RJ watch is over. He'll re-sign tomorrow

[ohmwrecker]

People like TPark like to shit on Hairston as a potential starter, which doesn't really make sense. He can't possibly be much worse can than Jefferson was last season.

You're right. He could be much, much worse.

[tuncaboylu]

First of all New Jersey didn't have Travis Outlaw when the FA period started.

Second, if RJ is as good as he's billed here, he should have been a significant upgrade over Gallinari or Chandler in NY. Same could be argued for Sacramento.

Third, we still don't know what the Spurs offered or even what they were willing to match for RJ. Were they interested in matching a 5 year guaranteed deal? Over $10m/per deal? RJ made clear we was looking for a long term deal, but the Spurs never really stated what they would offer, simply that they would like him back.

Fourth, add the Blazers who handed out a $33m/5 year deal for Wesley Matthews. The Suns after moving Amare had a huge trade exception that they decided to spend on Hedo + pieces. Same for Toronto after the Bosh deal.

So, you know, the fact that two days ago we were scrapping the bottom of the barrel for a starting SF, and we still are to see if we can pick up a backup pretty much tells you that the market was very active for those guys.
Which makes the lack of demand for RJ even more glaring.


I've protest on some issues. New York: After failing to get Lebron, New York is changed their tactics from win-now to wait till 2012 summer. Now they're getting 2 years contracts at most and that's very shorted than Jefferson's demands.

Same as New Jersey, they're rebuilding and want to gamble with Outlaw who has a potential to improve. On the other hand Jefferson is Jefferson and he won't improve.

Sacramento have Omri Casspi on their roster and he's improving. They didn't want to get a veteran SF in front of him.

Suns don't have anything in return of Jefferson, so sign&trade was not an option with them. Blazers would want him I guess, but they don't have more than MLE this summer and it's also less than Jefferson's demand.

The teams that you listed as potential suitor are not available destinations for Jefferson.

I afraid that Cavs may go after Jefferson following of Lebron's exchange. But I really couldn't find the reason why they didn't.

[ElNono]

I've protest on some issues. New York: After failing to get Lebron, New York is changed their tactics from win-now to wait till 2012 summer. Now they're getting 2 years contracts at most and that's very shorted than Jefferson's demands.

Same as New Jersey, they're rebuilding and want to gamble with Outlaw who has a potential to improve. On the other hand Jefferson is Jefferson and he won't improve.

Sacramento have Omri Casspi on their roster and he's improving. They didn't want to get a veteran SF in front of him.

Suns don't have anything in return of Jefferson, so sign&trade was not an option with them. Blazers would want him I guess, but they don't have more than MLE this summer and it's also less than Jefferson's demand.

The teams that you listed as potential suitor are not available destinations for Jefferson.

I afraid that Cavs may go after Jefferson following of Lebron's exchange. But I really couldn't find the reason why they didn't.

Now we're repeating ourselves. We've established that there *was* a market for Richard, but nobody was interested in giving him what he wanted. He obviously miscalculated grossly what he thought his value was. The question is why would the Spurs outbid themselves for his services?

Obviously, we won't know if they did until the actual deal numbers are out there.

[MaNu4Tres]

First of all New Jersey didn't have Travis Outlaw when the FA period started. .

Travis Outlaw signed not even 12 hours after free agents were eligible to sign with a team. http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5363686



Second, if RJ is as good as he's billed here, he should have been a significant upgrade over Gallinari or Chandler in NY. Same could be argued for Sacramento..

You are obviously unaware or oblivious on how team's value skill-level correlated with salary. There's no reason for them (Kings; Casspi, Knicks; Gallinari-Chandler, Blazers; Batum-Babbitt) to add significant salary at a position already garnered by very talented young starters on a cheap salary. It is dumb basketball economics (Unless you are David Kahn) to add significant salary at a position that's already set for cheap.




Third, we still don't know what the Spurs offered or even what they were willing to match for RJ. Were they interested in matching a 5 year guaranteed deal? Over $10m/per deal? RJ made clear we was looking for a long term deal, but the Spurs never really stated what they would offer, simply that they would like him back.

Spurs never state what they are going to offer to the public until the deal is sealed. There's been many rumors since July 2nd that R.J and Spurs had a deal in place. We don't know the parameters of what exactly transpired and we probably never will find out.



Fourth, add the Blazers who handed out a $33m/5 year deal for Wesley Matthews. The Suns after moving Amare had a huge trade exception that they decided to spend on Hedo + pieces. Same for Toronto after the Bosh deal. .

Wesley Matthews is a two-guard. Batum and Babbitt are the Blazers cheap and valuable options at small forward ( Jefferson's position). Again there's no need for the Blazers to add salary that only get's in the way of Batum and Babbitt's progression, especially Batum since he's already proven to be a valuable starter in the league.

[yavozerb]

C'mon now...this is seriously reaching. Yes, this will save the Spurs money. Yes, the Spurs don't have many other options. But this is done out of need...nothing more and nothing less. There is very little upside to keeping Jefferson.

The upside is that Hairston or Gee will not be given heavy minutes. I agree that this is done out of need but RJ has only been on the roster for 1 season and you act as if he is a 12th man. RJ at 6-8 mil is not that bad a deal (take a look around at other contracts signed this and previous years) and as history has shown he should be much better in season 2.

[SpurCharger]

ive heard 4 years 31.5 mil ...... the 4th year player option, only half guaranteed.... Tryin to find the link now... We needed RJ.... Im Hoping he is better this year....

[ElNono]

Travis Outlaw signed not even 12 hours after Free Agency started. http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5363686

And? They could have easily targeted Richard if they felt he was as good or had the same upside as Outlaw.


You are obviously unaware or oblivious on how team's value skill-level correlated with salary. There's no reason for them (Kings; Casspi, Knicks; Gallinari-Chandler, Blazers; Batum-Babbitt) to add significant salary at a position already garnered by very talented young starters on a cheap salary. It is dumb basketball economics (Unless you are David Kahn) to add significant salary at a position that's already set for cheap.

This is the Knicks we're talking about. :lol
But I digress, if RJ is not any better than any of those guys, how do you justify handing out $8m per for him?
If RJ didn't think he would get more than MLE offered, why didn't he sign earlier? What was there to explore if there was no market for him? What was the holdup? And if nobody is really ready to offer him more than MLE money, why should the Spurs?


Spurs never state what they are going to offer to the public until the deal is sealed. There's been many rumors since July 2nd that R.J and Spurs had a deal in place. We don't know the parameters of what exactly transpired and we probably never will find out.

Oh, I agree it's going to be really rare if we ever find out.


Wesley Matthews is a two-guard. Batum and Babbitt are the Blazers cheap and valuable options at small forward ( Jefferson's position). Again there's no need for the Blazers to add salary that only get's in the way of Batum and Babbitt's progression, especially Batum since he's already proven to be a valuable starter in the league.

Ok, scratch Blazers. How about Phoenix, who traded for that horrible Hedo contract?

[ElNono]

ive heard 4 years 31.5 mil ...... the 4th year player option, only half guaranteed.... Tryin to find the link now... We needed RJ.... Im Hoping he is better this year....

player option?

[Chieflion]

player option?

I have heard mutual option, a "player" option which is partially guaranteed. Never really heard of that before. So, why wouldn't RJ pick that option up? He would be bought out immediately after he picks up the option, making him a free agent. Good for both parties.

[ElNono]

I have heard mutual option, a "player" option which is partially guaranteed. Never really heard of that before. So, why wouldn't RJ pick that option up? He would be bought out immediately after he picks up the option, making him a free agent. Good for both parties.

I see Pierce has somewhat the same deal in the last year of his contract...

[Chieflion]

I see Pierce has somewhat the same deal in the last year of his contract...

That option is just a cheat code for NBA franchises. They shouldn't allow that.

[oligarchy]

I see Pierce has somewhat the same deal in the last year of his contract...

Please explain what you mean by "has somewhat the same deal in the last year of his contract."

[Chieflion]

But we're going to sell our house 2 years later and we should watch as much as movie during this period. And while watching move, our eyes being tired and watching movie in TV is much confortable. Moreover we have enoguh money to buy 3D TV and we can spend that money to buy anything else.
That's why getting 3D TV is better than going at the moment.

But I don't want a rusting 3D TV in my new home. It will damage my other electronic appliances, especially the laptop I will be upgrading over the few years. I don't want it to be affected by the rust. I also want everything to look new as it gives me a sense of fresh air.

[TJastal]

ive heard 4 years 31.5 mil ...... the 4th year player option, only half guaranteed.... Tryin to find the link now... We needed RJ.... Im Hoping he is better this year....

I highly doubt RJ will be better this year. He is going on 31, and his athleticism is starting to wane. When you figure most of his points last year came on raw athleticism he'll be lucky to match last year's production, considering that's on the decline.

Unless Pop pairs him up exclusively with Manu/Hill, where he'll be getting fed on fast breaks regularily (where he's effective) he'll be relatively useless (can't spread the floor well, not a good creator of offense).

[will_spurs]

I highly doubt RJ will be better this year. He is going on 31, and his athleticism is starting to wane. When you figure most of his points last year came on raw athleticism he'll be lucky to match last year's production, considering that's on the decline.

Why would he be asked to score? Pretty much everybody else on the roster is there to score, starting from the great backcourt all the way to our very own "spread 4". It's not all about offense (even though he can contribute on e.g. the fast break or some nice alley-oops with Parker), he can be asked to focus only on the defensive aspect, which is almost the "traditional" role the Spurs 3s.

The Spurs of recent years definitely needed some more athleticism but not from RJ (see Blair, Splitter).

[ElNono]

Please explain what you mean by "has somewhat the same deal in the last year of his contract."

Excerpt from here (http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5382419)

In making the announcement, the Celtics gave no details of Pierce's deal. ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher reported at the time of the agreement that it was a four-year, $61 million contract, with the fourth year fully guaranteed. The Boston Herald reported that there is a mutual option for the last year.

More comment on this RealGM thread (http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1025312).

[TJastal]

Why would he be asked to score? Pretty much everybody else on the roster is there to score, starting from the great backcourt all the way to our very own "spread 4". It's not all about offense (even though he can contribute on e.g. the fast break or some nice alley-oops with Parker), he can be asked to focus only on the defensive aspect, which is almost the "traditional" role the Spurs 3s.

The Spurs of recent years definitely needed some more athleticism but not from RJ (see Blair, Splitter).

If all were asking of our starting 3 is defense I'd much rather throw Hairston into the fire and see what he's got.

[buttsR4rebounding]

At the very least an offensive/defensive production that would put him over Hill when closing out games. That would be an average production at best, something he was unable to pull out obviously, otherwise he would have been out there.

What do you call average production? Strictly speaking the "average" NBA player scores around 8 points a game and gets about 3 rebounds. Even if you shorten the team to 10 players that get minutes the average would be about 10 points and 4 rebounds. RJ did better in both areas as a 4th option. So, specifically what production would make you happy with him? Oh, by the way, RJ was in 11 out of the top 12 5-man units for the Spurs according to 82games.com.

[DPG21920]

The people typing in blue have serious comprehension problems. The tv comment was with regards to value, not need. Just because RJ might be a good value compared to his overall talent does not mean it makes sense to sign him long term.

A LTD if that is what this turns out to be is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[CaptainLate]

If all were asking of our starting 3 is defense I'd much rather throw Hairston into the fire and see what he's got.

With Bruce the Noose, you got D plus ability to spread the floor via corner 3's. Is Hairston able to do that?

[Cane]

But I don't want a rusting 3D TV in my new home. It will damage my other electronic appliances, especially the laptop I will be upgrading over the few years. I don't want it to be affected by the rust. I also want everything to look new as it gives me a sense of fresh air.

So lets just buy a $100, 22 inch TV made from low quality vendors. Sure its going to suck ass but its better to save now right?

[Agent]

A 4-year deal worth around $32 million.

He opted out of a $15 million dollar deal, so that became the baseline from which to begin negotiations. He essentially gets a deal with MLE money (something he may have been able to swing in the open market) for the balance of the contract - around $5 to $6 million per season.

So, $15 mil + ~$17 mil = ~$32 mil

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol

[dbestpro]

A 4-year deal worth around $32 million.

He opted out of a $15 million dollar deal, so that became the baseline from which to begin negotiations. He essentially gets a deal with MLE money (something he may have been able to swing in the open market) for the balance of the contract - around $5 to $6 million per season.

So, $15 mil + ~$17 mil = ~$32 mil

If this is the case he easily saved the Spurs 5-6 mil or more in tax savings thus playing the equal of one year for free when you look at it form the presepctive of Holt's pocket.

[ElNono]

What do you call average production? Strictly speaking the "average" NBA player scores around 8 points a game and gets about 3 rebounds. Even if you shorten the team to 10 players that get minutes the average would be about 10 points and 4 rebounds. RJ did better in both areas as a 4th option.

You're trying to equate 'production' to merely point and rebounds, and production is a lot more than that. Bruce Bowen never cracked 8 ppg or 4 rpg in the peak of his career with the Spurs but his production and impact on a nightly basis, especially in our system, was many times over what RJ gave us last season.

I will point you to a great post from HarlemHeat earlier in this thread (here (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4526214&postcount=181)) that goes beyond raw numbers and into advanced stats. Obviously, I'm also a believer in that there's nothing better than actually watching the games.


So, specifically what production would make you happy with him? Oh, by the way, RJ was in 11 out of the top 12 5-man units for the Spurs according to 82games.com.

And the Spurs got swept in the second round. So we're looking to improve production in ALL positions (including RJs), so the next couple of seasons, while Tim is still around, is not like last season.

[TJastal]

With Bruce the Noose, you got D plus ability to spread the floor via corner 3's. Is Hairston able to do that?

Hairston shot 41% from 3pt range in d league last year, and as far as I know their lines are painted at the same distance from the baskets as the nba lines.

[RiverwalkParade]

what time is this thing supposed to go down?

[HarlemHeat37]

I thought Jefferson could go back to being a good defensive player and focusing on other aspects, because he used to be a good defender in NJ..my theory was that he still had it in him, but he didn't show it in the 2 seasons prior due to high usage and responsibility on offense..I was wrong though, his injuries and lack of lateral quickness were glaring, and he seems to have lost any defensive energy he once had, which hurts even more due to his lack of basketball IQ..

So I don't really know why anybody would believe he could just emerge as a defender next year, when he's already shown he can't, and he's only going to get slower and less athletic..

TBH, I think a lot of people have already forgotten how bad and irrelevant he was for the Spurs last season..

He's still obviously an upgrade over Hairston and Gee, but that's pretty much by default right now..

[benefactor]

The upside is that Hairston or Gee will not be given heavy minutes. I agree that this is done out of need but RJ has only been on the roster for 1 season and you act as if he is a 12th man. RJ at 6-8 mil is not that bad a deal (take a look around at other contracts signed this and previous years) and as history has shown he should be much better in season 2.
I never insinuated that RJ was the 12th man. I was simply responding to the comment made by MaNu4Tres...in which he describes re-signing RJ at 7-8 million a year as "robbery". Clearly it's not robbery or anything close. If anything it's a deal made out of necessity for both sides and there is substantial risk for the Spurs in committing multiple years to him(both from a fit perspective and the fact that he is 30 and relies more on athleticism than skill).

[Shifty]

what time is this thing supposed to go down?

I was wondering the same thing. Tiago's was at 2pm Spurs time. Maybe they will do the same.

[E-RockWill]

Hilarity will ensue when the Spurs do not make any announcement today.

[Shifty]

Hilarity will ensue when the Spurs do not make any announcement today.

Not even Bonner's contract information of 5 years for $50 millions?

[MaNu4Tres]

I never insinuated that RJ was the 12th man. I was simply responding to the comment made by MaNu4Tres...in which he describes re-signing RJ at 7-8 million a year as "robbery". Clearly it's not robbery or anything close. If anything it's a deal made out of necessity for both sides and there is substantial risk for the Spurs in committing multiple years to him(both from a fit perspective and the fact that he is 30 and relies more on athleticism than skill).

You are misunderstanding what was said clearly .. I said there's a chance since we are dealing with him while his stock is at an all time low. A CHANCE, I didn't say his new deal is "robbery" . There's a clear difference.

[benefactor]

You are misunderstanding what was said clearly .. I said there's a chance since we are dealing with him while his stock is at an all time low. A CHANCE, I didn't say his new deal is "robbery" . There's a clear difference.

There's a good chance Spurs may be getting away with robbery with this new deal, considering Jefferson's stock is at an all-time low.
You should probably specify what type of deal you consider to be robbery if you are making such an assertion. IMO, the only thing that would be even remotely close would be a 3 year deal with the last year fully/partially non-guaranteed at somewhere just above the MLE. Even then, it's still probably not robbery but just a good deal. Anything larger/longer than that becomes a value now but a huge risk later.

[oligarchy]

There's a good chance Spurs may be getting away with robbery with this new deal, considering Jefferson's stock is at an all-time low.

[ElNono]

what time is this thing supposed to go down?

I don't think there's anything announced. I believe we'll just find out through the usual channels (E-N, Woj, Twitter, etc)

[MaNu4Tres]

I never said it is robbery :lol I said there's a chance it could be since his value is as low as it's ever been( 6-7.5 mil per). Especially considering Deng, Turkoglu, Lewis and Iggy's contracts compared to RJ's new deal and his new deal won't exactly hinder the future go read post 207.

[TJastal]

There's a good chance Spurs may be getting away with robbery with this new deal, considering Jefferson's stock is at an all-time low.

I love how this implies there's a chance that Jefferson's stock might suddenly skyrocket in a few years when his athleticism has basically fallen off a cliff..

:lol

[benefactor]

I never said it is robberry :lol I said there's a chance it could be since his value is as low as it's ever been( 6-7.5 mil per). espEcially considering deng, turkoglu, Lewis and iggy's contracts compared to RJ's new deal and his new deal won't exactly hinder the future go read post 207.
So what type of deal is robbery for the Spurs? BTW, just because other FO's are stupid and overpay players doesn't mean it becomes a good deal to overpay RJ but underpay him in comparison to those other players.

[SCdac]

I haven't given up on Jefferson yet, he's a highly skilled player who had a bad season. At the very least, Richard is one of the most athletic offensive and defensive players on the team. Not just athletic, but skilled and athletic. By season's end, he finished with the second most blocks on the whole team (yes he played the most minutes, but at least he's durable enough to do that, log more minutes than the Big-3 and play 80 something games). His man-to-man defense is average at best, but as a help defender he can be solid I think. The timing and proper rotations will come to him in time, but, for his size, he's capable of blocking a shot (or attempting to at least) and rising up to grab a crucial rebound (which was more than can be said for say, Finley). In Game 4 against the Mavs (toward the end of the first half), he swatted a Jason Terry lay up on one end and in transition finished a two handed dunk assisted by Parker on the other end. That kind of dynamic he brings to the Spurs at SF could probably afford to be kept around (hopefully it's no more than 7 million per season). I know he'll need the ball in his hands more, but if he can get more comfortable in his own shot (like Finley and Barry did), and more comfortable working off the ball in our system, he'll be a decent piece. At times last season he looked dejected, with a tendency to quit on plays, but hopefully it's all in the past. Surely he can get back to being a 15+ PPG player, as playing with SA becomes more natural to him. "Not being the best fit" is a much easier problem to solve, than being a bad/below-average/low-ceiling player.

[DespЏrado]

Jefferson is not the best player in the world, but he is a damn sight better than just about anything available out there. And if this team puts some chemistry together, which is likely to improve in RJ's second year, that may go a long way towards making up for his shortcomings.

Another thing, the rebounding should massively improve this year. Ryan Anderson is known for his rebounding. Manu and Hill have always been great. Timand Blair are rebounding gods. Throw in a little twin towers defense with Tiago and the Spurs should look to run with RJ a lot more.

And Tiago should be able to be a good double team worthy post up threat for the weak side meaning Jefferson's corner may be a lot more open than it was last year.

Add that up and it is way to early to give up on Jefferson.

[DPG21920]

The thing I hate about RJ now is he cannot help the Spurs. He can only not hurt them quite as much as last year.

[Cane]

The thing I like about RJ is that he can help the Spurs and moreso than he did last year.

[Nathan89]

I haven't given up on Jefferson yet, he's a highly skilled player who had a bad season. At the very least, Richard is one of the most athletic offensive and defensive players on the team. Not just athletic, but skilled and athletic. By season's end, he finished with the second most blocks on the whole team (yes he played the most minutes, but at least he's durable enough to do that, log more minutes than the Big-3 and play 80 something games). His man-to-man defense is average at best, but as a help defender he can be solid I think. The timing and proper rotations will come to him in time, but, for his size, he's capable of blocking a shot (or attempting to at least) and rising up to grab a crucial rebound (which was more than can be said for say, Finley). In Game 4 against the Mavs (toward the end of the first half), he swatted a Jason Terry lay up on one end and in transition finished a two handed dunk assisted by Parker on the other end. That kind of dynamic he brings to the Spurs at SF could probably afford to be kept around (hopefully it's no more than 7 million per season). I know he'll need the ball in his hands more, but if he can get more comfortable in his own shot (like Finley and Barry did), and more comfortable working off the ball in our system, he'll be a decent piece. At times last season he looked dejected, with a tendency to quit on plays, but hopefully it's all in the past. Surely he can get back to being a 15+ PPG player, as playing with SA becomes more natural to him. "Not being the best fit" is a much easier problem to solve, than being a bad/below-average/low-ceiling player.

Is it a good thing that you can recall this? I do not think so.

[DespЏrado]

The thing I hate about RJ now is he cannot help the Spurs. He can only not hurt them quite a much last year.

:lol Seriously he never helps the team?
Let's list his upside to the team

He's a live body out there.
He doesn't choke.
He is a capable 3 point threat.
He is a great finisher.
He can rebound well for his position.
He is deadly on the fast break and almost never blows anything in the paint.
He gets to the free throw line almost at will.
He is a very capable defender.
He can lead the team in scoring when called upon.
He has good ball handling skills for his size
He makes good decisions with the ball -doesn't turn the ball over
He doesn't over dribble or slow down the offense
He has good court vision and can pass it into Timmy without problems
He makes his free throws

The pluses far out weigh anything that hurts this team, He may not have it him to will a team to victory, but he can be called upon to rise to any occasion and do almost anything that is asked of him.

[DPG21920]

lol what

[TJastal]

lol what

lmao

[Muser]

lol what

+1

[Muser]

Capable Defender :lmao

[Cane]

Jefferson is not the best player in the world, but he is a damn sight better than just about anything available out there. And if this team puts some chemistry together, which is likely to improve in RJ's second year, that may go a long way towards making up for his shortcomings.

Another thing, the rebounding should massively improve this year. Ryan Anderson is known for his rebounding. Manu and Hill have always been great. Timand Blair are rebounding gods. Throw in a little twin towers defense with Tiago and the Spurs should look to run with RJ a lot more.

And Tiago should be able to be a good double team worthy post up threat for the weak side meaning Jefferson's corner may be a lot more open than it was last year.

Add that up and it is way to early to give up on Jefferson.

Good post except Anderson's first name is James.

There are no better realistic alternatives than RJ and he's still a capable basketball player. His durability is also an underrated quality and even this past season Malik got injured even though he played very limited and inconsistent minutes.

I'd rather go with RJ having another year in the system than starting over again with another starting caliber SF (which there doesn't seem to be any realistic ones available anyway) that has no experience. Another underrated quality imo.

[buttsR4rebounding]

You're trying to equate 'production' to merely point and rebounds, and production is a lot more than that. Bruce Bowen never cracked 8 ppg or 4 rpg in the peak of his career with the Spurs but his production and impact on a nightly basis, especially in our system, was many times over what RJ gave us last season.

I will point you to a great post from HarlemHeat earlier in this thread (here (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4526214&postcount=181)) that goes beyond raw numbers and into advanced stats. Obviously, I'm also a believer in that there's nothing better than actually watching the games.



And the Spurs got swept in the second round. So we're looking to improve production in ALL positions (including RJs), so the next couple of seasons, while Tim is still around, is not like last season.

I don't disagree with the fact that RJ is more effective with more touches (who isn't?). My point is that from an offensive production standpoint and a rebounding standpoint he has exceeded what we have had before. He obviously is not the defender that Bowen was (who is?), but he improved the last part of the season (and, afterall, don't we always say it takes a year to be able to play Pop's defense?). I believe the whole issue is that he made more money than anyone but Tim last year. If he came in for the MLE like most 4th options do everyone would have been fine with his production. THE SPURS KNEW THEY WERE OVERPAYING WHEN THEY TRADED FOR HIM! Now that it looks like he is coming back for a little over the MLE his pay will match his position on this team. If his defense continues to improve some I think he will be a significant part of the Spurs resurgence.

[nickdaquick]

Anything annouced yet?

[Shifty]

The thing I hate about RJ now is he cannot help the Spurs. He can only not hurt them quite as much as last year.

The thing I like about RJ is that he can help the Spurs and moreso than he did last year.

The thing I don't know if I like or hate about RJ now is that he might help or hurt the Spurs more or less so than he did last year.

One of you is going to be wrong by season's end. Please let it be DPG :lol

[SCdac]

Is it a good thing that you can recall this? I do not think so.

Haha I'm a die hard Spurs fan just like everybody else on this site... and best believe those Spurs-Mavs games aren't being erased from my DVR any time soon... I remember Jefferson's better moments, more so than his "invisible" moments, that's for sure... Like when he hit that game-winner back in January, etc... People dog on his defense, and I agree it ain't all that, but it's not like his talents on both ends never helped us win games, or will never in the future help... If he can maintain a consistent level of play (this is key), he's going to be a positive not a negative IMO... (assuming he's not being heavily over-payed, which was part of the problem).

[MaNu4Tres]

So what type of deal is robbery for the Spurs?

You are still misunderstanding me.

It is not just the deal.

With the Spurs refinancing R.J while his value is at an all-time low, the only way this new contract (6-8 mil per for 3/4 years) could become a "steal" is if he can live up to his proven potential that he's proved for many years before coming to SA.


Therefore his play will factor in as well obviously.

This scenario has a chance on happening. (Which I said previously)

Let me repeat, I did not say "R.J's new deal is robbery".

[oligarchy]

You are still misunderstanding me.

It is not just the deal.

With the Spurs refinancing R.J while his value is at an all-time low, the only way this new contract (6-8 mil per for 3/4 years) could become a "steal" is if he can live up to his proven potential that he's proved for many years before coming to SA.


Therefore his play will factor in as well obviously.

This scenario has a chance on happening. (Which I said previously)

Let me repeat, I did not say "R.J's new deal is robbery".

That's a lot of caveats for something that was supposed to be so clear. Perhaps clarifying to begin with -- adding some scope to an otherwise arbitrary statement -- may help alleviate people "misunderstanding" what you are saying.

[MaNu4Tres]

That's a lot of caveats for something was supposed to be so clear. Perhaps clarifying to begin with -- adding some scope to an otherwise arbitrary statement -- may help alleviate people "misunderstanding" what you saying.

I was responding via iphone all morning (which can get on your nerves when leaving thorough responses; because of how easily your fingers can press the wrong letter or the back button) so maybe that is why.

[Obstructed_View]

We don't know what kind of "deal" it could be, and there's no special reason to believe it was a straightforward "we will sign you back no matter what" kind of deal. I think something along the lines of: RJ agrees to opt out (big gift to the Spurs in terms of $$$) to check out the FA market, Spurs check on other possibilities, let's all meet back in a couple of weeks and see what's up, would be totally reasonable.
Sorry to inform you, but if it happened like that, then it's not a "deal" at all. That would be an example of what happens during free agency. A guy opts out, both parties look around, they might settle back on each other, they might not. That isn't at all the way many people were characterizing this, especially those that have talked like it was a foregone conclusion, or those that suggest that RJ's signing with the Spurs is proof of anything.



You mean, like the secret agreements some teams have to trade a player knowing that he will be waived, and sign him up again 30 days later. Not like the Spurs have done that in the past either, of course. Now that we've got that little "there are no secret deals" fantasy out of the way we can go back to the real world of the NBA.
There's no evidence that the Spurs have ever done anything like that with any violation of the rules, and they'd be stupid to risk draft picks over it. But again, if it happened the way you explain above, there's nothing at all wrong with it because there's no pre-arranged deal.



Not at all, because at that point and according to my estimate, the Spurs will be effectively paying him $3-4 million per year, and if you don't think RJ is worth even that then we sure should stop talking.
The Spurs will actually be paying RJ to be on the team for four more years, and they will actually be able to do nothing with his expiring contract this season. Are they paying him more in actual money as well?

We could go around in circles about the money endlessly and it wouldn't really get us anywhere. From a basketball standpoint, it could turn out to be a great keep if he figures out how to play defense or to show up on some sort of consistent basis. He's certainly a good player, and likely far better than any vets that the Spurs were going to be able to get in free agency, but we have to start hoping for him to start fitting in better considering how long he's going to be around. I'll wait until training camp and then become cautiously optimistic.


I really don't know where that comes from either. The Spurs have a history of SF not contributing significantly to raw statistics. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but I'll offer you a likely scenario: Pop knows RJ can be a good defender (fact - this was touted a lot when RJ got traded to the Spurs last year) and we know Pop wants RJ to go back to that defensive speciailst role (fact - appeared very often in Pop's interviews at the time). Now the side effect of that, as we have seen with e.g. Bowen, is that being a defensive specialist instead of a stat machine will suddenly make you ineligible for a variety of things, including: a large contract; consideration from the media; consideration from the large part of fans who think box score = basketball; consideration for achievements; etc. Regardless of the amount of money he was paid ni the short term, I can easily imagine RJ not being that hot about killing his statistical production for a team that hadn't contributed to him on the long term. With a new contract this situation could change drastically.

In my opinion, you're way overthinking this to justify the money going out the door. It's already spent, so we might as well move on. RJ was brought in to be a defensive player last year and it didn't work out very well, but hope springs eternal. Maybe he'll figure it out with his second year and it'll all work out. Smart, hustling defense and 6 points a game is better than what he did last year with 13 points a game. I'd be really happy if his nightly contributions had some bearing on the outcome of the games, and it'll take defense for that to happen.

[benefactor]

You are still misunderstanding me.

It is not just the deal.

With the Spurs refinancing R.J while his value is at an all-time low, the only way this new contract (6-8 mil per for 3/4 years) could become a "steal" is if he can live up to his proven potential that he's proved for many years before coming to SA.


Therefore his play will factor in as well obviously.

This scenario has a chance on happening. (Which I said previously)

Let me repeat, I did not say "R.J's new deal is robbery".
Well so much for that theory. :downspin:

[Spurtacus]

I expect RJ will fit better with the Spurs in his second season. Assuming we didn't give him 10 mil a year then I like the re-signing.

[Duncan2177]

Sorry to inform you, but if it happened like that, then it's not a "deal" at all. That would be an example of what happens during free agency. A guy opts out, both parties look around, they might settle back on each other, they might not. That isn't at all the way many people were characterizing this, especially those that have talked like it was a foregone conclusion, or those that suggest that RJ's signing with the Spurs is proof of anything.



There's no evidence that the Spurs have ever done anything like that with any violation of the rules, and they'd be stupid to risk draft picks over it. But again, if it happened the way you explain above, there's nothing at all wrong with it because there's no pre-arranged deal.



The Spurs will actually be paying RJ to be on the team for four more years, and they will actually be able to do nothing with his expiring contract this season. Are they paying him more in actual money as well?

We could go around in circles about the money endlessly and it wouldn't really get us anywhere. From a basketball standpoint, it could turn out to be a great keep if he figures out how to play defense or to show up on some sort of consistent basis. He's certainly a good player, and likely far better than any vets that the Spurs were going to be able to get in free agency, but we have to start hoping for him to start fitting in better considering how long he's going to be around. I'll wait until training camp and then become cautiously optimistic.



In my opinion, you're way overthinking this to justify the money going out the door. It's already spent, so we might as well move on. RJ was brought in to be a defensive player last year and it didn't work out very well, but hope springs eternal. Maybe he'll figure it out with his second year and it'll all work out. Smart, hustling defense and 6 points a game is better than what he did last year with 13 points a game. I'd be really happy if his nightly contributions had some bearing on the outcome of the games, and it'll take defense for that to happen.

Since when has Jefferson been known to be a defensive player? Apparently the spurs FO office didn't do there homework on Jefferson before they traded for him if it was defense they wanted they should of traded for Ron Artest last summer.

[Obstructed_View]

Since when has Jefferson been known to be a defensive player? Apparently the spurs FO office didn't do there homework on Jefferson before they traded for him if it was defense they wanted they should of traded for Ron Artest last summer.

You should address this question to the person to whom I was responding. I simply said that I'd be thrilled if his predicitons turn out to be true and Jefferson suddenly turns into a lock down defender.