ChrisMannixSI: RJ Doesn't Have Deal with Spurs

[Man Mountain]

Contrary to some reports, Richard Jefferson does not have any kind of deal in place with Spurs to return for more years at lesser salary 17 minutes ago via web

ChrisMannixSI


I'm told Jefferson is open to returning to SA but his first priority is a long term deal at the best annual salary he can get. 16 minutes ago via web

ChrisMannixSI

http://twitter.com/chrismannixsi

[slick'81]

keep waiting rj

[spursfaninla]

RJ is still holding out hope that he did not fuck himself hoping for more money.

They spurs will basically wait for the offers to dwindle, and then see if they feel like matching.

It does look more and more likely that RJ is not really desired by the Spurs, perhaps?

[timvp]

Hopefully this is true because it gives the Spurs good leverage. RJ's market value is falling by the day so the longer this drags out, the better chance the Spurs can either sign him at a fair price or trade him for something they want.

The worst scenario right now is for the Spurs and RJ to have a wink-wink agreement that was negotiated before the market dried up.




P.S.

If this is true, RJ and his agent were pretty damn dumb to jump out of a $16 million contract with no parachute.

[Russ]

P.S.

If this is true, RJ and his agent were pretty damn dumb to jump out of a $16 million contract with no parachute.

That's why it simply cannot be true.

[timvp]

That's why it simply cannot be true.

Common sense agrees.

But what could RJ and the Spurs be waiting for?

[bigdog]

If that's true, then RJ is an idiot, but of course, it could be a cover up for a possible deal they had worked out or at least somewhat agreed to when he opted out. If he really thinks he's going to get more money, he's lost his mind. I do think Mannix is an idiot, too, though.

[lurker23]

If what matters most to RJ is money (and it sounds like it is), then the Spurs have little incentive to offer him more than $6 million per year. Combined with better raises, that bid is higher than anyone can offer using an MLE, and thus eliminates a lot of teams from contention. If someone bids higher than $6mil/per, then the Spurs can either bid higher (if it's within reason and/or their budget), or use their leverage of better raises to get a nice TE in a S&T.

[timvp]

One more thing to consider: Buford stayed in San Antonio while the rest of the Spurs staff went to Vegas so that Buford could handle the contracts of Splitter and Bonner. Buford now went to Vegas. If the RJ signing was imminent, why didn't they get it done before Buford left?

[Russ]

Common sense agrees.

But what could RJ and the Spurs be waiting for?

The Spurs may be waiting for an out-placement for RJ.

Ditto RJ.

(But the Spurs need to resign RJ unless they have something major in the works that we don't know of.)

[slick'81]

One more thing to consider: Buford stayed in San Antonio while the rest of the Spurs staff went to Vegas so that Buford could handle the contracts of Splitter and Bonner. Buford now went to Vegas. If the RJ signing was imminent, why didn't they get it done before Buford left?


i think its safe to say theres no deal done unless there just being real hush hush which doesnt make any sense.Maybe rj is just waiting for some team to panic and throw some serious jack his way

[bigdog]

One more thing to consider: Buford stayed in San Antonio while the rest of the Spurs staff went to Vegas so that Buford could handle the contracts of Splitter and Bonner. Buford now went to Vegas. If the RJ signing was imminent, why didn't they get it done before Buford left?

True. I'm sure they'd like to resign him but are letting him look at all options before they sign him. By waiting, RJ's being an idiot and letting his price drop, so the Spurs seem to have the leverage there, like you said, unless an idiot team wants to overpay him, like the Clippers.

[timvp]

If what matters most to RJ is money (and it sounds like it is), then the Spurs have little incentive to offer him more than $6 million per year. Combined with better raises, that bid is higher than anyone can offer using an MLE, and thus eliminates a lot of teams from contention. If someone bids higher than $6mil/per, then the Spurs can either bid higher (if it's within reason and/or their budget), or use their leverage of better raises to get a nice TE in a S&T.

Exactly. The Spurs could simply offer a salary starting at the MLE with 10.5% raises. That deal would beat any deal that isn't from a team with salary cap space. And then if a team with salary cap space wants him, you can sign-and-trade him to get a trade exception.

If Mannix is right, the Spurs could string this out and really make RJ look dumb.

[ducks]

I think spurs made a low offer and rj is wanting a better deal
he think someone will give it to him

strange though no teams are rumored at all interst in him

his agent must suck because you would think his agent would like another team atleast interest in him to drive up his price

[Russ]

One more thing to consider: Buford stayed in San Antonio while the rest of the Spurs staff went to Vegas so that Buford could handle the contracts of Splitter and Bonner. Buford now went to Vegas. If the RJ signing was imminent, why didn't they get it done before Buford left?

Could be RJ is a low to no priority . . .

Or, on the opposite end, could be the terms of the RJ signing are already negotiated . . .

[ducks]

spurs should offer incentives in his deal more rebounds per game more $

[ElNono]

One more thing to consider: Buford stayed in San Antonio while the rest of the Spurs staff went to Vegas so that Buford could handle the contracts of Splitter and Bonner. Buford now went to Vegas. If the RJ signing was imminent, why didn't they get it done before Buford left?

Maybe the Spurs already handed him an offer (say $16m/3 seasons) and now they're waiting for RJ to take it or find a better deal...

This is what I mean with lowballing on the other thread...

[bigdog]

I don't think RJ is "low to no priority". All of us and the Spurs know that with what's remaining of the MLE and the LLE, there is no player available that would be anywhere near what RJ could give the Spurs. I'm sure they're just letting him stay on the market until there is no market for him and they just resign him. The Spurs aren't dumb enough to just let him walk without signing him or doing a sign and trade. They're playing this smart if they're doing what I'm thinking.

[Russ]

spurs should offer incentives in his deal more rebounds per game more $

Are incentives still allowed?

[timvp]

In a normal circumstance, I'd be worried about RJ pulling a Stephen Jackson and signing a one-year contract with a bad team to improve his stock. But with a lockout looming, that would be very dangerous for RJ.

[lurker23]

Are incentives still allowed?

Yes. Good examples:

http://blog.shamsports.com/2010/07/changes-in-201011-salaries-due-to.html


If we're talking incentives, I'd like RJ to have some based on 3PT%.

[Russ]

But with a lockout looming, that would be very dangerous for RJ.

Based upon the events of the last year, I'd say getting up in the morning is very dangerous for RJ.

[ElNono]

In a normal circumstance, I'd be worried about RJ pulling a Stephen Jackson and signing a one-year contract with a bad team to improve his stock. But with a lockout looming, that would be very dangerous for RJ.

He just pulled out of $15m guaranteed money... Don't underestimate dumb...

[timvp]

Seriously, pride will have to play a role in this, right? If the best offer RJ has on the table is three years and $18 million, he can't sign that considering he just gave up $16 million over one year.

[ElNono]

Seriously, pride will have to play a role in this, right? If the best offer RJ has on the table is three years and $18 million, he can't sign that considering he just gave up $16 million over one year.

That's what I'm thinking... It will outdo Bonzi and that's quite a feat...

[bigdog]

I wonder what Sprewell is thinking about this right now.

[Russ]

I wonder what Sprewell is thinking about this right now.

Where's Carlisimo, I bet he's thinking.

[slick'81]

rj did it to himself i understand he wants a long term deal but dude will be hard pressed to get that 15.1 unless he pays 2-3 years for a club

[crc21209]

I wish this asshole would just sign here or somewhere else already so we could move on...

[Russ]

I wish this asshole would just sign here or somewhere else already so we could move on...

I think the Spurs are playing this like a Stradivarius, just be patient . . .

[timvp]

Just found this:


Nike Pro City notebook: Richard Jefferson makes his debut

Nike Pro City has played host to plenty of NBA players over the years, from Nate Robinson to Ron Artest to Michael Beasley.

Former New Jersey Nets star Richard Jefferson was the latest standout to join the league. Jefferson, who recently opted out of the final year of his contract with the San Antonio Spurs making him a free agent, scored 11 points on 5-of-16 shooting for Dyckman in its 110-103 victory over defending champion Nike One.

“Awesome, I wish it was sanctioned by the league,” he said of his experience at Nike Pro City. “It was good competition – great competition. I’ve only been working out for two or three days and these guys were really getting up and down the court.”

NBA free agent Richard Jefferson enjoyed his first taste of Nike Pro City on Tuesday night.

NBA free agent Richard Jefferson enjoyed his first taste of Nike Pro City on Tuesday night.

Jefferson, who reached two NBA finals with the Nets, was invited to play with Dyckman by its coach, Milton Lee, who has worked him out in previous summers. As for his future in the NBA, Jefferson said he was “figuring out things.” When asked if he would consider coming back to the Nets or signing with the Knicks, he declined comment.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nike_pro_city_notebook_richard_jefferson_n5dqd0vWE HHVd3AHPSSgWL


That is full of lols

First of all, he went 5-for-16 against no-names? Not exactly helping his already free-falling stock.

Second, he has only been working out two or three days? I thought RJ and Pop were locked in a gym all summer working on his game :lol

"Figuring things out" doesn't sound like someone who has a sizable offer on the table.

Oh and the "no comment" was pretty damn funny too :rollin

[slick'81]

no one wants him lol

get ur mind right rj

[Russ]

Just found this:



That is full of lols

First of all, he went 5-for-16 against no-names? Not exactly helping his already free-falling stock.

Second, he has only been working out two or three days? I thought RJ and Pop were locked in a gym all summer working on his game :lol

"Figuring things out" doesn't sound like someone who has a sizable offer on the table.

Oh and the "no comment" was pretty damn funny too :rollin

It sounds like something from the Onion.

[timvp]

It sounds like something from the Onion.

Yeah I seriously had to double check to make sure it's real.

[angelbelow]

Would this crush RJs morale though? Would he even be motivated to get better or just play the way he always does? His confidence is probably low seeing that no team is willing to offer him the contract he expects.. so if hes forced to just sign a long term 6 million dollar contract with the spurs.. is that version of RJ, one that is arguably less motivated than the one that we acquired last year, even worth the deal?

At 6 million.. I still think we should but I think its becoming more a risk=reward scenario.

[ElNono]

Second, he has only been working out two or three days? I thought RJ and Pop were locked in a gym all summer working on his game :lol

I lol'ed at this... so much for the 'training with Pop' story...
Straight from the horse's mouth too.

[bigdog]

Why would RJ even admit to barely working out? No team is going to want him, haha.

If this is just a HUGE CIA plot by the Spurs and RJ, I'm going to fall over and die. This is ridiculous.

[ElNono]

That kind of work ethic will surely land you a big contract... :lmao

I'm sure his agent was calling him as soon as he read that and told him to shut up...

[Russ]

Why would RJ even admit to barely working out?

Aftter going 5-16 in a beer league, he might want to claim he hasn't been working out. :)

[ElNono]

Would this crush RJs morale though? Would he even be motivated to get better or just play the way he always does? His confidence is probably low seeing that no team is willing to offer him the contract he expects.. so if hes forced to just sign a long term 6 million dollar contract with the spurs.. is that version of RJ, one that is arguably less motivated than the one that we acquired last year, even worth the deal?

At 6 million.. I still think we should but I think its becoming more a risk=reward scenario.

I would think he would want to prove everyone wrong... But this is RJ we're talking about here. Soft as they come.

[lurker23]

WTH? Other than LeBron's public image, has anyone's stock in the NBA dropped this much in 12 months?

[Russ]

WTH? Other than LeBron's public image, has anyone's stock in the NBA dropped this much in 12 months?

Maybe "The Daddy."

[slick'81]

WTH? Other than LeBron's public image, has anyone's stock in the NBA dropped this much in 12 months?


sadly no and coming off his horrendous season he opts out walks away from the dough and expects what!?!?

[BobEX]

Seriously, pride will have to play a role in this, right? If the best offer RJ has on the table is three years and $18 million, he can't sign that considering he just gave up $16 million over one year.

I wonder how much he regrets opting out of that contract now. If his new contract doesn't average at least $9-10M a year then the decision to opt-out will have been a complete disaster.

[ElNono]

lol Dick playing for Dyckman :rollin

You can't make this shit up...

[timvp]

lol Dick playing for Dyckman :rollin

You can't make this shit up...

I didn't even catch that :lmao

The Onion should really just copy and paste that article onto their site.

[ElNono]

I didn't even catch that :lmao

The Onion should really just copy and paste that article onto their site.

Great find, sir!

[bigdog]

lol Dick playing for Dyckman :rollin

You can't make this shit up...

:lmao Wow, that's hilarious.

[PM5K]

Bottom line is this cat sucks unless he's playing with someone that can spoon feed him like Steve Nash or Jason Kidd.

[Obstructed_View]

Common sense agrees.

But what could RJ and the Spurs be waiting for?

Maybe they did have a wink wink agreement and RJ and his agent planned to pull a Boozer on the Spurs, the only difference is, the phone ain't a ringin'.

[bigdog]

Bottom line is this cat sucks unless he's playing with someone that can spoon feed him like Steve Nash or Jason Kidd.

He had no one spoon-feeding him in Milwaukee.

[tuncaboylu]

Waiting game was risky but it seems that we waited enough. I think we should offer a 4 years 30M contract to RJ. It's more than wny MLE offer of another team and long enough.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

RJ may not have many options at this time but neither do the Spurs. If RJ ends up signing with another team the Spurs will have a huge hole to fill at SF. This team is not a contender without RJ. Spurs just need to pay the man and get this team ready for the season.

[5in10]

Waiting game was risky but it seems that we waited enough. I think we should offer a 4 years 30M contract to RJ. It's more than wny MLE offer of another team and long enough.

That is crazy talk!

[Duncan2177]

Chandler for Jefferson?

[Obstructed_View]

I remember about this time a year ago everyone wanted him to opt out so he could sign a long term deal worth about 9 million a year.

How things change.

Yeah people thought Orlando giving Grant Hill a contract was a good idea too. Hindsight.

[tuncaboylu]

That is crazy talk!

Why do you think so?

MLE is 5 years 35 and tones of team can offer it. 4 years 30M is a bargain price for RJ and if you offer less than that money to RJ, he can sign elsewhere.

What will we do in that case? Can you play SF 5in10? Would you like to be our starter SF after RJ leaves?

[ace3g]

This can only be great news, and ends in a couple of scenarios:

1. Spurs wait out the market and force RJ to sign a below avg contract

2. By waiting a team that still needs a SF in FA goes after RJ and the Spurs do a sign and trade for something the Spurs want from that team.

3. Spurs get a trade exception for RJ

[alchemist]

just remembered this...

"So you figure it out. If you're able to get four years and 40 (million dollars by opting out) from someone, it's like, 'OK, I did lose out on 15 (million dollars). But I'm going to get basically a $25 million extension.' Those are things that you think of at the end of the season.''
http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/04/11/spurs-jefferson-pondering-possibility-of-opting-out-of-contract/

RJ is not having a great summer...again

[5in10]

Why do you think so?

MLE is 5 years 35 and tones of team can offer it. 4 years 30M is a bargain price for RJ and if you offer less than that money to RJ, he can sign elsewhere.

What will we do in that case? Can you play SF 5in10? Would you like to be our starter SF after RJ leaves?

I'm not saying I don't want to resign Jefferson. I just think that price is too high. You first wait to see what other teams offer and than match or raise accordingly, if in fact the spurs want him at all.

[tuncaboylu]

This can only be great news, and ends in a couple of scenarios:

1. Spurs wait out the market and force RJ to sign a below avg contract

2. By waiting a team that still needs a SF in FA goes after RJ and the Spurs do a sign and trade for something the Spurs want from that team.

3. Spurs get a trade exception for RJ


I can agree with 1 and 3, but not 2.

If a team is going to sign with RJ, it's not possible that team has something we want at return. We need a decent SF too much and a team who has a decent SF wouldn't sign a contract with RJ.

[tuncaboylu]

I'm not saying I don't want to resign Jefferson. I just think that price is too high. You first wait to see what other teams offer and than match or raise accordingly, if in fact the spurs want him at all.

Yes we can wait until the other teams offers, but we should think MLE as minimum offer to him. Too many teams didn't use their MLE at the moment and one of them can do it.

By the way, i don't think that 4 years 30M is too much for RJ. Come on guys, Bonner just signed 4 years 16M, Frye signed 5 years 30M and Lowry signed 4 years 24M offer sheet(Which is estimated to be matched by Rockets).

And there is a danger, what happens if RJ accepts another teams MLE offer without asking anything to Spurs? We can't handle that case.

[Borosai]

Don't force a small Dick into a large hole: all-around dissatisfaction is guaranteed.

[Spursfan 87]

What kind of person opts out of a $16M after a disappointing season? he must be pretty dumb, no wonder he could not figured out the Spurs's system.

[ezau]

RJ may not have many options at this time but neither do the Spurs. If RJ ends up signing with another team the Spurs will have a huge hole to fill at SF. This team is not a contender without RJ. Spurs just need to pay the man and get this team ready for the season.

Are we a contender with RJ?

[Danny.Zhu]

How many teams left can write a contract bigger than MLE to RJ?

[Kindergarten Cop]

How many teams left can write a contract bigger than MLE to RJ?

The Clippers.

[objective]

First of all, he went 5-for-16 against no-names? Not exactly helping his already free-falling stock.

Second, he has only been working out two or three days? I thought RJ and Pop were locked in a gym all summer working on his game :lol

"Figuring things out" doesn't sound like someone who has a sizable offer on the table.

Oh and the "no comment" was pretty damn funny too :rollin

:lol

To me what was striking wasn't his bad shooting but how gassed he was by his comments.

We all know he is 30 years old and already declining athletically but he couldn't hang with the up and downs of a rec league.

Come on. The wheels might be falling off, that 9 points a game in the playoffs could be the norm from here on out.

[lurker23]

How many teams left can write a contract bigger than MLE to RJ?


The Clippers.

Also the Kings and Wizards, I think.

[venitian navigator]

mmmmh the fact that Hairston doesn't play summer league 'cause the f.o. "already knows and like what he can bring" and the fact that Gee is playing good in summer league could be clues that R.J. is coming out of S.A. plans...in favor of a sf that's more a shooter than a slasher (so more a Miller/Butler kind). The abilities of hairtson and Gee are qwuite the same of the ones of R.J. (obviously, for now, at a lower level, expecially considering playing experience) : both are more slashers than shooters.

So, at this point, the F.O. could be inclined to look for a trade excepion, already exckluding to re-sign R.J....if that's true, maybe they should cooperate with R.J. in finding him the best offer possible (and R.J. grateful for this, could compensate asking his "new team" to sign him via sign and trade for giving Spurs cap space to operate with...or a player they think another team could trade feeling R.J. is better suited for their 'laying style....Ariza anyone?).

[angelbelow]

Also the Kings and Wizards, I think.

Wizards COULD use him but they are probably more interested in rebuilding. If they really wanted a vet SF they might have just resigned J. Ho. Also they're probably going try and unload Agent Zero and kick off the rebuilding process.

Kings would be crazy to bring RJ in, they have a crowded front court now with Casspi, Green, Garcia, Udoka (=p), Landry, Thompson, their duo rookies at center and Dalembert.

So all in all I think we have a great shot at low balling RJ lol.

[mountainballer]

I think there is a pretty logical overall scenario.
first off, this scenario can and did only happen because it's 2010 and NBA faces the big unknown in 2011.
if it was 2009, RJ would decide to play his last year at 16 million and assume that in 2010 he will sign his last long term contract in the MLE region for 4 or 5 years. (which is realistic at 30. a bit like the Marion situation)

this year is totally different. he knows he can take the 16M and play the final year, but there is a good chance he won't get a contract at all in 2011, when a: the lockout happens and the result of the lockout will be a completely new CBA. (with far disadvantageous salary rules for the players). and b: his 2nd year with the Spurs is even worse and so his stock goes farther south. (a realistic risk for him and he knows)

so, what to do? first step, he does the Spurs a favor to opt out. Spurs save a lot of money immediately by lux tax implications alone. the favor from the Spurs is, that they offer him a long term contract, likely exactly full MLE. (5 years/33 million). that's 17 more in guaranteed money that his 2010-11 salary and RJ can't be sure that he gets this 17 million in 2011.
this offer stays on the table and the 2nd part of the deal is, that RJ is looking if he can get a better deal from a team with cap space or a full MLE deal from a team he thinks is a better fit or offers a more prominent role.
(he knows his role with the Spurs won't increase much next season, it will rather go down with Tiago, a development of Hill and Blair and a even possible good performance by Anderson)
but this search takes time, especially considering he isn't a premium FA any more.
maybe they have a deadline agreed like end of July? (would give the Spurs still time to find a replacement if he leaves).
the top FAs have all agreed now, so the right negotiation time for a FA like RJ starts right now.
it sounds strange, but the situation is still a win win plot for both, however it turns out.
if he leaves, the Spurs will have saved a boatload of money. (salary and tax). even by coming out short of a talented wing, this is the better end of the situation. the replacement of RJ (let's guess: a combo of James Jones and James Anderson) might not be much worse.
if he stays, the Spurs have a player, who get pretty much what he is worth. (even a RJ who isn't a perfect fit, he is worth the MLE)
Jefferson get's significantly more guaranteed money and the chance to do even better, if he finds a team that pays more.
Spurs might also likley have offered to agree to any sign and trade, if RJ finds such a team.

bottom line: this scenario will need some more weeks till we learn how it finally turns out.

[spursbird]

I just wonder why Dick can average 19+ pts in Bucks uniform. No Kidd or Nash there. And why he suck so much this season.

[Blackjack]

I just wonder why Dick can average 19+ pts in Bucks uniform. No Kidd or Nash there. And why he suck so much this season.

Because somebody has to score the points on a terrible, depleted team.

This situation is a win-win as far as I'm concerned, and mountainballer's right on with his assessment of the timetable.

I expect RJ to be back on the team at a much better rate but if he's not, I can't see him leaving without a sign-and-trade. He needs the Spurs as much or more than they need him.

And besides, what is Mannix really reporting ... that there's no contract finished? Maybe that RJ hasn't agreed to terms? There's either a MLE-type contract on the table (probably a little more annually) or the Spurs are letting him find his market. And since, again, he needs them as much they need him, I just don't see much if any news being made here. James Anderson doesn't have a contract either!

[venitian navigator]

Clippers are near to sign Mc Grady.
Frankly, I thgink that RJ could be perfect for their playing style, and a more reliable and durable option...
If we can work a sign and trade maybe that's the moment to do it...like, for example, a five years starting at 8 miliions and decreasing...(total, 33/35 millions)

an 8 millions trade exception could be more than enough to come back in the market and look for the pieces that could be the best fit for our team...

[Blackjack]

I only need a TE for $5M, Kahn's number and a Nando DeColo mixtape.


http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/martell_webster.jpg

Do it . . .

[mountainballer]

I only need a TE for $5M, Kahn's number and a Nando DeColo mixtape.


http://www.nba.com/media/playerfile/martell_webster.jpg

Do it . . .

:toast
that's the way.
just send him the link to our Nando thread and Kahn will trow in a pick.

[Obstructed_View]

I just wonder why Dick can average 19+ pts in Bucks uniform. No Kidd or Nash there. And why he suck so much this season.

Check out his stats. It's all in shot attempts. If you took last season with the Spurs and gave RJ the same number of shots he had per game the season before he scores almost 18 points per game with no additional free throw attempts, no additional three pointers and the exact same field goal percentage.

That is, if my math is correct at this hour of the morning. :)

This was the warning from many when the Spurs originally acquired RJ, that he needs shot attempts to be productive, shot attempts he wasn't going to get as a Spur. Hell, I've said a dozen times that I'd have been happy with the numbers he put up this season if he could have done them every game. The problem was that he'd score 2 points a couple games in a row and then score 20 the third night.

[will_spurs]

I think there is a pretty logical overall scenario.

I think you got it right.

A few other things to remember: he said he wanted 4y/$40m, that's obviously again the negotiation game through the media.

I don't think it would be good for the Spurs to lowball him, because whichever way they lowball him, that would mean paying as much for him for 4 years than he would have gotten in 1. So he might decide to spread his effort accordingly. I don't think it helps at all to have disgruntled players in a team. A bad ambiance in the locker room will kill a team's chances much faster than a couple of scrubs at the end of the bench. Also, it's bad karma.

I agree that RJ is doing the Spurs a big favor, and might be doing them another one by e.g. asking for a S&T with another team, so there's no reason to try and lowball him.

Finally one last thing: it could be that the Spurs told him they'd resign him for at least XYZ money at the end of summer if he opted out, and possibly more depending on the other contracts signed by the Spurs over the summer, so as e.g. to stay below the lux tax, offer Parker the right kind of extension, etc. And that he would be welcome to take more than XYZ if he can find it, then either the Spurs would match or ask for a S&T.

[Bruno]

There are 4 starting quality left on the FA market: Barnes, Butler, Brewer and Howard. If Spurs can get one of these players for the rest of their MLE ($7.7M/ 3 years), I would be all for Spurs letting RJ go.

A full MLE deal is $33.4M/5 years. I can see some teams offering that to RJ. If the cost for keeping RJ is $35M, I rather spend $7.7M on a player who isn't as good as him but who also isn't that far.

Re-signing a low balled RJ wouldn't even be my first option for Spurs.

[rascal]

I don't see him coming back. Some other team will sign him.

[will_spurs]

I don't see him coming back. Some other team will sign him.


McDonald on twitter:

JMcDonald_SAEN

FWIW, source close to the process sets odds of Jefferson returning to SA at 95 percent. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/18589795030

I guess we have to wait :lol

[ceperez]

I find it curious that there isn't any news out there of another team with interest in RJ.

[Danny.Zhu]

I find it curious that there isn't any news out there of another team with interest in RJ.

There is.

[ceperez]

There is.

Who?

[Spurious]

It was mentioned that an incentive for improved 3-point shooting might be good to have in Jefferson's new deal. I understand the logic but think that's counterproductive. The NBA is already too full of guys who won't take a 70-foot "Hail Mary" at the end of the quarter because they don't want a missed trey to hurt their shooting stats. Every so often, one of those heaves goes in.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

The Clippers.

RJ has Clippers written all over him.

[ElNono]

I thought the Nets still had some cap space (not sure how much) and the Cavs also now that LeBron is gone?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It was mentioned that an incentive for improved 3-point shooting might be good to have in Jefferson's new deal. I understand the logic but think that's counterproductive. The NBA is already too full of guys who won't take a 70-foot "Hail Mary" at the end of the quarter because they don't want a missed trey to hurt their shooting stats. Every so often, one of those heaves goes in.

I hate players who don't take a last second shot, or shoot just a bit after the buzzer. Maybe it's not their fault that NBA analysts and pundits are so obsessed with stats, but still it's something I don't like at all.

[ceperez]

I hate players who don't take a last second shot, or shoot just a bit after the buzzer. Maybe it's not their fault that NBA analysts and pundits are so obsessed with stats, but still it's something I don't like at all.

This is a business. If you are nothing but a role player, then your percentages do matter tremendously.

What I hate more are the stars who make the big bucks not making enough of an effort to win. RJ is an example of this, he's making the money but plays without focus and aggression. These guys even if they have a clue as to what it takes to play championship basketball, aren't going to make the sacrifices.

[Russ]

RJ has Clippers written all over him.

He's from LA -- I'm sure he'd love going to the Clips.

Any clues on how Del Negro may feel about him?

[K-State Spur]

This was the warning from many when the Spurs originally acquired RJ, that he needs shot attempts to be productive, shot attempts he wasn't going to get as a Spur. Hell, I've said a dozen times that I'd have been happy with the numbers he put up this season if he could have done them every game. The problem was that he'd score 2 points a couple games in a row and then score 20 the third night.

Actually, what I think bothered many Spurs fans (and Pop) is that those shots were there and he often wouldn't take them. Passive is an overused term on this board, but it does describe RJ since coming over.

[lefty]

I wonder what Sprewell is thinking about this right now.
He and Kemp are too busy feeding their families

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Chandler for Jefferson?

Is Chandler going to start at SF for us? Come on, think...

[My Fault]

I just wonder why Dick can average 19+ pts in Bucks uniform. No Kidd or Nash there. And why he suck so much this season.

He had more shots and wasn't behind Tim, Manu, TP and Hill. In SA he has less shots to work with.

[PDXSpursFan]

My theory is that the Spurs have not made a formal offer for RJ yet. However, they already let know his agent how much they're willing to offer and RJ is probably witing to see if he can get more money somewhere else.

[spursfaninla]

I thought the Nets still had some cap space (not sure how much) and the Cavs also now that LeBron is gone?

Although it could be team with cap space that gets him, I think a MLE deal is likely. A team over the cap then would be in play, and there are plenty of them.

[DPG21920]

How the hell can RJ not even be getting a MLE offer from someone?

[Vic Petro]

If Atlanta is considering doing Marvin Williams for Shaq, I wonder if there could be an RJ to Cleveland, Shaq to Atlanta, Marvin to San Antonio type of deal.

[Duncan2177]

Is Chandler going to start at SF for us? Come on, think...

Why wouldnt Wilson Chandler start at SF for the spurs? Thats the position he plays. lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why wouldnt Wilson Chandler start at SF for the spurs? Thats the position he plays. lol

You need to spell out which Chandler. I was thinking Tyson.

Yeah, Wilson would obviously be a candidate, if the Knicks wanted RJ and were willing to let Wilson go. But I don't think they would...

[Cane]

Wilson's better than coming up empty handed but it'd just be RJ 2.0

[callo1]

great, add Tmac and upgrade for less $ then still have some cash left over for another piece.

[024]

wow, is jefferson not even getting $6+ million offers from desperate teams like the clippers and nets? he must have sucked more than i realized. someone please give him a S&T and get him out of the spurs. jefferson most likely wants 3yr/$30 million, which i think is too much and not worth the trouble.

[DPG21920]

You need to spell out which Chandler. I was thinking Tyson.

Yeah, Wilson would obviously be a candidate, if the Knicks wanted RJ and were willing to let Wilson go. But I don't think they would...

:lol telling him to clarify when it's obvious.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol telling him to clarify when it's obvious.

Eh, Tyson was in the news yesterday. Sorry, it feels like it's been the norm lately for relatively new posters to see a player going to another team and post on here that they think the Spurs should get in on the trade, etc.

Call it off-season rookie poster fatigue :lol

[Vic Petro]

Barnes probably gone to Heat or Celtics.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_magic/2010/07/matt-barnes-gone-to-heat-or-celtics.html

[wildbill2u]

Spurs got fooled by his shooting % on 3s in the season before he got here (.39.7) where he took a lot more shots--and got more practice. In nine seasons he was only over the breakeven point about 4 times. Bowen almost AVERAGED a better 3% for his career than the best % RJ shot in that one year.

RJ also has lost some mobility on defense and had trouble with the mental aspects of the Spurs defense.

Rating: He's not a scrub and can still make someone's starting rotation--but he isn't going to light anyone's eyes up anymore.

Not a scrub, but

[temujin]

You could tell by the way he plays that Jefferson is no rocket scientist.

ON the court.

Opting out of a 15 millions contract borders insanity.

I still can't believe this is actually true.

I hope the Spurs don't even think resigning this loser.

[Kindergarten Cop]

HES HOLDING OUT HOPE CHI, CLEV, LA CLIPS GIVE HIM A BIG DEAL. Spurs should put 6.5 a year on the table and give him a deadline.

What would be the purpose of the deadline? Resigning Jefferson really doesn't affect what the Spurs would do with the remaining amount of the MLE or the LLE, because apparently we are going after the best possible SF that we can get anyways. Putting a deadline on it would only make sense if we could spend the money allotted (however much the Spurs decide that is) for RJ on somebody else - and that is obviously not the case here.

[spursfan1000]

Bulls, Nets, Knicks are really the only teams left with any money that would satisfy him, his best option would be to resign with Spurs to be honest.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

HES HOLDING OUT HOPE CHI, CLEV, LA CLIPS GIVE HIM A BIG DEAL. Spurs should put 6.5 a year on the table and give him a deadline.

Why would we want to give him a deadline? The market is shrinking for him, and we still need a starting SF...

[Borosai]

I can't be the only person to feel that Jefferson has no desire to be a Spur. He didn't buy into the team last year, and I doubt he will this year if he ends up signing out of necessity. I'd rather not fill such an important position with him if he's going to give a weak effort (for whatever reason).

[Whisky Dog]

This guy made what was one of the worst decisions of the offseason (for him). It was great for the Spurs, but he could have gotten 15 mil thus year to suck hard again. Now if he's lucky he'll earn that 15 mil in 2 1/2 to 3 seasons of suckage.

[Bruno]

RJ still being a FA is very telling about a lack of enthusiasm from both sides to re-sign a contract.

Spurs don't really want to lock RJ to a long term contract after a year where the main conclusion was that he was a bad fit with Spurs.
IMO, RJ isn't fond of re-singing with Spurs. He failed the whole year to find his place and he doesn't even have the edge of being with a contender.

RJ is surely in wait and see mode with re-signing with Spurs being only a plan B.
Let's hope that if a team is finally interested in RJ, Spurs will be able to do a S&T.

[Bruno]

And I'm all for letting RJ go instead of locking him to a big contract.

If I was Spurs GM, I would offer the rest of the MLE to Barnes and telling him he would start at SF. I would offer the LLE to James Jones. If I can get both, I would let RJ go.

A Barnes/Jones SF rotation isn't great but it's still way better than paying $35M for RJ.

[Cane]

RJ probably has a deal waiting from the Spurs but both parties have reasons not to speed up the deal since RJ should look for more $$$ to raise his value and the Spurs are still looking for more depth anyway.

RJ's still a better bet as a productive starter than anyone realistically available in FA.

[DPG21920]

And I'm all for letting RJ go instead of locking him to a big contract.

If I was Spurs GM, I would offer the rest of the MLE to Barnes and telling him he would start at SF. I would offer the LLE to James Jones. If I can get both, I would let RJ go.

A Barnes/Jones SF rotation isn't great but it's still way better than paying $35M for RJ.

I agree 100%. IMO, if you can get two vets like Barnes/Jones, although they are not as good as RJ, the production & fit from the SF spot is just as good as if you have RJ. If that is the case, no need for RJ long term.

[Cane]

I agree 100%. IMO, if you can get two vets like Barnes/Jones, although they are not as good as RJ, the production & fit from the SF spot is just as good as if you have RJ. If that is the case, no need for RJ long term.

Nah the production and fit would be Ime Udoka/Keith Bogans-like, which is worse than RJ.

Barnes doesn't seem like Spur material either and its been stated that Pop doesn't like him. Spurs don't have the money or the ballclub to make up for it to have Barnes come over and if his twitter is of any indication its likely Miami or Boston as his destination...there are no ties between the Spurs/Barnes but there are with Jones.

[DPG21920]

RJ's stats are not hard to replace. Both of the players mentioned are better 3-PT shooters and defenders. That makes the impact better.

[Cane]

RJ's stats are not hard to replace. Both of the players mentioned are better 3-PT shooters and defenders. That makes the impact better.

Defensively, RJ is better than Jones and between him and Barnes its at best a lateral move on that end. RJ's a much more dynamic scorer however and has a better shot than either of taking the scoring load off the big 3 on a given night.

However like I said previously, Barnes doesn't even seem to be on the Spurs radar since his personality's not a fit (whines about minutes, tweets too much stupid stuff, etc) and the Spurs don't seem to fit into his plans. I think its safe to cross his name off the list especially since there are reports of Spurs interest in other SF's like Jones.

[Big P]

And I'm all for letting RJ go instead of locking him to a big contract.

If I was Spurs GM, I would offer the rest of the MLE to Barnes and telling him he would start at SF. I would offer the LLE to James Jones. If I can get both, I would let RJ go.

A Barnes/Jones SF rotation isn't great but it's still way better than paying $35M for RJ.

This

[DPG21920]

Where did you see any of the stuff you mentioned?

[Cane]

Where did you see any of the stuff you mentioned?

His annoying tweets got flack from Otis. Barnes not being a fit from the 760 radio prog and posters on the board. You also don't see Barnes and the Spurs name together but you do see them pursue guys like Jones.

Barnes = headcase

[Marcus Bryant]

And I'm all for letting RJ go instead of locking him to a big contract.

If I was Spurs GM, I would offer the rest of the MLE to Barnes and telling him he would start at SF. I would offer the LLE to James Jones. If I can get both, I would let RJ go.

A Barnes/Jones SF rotation isn't great but it's still way better than paying $35M for RJ.

It depends on how you view the future. If you're of the opinion that the championship window officially closes when TD retires (most likely in two years) then Jefferson's contract doesn't matter that much and the drop off from him to what's available to the Spurs is significant. If you believe that the Spurs can retool on the fly, with TP choosing to remain in SA and the Spurs building a team around him, then perhaps being frugal with Jefferson makes some sense.

[DPG21920]

MB, why do you think there is such a huge drop off from RJ and what is left? Sure, from a talent stand point, you are correct. But if you are looking at stats and fit, there is hardly any gap in my opinion.

On no level does it make sense to pay RJ long term. Keeping RJ does not make the Spurs a true contender now. The Spurs can likely get very close to RJ's stats being replaced with guys who are cheaper and all around better fits. They might not do everything as good as RJ, but if you combine their talents, they do the things the Spurs need from their SF to at least give the team the same chance to compete for a title as they have with RJ. Then, RJ long-term hurts the rebuilding process as well.

[DPG21920]

MB, why do you think there is such a huge drop off from RJ and what is left? Sure, from a talent stand point, you are correct. But if you are looking at stats and fit, there is hardly any gap in my opinion.

On no level does it make sense to pay RJ long term. Keeping RJ does not make the Spurs a true contender now. The Spurs can likely get very close to RJ's stats being replaced with guys who are cheaper and all around better fits. They might not do everything as good as RJ, but if you combine their talents, they do the things the Spurs need from their SF to at least give the team the same chance to compete for a title as they have with RJ. Then, RJ long-term hurts the rebuilding process as well.

This post by HH explains my thinking...


:lol a lot of overreacting IMO..this could be bad, but it's not a panic situation..let it play out first..I didn't read past the 2nd page, so I'll probably repeat some points that others have made..

I thought Jefferson would work out due to the fact that he shot a great % from 3s in the previous season(I assumed it wasn't an anomaly) and the fact that he was once a good defender(I assumed he could still be one with a reduced offensive role)..I was very wrong..

Jefferson had a disgustingly bad 13 PER this season, which shows his statistical output..his efficiency wasn't bad, but he shot 31% from 3, which won't work in this system(or any system in the NBA where you aren't one of the main options, TBH)..

In the playoffs, he had a horrid 10 PER, while shooting 20% from 3s..the other team purposely left him open, as Jarred Dudley admitted, and it really hurt the Spurs offense..

How did he make up for it?..he didn't, really IMO..he was a decent rebounder, 2nd best wing rebounder on the team behind Hairston(statistically)..defensively?..he was usually horrible..he had some games where he played good help D, and he had some games where he played good individual D(usually on big SG/SF types like Pierce and Joe Johnson), but he was usually pretty bad..he missed an amazing amount of rotations, and he often didn't provide any energy for the Spurs..

In regards to creating offense, 70% of his points were assisted..an extremely high number for a wing player..the only players that created less offense for the Spurs this season were Bonner, McDyess and Bogans..

Jefferson had more FGA outside of 10+ feet than he did inside, which speaks on how poor of a fit he is..with this team, he has to spend a lot of time outside of his comfort zone..to allow Jefferson to get in a comfort zone, it requires him to have the ball in his hands a lot, which isn't a possibility for a team that wants to win more than 30 games..

So basically, for the Spurs, Richard Jefferson was a role player that couldn't shoot and couldn't defend..how does that make any sense?..it's not difficult to find an upgrade over that..



So potential negatives that could come out of this:

-Spurs re-sign Jefferson for longer..this would be horrible and wouldn't make any sense for the Spurs..

-The Spurs won't find a better talent..this is a given, it will have to be accepted..the Spurs won't find a guy with more talent or with a bigger name than Jefferson..

-It creates a bigger question mark for a position that already had plenty of question marks to begin with..

-No ability for a trade at the deadline..

Potential positives:

-It forces the Spurs' FO to be aggressive..

-It makes room for a possible better fit, which would come in the form of shooting + defending, which isn't that difficult to find..anybody that can play D and shoot 30+ % from 3 is an upgrade over Jefferson..

-This could lead to a S&T..


If Hairston and/or Gee can shoot 30%+ from 3, they are upgrades over Jefferson from a fitting standpoint..if the Spurs get a Barnes or James Jones type, they would pretty much be an instant upgrade over Jefferson from a fit-standpoint..

I don't think some people understand how bad Jefferson was this season..

RJ has the better peak ability than anybody the Spurs could potentially acquire(outside of a trade), but from a consistency standpoint, it would be difficult to NOT find an upgrade..if the Spurs can get a good defensive wing, which isn't difficult to find(as long as they aren't looking for 30+ year olds), it's an upgrade over Jefferson from a fit-standpoint..Jefferson didn't consistently give the Spurs anything..

[Bruno]

It depends on how you view the future. If you're of the opinion that the championship window officially closes when TD retires (most likely in two years) then Jefferson's contract doesn't matter that much and the drop off from him to what's available to the Spurs is significant. If you believe that the Spurs can retool on the fly, with TP choosing to remain in SA and the Spurs building a team around him, then perhaps being frugal with Jefferson makes some sense.

I disagree with you idea that it's all about the 2 next years and what happens after doesn't matter.

Even if you think that Spurs will rebuild in 2012, giving RJ a long term big contract is a bad idea.
The most bad contracts you have, the longer the rebuilding process is. Having aging average players like RJ or Bonner under contract will hurt a rebuilding process.

When I see that Spurs have struggled to fill the AT&T center for a WCF, I can't imagine what could happen if Spurs sucked for many years. Spurs should do all their possible to speed up as much as possible their rebuilding phase if there is one.

[DPG21920]

Also, the Spurs have started the re-building on the fly like MB mentioned. They have Hill, Tiago & Blair along with a couple other good young prospects (James Anderson, Richards, Malik, Gee, Temple...).

So I doubt the Spurs want to mortgage their future to bring in a bad fit long-term. I would not mind RJ on a two year deal, but that is simply not realistic.

[Vic Petro]

And not to make it about Tony again, but if it does come down to him and the Spurs parting ways, the team should be able to pluck a couple of high draft picks in a S&T.

They could have the benefit of owning high lottery picks without ever really having a lottery record. Tanking and/or losing isn't the only way to get a high draft pick.

The right one of those can completely change the fortunes of a franchise. We've proven to be pretty lucky in that regard...:flag:

[Vic Petro]

This is interesting...

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/18328/day-nine-las-vegas-summer-league-roundup

David Thorpe on Al-Farouq Aminu: "I love the draft pick at that spot, he has real value there going forward. He can be a terrific player. I just don't like him as a 3 for a year or two. That position plays into all of his bad habits. Far too much dribbling and settling for jumpers. Far too little offensive rebounding-three total in their last three games. If he was constantly battling around inside, he'd get three a game simply due to his reach, feel, and talent. I like building players from the inside-out, and from a base of confidence. He's shooting less than 25 percent from the field and has one assist to 13 turnovers. That's a scary foundation for such a young player. He'd kill this league as a 4."

If the Clippers come to the same conclusion and play Aminu more at the 4, then perhaps their interest in RJ grows...:stirpot: