RC talks about Ryan Richards

[ChumpDumper]

RC was being interviewed during the Knicks summer league game and said Richards is getting surgery and will probably play overseas "the next couple of years."

[DPG21920]

Damn. That sucks. I wonder if this was something pre-draft? I wish the Spurs would have moved up for Ebanks, even before this news.

[Blackjack]

That sucks . . .

Well, Shaq can now be our sixth Big!

[smrattler]

I'm sure it was always the plan to leave him overseas for a couple of years.

I don't think they thought he was ready to come over, with or without the injury.

[Russ]

Come on now. Surely, no one thought Richards could play for the Spurs this year.

[Trill Clinton]

I don't mind him grooming his game overseas a couple years rather than ride the pine or play in the d-league a la mahinmi....he has a lot of upside and is still young, with splitter here there is no need to rush him...I would like to see him in a more competitive league tho...the footage I saw of him looked like he was playing against high schoolers.

[coyotes_geek]

Sucks about the surgery, but not surprising that the Spurs wanted him to stay overseas for a while.

[DPG21920]

It would have been nice to keep tabs on him in Austin though. The league he is playing in overseas is not much better than the D-Leauge IIRC.

[ChumpDumper]

The only thing I don't like about his playing overseas is that it may be hard for him to find the right situation where he can get enough playing time but the level of competition isn't or doesn't become beneath him. His getting loaned out to a low level Swiss team again would suck.

[kbrury]

Come on now. Surely, no one thought Richards could play for the Spurs this year.

No, we were hoping he could come over and play in Austin.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, if he can latch onto a big team than sure, but even then, he might not get the PT to develop. I am sure the Spurs will do their best to get him to a team that can help him develop a la Gist.

[Bruno]

Richards didn't want to be stashed. I hope Spurs have been able to convince him of staying overseas smoothly.

Spurs have now a roster spot available for a 6th PF/C. If the don't let this spot open, the most logical would be to go with a prospect who could play in Austin. Gist has been average in SL before his injury, Spurs could reward him for his patience but I doubt it. Maybe Spurs will find in other SL teams an interesting prospect to work with next year.

[DPG21920]

Wilkerson perhaps?

[Spurs Brazil]

Richards didn't want to be stashed. I hope Spurs have been able to convince him of staying overseas smoothly.

Spurs have now a roster spot available for a 6th PF/C. If the don't let this spot open, the most logical would be to go with a prospect who could play in Austin. Gist has been average in SL before his injury, Spurs could reward him for his patience but I doubt it. Maybe Spurs will find in other SL teams an interesting prospect to work with next year.

Spurs should give Gist a chance. Maybe playing in Austin will help develop his game

[ChuckD]

Come on now. Surely, no one thought Richards could play for the Spurs this year.

I saw a LOT of projected rosters by fans here with him on them. I projected him as a "draft and stash" immediately. He has that Mahinmi "I've hardly played a minute of basketball against good competition" stink about him. He's not ready for the NBA. Hell, he's probably not ready for the d-league.

You don't want to overwhelm the kid, so the Spurs should use their contacts to get him put on a ULEB cup team in a competitive league. I think Euroleague would be too much for him this year.

[will_spurs]

The only thing I don't like about his playing overseas is that it may be hard for him to find the right situation where he can get enough playing time but the level of competition isn't or doesn't become beneath him. His getting loaned out to a low level Swiss team again would suck.

Yeah, on the other hand just look at the past Spurs draft picks who played in Europe and ultimately made the team, vs those who were "groomed" in Austin and never made the team... The reality of it is that European leagues, even though they operate under different rules, are still real leagues compared to the D-league.

[ChumpDumper]

Wilkerson perhaps?


Spurs should give Gist a chance. Maybe playing in Austin will help develop his gameI like at least this type of player if they can't get a full-on shotblocker. Curtis Withers on the D-League Select is playing this kind of game as well.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, on the other hand just look at the past Spurs draft picks who played in Europe and ultimately made the team, vs those who were "groomed" in Austin and never made the team... The reality of it is that European leagues, even though they operate under different rules, are still real leagues compared to the D-league.Right, but some of the picks stayed in Europe and never even made it to a good team or one on which they could play.

[ChumpDumper]

This isn't exactly news. Everyone knew that he would need that surgery going into the draft. He'll be fine overseas or in Austin.Many were expecting him to play in SL before getting the surgery. The overseas part is definitely news; I hadn't heard anyone like RC talking about the probability of his playing overseas.

[coyotes_geek]

The Spurs need to go grab a vet center. You're still chasing the lakers and as of now Duncan and Splitter are the only two guys over 6-10 on the whole roster. There's not much point in carrying some d-league sf/pf when there are absolutely no minutes to be had at PF behind Duncan/Dyess/Blair/Bonner and the Spurs already have a surplus of prospects at SF.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs need to go grab a vet center. You're still chasing the lakers and as of now Duncan and Splitter are the only two guys over 6-10 on the whole roster. There's not much point in carrying some d-league sf/pf when there are absolutely no minutes to be had at PF behind Duncan/Dyess/Blair/Bonner and the Spurs already have a surplus of prospects at SF.Are there minutes at center behind Duncan/Splitter/Dice/Blair/Bonner?

I guess if they sign Dampier or Shaq there would be .

[ChumpDumper]

You could probably look it up in his draft prospect thread, but I explained that he couldn't play in SL because of his overseas contract and also the shoulder. I learned about the SL info from a higher source of mine and the shoulder from a Hawks source of mine. So it was clearly well known he would need surgery.That doesn't change the fact that many thought he would still be on the SL roster even this week.

I'm not stepping on your scoop, Scoop. Relax.

[ChumpDumper]

No no, I understand. I just wasn't holding my breath for that reason. Just an opinion but I don't think the Spurs are the ones that will buy out Richards contract. Especially if they don't have plans to play him in San Antonio, they probably don't want him taking a roster spot up and still pay him 500k a year.Right. I could have seen its going either way, but it would be understandable if they signed a vet big man, found a prospect in SL they wanted to lock up for a bit or simply wanted to leave a roster spot open. When someone is picked that low, that young there are simply too many unknowns. It seemed like RC made the intentions clear today.

[Russ]

Richards looks like he could take a shower in a rifle barrel (to quote Chick Hearn about Gervin).

He needs to bulk up just to get Sanikidze-skinny.

I think his shoulder surgery is to create one.

[ElNono]

You could see this one coming from a mile away, regardless of what Richards had in mind.

[Fabbs]

Any chance the Spurs could spend years keeping him, paying salary and then trading him in 3 years for Spanoulis and/or a quart of hummus?
Or maybe just releasing him?

:pop: He's won 4 titles you know.

[ceperez]

doesn't look promising at all.

by the time richards gets enough experience to join ths spurs, tim and manu will be out of contract.

[will_spurs]

doesn't look promising at all.

by the time richards gets enough experience to join ths spurs, tim and manu will be out of contract.

It has nothing to do with being promising or not. This player wasn't really expected to contribute before the end of Timmy era anyway, and it's going to be the same for pretty much all the Spurs draft picks from now on. There's a life after Tim and Manu :wow

[timvp]

Richards playing in Europe is surprising considering that Richards was adamant about not staying in Europe. His pre-draft comments indicated that he basically didn't want to get drafted by a team that had draft-and-stash in mind.

Obviously he's a long-term prospect who probably has a 1% chance of panning out but I think D-League would have been best for him. In fact, the D-League would probably be best for the Spurs as well. What exactly have the Toros done for the Spurs since their inception? They haven't produced one player that could help. Using the Toros to develop Richards for two years would have given value to the affiliation.

Hopefully the Spurs can help Richards find a good team that will give him minutes in Europe ... but that's easier said that done.

[Obstructed_View]

Some time in Europe and a stint in Austin will be enough for all the Spurs fans who think he should be on the roster right now to cool on him. I'm sure one of the Spurs' rivals will be in need of a young center in a couple of years.

[timvp]

Wilkerson perhaps?

Nah, I wouldn't go with Wilkerson. His lack of size makes hurts him as a prospect. I'd like Gist better, although if he were to remain in Europe, he should be able to continue to progress.

My preference would be a raw shotblocker or a three-point shooting big that could become Bonner insurance.

[TD 21]

They might go without a sixth big, at least to start the season. They might want to carry fourteen players and even if they have a glut on the wings, they may see Gee as too good a prospect to waive just to have a sixth big, who barring injury has no chance to play or figure into the team's future.

If they do go with a sixth big though, Jones (I expect the Raptors to waive him, they have no need for him) and Gist would probably be in the mix.

[timvp]

If they do go with a sixth big though, Jones (I expect the Raptors to waive him, they have no need for him) and Gist would probably be in the mix.

Dwayne Jones? If so, I highly doubt it. The sixth big should be D-League eligible, which Jones is not. And since the Spurs ignored Jones when they had less depth at PF and C while he was in Austin, I don't see why they'd want him now.

If Jones doesn't get with an NBA team, I could see the Toros signing him, though.

[200 miles]

So there is absolutely no chance to sign another 7-footer that is not named Shaq on the team? Well that's just terrific. :bang

[AFBlue]

Seems like he's officially on the Mahinmi path...year or two in Europe followed by year or two in D-League.

[Russ]

What exactly have the Toros done for the Spurs since their inception? They haven't produced one player that could help.

Finally, some one speaks the truth on this subject.

The only thing the Toros have done is give national pundits something to talk about when they're forced to say something about the Spurs. As in, "how bout those Spurs, they can always find diamonds in the rough, look at the way they pioneered NBA-team affiliation with a D League club, yada yada . . ."

[Fabbs]

big that could become Bonner insurance.
:lmao Bonner insurance.
Anyones grandma available to travel 82 games a year and one, at most two playoff series?
Must be able to stand outside arc and throw ball towards basket.
No further qualifications neccessary.

* hoagie eating on own time permissable.

Oh almost forgot. Grandma must be prepared to become millionaire +.

[ceperez]

name me one d-league player that has earned a roster spot for the spurs?

this year may be the first with temple and hairston, however i think a player gets better experience playing in europe or elsewhere.

mahinmi for example never deceloped well enough for the spurs to want to sign him.

[TD 21]

Dwayne Jones? If so, I highly doubt it. The sixth big should be D-League eligible, which Jones is not. And since the Spurs ignored Jones when they had less depth at PF and C while he was in Austin, I don't see why they'd want him now.

If Jones doesn't get with an NBA team, I could see the Toros signing him, though.

Yeah, Dwayne Jones. You're right though, it wouldn't make sense to have a non-eligible D-League sixth big.

If he can't stick in the NBA though, the Toros could sign him and the Spurs could go with five bigs and if a need arises for a sixth, sign him.

I'm not saying they will, but they may do something like that in order to keep the roster at 14 and keep Gee (assuming Jones or someone of that ilk is also signed).

[Bruno]

I think that the shoulder surgery has been a big factor to let him overseas at least this year.

Richards had the same injury Batum had last year. Batum came back 3 months after the surgery but it was obviously too soon since he re-injured his shoulder in the playoffs. I don't know how long Richards will be after his surgery but it could 4 to 6 months. It means that he will be back between December and February.

I rather let Richards one year overseas than signing him for half a year with Spurs and lost one year of D-League eligibility. With how raw and young Richards is, 2 full years of D-League shouldn't be too much to work with him.

[Jlowd21]

mahinmi for example never deceloped well enough for the spurs to want to sign him.

He developed well enough for the Mavs to sign him.. We don't hold onto our players for enough time at all.

[Solid D]

Dwayne Jones would be a waste of salary. He's just not that good and he's not that strong with the ball. Gist has improved his help D, shot-blocking and game awareness. I think he could be an injury protection player for the Spurs in Austin, if he doesn't put the money (Europe) as a higher priority.

A 6th Big is normally not one of the 12 rotation guys for the Spurs.

[8FOR!3]

I don't see how people are saying that Ryan's on the Mahinmi path. He's a different type of player, he can shoot the outside shot and that's going to make him more valuable than Ian. I can just about guarantee that in 3 years he will have more talent and be more NBA ready than Mahinmi. Even if he's not, he'll only be 22 by then.

[coyotes_geek]

He developed well enough for the Mavs to sign him.. We don't hold onto our players for enough time at all.

Either that or the mavs are just making the same mistake the Spurs did in thinking that they could turn Ian into an NBA player. Time will tell.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't see how people are saying that Ryan's on the Mahinmi path. He's a different type of player, he can shoot the outside shot and that's going to make him more valuable than Ian. I can just about guarantee that in 3 years he will have more talent and be more NBA ready than Mahinmi. Even if he's not, he'll only be 22 by then.

I hope you're right. But the odds favor that 5 years from now we'll be having the same debates we are right now, only with the name "Richards" replacing "Mahinmi", and some other name replacing "Richards".

[TD 21]

Dwayne Jones would be a waste of salary. He's just not that good and he's not that strong with the ball. Gist has improved his help D, shot-blocking and game awareness. I think he could be an injury protection player for the Spurs in Austin, if he doesn't put the money (Europe) as a higher priority.

A 6th Big is normally not one of the 12 rotation guys for the Spurs.

I agree. To clarify, I don't want Jones, I was just throwing a name out there that I could see being under consideration.

[ceperez]

He developed well enough for the Mavs to sign him.. We don't hold onto our players for enough time at all.

I'm not a Mahinmi hater. I felt the Spurs could have invested more time on him to develop his game. You know, even if he wasn't going to become a very good center, we could have developed him into a channing frye type center that made his living beyond the arc.

Remember, prior to this season, Frye rarely took a shot from the 3 point line. Prior to 2009-2010 season this is what he took:

2005 -3-9 -
2006 - 3-18 -
2007 - 3-10
2008 - 11-33

Based on these percentages (below 30%), you would think he should never attempt the 3 point shot.

in 2009-2010 he did:

172-392

That's 10 times more attempts and he practically destroyed the Spurs.

[Blackjack]

TBH, I kinda like the idea of bringing Gist in. He's been a good soldier, he's got a unique skill-set athletically and he may just be able to give the Spurs something on an off night or tough matchup; his length, athleticism and motor just might be able to give a team a spark or answer one night when he's surrounded by great talent.

I'm not saying he is or isn't the best option but for the role he'd be playing and given all that's gone before, I wouldn't hate to see him make the roster.

[ceperez]

Sigh.... appears Richards is a really long term project.

Wished the Spurs lucked out and drafted Rolle or even Caracter.

[Russ]

I don't see how people are saying that Ryan's on the Mahinmi path. He's a different type of player, he can shoot the outside shot and that's going to make him more valuable than Ian. I can just about guarantee that in 3 years he will have more talent and be more NBA ready than Mahinmi. Even if he's not, he'll only be 22 by then.

I agree. The problem with Ian was not that the Spurs drafted him, but that they did it in the first round. That set in motion a whole chain of problems that became a tail wagging the dog. It is harder to "draft and stash" first rounders, for example, due to the NBA's salary rules.

When it became apparent that the Spurs had used a first round pick on a questionable project, they began to dig in their heels on Ian and refused to cut their loses. They had their reputation as the most highly esteemed evaluator of overseas talent to protect.

None of this, of course, was Ian's fault.

It would have been better for Ian and the Spurs if he had been a second round pick (ala Richards) as he should have been.

The Richards selection may have a much happier ending for the Spurs.

[dbestpro]

I agree. The problem with Ian was not that the Spurs drafted him, but that they did it in the first round. That set in motion a whole chain of problems that became a tail wagging the dog. It is harder to "draft and stash" first rounders, for example, due to the NBA's salary rules.

Correct, but a major reason of drafting Ian was to avoid paying the 1st round salary. For salary purposes the draft of Ian worked. They could have just sold that pick like a lot of teams do that are trying to avoid the same salary.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, I wouldn't go with Wilkerson. His lack of size makes hurts him as a prospect. I'd like Gist better, although if he were to remain in Europe, he should be able to continue to progress.Let them battle it out in training camp.


My preference would be a raw shotblocker or a three-point shooting big that could become Bonner insurance.Yeah, it's just that the minimum salary types that can do either of those are pretty horrible in most other aspects of their respective games.

[slick'81]

really not a surprise at all

[Silver&Black]

This might turn out to be a blessing. Keep him overseas and polish his game. I don't know if he's NBA ready right now anyways. Hope him the best though...

[lurker23]

A slight surprise about Richards; I thought he was going to be able to pressure the Spurs to bring him to Austin, but I guess the shoulder surgery really put a damper on that plan. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him as early as the 2011-12 season, though if there's a threat of a long lockout, the Spurs may want to keep him overseas one more year and not risk having him lose a year of development due to labor strife.


As for the role of 6th big, the Spurs probably have two major options:

1. A cheap veteran big man who they can shove on the inactive list for long periods of time, but should be able to contribute if called upon (i.e.- what we thought Ratliff was going to do last year).

2. A D-League eligible young big man, who the Spurs can look at for the long haul, and may be able to play in emergency situations.


The more I think about #2, the more I like the idea of James Gist in that role. Out of their options for D-League eligible players, he's more ready to contribute than most, and his length and body-type isn't duplicated by anybody else on the roster. In an end-of-the-bench sort of way, he would actually fill a niche in the roster, a 3/4 hustle-man who can get out in run with some of the other youngsters.

I've said before that this summer is likely make-or-break for Gist as a Spur; he's done his loyalty thing by heading overseas for a couple years, and now they should make some sort of decision one way or another. I said a few days ago that the Spurs have two major options:


a.) Fully take him under your wing, taking responsibility for his development in training camp, practices, and/or in Austin. That's the only way I can see Gist developing a good perimeter game and becoming a true 3/4.
b.) Cut him loose and let him seek his own fortune on other teams who might have use for a thin but athletic 4 who can roam, block shots, and run the floor.

If the Spurs bring him into training camp, they'll likely be choosing between these two options. If he impresses enough that they execute option a, look for him to spend 80% of his time in Austin, shooting perimeter jump shots and guarding small forwards.

[TD 21]

A slight surprise about Richards; I thought he was going to be able to pressure the Spurs to bring him to Austin, but I guess the shoulder surgery really put a damper on that plan. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him as early as the 2011-12 season, though if there's a threat of a long lockout, the Spurs may want to keep him overseas one more year and not risk having him lose a year of development due to labor strife.


As for the role of 6th big, the Spurs probably have two major options:

1. A cheap veteran big man who they can shove on the inactive list for long periods of time, but should be able to contribute if called upon (i.e.- what we thought Ratliff was going to do last year).

2. A D-League eligible young big man, who the Spurs can look at for the long haul, and may be able to play in emergency situations.


The more I think about #2, the more I like the idea of James Gist in that role. Out of their options for D-League eligible players, he's more ready to contribute than most, and his length and body-type isn't duplicated by anybody else on the roster. In an end-of-the-bench sort of way, he would actually fill a niche in the roster, a 3/4 hustle-man who can get out in run with some of the other youngsters.

I've said before that this summer is likely make-or-break for Gist as a Spur; he's done his loyalty thing by heading overseas for a couple years, and now they should make some sort of decision one way or another. I said a few days ago that the Spurs have two major options:


If the Spurs bring him into training camp, they'll likely be choosing between these two options. If he impresses enough that they execute option a, look for him to spend 80% of his time in Austin, shooting perimeter jump shots and guarding small forwards.

Excellent post.

[lurker23]

A few (completely) side notes about my above post:

1. There's no guarantee the Spurs will sign a 6th big. They could get along just fine with 5, barring injuries to two of them at once.

2. In relation to #1, it's actually more likely that Richards staying across the pond opens up a spot for Gee, not for Gist. In that case, the roster would likely look something like this:

Parker/Hill
Manu/Anderson
(Jefferson)/(Jones)/Hairston
Duncan/Blair/Bonner
Splitter/McDyess

Inactive: Temple, Gee

3. While it still seems unlikely that Pop will put a Phoenix Suns type offense on the court at any time this year, one can still imagine what that would look like if he decided to let the youngsters run for 5 minutes a game. With the Spurs current (and potential) personnel, the best fast-break squad would likely contain some combination of the following players:

Parker/Hill/Manu/Anderson/Jefferson/Gist/Splitter

With a slight chance that you could also throw Blair in there; he can rumble down the court when the timing is right, and he can also rebound/throw a great outlet pass.

[TD 21]

A few (completely) side notes about my above post:

1. There's no guarantee the Spurs will sign a 6th big. They could get along just fine with 5, barring injuries to two of them at once.

2. In relation to #1, it's actually more likely that Richards staying across the pond opens up a spot for Gee, not for Gist. In that case, the roster would likely look something like this:

Parker/Hill
Manu/Anderson
(Jefferson)/(Jones)/Hairston
Duncan/Blair/Bonner
Splitter/McDyess

Inactive: Temple, Gee

I agree. I said it in another thread, I think Richards not coming over improves Gee's chances. If the Spurs find him too intriguing a prospect to cut, they could stash him in the D-League for another season and then if Anderson proves to be a knockdown shooter and Hairston a capable one, let Jones go (assuming he's signed in the first place) and have Gee take his spot on the active roster two seasons from now if he shows enough progression next season.

Because the five bigs on this team are all rotation quality bigs, they may not sign a sixth. Plus, assuming Jefferson and Jones are on the roster, they can both play some small ball four.

[intlspurshk]

So there is absolutely no chance to sign another 7-footer that is not named Shaq on the team? Well that's just terrific. :bang

If released, sign Dampier

[SenorSpur]

As for the role of 6th big, the Spurs probably have two major options:

1. A cheap veteran big man who they can shove on the inactive list for long periods of time, but should be able to contribute if called upon (i.e.- what we thought Ratliff was going to do last year).

2. A D-League eligible young big man, who the Spurs can look at for the long haul, and may be able to play in emergency situations.

Could Darryl Watkins be the answer to option #2? I admit I've not seen much of his play during summer league. And from reading Timvp's game summaries, it appears he may have come into the summer a bit out of shape. which IIRC, has hurt his shotblocking ability. However, it also appears that he has had flashes of the raw potential that made him a training camp finalist, a couple of seasons ago.

Does anyone believe that Watkins can be that proposed 6th big?

[ohmwrecker]

If released, sign Dampier

Shaq > Erica

I don't want either one really.

[20beastie45]

didn't Richards say that he didn't want to play over seas? If I remember correctly he said he wanted to play in the states whether it be NBA or NBDL