David Robinson or Tim Duncan....Best Spur Ever?

[BadMotorscooter]

And I ask this in all aspects of the Spurs organization. Wins, Importance, Community, Loyalty,....

[mystargtr34]

1a
1b

[AVman]

timmy

[ezau]

1a and 1b

[TD 21]

This is not a slight to Robinson (which many always seem to take it as), but it's Duncan hands down. Duncan is widely regarded as one of the ten best players of all-time; Robinson is widely regarded as a fringe top twenty player all-time.

[Obstructed_View]

Out of respect for both of them, it's gotta be a tie.

[BadMotorscooter]

This is not a slight to Robinson (which many always seem to take it as), but it's Duncan hands down. Duncan is widely regarded as one of the ten best players of all-time; Robinson is widely regarded as a fringe top twenty player all-time.

On the floor, yes. But David saved this franchise. No David. No Spurs. Timmy would be playing in a different city right now. Spurs were ready to move when David came along. Just throwing that out there.

[baseline bum]

Manu

[spursfaninla]

The problem is that TD probably had better players surrounding him that DR.

DR's stats blow timmy away. TD's accomplishments blow DR away, because he was the best player on 4 championship teams.

DR's athleticism was much better, and DR was widely regarded as a better defender by those on the team.

Both were clearly great.

I do think they were in different circumstances, and it is hard to compare that.

I feel bad that DR never got to win it as the lead dog.

[montgod]

I agree with the 1a 1b designation because I honestly don't think Robinson had the support that Duncan had in being successful. Doesn't take away the fact that Duncan is the greatest PF ever, but it does allow the argument that David was an all time great center in his own right.

[montgod]

The problem is that TD probably had better players surrounding him that DR.

DR's stats blow timmy away. TD's accomplishments blow DR away, because he was the best player on 4 championship teams.

DR's athleticism was much better, and DR was widely regarded as a better defender by those on the team.

Both were clearly great.

I do think they were in different circumstances, and it is hard to compare that.

I feel bad that DR never got to win it as the lead dog.

You beat me to it... agree with your comments.

[ElNono]

Yes

[slick'81]

i cant choose

[coyotes_geek]

Basketball-wise, Duncan is the best player ever to wear a Spurs uniform. But David is the reason the Spurs are still in San Antonio and David's involvement in the community clearly adds an entirely different level to his greatness as a Spur. But, it's not really fair to Duncan to give David the edge as being the greatest Spur on those grounds because had Duncan got here first he very well could have been the guy to save the franchise and we don't know what Duncan's involvement with the Spurs and the San Antonio community beyond his playing days is going to be since he's still playing.

So, long answer short, it's an impossible question to answer.

[Blackjack]

On the court, Tim. No-brainer, and that's not a slight.

Off the court, David. Again, no-brainer, and again, not a slight.

[coyotes_geek]

Yes

:toast

The best answer yet.

/thread

[BadMotorscooter]

I dont know if on the court, that Tim is that much better than David. David was a monster with no cast...just like another poster pointed out. He was as smooth as silk and playing in the panit. Never saw a center with his speed.

[senorglory]

Robinson.

[TD 21]

On the floor, yes. But David saved this franchise. No David. No Spurs. Timmy would be playing in a different city right now. Spurs were ready to move when David came along. Just throwing that out there.

Robinson may have saved the franchise first, but that's only because he came along first. Duncan still saved them, though. Where would the Spurs be today if Duncan hadn't re-signed in '00? Would they even exist?

As for this argument about Robinson's stats, not to take anything away from him (his stats before before 96-97 are insane), but rather to put them into perspective, look at the era he played in.

No one in the league anymore averages even 3 bpg, let alone over 4. No big man puts up close to 30 ppg. Partially, that's due to the decline in great big men, but also because the game has changed. It's a guard oriented game now. I would argue that Duncan's numbers before 05-06 were at least close to Robinson's peak seasons if you adjust for era.

Since people bring up Duncan having played with better teammates, factor that in too. As we saw in the playoffs many a season, if Duncan needed/wanted to, he could have put up even better numbers than he did. You can't on the one hand praise him for his unselfishness, then on the other hand use it against him to prop up Robinson.

[barbacoataco]

The problem is that TD probably had better players surrounding him that DR.

DR's stats blow timmy away. TD's accomplishments blow DR away, because he was the best player on 4 championship teams.

DR's athleticism was much better, and DR was widely regarded as a better defender by those on the team.

Both were clearly great.

I do think they were in different circumstances, and it is hard to compare that.

I feel bad that DR never got to win it as the lead dog.

Agree with all this.

[smrattler]

I don't think I can choose.

But let me ask it this way: going head to head, in their prime, surrounded by equal teamates, who gets the better of the individual matchup?

In their prime, I think David would overwhelm TD in a head to head match like that.

[Juanobili]

http://mattsfilmcellar.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/brick.jpg

I don't know.

[Nathan89]

I don't think I can choose.

But let me ask it this way: going head to head, in their prime, surrounded by equal teamates, who gets the better of the individual matchup?

In their prime, I think David would overwhelm TD in a head to head match like that.

As for the surrounding talent duncan has won more championships with less talent then any superstar in history of the nba. Thats why he is by far the greatest player of this decade over kobe. However, he probably did have more talent then david. In their prime I think duncan would torch any big to ever play the game. He had so many moves offensively. Nobody could stop him not even david. David is like a much better KG though and a great big in his own right.

[barbacoataco]

I don't think I can choose.

But let me ask it this way: going head to head, in their prime, surrounded by equal teamates, who gets the better of the individual matchup?

In their prime, I think David would overwhelm TD in a head to head match like that.

The TD of 2003 wouldn't be "overwhelmed" by any player ever.

[Dex]

Without Tim, no titles.

Without David, no Tim.

This is one of those chicken-and-the-egg questions.

[mattyc]

On the court, Tim. No-brainer, and that's not a slight.

Off the court, David. Again, no-brainer, and again, not a slight.

Correct. If it wasn't for DRob, we wouldn't have a team.

[YODA]

Seems alot of people think David didnt play with any good players on his teams. I looked up 1990-91. the players
DR
Terry Cummings
Sean Elliott
Willie Anderson
Rod Strickland

To include a bench of
Avery Johnson
Paul PRessley
David Greenwood
David Wingate
Reggie Williams

DRobinson- best Center Spurs ever had
Cummings- 2nd best PW after TD
Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_- best SF spurs ever had
Willie anderson -top 5 shooting gaurds spurs ever had
Rod Strickland- best point gaurd spurs ever had

Seems David played with some of the best Spurs players in history and he still got his stats. Love for both, David better athlete, Tim the smarter one in basketball.

[barbacoataco]

In 1990-91 they had talent but they were young and hadn't played that much together. In 1994-96 when DRob was in his prime, the Spurs had a weak backcourt of Avery and Del Negro. How are you going to win a championship with those two as guards?

[tmtcsc]

Off the court, its David Robison hands down. He's been a tremendous person for this community and saved this franchise a couple of times. Couple that with his Top 50 players of all time ranking, MVP and scoring title, I'd give him a tie with Tim.

Tim was an absolute stud on the court and the best player to ever wear the silver and black. His personality kept him out of the spotlight but when it came to winning jewelry, he was the best thing that ever happened to the Spurs on the court.

Tough call, but I give it a tie......or a slight edge to Tim because when it comes down to it, no one gives a shit about nice. They just want titles.

[barbacoataco]

The tie-breaker might be that Duncan is more clutch. On the other hand, switch Ginobili for Del Negro on the mid 90's Spurs and maybe DRob would have won a championship pre-1999.

[ambchang]

The year Robinson had a competent point guard and PF on his team, when Robinson was a rookie, the team went 7 games with the eventual finalist TrailBlazers.

Was it Robinon's fault that he had Avery Johnson as his starting point guard, and Vinny Del Negro as his starting SG for most of his prime? Outside of Sean Elliott and Robinson, no-one on the Spurs could create a shot, and Elliott wasn't that great at creating his own shot.

I mean, just look at the roster! Antoine Carr? Lloyd Daniels? JR Reid? A 75 year old Dale Ellis and a 67 year old Rifleman? I love those guys, but come on, you can't even put a prime Chamberlain, Kareem, or Russell on that team to make it win. You just can't.

And the coaches! Man! After Larry Brown left, Jerry Tarkanian? Bob Hill? John Lucas? Is it a coincidence that 2 of the other 3 never ever got another head coaching gig, and Lucas never even had another 30-win season after the Spurs? And when Brown was here, the Spurs actually did pretty decently in the playoffs (well, other than 91).

Not saying Robinson > Duncan, but Robinson never was given the credit he was due as a basketball player. He was underrated because of one single series, when the opposite team was triple teaming him throughout, and his PF was jacking up three pointers just for fun in an important playoff series. He was one of the greatest defensive player of all time, he can score any where within 18 feet of the basket, he was quicker than most SF, he was a monster on the court.

[Leonard Curse]

at first it seems like its duncan right away, but when u say "spur" and think about it. its def David Robinson i mean Drob still goes to the games 7yrs after retirement and i really dont think well see 2 much of timmy when he retires. its like saying who was better lincoln or jfk? well one paved the way for the other to follow and succeed. was that lame ? haha

[spursfan1000]

I once got into an argument with a "new school" basketball player on why Tim Duncan was better than LeBron, and in a way I can see where this can come into play in the Robinson vs Duncan argument as well. Basically, when building a player from head to toe to win a championship Tim Duncan has absolutely everything you can possibly need and want- with the exception of excitement. Tim is boring to the casual fan. Now an old school guy like myself could watch Duncan play all day. Sure he doesn't to the eye popping dunks like Robinson could, but the way Duncan finds angles and openings in the defense, works hard to create a shot, plays smart, takes his time and quietly does what he does is insane. I remember just this year at the Timberwolves game in December a buddy of mine went to a game with me. Maybe half way through the second quarter he says to me, "Man, Tim isn't playing that well is he?" I responded that it didn't look like it. I look up at his stats and Tim had something like 16 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists and I knew he had a couple blocks I kept track of on my own. So both me and my buddy were wrong.

Had Tim made a few monster dunks and had half the stats with a few turnovers (a bad game aside from the dunks basically) it would only take another big dunk for the fans to think that Tim was dominating the game, when in fact it was all show.

I know I'm going on and on a bit, but basically I see Duncan as a throw back player who is all about the game and not about the show. It's great to see athletic ability put to use by dunking all over someone, but what Tim Duncan does night in and night out since he became a star at Wake is truly more amazing than anything a player like LeBron can do with his crazy athletic ability. And that's the honest truth.

I 100% agree with you

[Leonard Curse]

they are both incredible athletes who were top players at their own positions in their prime however Robinson built the spurs character and timmy reinforced it. timmy is amazing but he never dropped what?!? 72pts or 71? i still remember that game on the against the clipps

[barbacoataco]

The year Robinson had a competent point guard and PF on his team, when Robinson was a rookie, the team went 7 games with the eventual finalist TrailBlazers.

Was it Robinon's fault that he had Avery Johnson as his starting point guard, and Vinny Del Negro as his starting SG for most of his prime? Outside of Sean Elliott and Robinson, no-one on the Spurs could create a shot, and Elliott wasn't that great at creating his own shot.

I mean, just look at the roster! Antoine Carr? Lloyd Daniels? JR Reid? A 75 year old Dale Ellis and a 67 year old Rifleman? I love those guys, but come on, you can't even put a prime Chamberlain, Kareem, or Russell on that team to make it win. You just can't.

And the coaches! Man! After Larry Brown left, Jerry Tarkanian? Bob Hill? John Lucas? Is it a coincidence that 2 of the other 3 never ever got another head coaching gig, and Lucas never even had another 30-win season after the Spurs? And when Brown was here, the Spurs actually did pretty decently in the playoffs (well, other than 91).

Not saying Robinson > Duncan, but Robinson never was given the credit he was due as a basketball player. He was underrated because of one single series, when the opposite team was triple teaming him throughout, and his PF was jacking up three pointers just for fun in an important playoff series. He was one of the greatest defensive player of all time, he can score any where within 18 feet of the basket, he was quicker than most SF, he was a monster on the court.

This. Younger fans who weren't there have put too much weight into the 95 rockets series and see that as the proof that DRob wasn't in Hakeem,Shaq,Duncan's class. But the fact is that they were double and triple teaming Robinson. Houston's 3 pt shooters won that series, and Hakeem was at his peak. But Robinson was a great player who dominated on a superstar level.

Also, as far as Robinson's stats- it is true that player's in his era had higher scoring, rebounding, blocking etc. than today's top players. However, Robinson LED THE LEAGUE in numerous stats such as scoring, rebounding, blocks, PER which means that relative to his league he still was dominant.

[dbreiden83080]

IT's of course Tim

Come on....

[dbreiden83080]

This is not a slight to Robinson (which many always seem to take it as), but it's Duncan hands down. Duncan is widely regarded as one of the ten best players of all-time; Robinson is widely regarded as a fringe top twenty player all-time.

Unfair as it may be most people i feel put Robinson in the same class with guys like Barkley and Ewing. In that they feel he never wins a ring without Duncan (Which is true) but i feel he is a better player than both Ewing and Barkley..

I seem to remember years ago suggesting Ewing and D-Rob were close and the reaction around here was lets just say less then kind.. :lol

[Neutral Guy]

My heart says maybe!

[barbacoataco]

Unfair as it may be most people i feel put Robinson in the same class with guys like Barkley and Ewing. In that they feel he never wins a ring without Duncan (Which is true) but i feel he is a better player than both Ewing and Barkley..

I seem to remember years ago suggesting Ewing and D-Rob were close and the reaction around here was lets just say less then kind.. :lol

Charles Barkley was way better than Ewing.

[dbreiden83080]

I see Duncan as a throw back player who is all about the game and not about the show. It's great to see athletic ability put to use by dunking all over someone, but what Tim Duncan does night in and night out since he became a star at Wake is truly more amazing than anything a player like LeBron can do with his crazy athletic ability. And that's the honest truth.

Yo this shit is Sig Worthy man

Kudos to you.. :toast

[dbreiden83080]

Charles Barkley was way better than Ewing.

Barkley by his own admission could not defend his own grandma

Ewing was a very good defender..

[mingus]

Wasn't old enough to remember robinson in his prime, sadly. from the videos I've seen he looked incredible though.

[Leonard Curse]

I once got into an argument with a "new school" basketball player on why Tim Duncan was better than LeBron, and in a way I can see where this can come into play in the Robinson vs Duncan argument as well. Basically, when building a player from head to toe to win a championship Tim Duncan has absolutely everything you can possibly need and want- with the exception of excitement. Tim is boring to the casual fan. Now an old school guy like myself could watch Duncan play all day. Sure he doesn't to the eye popping dunks like Robinson could, but the way Duncan finds angles and openings in the defense, works hard to create a shot, plays smart, takes his time and quietly does what he does is insane. I remember just this year at the Timberwolves game in December a buddy of mine went to a game with me. Maybe half way through the second quarter he says to me, "Man, Tim isn't playing that well is he?" I responded that it didn't look like it. I look up at his stats and Tim had something like 16 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists and I knew he had a couple blocks I kept track of on my own. So both me and my buddy were wrong.

Had Tim made a few monster dunks and had half the stats with a few turnovers (a bad game aside from the dunks basically) it would only take another big dunk for the fans to think that Tim was dominating the game, when in fact it was all show.

I know I'm going on and on a bit, but basically I see Duncan as a throw back player who is all about the game and not about the show. It's great to see athletic ability put to use by dunking all over someone, but what Tim Duncan does night in and night out since he became a star at Wake is truly more amazing than anything a player like LeBron can do with his crazy athletic ability. And that's the honest truth.


i did the same thing at games i would always say to myself damn whats wrong with timmy then i look up and see his stats and i swear i thought it was wrong because his baskets are so quiet. like u said even to this day hes embarrassing 20yr 1st round draft picks. timmy is the better basketball player but i think D rob shaped our org. its really hard to say because timmy has so many rings and did it w/out d rob but when i think spurs i think David then Timmy. this is too much stress i love em both

[SpurCharger]

David Robinson Is my Favorite Player of All Time..... But I Gotta Give The Nod To Tim Duncan On this one....

[barbacoataco]

Barkley by his own admission could not defend his own grandma

Ewing was a very good defender..

Barkley has become a joke since going on TV. But he was a great player in his prime. His defense was better than you think. He was very strong and hard to back down. Ewing on the other hand was overrated and overhyped because he played for georgetown and then in N.Y.

[dbreiden83080]

Barkley has become a joke since going on TV. But he was a great player in his prime. His defense was better than you think. He was very strong and hard to back down. Ewing on the other hand was overrated and overhyped because he played for georgetown and then in N.Y.

I live in NY so i watched his whole career.. He was a great player that was less than what his hype was coming out of college. But Ewing was a good leader who was very close a couple of times to winning it all. Playing against Jordan Bulls so many years in the playoffs was never easy and they were damn close a few times to getting by them.. The 92,93,94 and 97 Knicks all could have been champs, if a few breaks went their way..

[barbacoataco]

I live in NY so i watched his whole career.. He was a great player that was less than what his hype was coming out of college. But Ewing was a good leader who was very close a couple of times to winning it all. Playing against Jordan Bulls so many years in the playoffs was never easy and they were damn close a few times to getting by them.. The 92,93,94 and 97 Knicks all could have been champs, if a few breaks went their way..

True. In a different time and place those teams easily could have won championships. That is one of the reasons it isn't fair to knock players like Barkley, Ewing, Malone etc. down a notch because they never won championships as the top dog.

[Gutter92]

I feel bad that DR never got to win it as the lead dog.

Though DR does not regret it.

And that's what truly makes him a special player.

Tie IMO.

[silverblackfan]

Great question and one that I hate to answer. First, gut response is David, because of what he has done for the Spurs and then for being just a great human being. After a bit of thought though, I have to say that Tim is the best Spur. The four rings, the 11+ years of franchise dominance, the ability to raise his game and carry the team at this stage of his career, and his simple humbleness.
The Spurs remain one of the best loyalties that I, as a fan, have ever held, and that David and Tim are so awesome make this even better.

[ezau]

This is not a slight to Robinson (which many always seem to take it as), but it's Duncan hands down. Duncan is widely regarded as one of the ten best players of all-time; Robinson is widely regarded as a fringe top twenty player all-time.

Robinson was highly influential in convincing Timmy to stay when he was a free agent.

Robinson 1a
Duncan 1b

[ezau]

I once got into an argument with a "new school" basketball player on why Tim Duncan was better than LeBron, and in a way I can see where this can come into play in the Robinson vs Duncan argument as well. Basically, when building a player from head to toe to win a championship Tim Duncan has absolutely everything you can possibly need and want- with the exception of excitement. Tim is boring to the casual fan. Now an old school guy like myself could watch Duncan play all day. Sure he doesn't to the eye popping dunks like Robinson could, but the way Duncan finds angles and openings in the defense, works hard to create a shot, plays smart, takes his time and quietly does what he does is insane. I remember just this year at the Timberwolves game in December a buddy of mine went to a game with me. Maybe half way through the second quarter he says to me, "Man, Tim isn't playing that well is he?" I responded that it didn't look like it. I look up at his stats and Tim had something like 16 points, 8 rebounds, 4 assists and I knew he had a couple blocks I kept track of on my own. So both me and my buddy were wrong.

Had Tim made a few monster dunks and had half the stats with a few turnovers (a bad game aside from the dunks basically) it would only take another big dunk for the fans to think that Tim was dominating the game, when in fact it was all show.

I know I'm going on and on a bit, but basically I see Duncan as a throw back player who is all about the game and not about the show. It's great to see athletic ability put to use by dunking all over someone, but what Tim Duncan does night in and night out since he became a star at Wake is truly more amazing than anything a player like LeBron can do with his crazy athletic ability. And that's the honest truth.

Duncan's accomplishments trumps everything LeGone did in his entire career

[ajh18]

For those who aren't old enough or weren't Spurs fans in David's prime, the best description I can come up with is a combination of Dwight Howard on defense (but smarter), Amare on offense (obviously, smarter), and somewhere in between the two on the boards. David was an athletic freak of nature.

And yet as a basketball player? I STILL take Tim Duncan over David. That's how good Tim was in his prime, plus, Tim Duncan's game relies much less on athleticism and is more effective in the slower-paced, halfcourt playoffs. Tim Duncan is the better overall player, though it's closer than many think and David is vastly underrated by the media and most NBA fans.

That said, David Robinson is the embodiment of what makes the Spurs great. From taking less money for the team, to voluntarily giving up his role as primary scorer to a second year forward, to lobbying Tim to stay in SA, to putting charater, community, and citizenship ahead of money or personal glory... Robinson established the foundation of what Spurs basketball is. Tim ceding the primary scoring load to Manu and Parker at times? Spurs taking less money for the good of the team? The Spurs coming to be known as an organization that values character even over talent? The Spurs' relationship with the community? All of these characteristics can, I believe, be traced back to David Robinson.

I take Tim on the court, but David Robinson is the more valuable Spur.

[Waps1980]

I'd have to say Robinson, TD owes a lot to Robinson mostly putting the spurs in the position to drive for titles and teaching Timmy all his tricks.
Stats David over Tim, But Tim has rings but he also had better players around him to help bring those rings. Robinson was a 1 man mountain.

Stats though right now are close but Timmy still has stats dropping every year he plays more, and he may never step aside for someone, like David did not cos he doesn't want to but cos he may not have someone along side of him with the ability to take his spot.

[Blackjack]

If you put a gun to my head and just asked who's the No. 1 Spur, it's got to be David. There might not be a single player more important to his team or community in the history of the NBA. You can argue more important players in the grand scheme of things, but not necessarily to their respective franchise.

But there's really no argument to be made that Dave was a better player than Tim. I watched Dave his whole career. He was and still is a hero of mine. But Dave didn't have the post game or offensive repertoire of Tim and though he was a more prolific shot-blocker, Tim's one of the best team defenders the league's ever seen.

You could never take Tim out of a game because his game was so complete. And if you're honest with yourself, you couldn't say the same for Dave -- I just don't like when this discussion devolves into demeaning either one. It's differentiating between greatness, not good or bad or even great and good.

[Muser]

Like Blackjack said, David was so important to the Spurs survival, and even now after he's retired he has set up his Academy in San Antonio aswell as other charitable causes. The best Spurs as a human being had to be DR, as a player it's Duncan.

[Spurs Brazil]

On the court, Tim. No-brainer, and that's not a slight.

Off the court, David. Again, no-brainer, and again, not a slight.

:tu

[Trill Clinton]

David Robinson...his work off the court tips the scale in his favor...I don't see timmy being that involved with the community after he retires...I think he's gonna turn into a pot smoking hippie and disappear off the face of the earth.

[spursncowboys]

would duncan had been able to do what robinson did if duncan was by himself? Duncan had robinson, manu, parker, d. anderson, and a huge amount more of talent that robinson never had with mccomb's cheapskate ass.
if robinson was put in a situation where the spurs were with a stable coach, a system, and want to go out and get talent then robinson would have def done more.

[TDMVPDPOY]

without robinson, spurs wouldve reallocated

[lotr1trekkie]

David will always be the face of this franchise. Tim is probably the most skilled player to wear the black and silver. Question is ambiguous.

[mudyez]

best spur: timmy

most important: tie

[johnnySpurs]

In this poll, I have to go with David Robinson without a second thought. Seems like very few around here actually had an opportunity to watch David play. David Robinson was a stud on both ends of the floor. As great as we know Tim Duncans defense to have been in his prime, David Robinson was better. He was a more intimidating presence in the paint than Duncan and for a big man he was an amazing ball thief.

The most blocks Tim Duncan has ever made in a single season was 237. David Robinson eclipsed this number 7 times over the course of his career including 3 300+ block seasons. Robinson's career average in steals has to be around 1.5 where Duncan likely is below 1.0. Over the course of his prime, Robinson was a 25ppg player while Duncan has remained consistently at around 20ppg. Robinson has a 70+ point game under his belt (granted.... it was a bit inflated), as well as one of the leagues 4 recorded regular season quadruple doubles.

David Robinson played and excelled in a league dominated by extremely talented PFs and C's. The likes of Olajuwon, Malone, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq all in their youth and prime. These are players who's game dwarfs the likes of a Pau Gasol.

I've followed San Antonio since '87 and obviously the careers of both Spurs greats. I may be wrong, but I think a lot of people who so easily dismiss Robinson either did not get an opportunity to see him on the court, OR caught him toward the end of his career which unfortunately was hampered by foot and back injuries.

As Spurs fans, we are lucky to have been able to transition from David Robinson immediately to Tim Duncan. In a few short years we'll be able to look back at the last 20 or so years and come to the realization that this franchise has spoiled by treating us to two dominant forces that few other teams have been able to provide their fans.

Whichever you choose, be it Tim Duncan or David Robinson... I don't think there is really a 'wrong' answer to this.

[kjhip1]

I've always said that if Robinson would have ever went against Jordan and the Bulls, the Bulls would have had a very hard time, possibly even losing. The Bulls always had problems with athletic centers. I always felt the Spurs played the Bulls so evenly. Although Jordan did go up against Ewing and won almost all the time, to compare Ewing's athleticism to Robinson's is a complete farce. Robinson just couldn't get his team past the Rockets, Jazz, and Suns...I would have killed to see Robinson against Jordan in the finals...

Having said all that, I see Timmy as a notch better then David. David relied on running up and down the court as well as his jumper. timmy had more efficient moves in the post as well as a slightly better IQ on the court. That's not to take away David's ability to alter games just like Timmy, however I just can't put DRob over TD. I'm still very thankful DRob went out a champion. Its obvious DRob was an inspiration the city of SA as his faith is what was enduring about his career. The man never gave up hope!

[dbreiden83080]

I think he's gonna turn into a pot smoking hippie and disappear off the face of the earth.


Isn't that the american dream???

[DesignatedT]

Timothy Duncan period

[DesignatedT]

In this poll, I have to go with David Robinson without a second thought. Seems like very few around here actually had an opportunity to watch David play. David Robinson was a stud on both ends of the floor. As great as we know Tim Duncans defense to have been in his prime, David Robinson was better. He was a more intimidating presence in the paint than Duncan and for a big man he was an amazing ball thief.

The most blocks Tim Duncan has ever made in a single season was 237. David Robinson eclipsed this number 7 times over the course of his career including 3 300+ block seasons. Robinson's career average in steals has to be around 1.5 where Duncan likely is below 1.0. Over the course of his prime, Robinson was a 25ppg player while Duncan has remained consistently at around 20ppg. Robinson has a 70+ point game under his belt (granted.... it was a bit inflated), as well as one of the leagues 4 recorded regular season quadruple doubles.

David Robinson played and excelled in a league dominated by extremely talented PFs and C's. The likes of Olajuwon, Malone, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq all in their youth and prime. These are players who's game dwarfs the likes of a Pau Gasol.

I've followed San Antonio since '87 and obviously the careers of both Spurs greats. I may be wrong, but I think a lot of people who so easily dismiss Robinson either did not get an opportunity to see him on the court, OR caught him toward the end of his career which unfortunately was hampered by foot and back injuries.

As Spurs fans, we are lucky to have been able to transition from David Robinson immediately to Tim Duncan. In a few short years we'll be able to look back at the last 20 or so years and come to the realization that this franchise has spoiled by treating us to two dominant forces that few other teams have been able to provide their fans.

Whichever you choose, be it Tim Duncan or David Robinson... I don't think there is really a 'wrong' answer to this.

Are you trying to say that Robinson was a better player than Duncan? As much as I love and respect Drob, there is no way he was a better player than Duncan. Seems like the people who did get to see him play remember him being an extremely athletic big man who provided us with many spectacular highlights, something Duncan has never been able to do. The same people would say Garnett was a better player than Duncan all because he was more athletic and could perform badass dunks.

It's not even close. Duncan>Robinson.

[Cane]

Almost like the chicken or the egg kind of deal. Without Robinson, the Spurs probably wouldn't be in SA and Duncan would've had to lead the Spurs without a MVP/DPOY/incredible sportsman of a big man mentoring him which means less or no titles. Without Duncan, D-Rob wouldn't have a future HOF'er with young legs helping him in the paint which means no titles at all for Robinson.

I pick David Robinson though, he's led an amazing life thats a perfect role model for San Antonio especially since he's got a military background and his service to the community. D-Rob's story of not only being a NBA HOFer but also a guy that graduated from the Naval Academy and majored in mathematics, Carver Academy, etc....incredible.

D-Rob's prime > Duncan's and any other modern big not named Shaq or Hakeem.

[Silver&Black]

1a. Timmy
1b. Admiral
1c. Iceman

[HarlemHeat37]

Adding to what everybody else has already said, I agree with Duncan being the best player on the court, while Robinson is more of the face of the franchise for a variety of reasons..

You can make the argument that David Robinson was better than Timmy in the regular season, I would say it's a valid argument..Admiral is one of the most underrated players in NBA history IMO, a lot of it due to the series vs. Hakeem, which seems to be what most of today's fans remember him for..a lot of people seem to have forgotten how much of a physical freak he was..Dwight Howard + a mid-range J + more polished overall game, which is unreal if you think about it..

However, there's very little doubt that Duncan is a better playoff performer..Tim's style of play translates to the playoffs a lot better than Robinson's face-up style of play did..while there's no doubt that Duncan had much better teammates, his overall game has always risen in the playoffs, while David's game often regressed, a lot of it due to the style of play IMO..

[smrattler]

I think people still think of David as a great defender, one of the best ever in that area. But I think many have forgotten exactly how great David's defense was.

Great on the ball, he was so long and athletic that few could get high percentage shots off on him. But also great help-side, I don't think I've ever seen anyone cover the whole paint like him when he was at his best. He altered every shot in the paint almost.

In his prime, he alone was our interior defense and I don't know about his per game minutes but he seemed to play the whole game without tiring.

Also, IMO, he might have peaked offensively later, but I think his defense took the NBA by surprise the minute he stepped out there his first year. Just a freak. So, not sure what year his prime was anyway.

Still, having said all of that, Tim has the "greatness". The playoff greatness. The ability to make everyone around him better when the stakes are their highest. The coolness, clutchness. Maybe that's where the real difference is.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Here's the litmus test--switch the players' careers in retrospective and ask yourself if the Spurs would've accomplished all they have in the last 2 decades or so. No disrespect to Timmyat all, but I have never seen a mutual embrace between a player and community as strong as the one between Robinson and the San Antonio area. Part of it is personality--David simply has the charisma that Duncan never had or will have, and that's what endeared him (and, by proxy, the Spurs) to the city of San Antonio. Could Duncan have done the same thing? Yes, but it would have been much different. The Spurs needed a vocal leader in love with the community to stay in South Texas, and they found that in spades with David Robinson.

The other issue is personnel. Give The Admiral in his prime a Parker/Ginobili backcourt and we're talking about a team that would terrorize the league in a fashion rarely seen. People just don't realize how good David was back in the day--to call him an Amare/Howard combo is even an understatement, in my opinion. That said, Timmy is still the better player--his game's efficiency gives him the edge that makes him more reliable in pressure situations. When Robinson was having a bad game, everybody knew it--Tim can dominate a game and you not even realize it till it's too late to do a goddamn thing about the roll he's on. That's a devastating psychological edge.

But the question was who is the best SPUR, not the best basketball player, so imma have to go with The Admiral. Unfair or not, David's personality is what kept this franchise here and ultimately opened the door for later Spurs like Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker to have unprecedented success in the Alamo City. David Robinson is the epitome of what it means to wear the Silver and Black.

[Gregzilla]

Greatest SPUR? Robinson
Greatest spurs PLAYER? Duncan

[Josepatches_]

On the court Tim Duncan by far.
Robinson was great but i'd say even in his prime he wasn't the best player/center of the league while Duncan was the best player of the world in 2003 and at least as good as Olajuwon was in the 90's.

Off the court i'd say tie.

[ambchang]

True. In a different time and place those teams easily could have won championships. That is one of the reasons it isn't fair to knock players like Barkley, Ewing, Malone etc. down a notch because they never won championships as the top dog.

You can knock Malone down a million notches and I would be happy about it. I am glad his pedophile butt never won a championship, that overrated choker.

[smrattler]

On the court Tim Duncan by far.
Robinson was great but i'd say even in his prime he wasn't the best player/center of the league while Duncan was the best player of the world in 2003 and at least as good as Olajuwon was in the 90's.

Off the court i'd say tie.

Tim is a great guy and seems like a wonderful person overall. This is not to knock on him in any way whatsoever.

But David in the S.A. community has personally changed thousands of lives and families with his hands-on contributions. You can not over estimate how much his work, especially with the Carver Academy, has meant to people that have benefitted from it.

Lots of ultra-rich superstars talk the game, this guy put his money where his beliefs were and put in the work himself when needed.

A truely amazing human being.

The world needs more people like this man.

[ambchang]

BTW, I think one thing I have to say is, Robinson embodies what the Spurs are about. I can't think of one single player who represents a team more than Robinson represents the San Antonio Spurs. Not even Michael Jordan can represent the Bulls more than Robinson represents the Spurs.

Who else can you say, "If it wasn't for that particular player, there wouldn't be that team."? There is none! You can't say that for Jordan and the Bulls. If it wasn't for Jordan, the Bulls would suck, but they wouldn't disappear. Besides, who can forget the constant fighting Jordan had with Krause throughout his career, the Kukoc fiasco, the Wizard hiatus, and the embarrasing HoF induction speech?

You can say it to some sense that Magic and Bird represents the Lakers and the Celtics because they saved the league, but the fact is, the Spurs, other than the Iceman and Duncan, doesn't really have players of the calibers of the Chamberlains (didn't start with Lakers), Jabbar (didn't start with Lakers), Havlicek, Russell, Cousy, Cowens, or West did. In other words, as much as I hate to say it, the Spurs simply didn't have the history of the Lakers and Celtics.

Robinson have the Iceman and Duncan as his "competition", but as a San Antonio Spur (and not just a Spur), Robinson has no equal.

[spursfaninla]

In this poll, I have to go with David Robinson without a second thought. Seems like very few around here actually had an opportunity to watch David play. David Robinson was a stud on both ends of the floor. As great as we know Tim Duncans defense to have been in his prime, David Robinson was better. He was a more intimidating presence in the paint than Duncan and for a big man he was an amazing ball thief.

The most blocks Tim Duncan has ever made in a single season was 237. David Robinson eclipsed this number 7 times over the course of his career including 3 300+ block seasons. Robinson's career average in steals has to be around 1.5 where Duncan likely is below 1.0. Over the course of his prime, Robinson was a 25ppg player while Duncan has remained consistently at around 20ppg. Robinson has a 70+ point game under his belt (granted.... it was a bit inflated), as well as one of the leagues 4 recorded regular season quadruple doubles.

David Robinson played and excelled in a league dominated by extremely talented PFs and C's. The likes of Olajuwon, Malone, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq all in their youth and prime. These are players who's game dwarfs the likes of a Pau Gasol.

I've followed San Antonio since '87 and obviously the careers of both Spurs greats. I may be wrong, but I think a lot of people who so easily dismiss Robinson either did not get an opportunity to see him on the court, OR caught him toward the end of his career which unfortunately was hampered by foot and back injuries.

As Spurs fans, we are lucky to have been able to transition from David Robinson immediately to Tim Duncan. In a few short years we'll be able to look back at the last 20 or so years and come to the realization that this franchise has spoiled by treating us to two dominant forces that few other teams have been able to provide their fans.

Whichever you choose, be it Tim Duncan or David Robinson... I don't think there is really a 'wrong' answer to this.

I started watching the NBA during D-rob's rookie year, 1990. As I said earlier, I think it is hard to compare. Put more simply, Drob was a stat machine that TD never came close to, but TD has proven to be more clutch, and to have a more well-rounded game.

Athletically it is obviously not close. And because TD had arguably more talent on his teams, and arguably faced less talented bigmen while in his prime, yet achieved WAY more championship success, it becomes hard to decide.

On the other hand, DR had an all-star in Sean and a defensive monster rebounder in Rodman, had plently of 3pt shooting during his career, and had AJ to give him plently of assists. David had a talented Cummings (although limited from injuries).

Even so, TD had sidekick D-rob, and 2 all-star quality guards to help him.

If it were prime d-rob instead of td those years? Impossible to know, huh?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

BTW, I think one thing I have to say is, Robinson embodies what the Spurs are about. I can't think of one single player who represents a team more than Robinson represents the San Antonio Spurs. Not even Michael Jordan can represent the Bulls more than Robinson represents the Spurs.

Who else can you say, "If it wasn't for that particular player, there wouldn't be that team."? There is none! You can't say that for Jordan and the Bulls. If it wasn't for Jordan, the Bulls would suck, but they wouldn't disappear. Besides, who can forget the constant fighting Jordan had with Krause throughout his career, the Kukoc fiasco, the Wizard hiatus, and the embarrasing HoF induction speech?

You can say it to some sense that Magic and Bird represents the Lakers and the Celtics because they saved the league, but the fact is, the Spurs, other than the Iceman and Duncan, doesn't really have players of the calibers of the Chamberlains (didn't start with Lakers), Jabbar (didn't start with Lakers), Havlicek, Russell, Cousy, Cowens, or West did. In other words, as much as I hate to say it, the Spurs simply didn't have the history of the Lakers and Celtics.

Robinson have the Iceman and Duncan as his "competition", but as a San Antonio Spur (and not just a Spur), Robinson has no equal.

THIS :toast

[Trimble87]

I started watchingthe NBA seriously in the mid 90's and therfore grew up seeing more of Tim Duncan then I had of David Robinson. But I don't think there is any question that Duncan is the better basketball player. I'm not sure how San Antonio fans can claim that Duncan got his rings because of a better supporting cast. Robinson was 33 Duncan's rookie year, he was still good but past his prime for sure. And by the 03 Championship Robinson was a shell of himself who found a fountain of youth in the playoffs and played spectacularly. The FO has done a great job of getting role players for the team, but when all is said in done Ginobili and Parker probably wont be top 50 players all time. I certainly think Manu has the talent, but lack of years in the NBA and injuries will hurt his numbers and I don't think Parker is as good as manu. Duncan, especially in his prime, had the amazing ability to put up consistently great numbers and make everyone else around him better. Since D-Rob retired he had the likes of Nazr and Rasho and Oberto next to him on the front line and 1 dimensional role players filling out the roster. I would argue the best team mate he had during the championship years was Bowen, Parker didn't really become an elite pg until 07 and Ginobili certainly exploded in 05. But the reason we won in 99, 03, 05 and 07 is because Tim Duncan is one of those special players who just knows how to win, without him we may have never won any titles, when he retires we may never win again.

David was and is one of the greatest people I have ever met. By far the most humble and well spoken athlete of my lifetime. He has done more for this city then any athlete, or really many other people in general will ever do. And, oh yeah, he saved the franchise from being moved to another city. On the court he was a physical stud, he had all the tools to be one of the top 3 NBA players of all time... but he just wasn't. He never had MJ's maniacal need to win, and almost shrank from the moment. I remember all of the amazing plays D-Rob made, but I also remember the times he looked hesitant and unwilling to take the game over at the end of the fourth quarter. David is a top 20 player of all time, he had the potential to be much much more...

In terms of Basketball there is no question its Duncan, in terms of being a "San Antonian" its David without question.

[smrattler]

I would also add the coach (Popovich) and the front office TD has enjoyed his whole career as part of the better "supporting cast". Robinson was a rookie and had Larry Brown as a coach. That was no small part in their amazing turn around from the previous year. But it's nothing compared to the overall culture the Pop regime brought in.

TD stepped in to a much better situation than Robinson enjoyed early in his career.

Again, greatness is all TD. But he walked into a nice situation that allowed him to put all of his focus on what he does best out there.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Duncan has more titles, more MVPs, more points, more rebounds, more assists etc.

[dastrey]

Imagine if Dwight Howard turned into a dominant scorer. That would be David Robinson. Unfortunately, Robinson in his prime had some weak talent surrounding him. You give him Parker and Manu-level talent in '95-'98 and he would have no doubt won a championship. Robinson alone was worth 50 wins a season. Timmy is one of the greatest of all time, but Robinson is not very far behind.

[Blackjack]

All the arguments for David Robinson being a better player than Tim Duncan are really just a testament to why David Robinson is the No.1 Spur of all-time.

Only Spurs fans would have trouble differentiating between the two on the court in terms of greatness.

[urunobili]

Robinson

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Without question Tim Duncan.

No matter what argument you make, fact is David caved in like a fetus when he was awarded his MVP trophy. He never had a knack for pulling out clutch solo performances in the playoffs.

Tim Duncan was the first player in ages to get back-to-back MVPs, and single handedly destroyed the Lakers Dynasty in the fourth quarter of game 6 of the LA series going 1 on 1 against Shaq every possession offense and defense, subsequently making Rapist Bryant cry like the spoiled bitch he was.

David is amazing, but come on people. Tim is a classic case of the student surpassing the teacher.

[TD 21]

Unfair as it may be most people i feel put Robinson in the same class with guys like Barkley and Ewing. In that they feel he never wins a ring without Duncan (Which is true) but i feel he is a better player than both Ewing and Barkley..

I seem to remember years ago suggesting Ewing and D-Rob were close and the reaction around here was lets just say less then kind.. :lol

I'd put Robinson in the class of Barkley, but not Ewing. Ewing was overrated because he played in New York. He's definitely a top 50 player all-time, probably closer to a fringe top 40 player, but Robinson and Barkley are in the top 25 all-time.


Robinson was highly influential in convincing Timmy to stay when he was a free agent.

Robinson 1a
Duncan 1b

I know he was, but at the end of the day, Duncan still had to make the decision for himself, which people always seem to forget.


All the arguments for David Robinson being a better player than Tim Duncan are really just a testament to why David Robinson is the No.1 Spur of all-time.

Only Spurs fans would have trouble differentiating between the two on the court in terms of greatness.

No, it's a testament to people being sentimental and/or nostalgic and not being able to take emotion out of this. To be fair, a few in this thread have done just that and said that despite Robinson being their favorite player of all-time, Duncan is the best Spur of all-time. Too bad more can't bring themselves to do the same.

[greyforest]

timmy

[ffcommish]

Without question Tim Duncan.

No matter what argument you make, fact is David caved in like a fetus when he was awarded his MVP trophy. He never had a knack for pulling out clutch solo performances in the playoffs.

Tim Duncan was the first player in ages to get back-to-back MVPs, and single handedly destroyed the Lakers Dynasty in the fourth quarter of game 6 of the LA series going 1 on 1 against Shaq every possession offense and defense, subsequently making Rapist Bryant cry like the spoiled bitch he was.

David is amazing, but come on people. Tim is a classic case of the student surpassing the teacher.

When roasting David, you conveniently forgot about the Lakers playoff series where Duncan folded like a paper towel in 2001 and 2002. The Lakers went 8-1 against the Spurs against what should have been a prime Duncan. Duncan was getting shut down by Shaq and Robert Horry.

Duncan was clearly the more skilled player but Robinson played stronger throughout his career. Robinson was helped by having a prime Duncan take the pressure off. Duncan in his prime, was helped by having David do everything on defense.

Dwight Howard shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as David. He's nowhere near the player David was and didn't come near Robinson's unwordly athleticism. Howard can barely score. David could score on anyone. David's athletic ability was near that of Lebron's overall ability.

Ewing was a joke built on his own hype.

Spurs = David. Tim gave the championships but David is where the Spurs began.

[Phenomanul]

I'd put Robinson in the class of Barkley, but not Ewing. Ewing was overrated because he played in New York. He's definitely a top 50 player all-time, probably closer to a fringe top 40 player, but Robinson and Barkley are in the top 25 all-time.



I know he was, but at the end of the day, Duncan still had to make the decision for himself, which people always seem to forget.



No, it's a testament to people being sentimental and/or nostalgic and not being able to take emotion out of this. To be fair, a few in this thread have done just that and said that despite Robinson being their favorite player of all-time, Duncan is the best Spur of all-time. Too bad more can't bring themselves to do the same.

This lesson in objectivity coming from a guy/gal who's username happens to be "TD 21"...

The reason the debate is close it's because both players are THAT great....

Most people in here never even saw Robinson play day-in, day-out from his rookie season to the time Duncan came on board...

[TD 21]

When roasting David, you conveniently forgot about the Lakers playoff series where Duncan folded like a paper towel in 2001 and 2002. The Lakers went 8-1 against the Spurs against what should have been a prime Duncan. Duncan was getting shut down by Shaq and Robert Horry.

Duncan was clearly the more skilled player but Robinson played stronger throughout his career. Robinson was helped by having a prime Duncan take the pressure off. Duncan in his prime, was helped by having David do everything on defense.

Dwight Howard shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as David. He's nowhere near the player David was and didn't come near Robinson's unwordly athleticism. Howard can barely score. David could score on anyone. David's athletic ability was near that of Lebron's overall ability.

Ewing was a joke built on his own hype.

Spurs = David. Tim gave the championships but David is where the Spurs began.

Since when are players considered to be in their prime in seasons 4 and 5 at the age of 25 and 26? Prime is often considered to be 27-32.

Duncan was playing against either the best or second best player in the league during that time and either the third, fourth or fifth best player in the league. Who did he have for a sidekick? Not a single reliable scoring threat on the perimeter and a one-time perennial All-Star who had clearly become a role player. That the Spurs even got to the Lakers in those seasons was a testament to Duncan's greatness.

I like how you just gloss over the fact that "Tim gave the championships", like it's some minor detail.

I knew the media would downplay Duncan's greatness as time went on, but Spurs fans themselves? It was only three years ago when he was widely considered to still be the best player in the game, yet many have apparently forgotten or act like he really wasn't that great. The way this is going, in three years we're going to hear idiots comparing Gasol to Duncan, pretending as if there's a legitimate case for Gasol.

Phenomanul, the truth is if anybody even pretended this were a legitimate debate on a non-Spurs message board, they'd instantly have no credibility. Duncan is one of the consensus ten best players of all-time; Robinson is a consensus fringe top twenty player all-time.

[Phenomanul]

Since when are players considered to be in their prime in seasons 4 and 5 at the age of 25 and 26? Prime is often considered to be 27-32.

Duncan was playing against either the best or second best player in the league during that time and either the third, fourth or fifth best player in the league. Who did he have for a sidekick? Not a single reliable scoring threat on the perimeter and a one-time perennial All-Star who had clearly become a role player. That the Spurs even got to the Lakers in those seasons was a testament to Duncan's greatness.

I like how you just gloss over the fact that "Tim gave the championships", like it's some minor detail.

I knew the media would downplay Duncan's greatness as time went on, but Spurs fans themselves? It was only three years ago when he was widely considered to still be the best player in the game, yet many have apparently forgotten or act like he really wasn't that great. The way this is going, in three years we're going to hear idiots comparing Gasol to Duncan, pretending as if there's a legitimate case for Gasol.

Phenomanul, the truth is if anybody even pretended this were a legitimate debate on a non-Spurs message board, they'd instantly have no credibility. Duncan is one of the consensus ten best players of all-time; Robinson is a consensus fringe top twenty player all-time.

I think it's even sadder that Spurs fans gloss over Robinson's talent and fault him for not having the same caliber surrounding talent, and coaching that that Championship squads need to have in order to excel... talent that Duncan's teams (fortunately for us Spurs fans) have had...

You had to live it to understand it... I doubt you were even a Spurs fan back in the early 90's...

[8FOR!3]

Ian Mahinmi is clearly the best Spur ever, bar none. BAR NONE.

[BadMotorscooter]

Would someone say the difference between Duncan and Robinson on the floor is much, much less than the difference between the two off the court and what they've done for the community and the Spurs organization in general? Because if thats the case, its gotta be Robinson. He covers all bases as Best Spur ever. The attitude,The fans, the city, the organization, the talent. I have yet to hear any Tim voters say anything that Duncan has done for the city once the season ends or at any other point in time. You have to take all aspects into the equation, not just basketball skill.

[TD 21]

I think it's even sadder that Spurs fans gloss over Robinson's talent and fault him for not having the same caliber surrounding talent, and coaching that that Championship squads need to have in order to excel... talent that Duncan's teams (fortunately for us Spurs fans) have had...

You had to live it to understand it... I doubt you were even a Spurs fan back in the early 90's...

People make it sound like Duncan played on the 80s Lakers or Celtics, like he was surrounded by first ballot Hall-of-Famers his entire career. Granted, they played well during the '05 and '07 runs respectively, but the man won championships with Mohammed and Oberto as starting centers. He won in '99 without a single reliable perimeter scoring threat. To a lesser extent, the same thing in '03. Sure, Parker had big games and Ginobili showed flashes, but they weren't yet reliable second and third options on a championship team.

Even if you want to say Duncan had more talent surrounding him, they still wouldn't have won championship even with an All-Star PF replacing him. Put Garnett, Webber or Nowitzki in his place in those years, do you think the Spurs win those championships? I don't.

Now you're making assumptions. You don't know how old I am or when I became a fan and it's irrelevant anyway. I never saw Russell or Chamberlain play, does that mean I can't say they were great players?


Would someone say the difference between Duncan and Robinson on the floor is much, much less than the difference between the two off the court and what they've done for the community and the Spurs organization in general? Because if thats the case, its gotta be Robinson. He covers all bases as Best Spur ever. The attitude,The fans, the city, the organization, the talent. I have yet to hear any Tim voters say anything that Duncan has done for the city once the season ends or at any other point in time. You have to take all aspects into the equation, not just basketball skill.

I think people overvalue off the court and in the community. At the end of the day, this should be first and foremost about what they did on the court and on the court, Duncan was hands down a better player.

[ffcommish]

Since when are players considered to be in their prime in seasons 4 and 5 at the age of 25 and 26? Prime is often considered to be 27-32.Ok, so he was a year off on what is generally considered his prime. Great point here. Duncan had gone to four years of college already and was already an NBA Finals MVP where he had abused the league all season. He was about as prime as he got in 99 anyways. After he got injured dunking on Pollard, his game was never the same.



Duncan was playing against either the best or second best player in the league during that time and either the third, fourth or fifth best player in the league. Who did he have for a sidekick? Not a single reliable scoring threat on the perimeter and a one-time perennial All-Star who had clearly become a role player. That the Spurs even got to the Lakers in those seasons was a testament to Duncan's greatness.A very similar argument could be made for David when he got torched by Hakeem. The Rockets were stacked and David was trying to guard the whole team while manning an unstoppable Hakeem 1-1. Then he was supposed to score all the Spurs points.


I like how you just gloss over the fact that "Tim gave the championships", like it's some minor detail.So by your logic "David is where the Spurs began" was glossed over too.


I knew the media would downplay Duncan's greatness as time went on, but Spurs fans themselves? It was only three years ago when he was widely considered to still be the best player in the game, yet many have apparently forgotten or act like he really wasn't that great. The way this is going, in three years we're going to hear idiots comparing Gasol to Duncan, pretending as if there's a legitimate case for Gasol.Duncan was great but so was David. I'm not arguing against Tim's greatness. He was the baddest man on the hardwood for a few of his early years. The question is who was the best Spur ever and David is the answer.

A prime Duncan vs a prime Robinson, I take Duncan on my team. Duncan was unstoppable in his early ears save for those Lakers series. I had to bring those 2002, 2003 teams up because someone said David curled up into a fetus. If you're making an argument TD VS DR, you can't forget Duncan did too. He was scared of the Lakers for that span.

[ffcommish]

Sure, Parker had big games and Ginobili showed flashes, but they weren't yet reliable second and third options on a championship team.

Parker had big games and Ginobili showed flashes?

Tim Duncan is an all-time great but like Kobe, Michael, Magic, Shaq and all the rest, he had a lot of help.

Duncan never had a roster with the slim pickings David had.

[BadMotorscooter]

TD 21- This isnt a knock against Timmy in any way. You can tell people love him just by the difficulty in trying to choose between the two. This will actually be a fun topic in about 15 years when young kids today grow up and debate it when none of them ever got to watch either of them or know anything about them.

[TD 21]

Duncan was great but so was David. I'm not arguing against Tim's greatness. He was the baddest man on the hardwood for a few of his early years. The question is who was the best Spur ever and David is the answer.

A prime Duncan vs a prime Robinson, I take Duncan on my team. Duncan was unstoppable in his early ears save for those Lakers series.

This makes no sense. A lot of people are saying this and it's nothing more than a cop-out. Duncan was a better player and has been just as loyal to the organization, which means this shouldn't even be a debate.


Parker had big games and Ginobili showed flashes?

Tim Duncan is an all-time great but like Kobe, Michael, Magic, Shaq and all the rest, he had a lot of help.

Duncan never had a roster with the slim pickings David had.

I'm talking about the '03 run specifically, not their entire Spurs careers.

He had help, just not as much as many claim.


You look at Lakers fans, they compare Bryant to Johnson, a consensus top five player all-time. That's the type of regard they hold him in. Then you got Spurs fans comparing a consensus fringe top twenty player all-time to a consensus top ten player all-time.

At this point, I'm sure it comes off this way to some, but I'm honestly not trying to demean Robinson. The guy was a great, great player and by all accounts, an even better person (a term thrown around far too often, but fitting in this case). But saving the organization first, being great in the community, character, etc. only goes so far. How can on court performance not be the number one criteria? Plus, it's not like Duncan isn't cut from the same cloth as Robinson in many ways.

[Blackjack]

No, it's a testament to people being sentimental and/or nostalgic and not being able to take emotion out of this. To be fair, a few in this thread have done just that and said that despite Robinson being their favorite player of all-time, Duncan is the best Spur of all-time. Too bad more can't bring themselves to do the same.

That's essentially what I was saying.

On the court, there's no debate between the two in any other part of the basketball world but with Spurs fans. And that sentimentality and nostalgia you describe is part of it, but to say it as dismissive as your post reads misses the point: David Robinson engenders such sentimentality, nostalgia, admiration and whatever else you want to call it, because of what he's meant to the Spurs' franchise and community. Like I said before, there might not be a single player that's ever played the game that had a bigger impact on his team and community.

That's what makes David the No.1 Spur of all-time, even if Tim is the Spurs' greatest basketball player of all-time. And that's why people come up with arguments or statistical breakdowns to say David was a better player, even if all it is is rationalizing or just being blinded by their love for the man; a love he's earned.

[TD 21]

That's essentially what I was saying.

On the court, there's no debate between the two in any other part of the basketball world but with Spurs fans. And that sentimentality and nostalgia you describe is part of it, but to say it as dismissive as your post reads misses the point: David Robinson engenders such sentimentality, nostalgia, admiration and whatever else you want to call it, because of what he's meant to the Spurs' franchise and community. Like I said before, there might not be a single player that's ever played the game that had a bigger impact on his team and community.

That's what makes David the No.1 Spur of all-time, even if Tim is the Spurs' greatest basketball player of all-time. And that's why people come up with arguments or statistical breakdowns to say David was a better player, even if all it is is rationalizing or just being blinded by their love for the man; a love he's earned.

How can Duncan be the best Spurs player of all-time, but not the number one Spurs of all-time? Those two things don't always have to be one and the same, I agree, but in this case, I don't see how they're not.

They've both spent their entire careers here, both have outstanding character, both are good in the community, both saved the franchise, etc. The difference is, one was a better basketball player on top of all that.

[rascal]

Why the need to compare? They are both great spurs.

[ffcommish]

David put the Spurs on the map. The Spurs were nothing until he came along. After David, the Spurs had an identity and were actually a very good basketball team.

Tim took them over the top.

[ffcommish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOtIq2PCkjY&feature=related

[Blackjack]

It's subjective, there's no denying it. But when you think about what the term 'Spur' has come to represent, that was all made possible by David Robinson -- them becoming a first-class organization, personifying character, class and a commitment to their community, that's all been cultivated because of David Robinson.

With no David Robinson this team's elsewhere and the franchise never becomes what it's known for now in any other city -- it took Dave calling out McCombs for inadequate travel, facilities, among other things, to get them where they were. It took Dave tearing up a contract guaranteeing he'd be paid as the best or top-3 in the league (can't remember the exact terms at the moment), it took a whole lot of things that had nothing to do with on-court play that one can never truly understand or appreciate.

Tim's a great guy, the greatest player the team's ever employed and I don't personally like, love or root for him any less than Dave. But objectively, there's really no comparison to what Tim and Dave have done for the team off the court and in the community, just like there's no comparison to what they've been able to do on the court.

It's honestly not a hard decision for me to say Tim's the all-time greatest Spurs player and Dave is the all-time greatest 'Spur'.

But again, it's subjective.

[TD 21]

It's subjective, there's no denying it. But when you think about what the term 'Spur' has come to represent, that was all made possible by David Robinson -- them becoming a first-class organization, personifying character, class and a commitment to their community, that's all been cultivated because of David Robinson.

With no David Robinson this team's elsewhere and the franchise never becomes what it's known for now in any other city -- it took Dave calling out McCombs for inadequate travel, facilities, among other things, to get them where they were. It took Dave tearing up a contract guaranteeing he'd be paid as the best or top-3 in the league (can't remember the exact terms at the moment), it took a whole lot of things that had nothing to do with on-court play that one can never truly understand or appreciate.

Tim's a great guy, the greatest player the team's ever employed and I don't personally like, love or root for him any less than Dave. But objectively, there's really no comparison to what Tim and Dave have done for the team off the court and in the community, just like there's no comparison to what they've been able to do on the court.

It's honestly not a hard decision for me to say Tim's the all-time greatest Spurs player and Dave is the all-time greatest 'Spur'.

But again, it's subjective.

If it wasn't made possible by Robinson, then it would have been by Duncan. Spurs fans make Robinson sound like Jackie Robinson (speaking of whom, is he better than Willie Mays because of what he did? I think a more proper distinction for Robinson may be most important Spur ever; but best, he isn't).

With no Tim Duncan, this team is elsewhere as well. How quickly that's been forgotten. Duncan also took less than he could have when he signed his last extension. Why is Robinson a god for doing these things, but with Duncan it rarely even get's mentioned?

[BadMotorscooter]

Youre way wrong with that TD 21...the Spurs were revived by David. The team would be in another city if not for him, the same cant be said for Duncan. The Spurs had climbed back during the 90's, so much so that they had to build an Alamodome to fit more people and tear down the hemisphere arena. Duncan is a great player, but Robinson is the face of the franchise.

[BadMotorscooter]

I'm still thinking about that....we went from a team looking to relocate to a team needing to build a stadium to fit more people...all within 4 years and all because of one player. David Robinson.

[TD 21]

It's often been said that if Duncan didn't re-sign in '00, that the Spurs wouldn't be in San Antonio today.

[BadMotorscooter]

It's often been said that if Duncan didn't re-sign in '00, that the Spurs wouldn't be in San Antonio today.

Who said that? Not true at all. The Spurs had become entrenched with a solid base and foundation at that point. Much like the Spurs wont move once Duncan retires. David built the base. Duncan started the frame. The rest will be the filling.

[Blackjack]

If it wasn't made possible by Robinson, then it would have been by Duncan. Spurs fans make Robinson sound like Jackie Robinson (speaking of whom, is he better than Willie Mays because of what he did? I think a more proper distinction for Robinson may be most important Spur ever; but best, he isn't).

With no Tim Duncan, this team is elsewhere as well. How quickly that's been forgotten. Duncan also took less than he could have when he signed his last extension. Why is Robinson a god for doing these things, but with Duncan it rarely even get's mentioned?

In all honesty, you seem to be doing with Tim what you accused some of the other people in the thread to be doing with Dave.

I don't have the time or all the facts in front of me to lay out just how ridiculous a contribution Dave's made to the franchise, and I honestly don't think it would change your opinion if I did. That's fine. As a matter of fact, it's more than fine and I have no problem with you or anyone else feeling that way -- I suspect age plays a role in this as well, seeing as we all have certain views based upon where we were in our own development when witnessing a particular player's greatness.

But Dave is and was basically the Michael Jordan of sports community leaders, philanthropists or however you want to phrase it. It's not a slight to say that Tim doesn't surpass Dave in that realm, just as it's not a slight to say Dave doesn't surpass Tim as a player in the actual basketball realm. It's really not.

It's just easy for me to differentiate between the two when you say all-time greatest player and all-time greatest Spur. Just my view.

[TD 21]

Who said that? Not true at all. The Spurs had become entrenched with a solid base and foundation at that point. Much like the Spurs wont move once Duncan retires. David built the base. Duncan started the frame. The rest will be the filling.

If you don't think it would have happened, fine, but it's been said many times.


In all honesty, you seem to be doing with Tim what you accused some of the other people in the thread to be doing with Dave.

I don't have the time or all the facts in front of me to lay out just how ridiculous a contribution Dave's made to the franchise, and I honestly don't think it would change your opinion if I did. That's fine. As a matter of fact, it's more than fine and I have no problem with you or anyone else feeling that way -- I suspect age plays a role in this as well, seeing as we all have certain views based upon where we were in our own development when witnessing a particular player's greatness.

But Dave is and was basically the Michael Jordan of sports community leaders, philanthropists or however you want to phrase it. It's not a slight to say that Tim doesn't surpass Dave in that realm, just as it's not a slight to say Dave doesn't surpass Tim as a player in the actual basketball realm. It's really not.

It's just easy for me to differentiate between the two when you say all-time greatest player and all-time greatest Spur. Just my view.

How? Because I'm saying a player that's more than widely regarded as better than another player is better than that player? That's being sentimental, nostalgic and speaking off my emotions? You act like I said Duncan was better than Jordan.

You're right, it wouldn't change my opinion. Duncan has done a lot as in his own right and was the better player and to me, that exceeds Robinson coming first, doing more community work, etc. If Duncan had, say, had a similar type career to what O'Neal had with the Lakers and left, I'd be saying hands down Robinson is the better Spur. Age does play a role, but I can assure you it doesn't with me in this case. Besides, you don't even know how old I am.

I agree, that's not a slight to Duncan and I never said he surpassed or even approached Robinson in this realm, but he isn't chopped liver in this regard either and that's how people are portraying this.

You don't think most important isn't a more proper distinction than best?

[BadMotorscooter]

TD 21- I dont mean to call you out but you cant say its been said many times and not prove it. What? Some hack like Stephen A Smith said it? Some of your friends? Who? It is well known that the Spurs were gone if not for Robinson. But Duncan? Nope. I dont buy it.

[TD 21]

Prove it? What do you expect me to do, find old articles from nearly and in some cases, a full decade ago? Remember and quote word for word what I was hearing at the time? It's been a decade. I'm just telling you I remember hearing it at the time, I don't care whether you believe me or not or believe it to be true.

[Mel_13]

TD 21- I dont mean to call you out but you cant say its been said many times and not prove it. What? Some hack like Stephen A Smith said it? Some of your friends? Who? It is well known that the Spurs were gone if not for Robinson. But Duncan? Nope. I dont buy it.

I've heard the case made.

1. No Duncan, no '99 title.

2. No '99 title, voters don't approve the arena bill.

3. No new arena, Spurs become a target for cities like St Louis and OKC that have NBA-level arenas ready to move in to.

Not nearly as much of certainty as losing the team if Robinson never came to San Antonio, but the Spurs would have been vulnerable to relocation without the new arena.

[BadMotorscooter]

TD 21- then dont say things that you cant back up. Very simple. You have been an adament supporter of Duncan over Robinson in this debate and thats cool. But dont pull things out that you cant back up just to make your argument seem better. The Spurs were going nowhere whether Duncan re-signed or not. Why? Because our fanbase was at a fanatical high after winning its 1st title, the city was growing and in prosperity and we have a plethera of venues to draw from and a "suburb" in Austin that was gonna draw major flow to the Spurs. Why do you think they were looking at building the new Spurs arena closer to I-35 and 410 than down on colusium rd? Spurs wrent going anywhere if Duncan left. David had solidified us by then.

[BadMotorscooter]

I've heard the case made.

1. No Duncan, no '99 title.

2. No '99 title, voters don't approve the arena bill.

3. No new arena, Spurs become a target for cities like St Louis and OKC that have NBA-level arenas ready to move in to.

Not nearly as much of certainty as losing the team if Robinson never came to San Antonio, but the Spurs would have been vulnerable to relocation without the new arena.

He was making the point of Duncan re-uping after we had already won a title and at the point youre talking about was because we didnt want to spend money on another arena when we had an already perfect Alamodome that we bought that was gonna be unused. It had nothing to do with the Spurs leaving. they werent going to.

[EmptyMan]

Best Spur Ever = D Rob

Best Spur Ever = Timmy D

[TD 21]

TD 21- then dont say things that you cant back up. Very simple. You have been an adament supporter of Duncan over Robinson in this debate and thats cool. But dont pull things out that you cant back up just to make your argument seem better. The Spurs were going nowhere whether Duncan re-signed or not. Why? Because our fanbase was at a fanatical high after winning its 1st title, the city was growing and in prosperity and we have a plethera of venues to draw from and a "suburb" in Austin that was gonna draw major flow to the Spurs. Why do you think they were looking at building the new Spurs arena closer to I-35 and 410 than down on colusium rd? Spurs wrent going anywhere if Duncan left. David had solidified us by then.

Back up? Mel_13 has heard the case made and I'm sure others have too. I'm surprised you haven't. I'm not saying it 100% would have happened, but the notion was out there.

I'm not so much an adamant (by the way, for future reference, it's don't, fan base, plethora and weren't)supporter of Duncan over Robinson so much as I'm thinking about this logically. You know, as in one guy is a consensus top ten player all-time while the other is a consensus fringe top twenty player all-time.

You're entitled to your opinion obviously, I just think it's more appropriate to, if you want to anoint or bestow a title upon Robinson, call him the most important Spur ever, as opposed to best. I really don't see the argument for calling him best, but if you're steadfast in that belief, that's fine. It doesn't affect me.

[BadMotorscooter]

Back up? Mel_13 has heard the case made and I'm sure others have too. I'm surprised you haven't. I'm not saying it 100% would have happened, but the notion was out there.

I'm not so much an adamant (by the way, for future reference, it's don't, fan base, plethora and weren't)supporter of Duncan over Robinson so much as I'm thinking about this logically. You know, as in one guy is a consensus top ten player all-time while the other is a consensus fringe top twenty player all-time.

You're entitled to your opinion obviously, I just think it's more appropriate to, if you want to anoint or bestow a title upon Robinson, call him the most important Spur ever, as opposed to best. I really don't see the argument for calling him best, but if you're steadfast in that belief, that's fine. It doesn't affect me.

Robinson is the best Spur. If you want to call it Most Important...so be it. What's the difference? Tomato...tomata. Did my thread say best Spurs player? Or Best Spur?

[TD 21]

Robinson is the best Spur. If you want to call it Most Important...so be it. What's the difference? Tomato...tomata. Did my thread say best Spurs player? Or Best Spur?

So you created a thread, asked for people's opinion's, then told them what to think? Good job.

I knew you had an agenda all along. Only a biased Robinson fan would even start this thread.

And, no, best and most important aren't one in the same. Like my Jackie Robinson example. He's more important than Willie Mays because of what he did, but was he better than him? Of course not.

[Phenomanul]

People make it sound like Duncan played on the 80s Lakers or Celtics, like he was surrounded by first ballot Hall-of-Famers his entire career. Granted, they played well during the '05 and '07 runs respectively, but the man won championships with Mohammed and Oberto as starting centers. He won in '99 without a single reliable perimeter scoring threat. To a lesser extent, the same thing in '03. Sure, Parker had big games and Ginobili showed flashes, but they weren't yet reliable second and third options on a championship team.

Even if you want to say Duncan had more talent surrounding him, they still wouldn't have won championship even with an All-Star PF replacing him. Put Garnett, Webber or Nowitzki in his place in those years, do you think the Spurs win those championships? I don't.

Now you're making assumptions. You don't know how old I am or when I became a fan and it's irrelevant anyway. I never saw Russell or Chamberlain play, does that mean I can't say they were great players?



I think people overvalue off the court and in the community. At the end of the day, this should be first and foremost about what they did on the court and on the court, Duncan was hands down a better player.

Jaren Jackson's clutch shooting streak to shut down the LA Forum says "hello"....

Mario Elie's dagger and Sean Elliott's MDM say "hello" as well...

for proper comparison...

Dennis Rodman's 0 for 5 from beyond the 3 pt arc in the '95 series against Houston say "WTF?"

[Galileo]

People talk about DRob's stats. But the fact is: Tim Duncan has better playoff stats.

[Blackjack]

How? Because I'm saying a player that's more than widely regarded as better than another player is better than that player? That's being sentimental, nostalgic and speaking off my emotions? You act like I said Duncan was better than Jordan.

No, we obviously agree about the two of them on the court but you've been arguing that Tim's somehow getting slighted for his off-court work when he's not considered the all-time greatest 'Spur.' You're posts have just read like a really loyal fan sticking up for his guy.


You're right, it wouldn't change my opinion. Duncan has done a lot as in his own right and was the better player and to me, that exceeds Robinson coming first, doing more community work, etc. If Duncan had, say, had a similar type career to what O'Neal had with the Lakers and left, I'd be saying hands down Robinson is the better Spur.

I'm fully aware it wouldn't. You're just speaking to a different criteria.

The OP was:

And I ask this in all aspects of the Spurs organization. Wins, Importance, Community, Loyalty,....

What you've been arguing is that Tim is the all-time greatest Spur because of his basketball exploits. And I agree if that's the criteria. I'd also tell you that I believe that to be the criteria amongst 99% of teams across the league -- if you were to ask a random NBA fan outside SA who's the all-time greatest Spur, 9 out of 10 would probably say Duncan. But it's different inside the city of San Antonio and their fanbase. The Spurs aren't a bunch of paid athletes there for their entertainment, they're family. They're their pride and joy, heroes and next-door neighbor all rolled into one.

Being a 'Spur' means something to the town and has come to be recognized throughout the NBA, as you hear players and announcers referring to particular people as being a 'Spur' or made of 'Spurs material'. And that was all borne from David Robinson. Had he decided to re-enter the draft and become a Laker instead of join a team thought to be in the middle of nowhere at the bottom of the NBA barrel, we never find out what that is. San Antonio never comes to embrace and define their players by a Robinson standard, instead they're probably just like most every other fan that care only about the result and couldn't care less about the lives their players live or what kind of people they are.

David blazed the trail, created the mold and gave us all something that we'll never really be able to put into words. He was an absolute godsend to San Antonio and whether it's the team still being in San Antonio or the fact that it became the first-class organization it is, that all goes back to Dave.


Age does play a role, but I can assure you it doesn't with me in this case. Besides, you don't even know how old I am.

That was a general comment directed at us all. When people talk about Indiana State and Michigan State in the championship, I know what they're talking about. I've read about it, heard the stories and even seen the game. But I didn't see it when it happened. I'm not quite old enough to know that era, the players and all that goes into that particular time that made it so special for the people that watched them. Not the way I've been able to watch Dave and Tim's career. No matter how much I read, see or hear about that time, it just won't register with me the way it would say a Bill Simmons or anyone else that became Bird or Johnson fan.

So while I acknowledge their greatness and know their greatness, I don't necessarily feel it the way I do with Dave and Tim. I know where they stand and that one if not both of them are greater players in the grand scheme of things than Dave and Tim, but there's no telling me that Bird's above Duncan. You'll hear every argument in the book, every injury, excuse, you name it, I'll come up with it to rationalize why Tim is better. I'm a fan, but I also happen to truly know Tim's greatness as I've experienced it, much the same way with Dave. But I'm also sure there's the Blackjack equivalent out there that feels the same way about Bird that I do about Tim and he'd do the same exact thing in favor of Bird. He lived through it and experienced it. He can tell you all about Bird's back injury and what how hitting his head on the floor affected him the following two weeks and how had it not happened he would've done this or that. It's just the nature of the beast; or fandom.


I agree, that's not a slight to Duncan and I never said he surpassed or even approached Robinson in this realm, but he isn't chopped liver in this regard either and that's how people are portraying this.

Timmy's pretty much all someone can ask for from a professional athlete. He's humble, unassuming, unselfish and he represents his team and city with the utmost respect. But while he does charitable things and is a decent human being by all accounts, he chooses to be a basketball player first and foremost -- I love him for it and I'd probably be the same way (with less humility and unselfishness, of course -- I am Omnipotent), but that's where he and Dave differ.

Dave was an advocate, a leader off the court and someone that embraced and didn't mind putting himself out there for a cause or belief. He's always been hands on in the community, willing to attach his name or prestige to a cause or anything he believed in, and he's always had a need for service and spreading his faith. Dave was one of the greatest basketball players to ever live but that's not what he was put here for. Basketball was just something he happened to be great at. He was always a servant or philanthropist first and foremost. He was and is just different, and it took him being that to set the standard.


You don't think most important isn't a more proper distinction than best?

What I think's most important is to just recognize and be thankful for being graced with greatness. Not taking players like Dave and Tim for granted and not losing sight of the big picture, one that doesn't often see players or men of their caliber come into focus.

I'll end with the way I started.

Spurs' All-Time greatest player, Tim Duncan.

All-Time greatest Spur, David Robinson.

There is a differentiation in my view.

[TR21]

Both are All Time Greats, Legendary players in there own rights. We were all blessed to have these two great men wearing the silver and black.

Some of The Admiral's stats in the early to mid 90s are off the charts but stats arent everything. The rings didn't start flowing in until TD took over the league.

I respect the way David stepped aside and let Tim become 'the man' offensively while david concentrated on Defense and along with Tim helped the spurs become one of the scariest defensive teams ever.

Some people say Tim had better teams. Our second championship in 2003 Timmy was a complete monster who destroyed the league. We won the championship with a rookie argentinian, a second year frenchman, and a retiring Admiral

I'd say Tim number 1 spurs player all time
David Robinson closely following at no.2 with the Iceman not far behind.

You can't go wrong with either on or off the court, they're two of my favorite and most respected people ever.

I loved the way David mentored Tim and sacrificed some offense and helped him along to be the greatest power forward we'll ever see. Let's see how Tim mentors Tiago Splitter and see if he does it so "admirably" :) If all goes well with Tiago lets lock Tim into the number 1 spot without a doubt:toast

[Budkin]

Duncan because he got it done.

[Galileo]

George Gervin was the greatest Spur. He scored the most per game.

[lefty]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0612/gallery.sportsmancovers/images/03_duncan_robinson.jpg

[Nathan89]

Lefty
I love that magazine cover. I just has greatness all over it and in the eyes of greatness.

[lefty]

Lefty
I love that magazine cover. I just has greatness all over it and in the eyes of greatness.
Yeah yeah that too....exactly what I was gonna post

[The Squirrelyq]

This is not a slight to Robinson (which many always seem to take it as), but it's Duncan hands down. Duncan is widely regarded as one of the ten best players of all-time; Robinson is widely regarded as a fringe top twenty player all-time.

This, end of discussion. Robinson is really not even close

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Let's not forget that at the end of the day we're really splitting hairs and getting caught up in semantics. Robinson and Duncan were (and are) great in their own respects, and without one, the other's impact on basketball in San Antonio would be greatly altered. As great as Big Dave was (and make no mistake--for all you youngsters out there, he was a beast in a league of his own in his prime), he couldn't take the team to the top without Timmy. And as great as Tim was coming out of college, how fortunate was he to have a hall of famer like Robinson to play with and mentor him during those crucial early years of development? You really can't have one without the other. Both men were unbelievable players and, more importantly, amazing people. Whether you're partial to 50 or 21, they've both played a huge role in the fate of basketball in San Antonio.

[Fernando TD21]

Duncan.

[johnnySpurs]

Let's not forget that at the end of the day we're really splitting hairs and getting caught up in semantics. Robinson and Duncan were (and are) great in their own respects, and without one, the other's impact on basketball in San Antonio would be greatly altered. As great as Big Dave was (and make no mistake--for all you youngsters out there, he was a beast in a league of his own in his prime), he couldn't take the team to the top without Timmy. And as great as Tim was coming out of college, how fortunate was he to have a hall of famer like Robinson to play with and mentor him during those crucial early years of development? You really can't have one without the other. Both men were unbelievable players and, more importantly, amazing people. Whether you're partial to 50 or 21, they've both played a huge role in the fate of basketball in San Antonio.

Absolutely true. Like I said, as fans we're lucky to have had both. Two classy first ballot hall of famers who've given us a team to be proud of for the past 2 decades. There is only one year in the past 20 years, the year that David Robinson was injured and Dominique Wilkins had to carry the team (I'm sure most around here don't remember that) where it was truly painful to be a Spurs fan. Where so many teams see their franchise players jump ship to chase a championship *Lebron* or more $$$ *99% of the league* these two players have given us something to truly be proud of for many many years.

In all honesty, debating these two feels a lot like the 'which decade was the best between 90's and 00's' debate.

[elemento]

i love d-rob, mas it's Duncan. And it's not even close.

best PF of all time, top10 player of all time ..c'mon guys

[gameFACE]

It's easy - Tim Duncan.

I didn't read the whole thread yet. Robinson saved the franchise, yes. But Tim took it to the level of consideration among the all time great teams like the Bulls. And for those who don't remember Tim being here in '99 to win the championship also saved the franchise in the new millennia.

[johnnySpurs]

I wonder if the 'Tim Duncan and it's not even close' people ever saw David Robinson play a single game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKzLrGHU3k&feature=related

[GoSpurs99]

I wonder if the 'Tim Duncan and it's not even close' people ever saw David Robinson play a single game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKzLrGHU3k&feature=related

That's amazing to see Pop, RC and Bob Bass on the sideline! Wow!! Thanks for sharing the link!

As for best Spurs player of all time...well, I went to my first game in the fifth grade which was 1976-77.

First, Iceman kept the franchise here and his immense greatness kept the team from leaving.

The Spurs leaving SA has been an issue from the beginning. Each time there was a real chance of losing them, we had an amazing player to keep them here.

There is no doubt that had George Gervin not been here, they would have left long ago. He was incredible, I've never seen a player like him before or since. The game was very different back then, it was a shooter's game, unlike today. Very few shooter's in today's NBA.

Then along came David Robinson, he was like a 7 foot version of Michael Jordan.

He kept the franchise from leaving as well.

But something happened in the mid-ninties after John Lucas and Bob Hill, the franchise brought back Popovich and that led to stability. The NBA started to emulate stabile franchises, especially Utah. All that led to a feeling that stability was a key factor.

But we still didn't have enough pieces around Robinson, man, effin Vinny Del Negro was his starting guard for a few years!!!!! How sad is that!!

Slowly, the team, under Pop's guidance started to stabilize and really started scouting better than anyone else.

Then Timmy showed up. Immensely talented on D and O.

It isn't so easy to say Tim, David or Ice are the best. To me they each saved the team from leaving. They each brought so much winning.

But it was Greg Popovich that stabilized the "program". He, to me, is the greatest Spur.

As for player, it's 1A, 1B and 1C. Each are totally under rated. My saddst part of being a Spurs fan is that Iceman never won a championship. It wasn't his fault, he did every thing he possibly could but didn't have a good enough cast, including coaches.

Sorry for the long reply...nice off season thread!

[SenorSpur]

I wonder if the 'Tim Duncan and it's not even close' people ever saw David Robinson play a single game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKzLrGHU3k&feature=related

I ask myself that very question. Thanks for posted that video.

That '92 Spurs team, that featured Terry Cummings, Willie Anderson, Rod Strickland & Sean Elliott , was one of the best squads of the Robinson's career (pre-Duncan of course). They were simply not afforded the luxury of playing together very long. Outside of those heralded teammates, Robinson NEVER had the supporting cast around him that Duncan has had. He certainly never had the good fortune of having good teammates for a long period of time, either.

Duncan is widely considered the BEST PF of all time. Period. End of discussion. He probably could've carried the team by himself. Fortunately for him, he didn't need to. Robinson acquiesced. Manu and Tony evolved into great players, all-stars and sure-fire HOFers in their own right. Bowen evolved into the NBA's elite, all-world, perimeter defender over about a 7-year span.

As to the question of which one is the Best Spur ever? Having had a biased, "man-crush" on Robinson, and his superior athletic talents, for the entire balance of his career, while also being a faithful, long-time worshipper at the "Church of Duncan", I simply cannot choose.

However, I would argue with anyone who claims its a runaway in either one's favor.

[ambchang]

I started watchingthe NBA seriously in the mid 90's and therfore grew up seeing more of Tim Duncan then I had of David Robinson. But I don't think there is any question that Duncan is the better basketball player. I'm not sure how San Antonio fans can claim that Duncan got his rings because of a better supporting cast. Robinson was 33 Duncan's rookie year, he was still good but past his prime for sure. And by the 03 Championship Robinson was a shell of himself who found a fountain of youth in the playoffs and played spectacularly. The FO has done a great job of getting role players for the team, but when all is said in done Ginobili and Parker probably wont be top 50 players all time. I certainly think Manu has the talent, but lack of years in the NBA and injuries will hurt his numbers and I don't think Parker is as good as manu. Duncan, especially in his prime, had the amazing ability to put up consistently great numbers and make everyone else around him better. Since D-Rob retired he had the likes of Nazr and Rasho and Oberto next to him on the front line and 1 dimensional role players filling out the roster. I would argue the best team mate he had during the championship years was Bowen, Parker didn't really become an elite pg until 07 and Ginobili certainly exploded in 05. But the reason we won in 99, 03, 05 and 07 is because Tim Duncan is one of those special players who just knows how to win, without him we may have never won any titles, when he retires we may never win again.

David was and is one of the greatest people I have ever met. By far the most humble and well spoken athlete of my lifetime. He has done more for this city then any athlete, or really many other people in general will ever do. And, oh yeah, he saved the franchise from being moved to another city. On the court he was a physical stud, he had all the tools to be one of the top 3 NBA players of all time... but he just wasn't. He never had MJ's maniacal need to win, and almost shrank from the moment. I remember all of the amazing plays D-Rob made, but I also remember the times he looked hesitant and unwilling to take the game over at the end of the fourth quarter. David is a top 20 player of all time, he had the potential to be much much more...

In terms of Basketball there is no question its Duncan, in terms of being a "San Antonian" its David without question.

In 99, the Spurs had Robinson still relatively healthy, anchoring one of the best defenses of all time along with Duncan. There was also Elliott and Elie. Jaren Jackson was on fire during the playoffs, and everybody played with a chip on their shoulders. That team, by any perspective, trumps any of the mid 90's Robinson teams.

05 had Ginobili playing as a top 10 player in the playoffs, Parker rounding off into elite point, Bowen and Horry.

Robinson's best teammate throughout his prime was Elliott, and as much as I hate to say it (be the Ninja is my 2nd favourite Spur of all time), Parker and Ginobili, during their primes, was simply better.

Add to the fact that Robinson never ever had any legitimate outside shooting and inside help (two things any big man in the history of the league needed to succeed), it's really no coincidence Robinson never won a title.

Don't get me wrong, I think in terms of a pure basketball player, Duncan is better, but it is not by a margin as large as most casual basketball fan thinks.

[ambchang]

People make it sound like Duncan played on the 80s Lakers or Celtics, like he was surrounded by first ballot Hall-of-Famers his entire career. Granted, they played well during the '05 and '07 runs respectively, but the man won championships with Mohammed and Oberto as starting centers. He won in '99 without a single reliable perimeter scoring threat. To a lesser extent, the same thing in '03. Sure, Parker had big games and Ginobili showed flashes, but they weren't yet reliable second and third options on a championship team.

Even if you want to say Duncan had more talent surrounding him, they still wouldn't have won championship even with an All-Star PF replacing him. Put Garnett, Webber or Nowitzki in his place in those years, do you think the Spurs win those championships? I don't.

Now you're making assumptions. You don't know how old I am or when I became a fan and it's irrelevant anyway. I never saw Russell or Chamberlain play, does that mean I can't say they were great players?



I think people overvalue off the court and in the community. At the end of the day, this should be first and foremost about what they did on the court and on the court, Duncan was hands down a better player.

Let me ask you this. Given a choice, would you rather have a young Parker, Ginobili, Speedy Claxton, old Avery Johnson, or would you rather have Avery Johnson and Vinny Del Negro on the wings?

Would you rather have Rodman, JR Reid and Antoine Carr, or would you rather have an old Robinson/Nazr Mohammed + Oberto by your side?

[ambchang]

This makes no sense. A lot of people are saying this and it's nothing more than a cop-out. Duncan was a better player and has been just as loyal to the organization, which means this shouldn't even be a debate.

You should know more than this if you claim to be as much a Duncan fan as you are.

[smrattler]

I wonder if the 'Tim Duncan and it's not even close' people ever saw David Robinson play a single game?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKzLrGHU3k&feature=related

I think I saw every Spurs game back then, between Rogers and Paragon cable. :lol

LOL, Will Perdue trying to shake and bake on Robinson. :lol

How about that steal where he went coast to coast and avoided MJ's steal for the dunk? Wow, that man was amazing.

That announcer mentioned the Spurs were #1 in FG% Defense. I'm telling you, Robinson affected every shot in the paint. If he didn't block it, he made you alter it, he made you look for him.

This just shows you a small sample of how much ground Five-O covered on defense.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

People talk about DRob's stats. But the fact is: Tim Duncan has better playoff stats.

Other than in blocks, Duncan has better stats period.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinda01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Robinson played 13 years. This next year for Duncan will be his 13th. Duncan will never pass David in blocks but after this season he will have him points and he already has him in rebounds and assists.

[johnnySpurs]

Other than in blocks, Duncan has better stats period.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinda01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Robinson played 13 years. This next year for Duncan will be his 13th. Duncan will never pass David in blocks but after this season he will have him points and he already has him in rebounds and assists.

David Robinson fulfilled an obligation to the Navy after being drafted into San Antonio causing him to join the league 2 years later than he could have. Also he suffered debilitating back and foot injuries that plagued the latter half of his career. It is safe to say that his 'prime' was cut short by at least a good 4 - 5 years because of these two factors. Essentially you're comparing maybe 8 or so seasons of a healthy Robinson plus filler stats from his post injury seasons to Duncans entire career. Also, in those 13 seasons you mention would be one 6 game season that was the very reason we found ourselves back in the lottery to even draft Duncan.

If the question were posed to say who was the better Spur over the course of their entire career I'd likely go with Duncan. I interpreted it as who is the better player.

Either way, I'll go back to my original statement that you can't go wrong with either.

[smrattler]

Other than in blocks, Duncan has better stats period.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/robinda01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html

Robinson played 13 years. This next year for Duncan will be his 13th. Duncan will never pass David in blocks but after this season he will have him points and he already has him in rebounds and assists.

I think we're splitting hairs here anyway, but Robinson's offensive numbers all peaked higher than Timmy's. FG%, PPG, Best Season, FTAs, everything.

Timmy has just been a machine of consistency. And in the playoffs, at his best, Timmy has delivered at a higher rate. But Robinson was just more explosive. I mean, even against the sorry Clippers, can anyone envision Timmy scoring 71 points under any circumstances?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

David Robinson fulfilled an obligation to the Navy after being drafted into San Antonio causing him to join the league 2 years later than he could have. Also he suffered debilitating back and foot injuries that plagued the latter half of his career. It is safe to say that his 'prime' was cut short by at least a good 4 - 5 years because of these two factors. Essentially you're comparing maybe 8 or so seasons of a healthy Robinson plus filler stats from his post injury seasons to Duncans entire career. Also, in those 13 seasons you mention would be one 6 game season that was the very reason we found ourselves back in the lottery to even draft Duncan.

If the question were posed to say who was the better Spur over the course of their entire career I'd likely go with Duncan. I interpreted it as who is the better player.

Either way, I'll go back to my original statement that you can't go wrong with either.


I think we're splitting hairs here anyway, but Robinson's offensive numbers all peaked higher than Timmy's. FG%, PPG, Best Season, FTAs, everything.

Timmy has just been a machine of consistency. And in the playoffs, at his best, Timmy has delivered at a higher rate. But Robinson was just more explosive. I mean, even against the sorry Clippers, can anyone envision Timmy scoring 71 points under any circumstances?

Not being healthy is not a valid excuse. Production is production and Duncan has been hobbled for the last several years as well and still puts up 20/10 night after night.

Statistically, Duncan has better averages in everything but blocks. For the playoffs its not even close.

Duncan is a much better passer and rebounder. Robinson was a slasher and a jump shooter. Duncan is the quintessential big man in the post.

You want to talk about individual seasons but Duncan was voted the best player in basketball three timesto Robinson's one. I would also take Duncan's 2003 season over anything Robinson did.

If I had to pick one to be my father it would be David Robinson but if I have to pick a teammate then its Tim Duncan hands down.

[johnnySpurs]

Not being healthy is not a valid excuse. Production is production and Duncan has been hobbled for the last several years as well and still puts up 20/10 night after night.

Statistically, Duncan has better averages in everything but blocks. For the playoffs its not even close.

Duncan is a much better passer and rebounder. Robinson was a slasher and a jump shooter. Duncan is the quintessential big man in the post.

You want to talk about individual seasons but Duncan was voted the best player in basketball three timesto Robinson's one. I would also take Duncan's 2003 season over anything Robinson did.

If I had to pick one to be my father it would be David Robinson but if I have to pick a teammate then its Tim Duncan hands down.

Many greats missed out on MVP awards during the Jordan era.

[TD 21]

Jaren Jackson's clutch shooting streak to shut down the LA Forum says "hello"....

Mario Elie's dagger and Sean Elliott's MDM say "hello" as well...

for proper comparison...

Dennis Rodman's 0 for 5 from beyond the 3 pt arc in the '95 series against Houston say "WTF?"

I meant in terms of a perimeter guy who could get his own shot and create at will off the dribble, like Ginobili and Parker. Jackson, Elie, etc. were spot up shooters. They got the looks they got because of the attention Duncan commanded.


I'm fully aware it wouldn't. You're just speaking to a different criteria.

The OP was:


What you've been arguing is that Tim is the all-time greatest Spur because of his basketball exploits. And I agree if that's the criteria. I'd also tell you that I believe that to be the criteria amongst 99% of teams across the league -- if you were to ask a random NBA fan outside SA who's the all-time greatest Spur, 9 out of 10 would probably say Duncan. But it's different inside the city of San Antonio and their fanbase. The Spurs aren't a bunch of paid athletes there for their entertainment, they're family. They're their pride and joy, heroes and next-door neighbor all rolled into one.



That was a general comment directed at us all.

No, I'm not speaking to a different criteria at all. That was why I brought up O'Neal. I never said Duncan was Robinson's equal in the community, etc., what I said was he's also been very loyal, also not taken as much money as he could have, also been extremely humble, unselfish and also been good in the community. It's not like one did all of those things and the other was the polar opposite. So even though Robinson has a leg up on Duncan in some of those respects, I don't see the gap there being as wide as it's often made out to be. Then, when I factored in on court performance, it was a no-brainer that it's Duncan. But I never just considered on court performance.

I'm aware it was a general comment directed at us all, but you inferred that I was some young kid who basically didn't respect Robinson because I wasn't old enough to fully appreciate him (which is why I said, you don't even know how old I am). I'm telling you that's not factoring in, not even in a subconscious way. You don't have to agree with me obviously, but everything I've said has been practical. I'm not saying outrageous things, I'm not some fanboy arguing Duncan is better than Jordan.

[Nathan Explosion]

I saw Robinson play his whole career. I've seen Duncan play his whole career. You can't argue with the facts. While Robinson was an AMAZING player, Duncan is one of the the elite, all time greats.

Duncan, in his prime, was the best player at his position and the best player on the planet. Kobe fans may want to disagree, but Kobe needed talented big men to win titles. Duncan was the talented big man and has more MVPs and Finals MVPs to prove it.

At no time was Robinson the best big man in the league as he had Hakeem and later Shaq as his equal or better.

What never gets mentioned is that Robinson never had the drive to be the best. You can say all you want about his teammates, but I never saw Robinson exhibit a killer instinct and say, "I'm better than anyone on the court and I will destroy anyone who gets in my way".

What also never gets mentioned is that Duncan had that killer instinct. The best example of course is the 2003 playoffs. Look at how Duncan handles the Lakers in the 4 wins with Game 6 being the best example. Look at how Duncan absolutely destroys the Nets on defense, setting a Finals record for blocks in 6 games, while the previous record was set in 7 games. Do I even have to mention being 2 blocks shy of a quadruple double IN THE FINALS!

In the end, having the killer instinct and drive plays a huge part. It's what separates the Duncans from the Robinsons. It separates the Jordans from the Lebrons. Jordan even came out and said he never would have teamed with Bird and Magic to win titles, he wanted to beat them and be better than them.

Robinson should have beaten Hakeem. He was at least as gifted an athlete as Hakeem. But Hakeem was driven. What should have been Robinson's greatest victory to date (MVP and beating the Rockets) ended up being the lasting image of his career.

When Robinson was at his absolute peak, in his best season, he got toyed with by Hakeem. When Duncan was at his absolute peak, in his best season, he absolutely destroyed the competition and turned in one of the greatest Finals performances (series and game) ever.

I love DRob. I started watching basketball and understanding the game the same season DRob was a rookie. But if I had to choose to build a franchise from the ground up with the goal of winning championships, I take the guy with a .700 winning percentage, 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, and 4 rings and I make him my centerpiece.

[Nathan Explosion]

And by all accounts, off the court, Duncan is a hell of a man too, so you can't say that Robinson was by far the better person. Robinson has been a tremendous asset to the San Antonio community and we should all be proud to count him as a resident of the city.

But Duncan is a great person to have in the community as well.

[johnnySpurs]

At no time was Robinson the best big man in the league as he had Hakeem and later Shaq as his equal or better.

Robinson had an MVP season, that's got to qualify him as the best big man for that season, no?


What never gets mentioned is that Robinson never had the drive to be the best. You can say all you want about his teammates, but I never saw Robinson exhibit a killer instinct and say, "I'm better than anyone on the court and I will destroy anyone who gets in my way".

Robinson more often than not WAS the best player on the court. He took the franchise from 21-61 to 56-26... soooo he did destroy 56 opponents who got in his way.


Robinson should have beaten Hakeem. He was at least as gifted an athlete as Hakeem. But Hakeem was driven. What should have been Robinson's greatest victory to date (MVP and beating the Rockets) ended up being the lasting image of his career.

Olajuwon had one of the best single playoff series performances in recollection. You make it sound as though each meeting between the two, Olajuwon absolutely destroyed Robinson. This was not the case.,. in fact, for the most part the two put up fairly equal performances in head to head matchups. It's unfortunate that it appears that one playoff performance where Olajuwon unquestionably decimated Robinson will define countless classic matchups between the two bigs.

[cornbread]

them becoming a first-class organization, personifying character, class and a commitment to their community, that's all been cultivated because of David Robinson.
Thanks for pointing this out. Sometimes people attribute the whole "good guy" and "humble" culture to Tim which bugs me. Although Tim's maintained those standards as the superstar of the team, it started with D-Rob and Tim managed to be perfect fit in the culture D-Rob created.

[Blackjack]

No, I'm not speaking to a different criteria at all. That was why I brought up O'Neal. I never said Duncan was Robinson's equal in the community, etc., what I said was he's also been very loyal, also not taken as much money as he could have, also been extremely humble, unselfish and also been good in the community. It's not like one did all of those things and the other was the polar opposite. So even though Robinson has a leg up on Duncan in some of those respects, I don't see the gap there being as wide as it's often made out to be. Then, when I factored in on court performance, it was a no-brainer that it's Duncan. But I never just considered on court performance.

Well then if you don't think we're speaking to a different criteria we just disagree. I personally can't see a comparable impact between Tim and Dave off the court and how each of their commitments to the city and team are splitting hairs, but you can and I know better than to try and convince you otherwise. We both have our opinions based off our own experiences and neither one of us has shown much of a willingness to be converted in the past, so I'll respectfully leave it there. As stated before, I'm fine with your position and have no problem simply disagreeing.



I'm aware it was a general comment directed at us all, but you inferred that I was some young kid who basically didn't respect Robinson because I wasn't old enough to fully appreciate him (which is why I said, you don't even know how old I am). I'm telling you that's not factoring in, not even in a subconscious way. You don't have to agree with me obviously, but everything I've said has been practical. I'm not saying outrageous things, I'm not some fanboy arguing Duncan is better than Jordan.

Don't start the inferring and getting into my intent again. Seriously. I told you what I was referring to and explained it as well as I could. Do I know your exact age? No. But we've talked in the past and realize you're younger than myself, so I know you weren't old enough to have really experienced Dave's whole career at a time where you could really appreciate a player the way you have with Duncan.

That's not some kind of attack, just an acknowledgement of something we all face and something that's affected me as well with players like Bird and Magic. It's not insulting to be born or not of the right age during a particular players heyday, it's just a fact of life -- people like you and me learn about those players and have a pretty damn good understanding of them, but we'll never truly have that feeling for those players before our time because we didn't experience them firsthand to truly comprehend, appreciate, or just be awed by.

I don't think you're a Duncan fanboy but I do think your experiences make you partial or ready to equivocate much the same way we all do with the players we experience during our formative years -- the years we're old enough to truly understand what's going on.

[TD 21]

Well then if you don't think we're speaking to a different criteria we just disagree. I personally can't see a comparable impact between Tim and Dave off the court and how each of their commitments to the city and team are splitting hairs, but you can and I know better than to try and convince you otherwise. We both have our opinions based off our own experiences and neither one of us has shown much of a willingness to be converted in the past, so I'll respectfully leave it there. As stated before, I'm fine with your position and have no problem simply disagreeing.




Don't start the inferring and getting into my intent again. Seriously. I told you what I was referring to and explained it as well as I could. Do I know your exact age? No. But we've talked in the past and realize you're younger than myself, so I know you weren't old enough to have really experienced Dave's whole career at a time where you could really appreciate a player the way you have with Duncan.

That's not some kind of attack, just an acknowledgement of something we all face and something that's affected me as well with players like Bird and Magic. It's not insulting to be born or not of the right age during a particular players heyday, it's just a fact of life -- people like you and me learn about those players and have a pretty damn good understanding of them, but we'll never truly have that feeling for those players before our time because we didn't experience them firsthand to truly comprehend, appreciate, or just be awed by.

I don't think you're a Duncan fanboy but I do think your experiences make you partial or ready to equivocate much the same way we all do with the players we experience during our formative years -- the years we're old enough to truly understand what's going on.

Relax, man. You really can't handle debate. You take it way too personally.

Don't tell me what to do. "so I know you weren't old enough to have really experienced Dave's whole career at a time where you could really appreciate a player the way you have with Duncan." That's why I saw it as an inference towards me and that quote confirms it.

I never said I was younger than you and any age related inference I may have made could have easily been misinterpreted by you. Let me guess, you're referring to the time where I said something along the lines of "I don't know what it's like to feel like I'm in my 30s"?

I never said it was an attack, I said it was an inference. Funny, you call me out for "inferring and getting into your intent", then do the same with me. I've already assured you that this age/era theory is not playing a factor in what I said. This time, you'll just have to take my word for it.

[Blackjack]

:lol

That's all . . .

[Ginobili2Duncan]

I have to say it is Duncan. D-Rob made the Spurs revelant again, and he was the reason I liked the Spurs in 1996 when I was in kindergarten. But Duncan has taken this franchise to a new level and has brought a winning tradition to this organization. Before Duncan, I'm sure Spurs fans were terrified when they had face teams like the Jazz and Suns.

[Fernando TD21]

I think we're splitting hairs here anyway, but Robinson's offensive numbers all peaked higher than Timmy's. FG%, PPG, Best Season, FTAs, everything.

Timmy has just been a machine of consistency. And in the playoffs, at his best, Timmy has delivered at a higher rate. But Robinson was just more explosive. I mean, even against the sorry Clippers, can anyone envision Timmy scoring 71 points under any circumstances?
A lot of people say that Robinson couldn't win because he didn't have great teammates. But could he score 71 points while playing with Tony and Manu or other good players?

[Nathan Explosion]

Robinson had an MVP season, that's got to qualify him as the best big man for that season, no?

He got destroyed by Hakeem that same season. I think we all know who was the best big man in that season.




Robinson more often than not WAS the best player on the court. He took the franchise from 21-61 to 56-26... soooo he did destroy 56 opponents who got in his way.

Which was then eclipsed by the turnaround the Spurs had when Duncan arrived.




Olajuwon had one of the best single playoff series performances in recollection. You make it sound as though each meeting between the two, Olajuwon absolutely destroyed Robinson. This was not the case.,. in fact, for the most part the two put up fairly equal performances in head to head matchups. It's unfortunate that it appears that one playoff performance where Olajuwon unquestionably decimated Robinson will define countless classic matchups between the two bigs.

Exactly. On the biggest stage with all the lights on him, Robinson was manhandled by Hakeem. However, if one was to choose Duncan's defining moment, it's easily Game 6 of the 2003 Finals when Duncan wouldn't let the Spurs lose. But you could easily look at Game 6 of the Western Conference Semis when Duncan absolutely took apart Horry, Shaq and anyone else who tried to guard him.

I remember Horry being torched by Duncan so Shaq goes to Horry and says, "I got him." Duncan looks at Shaq, goes into the block, throws his body into Shaq and calls for the ball. In all the games I've watched DRob play, I've NEVER seem him do anything like that. I never seen Robinson have that look in his eye.

And the one thing you left out is if you had to start a franchise with one player, which do you choose? It's Duncan of course. And knowing what we know about Duncan's personality, that franchise would still be run like the Spurs, a no nonsense team first franchise that everyone credits with Robinson with starting.

Robinson is a great human being, but Duncan's no slouch in that department himself. I guarantee that the new franchise would be identical to the Spurs we know with Duncan as the foundation instead of Robinson. They're both great human beings and it shows how lucky we as Spurs fans are for seeing these great players and great individuals off the court.

[BadOdor]

Kobe>both of them.

Made Duncan his bitch in 01/02/04/08.

Cheers.

[johnnySpurs]

He got destroyed by Hakeem that same season. I think we all know who was the best big man in that season.

Destroyed in the playoffs, yes.... their regular season head to head matchups, was a lot closer with Olajuwon eclipsing Robinson significantly in points also beating Robinson in steals. Robinson took the advantage in blocks, assists and fewer turnovers per game. Most importantly, the Spurs won the season series 5-1.

DR: 22Pts, 2.8BL, 2.1ST, 10.3REB, 3.8AST, 3.6TOV
HAK: 29.5Pts, 3.5BL, 1.3St, 9.6REB, 2.8AST, 4.5TOV




Which was then eclipsed by the turnaround the Spurs had when Duncan arrived.

This was also the season that David Robinson returned. The prior season he played only 6 games.... this season he played 73 and put up very respectable numbers at 21.6ppg, 10.6rpg, 2.6bpg and 2.7ast. Timmy contributed comparable numbers at 21.1ppg, 11.9rpg, 2.5bpg and 2.7ast. Statistically, this 36 game turnaround should be credited equally among the two.


And the one thing you left out is if you had to start a franchise with one player, which do you choose? It's Duncan of course. And knowing what we know about Duncan's personality, that franchise would still be run like the Spurs, a no nonsense team first franchise that everyone credits with Robinson with starting.

I would go with Robinson. I feel that between the two, there is only one aspect of Duncans game that is superior to Robinsons and that is his wizardry in the post. HOWEVER.... I would not be disappointed in the least bit if I had to go with Duncan. They are both phenomenal players who have given us fans many years of basketball excellence. I do not knock anybody for choosing Duncan over Robinson in this poll. I just have a really hard time believing anybody who says "Duncan and it's not even close" ever had the opportunity to see Robinson play.... outside of maybe his decline years. Take Shaq and say Dwight Howard for example. If someone just began to watch the NBA in the past few years they are watching Dwight in his prime while Shaq is just a shell of his former self. In their viewing experience, they'd almost have to go with Dwight as the better player.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Kobe>both of them.

Made Duncan his bitch in 01/02/04/08.

Cheers.


First of all, fuck off. You obviously cannot understand the criteria of this thread.

Second, it's been said before and I'll say it again, if we're simply talking about who was better BASKETBALL-wise, it's gotta be Duncan. 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, best PF in the history of the game, etc. But this thread was asking about who was the best SPUR of all time. For crying out loud, the NBAs community service award is freaking named for David Robinson. As much as MJ became the face of the Bulls, Big Dave became the face of his city. He has done so much more than just keep the Spurs in San Antonio--his attitude is really the measuring stick of what it means to be a Spur. Even Duncan has said that Robinson's demeanor and personality filtered to everyone in the locker room, and you'd be a fool to believe that Duncan's quiet leadership was amplified by his emulation of David's example.

As I've said before, they're both outstanding individuals, and when it gets down to it, neither of them would be even remotely interested in this type of debate. At the end of the day, though, when I think of what makes a great Spur (i.e., all around individual on the court and in the community), my mind compares everyone to Five-Oh.

[Nathan89]

Kobe>both of them.

Made Duncan his bitch in 01/02/04/08.

Cheers.

Kobe was not even the greatest player on his team when in 00/01/02. Even with the best center in shaq the still needed help from the official/Nba to win those championships. The refs cheated the trail blazers and sacaremento. In 04 they need the miracle .4 shot to beat us. Anyways shaq and kobe lost in the 04 finals to the pistons. Kobe could not win a championship with shaq in 04 but dwade won a championship with a much worst shaq in 06. In 08 kobe choked again to the celtics. In 09 the lakers won the title because they just had so much talent compared to the rest of the league. When I watch them play I root against them because to me they just don't feel like a championship team. By championship team I mean a group of players that play hard and together to win a ring. This team doesn't they just have so much talent they win. In 2010 the lakers win a 7 game finals series, in which kobe went 6 for 24 in game 7. So when you look at the big picture kobe choked 2 finals and almost a third. He won three finals being the second best player on the team and they still needed the officials help. Then he won two finals because his team was so damn talented. Seems to me that you are overrating kobe.

Duncan on the other hand has won 4 ring being the best players on his team. Even though parker got finals mvp in the 07 finals. He did all this with the best other two players being all-stars like three total times. He has been a two time league Mvp. Oh yeah, he won four rings without the help of the officials/Nba. In my opinion duncan> kobe.

Damn forgot to mention that the lakers fell off the map when shaq left. They needed that fishy trade for gasol to become relevent again.

[smrattler]

A lot of people say that Robinson couldn't win because he didn't have great teammates. But could he score 71 points while playing with Tony and Manu or other good players?

Did you see that game? He didn't have to score 71 points in that game either. It wasn't one of those games where he had so little help that he needed to carry his team and voila.

That was a meaningless game. The only reason he played was to win the scoring title. And to me it seemed it was his teamates and coaches that wanted him to do it more than he did. Like they pumped him up to go for it.

All I was saying was that Robinson was explosive in his scoring. Duncan is not that type of scorer. He just kills you with a steady diet of efficiency and consistency. And when the stakes are highest, he's would be even deadlier. The quiet scoring and rebounding and defensive presence. Robinson was so athletic that he blew you away.

Duncan is the greatest PF of all time. His playoff reputation makes him one of the greats of all time. But people do underestimate Robinson as an athletic phenom, explosive scorer, and his defensive presence on the ball and help-side controled oponents' FG% like few ever have.

It's not like big Dave was just some nice guy we all like and he played basketball. He achieved highs that few ever have: ROY, DPOY, MVP, scoring champ, All-NBA teams, All-Defense Teams, NBA champ.

[stnick2261]

Since David convinced Duncan to stay... couldn't he also be "credited" with everything Tim has done?

[Nathan89]

Since David convinced Duncan to stay... couldn't he also be "credited" with everything Tim has done?

With that logic, I would have to say Davids parents are the best spurs ever. You know since the created him.

[chazley]

Let me just put this to rest.

Tim Duncan is the best basketball player to ever play for the Spurs.

D-Rob is one of the best off-court people in the history of the game, let alone the Spurs.

Cliffs:

Tim Duncan best basketball player

D-Rob best humanitarian

[Fernando TD21]

Did you see that game? He didn't have to score 71 points in that game either. It wasn't one of those games where he had so little help that he needed to carry his team and voila.

That was a meaningless game. The only reason he played was to win the scoring title. And to me it seemed it was his teamates and coaches that wanted him to do it more than he did. Like they pumped him up to go for it.

All I was saying was that Robinson was explosive in his scoring. Duncan is not that type of scorer. He just kills you with a steady diet of efficiency and consistency. And when the stakes are highest, he's would be even deadlier. The quiet scoring and rebounding and defensive presence. Robinson was so athletic that he blew you away.

Duncan is the greatest PF of all time. His playoff reputation makes him one of the greats of all time. But people do underestimate Robinson as an athletic phenom, explosive scorer, and his defensive presence on the ball and help-side controled oponents' FG% like few ever have.

It's not like big Dave was just some nice guy we all like and he played basketball. He achieved highs that few ever have: ROY, DPOY, MVP, scoring champ, All-NBA teams, All-Defense Teams, NBA champ.
Honestly, I only watched some highlights in youtube. My point is, if Robinson had to share the ball with other players like Tony and Manu, it's unlikely he would be competing for the scoring title.

[Killakobe81]

Duncan I dont care if David has better numbers ...IIRC David used to win the award that was a precursor to PER (sponsored by Schick I believe)

Duncan was the better player period. As far as a humanitarian, gentleman scholar than David gets it. I dont think duncan will be coming to regular season games when he retires ...David is mr. Spur just like Magic is Mr.Laker

but that doesnt make them the best ever ...

But I do think magic is both ...