Manu Ginobli supports gay marriage

[nbaman99]

San Antonio Spurs star Manu Ginobli, a native of Argentina, supports his country’s adoption this week of gay marriage, the first country in South America to allow gays to marry.

The NBA star told an Argentine newspaper (this is from an online translation):

With regard to the law of marriage between same sex, NBA player was in favor: “I am all for marriage. I think we all have the same rights. Although in reality with regard to adoption do not feel able to give an opinion. “
His reference to adoption was in regards to the gay marriage bill also giving gay couples the right to adopt. I was sent this link from Andrés Duque of the blog Blabbeando, who goes into great detail about the marriage law.

http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2010/07/16/manu-ginobli-supports-gay-marriage/

[hater]

I have no problems with gay marriage.

But I think Manu would agree with me about adoption, the poor adopted kid of a gay couple is gonna grow up to be a faggot cause he don't know any better :(

[ElNono]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3263/2764160342_50f5a619f3.jpg

[ElNono]

:corn:

[HarlemHeat37]

Good, there's no reason not to support it..

Manu is my type of dude, we seem to have the same views..

[Mr. Body]

Great. Manu is a beautiful human being. Like him tons.

Meanwhile, that idiot upthread: adopted kids of gay parents have every chance of having normal, thriving childhoods, same as any others. Do you think interracial couples ought to avoid having kids, too? If so, I should come kick your ass.

[MannyIsGod]

Good, there's no reason not to support it..

Manu is my type of dude, we seem to have the same views..

Are you going to get down on one knee when you do it?

[hater]

Great. Manu is a beautiful human being. Like him tons.

Meanwhile, that idiot upthread: adopted kids of gay parents have every chance of having normal, thriving childhoods, same as any others. Do you think interracial couples ought to avoid having kids, too? If so, I should come kick your ass.

Sorry you disagree with me Mr. Body.

But until I see proof otherwise I will assume the kid will have more chance to be gay than straight due to living with a gay couple in his/her early years. I cannot support that. And I can see Manu stopped short of supporting it as well.

cheers :toast

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

This should start another round of rumors about re-signing RJ.

[angelbelow]

Don't underestimate the political machinery behind this though. I think any NBA player would be eaten alive with criticism if they didn't at this point.

[timvp]

I'm surprised it took until post #9 for an RJ mention.

[HarlemHeat37]

Are you going to get down on one knee when you do it?


The only man that would interest me in this way is the man in my avatar:)..

[LoneStarState'sPride]

He's an advocate of the game of basketball, not any particular group's rights. Whether you agree with Manu's views or not, I will never understand why people feel the need to get caught up in this shit.

[HarlemHeat37]

He's an advocate of the game of basketball, not any particular group's rights. Whether you agree with Manu's views or not, I will never understand why people feel the need to get caught up in this shit.

By commenting in this thread, you're getting caught up in it..

[mingus]

yeah it would be an interesting study to see if kids of gay couples disproportionally end up being gay as well. I think they would... that's y I don't support the adoption part. I think a man and woman are responsible for that.

[Mr. Body]

Sorry you disagree with me Mr. Body.

But until I see proof otherwise I will assume the kid will have more chance to be gay than straight due to living with a gay couple in his/her early years. I cannot support that. And I can see Manu stopped short of supporting it as well.

cheers :toast

You're a fucking idiot.

[Spurminator]

Tony Parker would never support gay marriage.

[tomtom]

I have no problems with gay marriage.

But I think Manu would agree with me about adoption, the poor adopted kid of a gay couple is gonna grow up to be a faggot cause he don't know any better :(

I'm glad he supports gay marriage. I'm not sure that line completely makes sense though hater. Why do kids of heterosexual couples end up gay then? Anyways I guess I don't really have a strong opinion of gay couple adoption anyways.

[lefty]

Manu is a GREAT teammate


He is very supportive of Richard Jefferson

[baseline bum]

This thread doesn't seem to have the potential of the no soy creyente one a couple of years ago.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

By commenting in this thread, you're getting caught up in it..

Don't be a smart-ass. I was referring to the phenomenon of ascribing added value to what celebrities of any discipline think about politically sensitive issues such as this. Try to keep up.

[MoSpur]

I could care less what Manu is in support of. All I care about is whether he's tearing it up on the court in the playoffs.

[Crazymaddopeyo]

Sorry you disagree with me Mr. Body.

But until I see proof otherwise I will assume the kid will have more chance to be gay than straight due to living with a gay couple in his/her early years. I cannot support that. And I can see Manu stopped short of supporting it as well.

cheers :toast

There are no difference with kids being raised with gay parents or heterosexual parents.

No difference.

Sexual Orientation. A number of investigators have also studied a third component of sexual identity, sexual orientation (Bailey, Bobrow, Wolfe, & Mickach, 1995; Bozett, 1980, 1987, 1989; Gottman, 1990; Golombok & Tasker, 1996; Green, 1978; Huggins, 1989; Miller, 1979; Paul, 1986; Rees, 1979; Tasker & Golombok, 1997). In all studies, the great majority of offspring of both lesbian mothers and gay fathers described themselves as heterosexual. Taken together, the data do not suggest elevated rates of homosexuality among the offspring of lesbian or gay parents. For instance, Huggins (1989) interviewed 36 adolescents, half of whom had lesbian mothers and half of whom had heterosexual mothers. No children of lesbian mothers identified themselves as lesbian or gay, but one child of a heterosexual mother did; this difference was not statistically significant. In another study, Bailey and his colleagues (1995) studied adult sons of gay fathers and found more than 90% of the sons to be heterosexual.

Golombok and Tasker (1996, 1997) studied 25 young adults reared by divorced lesbian mothers and 21 young adults reared by divorced heterosexual mothers. They reported that offspring of lesbian mothers were no more likely than those of heterosexual mothers to describe themselves as feeling attracted to same-sex sexual partners. If they were attracted in this way, however, young adults with lesbian mothers were more likely to report that they would consider entering into a same-sex sexual relationship, and they were more likely to have actually participated in such a relationship. They were not, however, more likely to identify themselves as non-heterosexual (i.e., as lesbian, gay, or bisexual). These results were based on a small sample, and they must be interpreted with caution. At the same time, the study is the first to follow children of divorced lesbian mothers into adulthood, and it offers a detailed and careful examination of important issues.

[Kori Ellis]

How can someone spell a player's last name wrong in a title of an article? :wtf

[lefty]

How can someone spell a player's last name wrong in a title of an article? :wtf
I think Barkley is the author

[MoSpur]

So wait...maybe its not even the same Manu who supports gay marriage. It could be someone totally different.

[lefty]

So wait...maybe its not even the same Manu who supports gay marriage. It could be someone totally different.
Wait......




We have another Manu ????



:lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2::lobt2:: lobt2::lobt2:

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I could care less what Manu is in support of. All I care about is whether he's tearing it up on the court in the playoffs.

This.

/[thread]

[hater]

You're a fucking idiot.

Seems like this is a very sensitive subject to you. not that there's anything wrong with it...

[MoSpur]

I say move this thread to the Political Forum since its Ginobli and not Ginobili.

[Kermit]

Typical Response to this situation:

Person who agrees with Manu: "That's so awesome! Way to go Manu! I totally agree."

Person who disagrees with Manu: "Why do celebrities feel the need to expound on this shit? No one cares what they think!"

Same person who disagrees with Manu responding to a quote from some other celebrity who agrees with their views: "That's so awesome! Way to go! I totally agree."

[in2deep]

It would be interesting to get Manu's feedback on the subject AFTER we resign RJ

[Brazil]

:corn:

[it's me]

There are no difference with kids being raised with gay parents or heterosexual parents.

No difference.

Sexual Orientation. A number of investigators have also studied a third component of sexual identity, sexual orientation (Bailey, Bobrow, Wolfe, & Mickach, 1995; Bozett, 1980, 1987, 1989; Gottman, 1990; Golombok & Tasker, 1996; Green, 1978; Huggins, 1989; Miller, 1979; Paul, 1986; Rees, 1979; Tasker & Golombok, 1997). In all studies, the great majority of offspring of both lesbian mothers and gay fathers described themselves as heterosexual. Taken together, the data do not suggest elevated rates of homosexuality among the offspring of lesbian or gay parents. For instance, Huggins (1989) interviewed 36 adolescents, half of whom had lesbian mothers and half of whom had heterosexual mothers. No children of lesbian mothers identified themselves as lesbian or gay, but one child of a heterosexual mother did; this difference was not statistically significant. In another study, Bailey and his colleagues (1995) studied adult sons of gay fathers and found more than 90% of the sons to be heterosexual.

Golombok and Tasker (1996, 1997) studied 25 young adults reared by divorced lesbian mothers and 21 young adults reared by divorced heterosexual mothers. They reported that offspring of lesbian mothers were no more likely than those of heterosexual mothers to describe themselves as feeling attracted to same-sex sexual partners. If they were attracted in this way, however, young adults with lesbian mothers were more likely to report that they would consider entering into a same-sex sexual relationship, and they were more likely to have actually participated in such a relationship. They were not, however, more likely to identify themselves as non-heterosexual (i.e., as lesbian, gay, or bisexual). These results were based on a small sample, and they must be interpreted with caution. At the same time, the study is the first to follow children of divorced lesbian mothers into adulthood, and it offers a detailed and careful examination of important issues.

LOL.... keep reading.........

"""""""""""""Sexual Abuse: A Major Cause Of Homosexuality?
It is a well-documented fact that many many homosexuals were sexually abused when young. (This paper will conclude with a list of some books which support that statement.)
In other words, there is an abundance of evidence that many many homosexuals were born heterosexual but were disoriented by sexual abuse.

Indeed, there are many more cases of sexual abuse than there are cases of homosexuality. As one large study discussed in a 1997 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found, on average 12.8% of women and 4.3% of men recall being sexually abused.1 (How many do not recall it?)

According to Dr. James E. Soukup, author of a book which deals with several subjects including sexual abuse: "In one national study in 1985, 27 percent of the females interviewed and 16 percent of the males reported to have been sexually abused as children. Other studies indicate that these figures are too low. It is suggested that eighty percent of all sexual abuse is not reported."2

The Associated Press noted in late 1998 that, according to an analysis of 166 studies covering the years 1985-97: "As many as one in five boys is sexually abused....It [also] concluded that sexual abuse of boys is underreported and undertreated....Earlier studies have shown that 25 percent to 35 percent of girls are sexually abused."3

(According to a JAMA review of literature re the sexual abuse of boys, only 10%-33% of male abuse victims ever tell anyone about that abuse.4 The review also found that: "Abused [male] adolescents, particularly those victimized by males, were up to 7 times more likely to self-identify as gay or bisexual than peers who had not been abused."5 And regarding female abuse victims, one study found that 38% of adult women ages 18-31 who were sexually abused when young [between ages 10 months to 12 years] did not remember that they were sexually abused when young.6)

Whatever the true percentages are of male and female sex abuse victims, considering how high the suggested/reported numbers are compared to the percentage of the population that is homosexual (only 1%-2%), we can see that sexual abuse can theoretically account for every case of homosexuality.

Too, there currently is no definitive proof that anyone is born homosexual. Several studies by homosexual researchers claimed to find some possible biological bases for homosexuality. But other scientists easily pointed out the flaws in those studies, and the results of those studies have yet to be replicated by others. In the words of pro-homosexual Newsweek magazine: "In the early '90s, three highly publicized studies seemed to suggest that homosexuality's roots were genetic....More than five years later the data have never been replicated."7 (This fact has been almost totally ignored by the biased, untrustworthy, dominant liberal media.) And in the May/June 2008 issue of Psychology Today we have this: "No one has yet identified a particular gay gene....There is no all-inclusive explanation for the variation in sexual orientation, at least none supported by actual evidence....[T]here are many different mechanisms [involving both nature and nurture], not a single one, for producing homosexuality."8

(And even if there ever was a "homosexual gene," since most if not all homosexuals do not sire offspring, one would think that homosexual genes would disappear or die out.)

So how can anyone claim, in good conscience, that homosexuals are born that way and have no choice? When someone says they are homosexual, our first response should be to try and find out if he/she was sexually abused and, if so, to then punish the abuser. Our next response should be to provide therapy to homosexuals to help them cope with their problems.

Those who push the born-homosexual line are effectively ignoring the sexual abuse of children. What kind of "people" want to let pedophiles get away with sexually abusing little kids?

(If sexual abuse happens to a one-year or two-year old child, he or she may not remember it later in life because it happened at such a young age. However, the trauma can govern the rest of the victim's life. Some homosexuals will swear they were never sexually abused, but they have no way of knowing for sure.)

Skilled psychologists and psychiatrists like Masters and Johnson, Charles Socarides, Joseph Nicolosi, Benjamin Kaufman, Elizabeth Moberly, Jeffrey Satinover, and Gerard van den Aardweg, have had much success changing homosexuals into heterosexuals. (They have been successful because most if not all homosexuals were probably born heterosexual.)

Dr. Reuben Fine, Director of the New York Center for Psychoanalytic Training: "It is paradoxical that even though the politically active homosexual group[s] denies the possibility of change, all studies from Schrenk-Notzing on have found positive effects, virtually regardless of the kind of treatment used....If the homosexual patients were motivated, whatever procedure [i.e., treatment] is adopted, a large percentage will give up their homosexuality."9

Those who oppose using therapy to change homosexuals into heterosexuals are, in effect, trying to keep homosexuals locked into homosexuality. Those who oppose such therapy do not want homosexuals to have a choice, a way out of homosexuality. That's un-American, inhumane, intolerant, and meanly oppressive.

In addition, considering all the solid scientific evidence that homosexuals are mentally disturbed to one degree or another because of sexual abuse (or dysfunctional parents or other negative developmental influences many homosexuals experienced), it is clear that those psychiatrists and psychologists who say homosexuality should NOT be on the officially approved list of mental illnesses are seemingly incompetent malpractitioners. They appear to be more interested in being "politically correct" than in the truth. Incompetent malpractitioners should have their licenses to ply their professions revoked.

(A book written by Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist, titled Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis, explains how the decision to remove homosexuality from the officially approved list of mental disorders was based on power politics and intimidation by homosexual groups NOT science.)

One last note: Homosexuals do not want you to know that many of them were sexually abused when young, because many people who were so abused go on to molest others. And homosexuals do not want you to know that they are more likely to molest children than heterosexuals are.10


Footnotes
1. H. MacMillan, "Prevalence of Child Physical and Sexual Abuse in the Community," JAMA, July 9, 1997, p. 131.

2. James E. Soukup, Understanding and Living With People Who Are Mentally Ill (Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publishers, 1995), p. 104.

3. Associated Press, "Study: As many as 1 in 5 boys sexually abused," Chicago Tribune, Dec. 2, 1998, section 1, p. 22.

4. W.C. Holmes and G.B. Slap, "Sexual Abuse of Boys," JAMA, Dec. 2, 1998, p. 1859.

5. Ibid.

6. Jennifer A. Hurley (editor), Child Abuse: Opposing Viewpoints (San Diego: Greenhaven Press, 1999), pp. 113-14.

7. John Leland and Mark Miller, "Can Gays Convert?", Newsweek, Aug. 17, 1998, p. 49.

8. Robert Kunzig, "Finding the Switch," Psychology Today, May/June 2008, pp. 90 and 93.

9. Louis Diamant (editor), Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches (Washington, DC: Hemisphere Publishing Corp., 1987), pp. 84-6.

10. Support for the position that homosexuals are more likely than heterosexuals to sexually abuse children can be found in the following sources:

Ray Blanchard, et al., "Fraternal Birth Order and Sexual Orientation in Pedophiles," Archives of Sexual Behavior 29 (2000), p. 464.

John M.W. Bradford, et al., "The Heterogeneity/Homogeneity of Pedophilia," Psychiatric Journal of the University of Ottawa 13 (1988), p. 218.

Michelle Elliott, "Child Sexual Abuse Prevention: What Offenders Tell Us," Child Abuse and Neglect 19 (1995), p. 581.

Kurt Freund, et al., "Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference, " Journal of Sex Research 26 (1989), pp. 107-17. This is an odd article in that it actually states (in a bow to political correctness?) that there is no correlation between homosexuality and pedophilia but provides clear statistics that indicate there is such a correlation.

Zebulon A. Silverthorne and Vernon L. Quinsey, "Sexual Partner Age Preferences of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men and Women," Archives of Sexual Behavior 29 (2000), pp. 67-76.

Robin D. Stone, No Secrets, No Lies (NY: Broadway Books, 2004), p. 153.


The following books, with page numbers, refer to the fact that many many homosexuals were sexually abused when young:

Teen Prostitution by Joan J. Johnson (NY & Chicago: Franklin Watts Publishers, 1992), p. 53.

Female Perversions by Dr. Louise J. Kaplan (NY: Doubleday, 1991), p. 437.

Invisible Lives by Martha Barron Barrett (NY: William Morrow & Co., 1989), p. 140.

Incest and Sexuality by therapists Wendy Maltz and Beverly Holman (Lexington, MA: Lexington Books, 1987), p. 72.

The Secret Trauma by Prof. Diane E.H. Russell (NY: Basic Books, Inc., 1986), p. 199.

The Broken Taboo: Sex in the Family by B. and R. Justice (quoted in the book Incest: a family pattern by Jean Renvoize [London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1982], p. 127).


The following books refer to the fact that many young victims of sexual abuse later experience confusion over their sexual identities:
The Consumer's Guide to Psychotherapy by Drs. Jack Engler and Daniel Goleman (NY: Simon & Schuster/Fireside, 1992), p. 414.

Desires in Conflict by Joe Dallas (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1991), p. 187.

Betrayal of Innocence by Dr. Susan Forward and Craig Buck (NY: Penguin Books, 1988), p. 96.

See also the magazine article "Does Physical Abuse, Sexual Abuse, or Neglect in Childhood Increase the Likelihood of Same-sex Sexual Relationships and Cohabitation? A Prospective 30-year Follow-up" by Helen Wilson and Cathy Widom in Archives of Sexual Behavior (January 7, 2009)."""""""""""""""

[Kermit]

69 people are currently viewing this thread.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Let me know when it reaches 666 people.

[taps]

HH37 very manly post :tu

personally if i'm one of the thousands of unadopted kids I'm not sure i'd care as long as u can give me roof,care,food.

Even with all the straight couples adopting there are still lots of children left behind in adoption centers, why punish them & force them to be raised by an agency with less resources than a couple with the means to focus/lavish money & education on him.

2 me it feels like an irrational fear of being overrun by a giant rainbow conspiracy.

[Trainwreck2100]

nobody's perfect

[Blackjack]

I'm a Tiagosexual myself . . .

[silverblk mystix]

I don't understand why anyone would care who does or does not get married.

If gay couples would like to be as miserable as the rest of us -why try to stop them?

[it's me]

I don't understand why anyone would care who does or does not get married.

If gay couples would like to be as miserable as the rest of us -why try to stop them?

:lmao winer

[Muser]

50 guests viewing :lmao

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

2 me it feels like an irrational fear of being overrun by a giant rainbow conspiracy.

http://www.devpsy.org/nonscience/Kermit.jpg
Some day we'll find it, the Rainbow Conspiracy
The Masons, the CIA, and the Gays
Laaaaaaa dee da dee da dee dum

[taps]

^diffuse bomb

Well played

[Supergirl]

I have no problems with gay marriage.

But I think Manu would agree with me about adoption, the poor adopted kid of a gay couple is gonna grow up to be a faggot cause he don't know any better :(

right, because with all those gay kids & straight parents it worked out that way. LOL.

[5in10]

I have no problems with gay marriage.

But I think Manu would agree with me about adoption, the poor adopted kid of a gay couple is gonna grow up to be a faggot cause he don't know any better :(


Hmmm using the word faggot doesn't really support any of your post.

[Leonard Curse]

i dont think he has much of a choice tbh, we'd prob. be shocked to find out what these stars really think!

[K-State Spur]

i dont think he has much of a choice tbh, we'd prob. be shocked to find out what these stars really think!

he has the choice to not answer the question - nobody in the NBA would begrudge him that.

manu is smart enough and has been around pop long enough that he knows full well how to answer a question without really answering it at all.

that he gave a clear answer, we can be pretty sure that is his actual opinion - for better or for worse. i know it's a controversial issue in this country, but just having an opinion on one side or the other should not be.

[Rain318]

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2008/10/michael%20jackson%20gif.gif

[Parker2112]

Seems like this is a very sensitive subject to you. not that there's anything wrong with it...

Hater: are you telling me that if you were raised by a homosexual couple, and raised well in fact, that at 16 years of age a pamela anderson playboy spread wouldnt have had the same effect on you that it would have otherwise?

now put it in reverse...say you had been raised to by two gay guys. say you thought that homosexuality was A-OK. Would that make you stare at a guys crotch and drool all of a sudden?

Ponder that for a while. When you're done pondering, the proof will set you free.


LOL.... keep reading.........

"""""""""""""Sexual Abuse: A Major Cause Of Homosexuality?
It is a well-documented fact that many many homosexuals were sexually abused when young....



What does sexual abuse have to do with anything in the original post?

Your response is bs...

[urunobili]

lol the US will likely be the last one to approve this kind of measure which is truly lame since it should be the avant garde nation leading the Americas / World... now it seems that they want to make the LGBT community suffer as much as the black and illegal immigrants have... unreal... Manu showed some big balls as always to come out and support them publicly like this :tu

and BTW I know a gay couple that raised a kid (their maiden 7th child she couldnt support him) that now it's on the Air Force and have the freacking hottest lady in town.. lol hater doubting his own status with the second part of his comment... lol DC

[ezau]

Are you going to get down on one knee when you do it?

:lmao:lmao

[ezau]

Is this the reason why RJ gets a lot of his points from Manu's passes? When RJ reads this, he's gonna sign for free.

[lotr1trekkie]

Point of order: In "Birdcage" the son had already established his sexual identity before his parents split. Who the fuck cares about Manu's opinion? He just had twins the heterosexual way. If sometime awful happened, I doubt he would want his boys raised by two men or women. Deal with it.

[kaji157]

I would say that there is no evidence that have gay parents have a major percentage of gay (adopted) sons.
While sexual abuse has a very high rate to turn a person into homosexual, and that happens a lot more in heterosexual enviroments.
Just giving ideas on how to think about this.

I think as everything there should be some time before reality hits on anyones door. Holland was the first country to introduce such rights, and there are not, as of today, enough evidence to talk with knowladge about this matters, as children adopted by the first gay´s couples would be around 10 years old as of now.

[senorglory]

do you think interracial couples ought to avoid having kids, too? If so, i should come kick your ass.

lol!

[senorglory]

yeah it would be an interesting study to see if kids of gay couples disproportionally end up being gay as well.

dude... there's been billions, if not trillions, of comprehensive peer-reviewed statistical studies already completed and published on this very topic.

i have no citation, i'm too lazy to mouse over to the google toolbar and type in the two are three words it would take for me to pull up a citation, or the abstract of one of these studies, or a link to wikipedia page, or some such... a laziness, I assume, you can empathize with.

but forget all that gay-marriage-stuff. you ever hear about the San Antonio Spurs? i'm a big fan.

[Budkin]

Good for Manu! One more reason to like the guy!

[ploto]

You do realize that gay people have kids all the time.

[CaptainLate]

nobody's perfect

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

[ploto]

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

Manu is not Catholic.


To support something that deserves death...

You must have studied a different Jesus than I have.

[ElNono]

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

You're late.

Ginobili has said publicly he doesn't believe in religion, and I'm fairly sure he doesn't give a rats ass what CaptainLate in Spurstalk thinks about that.

[spizzle_tronk]

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l4uyujudq41qzh5gno1_500.gif

[SOMA Spur]

Had to chime in on this one...

Love Spurstalk - great spurs info, but the constant homophobia by some of its posters always came off as disgusting and frankly a little sad.

Glad to see Manu speak out in support of basic human rights and equality. Its also very refreshing to see Spurstalk posters showing up and doing the same. Thats what I call raising the bar.

[tmtcsc]

I love Manu as a basketball player and for what he has done for this city. But I couldn't care less about his views on gay marriage or about his spiritual beliefs or lack there of.

Just win baby. Put the ball in the hole.

[Leonard Curse]

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

i agree, i dont want to get too into this but if you believe in God you believe the whole scripture you dont take pieces of it and make a customized religion aka "whore religion" and its gotten to the point that if you believe in what the bible says your a old fashion moron, or "primitive", so just like people demand respect for gay marriage, you guys show some respect for Christian beliefs. thats all i ask now can we get back to basketball!!!!!!!

[Parker2112]

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

Sodomy is a sin. Christ died for your sins. So that you didnt have to sacrifice animals like the isrealites.

[silverblk mystix]

christianity - the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a woman who was created from a man's rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple from a magical tree.. yeah, that makes perfect sense.

[ChumpDumper]

i agree, i dont want to get too into this but if you believe in God you believe the whole scripture you dont take pieces of it and make a customized religion aka "whore religion" and its gotten to the point that if you believe in what the bible says your a old fashion moron, or "primitive", so just like people demand respect for gay marriage, you guys show some respect for Christian beliefs. thats all i ask now can we get back to basketball!!!!!!!You believe the entire Bible as written?

[spursfan1000]

He's an advocate of the game of basketball, not any particular group's rights. Whether you agree with Manu's views or not, I will never understand why people feel the need to get caught up in this shit.


This.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Sorry you disagree with me Mr. Body.

But until I see proof otherwise I will assume the kid will have more chance to be gay than straight due to living with a gay couple in his/her early years. I cannot support that. And I can see Manu stopped short of supporting it as well.

cheers :toast

It's pretty clear you don't know any gay people then, nor do you have a fucking clue what you are talking about.

Most people who are gay don't choose to be, they just are. It is genetic, not cultural. The kind of ignorance you display in your post is disturbing.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

Why do you Bible thumpers have to lie so fucking much? Homosexuality and sodomy are not "unnatural" - in fact they are behaviours found throughout the animal kingdom in all kinds of species, and generally featuring in 2-10% of the population. How then can it be "unnatural"? Don't let the evidence get in the way of your bullshit propaganda though. :rolleyes

[Dr. Gonzo]

lol buttsecks

[Kori Ellis]

Correct. Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture. :nope

To support something that deserves death and eternal damnation, well, then you are either stupid :bang, or you are a coward who won't defend the Divine and natural laws. Instead, you help others who are easily tempted to become minions of Satan.

So, Manu Ginobili, which are you -- stupid or a coward?

BTW, Mr. Ginobili, being Argentinian, odds are you are Catholic. If true, then you go against the Church and join millions of others who deny the doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ in 33 A.D.

Religious debate probably belongs in the Political forum rather than here, but just FYI Manu isn't Catholic and doesn't believe in God :stirpot:

[TheSullyMonster]

i agree, i dont want to get too into this but if you believe in God you believe the whole scripture you dont take pieces of it and make a customized religion aka "whore religion"

You don't study history much, do you?:lol

Or the Bible, for that matter.:downspin:

Hint: People have been cutting books in and out for millennia.


so just like people demand respect for gay marriage, you guys show some respect for Christian beliefs.

Sure. Leave the secular world(and it's laws) alone, and nobody will bother you in church. Sound fair?

[Blackjack]

Gay marriage support turned into a theology discussion .... weird, and totally unexpected.

#1 Poster out (but not of the closet).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Gay marriage support turned into a theology discussion .... weird, and totally unexpected.

#1 Poster out (but not of the closet).

When did you start calling yourself that? :lmao

I mean, you're pretty good, but there's some stiff competition out there... ;) :lol

[Blackjack]

When did you start calling yourself that? :lmao

I mean, you're pretty good, but there's some stiff competition out there... ;) :lol

You didn't hear, a new champ was crowned!

Check the sig. :hat

[TheSpursFNRule]

Lol so many fucking bums on this board. Reading this thread retracts from your knowledge, its bad for you. Most people who are homophobic have issues with their own sexuality. Really fucking sad you bums.

[senorglory]

Sodomy is an abomination to God and is condemned in Sacred Scripture.

Obama Nation?

[Leonard Curse]

You don't study history much, do you?:lol

Or the Bible, for that matter.:downspin:

Hint: People have been cutting books in and out for millennia.



Sure. Leave the secular world(and it's laws) alone, and nobody will bother you in church. Sound fair?

:lol so wait your beliefs make more sense than the bible right?? who made secularity?? your laws change daily. its funny youre doing the same thing i am, youre spitting something out that was taught to you and choosing to accept it as your belief yet your laughing at me?? whether you think my beliefs are stupid or not thats your choice all im saying is if you respect gay marriage respect christian beliefs as well im sorry that was soooo offensive to you.

Central catholic grad and was in private school my whole life so thanks for trying to educate me on religion but i got it covered even the"removed scripture" sumerian correlation blah blah blah ,and no it wasnt fair at all! lol i just said people should respect christians too but i guess thats halarious and offensive and now im a church goer 2 u lol i will no longer engage in this conversation on a basketball forum msg me if you want to keep going NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO BASKETBALL HERE???

[DAF86]

I have no problems with gay marriage.

But I think Manu would agree with me about adoption, the poor adopted kid of a gay couple is gonna grow up to be a faggot cause he don't know any better :(

Your sexual condition is something you can't choose, you're just born that way, studies have proved this. Do you really think somebody chooses to be gay?

[DAF86]

People should know by now that Manu likes to go left.

[MmP]

Your sexual condition is something you can't choose, you're just born that way, studies have proved this. Do you really think somebody chooses to be gay?
What studies?
Sexual condition is based on your chilhood psycology. The human structure is defined from 0 to 6 years old. In that time you wheter identife with boys or girls.

[Chieflion]

I don't see the problem with Manu supporting gay marriage or against gay marriage. It really doesn't matter since he isn't gay.

[gospursgojas]

Rudy Gay is getting married???

[Biggems]

I do not care for homosexuality.....However, as student of science, I do understand that in many ways, it is something that a person is born with. Their chemical and hormonal makeup causes them to be attracted to the same sex. The funny thing, if you ask most guys, homosexuality is acceptable, as long as it is two hot ladies going at it.

As far as this gay couple adopting a kid, it does kind of bother me. However, by the same token, look at all the mom/dad homes that suck. So many of those produce horrible results. Then there are the single parent homes as well.

Hey, if this couple, gay or straight, is willing to take a child in, give him/her a loving, safe, and happy environment to grow up in, then we should support it.

I wonder how many of the men in here who raise a stink about the gay couple adoption actually take an active role as a father in the lives of the children they have created? I am not accusing anyone of being deadbeat, just curious.

[Biggems]

oh and as far as homosexuality goes, you single heterosexual men should want more homosexual men in this world......cause if there are less straight men (less competition), that makes your odds of getting some Grade A females that much better.

[K-State Spur]

i agree, i dont want to get too into this but if you believe in God you believe the whole scripture you dont take pieces of it and make a customized religion aka "whore religion" and its gotten to the point that if you believe in what the bible says your a old fashion moron, or "primitive", so just like people demand respect for gay marriage, you guys show some respect for Christian beliefs. thats all i ask now can we get back to basketball!!!!!!!

if that's one's beliefs, i support their right to say that.

however, i hope anybody throwing around the words "abomination to god" regarding gay marriage has NEVER eaten shrimp or crab.

[DPG21920]

*****Slowly walks away*****

[Sisk]

nobody's perfect

:lol

[callo1]

This has no place on this forum.

This has NOTHING to do with basketball.

Take this to the Political Forum, thats what it is there for.

Kori, would you move this please?

Thank you.

[mabrignani]

Manu is just saying that because he knows RJ will be back this season and doesnt wanna piss him off

[HarlemHeat37]

Why are people so scared to discuss this here? :lol..

If you don't want to talk about it, don't talk about it..the fact that Manu talked about it makes it Spurs-related..nobody is forcing you to discuss it..

1d63ClccjjE

:rollin The entire thing is funnier, I can't find it though, only the worse version..

[ElNono]

I like Blackjack as the #1 poster (no homo) :lol

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Alright, here's my last post in this ridiculously convoluted thread. I don't care for homosexuality. As a Christian, I believe that it's a sin in God's eyes and an abuse of the body, which the Bible teaches is a "temple" for the holy spirit. Those are my personal beliefs, and no amount of posturing or political correctness is going to alter my thinking on the subject.

That said...........

I also believe it's none of my fucking business what people do on their own time and in the privacy of their own bedrooms. I've got enough problems and imperfections in my own life to keep me occupied for a looooooong time, so how the hell am I gonna worry about what other people are doing? If homosexuals want to get married, let 'em get married. I don't agree with it, but that doesn't really matter at the end of the day now does it?

Live and let live according to your own beliefs--worry about what you actually have some control over.

[ElNono]

Manu is just saying that because he knows RJ will be back this season and doesnt wanna piss him off

Il Capppiitttaaannnnoooooo!!!!!

lol Italy :lol

[will_spurs]

:rollin
The entire thing is funnier, I can't find it though, only the worse version..

yPvVnrV1tow

[HarlemHeat37]

yPvVnrV1tow

Ya, I saw that one, but it's not as funny as the official version from the HBO special..

[CaptainLate]

You're late.

Ginobili has said publicly he doesn't believe in religion, and I'm fairly sure he doesn't give a rats ass what CaptainLate in Spurstalk thinks about that.

I'll bet money he was raised Catholic and is now an apostate on his way to Hell. :(

As for what I say, Ginobili will regret not giving a "rats ass" (sic) on Judgment Day when he goes to Hell for not doing what Jesus Christ "thinks", and told us to do in Scripture.

[Crazymaddopeyo]

I like Blackjack as the #1 poster (no homo) :lol


I thought this was funny

YJnlPP7jm5s

[Blackjack]

I like Blackjack as the #1 poster (no homo) :lol


http://rlv.zcache.com/pleasing_you_pleases_me_tshirt-p235939488976723908qiuw_400.jpg

(No homo)

[will_spurs]

As for what I say, Ginobili will regret not giving a "rats ass" (sic) on Judgment Day when he goes to Hell for not doing what Jesus Christ "thinks", and told us to do in Scripture.

Well you know that's a big relief, now I know that when I go to Hell Manu will be there too. Will be cool rootnig for him at the Hell vs Heaven All-Star Game, he's going to kick some serious ass!

:lol

[polandprzem]

One of my favorite shows

and this sequence:

LYNDVaPrTMs

[Nathan89]

Gay marriage support turned into a theology discussion .... weird, and totally unexpected.

#1 Poster out (but not of the closet).

So you are still in the closet. You have to live your life. Be your truly happy and fruity self.

[polandprzem]

Now tell me why Manu is a gay?

[CaptainLate]

Your sexual condition is something you can't choose, you're just born that way, studies have proved this. Do you really think somebody chooses to be gay?

Another easily conditioned sheeple who believes the MSM.

The proceeding logic will probably go over your head, but I'll put it down for you anyway.

God cannot deceive (nor be deceived).
God condemns sodomy.
If God creates sodomites, then He deceives us and is evil. This is an impossibility.
God did give sodomites, as He gives all men, free will to know, love and serve God in this world so we can be happy with Him in the next. Those who misuse their gift of free will to choose a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance will be damned. Those who do not warn the sodomites of their path to Hell are UNcharitable and objectively sin by omission.

[ElNono]

So you are still in the closet. You have to live your life. Be your truly happy and fruity self.

:lol

[Shastafarian]

Another easily conditioned sheeple who believes the MSM.

The proceeding logic will probably go over your head, but I'll put it down for you anyway.

God cannot deceive (nor be deceived).
God condemns sodomy.
If God creates sodomites, then He deceives us and is evil. This is an impossibility.
God did give sodomites, as He gives all men, free will to know, love and serve God in this world so we can be happy with Him in the next. Those who misuse their gift of free will to choose a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance will be damned. Those who do not warn the sodomites of their path to Hell are UNcharitable and objectively sin by omission.

Bible thumper calling others sheeple :rollin

[ElNono]

Bible thumper calling others sheeple :rollin

:rollin

Let me play some music with that...

aQIxn7s3ym8

[senorglory]

Rudy Gay is getting married???

I support Rudy Gay's right to marry.

[CaptainLate]

I do not care for homosexuality.....However, as student of science, I do understand that in many ways, it is something that a person is born with. Their chemical and hormonal makeup causes them to be attracted to the same sex....
I wonder how many of the men in here who raise a stink about the gay couple adoption actually take an active role as a father in the lives of the children they have created?

I can see you failed science.

As for your question, I take, and have taken, an active role as a father in the lives of my boys. We understand the world has already been judged, evidence of which can be seen by the perverse and sick comments by the majority of the posters on this forum. No doubt society has turned into Sodom & Gomorrah, which is why my family and I are ready to defend ourselves :ihit against the perverts and their anti-Christian supporters.

[ElNono]

I can see you failed science.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Make it stop, please! :lmao

[Blackjack]

So you are still in the closet. You have to live your life. Be your truly happy and fruity self.

I'm butch.

[Shastafarian]

:rollin

Let me play some music with that...

aQIxn7s3ym8

I see you AC/DC and raise you

HFC6NevKYuI

[Shastafarian]

I can see you failed science.

As for your question, I take, and have taken, an active role as a father in the lives of my boys. We understand the world has already been judged, evidence of which can be seen by the perverse and sick comments by the majority of the posters on this forum. No doubt society has turned into Sodom & Gomorrah, which is why my family and I are ready to defend ourselves :ihit against the perverts and their anti-Christian supporters.

Are you anti-psychiatry as well? Cuz it might come in handy if you're not.

[ElNono]

I see you AC/DC and raise you

HFC6NevKYuI

Sorry, but I have to double down with AC/DC :lol

Zh3mSGPGSZU

[Shastafarian]

Sorry, but I have to double down with AC/DC :lol

Zh3mSGPGSZU

Luckily I've had this pocket Ace in my hand

KN8tiIH2kVU

[Blackjack]

:rollin

Let me play some music with that...

aQIxn7s3ym8


I see you AC/DC and raise you

HFC6NevKYuI

Well, then I see your Highway to Hell and 666 and raise (by lowering you to the realm of Slayer) you this:

DEeRL94Rzbw

[Shastafarian]

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z237/chickapay/elaine-seinfeld-devil-face-o.gif

[ElNono]

Gotta give Ozzy some love too...

4Pbl4x1OKqs

[Cane]

How about 48MoH?

[Blackjack]

48 minutes just isn't a whole lot of one's life in the grand scheme of things . . .

[polandprzem]

Marry Merry
or
Marry Larry

?

[senorglory]

I see you AC/DC and raise you

HFC6NevKYuI

I'm in. Call.
5a_sHmUyy_4

[ChumpDumper]

God cannot deceiveWhy not? I thought God could do anything.

Quite a disappointment.

[hater]

Hater: are you telling me that if you were raised by a homosexual couple, and raised well in fact, that at 16 years of age a pamela anderson playboy spread wouldnt have had the same effect on you that it would have otherwise?

now put it in reverse...say you had been raised to by two gay guys. say you thought that homosexuality was A-OK. Would that make you stare at a guys crotch and drool all of a sudden?

Ponder that for a while. When you're done pondering, the proof will set you free.


Sorry but having 2 fathers that take a nightly pounding in the ass is gotta have some effect on young children. I myself would never want to be raised like that thus why I am against it.

I may be wrong but that is what I beleive.

I understand you are either born gay or not. But psychology has a lot to do with it too, it's not 100% genetics. I am straight myself but I could easily sleep with a man tonight if I wanted to.

sorry, but again, a young innocent 0-7 year old IS affected psychologically having 2 fathers that hug and kiss each other in front of him. I myself would never want to be raised like that, thus why I am against it.

[Shastafarian]

Didn't god deceive Abraham into almost killing his own son? Then he was all, "JK, I wanted you to have compassion."

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry but having 2 fathers that take a nightly pounding in the ass is gotta have some effect on young children.1) How would a young child have knowledge of that in a normal situation?

2) How would that effect be different from a young child's knowing his straight parents have sex?

[Leonard Curse]

if that's one's beliefs, i support their right to say that.

however, i hope anybody throwing around the words "abomination to god" regarding gay marriage has NEVER eaten shrimp or crab.
:toast+1

[will_spurs]

Great timing for the post count!

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7016/captainc.jpg

:rollin

[Shastafarian]

Great timing for the post count!

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7016/captainc.jpg

:rollin

This leads to my winning card

HlSidenJ5-E

[rr2418]

All I could say is that I believe in God and do not support the gay lifestyle.

[polandprzem]

1) How would a young child have knowledge of that in a normal situation?

2) How would that effect be different from a young child's knowing his straight parents have sex?

It's about behavior and learning from the parents

Having 2 fathers is not right
same as having only mother or only father

[ChumpDumper]

It's about behavior and learning from the parents

Having 2 fathers is not right
same as having only mother or only fatherBut single-mother and -father families exist, as do gay-couple families.

What are you saying the children are learning from gay parents that is so terrible that it should be against the law?

Are you saying single-parent families should be outlawed as well?

[BacktoBasics]

Lots of bigoted self righteous assholes in this thread.

[polandprzem]

But single-mother and -father families exist, as do gay-couple families.

What are you saying the children are learning from gay parents that is so terrible that it should be against the law?

Are you saying single-parent families should be outlawed as well?

Nope

That is not what I meant

It means that it's pathology in a way to have gay parents.

Like it is to have a single parent. But first situation is different in a way that they are doing it on purpose [sorry at this time my english sucks as hell].


Fuck it CD

I'm not against gays but wtf - we had one of the biggest gay parades today in poland. Wtf for?

Partnerships under law yup

Adopting - nope

[Silver&Black]

I could care less what Manu is in support of. All I care about is whether he's tearing it up on the court in the playoffs.

:toast Well said....

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not against gays but wtf - we had one of the biggest gay parades today in poland. Wtf for?They like dressing up and gadding about. What does that have to do with their raising children?


Partnerships under law yup

Adopting - nopeNo one opposing gay couple adoption has explained what they think the negative consequences for the children in these situations are.

Please explain what you think the negative consequences for the children raised in these families are.

[polandprzem]

They like dressing up and gadding about. What does that have to do with their raising children?

That was other point.
I like to address everything in chaotic post




No one opposing gay couple adoption has explained what they think the negative consequences for the children in these situations are.

Please explain what you think the negative consequences for the children raised in these families are.
I do not have to explain.
It's simple fact learning by observation.
I can see from my example how being in a type of situation influenced my life and character. And how much easier my life would be if I had different environment.

[ChumpDumper]

I do not have to explain.
It's simple fact learning by observation.
I can see from my example how being in a type of situation influenced my life and character. And how much easier my life would be if I had different environment.Were you raised by a gay couple?

[polandprzem]

Were you raised by a gay couple?

No













































-----
CD:
So how would you possibly know how is to have 2 fathers and what damage can it cause ....








:rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

No
-----
CD:
So how would you possibly know how is to have 2 fathers and what damage can it cause ....

:rolleyesSo how would you possibly know how is to have 2 fathers and what damage can it cause?

[Blackjack]

I watched a couple episodes of My Two Dads.

[smrattler]

Why all the focus on the guy side of this?

Can we talk about the other side, gay women?

I am a big supporter of beautiful women getting it on.

.... go!

[DPG21920]

3 men & a baby worked out ok.

It is the foremost study on this topic.

[Blackjack]

Why all the focus on the guy side of this?

Can we talk about the other side, gay women?

I am a big supporter of beautiful women getting it on.

.... go!

I'm a doer not a voyeur -- they're too exclusionary.

[Blackjack]

3 men & a baby worked out ok.

It is the foremost study on this topic.

http://www.babble.com/CS/blogs/famecrawler/2009/06/my-two-dads.jpg

I haven't seen Staci Keanan in forever. Her fathers may have lost her or turned her into a homeless, gay crackwhore . . .

[smrattler]

I'm a doer not a voyeur -- they're too exclusionary.

I was really hoping someone would roll with that and contribute some timely pics. Did not work out for me. :depressed

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But I think Manu would agree with me about adoption, the poor adopted kid of a gay couple is gonna grow up to be a faggot cause he don't know any better :(

That might be one of the dumbest sentences I've ever read.

[urunobili]

one thing is for sure... str8 couples raise gay kids... :wakeup

[Blackjack]

You can move gay but you can't remove it . . .

[ChumpDumper]

jack sommerset's going to love this thread.

I mean really love it.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Seriously though, believing people "chose to be gay" is going against extremely basic logic. Why would someone make a conscious decision to be persecuted, to always feel like a fish out of water, to be unable to marry in most states, and to be thought of as not normal. Only a very small handful of people would willingly chose that lifestyle.

[DAF86]

What studies?
Sexual condition is based on your chilhood psycology. The human structure is defined from 0 to 6 years old. In that time you wheter identife with boys or girls.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/youre-born-gay-and-thats-according-qmuls-dr-rahman

[DAF86]

Another easily conditioned sheeple who believes the MSM.

The proceeding logic will probably go over your head, but I'll put it down for you anyway.

God cannot deceive (nor be deceived).
God condemns sodomy.
If God creates sodomites, then He deceives us and is evil. This is an impossibility.
God did give sodomites, as He gives all men, free will to know, love and serve God in this world so we can be happy with Him in the next. Those who misuse their gift of free will to choose a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance will be damned. Those who do not warn the sodomites of their path to Hell are UNcharitable and objectively sin by omission.

:lmao

[DAF86]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/06/28/gayby/index.html

[baseline bum]

Well you know that's a big relief, now I know that when I go to Hell Manu will be there too. Will be cool rootnig for him at the Hell vs Heaven All-Star Game, he's going to kick some serious ass!

:lol

Jesus is like a worse version of Roger Mason. Check this weak-ass defense.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k175/holdenmckock/gwar.gif

[baseline bum]

Another easily conditioned sheeple who believes the MSM.

The proceeding logic will probably go over your head, but I'll put it down for you anyway.

God cannot deceive (nor be deceived).
God condemns sodomy.
If God creates sodomites, then He deceives us and is evil. This is an impossibility.
God did give sodomites, as He gives all men, free will to know, love and serve God in this world so we can be happy with Him in the next. Those who misuse their gift of free will to choose a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance will be damned. Those who do not warn the sodomites of their path to Hell are UNcharitable and objectively sin by omission.

Why is evil god an impossibility? Haven't you read the old testament?

[TheSullyMonster]

Another easily conditioned sheeple who believes the MSM.

Man, I had no idea academic journals were mainstream media.:lol

Next you'll be telling me that engineering standards are all bullshit, and that the ASCE is just a pawn of construction companies and building suppliers to drum up more business, right?:wakeup


No one opposing gay couple adoption has explained what they think the negative consequences for the children in these situations are.

Please explain what you think the negative consequences for the children raised in these families are.

They're afraid that those children will turn out gay?(The horror!:wow Do you know how traumatic it is to see two men holding hands?!?!?!)

Or they're afraid of more people that will call them out on their bigotry.:ihit

[Dunc n Dave]

Actually, believing all gay people are "born gay" is very naive. A majority of the gay community use the "we were born this way" claim as their rallying cry to get people to empathize with them, as if it's the same as a birth defect or something.

Case in point:
MY parents have been long time friends with a gay female couple who were very successful business women in Austin, TX. Both of them, admittedly, did not take up the lesbian lifestyle until they were in their early 20's when the "realized they were gay." Before that point, the general public would consider them heterosexuals, as they either dated or were attracted to boys during their teen years

One of them was obviously the butch one (into fast cars, sports, electronics, didn't date much in HS because of her masculine tomboy features) and the other was the typical girl (dated men, into make up, clothes, etc). They were in a realtionship for nearly 10 years. When the more feminine one decided she wanted a kid, they used artificial insemination to get her pregnant and had a little girl together.

Fast forward 14 years... they have since split up. The masculine one was more interested in her cars and making money than settling down and raising a daughter, so she left the other one with the 3 year old daughter. The feminine one decided (or chose) that she wasn't gay anymore, had 2 relationships with men before finally marrying a 3rd guy, who she is still married to. The daughter (14 now and a god child to my parents) is a normal 14 year old girl who likes boys, name brand clothes, cell phones, etc. The more butch one is no longer a part of their lives.

When the feminine one went through the break up with her lesbian friend and eventually decided she wasn't gay anymore, my mother was the one she would come to for advice. After years of going with the gay anthem of "we can't help it, we were born this way" she admitted to my mother that she, in fact, CHOSE the gay lifestyle because she didn't like the way men treated her in the late 70's, and she felt women understood her more. Now after finding a good man, she realizes she's not gay anymore.

Here's the kicker: She never went on any medication for chemical imbalances in her brain that caused her to override her supposed "born gay" genes, she just decided, on her own to be heterosexual again and now lives a perfectly normal heterosexual married life.

[DAF86]

Actually, believing all gay people are "born gay" is very naive. A majority of the gay community use the "we were born this way" claim as their rallying cry to get people to empathize with them, as if it's the same as a birth defect or something.

Case in point:
MY parents have been long time friends with a gay female couple who were very successful business women in Austin, TX. Both of them, admittedly, did not take up the lesbian lifestyle until they were in their early 20's when the "realized they were gay." Before that point, the general public would consider them heterosexuals, as they either dated or were attracted to boys during their teen years

One of them was obviously the butch one (into fast cars, sports, electronics, didn't date much in HS because of her masculine tomboy features) and the other was the typical girl (dated men, into make up, clothes, etc). They were in a realtionship for nearly 10 years. When the more feminine one decided she wanted a kid, they used artificial insemination to get her pregnant and had a little girl together.

Fast forward 14 years... they have since split up. The masculine one was more interested in her cars and making money than settling down and raising a daughter, so she left the other one with the 3 year old daughter. The feminine one decided (or chose) that she wasn't gay anymore, had 2 relationships with men before finally marrying a 3rd guy, who she is still married to. The daughter (14 now and a god child to my parents) is a normal 14 year old girl who likes boys, name brand clothes, cell phones, etc. The more butch one is no longer a part of their lives.

When the feminine one went through the break up with her lesbian friend and eventually decided she wasn't gay anymore, my mother was the one she would come to for advice. After years of going with the gay anthem of "we can't help it, we were born this way" she admitted to my mother that she, in fact, CHOSE the gay lifestyle because she didn't like the way men treated her in the late 70's, and she felt women understood her more. Now after finding a good man, she realizes she's not gay anymore.

Here's the kicker: She never went on any medication for chemical imbalances in her brain that caused her to override her supposed "born gay" genes, she just decided, on her own to be heterosexual again and now lives a perfectly normal heterosexual married life.

I also have a lesbian friend that didn't "turn gay" until she was 22, she had tons of boyfriends and all that stuff, but then she decided to start dating women, when I asked her why she made that change she told me that she just stopped lying, she was a lesbian all along, she just didn't want to accept it at first.

[Dunc n Dave]

I also have a lesbian friend that didn't "turn gay" until she was 22, she had tons of boyfriends and all that stuff, but then she decided to start dating women, when I asked her why she made that change she told me that she just stopped lying, she was a lesbian all along, she just didn't want to accept it at first.

See that's my point: Many in the gay community use it as an excuse.

You want to choose an alternative lifestyle? So be it... Just don't try to get me to empathize with you by saying you were "born gay" and just didn't realize it until you were XX years old.

Being gay isn't a disease or birth defect, it is an alternative lifestyle you choose to follow, at whatever age you make that choice. Like I said, the girl ADMITTED to my mom she used it as an excuse to defend the fact that she CHOSE to be gay. She wasn't "gay the whole time and just didn't know it."

Otherwise why did she go back to being a married heterosexual for the past 10 years, if her brain wasn't made to function like a heterosexual's brain?

It's an overused and abused excuse, just like pleading temporary insanity when committing a murder. Many people don't want to be held responsible for the choices they make in life, so they latch onto the most popular excuse of the times.

[EmptyMan]

If teh gheys get married it does not hurt you.

If teh gheys adopt a baby and it happens to grow up into a wuss, that is better than being a p.o.s. orphan thug.

If it makes you happy and doesn't cause others harm or impede on their rights, have at it imo.

[ploto]

After years of going with the gay anthem of "we can't help it, we were born this way" she admitted to my mother that she, in fact, CHOSE the gay lifestyle because she didn't like the way men treated her in the late 70's, and she felt women understood her more. Now after finding a good man, she realizes she's not gay anymore.

Here's the kicker: She never went on any medication for chemical imbalances in her brain that caused her to override her supposed "born gay" genes, she just decided, on her own to be heterosexual again and now lives a perfectly normal heterosexual married life.

She was never gay. She chose to live a lifestyle that was a falsehood and she knew it. Just as there are gay people who choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle, but they are not actually heterosexual.

[Dunc n Dave]

She was never gay. She chose to live a lifestyle that was a falsehood and she knew it. Just as there are gay people who choose to live a heterosexual lifestyle, but they are not actually heterosexual.

:rolleyesBy whose definition? Yours?

She certainly would disagree, and so would her mate. Are you saying she was putting on an acting job for over 10 years? Damn, then sign her up for Hollywood...

She chose to be gay, just like she chose to be heterosexual again. It's a choice people make. PERIOD.

[ploto]

She certainly would disagree, and so would her mate.
Gay people have chosen to get married but that does not make them straight.


She chose to be gay, just like she chose to be heterosexual again. It's a choice people make.

Your friend chose to act gay because she hated men. That does not make her really gay.

[jack sommerset]

Mangoo must have sucked some dick in his day.

[Spurminator]

Move to Political forum means you all fail.

[ChumpDumper]

Mangoo must have sucked some dick in his day.Even if he didn't, you sure have thought about it.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Actually, believing all gay people are "born gay" is very naive. A majority of the gay community use the "we were born this way" claim as their rallying cry to get people to empathize with them, as if it's the same as a birth defect or something.

Case in point:
MY parents have been long time friends with a gay female couple who were very successful business women in Austin, TX. Both of them, admittedly, did not take up the lesbian lifestyle until they were in their early 20's when the "realized they were gay." Before that point, the general public would consider them heterosexuals, as they either dated or were attracted to boys during their teen years

One of them was obviously the butch one (into fast cars, sports, electronics, didn't date much in HS because of her masculine tomboy features) and the other was the typical girl (dated men, into make up, clothes, etc). They were in a realtionship for nearly 10 years. When the more feminine one decided she wanted a kid, they used artificial insemination to get her pregnant and had a little girl together.

Fast forward 14 years... they have since split up. The masculine one was more interested in her cars and making money than settling down and raising a daughter, so she left the other one with the 3 year old daughter. The feminine one decided (or chose) that she wasn't gay anymore, had 2 relationships with men before finally marrying a 3rd guy, who she is still married to. The daughter (14 now and a god child to my parents) is a normal 14 year old girl who likes boys, name brand clothes, cell phones, etc. The more butch one is no longer a part of their lives.

When the feminine one went through the break up with her lesbian friend and eventually decided she wasn't gay anymore, my mother was the one she would come to for advice. After years of going with the gay anthem of "we can't help it, we were born this way" she admitted to my mother that she, in fact, CHOSE the gay lifestyle because she didn't like the way men treated her in the late 70's, and she felt women understood her more. Now after finding a good man, she realizes she's not gay anymore.

Here's the kicker: She never went on any medication for chemical imbalances in her brain that caused her to override her supposed "born gay" genes, she just decided, on her own to be heterosexual again and now lives a perfectly normal heterosexual married life.

All that proves is that some people choose to experiment with their sexuality... what a revelation! :rolleyes

OTOH, we know that homosexuality is widely prevalent in nature - it has been observed in 1500 species, extensively documented in 500. Here's a link to Oslo Natural History museum which had an exhibition all about it:

http://www.nhm.uio.no/besokende/skiftende-utstillinger/againstnature/index-eng.html

So, we know that homosexuality is widespread in the animal kingdom - are these animals just choosing to experiment with their sexuality? Um, no. So why would they exhibit homosexuality? Genes, and prenatal hormones. There is a lot of peer reviewed science on this in humans.

Not all people who claim to be gay are biologically gay, but most are.

[Will Hunting]

Actually, believing all gay people are "born gay" is very naive. A majority of the gay community use the "we were born this way" claim as their rallying cry to get people to empathize with them, as if it's the same as a birth defect or something.

Case in point:
MY parents have been long time friends with a gay female couple who were very successful business women in Austin, TX. Both of them, admittedly, did not take up the lesbian lifestyle until they were in their early 20's when the "realized they were gay." Before that point, the general public would consider them heterosexuals, as they either dated or were attracted to boys during their teen years

One of them was obviously the butch one (into fast cars, sports, electronics, didn't date much in HS because of her masculine tomboy features) and the other was the typical girl (dated men, into make up, clothes, etc). They were in a realtionship for nearly 10 years. When the more feminine one decided she wanted a kid, they used artificial insemination to get her pregnant and had a little girl together.

Fast forward 14 years... they have since split up. The masculine one was more interested in her cars and making money than settling down and raising a daughter, so she left the other one with the 3 year old daughter. The feminine one decided (or chose) that she wasn't gay anymore, had 2 relationships with men before finally marrying a 3rd guy, who she is still married to. The daughter (14 now and a god child to my parents) is a normal 14 year old girl who likes boys, name brand clothes, cell phones, etc. The more butch one is no longer a part of their lives.

When the feminine one went through the break up with her lesbian friend and eventually decided she wasn't gay anymore, my mother was the one she would come to for advice. After years of going with the gay anthem of "we can't help it, we were born this way" she admitted to my mother that she, in fact, CHOSE the gay lifestyle because she didn't like the way men treated her in the late 70's, and she felt women understood her more. Now after finding a good man, she realizes she's not gay anymore.

Here's the kicker: She never went on any medication for chemical imbalances in her brain that caused her to override her supposed "born gay" genes, she just decided, on her own to be heterosexual again and now lives a perfectly normal heterosexual married life.


Yep, I'm sure people consciously make the decision to lead extremely unstable, fucked up lives. It's also funny that you generate the universal conclusion that all gay people chose to be gay based off one particular situation involving a woman who clearly had major mental issues.

None of this answers the question: Why would anyone chose to be gay? What would be the reason behind it? What about being gay makes life easier?

[Will Hunting]

Are you saying she was putting on an acting job for over 10 years? Damn, then sign her up for Hollywood...


If people consciously chose to be gay, then isn't all homosexual behavior "putting on an acting job"?

[Dunc n Dave]

All that proves is that some people choose to experiment with their sexuality... what a revelation! :rolleyes

OTOH, we know that homosexuality is widely prevalent in nature - it has been observed in 1500 species, extensively documented in 500. Here's a link to Oslo Natural History museum which had an exhibition all about it:

http://www.nhm.uio.no/besokende/skiftende-utstillinger/againstnature/index-eng.html

So, we know that homosexuality is widespread in the animal kingdom - are these animals just choosing to experiment with their sexuality? Um, no. So why would they exhibit homosexuality? Genes, and prenatal hormones. There is a lot of peer reviewed science on this in humans.

Not all people who claim to be gay are biologically gay, but most are.

You can't accurately compare humans to animals in this matter. Humans have the ability to reason and know right from wrong. Animals do not, they act on instincts; hence the term "animal instincts." If a human knows it is morally wrong to mate with the same sex, they make a choice to follow the moral laws or not to follow. An animal has no choice, as it does not know right from wrong: they act on instinct. Same with killing it's own kind. It feels no remorse for killing, like humans do.

How do you know most gays are biologically gay? Have you interviewed and run hormonal tests on hundreds or thousands of proclaimed gay people's brains and straight people to find a difference in their hormonal makeup? Has anyone? I'd like a link, please...

What you are claiming is impossible to prove in today's society.

It is a convenient excuse that many in the gay community use. I don't blame them for playing that card, though. It's easier to blame it on "your genes" than to admit you made a CHOICE that is unpopular with the majority of people or viewed by many as "immoral." Blaming it on genes will get people to feel sorry for you, because "it's not your fault" that "you are the way you are."

So all you have to do is claim you were gay all along and just didn't know it until you were ___ years old. Who's going to be able to prove otherwise? You're just a victim of genetics...:rolleyes

[Dunc n Dave]

Yep, I'm sure people consciously make the decision to lead extremely unstable, fucked up lives. It's also funny that you generate the universal conclusion that all gay people chose to be gay based off one particular situation involving a woman who clearly had major mental issues.

None of this answers the question: Why would anyone chose to be gay? What would be the reason behind it? What about being gay makes life easier?

First, the woman does not have "major mental issues." You would be adivsed not to make an ass of yourself by ASSuming such from one story you heard on a message board.

It's funny the same people who call out Christians for judging homosexuals and their lifestyle choices don't see the irony in the situation when they make comments about the mental state of Christians, simply because we believe what they DON'T believe, so we must be brain washed, or fanatics.

Second: Why would anyone choose to be gay? Good question...
Why would anyone choose to rape/murder someone, or become a heroin addict, or cut themselves, or commit suicide? How do doing those things improve life or make life easier? People have the ability to CHOOSE and reason. Some people don't do REASONING too well, and we'll never know what drives them to choose to do these things taht just make life more difficult for them.

[Dunc n Dave]

If people consciously chose to be gay, then isn't all homosexual behavior "putting on an acting job"?

The human mind is a scary thing. People can convince themselves of something, only to later convince themselves of the opposite. Example: addicts who don't think they "have a problem" despite everyone else seeing they DO.

[senorglory]

Jesus Christ, you anti-gays are some stupid faggots.

[DAF86]

First, the woman does not have "major mental issues." You would be adivsed not to make an ass of yourself by ASSuming such from one story you heard on a message board.

It's funny the same people who call out Christians for judging homosexuals and their lifestyle choices don't see the irony in the situation when they make comments about the mental state of Christians, simply because we believe what they DON'T believe, so we must be brain washed, or fanatics.

Second: Why would anyone choose to be gay? Good question...
Why would anyone choose to rape/murder someone, or become a heroin addict, or cut themselves, or commit suicide? How do doing those things improve life or make life easier? People have the ability to CHOOSE and reason. Some people don't do REASONING too well, and we'll never know what drives them to choose to do these things taht just make life more difficult for them.

Because they're mentally fucked up. Anyways you can't really compare those things to beign gay.

[DAF86]

You can't accurately compare humans to animals in this matter. Humans have the ability to reason and know right from wrong. Animals do not, they act on instincts; hence the term "animal instincts." If a human knows it is morally wrong to mate with the same sex, they make a choice to follow the moral laws or not to follow. An animal has no choice, as it does not know right from wrong: they act on instinct. Same with killing it's own kind. It feels no remorse for killing, like humans do.

How do you know most gays are biologically gay? Have you interviewed and run hormonal tests on hundreds or thousands of proclaimed gay people's brains and straight people to find a difference in their hormonal makeup? Has anyone? I'd like a link, please...

What you are claiming is impossible to prove in today's society.

It is a convenient excuse that many in the gay community use. I don't blame them for playing that card, though. It's easier to blame it on "your genes" than to admit you made a CHOICE that is unpopular with the majority of people or viewed by many as "immoral." Blaming it on genes will get people to feel sorry for you, because "it's not your fault" that "you are the way you are."

So all you have to do is claim you were gay all along and just didn't know it until you were ___ years old. Who's going to be able to prove otherwise? You're just a victim of genetics...:rolleyes

Who says that beign gay is morally wrong?

[spursncowboys]

If people consciously chose to be gay, then isn't all homosexual behavior "putting on an acting job"?

It's not your fault, Will.

[ploto]

So all you have to do is claim you were gay all along and just didn't know it until you were ___ years old.

Most gay people I know do not make this statement. They say they knew it from an early age.

[ALWAYS bet on BLACK]

this is just sad. does this mean manu is a closet fag?

[CaptainLate]

Why is evil god an impossibility? Haven't you read the old testament?

Yes, Larry B, I've read the OT. That is a just God.

God cannot be evil or produce evil. God cannot sin. You need to bone up on knowing the difference btwn evil and just.

[CaptainLate]

RC Buford was interviewed during the Spurs summer league game against the Clippers....I thought he shed a little bit of light on a few subjects.

-(On Manu coming back) Manu has been a big part of our program for a long time and you never want to lose, not only a player like that, but also a person who is one of the cornerstones of our character and our values -- and the real fiber of our team.

Dear RC, do the Spurs share Manu Ginobili's "values" supporting sodomite "marriages", and against God's laws on marriage? :married:

If that is the case, then it's time Christians took action :ihit against the Spurs organization.

[Shastafarian]

Dear RC, do the Spurs share Manu Ginobili's "values" supporting sodomite "marriages", and against God's laws on marriage? :married:

If that is the case, then it's time Christians took action :ihit against the Spurs organization.

Are you threatening the Spurs organization?

Why are you so against what other people do with their own lives?

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, Larry B, I've read the OT. That is a just God.

God cannot be evil or produce evil. God cannot sin. You need to bone up on knowing the difference btwn evil and just.Why can't God deceive?

Because you said so?

[ChumpDumper]

Dear RC, do the Spurs share Manu Ginobili's "values" supporting sodomite "marriages", and against God's laws on marriage? :married:

If that is the case, then it's time Christians took action :ihit against the Spurs organization.What "action"?

What if they just don't give a shit?

What if they aren't practicing Christians?

What if they hire Muslims?

[baseline bum]

Yes, Larry B, I've read the OT. That is a just God.

God cannot be evil or produce evil. God cannot sin. You need to bone up on knowing the difference btwn evil and just.

By axiom? Mas-murder seems like something pretty evil.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If a human knows it is morally wrong to mate with the same sex, they make a choice to follow the moral laws or not to follow.


Would you say the rather large number of Catholic Priests who sodomized alter boys didn't know homosexuality was "morally wrong"?

[baseline bum]

Dear RC, do the Spurs share Manu Ginobili's "values" supporting sodomite "marriages", and against God's laws on marriage? :married:

If that is the case, then it's time Christians took action :ihit against the Spurs organization.

What's your definition of action, Mr. Christian Taliban?

[jack sommerset]

Would you say the rather large number of Catholic Priests who sodomized alter boys didn't know homosexuality was "morally wrong"?

Some would argue it was Gods will that made those Priest fuck those boys in the ass. They were born that way!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Some would argue it was Gods will that made those Priest fuck those boys in the ass. They were born that way!


Neat little strawman.

Just out of curiosity, why are so many people bothered by gay marriage? If two gays you've never met and never will meet get married and spend their lives together, what harm does that impose on you? It's not like you're forced to go to their wedding and watch them mack it on the alter. They'll get married, move into a house together, and you'll never know about it.

[jack sommerset]

Neat little strawman.

Just out of curiosity, why are so many people bothered by gay marriage? If two gays you've never met and never will meet get married and spend their lives together, what harm does that impose on you? It's not like you're forced to go to their wedding and watch them mack it on the alter. They'll get married, move into a house together, and you'll never know about it.

If you say so.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158174

[spursncowboys]

What's your definition of action, Mr. Christian Taliban?
, there is no comparison of someone boycotting a company for not agreeing with their values and norms to killing someone for opening their door.

Gj allstar

[DarrinS]

My immediate reaction upon reading the title of this thread is:

Who gives a shit?

[baseline bum]

, there is no comparison of someone boycotting a company for not agreeing with their values and norms to killing someone for opening their door.

Gj allstar

I don't get the comparison. I called him Christian Taliban, not Christian Al Quaeda, you dumbass.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If you say so.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158174


Still doesn't answer my question regarding why so many people are bothered by gay marriage, what harm do two gay guys you don't even know getting married inflict on you?

[baseline bum]

Still doesn't answer my question regarding why so many people are bothered by gay marriage, what harm do two gay guys you don't even know getting married inflict on you?

That one's pretty obvious. It stops the church from getting a huge foothold into our nation's laws, and slows the descent of this nation's fall into becoming Christian Iran.

[spursncowboys]

I don't get the comparison. I called him Christian Taliban, not Christian Al Quaeda, you dumbass.

:lol
I bet you don't. Maybe you should.

Allstar

[jack sommerset]

Still doesn't answer my question regarding why so many people are bothered by gay marriage, what harm do two gay guys you don't even know getting married inflict on you?

I was just giving you a link to a recent thread. Thought it might help. I don't know why either. Let the fags get hitched!

.

[baseline bum]

:lol
I bet you don't. Maybe you should.

Allstar

Go create another sarcastic thread so you can get your ass kicked by everyone again, little boy.

[spursncowboys]

Go create another sarcastic thread so you can get your ass kicked by everyone again, little boy.

How did my butt get kicked?
Who is everyone?
Did you figure it out yet?

[baseline bum]

How did my butt get kicked?

Pretty Decisively. It was ugly.

[spursncowboys]

So did the Taliban kill people for opening their doors?

[DMX7]

The number of closet homosexual GOP congressmen is astonishing.

The degree to which they psychologically project probably has something to do with the GOP's hatred for openly gay people.

[spursncowboys]

link

[K-State Spur]

I've heard that Tim Duncan advocates eating shrimp - I expect the same amount of outrage by some of the bible thumpers regarding this point.

[admiralsnackbar]

I've heard that Tim Duncan advocates eating shrimp - I expect the same amount of outrage by some of the bible thumpers regarding this point.

And Alvin Robertson advocates keeping slaves... surely a good fundamentalist can defend that... right?

[urunobili]

link

http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2010/07/16/manu-ginobli-supports-gay-marriage/

[Blackjack]

Dear RC, do the Spurs share Manu Ginobili's "values" supporting sodomite "marriages", and against God's laws on marriage? :married:

If that is the case, then it's time Christians took action :ihit against the Spurs organization.

Yes, and have at it.

I love the ones that don't take much thought, time or energy. :)

[beachwood]

(... Some homosexuals will swear they were never sexually abused, but they have no way of knowing for sure.)

Wow.

Going by this argument, this also means that you could have been sexually abused as well huh? You can't prove that you weren't.

In fact, you may be homosexual and even if you're married with kids, that in and of itself doesn't prove you're not gay.

[Muser]

9 pages of the same stuff back and forth, wow.

[beachwood]

Actually, believing all gay people are "born gay" is very naive. A majority of the gay community use the "we were born this way" claim as their rallying cry to get people to empathize with them, as if it's the same as a birth defect or something.

Case in point:
MY parents have been long time friends with a gay female couple who were very successful business women in Austin, TX. Both of them, admittedly, did not take up the lesbian lifestyle until they were in their early 20's when the "realized they were gay." Before that point, the general public would consider them heterosexuals, as they either dated or were attracted to boys during their teen years

One of them was obviously the butch one (into fast cars, sports, electronics, didn't date much in HS because of her masculine tomboy features) and the other was the typical girl (dated men, into make up, clothes, etc). They were in a realtionship for nearly 10 years. When the more feminine one decided she wanted a kid, they used artificial insemination to get her pregnant and had a little girl together.

Fast forward 14 years... they have since split up. The masculine one was more interested in her cars and making money than settling down and raising a daughter, so she left the other one with the 3 year old daughter. The feminine one decided (or chose) that she wasn't gay anymore, had 2 relationships with men before finally marrying a 3rd guy, who she is still married to. The daughter (14 now and a god child to my parents) is a normal 14 year old girl who likes boys, name brand clothes, cell phones, etc. The more butch one is no longer a part of their lives.

When the feminine one went through the break up with her lesbian friend and eventually decided she wasn't gay anymore, my mother was the one she would come to for advice. After years of going with the gay anthem of "we can't help it, we were born this way" she admitted to my mother that she, in fact, CHOSE the gay lifestyle because she didn't like the way men treated her in the late 70's, and she felt women understood her more. Now after finding a good man, she realizes she's not gay anymore.

Here's the kicker: She never went on any medication for chemical imbalances in her brain that caused her to override her supposed "born gay" genes, she just decided, on her own to be heterosexual again and now lives a perfectly normal heterosexual married life.

Kinda sounds like your parent's friend wasn't really gay, but rather was experimenting and living in denial / suffered from psychological abuse by former male partner. Your story does nothing to disprove that gay people are born gay.

[beachwood]

What studies?
Sexual condition is based on your chilhood psycology. The human structure is defined from 0 to 6 years old. In that time you wheter identife with boys or girls.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7791888/

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html

[senorglory]

When Same-Sex Marriage Was A Christian Rite by Jinxi
http://www.jinxiboo.com/blog/2009/5/3/when-same-sex-marriage-was-a-christian-rite.html

Quoted in part:

[T]hat in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

These church rites had all the symbols of a heterosexual marriage: the whole community gathered in a church, a blessing of the couple before the altar was conducted with their right hands joined, holy vows were exchanged, a priest officiatied in the taking of the Eucharist and a wedding feast for the guests was celebrated afterwards. These elements all appear in contemporary illustrations of the holy union of the Byzantine Warrior-Emperor, Basil the First (867-886 CE) and his companion John.

Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12thand/ early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.

Same-sex unions in pre-modern Europe list in great detail some same gender ceremonies found in ancient church liturgical documents. One Greek 13th century rite, "Order for Solemn Same-Sex Union", invoked St. Serge and St. Bacchus, and called on God to "vouchsafe unto these, Thy servants [N and N], the grace to love one another and to abide without hate and not be the cause of scandal all the days of their lives, with the help of the Holy Mother of God, and all Thy saints". The ceremony concludes: "And they shall kiss the Holy Gospel and each other, and it shall be concluded".

Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.

[LnGrrrR]

I would say that one isn't born gay or straight, but born with tendencies towards gay or straight that are usually locked in by puberty. However, I would argue that one can't just change their sexuality on a whim; if sexuality does change, it is an subconscious change, and not realized until the change is nearly complete.

(ie. I can say "I'm going to pick up this egg" and then, pick it up. I can not say "I'm going to become gay" and then become so.)