Why do many assume that Pop will over-play Bonner?

[K-State Spur]

Unless you believe any minutes are too much (which probably isn't true for regular season, but is for playoffs).

But there seems to be the stigma here that Pop just won't be able to resist playing Bonner heavily in the rotation.

However, last year Bonner played only the 4th most MPG of big men. Dyess and Blair both got more in their first year in the system, and now the team has added splitter.

When the team is healthy, and who knows how often that will be true, why would it be expected that bonner would see more than 5-8 mpg as a situational player? There's 96 minutes for Bigs to play - Duncan will take up 28-32, Dyess will get 20, Blair will get 20+, which leaves roughly 30 for Splitter, Bonner, and small ball to split.

[completely deck]

You're taking SpursTalk trolls wayyy too seriously. They've won.

[hater]

it's not the amount of minutes. its the amount of damage playing Bonner causes to the Spurs.

he can easily shoot the Spurs out of a quarter in < 3 minutes. Which has happened a lot last year

[K-State Spur]

it's not the amount of minutes. its the amount of damage playing Bonner causes to the Spurs.

he can easily shoot the Spurs out of a quarter in < 3 minutes. Which has happened a lot last year

i don't think it happened that often - the guy doesn't shoot THAT much and he is a solid regular season perimeter shooter (this team lacks many perimeter shooters of any variety at this point).

i've got a bad feeling that this thread is going to turn me into coming across as a bonner defender - which i'm not. i just don't see his return as the utter disaster that some of you obviously do.

[MannyIsGod]

I used to make these threads about Finley and Pop a few years ago.

We all know how those turned out.

[20beastie45]

Tiago needs those minutes simply so he can adapt to NBA and Spurs system ASAP....I'm not a complete Bonner hater. He's knows our system. But if we can win with Tiago taking most of Bonners old minutes and continue to do so......I see Bonner finding himself getting garbage minutes.

It's all about Chemistry One Unit

[urunobili]

Can we have a sticky for all Bonner related rants?:lol

[silverblk mystix]

ANY minutes that Bonner gets is TOO MANY!!!!!!

ANY minutes that Bonner gets is taking minutes away from Blair, Dice,Splitter---and someone else more deserving.

[K-State Spur]

I used to make these threads about Finley and Pop a few years ago.

We all know how those turned out.

Finley wasn't taking away minutes from any actual talent until George Hill (who was originally used primarily as a PG) came along. Did it really matter whether Finley was playing ahead of Udoka?

Even then, while it took too long, but Pop did eventually realize his mistake.

In this year, we have 3 bigs who Pop already has demonstrated a willingness to play more minutes than Bonner and that's before adding the best big man in Europe into the fold.

And then, when you take into account Pop's love affair with small ball and the occasional inevitable minutes that RJ will see at the 4 (assuming he comes back) - and there is very limited time available for Bonner barring some major injuries. And if those take place, we're screwed whether Bonner plays or not.

[MannyIsGod]

Dude you and I both know that Pop is like a crackhead for overplaying vets. Assume its going to happen until proven wrong.

[Dex]

I think it's partially because with the additions last year (Dice, Blair, Jefferson, Haislip, Gist) during the offseason, people figured Bonner would be played out of the rotation for sure.

Instead, there he was, starting on opening night, and a mainstay throughout the entire season and playoffs (except for when he broke his hand).

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I think the size of his new contract is part of the issue. Logically what you're describing makes sense. With Splitter in the fold it's entirely possible that by May Bonner could be playing the fewest minutes of any big on the entire team. But when the Spurs sign a guy to a long contract and give him a raise does that sound like they are thinking he'll be playing spot minutes? It's a summer of ridiculous contracts and we may never know what kind of numbers other teams might have offered Bonner. It could be that it's out of deference to the fact that the three bigs ahead of Bonner don't have a healthy knee between them and the Spurs were taking no chances in locking up a known asset in Bonner. Both of those ideas make sense, but until the season starts there's always going to the fear that Pop has lost his mind and gave that contract to Bonner expecting big things in the future.

[4>0rings]

ANY minutes that Bonner gets is TOO MANY!!!!!!

ANY minutes that Bonner gets is taking minutes away from Blair, Dice,Splitter---and someone else more deserving.Bout sums it up.

[K-State Spur]

Dude you and I both know that Pop is like a crackhead for overplaying vets. Assume its going to happen until proven wrong.

Is that truly the case?

A couple notes:

1) Duncan and Dyess are vets. Bonner won't play more than them barring injuries. Blair played MORE than Bonner as a rookie. If he gets the G. Hill treatment this year, he should eat into Bonner's minutes even more. And it's not like Splitter is some raw rookie, he's going to play more than Bonner by a good margin (barring injury*).

2) What truly talented young players have been sat by Pop in favor of the vets? Hill a bit as a rookie, I will grant. But that was as much due trying to force him into the back-up PG role as it was anything else. Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Hill, SJax, Malik, Antonio Daniels, Speedy, Devin Brown - all came to the Spurs as unproven NBA talent (some more raw than others) and were heavy rotation players either their first or second year with the team. None languished on the bench for all eternity.

There are a lot of young guys (James White!) that we, as fans, wish Pop would play over the low ceiling vets. But, in most cases, the guys never blossomed period and Pop was proven right.

*re-occurring theme

[K-State Spur]

I think it's partially because with the additions last year (Dice, Blair, Jefferson, Haislip, Gist) during the offseason, people figured Bonner would be played out of the rotation for sure.

Instead, there he was, starting on opening night, and a mainstay throughout the entire season and playoffs (except for when he broke his hand).

Gist and Haislip obviously weren't up to the NBA challenge at that point.

If a similar situation unfolds this year - i.e. Splitter and Blair struggle opening up room for Bonner to step in - then we have much bigger problems than Bonner getting PT.

[hater]

i don't think it happened that often - the guy doesn't shoot THAT much and he is a solid regular season perimeter shooter (this team lacks many perimeter shooters of any variety at this point).

i've got a bad feeling that this thread is going to turn me into coming across as a bonner defender - which i'm not. i just don't see his return as the utter disaster that some of you obviously do.

Well the fact that Spurs office is touting the Bonner resigning as the 2nd most important signing in the offseason leads me to beleive Pop will give him similar minutes as last year.

which is way, way, way too many. He sucks at D and as you say, might be a solid regular season shooter but when it matters shrinks like a red wet testicle.

[K-State Spur]

Well the fact that Spurs office is touting the Bonner resigning as the 2nd most important signing in the offseason leads me to beleive Pop will give him similar minutes as last year.


Bonner can only get the same minutes as last year:

a) if we see a major injury (screwed anyways)
b) if he plays more than dyess and/or blair - 2 guys who got more PT than bonner during their first year with the team
c) if splitter plays 0 mpg next year

if you have been led to believe that pop will give him similar minutes, which of those items do you believe is going to happen?

barring the injury factor, i think if bonner gets too much PT this year, it will be in the form of 8-12 mpg. i'll be mildly shocked if he gets 17 mpg on a healthy roster.

[DesignatedT]

Bonner is a great 5th big to have. It's as simple as that. If the Spurs want to pay there 5th big that much money than whatever, Holt can do what he wants. He should get less playing time than any of the other 4 bigs (Duncan,Dice,Blair,Splitter) and shouldnt even see the court during the playoffs. Of course he is going to play during the regular season with Duncan and Dice having there minutes watched by pop. Duncans minutes will continue to decline and would be very surprised if he didn't sit out b2b's this season. Bonner will play and he should play during the regular season, there were not better options out there via FA who could come in and know the system like he does. The Bonner hate is ridiculous and while I am defending him right now by no means am I a "Bonner Lover" but just stfu about the guy.

[ohmwrecker]

Actually, Bonner's minutes were seriously reduced last season. Well under the '08-'09 season. I know the injury might have accounted for some of that (and I would like to see him at no more than 15per this season), but I think, if the Spurs are genuinely healthy that Pop would prefer to use Bonner in situational match-up sense. Does that contradict the size of his contract? Absolutely. I can't explain that with logic or reason. I can only assume the FO are making the best decisions for the franchise.

One of the reasons I hope Splitter has an "above expectations" kind of year (aside from the obvious) is that it will force Pop to keep Bonner out of mismatched situations. Blair having a big 2nd year improvement will also help tremendously. Barring injury, there is no reason for Bonner to play more than 15 min per game this year.

[ElNono]

It's difficult to gauge anything with Pop, as far as playing time goes, and who plays in front of who. Duncan is pretty much the only constant there.

You look back at last season and...

Regular season averages:
- Duncan 31 mpg
- Dice 20 mpg
- Blair 18 mpg
- Bonner 18 mpg
- Small Ball 9 mpg

Playoffs averages:
- Duncan 37 mpg
- Dice 24 mpg
- Blair 9 mpg
- Bonner 17 mpg
- Small Ball 9 mpg

At first sight, you see Blair basically losing his minutes to both Duncan and Dice, and becoming effectively tied for 4th/5th big with Small Ball. The only big loser here is Blair. All the others either kept their minutes or increased them.

That's why when people make it sound like Blair (or even Splitter for that matter) is going to automatically be in front of Bonner in the rotation, you really need to take a step back and see that's not necessarily what Pop thinks.

But I want to add one more thing. In the very last game of last season, game #4 against Phoenix at home, Bonner probably had his best game shooting-wise (5-6 from the floor, 2-3 from downtown) scoring 14 points. In that instance, Pop actually ended up playing Bonner 30 minutes. The minute-losers that time around ended up being Blair (7 min), Dice (19 min) and Small Ball (4 min).

Now, you would think that makes sense, because he was shooting well. But a closer look at the stat sheet will also show you that he only managed to collect 3 boards in all that time. Blair, in the same game, collected just as many boards in only 7 minutes.

And eventually this is why Pop will over-play Matt. In his newly found love for offense and shooters, whenever he feels Matt has a hot hand, he will try to ride him even to a fault, even if it means giving up second chances, and even in the most important games of the season.

[angelbelow]

Bonner is a great 5th big to have. It's as simple as that. If the Spurs want to pay there 5th big that much money than whatever, Holt can do what he wants. He should get less playing time than any of the other 4 bigs (Duncan,Dice,Blair,Splitter) and shouldnt even see the court during the playoffs. Of course he is going to play during the regular season with Duncan and Dice having there minutes watched by pop. Duncans minutes will continue to decline and would be very surprised if he didn't sit out b2b's this season. Bonner will play and he should play during the regular season, there were not better options out there via FA who could come in and know the system like he does. The Bonner hate is ridiculous and while I am defending him right now by no means am I a "Bonner Lover" but just stfu about the guy.

Hes a great 5th big for the appropriate price.

Has Bonners contract been released yet?

[K-State Spur]

newly found love? pop has been trying to surround duncan with as many shooters as possible since the day he drafted him.

[DesignatedT]

Hes a great 5th big for the appropriate price.

Has Bonners contract been released yet?

No, but its reported to be around 3-4 mil/year. Again, why does it even matter? If Holt is dedicated and not concerned about going over the cap than who cares what he gets payed.You're not paying for it. Holt has showed hes committed to pay to win so who cares..

[ElNono]

newly found love? pop has been trying to surround duncan with as many shooters as possible since the day he drafted him.

In the perimeter, yes. Only since Horry came around we've started with the stretch 4 nonsense.

[K-State Spur]

In the perimeter, yes. Only since Horry came around we've started with the stretch 4 nonsense.

Really? Pop moved David out from under the hoop during Tim's early years, then replaced him with Rasho based primarily on Rasho's (perceived) ability to knock down the 12 footer.

It may not have been labeled as a "stretch 4" back when Tim was clearly labeled as the 4 himself, but Pop has always been about increasing the spacing of the offense so that Tim had room to operate and teams had to think twice before doubling him.

[Nathan89]

I want the regular season minutes for the bigs to look like this:
Duncan-30min
Splitter-20min
Dice-18min
Blair/Bonner-Have 28 minute to split. One might get a few more the other depending on the match-ups. Their avg. will boost on the blowouts.

[SenorSpur]

Why do many assume that Pop will over-play Bonner?

Because that's what he does.

We all know that Pop has, at times, demonstrated "blind loyalty" to some veteran players, whether their performance warranted it or not. Michael Finley was the most recent, and most obvious, example. Despite his streaky shooting, he was overplayed at 3 positions, to a point where he became counterproductive.

We've seen it too many times before. Some even older veterans were allowed to hang around, or even be acquired, when they were obviously a year or two past their prime. While Robert Horry earned the right to play as long as he wanted, Pop probably kept him around a year too long. Same for Jacque Vaughn and Nick Van Exel.

As for Bonner specifically, he's sucked the last 2 postseasons and what do the Spurs do? Resign him with a 4-yr contract and then reward him with a raise. He'll get as many minutes as he has before. Minutes in which Pop hopes he'll "spread the floor" with his shooting. Pop values this so much because of the fine work Horry did when he was here. The difference is Horry was a superb defender and super-clutch performed, whereas Bonner is the exact opposite. Still, Pop values the shooting aspect and must really believe that Bonner is the "rare bird" that is virtually irreplaceable. If he didn't think so, why did he not try and find an upgrade over Bonner?

It's the long leash theory, that young, talented and sometimes erratic, young players are not afforded. In that regard, Pop is really no different than any other veteran coach.

[lefty]

Because they have to justify his salary

[ElNono]

Really? Pop moved David out from under the hoop during Tim's early years, then replaced him with Rasho based primarily on Rasho's (perceived) ability to knock down the 12 footer.

It may not have been labeled as a "stretch 4" back when Tim was clearly labeled as the 4 himself, but Pop has always been about increasing the spacing of the offense so that Tim had room to operate and teams had to think twice before doubling him.

I'm talking stretching all the way to the three point line. To the point where you simply are giving up any possibility for an offensive board. Besides DRob, Rasho, Nazr even Oberto, were all paint bigs. They all could play their size and they all defended well.

But I'll tell you what, let's say it's not a newly found love. I don't want to waste time on the minutiae.
Anything else you disagree with in my post?

What makes you think Bonner will be the 4th big behind TD, Dice and Blair, especially when the playoffs roll around?

[ElNono]

I want the regular season minutes for the bigs to look like this:
Duncan-30min
Splitter-20min
Dice-18min
Blair/Bonner-Have 28 minute to split. One might get a few more the other depending on the match-ups. Their avg. will boost on the blowouts.

If you think Pop will not play small ball, then you have not been paying attention for the last couple of years.

I mean, I would love if he wouldn't, but I just don't see it happening.

[ohmwrecker]

Because they have to justify his salary

I would hope that the hubris of Pop and RC would not swell to that magnitude, but it sure would explain a lot.

[K-State Spur]

He'll get as many minutes as he has before.

At whose expense?

That's kinda my whole point in this thread. We can all just say that Pop will overplay MB as a generality (it makes sense)...but when you actually start breaking down the logistics of the matter - extended PT for MB on a healthy roster becomes pretty unlikely.

[Nathan89]

If you think Pop will not play small ball, then you have not been paying attention for the last couple of years.

I mean, I would love if he wouldn't, but I just don't see it happening.

I don't think were are going to see much small ball this year. Last year we had four capable bigs duncan,dice,bonner and blair(rookie). This year we have five capable bigs that can match up with most teams without playing small ball. I just can't see one big and rj on the court with four bigs on the bench happening to often.

[ElNono]

At whose expense?

That's kinda my whole point in this thread. We can all just say that Pop will overplay MB as a generality...but when you actually start breaking down the logistics of the matter - extended PT for MB on a healthy roster becomes pretty unlikely.

It's going to be at the expense of Blair, McDyess, Splitter and even small ball if necessary. Not that this is really news either.

[ElNono]

I don't think were are going to see much small ball this year. Last year we had four capable bigs duncan,dice,bonner and blair(rookie). This year we have five capable bigs that can match up with most teams without playing small ball. I just can't see one big and rj on the court with four bigs on the bench happening to often.

I would hope so. At least this season we have some more mobile bigs in Splitter and Blair, so we wouldn't really need to. I also wouldn't be opposed if the 9 minutes or so we played small ball last season would be the 9 minutes Bonner plays out there, since when he's out there we're basically playing a hybrid small ball anyways (he just sits on the perimeter).

That I can be ok with. Give his 18 minutes from last season to Splitter.

Then again, I'll believe it when I see it.

[nkdlunch]

Newsflash to the OP: Bonner has been a below average player getting above average minutes.

From the looks of the Spurs front office this is not going to change in 2010-2011

[K-State Spur]

It's going to be at the expense of Blair, McDyess, Splitter and even small ball if necessary. Not that this is really news either.

a) Do we expect Splitter to get less than 20 mpg when we have a need for an athletic big to pair with Duncan? Remember that Manu got 21 minutes as a rookie coming over from Europe (and was probably more raw than Splitter) - and essentially sent a proven vet in Steve Smith to the bench.

b) So Blair and Dyess are each going to play more than Bonner during their first year with the clubs, but are going to play less than him (which would have to happen for him to keep his minutes) now that they have a year under their belts?

Apparently, we are going to harp on Pop's over-reliance on a handful of vets in the past (even when the alternatives were equally flawed), but ignore his track record for giving players more PT as they gained familiarity with the system.

[Dr. Gonzo]

There weren't any other bigs worth a shit on the team last season to play ahead of Bonner.

[K-State Spur]

Newsflash to the OP: Bonner has been a below average player getting above average minutes.

From the looks of the Spurs front office this is not going to change in 2010-2011

Never said Bonner was average or above. Maybe you should read the OP before calling out the OP.

what bonner does do, is fill a role that nobody else on the roster (or available at a price the spurs could pay) does. there may be better big man options, but they would be redundant to what we have.

the question here is not bonner's talent (or lack of) - just whether or not pop will lean on the existing options primarily and limit bonner to spot duty/favorable match-ups.

[ElNono]

a) Do we expect Splitter to get less than 20 mpg when we have a need for an athletic big to pair with Duncan? Remember that Manu got 21 minutes as a rookie coming over from Europe (and was probably more raw than Splitter) - and essentially sent a proven vet in Steve Smith to the bench.

You can try to rationalize it any way you want. I could pull out threads from last summer claiming that the logical thing to do is to play Bonner for 10-15 mins and that Blair would be ahead of him come playoff time.

Apparently what people think the Spurs 'need' doesn't necessarily overlaps with what Pop thinks this team needs. We've needed an athletic big for two seasons now. The Spurs went and got Gooden and McDyess. So again, don't automatically assume that what you think is what Pop thinks.


b) So Blair and Dyess are each going to play more than Bonner during their first year with the clubs, but are going to play less than him (which would have to happen for him to keep his minutes) now that they have a year under their belts?

As I said, it's very difficult to understand what goes through Pop's mind. The only certainty is that Duncan will get his. Now, if you think they just handed +$10m to somebody because they're about to demote him from literally the 3rd big to 5th big, then either you know something we do not, or the FO has much bigger plans for Matt.


Apparently, we are going to harp on Pop's over-reliance on a handful of vets in the past (even when the alternatives were equally flawed), but ignore his track record for giving players more PT as they gained familiarity with the system.

I want to believe you. I do. If we go with familiarity with the system, then I have pretty low hopes of seeing much of Splitter this season, especially by the time the playoffs roll around. If the balance is so much weighed to being familiar with the system, then Bonner can easily claim superiority over any of the other guys. I'd like to think that's not the only rationale for handing out PT.

[ElNono]

I'm really disappointed nobody pulled the "But Pop watches them in practice" card yet...

[Dr. Gonzo]

I'm really disappointed nobody pulled the "But Pop watches them in practice" card yet...

I trust Pop to do what's best more than some dumb shit forum poster.

[baseline bum]

I used to make these threads about Finley and Pop a few years ago.

We all know how those turned out.

:lol I was about to post the exact same thing.

[baseline bum]

Finley wasn't taking away minutes from any actual talent until George Hill (who was originally used primarily as a PG) came along. Did it really matter whether Finley was playing ahead of Udoka?

http://img.fannation.com/upload/si_blog_post_images/25061/bruce-bowen-spurs.jpg

[Dr. Gonzo]

Bowen was done. In 2008 Finley>>Bowen.

[baseline bum]

Bowen was done. In 2008 Finley>>Bowen.

I seem to remember the Spurs going into Staples in the 2008 WCF and going up 20 on the Lakers with Bowen all over Kobe Bryant. The second Pop subbed him out Kobe went nuts and LA erased that lead real fast.

[underdawg]

Bowen was done. In 2008 Finley>>Bowen.

Based on what? Oh yeah that's right - Finley had better practices than Bowen. Your stupidity is outstanding.

[underdawg]

There weren't any other bigs worth a shit on the team last season to play ahead of Bonner.

except maybe McDyess or Blair

And yes Mahinmi

[DesignatedT]

Finley and Bowen were and have both been done for awhile now. If people really think Bowen would have turned us into some championship team last year than your a moron.

[angelbelow]

No, but its reported to be around 3-4 mil/year. Again, why does it even matter? If Holt is dedicated and not concerned about going over the cap than who cares what he gets payed.You're not paying for it. Holt has showed hes committed to pay to win so who cares..

Who cares? In terms of the owner willing to pay, its true, if he wants to pay him then so be it. (Although this could easily change at anytime. Just because hes dedicated to win doesn't mean hes willing to go over the luxury tax every fucking season.)

But the bottom line is that if Bonners contract is 3-4 million its a bad contract. Doesnt matter whose willing to pay it. The Spurs pride themselves on bring in players at appropriate rates. I can only pray that they are consistent with Bonners contract.

-Eats up 3/4 million of our cap room. This can prevent us from signing players if it means going over the tax, this could make us think twice and hesitate about resigning players that actually contribute, Ex. Hill is likely to be extended next year, Blair is a few years away as well.
-Won't be a trade asset until his 3rd or 4th year, so if it just so happens that hes the 5th big/12th overall player off the bench, he'll just be there. 12th man making 3/4 million isn't an ideal situation for an NBA team.
-Bonners skill level is probably worth 2 million at most. Hes above average when it comes to 3s, but he doesn't do much else well. He doesnt rebound well, drive, pass, or defend. Don't get me wrong, he always puts in the effort, but his skill level doesnt allow hard work to make up his deficiencies.
-Even guys like Finley, Bowen, Horry made 3-4 million a season. But the level of contributions from the players that I just named are astronomically greater than Bonner's. So what is the justification?
-The last time Bonner got paid, it prevented us from signing a high caliber player like Scola, if Bonner got 3 or 4 million dollars again, we just better hope that it doesn't prevent any future roster moves.

[Dr. Gonzo]

except maybe McDyess or Blair

And yes Mahinmi

:lmao mahinmi

[Fabbs]

http://img.fannation.com/upload/si_blog_post_images/25061/bruce-bowen-spurs.jpg
:lol nicely done.

A thread could just as appropriately (actually moreso) be made entitled
"Why do any assume 'Popped will play Bonner an appropriate number of minutes?"

[ElNono]

I trust Pop to do what's best more than some dumb shit forum poster.

And we all do, because none of the dumb shit forum posters actually coach the team, yet are fans enough to stop over here and invest time talking about their team as much or more than you do.

So getting back to the actual thread:
Do you think Pop over-plays Bonner? If you think he does, why?

[Bruno]

I'm all for Pop giving significant minutes to Bonner during the regular season to rest Duncan and Dice.

If Pop start to play Bonner instead of Blair or Splitter in the RS or if Bonner is part of the playoffs rotation, it will suck.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Pop had limited options for most of last season, and those of you who say he overplayed Bonner are wrong. Which big should have absorbed those minutes? Tim? There were calls on this forum for him to sit out 1/2 of all back to backs, and he was running on empty when the playoffs began. When Ian saw the light of day, he racked up fouls at a prohibitively fast rate. Blair was a rookie, and Pop was bringing him along. McDyess was getting acclimated and is no spring chicken either. The options just weren't there, and as a result, Bonner got more minutes, and up until the hand injury, he contributed fairly consistently. I was at the Indiana game, and his shooting helped build a double digit lead in the first half. After he broke his hand and left, the offense fell apart and the lead evaporated. If it hadn't have been for some hustle and luck, we would have lost that game.

It sucked that he disappeared during much of the playoffs, but he never really got his rhythm back after recovering from the injury. I am hoping that Bonner gets situational minutes next season, kind of like Horry did previously. I seriously doubt that he'll ever earn the moniker Big Shot Matt, and he sure doesn't have the defensive moxie, but those are the shoes that need to be filled on this team, and it seems like Pop and company, for better or worse, have decided he's the guy. It seems to me that Matt will have a limited but important role, and I'm pulling for the him to step up.

The thing that I look forward to seeing is what combinations of bigs work best now that Splitter is here. Do Splitter and Tim start together, or does Splitter come in with Manu (assuming Manu comes off the bench)? Where and when does Blair fit in? Dice? Bonner is just going to have a bit part next year, imho.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Is that truly the case?

A couple notes:

1) Duncan and Dyess are vets. Bonner won't play more than them barring injuries. Blair played MORE than Bonner as a rookie. If he gets the G. Hill treatment this year, he should eat into Bonner's minutes even more. And it's not like Splitter is some raw rookie, he's going to play more than Bonner by a good margin (barring injury*).

2) What truly talented young players have been sat by Pop in favor of the vets? Hill a bit as a rookie, I will grant. But that was as much due trying to force him into the back-up PG role as it was anything else. Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Hill, SJax, Malik, Antonio Daniels, Speedy, Devin Brown - all came to the Spurs as unproven NBA talent (some more raw than others) and were heavy rotation players either their first or second year with the team. None languished on the bench for all eternity.

There are a lot of young guys (James White!) that we, as fans, wish Pop would play over the low ceiling vets. But, in most cases, the guys never blossomed period and Pop was proven right.

*re-occurring theme


The problem isn't the amount of PT, it's that he's getting any. Damn. Can't remember how many times we trotted Bonner out off the bench, only to see a team go on an 8-10 point run while Bonner clanged threes and watched his man score uncontested buckets.

[baseline bum]

Finley and Bowen were and have both been done for awhile now. If people really think Bowen would have turned us into some championship team last year than your a moron.

Bowen wouldn't have gotten the Spurs past LA, but he's still easily a far superior defender to Jefferson, Bogans, Hill, Parker, Ginobili, or Mason, and he would have been able to hit an open three unlike Jefferson, Bogans, or Mason.

[underdawg]

:lmao mahinmi

you said "bigs"

rebounding - Mahinmi
shot blocking - Mahinmi
defense - Mahinmi
3 Pt shot - Bonner
Sky Hook - Bonner

= Mahinmi the better "Big"

[K-State Spur]

Based on what? Oh yeah that's right - Finley had better practices than Bowen. Your stupidity is outstanding.

i think he meant '08-'09 (in '07-'08, bruce was still a starter playing 30+ mpg).

in retrospect, bruce would have been a better option than finley, but he clearly was in the decline at that point. Pop may not have made the right choice, but he didn't have much of a hand to play at that juncture.

[DesignatedT]

you said "bigs"

rebounding - Mahinmi
shot blocking - Mahinmi
defense - Mahinmi
3 Pt shot - Bonner
Sky Hook - Bonner

= Mahinmi the better "Big"

Mahinmi cant go 1 minute without picking up a foul. Explain how that is good defense. The poor guy averaged 8 fouls a game last summer league.... Yes, 8.....

[K-State Spur]

The problem isn't the amount of PT, it's that he's getting any. Damn. Can't remember how many times we trotted Bonner out off the bench, only to see a team go on an 8-10 point run while Bonner clanged threes and watched his man score uncontested buckets.

Stats don't really back that up. My problem with Bonner is that he is a playoff mental midget. His +/- (a flawed stat I admit) regular season numbers should be much worse if leads routinely evaporated (and were never rebuilt) on his watch.

(In the regular season) Sure, he clangs 3s, but he shoots at a high percentage that it's worth it for him to take them.

I think people lock into his misses and dismiss his makes.

If his regular season numbers translated the playoffs, there would be a (limited) place for him in a playoff rotation. The problem is that he goes from mildly useful in certain situations during the regular season to completely terrible when the real season starts.

That said, he's also become a bit of a scapegoat for the team's 3 year title drought - and does provide (a little) more value than most on here will admit.

[underdawg]

Mahinmi cant go 1 minute without picking up a foul. Explain how that is good defense. The poor guy averaged 8 fouls a game last summer league.... Yes, 8.....

that's not accurate - based on his NBA stats last year he would average 4 fouls per 20 minutes. I'd doubt he would ever get more than 20 minutes of playing time.

News flash - young bigs get fouls and it's part of playing defense - the fact that Bonner only averaged 2 fouls per 20 minutes should tell you that his defense needed more aggression.

[DesignatedT]

that's not accurate - based on his NBA stats last year he would average 4 fouls per 20 minutes. I'd doubt he would ever get more than 20 minutes of playing time.

News flash - young bigs get fouls and it's part of playing defense - the fact that Bonner only averaged 2 fouls per 20 minutes should tell you that his defense needed more aggression.

:lol take the goggles off bro. Obviously Bonner isn't as strong as other bigs in the league and it shows with his post defense but that doesn't mean hes not a smart defender. He plays great positional and team defense and rarely makes a mistake on a rotation or anything to that extent which becomes extremely important in the Spurs system. He can't jump or fly around like the athletic bigs and doesn't have the strength as some others but he's definitely an all around better defender than what Mahinmi has shown so far.

[underdawg]

Ian is gone and we still have sharp shooter boner, but I still think we'd be better off with a young, inexpensive big that has some shot blocking ability that could help our defense in the paint.

Hopefully Splitter has some of that ability, but I don't know enough about him to know any better.

[DesignatedT]

Ian is gone and we still have sharp shooter boner, but I still think we'd be better off with a young, inexpensive big that has some shot blocking ability that could help our defense in the paint.

Hopefully Splitter has some of that ability, but I don't know enough about him to know any better.

Definitely agree there but I don't think mahinmi would have been that guy at all. I do think Ratliff could have filled that role but we gave him away for nothing.

Splitter plays good defense and is a shot-blocker.

[underdawg]

:lol take the goggles off bro. Obviously Bonner isn't as strong as other bigs in the league and it shows with his post defense but that doesn't mean hes not a smart defender. He plays great positional and team defense and rarely makes a mistake on a rotation or anything to that extent which becomes extremely important in the Spurs system. He can't jump or fly around like the athletic bigs and doesn't have the strength as some others but he's definitely an all around better defender than what Mahinmi has shown so far.

I agree - he rotates well, but that doesn't hide his inability to get of the ground to contest shots or the movement necessary to recover after an opponent has gone past him. When your best defensive move is to put you arms in the air and close your eyes while the opponent shoots - that's not good defense. You take your goggles off - boner lover

[Chomag]

Why do some of you seem all hell bent on defending someone that gives nothing when it matters most at playoff time?

Bonner could make over a thousand 3's in the regular season but who cares. Seriously, him and his worth isn't even worth arguing over.

[DesignatedT]

I agree - he rotates well, but that doesn't hide his inability to get of the ground to contest shots or the movement necessary to recover after an opponent has gone past him. When your best defensive move is to put you arms in the air and close your eyes while the opponent shoots - that's not good defense. You take your goggles off - boner lover

Not a Bonner lover at all but he isn't the reason we lost last season and he isnt the reason if we lose next season. People constantly putting blame on him just becomes annoying to me. I would have rather Bonner left.... along with Ian, Mason, and Bogans. They're all scrubs.

[DesignatedT]

Why do some of you seem all hell bent on defending someone that gives nothing when it matters most at playoff time?

Bonner could make over a thousand 3's in the regular season but who cares. Seriously, him and his worth isn't even worth arguing over.

Many that defend him continue to state that he would be a good "5th" big man on the roster... which is obviously true. If he is the 5th big man he gets limited time and plays behind Duncan,Blair,Splitter,Dice which doesn't leave much time. They aren't many "5th" big guys in the NBA that give anything when it matters most at playoff time. Nobody is saying Bonner should play more minutes, start games, or even see the floor playoff time but if he's used like many of us continue to say than it could be a good thing. He knows the system well and is our best 3 pt shooter on the team. If he gets some minutes during the regular season to help limit Duncan and Dice than that's fine.

[K-State Spur]

that's not accurate - based on his NBA stats last year he would average 4 fouls per 20 minutes. I'd doubt he would ever get more than 20 minutes of playing time.


in fairness, ian's foul rate has been rough at every level that he has played. he makes some highlight worthy plays on both ends because of his athleticism, but his ability to ever regularly avoid foul trouble is very much in question.

[underdawg]

Not a Bonner lover at all but he isn't the reason we lost last season and he isnt the reason if we lose next season. People constantly putting blame on him just becomes annoying to me. I would have rather Bonner left.... along with Ian, Mason, and Bogans. They're all scrubs.

there are many reasons why the Spurs have failed in the playoffs since 2007, but Bonner's only fault was his untimely poor shooting. His defense has always been below average (as far as defending the paint or individual defense.)

He was just used too much and the Spurs have continued to decline in defense - seeing him get big minutes while Blair and McDyess sat was pretty frustrating but not Bonner's fault. Say what you want about Bonner's rotations, but he brings little to the Spurs defense in terms of a big. If the Spurs fail to improve their defense in the paint, they will not succeed.

[ElNono]

I would have rather Bonner left.... along with Ian, Mason, and Bogans. They're all scrubs.

Only one scrub is looking at a $10+ million payday...

tbh, this whole thing has nothing to do with Matt at all. I actually met him in person and he seemed like one of the nicest players I've met. He's a good kid and I'm glad he realized his dream of playing in the NBA. I just wish it would be on another team, but I digress... Let's see how the minutes are distributed as the season goes along, then we can discuss pro and cons.

Ultimately this is somewhat what happened last season. People were clinging to the +/- and then he got injured, and we kept on playing just as well and winning without him. Then the playoffs came around and I believe somebody here was actually keeping track of his +/- and he was pretty terrible throughout until the last 1 or 2 games.

If I have to make a prediction, I'll say he'll get more minutes than he deserves, he'll choke in pressure situations again, and we'll be hearing how there just weren't that many good players in front of him, since Splitter was just a rookie, Blair a sophomore, and Dice is done. Rinse and repeat for another 3 seasons.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing that would make me happier as a Spurs fan to be completely off-track about this.

[DesignatedT]

there are many reasons why the Spurs have failed in the playoffs since 2007, but Bonner's only fault was his untimely poor shooting. His defense has always been below average (as far as defending the paint or individual defense.)

He was just used too much and the Spurs have continued to decline in defense - seeing him get big minutes while Blair and McDyess sat was pretty frustrating but not Bonner's fault. Say what you want about Bonner's rotations, but he brings little to the Spurs defense in terms of a big. If the Spurs fail to improve their defense in the paint, they will not succeed.

Dice started and played more minutes than bonner all playoffs. No way Bonner should get more minutes than Blair this year. That's for sure.

Spurs defense has gotten considerably worse all around. Not having the perimeter defense we used to have also hurts. Plus, Blairs defense is nothing to rave about and him getting minutes over Bonner won't improve are defense in the paint... Our rebounding sure. Fact is Duncan declining in defense and our lack of perimeter defense are the main reasons are defense has suffered.

[20beastie45]

Bonner will go to Toros and be D-League MVP.

[DesignatedT]

Only one scrub is looking at a $10+ million payday...

tbh, this whole thing has nothing to do with Matt at all. I actually met him in person and he seemed like one of the nicest players I've met. He's a good kid and I'm glad he realized his dream of playing in the NBA. I just wish it would be on another team, but I digress... Let's see how the minutes are distributed as the season goes along, then we can discuss pro and cons.

Ultimately this is somewhat what happened last season. People were clinging to the +/- and then he got injured, and we kept on playing just as well and winning without him. Then the playoffs came around and I believe somebody here was actually keeping track of his +/- and he was pretty terrible throughout until the last 1 or 2 games.

If I have to make a prediction, I'll say he'll get more minutes than he deserves, he'll choke in pressure situations again, and we'll be hearing how there just weren't that many good players in front of him, since Splitter was just a rookie, Blair a sophomore, and Dice is done. Rinse and repeat for another 3 seasons.
Don't get me wrong, there's nothing that would make me happier as a Spurs fan to be completely off-track about this.

The points you make are exactly why I rather he left. If he is used like a 5th big and only gets major minutes when Duncan or Dice takes the night off than I love the signing. Thing is I don't trust that happening... which is why I would have rather he just left. I don't want him getting major minutes but don't mind him getting some minutes.

[underdawg]

Dice started and played more minutes than bonner all playoffs. No way Bonner should get more minutes than Blair this year. That's for sure.

Spurs defense has gotten considerably worse all around. Not having the perimeter defense we used to have also hurts. Plus, Blairs defense is nothing to rave about and him getting minutes over Bonner won't improve are defense in the paint... Our rebounding sure. Fact is Duncan declining in defense and our lack of perimeter defense are the main reasons are defense has suffered.

do you think part of why our perimeter defense has suffered is because we're trying to help in the paint too much?

Blair lacks height (and that often hurts us,) but he does provide decent post up defense and like you said rebounding is a huge plus for him over Bonner.

McDyess might have started, but if you look at his time in Detroit - he had more minutes per game. Maybe he needed the rest, but there were many times that he sat and bonner gave up points.

[DesignatedT]

do you think part of why our perimeter defense has suffered is because we're trying to help in the paint too much?

Blair lacks height (and that often hurts us,) but he does provide decent post up defense and like you said rebounding is a huge plus for him over Bonner.

McDyess might have started, but if you look at his time in Detroit - he had more minutes per game. Maybe he needed the rest, but there were many times that he sat and bonner gave up points.

I think the main reason perimeter defense has hurt is just age. Manu is not the defense he used to be.. Obviously Bowen is one of the greatest of all time. Hill is vastly overrated on defense around here but he is a decent defender but then undersized. I think Splitter can help this problem by having another shot blocker other than Duncan but Manu and TD slowing way down and Bowen not being here anymore simply brought our defense down to average.

I'm fine with Blairs defense. If Boston can win with Big Baby than we can do it with Blair.

[will_spurs]

I trust Pop to do what's best more than some dumb shit forum poster.

Good for you, but unfortunately Pop already proved that he's not always doing "what's best", like lpaying Bonner AT ALL during the playoffs. You could have a 7-foot cardboard outline and it would be the same (well, the cardboard would have to be decorated with diamonds to cost $4 million per year).

If Bonner is indeed a 5th big he would be playing fewer than 10 minutes per game this season... and something tells me the Spurs are not paying anybody that kind of money for 10mpg. So you can fully expect to see Bonner at least 20mpg during the regular season, at the expense of Splitter (who will be collecting fouls, and we know that after 2 fouls a player's career is basically over, at least that's what Pop seems to be thinking) and Blair (because he's too good to get minutes). And then when comes playoff time you will still see Bonner there because the kids (Splitter, Blair) are "not ready".

The only thing that would be a nice surprise would be to see the Spurs going big, putting e.g. Duncan AND Bonner AND Blair on the court at the same time. But I don't think that's going to happen.

[diego]

all i know is that we went through all season thinking dyess was being saved for the playoffs, and he played a whopping 3.5 extra minutes. bonner played about the same as in the RS- too much.

[DesignatedT]

all i know is that we went through all season thinking dyess was being saved for the playoffs, and he played a whopping 3.5 extra minutes. bonner played about the same as in the RS- too much.

Yeah Dyess should have played more. Phoenix forced us to go small though. The Dallas series wasn't badly distributed. Duncan with 37/gm, Dice with 26/gm, Bonner with 16/gm, Blair with 9/gm. I would have liked to see Blair get more PT but fully except that this upcoming season. Plus those numbers are kind of hard to look at without thinking about game 5 of the series. Duncan and Dice hardly played.

[The Truth #6]

Bonner's minutes were probably down because he was injured for a while. If they want to save Dice from the first half of the season when he's committed to saving himself/not trying as hard, then Bonner has a great chance to play more. Hopefully Blair and Splitter earn more minutes and are rewarded. Then again, Bonner is great in meaningless games so Pop has to be wise in when to play Bonner. Some games it's a great idea to play Bonner. Against better teams, not so much.

[Obstructed_View]

Unless I'm mistaken, Bonner was ahead of Blair in the rotation. If Bonner hadn't gotten hurt he'd have probably logged more minutes than Blair.

I don't assume Pop will overuse him, but I fear he will. Why, you ask? Theo Ratliff, Ian Mahinmi, Michael Finley, Keith Bogans.

[SCdac]

We won like 10 games (1/5 of our wins) with Matt Bonner on the injured list last season, and a few games where Bonner played less than 6 minutes. When we beat the Suns back in february, Bonner played a grand total of 7 seconds (while Blair put up 14/7 in 19 minutes). I really don't see what the Spurs staff sees in him, as anything more than a Ryan Anderson kind of player (scrub, with useful range). In the months leading up to the playoffs he was shooting around 37% from three point land in roughly 20 mpg, and that didn't improve under the pressure of playoff basketball... Not worth it IMO... He's going to be stealing minutes from either Blair, Splitter, or McDyess, no doubt in my mind. Anybody who's watched Pop in the last 2 years knows he's bound to be over played, relative to his skill and impact on the game.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Bonner can only get the same minutes as last year:

a) if we see a major injury (screwed anyways)
b) if he plays more than dyess and/or blair - 2 guys who got more PT than bonner during their first year with the team
c) if splitter plays 0 mpg next year

if you have been led to believe that pop will give him similar minutes, which of those items do you believe is going to happen?

barring the injury factor, i think if bonner gets too much PT this year, it will be in the form of 8-12 mpg. i'll be mildly shocked if he gets 17 mpg on a healthy roster.


These type of posts make too much sense for most posters on this board. If Bonner even gets on the court this forum will be overwhelmed by individuals claiming how we lost the game due to the Red Rocket.

If Pop trusts Bonner than I trust Bonner.

[ElNono]

Bonner can only get the same minutes as last year:

a) if we see a major injury (screwed anyways)
b) if he plays more than dyess and/or blair - 2 guys who got more PT than bonner during their first year with the team
c) if splitter plays 0 mpg next year

if you have been led to believe that pop will give him similar minutes, which of those items do you believe is going to happen?

barring the injury factor, i think if bonner gets too much PT this year, it will be in the form of 8-12 mpg. i'll be mildly shocked if he gets 17 mpg on a healthy roster.

Let's dispel some of the inaccuracies first...

a) Bonner indeed played as many mpg as Blair during the regular season, even though he was injured for a stretch there, and was certainly handed more minutes than Blair during the playoffs.

b) We played almost 10 mpg without Bonner, Dice or Blair, both on the regular season and the playoffs (small ball)

c) Splitter can take those 10 minutes from small ball and Bonner can certainly play the same amount of minutes as last season.

I actually expect Duncan and Dice minutes to be reduced a bit more this season, seeing we need those legs fresher for the postseason. That should open up a bit more time for Splitter.

I also do think Pop is not going to go away from small ball entirely, so I do expect Bonner and Blair minutes to take a small hit to accommodate for that.
I just don't see his minutes halved from 20 to 8-10... but we'll see.

[baseline bum]

If Pop trusts Bonner than I trust Bonner.

Worked great with Finley and Udoka.

[DesignatedT]

Worked great with Finley and Udoka.

Finley played a solid 3 seasons for us and helped win a ring in 07. He was one of the best players on the court for us in the 06 playoffs and while he started to slow down in 08 he was not even close to being the reason we lost that year. The hate for him is beyond retarded. Udoka just sucked ass and everyone knew this.

[ElNono]

When you think about it, the hate is not for the players, but the fact that they were out there taking somebody else's minutes. In Finley's case, the silliness over his two year extension was well documented at the time, when he was coming out of a pretty weak season ('08), and he indeed ended up taking minutes from rookie Hill in the playoffs the year after.

[ElNono]

Worked great with Finley and Udoka.

Don't forget the Centerpiece and Mason the backup PG... :lol

That said, perceived mistakes and all, there's no other coach I would rather have coaching this team... :hat

[DesignatedT]

When you think about it, the hate is not for the players, but the fact that they were out there taking somebody else's minutes. In Finley's case, the silliness over his two year extension was well documented at the time, when he was coming out of a pretty weak season ('08), and he indeed ended up taking minutes from rookie Hill in the playoffs the year after.

Totally agree although I don't feel that he was that bad of a player then. Of course I would have liked some of his minutes distributed elsewhere but he was always a solid player here. He even shot a career high in 3 pt % shooting 131-319 that season. People tend to spread blame on guys like Finley when hes actually performing well enough for us. Every year we haven't won the championship it was because our big 3 weren't good enough (or healthy). Hating on Finley is straight retarded to me. just my opinion and you definitely don't compare Bonner to Finley. Finley was the opposite of Bonner when it came to playoffs and big shots.

[ElNono]

Totally agree although I don't feel that he was that bad of a player then. Of course I would have liked some of his minutes distributed elsewhere but he was always a solid player here. He even shot a career high in 3 pt % shooting 131-319 that season. People tend to spread blame on guys like Finley when hes actually performing well enough for us. Every year we haven't won the championship it was because our big 3 weren't good enough (or healthy). Hating on Finley is straight retarded to me. just my opinion.

The problem is that you normally end up with the last image. In that 2008 series against the Lakers, their young second unit with Farmar, Sasha, Radmanovic and Turiaf were running circles around ours composed of guys like Finley, Horry, Barry and Oberto. To top it all off, Kobe was in-check until Udoka let him catch fire, and that's all she wrote. If you look at that Spurs roster, the only other guys that actually got any burn in the playoffs that season were Bonner, Vaughn, and Damon Stoudamire. We were already getting too long in the tooth to be handing out two season contracts to people quite over the hill.

[DesignatedT]

The problem is that you normally end up with the last image. In that 2008 series against the Lakers, their young second unit with Farmar, Sasha, Radmanovic and Turiaf were running circles around ours composed of guys like Finley, Horry, Barry and Oberto. To top it all off, Kobe was in-check until Udoka let him catch fire, and that's all she wrote. If you look at that Spurs roster, the only other guys that actually got any burn in the playoffs that season were Bonner, Vaughn, and Damon Stoudamire. We were already getting too long in the tooth to be handing out two season contracts to people quite over the hill.

Well we did let guys like Horry and Barry walk after that season and while I understand your point I don't understand how bringing back Finley was such a bad move when he was so familiar and the best 3 pt shooter we had. If the Spurs and Holt were willing to go over the cap back in 08 and 09 like they are now than bringing Finley back wouldn't have been a big deal. He still would have been a great player to have coming off the bench and all that. Obviously he ended up starting that year and playing more minutes than I would have liked but when your committed to staying under the cap they're not many other options at that point.

[ElNono]

Well we did let guys like Horry and Barry walk after that season and while I understand your point I don't understand how bringing back Finley was such a bad move when he was so familiar and the best 3 pt shooter we had. If the Spurs and Holt were willing to go over the cap back in 08 and 09 like they are now than bringing Finley back wouldn't have been a big deal. He still would have been a great player to have coming off the bench and all that. Obviously he ended up starting that year and playing more minutes than I would have liked but when your committed to staying under the cap they're not many other options at that point.

I think the sour part of that deal was not having the second season as a team option. Especially after he has shown some decline, and the Spurs picking up Hill in the draft that year. Obviously, the Spurs didn't know then how Hill was going to pan out, but it would have made more sense to have a way out. Ultimately it cost the Spurs in development time for Hill and the fact that they just had to let Finley walk away without getting anything in return.

[DPG21920]

He got paid. He got paid (so it seems) more than a 5th big should. That means they value him and plan to use him.

[DesignatedT]

He got paid. He got paid (so it seems) more than a 5th big should. That means they value him and plan to use him.

Correct me if im wrong but Bonner has been making close to 3.0-3.5 mil/yr since we traded for him in 2006 correct? Well from 06-08 Bonner was rarely used in the regular season and barely saw the time of day in the playoffs.... making him our 5th big still making that kind of money.

[The Truth #6]

Defending Bonner by saying he won't play much? We went through this line of thought with Finley for several years. Of course Bonner will play. They just severely overpaid him. He shouldn't even be on the team.

Finley apologist is now Bonner apologist. That's convenient.

[DesignatedT]

Defending Bonner by saying he won't play much? We went through this line of thought with Finley for several years. Of course Bonner will play. They just severely overpaid him. He shouldn't even be on the team.

Finley apologist is now Bonner apologist. That's convenient.

As I have stated over and over and over again. I wish Bonner would have left.

Finley was a great player for us. He doesn't deserve to be in the same sentence as Bonner.

[objective]

.

However, last year Bonner played only the 4th most MPG of big men. Dyess and Blair both got more in their first year in the system, and now the team has added splitter.

Minutes played in the playoffs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2010.html) :

Bonner : 173

Blair : 91

Sorry, Blair didn't get more last year.

[will_spurs]

Unless I'm mistaken, Bonner was ahead of Blair in the rotation.

He was not, the OP claims he was because Blair averaged 18.2mpg during the regular season and Bonner only 17.9mpg.

[Obstructed_View]

He was not, the OP claims he was because Blair averaged 18.2mpg during the regular season and Bonner only 17.9mpg.

Actually, I believe the OP claimed the opposite for the reasons you state. If nothing else I'm pretty confident stating that Bonner was ahead of Blair in the rotation far too often for most of us.

[will_spurs]

Actually, I believe the OP claimed the opposite for the reasons you state.

Oops... I mis-read that you were saying that Blair was ahead of Bonner in the rotation. So we actually agree. The 20 seconds per game difference accounts for nothing - last year Bonner was used as a "centerpiece" whereas Blair was used as a filler.

This is also why I don't understand the use of the word "assume" in the thread title. We don't "assume" anything, we already Bonner was getting too many minutes for his own good last year, and the kind of contract he signed points towards stability in his overusage.

[Obstructed_View]

Oops... I mis-read that you were saying that Blair was ahead of Bonner in the rotation. So we actually agree. The 20 seconds per game difference accounts for nothing - last year Bonner was used as a "centerpiece" whereas Blair was used as a filler.

This is also why I don't understand the use of the word "assume" in the thread title. We don't "assume" anything, we already Bonner was getting too many minutes for his own good last year, and the kind of contract he signed points towards stability in his overusage.

Agreed on all points. In addition, one would be wise to remember that Bonner started 67 games at center the season before, which is why so many Spurs fans were excited about Pops Mensah Bonsu at the time. Bonner's previous season high for starts was six, when he was in Toronto. Antonio Davis started more games than Bonner did and he was about 38 years old at the time.

[GhosTown]

I think it's partially because with the additions last year (Dice, Blair, Jefferson, Haislip, Gist) during the offseason, people figured Bonner would be played out of the rotation for sure.

Instead, there he was, starting on opening night, and a mainstay throughout the entire season and playoffs (except for when he broke his hand).

And when he broke his hand we had one of our best stretches of wins all year. Get rid of Bonner and get back to winning.

[analyzed]

Just a thought, could it be that the reason for Bonner's long term contract ( 4 yrs) was more a conscious effort to prepare for year's 3 and 4 when both Duncan and Dice will no longer be around. And not necessary for the immediate future years 1 and 2, where we have enough bigs to fill up the minutes

[ElNono]

Just a thought, could it be that the reason for Bonner's long term contract ( 4 yrs) was more a conscious effort to prepare for year's 3 and 4 when both Duncan and Dice will no longer be around. And not necessary for the immediate future years 1 and 2, where we have enough bigs to fill up the minutes

You mean we're planning on tanking by playing Bonner 30+ min at center? I could see that being a strategy. :lol

[jermaine]

1st unit will be!
Pg Parker/Hill
Sg Manu
Sf Jefferson
Pf Duncan
C. Splintter

2nd unit is!
Pg Hill/Parker
Sg Anderson
Sf Bonner
Pf Blair
C. Dice!

[TJastal]

1st unit will be!
Pg Parker/Hill
Sg Manu
Sf Jefferson
Pf Duncan
C. Splintter

2nd unit is!
Pg Hill/Parker
Sg Anderson
Sf Bonner
Pf Blair
C. Dice!

Either Parker plays 6th man or Manu, Hill and Jefferson come off the bench. Pop is going to have to pick one or the other at some point, sooner or later. (preferably sooner)

I know the Tony Parker fanboys won't like it, but I'd keep Parker in that 6th man role, if for the simple fact that the Hill/Manu/RJ starting lineup worked so well last year and moving/changing 3 key guys' roles will more likely cause problems/disrupt chemistry.

And the reality here is it looks like Jefferson is going to be around for awhile while Parker may be gone after next season. Might as well get Hill some experience in running the team as a point guard.

Furthurmore, I think Parker is perfectly suited for the 6th man role. It allows him to come in and focus mostly on what he does best, which is scoring.

[TJastal]

In that breath... this would be my lineups

PG Hill
SG Manu
SF Jefferson
PF Splitter (maybe not at first, but at some point)
C Duncan

6th man Parker

Bench: McDyess, Blair, Hairston (I wanna see what this guy's got with some regular minutes), Anderson

Spot minutes (possibly crack rotation): Neal

Guard water cooler: Bonner

[K-State Spur]

1st unit will be!
Pg Parker/Hill
Sg Manu
Sf Jefferson
Pf Duncan
C. Splintter

2nd unit is!
Pg Hill/Parker
Sg Anderson
Sf Bonner
Pf Blair
C. Dice!

i'd be surprised if we ever see that second unit on the floor together - even for a short stretch - nowhere near enough ball-handling.

[DesignatedT]

PG- Parker
SG- Hill
SF- RJ
PF- Duncan
C- Dice
-----------
PG-Temple
SG-Manu
SF-Hairston/Anderson
PF-Blair
C-Splitter/Bonner

[EmantheSpursFan]

As much as i despise Bonner in the Playoffs i think it was essential to keep him for regular season insurance. If you look at the stats for the first part of the season McDyess was fairly avg (at best) i would give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he was learning the system but he's not getting younger and although i have faith he will show up when it matters (ala Horry) its wise to keep his minutes down as much as possible. If you look at Bonners stats pre injury he was actually doing pretty well
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=1996
Its pretty good to have a player who can go off for 15+ points off of 50% in regular season while your Ace up the sleeve McDyess gets some rest.

Hopefully Tiago is as good as advertised and can come add some toughness to our lineup while Bonner keeps us afloat for the beginning stretch of the season.

[EmantheSpursFan]

PG- Parker
SG- Hill
SF- RJ
PF- Duncan
C- Dice
-----------
PG-Temple
SG-Manu
SF-Hairston/Anderson
PF-Blair
C-Splitter/Bonner

That second unit seems pretty legit if everyone can live up to expectations

PG-Temple (defender)
SG-Manu (creator)
SF-Anderson (shooter, hoping he can be as good as 05 brent barry)
PF-Blair (rebounding machine, with soft hands and hopefully a new jump shot)
C-Tiago (Oberto 2.0)
I think this second unit can be very sucessful if everyone plays there part

[Blackjack]

With apologies to the writers of one of the great American movie scenes.

Setting: A luncheon hosted by the Spurs for Season Ticket Holders who have not yet renewed for 2010-11. Coach Pop takes questions from the fans....

Disgruntled Spurs Fan (DSF): Coach Popovich! Did you overplay the "big red?!!"

Peter Holt: You don't have to answer that question!

Coach Popovich (Pop): I'll answer the question. You want answers?

DSF: I think I'm entitled to them.

Pop: You want answers?!

DSF: I want the truth!

Pop: You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has balls, and those balls have to be hoisted by big men with red hair. Who's gonna do it? You? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Mahinmi, and you curse the Front Office. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Mahinmi's loss, while tragic, probably saved wins; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves wins.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about on internet message boards, you want Matt to shoot that ball -- you need Matt to shoot that ball.

We use words like "stretch four," "PER," "plus/minus." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very basketball greatness that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you buy a ticket and stand up and cheer. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!

DSF: Did you overplay the "big red?"

Pop: I did the job I was –

DSF: -- Did you overplay the "big red?!"

Pop: You're god damn right I did!!!

http://files.lakerhead.com/2009/06/popbefore.jpg

I WANT this to be posted here. I NEED this to be posted here . . . :rollin

[TD 21]

PG- Parker
SG- Hill
SF- RJ
PF- Duncan
C- Dice
-----------
PG-Temple
SG-Manu
SF-Hairston/Anderson
PF-Blair
C-Splitter/Bonner

Is this a depth chart or rotation? If it's a rotation, I think that's a long shot to say the least.

This is how I expect the rotation to be against elite - near elite teams (average - weaker teams, obviously more players will play and the key players will play less minutes generally) and in the playoffs.

I think Parker and Hill will start in the back court, but they'll be essentially a three guard rotation, with Ginobili. Anderson will see spot minutes there as well.

I expect one of Anderson/Hairston/free agent signing to primarily backup Jefferson. It will probably be based on matchup, depending on if more shooting is needed or another defender.

Amongst the bigs, my guess is Blair is the odd man out, unless Splitter is an abject failure in his first season. Even then, size and experience will likely win out in the case of McDyess and Splitter and the fact that three-point shooting is a need will likely keep Bonner in the rotation.