers or Wizards and coast through a losing season.

[vy65]

Where's Preston Hollow? Isn't that in Highland Park somewhere?

[Goran Dragic]

So right-wing that it went for Obama and Kerry in the last two presidential elections. North Dallas is right-wing, conservative christian suckitude, but no black NBA player would ever go as far north as Plano.


You didn't catch the sarcasm in that post :lol

[Findog]

You didn't catch the sarcasm in that post :lol

No, I got it. I guess I was just stating the obvious.

[Findog]

Where's Preston Hollow? Isn't that in Highland Park somewhere?

Tollway and Walnut Hill, just north of Northwest Highway and Love Field.

[Findog]

Why are there 26 guests viewing this thread? Is it linked somewhere else?

[SenorSpur]

So right-wing that it went for Obama and Kerry in the last two presidential elections. North Dallas is right-wing, conservative christian suckitude, but no black NBA player would ever go as far north as Plano.

Ex-Mav Popeye Jones does. I see him out carousing the bountiful Plano nightlife all the time. And supposedly Terry lives in Frisco.

[vy65]

Doesn't George Bush live there? Or is that a rumor?

I don't know enough about Dallas's political leanings, but it doesn't bode well for the citys liberal image when you name a major highway the President George Bush Tollway, and then refuse to rename Industrial Blvd. "Ceaser Chavez"

[Findog]

Ex-Mav Popeye Jones does. I see him out carousing the bountiful Plano nightlife all the time. And supposedly Terry lives in Frisco.

Well they are older guys who have put down roots here. If I had Terry's money I would live in Kessler Park, not mothereffing Frisco.

[Findog]

Doesn't George Bush live there? Or is that a rumor?

I don't know enough about Dallas's political leanings, but it doesn't bode well for the citys liberal image when you name a major highway the President George Bush Tollway, and then refuse to rename Industrial Blvd. "Ceaser Chavez"

Dallas city proper is liberal. The surrounding DFW area leans a bit to the conservative side.

[vy65]

Fair enough, I thought you were saying more of the metroplex was liberal

[coyotes_geek]

The mavs problems with attracting free agents are about the franchise and the guy who owns it, not the city.

1. There's no tradition of winning there. A decade's worth of 50+ win seasons are all overshadowed by embarrassing playoff disappointments.
2. The mavs are constantly shaking up the roster with trades. I'm sure some free agents are leery about making long term commitments to a team that is constantly turning over it's roster. Guys have to be wondering whether a 5 year commitment to the mavs means they'll be stuck spending 3 or 4 of those years playing somewhere else.
3. The maverick alumni club, guys like Nash/Finley/Nellie/Avery, sure aren't going out of their way to say a bunch of nice things about their tenures working for Mark Cuban. One has to wonder if Cuban is one of those guys who is easy to get along with when he likes you, but will stab you in the back once he thinks he doesn't need you any more.

[Findog]

The mavs problems with attracting free agents are about the franchise and the guy who owns it, not the city.

1. There's no tradition of winning there. A decade's worth of 50+ win seasons are all overshadowed by embarrassing playoff disappointments.
2. The mavs are constantly shaking up the roster with trades. I'm sure some free agents are leery about making long term commitments to a team that is constantly turning over it's roster. Guys have to be wondering whether a 5 year commitment to the mavs means they'll be stuck spending 3 or 4 of those years playing somewhere else.
3. The maverick alumni club, guys like Nash/Finley/Nellie/Avery, sure aren't going out of their way to say a bunch of nice things about their tenures working for Mark Cuban. One has to wonder if Cuban is one of those guys who is easy to get along with when he likes you, but will stab you in the back once he thinks he doesn't need you any more.

I am sadly forced to agree with a lot of this. As much as Cuban is a part of the solution with his deep pockets and his passion and commitment to winning, he is also a part of the problem with his way of doing things. I'd love for him to hire Pritchard and then sit back and count his money.

[Fpoonsie]

Not sure, tbh. I've grown to love the D/FW. There's plenty of things to do and surrounding cities to do them in not far at all from downtown. There's plenty of ritzy areas to flaunt obscene wealth and, maybe it's simply due to the fact that I live in Denton, but the area has never struck me as off-puttingly conservative. To the contrary, actually...

...not to say that liberalism is necessarily off-putting either, TWU and UNT notwithstanding, of course.

[Goran Dragic]

Outside of a few teams, everyone has the same problem drawing marquee players Dallas does. Truth be told, luck is more important than any other part of winning a championship. There's no proven method that leads to getting players who can be the alpha dog of a contending team. Nothing about the city of Boston was why they got KG for pennies on the dollar. Nothing about the city of Phoenix was why they got Barkley for pennies on the dollar or why they didn't get the 1st overall pick in 1969. Nothing about the city of San Antonio is why they got the 1st overall pick in 1997. Being the only team with enough cap room and being the team with the most loyal player was way more important to getting Bosh and Lebron than the city of Miami itself. Unless you're the Lakers and you have a knack for drawing franchise players, you have only so much control over who your team can get.

[SenorSpur]

Well they are older guys who have put down roots here. If I had Terry's money I would live in Kessler Park, not mothereffing Frisco.

Hey don't dog out Frisco. That's my turf. :lol

[SenorSpur]

Dallas city proper is liberal. The surrounding DFW area leans a bit to the conservative side.

The truth!

[picc84]

As an organization, only the Clippers surpass Dallas in magnitude of the stench of failure surrounding the franchise. Even just as a fan, the words 'Dallas Mavericks' have become synonymous with failure and choking. So I can only imagine the way the players view it. That, and the pouty, rambunctious, and almost flamboyant nature of Mark Cuban. The Mavs are a spectacle....and not in a good way. Every time we enter a season the question is not "Will the Mavs get over the hump?", its "How will the Mavs embarrass themselves this year?".

Nothing against the Mavs, personally. I honestly have nothing against them at all.

Thats my honest opinion why Dallas is never a free agent hotbed. The city is probably great, I dont know i've never been there, but it seems like it would be a good city. They've got the Cowboys there, there are no shortages of attractive women from what I hear, the weather is great, etc.

Its the stench of failure and the tradition of the team and its owner losing in the most remarkable ways possible that keeps players away.

[Findog]

As an organization, only the Clippers surpass Dallas in magnitude of the stench of failure surrounding the franchise. .

Okay, now we have the dumb opinion...or the spot-fucking-on opinion if it were still 1998.

[ElNono]

And it rains all the time. Two big strikes against it if you're a black NBA player. But some former Trailblazers have appreciated what Portland has to offer and stick around after retirement - see David Halberstam's "Breaks of the Game."

I lived in Portland for almost a year and I can say it's one of the prettiest cities in the US. I loved it there. Sure, it rains quite a bit, but you have the Pacific beaches for the summer and skiing in the winter. There's a lot of green there, plenty of parks, etc. Nightlife was good enough.

[Findog]

I lived in Portland for almost a year and I can say it's one of the prettiest cities in the US. I loved it there. Sure, it rains quite a bit, but you have the Pacific beaches for the summer and skiing in the winter. There's a lot of green there, plenty of parks, etc. Nightlife was good enough.

Yeah, but for your typical NBA player, it's a lily-white town that rains nonstop in the winter. They don't care about that other stuff.

[Kwame Brown]

I lived in Portland for almost a year and I can say it's one of the prettiest cities in the US. I loved it there. Sure, it rains quite a bit, but you have the Pacific beaches for the summer and skiing in the winter. There's a lot of green there, plenty of parks, etc. Nightlife was good enough.

Nigga get yo ass outta here with that scenic shit.

We just care 'bout our money and our green!:greedy

[ElNono]

lol Kwame... talk about robbing money...

[ElNono]

Yeah, but for your typical NBA player, it's a lily-white town that rains nonstop in the winter. They don't care about that other stuff.

Hey, I'm just sayin'. Obviously they also have pretty decent weed too if you remember the Jailblazers... :lol

[Findog]

Frisco, Plano, Southlake, Coppell, and Flower Mound are all great places to live. Rich white people, but still.. very nice.

I guess if you like big box retail, chain restaurants and track housing that is exactly the same as everywhere else. I wouldn't even begin to know how to differentiate between them.

[Findog]

Obviously they also have pretty decent weed too if you remember the Jailblazers... :lol

How did an NBA franchise fail in Vancouver? That I'll never understand. It's physically gorgeous and you can go into a hash bar and smoke the most potent, high-quality shit.

Steve Francis was a fucking moron. I know what I'd have chosen if given the choice.

[Findog]

is a native of san antonio uttering these words?

The only things San Antonio have going for it is good Tex-Mex and the fact that it's only 70 miles from Austin.

[ElNono]

The mavs problems with attracting free agents are about the franchise and the guy who owns it, not the city.

1. There's no tradition of winning there. A decade's worth of 50+ win seasons are all overshadowed by embarrassing playoff disappointments.
2. The mavs are constantly shaking up the roster with trades. I'm sure some free agents are leery about making long term commitments to a team that is constantly turning over it's roster. Guys have to be wondering whether a 5 year commitment to the mavs means they'll be stuck spending 3 or 4 of those years playing somewhere else.
3. The maverick alumni club, guys like Nash/Finley/Nellie/Avery, sure aren't going out of their way to say a bunch of nice things about their tenures working for Mark Cuban. One has to wonder if Cuban is one of those guys who is easy to get along with when he likes you, but will stab you in the back once he thinks he doesn't need you any more.

This is spot on. What's the point of relocating in Dallas if you don't know when you're going to end up on Cubes bad side or needing to pack your shit because of a last minute trade?

[ElNono]

The only things San Antonio have going for it is good Tex-Mex and the fact that it's only 70 miles from Austin.

With SA it always been about playing next to our core and see if you could coattail to a ring. It has nothing to do with the city. As our core gets older and less relevant that's going away. That's why most people think TP is not going to stick around after this season.

[monosylab1k]

What a mesmerizing skyline. Manhattanization of TX tbh

beats turning a Texas monument like the Alamo into a giant fucking gift shop.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

The only things San Antonio have going for it is good Tex-Mex and the fact that it's only 70 miles from Austin.


Don't forget a winning tradition and the fans actually cheer for their damn team.

[vy65]

I fail to see your point. Both fucking suck.

[Findog]

Don't forget a winning tradition and the fans actually cheer for their damn team.

Fans in the 300 sections in Dallas are just as much the good, supportive fans as the ones in San Antonio.

[dickface]

Don't forget a winning tradition and the fans actually cheer for their damn team.

Yeah they're so dedicated they never have trouble selling out playoff games :lmao

[Muser]

Fans in the 300 sections in Dallas are just as much the good, supportive fans as the ones in San Antonio.

Ignore gray named spurs fan, he's probably never been to a live NBA game.

[ElNono]

Coke-snorting lower-level faux fans exist on every city...

[OC Lakerfan]

Humidity sucks.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

Fans in the 300 sections in Dallas are just as much the good, supportive fans as the ones in San Antonio.


I was kidding.

[cd98]

Free agents spurning Dallas is less about the city and more about the owner/franchise.

Mark Cuban has fueded publicly with players, which probably doesn't play well. Plus, Dallas lacks stability. They will turn over their roster on a whim. They try to fast track everything, which leads to an incompatible roster.

Look at their roster right now. They have five 7 footers. Why? You have Chandler going in needing to have a strong season (last year of contract) to get $$$, and yet you have Haywood (just signed) that thinks the starting job belongs to him. I have a bad feeling about their team chemistry this year.

[cd98]

Responding to my last post, look at it this way: Would Haywood have resigned with Dallas if he knew they were going to trade for Chandler?

They seem to do that kind of stuff more than any other team, which means FAs may not trust them. Cuban and Nelson are too fickle, and Cuban has the money to revamp his team every 5 months.

[Findog]

Responding to my last post, look at it this way: Would Haywood have resigned with Dallas if he knew they were going to trade for Chandler?

They seem to do that kind of stuff more than any other team, which means FAs may not trust them. Cuban and Nelson are too fickle, and Cuban has the money to revamp his team every 5 months.

Would Haywood resign for $65 million, knowing that they just took on a $12 million expiring and have a raging hard-on for Chris Paul, who they hold onto hope will go on the trading block at some point? Yeah, I think he would.

[Ginobili2Duncan]

Ignore gray named spurs fan, he's probably never been to a live NBA game.


I went to a lot of Spurs games when I used to live there. Now that I'm in Florida, I sometimes make the 2 hour drive to Amway Arena.

[clambake]

why does anyone think they'll start chandler ahead of haywood? (provided they are both still in dallas)

[easy7]

The only things San Antonio have going for it is good Tex-Mex and the fact that it's only 70 miles from Austin.

You forgot Fiesta...

[dickface]

why does anyone think they'll start chandler ahead of haywood? (provided they are both still in dallas)

a healthy chandler is better than haywood.

lol @ healthy chandler.

[ElNono]

Would Haywood resign for $65 million, knowing that they just took on a $12 million expiring and have a raging hard-on for Chris Paul, who they hold onto hope will go on the trading block at some point? Yeah, I think he would.

The problem is that Haywood might end up being part of a package on a S&T for CP3...

[cd98]

Would Haywood resign for $65 million, knowing that they just took on a $12 million expiring and have a raging hard-on for Chris Paul, who they hold onto hope will go on the trading block at some point? Yeah, I think he would.

Missing the point, you are. He can get money from a number of teams. He won't be happy if he's sitting on the bench and playing limited minutes. He was whining in the playoffs and he'd only been with the team a few months. Imagine what could happen as he's battling with Chandler for minutes.

Dallas was never close to getting Chris Paul, Lebron, Bosh, or anyone else.

[Goran Dragic]

Don't forget a winning tradition and the fans actually cheer for their damn team.


lol winning tradition. If Dallas got the 1st overall pick in 1997 instead of San Antonio, they'd be the team with the "winning tradition".

[RoddyBukkake]

Dallas city proper is liberal. The surrounding DFW area leans a bit to the conservative side.

I think the city is fiscally liberal aka "gimme da money whitey!" http://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/157489e170cd7310.gif but socially conservative. There are plenty of areas in the city limits where you still can't buy any alcohol whatsoever.

[badfish22]

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/marines-5.jpg


:cry they would have made a great Spur starting 5

[Goran Dragic]

^:lmao

[badfish22]

http://www.writespirit.net/inspirational_talks/political/martin_luther_king_talks/martin-luther-king2.jpg

:cry spur written all over him

[Goran Dragic]

http://www.twolia.com/blogs/zoboxrox/files/2008/12/adolf_hitler_portrait.jpg

:cry the perfect Maverick or Sun :cry:cry

[Magdalena M]

But what is so terrible about Dallas:

- no state income tax
- top five media market
- Dallas women are hot
- good enough nightlife by NBA players standards
- warm-weather climate when the NBA season spans the winter
- owner who treats his players well, almost to the point of coddling and enabling lack of accountability
- make your jokes about first-round exits and choking, but after 10 years, the Mavs have a tradition now of winning and being competitive. That sure beats plying your trade for the Clippers, Kings or Wolves.


Can somebody help me out here?

Wait... are you for or against??

[The Gemini Method]

I watched an episode of The First 48 the other day and it featured a murder somewhere in Dallas. Now, a murder isn't all that uncommon from where I'm from--but the fact that the guy supposedly sliced his victim up with a ninja sword and then proceeded to use his ATM/Debit/POS card to buy a PS2 was definitely an interesting twist. I mean, why murder someone and but a PS2???

[badfish22]

http://www.twolia.com/blogs/zoboxrox/files/2008/12/adolf_hitler_portrait.jpg

:cry the perfect Maverick or Sun :cry:cry

:lmao thats the exact direction I was just about to take.

[MavDynasty]

http://www.twolia.com/blogs/zoboxrox/files/2008/12/adolf_hitler_portrait.jpg

:cry the perfect Maverick or Sun :cry:cry

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[ElNono]

http://www.twolia.com/blogs/zoboxrox/files/2008/12/adolf_hitler_portrait.jpg


I am actually part German :lol

Is that your grandpa?

[Goran Dragic]

:lol I'm 1/16th German. Nice try though.

[ElNono]

:lol I'm 1/16th German. Nice try though.

:lol

[Goran Dragic]

Plus I don't even think Hitler was German :lol

[ohmwrecker]

Plus I don't even think Hitler was German :lol

He was Austrian. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[ElNono]

He was Austrian. Like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Now I understand what's happening with California... :lol

[dirk4mvp]

badfish and goran have won this thread.

[peteee]

the Mavs GM is a cunt so is the headcoach. no one wants to work for a moronic cunt you know, so all the Dallas avails are easily beaten.