PDA

View Full Version : Are standing reach/wingspan overvalued?



ulosturedge
07-19-2010, 11:47 PM
NBA HD: Are standing reach/wingspan overvalued?
Written by Tom Haberstroh on Thursday, July 1, 2010

Last week, I looked at the relationship between max vertical height and rebounding. In the comments section, the brilliant readers offered up suggestions to expand on this topic. Let’s see what we can do.

One of the quibbles with the piece was my choice to look at max vertical height instead of say, weight or standing reach. Well, thanks to Draft Express, I can run those as well. Keep in mind, the measurements were taken at the draft and likely have changed slightly (weight).

Let’s start from the ground up. If we run a multivariate regression that predicts total rebound percentage in the NBA with height and weight as our predictor variables, what do we find? Those two pieces of information do a pretty good job of predicting rebounding performance– the adjusted R2 = .6584 and both factors were statistically significant at a p <.05 level). DeJuan Blair may stand six-feet seven-inches tall but he packs about 270 pounds, so he’s a refrigerator down low. DeMar Derozan, by comparison, is as tall as Blair but about 60 pounds lighter and grabs about a third of Blair’s share of rebounds. On the flipside, height gives players an obvious advantage as well (R = .756). Interestingly enough, weight had the strongest correlation of any tested variable (R = .772).

This makes sense and shouldn’t surprise anyone. It’s tough to find a short stick grabbing boards left and right. But what if we add another variable to the mix? Let’s replace height as a predictor variable with standing reach instead, as some have called for. The logic being, that necks don’t grab rebounds– hands do. So, does standing reach and weight predict rebounding rates better than raw height and weight? Turns out it doesn’t, at least not by this method. The adjusted R2 slides down to .647 which is lower than the predictive strength of raw height and weight. The correlation between rebounding and height is .756 whereas with standing reach it is .739.

So, the next thing I wanted to do was see if wingspan is a significant predictor of rebounding once we control for height and weight. Surprisingly, it isn’t at the p < .05 level (p=0.52) while height and weight remained significant. The adjusted R2 was .6576 which tells us that the model’s goodness of fit didn’t improve after adding wingspan as a predictor variable. Hmm.

I’m having some trouble explaining that finding. You’d think that wingspan would definitely help to explain a player’s rebounding in the NBA but that doesn’t seem to be the case. Sure, it certainly helps to have longer arms but on the whole it doesn’t seem to be of great tangible benefit in rebounding. Need examples? Javale McGee has the tallest reach of any of the 241 players in the study (he can actually come within 7 inches of touching the rim standing up) and yet he’s merely an average rebounding center. He and Chris Kaman share the same height but Kaman’s wingspan is 6 inches shorter than McGee’s. Who’s the better rebounder? The heavier Kaman. You’d think McGee would put that 7’6″ wingspan to better use on the boards.

Oh, and Patrick O’Bryant.

http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/07/01/nba-hd-are-standing-reachwingspan-overvalued/


I stumbled on this article when I was trying to look up Alonzo Gee's wingspan and weather it might help him in guarding small forwards. Anyways the boards have been slow, and I thought this was kind of interesting. What do you guys think of the value between Height, Standing Reach/Wingspan, and weight as it pertains to rebounding?

Obstructed_View
07-20-2010, 12:37 AM
The two guys with the biggest wingspan on the team are Duncan and Blair. You do the math. :)

GSH
07-20-2010, 12:44 AM
My personal opinion? Height is obviously a good thing to have when fighting for boards. But a large percentage of rebounds don't involve any fighting. Technique, commitment to getting rebounds, and the philosophy of the team all have a lot to do with how many boards a player actually pulls down.

None of his multivariate analysis does anything to explain the fact that Jason Kidd has averaged 6.6 RPG for his entire career - or that his RPG numbers have been substantially better in the second half of his career, as compared to the first half.

If you're just looking at big dumb bastards hanging out under the basket, then height and weight are definitely a factor. But the guys who pull down a lot of boards aren't big dumb bastards hanging out under the basket.

I guess you could argue that weight plays a big part in allowing a guy to get position. But so does quickness. And so does anticipation. Kidd picks up a lot of boards by being quick, and being in the right place at the right time. But so do a lot of the big guys - at least the ones that are good rebounders.

tuncaboylu
07-20-2010, 01:36 AM
Rebounding can not be done by only weight and wingspan. They can helpi but they don't mean everything. It requires anticipation and challenge and the player who wants to get rebound too much gets it usually.

I don't remember that Rodman and Barkley has a wingspan over 7', but they were great rebounders anyway.

L.I.T
07-20-2010, 01:42 AM
Basically, with regards to rebounding, I think this points out that those hard to quantify 'intangibles' are a primary differentiator.

Aside from his freakish length, this helps explain how Blair is so damn good, or even how Rodman dominated, though he was rarely the tallest or the guy who can jump the highest (though he did have astounding 'second hops').

scottspurs
07-20-2010, 02:27 AM
You can't teach size, but at the same time having size doesn't make you tough. You have to have a combination of both along with fundamentals to be a great rebounder in the association.

Chieflion
07-20-2010, 03:02 AM
The guy did a good analysis. I thought I saw this type of analysis before. Unfortunately for him, players are not robots and do not have the same mentality for grabbing boards compared to the other guy.

Baseline
07-20-2010, 03:02 AM
What is Bonner's wingspan again?

I think if he stands under the basket with his arms up, he can come within two feet of touching the net.

And in terms of footspeed, the Spurs' staff doesn't measure his drills with a stopwatch. They use a calendar.

Chieflion
07-20-2010, 03:07 AM
What is Bonner's wingspan again?

I think if he stands under the basket with his arms up, he can come within two feet of touching the net.

And in terms of footspeed, the Spurs' staff doesn't measure his drills with a stopwatch. They use a calendar.

6"8.75 for wingspan. His standing reach is 8'9.5.

ChuckD
07-20-2010, 07:30 AM
Anything, when considered in a vacuum, can be an over rated criteria. All other things being equal, though, I'll take the guy with the longer span every time.

K-State Spur
07-20-2010, 07:39 AM
Rebounding can not be done by only weight and wingspan. They can helpi but they don't mean everything. It requires anticipation and challenge and the player who wants to get rebound too much gets it usually.

I don't remember that Rodman and Barkley has a wingspan over 7', but they were great rebounders anyway.

Agreed. Rodman had better measurables than he often gets credit for, but there is no way that you rebound to the extreme level that he did without being committed and using your brain. The guy had it down to an art.

ohmwrecker
07-20-2010, 09:08 AM
Charles Barkley. Butts are for rebounding.

stnick2261
07-20-2010, 10:06 AM
For a bigman to rebound, they are most effective if they can box out the opposing player. For that, it helps if they have the weight to push them around. Height isn't necessary if you can effectively box someone out because, hopefully, you don't have to jump over someone for it. So I can see how weight is the biggest factor.

After that... technique, reach, vertical, timing, understanding angles... and possibly having someone else on your team who can box out (Rasho was good at boxing out and even if he didn't get the rebound, it allowed easier rebound for other Spurs players).

hater
07-20-2010, 10:14 AM
IMO it's a little overrated. The bigger guy can still push you around and shoot over you.