RJ watch is over. He'll re-sign tomorrow

[ace3g]

JMcDonald_SAEN

The RJ watch is over. He'll re-sign tomorrow with Spurs, according to our very own Mike Monroe: http://bit.ly/c0W5GQ

[ElNono]

I'm bracing myself to hear what the length of the contract is...

[lefty]

Dick !!!!!!







Terms?

[bigdog]

I'm guessing 4 years at the most.

[lefty]

I'm guessing 3 years

[tdunk21]

we still need our backup SF.....spurs are very slow at getting things done....

[bobby4germany]

4 years with the last being a team option!?

[chazley]

It's gonna be 3 years 20 million methinks.

[chazley]

4 years with the last being a team option!?

This is likely.

[baseline bum]

I hope it's no more than 3 years, $19 million guaranteed, with a 4th year unguaranteed like Ferry, McDyess, Dampier, etc.

[EricB]

Last I heard was 3 years 4th year mutual option.

[timvp]

The details will be really interesting. Going into the process, RJ was hoping for something like 4 years and $40 million. With the way the market shaped out, his actual value was much lower. Where the two sides met in the middle-ground will be fascinating. We should have a good idea if there was an agreement already in place before RJ opted out.

If RJ got close to that $40 million over four years, we can confidently say there was an agreement already in place. If the contract is closer to something like three years and $25 million, then there obviously wasn't any understanding between the two sides prior to the opt out.

I highly doubt it'll be lower than around three years and $25 million because RJ could have just kept waiting. The supply and demand was finally getting in his favor and the chances of him getting a notable offer in the next few weeks were increasing. Then again, RJ obviously isn't the most savvy business man of all time so who knows.

[baseline bum]

Last I heard was 3 years 4th year mutual option.

What do you mean mutual option? As in both sides have to agree for the 4th year to be picked up? What's the point of that?

[MoSpur]

Finally!!!! Took them long enough. I guess RJ was seeing if a better offer would come along. I'm very curious to see what the Spurs are giving him.

[Shastafarian]

What do you mean mutual option?

Yeah, what the hell is a "mutual option"?


Is this coming from your "sources"?

[MoSpur]

Last I heard was 3 years 4th year mutual option.

According to your sources?????

[Hooks]

RASUUUUAAALLLL!!!

Spurs better make sign him as a back up SF if RJ re-signs.

[oligarchy]

There are three types of options:

* Team Options give the team the right to invoke the option. There can be only one option year (except in the case of rookie scale contracts).
* Player Options give the player the right to invoke the option. There can be only one option year.
* Player Early Termination Options (ETOs) give the player the right to terminate the contract early. An ETO can't occur prior to the end of fourth season of the contract (which implies that the contract must be for at least five seasons).

A contract may not contain more than one option in the same season (for example, the last season cannot contain both a player option and a team option). A six year contract may contain an ETO following the fourth season and an option (either player or team) following the fifth season.

[DMX7]

I didn't even there was such thing as "mutual option".

[Shastafarian]

I didn't even there was such thing as "mutual option".

I don't think there is.

[scottspurs]

Like the spurs did with splitter I bet they shock the world and resign Rj for 2 years 13 million and RC plays bandit once again.

[chazley]

The details will be really interesting. Going into the process, RJ was hoping for something like 4 years and $40 million. With the way the market shaped out, his actual value was much lower. Where the two sides met in the middle-ground will be fascinating. We should have a good idea if there was an agreement already in place before RJ opted out.

If RJ got close to that $40 million over four years, we can confidently say there was an agreement already in place. If the contract is closer to something like three years and $25 million, then there obviously wasn't any understanding between the two sides prior to the opt out.

I highly doubt it'll be lower than around three years and $25 million because RJ could have just kept waiting. The supply and demand was finally getting in his favor and the chances of him getting a notable offer in the next few weeks were increasing. Then again, RJ obviously isn't the most savvy business man of all time so who knows.

I'd be shocked if he got 3 years 25 mil. That's way more than anyone else would've given him. I think RJ f'd up big time and is going to feel it in his pockets over the length of the contract.

Either way, this is great news for the Spurs.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The details will be really interesting. Going into the process, RJ was hoping for something like 4 years and $40 million. With the way the market shaped out, his actual value was much lower. Where the two sides met in the middle-ground will be fascinating. We should have a good idea if there was an agreement already in place before RJ opted out.

If RJ got close to that $40 million over four years, we can confidently say there was an agreement already in place. If the contract is closer to something like three years and $25 million, then there obviously wasn't any understanding between the two sides prior to the opt out.

I highly doubt it'll be lower than around three years and $25 million because RJ could have just kept waiting. The supply and demand was finally getting in his favor and the chances of him getting a notable offer in the next few weeks were increasing. Then again, RJ obviously isn't the most savvy business man of all time so who knows.

Should RJ get a deal closer to 40M for 4 years (brutal) do you think that's why Tiago accepted to sign at a "discounted" rate? Perhaps the Spurs told him they couldn't offer him much more because of RJ?

[Cane]

Imo there had to have been at least some kind of deal waiting for him from the Spurs since it helps them out in the short term and the Spurs don't have any realistic options other than RJ.

[scottspurs]

Imo there had to have been at least some kind of deal understanding waiting for him from the Spurs since it helps them out in the short term and the Spurs don't have any realistic options other than RJ.

Why the long wait then?

[chazley]

Should RJ get a deal closer to 40M for 4 years (brutal) do you think that's why Tiago accepted to sign at a "discounted" rate? Perhaps the Spurs told him they couldn't offer him much more because of RJ?

If Splitter's agent is that dumb, wow. Then again, Splitter didn't get the full MLE like he could've.

Honestly whoever it is who negotiates contracts for the Spurs must be one of the best of all time. Is it R.C.?

[CubanMustGo]

I'd be shocked if he got 3 years 25 mil. That's way more than anyone else would've given him. I think RJ f'd up big time and is going to feel it in his pockets over the length of the contract.

Either way, this is great news for the Spurs.

It's a fine line between doing what's right for the team financially and the psyche of the dude who you're re-signing. Yeah, the Spurs can totally low ball him, but then is he going to really play hard next year?

He effed up, no doubt, and the Spurs need to take advantage, but they probably can't take FULL advantage if they want RJ to improve next season.

[DesignatedT]

id be fine with 4 years/30 mil with some of the money not being guaranteed and an option on the 4th year.

[Vic Petro]

Mutual options exist in baseball. To my knowledge they do not exist in the NBA.

[Cane]

Why the long wait then?

RJ probably wanted to fish for better deals elsewhere, seems to be an East coast kind of guy imo and teams were loaded with money and weren't afraid to overspend on some players.

RJ opting out helps the Spurs in the short term and he's the only realistic option as a starting SF so imo there had to have been some kind of deal for RJ to fall back on.

[Sobe_Kucks]

THIS JUST IN....

ESPN has stated that RJ will be holding an hour longer presser in prime time announcing his decision to re-sign with the Spurs.:downspin:

[EricB]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.

[Shastafarian]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.

Same buddy who said there was a mutual option? :rollin

[MoSpur]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.


Here we go.

:blah

[DesignatedT]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.

Would that be timvp? because he was pretty much saying the same thing...

[chazley]

It's a fine line between doing what's right for the team financially and the psyche of the dude who you're re-signing. Yeah, the Spurs can totally low ball him, but then is he going to really play hard next year?

He effed up, no doubt, and the Spurs need to take advantage, but they probably can't take FULL advantage if they want RJ to improve next season.

That is an interesting take that I did not consider. At the same time, I just can't see the Spurs going into or close to the tax just to make sure RJ's psyche is right. I find it hard to believe Pop would want RJ back and be working out with him personally if he was that mentally fragile. At the same time, I can see the point you're making, and something like 3 yrs/23 mil guaranteed sounds about right.

Also wouldn't be shocked to see a deal VERY similar to AMD's contract, with the last year being only half-guaranteed. If that is the case, we could see a slightly higher salary for RJ in the first 2-3 years.

[angelbelow]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.

If true, that is awesome. Especially if he can improve (like hes expected to) this season.

[Buddy Holly]

Can't 100% confirm either but my buddy says RJ will contend for MVP next season. Again, can't 100% confirm it though.

[crc21209]

Good news. :tu Alot people around here hated on RJ but truth was that without him, we'd be totally screwed at the SF position...

[Buddy Holly]

Also, my buddy just said if you stick your pee pee in a plugged in light socket, you will unleash a genie who will grant you three magical wishes. But I can't 100% confirm this either.

Nor can I 100% confirm that Megan Fox will give you a HJ if you say she has pretty ears.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

according to my sources the B in erib stands for BITCH, fuck i dont want rj back hariston better start jefferson is better off the bench

[chazley]

according to my sources the B in erib stands for BITCH, fuck i dont want rj back hariston better start jefferson is better off the bench

You're entitled to your opinion.

But it is wrong.

In my opinion.

[angelbelow]

Can't 100% confirm either but my buddy says RJ will contend for MVP next season. Again, can't 100% confirm it though.


Also, my buddy just said if you stick your pee pee in a plugged in light socket, you will unleash a genie who will grant you three magical wishes. But I can't 100% confirm this either.

Nor can I 100% confirm that Megan Fox will give you a HJ if you say she has pretty ears.


according to my sources the B in erib stands for BITCH, fuck i dont want rj back hariston better start jefferson is better off the bench

Stop wasting the thread with this bullshit.

Anyways I agree that bring RJ back is a good move.. not great but the best we can do at this point. I just hope that hes motivated to win. Last season, he should have been very motivated to come in here and try to contribute to a contending team. But he was flat and sometimes did not give the effort that he was expected to.

Now, i think its possible that hes demoralized. He opt-ed out for more money and didnt get it, so the question is.. will he have the drive to continue to improve after getting "shafted (in his eyes)" by the free agency? Hopefully he remains a professional and continues to work hard and contribute but I can see emotions getting in the way.

[will_spurs]

Let's starting taking guesses/bets. I'd say it's a 4-year, $32 million deal, with player option on 4th year and 4th year only half-guanranteed by the team (to help as a trade chip later on, in the same vein as Dice's contract).

If it's at all possible to frontload the contract so that it looks like 10-9-8-5 I think the Spurs would do that too.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

At the local hairdresser, my mom said she heard some people say RJ will get 3 years 28 Million.

But she's not 100% sure.

[MoSpur]

I don't hate RJ. Just think he really disappointed last season. He wasn't worth what he got paid last season that's for sure. He wasn't close to consistent. His 3pt shooting was horrible and his defense was pretty lame. He needs to improve on all that.

He started to play better when he was coming off the bench w/Manu so I would like to see that again. Pop played with the rotation way too many times last season. I know injuries had something to do with that, but last year's rotation experiments were really bad. Hopefully this year Pop has something set around December or January. Again the players have to be healthy though.

[FromWayDowntown]

17 years/$102MM.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

lmao buddy holly clownin on ericBITCH, my sources just told me ericb hasn't had pussy since pussy had him

[DesignatedT]

RJ is by far the best choice for us at the moment. Glad hes coming back.

[ohmwrecker]

according to my sources the B in erib stands for BITCH, fuck i dont want rj back hariston better start jefferson is better off the bench

It's funny when somebody says something stupid in response to something stupid that someone else said.

[Sobe_Kucks]

17 years/$102MM.

David Kahn negotiated the contract for the Spurs?

[oligarchy]

Let's starting taking guesses/bets. I'd say it's a 4-year, $32 million deal, with player option on 4th year and 4th year only half-guanranteed by the team (to help as a trade chip later on, in the same vein as Dice's contract).

If it's at all possible to frontload the contract so that it looks like 10-9-8-5 I think the Spurs would do that too.

Explain how the player option works with a partially guaranteed contract...

[coyotes_geek]

rj is by far the best choice for us at the moment. Glad hes coming back.

+1

[ChumpDumper]

That $25 million seems like a decent deal if true.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

RJ is by far the best choice for us at the moment. Glad hes coming back.
really someone who cant shoot or play d is our best option hell no i rather have devin brown back

[ohmwrecker]

really someone who cant shoot or play d is our best option hell no i rather have devin brown back

And the hits just keep on coming . . .

[FromWayDowntown]

David Kahn negotiated the contract for the Spurs?

Lou Lamoriello, actually.

[Taking it to the Hole]

I wonder if there is going to be a "no trade" clause in this contract? I can see RJ desiring a long term deal with the possibility of more money over a longer period if he feels he doesn't have to worry about being traded.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Explain how the player option works with a partially guaranteed contract...


You can't...probably means his guess is wrong...

[Bruno]

I'm not a fan of Spurs re-signing to long term contracts questionable players like Bonner and RJ.

Saying that, I'm really waiting to see financial details of their deals.

[My Fault]

really someone who cant shoot or play d is our best option hell no i rather have devin brown back

Did you really watch any games last year? The more you post the more it seems you don't actually watch basketball. Post less, read more.

[coyotes_geek]

I wonder if there is going to be a "no trade" clause in this contract? I can see RJ desiring a long term deal with the possibility of more money over a longer period if he feels he doesn't have to worry about being traded.

RJ can get what is called a trade kicker which would give him more money if he got traded, but he can't get a no-trade clause.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

yea i watched every game and i like how when rj is wide open he misses shots mutherfucker cant shoot fucking let hariston or neal take his spot i dont give a fuck just dont start jefferson

[ivanfromwestwood]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.
if this is true i think it would almost be like 15/5/5. i think thats what he would have earned in the next three years anyway if he never opted out is around 25 million.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm not a fan of Spurs re-signing to long term contracts questionable players like Bonner and RJ.

Saying that, I'm really waiting to see financial details of their deals.

Did you think the Bonner deal was a decent contract? Or did the Spurs overpay?

[ElNono]

i'm not a fan of spurs re-signing to long term contracts questionable players like bonner and rj.

Saying that, i'm really waiting to see financial details of their deals.

+1

[ElNono]

Did you think the Bonner deal was a decent contract? Or did the Spurs overpay?

I dont think official contract details are available yet.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Oh gotcha

[coyotes_geek]

Regarding the "mutual option", technically there's no such thing. But as far as I know there's nothing that says you can't give RJ a player option on the last year of his deal and have that last year be unguaranteed. That would pretty much accomplish the same thing as a "mutual option".

[Bruno]

Did you think the Bonner deal was a decent contract? Or did the Spurs overpay?

Big men have been way overpaid this year. For example, Drew Gooden get the full MLE ($33.4M/5 years). Bonner's contract should be between $10M and $14M, Spurs haven't overpaid him compared to his market value.

However, I didn't want Spurs to re-sign Bonner. With Duncan, Dice, Blair and Splitter, spending a lot of money on another big man is a mistake. It's even more a mistake when this player is a choker.

[ohmwrecker]

yea i watched every game and i like how when rj is wide open he misses shots mutherfucker cant shoot fucking let hariston or neal take his spot i dont give a fuck just dont start jefferson

Right, because Hairston is an awesome jump shooter . . . and Neal is a summer league superstar. Brilliant.

[Blackjack]

http://grapethinking.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/champagne-cork-popping-photographic-print-c11967141.jpeg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_00IVfPHija0/SnsWNVnlvGI/AAAAAAAAC_s/Ydx04kqkXII/s400/baby+seal+hero.jpg


Confliction . . .

[SpursTillTheEnd]

Right, because Hairston is an awesome jump shooter . . . and Neal is a summer league superstar. Brilliant.
nigga you just plain stupid jefferson fucking sucks i bet hariston could hit those shots fucker go nut ride rj and eric b

[ggoose25]

so will we get another SF or just stick with small ball and three guards around two bigs?

[Blackjack]

nigga you just plain stupid jefferson fucking sucks i bet hariston could hit those shots fucker go nut ride rj and eric b

In a couple months I'll be bilingual: English and Throwed. :tu

[murpjf88]

Also, my buddy just said if you stick your pee pee in a plugged in light socket, you will unleash a genie who will grant you three magical wishes. But I can't 100% confirm this either.


Something tells me your buddy is your pee pee.

[ohmwrecker]

nigga you just plain stupid jefferson fucking sucks i bet hariston could hit those shots fucker go nut ride rj and eric b

If you made any sense at all, I would be stupid. What's it like to not remember to breathe?

[tp2021]

Something tells me your buddy is your pee pee.

or the slutty light socket

[coyotes_geek]

so will we get another SF or just stick with small ball and three guards around two bigs?

The number of worthy SF candidates is down to it's last couple of guys. It would be nice if the Spurs could somehow snag Rasual Butler, but after that the Spurs might as well just hope that Hairston or Gee, or some other yet to be identified d-leaguer, can provide some minutes at SF. Or, just play 3 guards when RJ's not on the court.

[yavozerb]

Hairston right now will be the back up sf..

[galvatron3000]

I'm not a fan of Spurs re-signing to long term contracts questionable players like Bonner and RJ.

Saying that, I'm really waiting to see financial details of their deals.

amen

[Blackjack]

Richard Jefferson to re-sign with Spurs (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/richard-jefferson-to-re-sign-with-spurs.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
By John Krolik

One of the most bizarre free agent stories of the summer has come to an end. According to Mike Monroe of the San Antonio Express-News, free agent forward Richard Jefferson will sign a long-term deal with the Spurs on Wednesday.

The 30-year old Jefferson was one of the most disappointing new arrivals of last season. The Spurs had high hopes after they acquired the former Net for Bruce Bowen, Kurt Thomas, and Fabricio Oberto. Jefferson failed to live up to those expectations, averaging only 12.3 points and 2.0 assists per game while shooting 31.6% from beyond the arc.

Given Jefferson's relatively poor play in the 09-10 season, few expected him to opt out of the final year of his contract and leave a guaranteed $15.2 million on the table, but that's exactly what he did. Jefferson and his agent explained that they do not want to test the free-agency waters in the summer of 2011, when a lockout may very well occur and a less player-friendly CBA will be passed.

Jefferson's long-term deal is good news for the Spurs, who will get to pay Jefferson significantly less next season that they would have originally and stay under the luxury tax threshold. Meanwhile, Jefferson gets to stay with San Antonio while gaining some long-term financial security. The bad news here is that with more and more players and their agents seeking to avoid 2011 free agency at all costs, it seems increasingly likely that next year's CBA negotiations will be extremely ugly.

[coyotes_geek]

Hairston right now will be the back up sf..

Disagree. There's unfinished business between Hairston and Gee that won't get resolved until training camp. Given the money that Gee is guaranteed, and the fact that Hairston isn't guaranteed any, it's just as likely that Hairston gets cut in training camp as it is that he's the backup SF on opening night.

Hairston, Gee and maybe even Temple are probably going to be playing the revolving door game between San Antonio and Austin throughout the course of the season.

[Sobe_Kucks]

Big men have been way overpaid this year. For example, Drew Gooden get the full MLE ($33.4M/5 years). Bonner's contract should be between $10M and $14M, Spurs haven't overpaid him compared to his market value.

However, I didn't want Spurs to re-sign Bonner. With Duncan, Dice, Blair and Splitter, spending a lot of money on another big man is a mistake. It's even more a mistake when this player is a choker.


Totally agree, Darko 16MM gauranteed over 4 yrs... So yeah Bonner isn't overpaid given the current market.

Just stating the obvious here... I did't want Bonner resigned either but he is still vital in the whole stretch floor concept even though his game resembles very little of Robert Horry's. We need 3 pt shooting/spacing, we've seen just how tough it is to find 3 pt shooters via free agency (losing out on Bell and Jones). He's a 40% shooter that we have Bird Rights to. Sucked but we're kinda stuck with him. He's the only 3 pt shooter we could have offered that kind of money to and still be able to pay Tiago (yes stating the obvious).

Same thing with Jefferson, I kinda threw up a little hearing he resigning, but what other SF can we get out there with what's left of the MLE and LLE? He was the best we could get. At least it helps the Spurs books out (or should I say I hope it helps the books out) and that can't be a bad thing for the future. Hopefully some of the young talent blossoms and RJ has a better season. Could he have a worse one??? Very curious about RJ's new contract details.

[yavozerb]

Disagree. There's unfinished business between Hairston and Gee that won't get resolved until training camp. Given the money that Gee is guaranteed, and the fact that Hairston isn't guaranteed any, it's just as likely that Hairston gets cut in training camp as it is that he's the backup SF on opening night.

I once thought only 1 of the 2 would make the roster. But with Gee still having 1 more season to play with the toros I believe you will see both players get some PT at sf in the NBA this season. Hairston has more experience in the system and I believe he will get 1st dibs at the sf back up role. They both would only make around 750K for the coming season so there really should not be any financial reason to choose between the 2.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

Richard Jefferson to re-sign with Spurs (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/richard-jefferson-to-re-sign-with-spurs.php?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
By John Krolik

According to Mike Monroe of the San Antonio Express-News, free agent forward Richard Jefferson will sign a long-term deal with the Spurs on Wednesday.


aw hell naw i stopped reading after that man fuck this im going to go smoke fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

[LakerHater]

Jefferson will re-sign Wednesday with Spurs


Mike Monroe (http://www.mysanantonio.com/email_us?contentID=98860444)- Express-News
Web Posted: 07/20/2010 3:23 CDT

Free agent forward Richard Jefferson is en route to San Antonio this afternoon, where he is set to sign a long-term contract with the Spurs on Wednesday. Details of the new deal are not yet available, but his salary next season will be well below the $15.2 million he would have been guaranteed had he not opted out of the final season of his contract with the Spurs on June 30.
The 6-foot-7 small forward, who turned 30 on June 21, surprised many when he chose to opt out. His agent, Todd Eley, explained at the time that Jefferson preferred long-term security over the uncertainty of becoming a free agent next summer, when the NBA’s collective bargaining agreement is slated to expire.
Projecting losses for the league in the hundreds of millions of dollars, the NBA made it clear it will seek significant concessions from the players’ union in the next agreement.
Eley has stressed that Jefferson’s decision did not mean he wanted to change teams, saying Jefferson preferred to remain in San Antonio if the club would give him a deal that provided the long-term security he sought.
Acquired last summer from the Milwaukee Bucks, in a trade that send veterans Bruce Bowen, Fabricio Oberto and Kurt Thomas to other teams, Jefferson struggled to gain traction in his first season with the Spurs. Still, his average of 12.3 points per game represented the best offensive season for a Spurs small forward since Sean Elliott retired.
Depending on the terms of Jefferson’s new deal with the Spurs, his decision to walk away from the $15.2 million he had been guaranteed for next season is likely to drop the Spurs under the projected luxury tax threshold, saving Peter Holt and his ownership group several million dollars.

[20beastie45]

At least we have a SF

[Blackjack]

aw hell naw i stopped reading after that man fuck this im going to go smoke fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

Let me give it a go:


This is rather unfortunate. I couldn't even bring myself to read the rest of the piece. I'm just going to try and forget this most unfortunate event by indulging myself with some marijuana smoking.

It's a rough translation, but I'm getting there; might be bilingual quicker than the 2-month time period I suggested earlier.

[oligarchy]

crack not marijuana.. you're getting there, though

[tp2021]

I think he's smoking crack Blackjack

[tp2021]

crack not marijuana.. you're getting there, though

Damn you

[Blackjack]

It's a tricky language with a lot of multiple meanings . . .

[coyotes_geek]

I once thought only 1 of the 2 would make the roster. But with Gee still having 1 more season to play with the toros I believe you will see both players get some PT at sf in the NBA this season. Hairston has more experience in the system and I believe he will get 1st dibs at the sf back up role. They both would only make around 750K for the coming season so there really should not be any financial reason to choose between the 2.

Hairston can still play for the Toros, he just can't be on an NBA contract at the time.

We'll need to see the numbers on RJ & Bonner's deals, plus any other signings, before knowing whether or not there's a strong financial motiviation. Even then, I think Hairston has to noticeably distinguish himself from Gee in order to stick. And he very well could. But if he doesn't, I think it's probable that the Spurs will cut him and hang on to Gee just long enough to work off his guarantees. Then they'll probably cut him too and just carry a 13 man roster until playoff time gets close. Then they can pick their favorite and go from there.

Maybe the Spurs really do see something more in Gee, or Hairston, or both. But for the most part 6-5 to 6-7 d-league swingmen are a dime a dozen. If that's how they see it, there's really no point to carrying them for the entire season.

[cd98]

If Hairston was better than RJ, then he would have gotten some playing time over RJ by midseason or sometime shortly thereafter.

Hairston has some limited skills that justify playing him maybe 10 minutes a game every 8 to 10 games. Otherwise, he is best suited for cheering for those in the regular rotation.

However, I would not object to seeing him play in the 4th quarter if we are either ahead or behind by 20+ points.

[ohmwrecker]

It's a tricky language with a lot of multiple meanings . . .

Which language is trickier, Ducks or Throwed?

[SenorSpur]

After watching his career, I'm surprised the Spurs were fooled into thinking that RJ could've possibly thrived in a half-court, pick-n-roll-type offense. Especially since he's been primarily an open-court player, whose offense was predicated from being on the receiving end of passes from a setup PG, which the Spurs obviously do not have.

On the other end, the Spurs really had no business, at all, thinking RJ could be even a remotely average defender. Again, there was just no history to suggest he had those instincts or ability.

Admittedly I was as excited as anyone when the Spurs signed him. He's not a bad player, he's just a bad fit for this team. I'm really surprised the Spurs didn't or couldn't forsee this.

All that said, and considering the fact that RJ was really the only available option left for them, they had no other choice but to resign him. I hope he'll surprise us all, but I really don't see how he'll be a better fit this year than last. Hopefully, he'll at least play with more confidence and aggressiveness on a consistent basis next season. And hit that corner 3 with some proficency.

Now with this done, perhaps the Spurs can continue searching the free-agent bin for whatever SF scraps may be left over - which aint much.

[DesignatedT]

Which language is trickier, Ducks or Throwed?

:lol. They're both pretty tough. but I'd have to go with Throwed on that one.

[benefactor]

Hairston can still play for the Toros, he just can't be on an NBA contract at the time.


I don't think this is true...but I could be wrong. I was under the impression that once a player spent two seasons in the DLeague they were no longer eligible to play there, regardless of thier contractual status.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think this is true...but I could be wrong. I was under the impression that once a player spent two seasons in the DLeague they were no longer eligible to play there, regardless of thier contractual status.He can play there if he isn't a Spur.

Dwayne Jones was in the NBA four years before joining the D-League.

[ohmwrecker]

I'm starting to think that the reason the Spurs did not need to see Hairston in summer league is because they've already decided not to guarantee his contract.

[benefactor]

As far as RJ goes, I'm pretty indifferent and basically have no expectations of him. From the time he opted out I figured he would probably re-sign as there was no one else who would want him and re-signing him saves the Spurs money right now, though it will cost them down the line.

Whatever he does good I will take as gravy...and I'll just let the bad roll off my shoulders because I expect the bad anyway.

[benefactor]

He can play there if he isn't a Spur.

Dwayne Jones was in the NBA four years before joining the D-League.
Thanks for the clarification. :tu

[FuzzyLumpkins]

After watching his career, I'm surprised the Spurs were fooled into thinking that RJ could've possibly thrived in a half-court, pick-n-roll-type offense. Especially since he's been primarily an open-court player, whose offense was predicated from being on the receiving end of passes from a setup PG, which the Spurs obviously do not have.

On the other end, the Spurs really had no business, at all, thinking RJ could be even a remotely average defender. Again, there was just no history to suggest he had those instincts or ability.

Admittedly I was as excited as anyone when the Spurs signed him. He's not a bad player, he's just a bad fit for this team. I'm really surprised the Spurs didn't or couldn't forsee this.

All that said, and considering the fact that RJ was really the only available option left for them, they had no other choice but to resign him. I hope he'll surprise us all, but I really don't see how he'll be a better fit this year than last. Hopefully, he'll at least play with more confidence and aggressiveness on a consistent basis next season. And hit that corner 3 with some proficency.

Now with this done, perhaps the Spurs can continue searching the free-agent bin for whatever SF scraps may be left over - which aint much.

If he can make threes at near 38% from the wing and the corner as well as not miss rotations he will fit in just fine. Any rebounding, fast breaks, penetration plays and the like will be gravy.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't think this is true...but I could be wrong. I was under the impression that once a player spent two seasons in the DLeague they were no longer eligible to play there, regardless of thier contractual status.

That's just for guys on NBA contracts. NBA teams can't assign players with 2 years of NBA experience to the d-league, but there's no restriction for guys who are free agents. I'm pretty sure Demarr Johnson was playing in the d-league when the Spurs gave him a shot and he had been in the NBA for quite a few years before then.

[DPG21920]

Gross.

[cd98]

Jefferson hit a game winning jumper against the Thunder. How long did the appreciation last?

RMJ's gaming winning shot against the Suns made most people forget how he ended his first season with the Spurs. Most people didn't want to run him out of town until season 2.

[Sobe_Kucks]

Now with this done, perhaps the Spurs can continue searching the free-agent bin for whatever SF scraps may be left over - which aint much.

Butler or Barnes? We don't have the 5MM Barnes was looking for. Kapono is rumored to being shopped by the 6ers, no way we could afford him unless it's a trade. Pickins is slim...

[Dex]

Amazing the difference a year makes, judging from the reaction of the Spurs signing RJ this summer, as compared to signing him last summer.

I have higher hopes for Jefferson in his second year.

[MaNu4Tres]

It was obvious he was the most realistic and best option from the get go.

Glad to see him back at around half of last year's price. :tu

[Spurs Brazil]

JMcDonald_SAEN
RT @PeterBurnsRadio: @JMcDonald_SAEN Basically the #Spurs refinanced Richard Jefferson.

[ohmwrecker]

No new info . . . hypothesizing. And, a cool article on The Beast.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/S (http://www.rotowire.com/Richard-Jefferson-googid129741-spnba.htm)tory.asp?story_id=16875 (http://www.rotowire.com/Richard-Jefferson-googid129741-spnba.htm)

[DPG21920]

Come on 3 years with the last year partially guaranteed. No whammies, no whammies, STOP!

[MaNu4Tres]

You understand that a 3 year deal worth 7-9 million per year (essentially same as 4 yr deal with team option;partial guarantee for the 4th year) will be a very tradeable asset in 2 years (if he doesn't live up to the Spurs' standards), going into the contract's expiring season (going into the 3rd year).

Not only do the Spurs add the best option they had realistically at small forward, but Jefferson's contract will give the Spurs front office extra versatility and flexibility to make moves down the line if needed (If R.J doesn't live up to reasonable expectations). Spurs having a triad of high salary figures (Tim, Manu, Tony) and having a bunch of lower salary figures to fill out the roster would have left the Spurs vulnerable and essentially hand-cuffed on the trade-front if a trade is needed down the line. Jefferson's assumed contract 4/30 or 3/27 is a valuable and reasonable salary figure not only for the Spurs (compared to what they paid him last year) but also reasonable to the league as a whole for trading purposes (if it comes down to that).

[cd98]

Flame out. Jefferson?

[DPG21920]

You understand that a 3 year deal worth 7-9 million per year (essentially same as 4 yr deal with team option;partial guarantee for the 4th year) will be a very tradeable asset in 2 years (if he doesn't live up to the Spurs' standards), going into the contract's expiring season (going into the 3rd year).

Expiring contracts have been overrated somewhat. No one wanted RJ at a discount via FA and I don't want the Spurs to be in a position with a lottery team and RJ where they have to move him.


Not only do the Spurs add the best option they had realistically at small forward, but Jefferson's contract will give the Spurs front office extra versatility and flexibility to make moves down the line if needed (If R.J flames out). Spurs having a triad of high salary figures (Tim, Manu, Tony) and having a bunch of lower salary figures to fill out the roster would have left the Spurs vulnerable and essentially hand-cuffed on the trade-front if a trade is needed down the line. Jefferson's assumed contract 4/30 or 3/27 is a valuable and reasonable salary figure not only for the Spurs (compared to what they paid him last year) but also reasonable to the league as a whole for trading purposes (if it comes down to that).

RJ at 2 years or 3 years with the last partially guaranteed does the same thing with less risk. There is no market for RJ and the Spurs need not outbid themselves for his dumb mistake. Unless there was a prior agreement.

[ElNono]

Expiring contracts have been overrated somewhat. No one wanted RJ at a discount via FA and I don't want the Spurs to be in a position with a lottery team and RJ where they have to move him.

RJ at 2 years or 3 years with the last partially guaranteed does the same thing with less risk. There is no market for RJ and the Spurs need not outbid themselves for his dumb mistake. Unless there was a prior agreement.

+10

A partial guarantee on his last year is actually a better trade bait than guaranteed money. And yeah, agree expirings are overrated.

[cd98]

Expiring contracts overrated? Didn't you see what the Mavs were able to get with Dampier?

[DPG21920]

:lol Exactly. The best expiring contract in the NBA got Tyson Chandler.

[ElNono]

Actually Damp was both expiring and partially guaranteed, IIRC.

[quentin_compson]

Hm, maybe I don't remember this right, but didn't the Mavs get Marion for Stack's expiring?

[Solid D]

By this time tomorrow, I'm sure either Ludden, Woj or Sham will have gotten with Todd Eley (or RJ, or both) and secured the facts of the deal.

[MaNu4Tres]

Expiring contracts have been overrated somewhat. No one wanted RJ at a discount via FA and I don't want the Spurs to be in a position with a lottery team and RJ where they have to move him.

Teams will want and value R.J's expiring contract at around 8-9 million roughly, the summer after the 2nd year in his new deal (if he gets a 3 yr deal or 4yr deal(partial guarantee for 4th year). That is a totally different circumstance than teams with cap space (most who already had good cheap options at SF) wanting to sign R.J (the player) to a lucrative long term deal.




There is no market for RJ and the Spurs need not outbid themselves for his dumb mistake. Unless there was a prior agreement.

A three year deal or four year deal (last year partially guaranteed; essentially a 3 year deal) isn't exactly a dumb mistake. Now if they give him a 5 year deal then I'd agree with you. Three years isn't that big of an investment or risk (imo).

[ElNono]

Hm, maybe I don't remember this right, but didn't the Mavs get Marion for Stack's expiring?

That trade was actually quite convoluted, and involved 4 teams.

From here (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/214633-shawn-marion-traded-to-mavs-in-complicated-4-team-trade):


Although the league has not approved the trade, the deal is expected to include Dallas sending Stackhouse to Toronto, money to Memphis to help buyout Stackhouse’s contract, Antoine Wright and Devean George going to Toronto, Kris Humphries joining Marion in Dallas, and Orlando sending Hedo Turkoglu to the Raptors in exchange for a sizeable trade exception.

I told you it was complicated.

Dallas gets Marion and Humphries.

Toronto gets Wright, George, and Turkoglu.

Memphis gets money.

Orlando acquires a trade exception.

Mavs ended getting rid of stack expiring, George, Wright, give money to memphis to buy stack out, but pretty much undid any savings having to offer Marion a 5/$35m deal.

[ElNono]

By this time tomorrow, I'm sure either Ludden, Woj or Sham will have gotten with Todd Eley (or RJ, or both) and secured the facts of the deal.

Can't wait. If you manage to spot Bonner's contract details, please post them.
So far Sham has one thing, and there was another source with a different number. Something more official would be nice.

[DPG21920]

Actually Damp was both expiring and partially guaranteed, IIRC.

Fully non-guaranteed. 13M off the books like magic.

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol Exactly. The best expiring contract in the NBA got Tyson Chandler.

Actually the best expiring contract ( McGrady's) netted the Rockets Kevin Martin and two 1st round picks from the Knicks.

[quentin_compson]

That trade was actually quite convoluted, and involved 4 teams.

From here (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/214633-shawn-marion-traded-to-mavs-in-complicated-4-team-trade):



Mavs ended getting rid of stack expiring, George, Wright, give money to memphis to buy stack out, but pretty much undid any savings having to offer Marion a 5/$35m deal.

Ah ok, thanks for the clarification. :tu

[cd98]

Actually the best expiring contract ( McGrady's) netted the Rockets Kevin Martin and two 1st round picks from the Knicks.

Yeah, but that was the Knicks. Unfortunately the other teams have so depleted them of their assets that we can't rob them blind for Tony Parker.

[DPG21920]

Teams will want and value R.J's expiring contract at around 8-9 million roughly, the summer after the 2nd year in his new deal (if he gets a 3 yr deal or 4yr deal(partial guarantee for 4th year). That is a totally different circumstance than teams with cap space (most who already had good cheap options at SF) wanting to sign R.J (the player) to a lucrative long term deal.

Not all expiring contracts are tradeable. How do you know someone will want RJ? Not too mention, usually teams only want an expiring if they are giving up a bad contract (like Spurs getting RJ). If the Spurs are rebuilding, I can't see them taking on a bad contract. That is not what they do normally. Before RJ, there were really not very many moves like that from the Spurs.





A three year deal or four year deal (last year partially guaranteed; essentially a 3 year deal) isn't exactly a dumb mistake. Now if they give him a 5 year deal then I'd agree with you. Three years isn't that big of an investment or risk (imo).

I think a 4 year deal, even if partially guaranteed is dumb. Any thing beyond 3 years is dumb imo and the only thing I think is not completely dumb is a 3 year deal w/ the last year partially guaranteed.

[ElNono]

A three year deal or four year deal (last year partially guaranteed; essentially a 3 year deal) isn't exactly a dumb mistake. Now if they give him a 5 year deal then I'd agree with you. Three years isn't that big of an investment or risk (imo).

I don't think the numbers posted so far are a dumb deal. I just think he could have had for less than $7m-$9m. And if you're paying that much, then you would be trying to get a 3 year deal max. It's debatable, I wouldn't call the other deal dumb though. Maybe a bit expensive, but not dumb.

[DPG21920]

Actually the best expiring contract ( McGrady's) netted the Rockets Kevin Martin and two 1st round picks from the Knicks.

Kevin Martin. Not that impressive tbh. Decent though. I think Damp's was more valuable because the savings were instant.

[MaNu4Tres]

Not all expiring contracts are tradeable. How do you know someone will want RJ.

Teams will want his expiring contract for 8-9 million more so than R.J.



Not too mention, usually teams only want an expiring if they are giving up a bad contract (like Spurs getting RJ), if the Spurs are rebuilding, I can't see them taking on a bad contract.

If the Spurs are in rebuilding mode and if R.J doesn't fit in their plan going into his third year, I can see the Spurs trading R.J's expiring for 8-9 million to a team for an expiring worth 4-6 million and for a player for the future worth 2.5- 4 million. A 1 for 2 deal where Spurs still net one respectable expiring (saving the other team roughly 4-6 million the following season).

[DPG21920]

I can see it too, I just don't put as much value in it as you do I guess.

[MaNu4Tres]

I can see it too, I just don't put as much value in it as you do I guess.

I just don't think 3/27 or 4/30 million (partially guaranteed) is such of a dumb mistake as you are implying.

Worst comes to worst, R.J's respectable 7-9 million salary will be reasonably tradeable after his first 2 seasons when it becomes expiring.

[DPG21920]

I think worst comes to worst is you have RJ for 3-4 years because no one wants his expiring and/or you do not want what is being offered.

3 year is the max I give RJ under any circumstance, unless the 4th year is fully non-guaranteed or a team option.

Hopefully, it is a 3 year partially guaranteed contract.

[E-RockWill]

My 2 cents...
4 yrs./$25 million
4th year is partially guaranteed w/ a team option.

[ElNono]

My 2 cents...
4 yrs./$25 million
3rd year has a player ETO
4th year is partially guaranteed w/ a team option.

An ETO can't occur prior to the end of fourth season of the contract (which implies that the contract must be for at least five seasons) (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm)

[E-RockWill]

An ETO can't occur prior to the end of fourth season of the contract (which implies that the contract must be for at least five seasons) (http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm)

Understood & fixed. Thank you, sir.

@ least it was only 2 cents.......

[MaNu4Tres]

Other proven starting caliber small forwards no longer on rookie scale contracts

Luol Deng (4yr/51.31 mil) $11,345,000/ $12,325,000/$13,365,000/$14,275,000

Andre Iguodala(4yr/56 mil) $12,345,250/$13,531,750/$14,718,250/$15,904,750

Rashard Lewis (3yr/63.4 mil)$19,573,711/$21,136,631/$22,699,551

Hidayet Turkoglu(4yr/43 mil)$9,800,000/$10,600,000/$11,400,000/$12,000,000


Most Spurs would possible spend on R.J's new deal (Worse case scenario;imo)

Richard Jefferson (3yr/27-30 mil) or (4yr/ 30-35 mil) = Still good value

[ElNono]

Understood & fixed. Thank you, sir.

@ least it was only 2 cents.......

:toast

[ElNono]

Other proven veteran small forwards no longer on rookie scale contracts

Luol Deng (4yr/51.31 mil) $11,345,000/ $12,325,000/$13,365,000/$14,275,000

Andre Iguodala(4yr/56 mil) $12,345,250/$13,531,750/$14,718,250/$15,904,750

Rashard Lewis (3yr/63.4 mil)$19,573,711/$21,136,631/$22,699,551

Hidayet Turkoglu(4yr/43 mil)$9,800,000/$10,600,000/$11,400,000/$12,000,000


Most Spurs would possible spend on R.J's new deal (Worse case scenario;imo)

Richard Jefferson (3yr/27-30 mil) or (4yr/ 30-35 mil) = Still good value

Sure, but the Spurs having Bird Rights are not competing with any of those contracts, just against whatever RJ gets offered, if he got offered anything at all (something we're most likely never to hear about).

[DPG21920]

Exactly. With as high profiled RJ is this off season (relatively big name, surprising opt out, under the microscope...) we have not heard a peep about any team making an offer.

He might be a good value, but that does not make it a smart move.

I compare this to going to Wal*Mart to shop for food and you see a flat screen for 700 dollars that is a steal. That does not mean you buy it. :lol

[The Truth #6]

I'm reading a lot of comments that suggest the most positive aspect of this new contract is that we can trade him for expiring contracts...what's the point of even signing him then if that's the biggest advantage in signing him in the first place. Yeah, I know we're "screwed" if RJ doesn't come back to save us with another underwhelming season.

More than $6 million/year is not worth it. More than 2 years guaranteed isn't worth it either in my opinion.

[rayray2k8]

Expectations will be lower and Jefferson might actually end up playing BETTER than last year.
I'm happy that the spurs no longer have a hole at SF.

[dastrey]

I can't wait for the melt-down when he receives a 4 year $35-$40 million contract. There had to be an agreement when he opted out of a guaranteed $15 million.

[SPURSGOAT]

I can't wait for the melt-down when he receives a 4 year $35-$40 million contract. There had to be an agreement when he opted out of a guaranteed $15 million.

:pctoss

[m33p0]

I'm reading a lot of comments that suggest the most positive aspect of this new contract is that we can trade him for expiring contracts...what's the point of even signing him then if that's the biggest advantage in signing him in the first place. Yeah, I know we're "screwed" if RJ doesn't come back to save us with another underwhelming season.

More than $6 million/year is not worth it. More than 2 years guaranteed isn't worth it either in my opinion.

this is ST. someone will always be adamant about trading a player for something. it's an obsession in this board.

[toki9]

Exactly. With as high profiled RJ is this off season (relatively big name, surprising opt out, under the microscope...) we have not heard a peep about any team making an offer.

He might be a good value, but that does not make it a smart move.

I compare this to going to Wal*Mart to shop for food and you see a flat screen for 700 dollars that is a steal. That does not mean you buy it. :lol

Except that you don't have to have that flat screen...the Spurs, on the other hand, have to have a small forward--and can't really afford (or won't) much more than that $700 price tag...

[Spurs Brazil]

RJ: From overrated to underrated in one year flat
By Jeff McDonald
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2010/07/how-rj-saved-th.html

[ohmwrecker]

RJ: From overrated to underrated in one year flat
By Jeff McDonald
http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/2010/07/how-rj-saved-th.html

Should have proofread that sucker before going to press, but not a bad perspective.

[HarlemHeat37]

I was excited when the Spurs got Jefferson, but he's not underrated at all now..there's a very little chance that he's going to fit in well with the starting unit, he's no longer a player that can do that at a high level IMO..

I also hate the argument about how much Jefferson was paid..

The only reason the Spurs were able to acquire him is because he was paid so much..Jefferson's paycheck had literally nothing to do with his poor fit with the Spurs though, so I don't know why people keep talking about how a cheaper contract will make anything better from an on-court perspective..

He's still going to have the same problems fitting in..

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm reading a lot of comments that suggest the most positive aspect of this new contract is that we can trade him for expiring contracts...what's the point of even signing him then if that's the biggest advantage in signing him in the first place. Yeah, I know we're "screwed" if RJ doesn't come back to save us with another underwhelming season.


Reading comprehension bra...

That is not what was said.

[ElNono]

I was excited when the Spurs got Jefferson, but he's not underrated at all now

Completely agree.

[ohmwrecker]

I was excited when the Spurs got Jefferson, but he's not underrated at all now..there's a very little chance that he's going to fit in well with the starting unit, he's no longer a player that can do that at a high level IMO..

He is absolutely underrated now. He had the worst season of his career, not including his rookie year, last season. He struggled mightly, he was used improperly and he, mostly, did not play to his full potential. He is only 30 and has the skills to be a much better and more consistent player. He has plenty of time on his clock.


I also hate the argument about how much Jefferson was paid..

The only reason the Spurs were able to acquire him is because he was paid so much..Jefferson's paycheck had literally nothing to do with his poor fit with the Spurs though, so I don't know why people keep talking about how a cheaper contract will make anything better from an on-court perspective..He's still going to have the same problems fitting in..

Jefferson's contract was, easily, one of the top 3 subjects complained about on this board last season. There is no more evidence to support the claim that Jefferson cannot improve than there is to say that he can. You can just as easily argue that Jefferson's struggles were attributed to having a slump year that he can recover from than you can believe that he is just "a bad fit and always will be". It's all speculation and postulation and it doesn't have any bearing on reality.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Fuck. I think this is a bad move unless he signed for 6mil per or less. It keeps us in a damned holding pattern at SF with a guy who didn't help us much. Sure, we can hope he "grows in the system" in his second year, but now we're essentially saddled with the guy for at least 2 years (that will be a tough contract to move if it's 8-10mil per).

Very unhappy this guy is back. I'd have rathered a scrub like Simmons and play the youth - at least then we could easily upgrade the SF position through draft/exception next year.

This is a very un-Spurs move for mine - overpaying an average, aging player who doesn't fit the team at all. Ugh.

[ElNono]

The only way I see RJ actually progressing leaps and bounds in the current system is reinventing himself as a spot up shooter. Could happen.
Defensively he's limited due to his mobility, but if he at least can provide some help defense, he can leap enough to be a decent shot blocker on occasion.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Some people on RealGM say it's been rumored to be 30M for 5 years

[cd98]

Jefferson will be better next season. While he is not a top 20 talent, he's not a bottom 20. He's better than Korver and a number of players that got paid this summer. He'll be motivated and both he and the Spurs will make the necessary adjustments to maximize his game.

He had many bright moments that were overshadowed by his contract.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Some people on RealGM say it's been rumored to be 30M for 5 years

That's not too bad if the 5th year is a team option. RJ can be moved for 6mil per.

[liltex2010]

Jefferson will be better next season. While he is not a top 20 talent, he's not a bottom 20. He's better than Korver and a number of players that got paid this summer. He'll be motivated and both he and the Spurs will make the necessary adjustments to maximize his game.

He had many bright moments that were overshadowed by his contract.

Yes he did, too many people expected way too much from him on his first year.

[cd98]

Spurs didn't use his talents right. I bet they made adjustments. Why make an athletic slasher a spot up shooter? I want him driving to the hoop and energizing the crowd with his monstrous dunks.

Also put him in the low post. He was very good there in limited opportunities.

[TD 21]

Knock McDonald all you want, I think he summed this one up perfectly: both sides needed each other.

I am of the opinion that Jefferson can rebound next season. He's clearly not a perfect fit, but that doesn't mean he can't be a better fit than he was last season. So long as he has a better grasp of the system, what his role is and progresses to the mean in terms of his career three-point shooting, he will be a better fit. Not only is that not asking too much, I think that's more likely to happen than not.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Jefferson will be better next season. While he is not a top 20 talent, he's not a bottom 20. He's better than Korver and a number of players that got paid this summer. He'll be motivated and both he and the Spurs will make the necessary adjustments to maximize his game.

He had many bright moments that were overshadowed by his contract.

That's the optimistic take... I hope you are right, although I am sceptical.


Spurs didn't use his talents right. I bet they made adjustments. Why make an athletic slasher a spot up shooter? I want him driving to the hoop and energizing the crowd with his monstrous dunks.

Also put him in the low post. He was very good there in limited opportunities.

You're missing the point - we play a certain system and RJ doesn't fit it. Are we going to adopt a whole new system to suit him? Unlikely. Thus, we actually should have gone in a different direction and signed a player who would fit what we need.

Also, there is little room in the post for RJ now that we have Tim and Splitter. And we need RJ to knock down corner 3s for the system to work. And what we need most of all is a lockdown perimeter defender, and RJ is simply not capable of that.

Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole never works out well, and that is what we have here.

[MaNu4Tres]

Knock McDonald all you want, I think he summed this one up perfectly: both sides needed each other.

I am of the opinion that Jefferson can rebound next season. He's clearly not a perfect fit, but that doesn't mean he can't be a better fit than he was last season. So long as he has a better grasp of the system, what his role is and progresses to the mean in terms of his career three-point shooting, he will be a better fit. Not only is that not asking too much, I think that's more likely to happen than not.

:tu

[DesignatedT]

Knock McDonald all you want, I think he summed this one up perfectly: both sides needed each other.

I am of the opinion that Jefferson can rebound next season. He's clearly not a perfect fit, but that doesn't mean he can't be a better fit than he was last season. So long as he has a better grasp of the system, what his role is and progresses to the mean in terms of his career three-point shooting, he will be a better fit. Not only is that not asking too much, I think that's more likely to happen than not.

I agree

[ElNono]

Spurs didn't use his talents right. I bet they made adjustments. Why make an athletic slasher a spot up shooter? I want him driving to the hoop and energizing the crowd with his monstrous dunks.

Because he plays with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. So you give the ball to your best players and the rest play off what they can get you. In our system, that's 3 point shots or long 2 pointers. If you think we're going to put the ball in RJ's hands and ask Tim and Tony to get out of the way, then you're delusional.

His best shot at a run and gun game is with the second unit. But we don't really have a starting SF other than RJ right now, and it looks pretty bleak we will find one at this point.

[cd98]

Because he plays with Tim Duncan and Tony Parker. So you give the ball to your best players and the rest play off what they can get you. In our system, that's 3 point shots or long 2 pointers. If you think we're going to put the ball in RJ's hands and ask Tim and Tony to get out of the way, then you're delusional.

His best shot at a run and gun game is with the second unit. But we don't really have a starting SF other than RJ right now, and it looks pretty bleak we will find one at this point.

Not what I'm saying. He doesn't need the ball every possession, but give him a few touches a game. Tim will play reduced minutes and people here complain Parker shoots too much as is.

Only a fool would say that the system is so inflexible it can't handle a few new wrinkles to take advantage of a good players unique skill set.

Again not every play down, but keep him involved in the offense and the Spurs will be much improved.

[texaskid]

a good news，we have one SF，who is next？

[Chieflion]

RJ can knock down corner 3s at a respectable level. I know he didn't take a lot last season, only attempted 75 corner 3s. He made 27. That is 36%. It must be noted that he shot 39.5% from the right corner and the right corner 2, he shot 57.6%. He adds that extra dimension of pump-faking, and being able to step in two or three feet for his high percentage shot at least from the right side. That was last season.

Going backwards, in Milwaukee (his career scoring year), Jefferson shot 45.8% from the corner 3. In a coincidence, he took and made the same amount of shots from both corners in 2009. From the right 45 degree angle, he shot 43.2% from 3 as opposed to 29.5% from the left 45 degree angle.

My conclusion, though not perfect, is that Jefferson has the ability to shoot both corner 3s but is somewhat weaker on the left side, as opposed to the right. His inability to get shots in due to the fact that he is opposite the floor where Tim Duncan sets up from, the left block. Jefferson has always been placed on the right side of the court to maximize his efficiency and not his touches.

[SpursTillTheEnd]

man yall fools still on this bullshit fuck this man if r fucking j signs for more dan 3/24 smh he better not start

[MaNu4Tres]

RJ can knock down corner 3s at a respectable level. I know he didn't take a lot last season, only attempted 75 corner 3s. He made 27. That is 36%. It must be noted that he shot 39.5% from the right corner and the right corner 2, he shot 57.6%. He adds that extra dimension of pump-faking, and being able to step in two or three feet for his high percentage shot at least from the right side. That was last season.

Going backwards, in Milwaukee (his career scoring year), Jefferson shot 45.8% from the corner 3. In a coincidence, he took and made the same amount of shots from both corners in 2009. From the right 45 degree angle, he shot 43.2% from 3 as opposed to 29.5% from the left 45 degree angle.

My conclusion, though not perfect, is that Jefferson has the ability to shoot both corner 3s but is somewhat weaker on the left side, as opposed to the right. His inability to get shots in due to the fact that he is opposite the floor where Tim Duncan sets up from, the left block. Jefferson has always been placed on the right side of the court to maximize his efficiency and not his touches.

Just to add to Chieflon's find.. Here's some back up ammo for his argument.

*This was written just a year ago, proving what R.J is capable of*

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=spurstrade-090623

"However, one thing that may have caught San Antonio's attention was his 39.7 percent mark on 3-pointers in 2008-09, a career high that he set by taking far more attempts than he'd taken in the past. The Spurs ask their small forwards to spot up in the corners as much as any team in the league, and Jefferson made 54-of-118 (45.9 percent) from those spots a season ago. If that wasn't a fluke and he nails it consistently, he can really make opponents pay for doubling Duncan, Parker or Ginobili."

[ElNono]

RJ can knock down corner 3s at a respectable level. I know he didn't take a lot last season, only attempted 75 corner 3s. He made 27. That is 36%. It must be noted that he shot 39.5% from the right corner and the right corner 2, he shot 57.6%. He adds that extra dimension of pump-faking, and being able to step in two or three feet for his high percentage shot at least from the right side. That was last season.

Going backwards, in Milwaukee (his career scoring year), Jefferson shot 45.8% from the corner 3. In a coincidence, he took and made the same amount of shots from both corners in 2009. From the right 45 degree angle, he shot 43.2% from 3 as opposed to 29.5% from the left 45 degree angle.

My conclusion, though not perfect, is that Jefferson has the ability to shoot both corner 3s but is somewhat weaker on the left side, as opposed to the right. His inability to get shots in due to the fact that he is opposite the floor where Tim Duncan sets up from, the left block. Jefferson has always been placed on the right side of the court to maximize his efficiency and not his touches.

There's a difference between catch and shoot and shooting in rhythm. In the bucks he simply was much more involved with the ball.

To be honest, if he can't really shoot the corner 3 as well, a jumper a few steps inside the 3 point line would be just as effective if he can manage to knock those down consistently. Somewhat what Dice did for us against Dallas.

[Chieflion]

Check www.nba.com/hotspots for more valuable shooting information.

[Chieflion]

There's a difference between catch and shoot and shooting in rhythm. In the bucks he simply was much more involved with the ball.

To be honest, if he can't really shoot the corner 3 as well, a jumper a few steps inside the 3 point line would be just as effective if he can manage to knock those down consistently. Somewhat what Dice did for us against Dallas.

Like I said, I didn't say the analysis is perfect, it doesn't state anything about off-the dribble, spot up shooting and what not. However, since he managed to prove he can shoot at such an effective rate, (seriously, who takes corner 3s while on the move), I am optimistic he would be able to prove he would be able to do come close to that mark again.

[MaNu4Tres]

There's a good chance Spurs may be getting away with robbery with this new deal, considering Jefferson's stock is at an all-time low.

[TD 21]

RJ can knock down corner 3s at a respectable level. I know he didn't take a lot last season, only attempted 75 corner 3s. He made 27. That is 36%. It must be noted that he shot 39.5% from the right corner and the right corner 2, he shot 57.6%. He adds that extra dimension of pump-faking, and being able to step in two or three feet for his high percentage shot at least from the right side. That was last season.

Going backwards, in Milwaukee (his career scoring year), Jefferson shot 45.8% from the corner 3. In a coincidence, he took and made the same amount of shots from both corners in 2009. From the right 45 degree angle, he shot 43.2% from 3 as opposed to 29.5% from the left 45 degree angle.

My conclusion, though not perfect, is that Jefferson has the ability to shoot both corner 3s but is somewhat weaker on the left side, as opposed to the right. His inability to get shots in due to the fact that he is opposite the floor where Tim Duncan sets up from, the left block. Jefferson has always been placed on the right side of the court to maximize his efficiency and not his touches.

Good post. I've never been a big Jefferson fan (I thought he was an overrated showboat in his earlier days), but to be fair...

This notion that he can't shoot the three (particularly from the corner) is ridiculous. The guy had an off year from three. If you look at his career, he's been a decent three point shooter (34.8%) and has gradually improved throughout his career. If two seasons ago was an aberration at 39.7%, then last season was too, at 31.6%. There's no reason to think he won't shoot at least around his career average next season. I suspect he'll be slightly higher, something around 36%, which is above his career average, but in line with him gradually progressing throughout his career.

[MaNu4Tres]

This notion that he can't shoot the three (particularly from the corner) is ridiculous. The guy had an off year from three. If you look at his career, he's been a decent three point shooter (34.8%) and has gradually improved throughout his career. If two seasons ago was an aberration at 39.7%, then last season was too, at 31.6%. There's no reason to think he won't shoot at least around his career average next season. I suspect he'll be slightly higher, something around 36%, which is above his career average, but in line with him gradually progressing throughout his career.

Jefferson actually shot 39 % the first 2 months of the season from 3. The months of December, January and February was where he gradually lost confidence in his shot (for w/e reason).

He then resorted to being more aggressive at taking the ball to the basket, which consequently increased his overall shooting percentage and free throw attempts.

Hopefully this summer he regains confidence in the three. That one aspect can open up so many things for the overall offense as whole and for himself.

[Chieflion]

Now going deeper into the analysis, assuming Master Splitter can be somewhat of a good low-post option from the right side, and able to draw double teams on a rare occasion, RJ would be able to make the defense pay for leaving him open as he would be on the right side of the court too.*

This only happens if Tiago Splitter is what people thought he would be and not only just a hustle player.

[HarlemHeat37]

Jefferson simply needs the ball to be effective, since he isn't a standout shooter, and he's an average defender..

His usage % before joining the Spurs in the last few seasons was: 24, 26, 22, 22..

His usage % with the Spurs this season was 18..

Even with his low production and usage this season, his WS/48 was still as much or more as any of those seasons, which speaks on how hollow and empty those raw stats were(as does his PER, other numbers as well)..

At this point of his career, Jefferson needs a high usage % to be a consistent scorer, and he won't get that on the Spurs or any other good team..if Jefferson has a high usage %, you're pretty much guaranteed to be a mediocre team..

Where are his touches going to come from?..while I agree that Jefferson was at times underused, his assisted % numbers aren't different from the previous 2 seasons in Milwaukee and New Jersey..in fact, during his last year in NJ, he actually created even less offense for himself than he did during this past season with the Spurs..

Jefferson needs to have the ball in his hands, and he needs the team to focus on running plays for him..they simply can't do this in San Antonio, because the Spurs have 3 guys that are clearly better options than him, and it now appears that George Hill has emerged as a better option as well..I hope they will run more plays for him(screens, cuts, post-ups, alley-oops, whatever), but it won't be enough for him to contribute on a consistent basis IMO..

His team defense could get better with added knowledge of the system, but Jefferson has never really been a high IQ player, despite what Pop has said..he quite often made ridiculously stupid plays with the Spurs last season, and he probably missed more rotations than anybody on the team..I think his added knowledge + his continued decline in athleticism will cancel each other out..

I agree his shooting will be better, but how much better?..

36%, 34%, 32%, 36%, 36%, 40%, 32% is his 3-point % for his career since he became a 3-point shooter..he shot 40% with the Bucks with the highest total volume of any other season..this is clearly an anomaly, since he had never done this in the past, and he couldn't even come close the following season..

39%, 42%, 42%, 45%, 45%, 43%, 46%, 41% are his overall jump shot % numbers..the Milwaukee % was the highest by a slight margin, but it was also the most volume by a good margin, so also most likely an anomaly, since he had a massive drop the following season..

If Jefferson improves his shooting to what should be expected, he could be a passable option as a starter..not a great option, but passable..he would still have his defensive problems, and he would still have his problems contributing..we've also seen that Jefferson often has trouble contributing in other areas when he isn't getting his touches..

So as I have said before, the best option for the Spurs and Jefferson is for him to come off the bench(with Manu starting), so he can be the focal point of the bench offense and play against mostly inferior players..

The problem for the Spurs is that they currently don't have another SF that can be a passable starter(Hairston is a question mark until preseason, and nobody else has been signed), so hopefully they can get that done..

Either way, Jefferson will more than likely not be worth what he contributes, or at least he shouldn't be, at least IMO..well, unless they get him at a bargain, which I doubt, but I'm hopeful..

[My Fault]

Beyond RJ getting better in the Spurs system doesn't anyone think Pop will actually makes changes to the system to get more out of RJ? A lot of last year was not using him to his strengths when he drove to the cup he had good games. Since the Spurs have not had anyone at the SF spot to attack the rim since Sean, the system also was the problem. If Pop was indeed working with RJ they could end up finding a way for the system to work with him in it. There was a reason everyone was excited last year for RJ coming over. He has talent. Just nobody like him has been in the Spurs system therefore a change is needed.

[ploto]

Bringing back RJ is a bad move. I do not care if they had to sign some guy at the skill level of the rest of the MLE, it would have been better than tying up 4 or 5 years on this guy. They still could have tried to work a trade at the deadline or something to bring in a SF.

Basically, the Spurs decided to switch out Splitter for Ian and add a couple of young guys who will never play, and call it an off-season.

[ElNono]

I think one adjustment Pop made midway through the season to get RJ more involved was the handoff off the pick and roll. The thing is, when you have two master of the pick and roll in Tony and Tim, it's hard to prioritize RJ. Since Splitter is supposed to be a pretty good P&R player too, there might be an opportunity there for RJ and him to run that while he's playing with the second unit. Obviously, this is a big unknown until we see Splitter out there and how he feels in the NBA.

[DPG21920]

Why should the Spurs focus on getting a 5th option involved more? It is a losing proposition to play to RJ's strengths at the expense of others. RJ's role requires him to take what is given to him.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Lakers are another good example with Artest..his usage was similar to Jefferson's this season, and he was also a prolific scorer before the season..they can't run as many plays for him, because they obviously have better options(Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, Odom), he has trouble creating for himself too..he was used as a spot-up shooter, and he didn't respond, having one of the worst offensive playoffs in NBA history..

However, he contributed in other ways, especially with the obvious impact of his defense..

Since Jefferson can't respond as a spot-up shooter and doesn't bring any defense/toughness/IQ/intangibles, I think having him come off the bench is by far the best option for the Spurs..

So hopefully they find a competent starter at some point before next season's playoffs..

[lefty]

17 years/$102MM.
Kovalchuck ?????????????????

[My Fault]

Why should the Spurs focus on getting a 5th option involved more? It is a losing proposition to play to RJ's strengths at the expense of others. RJ's role requires him to take what is given to him.

Because it takes scoring load off the aging core. Which in part is the reason RJ was brought in. Changing the system to incoporate RJ strengths more doesn't have to be at the expense of others. Just to work as a team more.

[crc21209]

Bringing back RJ is a bad move. I do not care if they had to sign some guy at the skill level of the rest of the MLE, it would have been better than tying up 4 or 5 years on this guy. They still could have tried to work a trade at the deadline or something to bring in a SF.

Basically, the Spurs decided to switch out Splitter for Ian and add a couple of young guys who will never play, and call it an off-season.

RJ > any other scraps that would have been left out there...

[cd98]

Why should the Spurs focus on getting a 5th option involved more? It is a losing proposition to play to RJ's strengths at the expense of others. RJ's role requires him to take what is given to him.

Tim and Manu will see less playing time during the regular season. Jefferson's should get more shots this season.

[Solid D]

Kovalchuck ?????????????????

:lol The superficial logic behind that contract (his sweater # is 17, thus 17 year contract).....using similar logic, RJ's contract would be :wow

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why should the Spurs focus on getting a 5th option involved more? It is a losing proposition to play to RJ's strengths at the expense of others. RJ's role requires him to take what is given to him.

Exactly! And we're likely to pay 8-10mil for that guy!? I'd rather start a scrub like Simmons, or some youth like Hairston or Gee (who knows what these guys could do given some time?).

Sheeit. Unless it's a very cheap contract (5-6mil per), this is the worst FO move since Scola... don't even mention Bonner - like him or not, 3mil a year is not massively overpaying for the guy (2mil/yr would have been about right).


RJ > any other scraps that would have been left out there...

Sure, but you don't have to sign him and clog up your cap with an unmovable contract just because he's there! Hell, I'd rather we pay him 15mil this year and then let him go than sign him 24/3yrs given that a contract like that makes him difficult to trade (no-one wants him!).

Ugh. I really hate this move. We aren't contending with RJ, and nor are we building for the future because Pop will have to play him instead of developing two very promising youngsters in Hairston and Gee. Young players need time to shine, and we're committing to 32mpg of RJ's mediocrity. :pctoss

[Mhak]

man yall fools still on this bullshit fuck this man if r fucking j signs for more dan 3/24 smh he better not start


Man.. you sound ingnorant and stupid!! Go suck Hairston's Dick. You have high hopes for scurbs like yourself!!! Unless your Hairston and promoting your sorry ass in this site... GTFOH!!

[Chieflion]

People need to calm down before the contract numbers are finalized. After that, we can all join the meltdown.

[rmt]

Exactly! And we're likely to pay 8-10mil for that guy!? I'd rather start a scrub like Simmons, or some youth like Hairston or Gee (who knows what these guys could do given some time?).

Sheeit. Unless it's a very cheap contract (5-6mil per), this is the worst FO move since Scola... don't even mention Bonner - like him or not, 3mil a year is not massively overpaying for the guy (2mil/yr would have been about right).

Sure, but you don't have to sign him and clog up your cap with an unmovable contract just because he's there! Hell, I'd rather we pay him 15mil this year and then let him go than sign him 24/3yrs given that a contract like that makes him difficult to trade (no-one wants him!).

Ugh. I really hate this move. We aren't contending with RJ, and nor are we building for the future because Pop will have to play him instead of developing two very promising youngsters in Hairston and Gee. Young players need time to shine, and we're committing to 32mpg of RJ's mediocrity. :pctoss

At 24/3years, it's only 4.5mil per year (after the 15mil that he's owed) so that doesn't sound so bad considering he's the only SF on the team. I'm not so angry about RJ as Bonner because there are no other options at that position.

Bonner, on the other hand, has 4 bigs ahead of him more deserving of playing time. I hate that stat shown earlier in the thread where Blair lost most of his playing time during the playoffs and Bonner got the same amount as his RS. It's better for Blair to get valuable playoff experience so that he improves (similar to Hill his first year) than watch Bonner choke away yet another playoff. I'd much rather someone like Ratliff (with length - for the Lakers) at vet. min than Bonner long-term with a raise.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

At 24/3years, it's only 4.5mil per year (after the 15mil that he's owed) so that doesn't sound so bad considering he's the only SF on the team. I'm not so angry about RJ as Bonner because there are no other options at that position.

Bonner, on the other hand, has 4 bigs ahead of him more deserving of playing time. I hate that stat shown earlier in the thread where Blair lost most of his playing time during the playoffs and Bonner got the same amount as his RS. It's better for Blair to get valuable playoff experience so that he improves (similar to Hill his first year) than watch Bonner choke away yet another playoff. I'd much rather someone like Ratliff (with length - for the Lakers) at vet. min than Bonner long-term with a raise.

Unfortunately, your maths is not the way the salary cap is calculated. He will still be an immovable 8-10mil contract, and that hamstrings the franchise's future, all for an average player who doesn't make the team any better. Seems bloody idiotic to me.

Bonner, OTOH, is eminently moveable at 3mil per. He is Pop's stretch 4, something Pop seems unable to get by without. That isn't a big issue for 3mil/yr. I would have taken Steve Novak for the minimum, but Bonner is fine at 3mil/yr.

[AFBlue]

People need to calm down before the contract numbers are finalized. After that, we can all join the meltdown.

Agree with this. The overreaction as to what RJs contract could look like is premature. If it aligns with Manu's contract in terms of years and isn't large enough in terms of dollars to prevent a Parker extension, then it's probably a good value that gives this team the best chance of winning going forward.

I'm in wait-and-see mode at this point.

[tuncaboylu]

Unfortunately, your maths is not the way the salary cap is calculated. He will still be an immovable 8-10mil contract, and that hamstrings the franchise's future, all for an average player who doesn't make the team any better. Seems bloody idiotic to me.


I don't agree. We have 2 years left in Duncan era and we can't find a better fit than RJ by our remaining 2.4M from MLE. If we're going to try another chance to contend, bringing RJ back is a must. Maybe we could use him in S&T to find a better fit, but it doesn't seem that too many teams interest with him.

Let's assume that we won't resign with RJ. Would it make us stronger for this year? Obviously no. Would it create enoguh cap space to add a superstar in 2011 summer? No, even we don't resign with TP we don't have enoguh cap space to sign more than 8M contract with a free agent next summer.

That's why we should sign with RJ.

[024]

i would vastly prefer a S&T. jefferson doesn't fit defensively or offensively. jefferson can score but the spurs have enough offense and will get even more with splitter, blair, hill, and anderson. spurs need capable wing defenders. oh well...

[will_spurs]

I think a lot of people don't realize how bad the situation was for the Spurs before RJ opted out. He was owned $15.2m plus the luxury tax, which would probably have been around $7m. I'm sure he told the Spurs "give me the $22m I would have cost you last year but spread over 2 years, then $5m per year for 2 more years for a total of $32m over 4 years".

I don't understand why people would prefer RJ for 1 year for $22m rather than RJ for 4 years for $32m total, with a nice trade chip at the end. Wiht that kind of contract the Spurs basically get RJ for 3.5m/y for 3 years...

[ceperez]

I think a lot of people don't realize how bad the situation was for the Spurs before RJ opted out. He was owned $15.2m plus the luxury tax, which would probably have been around $7m. I'm sure he told the Spurs "give me the $22m I would have cost you last year but spread over 2 years, then $5m per year for 2 more years for a total of $32m over 4 years".

I don't understand why people would prefer RJ for 1 year for $22m rather than RJ for 4 years for $32m total, with a nice trade chip at the end. Wiht that kind of contract the Spurs basically get RJ for 3.5m/y for 3 years...

Haven't been following this, but I figure RJ is worth minimum 7m a year ( based on comparable). Now let's say he wants to be nice and spares the Spurs the luxury tax. So he wants 15m plus 7m for 3 more seasons. That is total 36m for 4 years. Anything less would be a bargain.

[EricB]

:lmao @ starting Hairston


Good god...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

All I have to say is that all of you who seem so desperate to sign RJ for 8-10mil better not complain when he doesn't improve this season and his contract becomes an albatross around our necks.

I will happily admit I was wrong if he exceeds expectations and plays well, and consistently, at both ends, but I really think he's not going to help this team to improve next year, and that tells me we should go another direction - even if it is a scrub like Simmons playing 24 mins, and the youngsters accounting for the rest.

We are not going to magically become relevant again by signing declining vets to bloated contracts ($8mil/yr is a bit rich, but essentially okay for a proven versatile mid-career swingman like Salmons, but for a 30 year old who we already know doesn't fit our team it's a sham). It's time for youth.

[EricB]

an albatross in two years when they are a lottery team? Oh noes!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

an albatross in two years when they are a lottery team? Oh noes!

What if it is an albatross that gets in the way of a big signing? Come on, consider the bigger picture here.

If we re-sign him for his value, which is around the MLE, I have no problem, but RJ is simply not worth anywhere near 8-10mil/yr.

[EricB]

What if it is an albatross that gets in the way of a big signing? Come on, consider the bigger picture here.

If we re-sign him for his value, which is around the MLE, I have no problem, but RJ is simply not worth anywhere near 8-10mil/yr.


What big signing?

When this team goes into lottery territory no big prize FA is coming.

Hell they didn't come in 2003 when Duncan was at his peak and they had budding studs in Parker and Manu and huge capspace.


Smell the coffee and come back to reality, the contract he gets doesn't mean squat.

The only one it matters to are people who for some reason think this matters when it all reality, it really doesn't.

They have nothing better on the bench, fact, there isn't a FA available better, fact.

[MaNu4Tres]

What if it is an albatross that gets in the way of a big signing? Come on, consider the bigger picture here.




The only big signing the Spurs can afford the next two off-seasons is Parker because of his bird rights.

With Splitter, Bonner and Anderson signed, the Spurs will only have around 7-8 million in cap space next summer and the following, which is without Jefferson and without Parker signed (with the current CBA; which is most likely to reduce with the new CBA).

Jefferson's new contract won't be the reason why Spurs can't afford a big signing the next two seasons.

The only way they will be able to add players is via MLE.

If R.J gets a 3 year deal worth around 24-27 million with a team option for the fourth year, it won't be an " albatross" around the Spurs' neck and it won't prevent the Spurs from signing a significant free agent because even before his signing they wouldn't be able to afford a player of great ability anyway.

After the first two years is up, (whether if its a 3 year deal strictly or a 4 yr deal with a team option for the 4th yr.) a 7-9 million dollar expiring contract is nothing to gripe about and is relatively easy to move to a team trying to shave off cap space or to a team trying to add a piece for a potential title run (since it's only a one year expiring).

And if for some crazy reason no team is interested in his expiring contract, the Spurs will only have Manu, R.J, Splitter, Bonner, Hill, Anderson, Blair under contract (as of now) worth a total of 38-39 million. Add in the 2011 1st rounder and the MLE for 2011 (if they use it) the Spurs will be left with around 15-17 million in cap space to be a significant player in the free agent market in the summer of 2012.

And in the following summer in 2013, Manu and R.J's (if its a 3 year deal or 3 yr deal + team option for the 4th) will come off the books and Spurs will have even more money to splurge.

As you can see Jefferson's new contract doesn't exactly hand-cuff or become an albatross to the Spurs by any means.

[mountainballer]

I think a lot of people don't realize how bad the situation was for the Spurs before RJ opted out. He was owned $15.2m plus the luxury tax, which would probably have been around $7m. I'm sure he told the Spurs "give me the $22m I would have cost you last year but spread over 2 years, then $5m per year for 2 more years for a total of $32m over 4 years".

I don't understand why people would prefer RJ for 1 year for $22m rather than RJ for 4 years for $32m total, with a nice trade chip at the end. Wiht that kind of contract the Spurs basically get RJ for 3.5m/y for 3 years...

very good post. little hope that there isn't a chance this facts won't be ignored, even by people with knowledge. IMO Spurs just did an unemotional evaluation of the options along the line you described.
if RJ in fact signs for 4 years and 32 million, it was a good deal for the Spurs in the first place! period. this goes for this year and the next year and I assume it is common knowledge that this will be the years Spurs try to stay competitive. year 3 might be a wash and in years 4 his expiring contract might even become a valuable asset in a rebuilding process.

[Obstructed_View]

I think a lot of people don't realize how bad the situation was for the Spurs before RJ opted out. He was owned $15.2m plus the luxury tax, which would probably have been around $7m. I'm sure he told the Spurs "give me the $22m I would have cost you last year but spread over 2 years, then $5m per year for 2 more years for a total of $32m over 4 years".

I don't understand why people would prefer RJ for 1 year for $22m rather than RJ for 4 years for $32m total, with a nice trade chip at the end. Wiht that kind of contract the Spurs basically get RJ for 3.5m/y for 3 years...

To be honest, I think people would prefer RJ for zero years rather than for four years. He's already opted out, so the 1 year for 22 million thing doesn't apply. Also, while it's nice that the organization saves lux tax money, turning around and reinvesting it in Jefferson is pretty stupid. The Spurs still end up with a guy that is being overpaid relative to his contribution.

People like TPark like to shit on Hairston as a potential starter, which doesn't really make sense. He can't possibly be much worse can than Jefferson was last season.

[Chieflion]

very good post. little hope that there isn't a chance this facts won't be ignored, even by people with knowledge. IMO Spurs just did an unemotional evaluation of the options along the line you described.
if RJ in fact signs for 4 years and 32 million, it was a good deal for the Spurs in the first place! period. this goes for this year and the next year and I assume it is common knowledge that this will be the years Spurs try to stay competitive. year 3 might be a wash and in years 4 his expiring contract might even become a valuable asset in a rebuilding process.

I hope the Spurs pull a Dampier like contract on Jefferson. Although the DUST chip didn't work as planned, it still got a valuable return.

[will_spurs]

To be honest, I think people would prefer RJ for zero years rather than for four years. He's already opted out, so the 1 year for 22 million thing doesn't apply. Also, while it's nice that the organization saves lux tax money, turning around and reinvesting it in Jefferson is pretty stupid. The Spurs still end up with a guy that is being overpaid relative to his contribution.

That's because you believe (and are one of the only ones, by the way) that Jefferson opted out on a whim when all the signs point towards the fact that he had some kind of agreement with the Spurs before he did so.

If you believe RJ left on a whim then it "could" make sense to believe the Spurs would be better off without him at all. Unfortunately that path leads to questionable calls re: the quality of players such as Hairston.

If you believe RJ agreed beforehand with the Spurs then signing him for 4y and $32m makes a lot more sense than spending $22m on him for just one year.

Also, 4y/$32m is a good move by the Spurs because RJ will have gotten what he wanted and will feel he came out on top and got what he was "due", which I think will lead to better play and improved commitment on his part, especially if the Spurs ask him to have a dirty or at least less flashy role than he's used to and that he could (without the benefit a long term deal) see as ruining his market value (which has already happened).

Lowballing him after he opted out, or him not opting out at all, would be much worse for the Spurs, with either the player or the organization being disgruntled, and maybe even both.

[ElNono]

What's this nonsense now? We're throwing money at people so they look less dumb from overvaluing themselves and walking away from $16m guaranteed?

Let's look at the terms. I think the amount of money/years will be indicative if there was a previous deal in place or not, as timvp said.

[ceperez]

My instincts say $32m/4 years is a bit on the low side. $36m/4 years seems fair and anything below that is a bargain.

Let's wait and see what the numbers really are. I hope it is not $40m/4 years!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

People like TPark like to shit on Hairston as a potential starter, which doesn't really make sense. He can't possibly be much worse can than Jefferson was last season.

You can't really watch basketball and actually believe that, can you?

I mean, it's all good that people like to shit on RJ, most of it is well deserved, but saying that Hairston/Gee or whatever scrub the Spurs could eventually get for $2.3 mil would be just as good as RJ is outright nonsense.

RJ is easily worth MLE type of money, in fact, compared to some deals from the past month, he's worth even more.He's also the best available player for the SF job right now and likely for the next two seasons.This is the window the Spurs have to contend - 2 years - and for that period neither Hairston, nor Gee, Barnes, Butler, Simmons or whoever else is realistically available for the Spurs, gives a better chance to contend than RJ.

The key is having the best chance for a title run in the next 2 years, not whether or not RJ's eventual new contract would or would not be a cap killer for the begining of the rebuilding period, because it won't be and it doesn't really matter, especially right now. Maybe only to Holt but not from a basketball point of view.

[TJastal]

Exactly. With as high profiled RJ is this off season (relatively big name, surprising opt out, under the microscope...) we have not heard a peep about any team making an offer.

He might be a good value, but that does not make it a smart move.

I compare this to going to Wal*Mart to shop for food and you see a flat screen for 700 dollars that is a steal. That does not mean you buy it. :lol

+1

I'm with you DPG, the spurs should have just let RJ opt out and go his own way and signed someone like Barnes for the LLE

This move actually makes the Bonner signing look good in comparison.

[JonNOKC]

It is suprising how bad people make RJ out to be - in his worse year of his career he still posted 12pts, 5rebs a game while shooting a repectable pct from the field - if RJ can come back and shoot 36-38% and alittle better effort on defense then at 7-9 million a year he is not a bargain but look around the league and he no where close to being overpaid

I think RJ will make small improvements and average about 13-14pts, 5-6 rebs, shoot 48% FG, 36 3PT, and ultimately if he can bring decent defenseive minutes and show a better feel/chemistry with the offense then I consider it a successful season

[JonNOKC]

+1

I'm with you DPG, the spurs should have just let RJ opt out and go his own way and signed someone like Barnes for the LLE

This move actually makes the Bonner signing look good in comparison.

I wouldn't of had a problem with Barnes - he especially would of offered good value, but he never mentioned the Spurs as a option at any time in FA and never heard him as being targeted by Spurs FO - the advantage of RJ over Barnes is if someone is injured RJ shown the ability to be 2nd or 3rd scoring option - also some on this board vastly overrate Barnes 3pt ability which is no better and statistically worse than RJ - now is that worth 5-6 million more a year - probably not but on the landscape of free agency and contracts of SF around the league RJ's contract is hardly the travesty some on this board seem to think it is

[Obstructed_View]

That's because you believe (and are one of the only ones, by the way) that Jefferson opted out on a whim when all the signs point towards the fact that he had some kind of agreement with the Spurs before he did so.
I do believe that. Howevah, if there had been some kind of secret deal, then the Spurs would have no choice but to follow through with that deal. There are reports that the Spurs were looking elsewhere for a small forward, and it's unlikely that they would have done so if they'd committed to RJ. In fact, the way the Spurs operate, they would have just signed him for whatever this amount is the first day they could, right? I don't know for sure, but I think having a handshake agreement like that to circumvent the luxury tax is against the rules. If that's the case, then there's another reason I don't think the Spurs would have done it.



If you believe RJ left on a whim then it "could" make sense to believe the Spurs would be better off without him at all.
Exacly the case I was making. Some people don't think it's such a good deal to overpay RJ for several more years when they had this season as such a gigantic trade chip to potentially use before Tony Parker becomes a free agent and before Tim Duncan gets two or three years older. In other words, Jefferson had far more value to the team before he opted out, and it's not impossible that the Spurs might have thought so too.


If you believe RJ agreed beforehand with the Spurs then signing him for 4y and $32m makes a lot more sense than spending $22m on him for just one year.
I understand your position, and the math works, but if you believe RJ agreed beforehand with the Spurs then they had to pay him no matter what, because they committed to it. Saving some luxury tax money is great and all, but it doesn't mean much when the same player is on the floor after Tim Duncan's retired.


Also, 4y/$32m is a good move by the Spurs because RJ will have gotten what he wanted and will feel he came out on top and got what he was "due", which I think will lead to better play and improved commitment on his part, especially if the Spurs ask him to have a dirty or at least less flashy role than he's used to and that he could (without the benefit a long term deal) see as ruining his market value (which has already happened).
Again, if you believe this was agreed on beforehand, all this is moot. This sentiment that you'd better pay RJ or he will pout and suddenly suck even more is completely ridiculous. If you thought he was that kind of player, why sign him for four more years? He was horribly overpaid, and you don't continue to horribly overpay someone for fear that they'll stop trying.


Lowballing him after he opted out, or him not opting out at all, would be much worse for the Spurs, with either the player or the organization being disgruntled, and maybe even both.
I disagree. The only way he's even close to worth that kind of commitment is if all of the Spurs' young players wash out in the NBA. I'm sure TPark is crossing his fingers that it happens. If the RJ of last season is as good as he gets with the Spurs, then they're going to need to look elsewhere for someone at that position if they want to contend.

[tuncaboylu]

+1

I'm with you DPG, the spurs should have just let RJ opt out and go his own way and signed someone like Barnes for the LLE

This move actually makes the Bonner signing look good in comparison.

Someone like Barnes for the LLE? Barnes was going to sign 2 year 10M contract if Toronto did'nt use their trade exception.

Can you tell me who else like Barnes in free agent at the moment? And tell me which of them would prefer to play in Spurs for LLE? Rasual Butler? Will he accept to sign with Spurs for LLE while there are many teams are waiting to use their MLE? Who else? Bobby Simmons? Despite i love that guy, I don't think that he can be our starting SF? Do you think he can?

We went to Wallmart to get TV, not food. We are looking for LCD TV for a reasonable price. But there is no LCD TV in Wallmart and only 3D TV exist. It's also very cheap, not much more than LCD. So why don't we get 3D TV?

[Chieflion]

Someone like Barnes for the LLE? Barnes was going to sign 2 year 10M contract if Toronto did'nt use their trade exception.

Can you tell me who else like Barnes in free agent at the moment? And tell me which of them would prefer to play in Spurs for LLE? Rasual Butler? Will he accept to sign with Spurs for LLE while there are many teams are waiting to use their MLE? Who else? Bobby Simmons? Despite i love that guy, I don't think that he can be our starting SF? Do you think he can?

We went to Wallmart to get TV, not food. We are looking for LCD TV for a reasonable price. But there is no LCD TV in Wallmart and only 3D TV exist. It's also very cheap, not much more than LCD. So why don't we get 3D TV?

Because the 3D TV doesn't fit the design of the house. I don't care how good it is. It is a bad fit.

[tuncaboylu]

Because the 3D TV doesn't fit the design of the house. I don't care how good it is. It is a bad fit.


But it's better than staying without TV at home.

[will_spurs]

Howevah, if there had been some kind of secret deal, then the Spurs would have no choice but to follow through with that deal.

We don't know what kind of "deal" it could be, and there's no special reason to believe it was a straightforward "we will sign you back no matter what" kind of deal. I think something along the lines of: RJ agrees to opt out (big gift to the Spurs in terms of $$$) to check out the FA market, Spurs check on other possibilities, let's all meet back in a couple of weeks and see what's up, would be totally reasonable.


I don't know for sure, but I think having a handshake agreement like that to circumvent the luxury tax is against the rules. If that's the case, then there's another reason I don't think the Spurs would have done it.You mean, like the secret agreements some teams have to trade a player knowing that he will be waived, and sign him up again 30 days later. Not like the Spurs have done that in the past either, of course. Now that we've got that little "there are no secret deals" fantasy out of the way we can go back to the real world of the NBA.



I understand your position, and the math works, but if you believe RJ agreed beforehand with the Spurs then they had to pay him no matter what, because they committed to it. Saving some luxury tax money is great and all, but it doesn't mean much when the same player is on the floor after Tim Duncan's retired.Not at all, because at that point and according to my estimate, the Spurs will be effectively paying him $3-4 million per year, and if you don't think RJ is worth even that then we sure should stop talking.


Again, if you believe this was agreed on beforehand, all this is moot. This sentiment that you'd better pay RJ or he will pout and suddenly suck even more is completely ridiculous. If you thought he was that kind of player, why sign him for four more years? He was horribly overpaid, and you don't continue to horribly overpay someone for fear that they'll stop trying.Angels might agree to get paid half of what they think they are worth and still give 100% effort. Human beings... not so much.

I fully believe that you will get the best out of people when they are happy with the terms. And regardless of some secret handshake or not, I still think it's a much better deal for the Spurs to get a happy player for 32/4 than a disgruntled player for 22/1.


If the RJ of last season is as good as he gets with the Spurs, then they're going to need to look elsewhere for someone at that position if they want to contend.I really don't know where that comes from either. The Spurs have a history of SF not contributing significantly to raw statistics. We have no idea what's going on behind the scenes, but I'll offer you a likely scenario: Pop knows RJ can be a good defender (fact - this was touted a lot when RJ got traded to the Spurs last year) and we know Pop wants RJ to go back to that defensive speciailst role (fact - appeared very often in Pop's interviews at the time). Now the side effect of that, as we have seen with e.g. Bowen, is that being a defensive specialist instead of a stat machine will suddenly make you ineligible for a variety of things, including: a large contract; consideration from the media; consideration from the large part of fans who think box score = basketball; consideration for achievements; etc. Regardless of the amount of money he was paid ni the short term, I can easily imagine RJ not being that hot about killing his statistical production for a team that hadn't contributed to him on the long term. With a new contract this situation could change drastically.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Agree with this. The overreaction as to what RJs contract could look like is premature. If it aligns with Manu's contract in terms of years and isn't large enough in terms of dollars to prevent a Parker extension, then it's probably a good value that gives this team the best chance of winning going forward.

I'm in wait-and-see mode at this point.

A bit of sanity in this thread. Thank you. For all of the RJ haters out there I'd like to know what they expected out of him last year? What would have made you happy? Afterall he DID do the following:

1. Had the highest scoring average of any 4th option in the Duncan era.
2. Had the highest rebounding average of any SF in the Duncan era except for Hedo Turkolu.
3. Shot his career percentage average.
4. Improved his defense noticeably the last quarter of the season.

So once again, what would have made you happy? The only thing that I can see is that he shot 3% below his career average from the 3 point line.

[Chieflion]

But it's better than staying without TV at home.

I already have a computer and the internet is cheap. I can watch my TV programmes on my laptop.

[benefactor]

There's a good chance Spurs may be getting away with robbery with this new deal, considering Jefferson's stock is at an all-time low.
C'mon now...this is seriously reaching. Yes, this will save the Spurs money. Yes, the Spurs don't have many other options. But this is done out of need...nothing more and nothing less. There is very little upside to keeping Jefferson.

[ploto]

If you believe RJ agreed beforehand with the Spurs then signing him for 4y and $32m makes a lot more sense than spending $22m on him for just one year.

No because with option two: he is an expiring contract possibly to trade and no matter what he is gone at the end of the year.

[MaNu4Tres]

C'mon now...this is seriously reaching. Yes, this will save the Spurs money. Yes, the Spurs don't have many other options. But this is done out of need...nothing more and nothing less. There is very little upside to keeping Jefferson.

I never said it will be highway robbery.

I said there's a chance, given his stock is at an all-time low. *Especially if he is given a deal worth 6-7 mil per year.*

[ploto]

At 24/3years, it's only 4.5mil per year (after the 15mil that he's owed) so that doesn't sound so bad considering he's the only SF on the team.

I am guessing you are one of those people who thinks he actually saved money by buying something on sale.

[ElNono]

A bit of sanity in this thread. Thank you. For all of the RJ haters out there I'd like to know what they expected out of him last year? What would have made you happy? Afterall he DID do the following:

1. Had the highest scoring average of any 4th option in the Duncan era.
2. Had the highest rebounding average of any SF in the Duncan era except for Hedo Turkolu.
3. Shot his career percentage average.
4. Improved his defense noticeably the last quarter of the season.

So once again, what would have made you happy? The only thing that I can see is that he shot 3% below his career average from the 3 point line.

If his upside is so good, why we don't see teams interested in throwing money at him? Mike Miller, who had a fairly similar production on a lousy team last season had no problem fetching a 5 year deal from a cash strapped Miami Heat. Miller is also 30 years old.

I understand other FA's not wanting to come to SA. I just don't see why other teams would have no interest in RJ if he was so good.

The Spurs have been historically weak in that position, at least offensively. Obviously Bowen made up for it on the other end and with his corner 3's, a coveted skill in our system.

Again, if the Spurs had a prearranged deal it should show in his new contract. Let's see what the terms are.

[tuncaboylu]

If his upside is so good, why we don't see teams interested in throwing money at him? Mike Miller, who had a fairly similar production on a lousy team last season had no problem fetching a 5 year deal from a cash strapped Miami Heat. Miller is also 30 years old.

I understand other FA's not wanting to come to SA. I just don't see why other teams would have no interest in RJ if he was so good.

The Spurs have been historically weak in that position, at least offensively. Obviously Bowen made up for it on the other end and with his corner 3's, a coveted skill in our system.

Again, if the Spurs had a prearranged deal it should show in his new contract. Let's see what the terms are.

Mike Miller issue is totally irrelevant. He's offered MLE by many teams, because he was going to accept it. (And his team would not outbid it)

But RJ opted out from an 15M contract and seeking for 4 years 40M contract. That2s why there were no suitors who want to pay this contract to him. If he was eligible for playing MLE, tones of team could offer a contract to RJ. He was just looking much more.

[buttsR4rebounding]

If his upside is so good, why we don't see teams interested in throwing money at him? Mike Miller, who had a fairly similar production on a lousy team last season had no problem fetching a 5 year deal from a cash strapped Miami Heat. Miller is also 30 years old.

I understand other FA's not wanting to come to SA. I just don't see why other teams would have no interest in RJ if he was so good.

The Spurs have been historically weak in that position, at least offensively. Obviously Bowen made up for it on the other end and with his corner 3's, a coveted skill in our system.

Again, if the Spurs had a prearranged deal it should show in his new contract. Let's see what the terms are.

And once again, I ask, what production would have made you happy with him?

[tuncaboylu]

I already have a computer and the internet is cheap. I can watch my TV programmes on my laptop.

So do you mean that we shouldn't resign with RJ and carry on Gee and Hairston?

[coyotes_geek]

If his upside is so good, why we don't see teams interested in throwing money at him? Mike Miller, who had a fairly similar production on a lousy team last season had no problem fetching a 5 year deal from a cash strapped Miami Heat. Miller is also 30 years old.

I understand other FA's not wanting to come to SA. I just don't see why other teams would have no interest in RJ if he was so good.


With the Spurs willing to offer RJ a contract worth more than the MLE, the only teams in the running were the Spurs and the teams with cap room. It's hard to say whether or not anyone else was interested in RJ when the Spurs essentially priced out all but a handful of teams from the very beginning.

[ElNono]

And once again, I ask, what production would have made you happy with him?

At the very least an offensive/defensive production that would put him over Hill when closing out games. That would be an average production at best, something he was unable to pull out obviously, otherwise he would have been out there.

[ElNono]

Mike Miller issue is totally irrelevant. He's offered MLE by many teams, because he was going to accept it. (And his team would not outbid it)

But RJ opted out from an 15M contract and seeking for 4 years 40M contract. That2s why there were no suitors who want to pay this contract to him. If he was eligible for playing MLE, tones of team could offer a contract to RJ. He was just looking much more.

I don't disagree that he overvalued himself. The question is why the Spurs should pay anything substantially more than MLE money if there was nothing pre-arranged.

[ElNono]

With the Spurs willing to offer RJ a contract worth more than the MLE, the only teams in the running were the Spurs and the teams with cap room. It's hard to say whether or not anyone else was interested in RJ when the Spurs essentially priced out all but a handful of teams from the very beginning.

Therein hinges the question. Did they have something pre-arranged? And if so, for how much and how long? Because we heard daily here who was interested in who and I don't recall one single time hearing about any team being interested in RJ's services, even after the LeBron sweepstakes were over and there were a handful of teams with cap space.

[will_spurs]

I don't disagree that he overvalued himself. The question is why the Spurs should pay anything substantially more than MLE money if there was nothing pre-arranged.

If there was nothing pre-arranged then the Spurs should not sign him rather than try to lowball him.

[MaNu4Tres]

Therein hinges the question. Did they have something pre-arranged? And if so, for how much and how long? Because we heard daily here who was interested in who and I don't recall one single time hearing about any team being interested in RJ's services, even after the LeBron sweepstakes were over and there were a handful of teams with cap space.

There weren't many teams that could offer R.J more than the Mid-level or meet; exceed what the Spurs could offer.

The teams with significant cap-space that could offer R.J just as much as the Spurs were :New York (Gallinari, Chandler), New Jersey(Terrance Williams, Travis Outlaw), Miami (Lebron), Sacramento (Casspi, Dante Green), Chicago (Deng), Oklahoma City (Durant). These teams already had valuable options at the small forward position.

The only teams that could offer as much as the Spurs were the Cavaliers and the Clippers. The fact that Clippers just drafted a small forward takes them essentially out of the picture, which leaves just Cleveland as the only team with a significant hole at the small forward position.

So no there weren't a handful of teams with significant cap space that all were realistic scenarios for R.J's services.

[RiverwalkParade]

Chances are San Antonio sat down with RJ and his agent the day after he surprisingly opted out and said "this is our offer and you have until July 21st to think it over"

RJ and his agent then shopped for better option, ther were none and so that brings us to signing day.

You can call it pre-arranged if you want, but chances are RJ just didn't have anyone that would take on 4/40M. Hopefully the SA deal is front loaded and has a team option in the fourth year if it is a four year deal.

[tuncaboylu]

I don't disagree that he overvalued himself. The question is why the Spurs should pay anything substantially more than MLE money if there was nothing pre-arranged.

Honestly I can't say anything about pre-arrangement. I'm suspicious, but I'm not sure of course.

But let's assume that there's no pre-arranged deal between 2 sides. I think that Jefferson's value is more than MLE at the moment, it's obvious. 4 years/32M is very logical and fair deal for both sides. It may be a little more then MLE, but we should offer more then MLE to outbid the potential suitors.

[Chieflion]

So do you mean that we shouldn't resign with RJ and carry on Gee and Hairston?

What do you think?

[coyotes_geek]

Therein hinges the question. Did they have something pre-arranged? And if so, for how much and how long? Because we heard daily here who was interested in who and I don't recall one single time hearing about any team being interested in RJ's services, even after the LeBron sweepstakes were over and there were a handful of teams with cap space.

My guess, well hope, is that instead of a pre-arrangement with specific numbers being discussed the Spurs simply committed to RJ that they would beat the MLE and then let RJ go shop himself to see what kind of offers he might be able to get from any of the teams with cap room.

Even among the teams with cap room RJ's market was going to be small. You had teams like the Bulls and OKC who already had a high priced SF on the roster. And you also had the crappy teams like Sacramento and Cleveland who would only appeal to RJ if they were going to significantly overpay. The knicks and nets are really the only two teams I would consider to have spurned RJ. JMO.......

[wildbill2u]

The Spurs are pretty good at letting players find their level in the FA market. They aren't afraid to let a player go and look for better deals than they think is warranted. Jax is one example. He turned down a better deal than he ultimately signed for to go into FA. I suspect the reason he didn't come back and sign with SA that year was ego.

Pretty obvious that RJ isn't getting any bites close to what he wanted in terms of salary and length of contract. Will ego get in the way of coming back for less money?

[tuncaboylu]

Chances are San Antonio sat down with RJ and his agent the day after he surprisingly opted out and said "this is our offer and you have until July 21st to think it over"

RJ and his agent then shopped for better option, ther were none and so that brings us to signing day.

You can call it pre-arranged if you want, but chances are RJ just didn't have anyone that would take on 4/40M. Hopefully the SA deal is front loaded and has a team option in the fourth year if it is a four year deal.

I don't think that it will be front-loaded, because if we sign that kind of deal, we can pay luxury tax for this year. We're very near to luxury threshold at the moment.

[tuncaboylu]

What do you think?

Just a little different than you, we should resign with RJ and use Gee and Hairston as back-up

[coyotes_geek]

The Spurs are pretty good at letting players find their level in the FA market. They aren't afraid to let a player go and look for better deals than they think is warranted. Jax is one example. He turned down a better deal than he ultimately signed for to go into FA. I suspect the reason he didn't come back and sign with SA that year was ego.

Pretty obvious that RJ isn't getting any bites close to what he wanted in terms of salary and length of contract. Will ego get in the way of coming back for less money?

I wouldn't worry about RJ's ego. He's a professional. Even though he struggled last year the effort was always there.

[lotr1trekkie]

I don't believe that the Spurs would go for 4 years because that is beyond Tim's time. Tiago signed for three so that he can leave when the Spur's suck w/o Tim. A 28 y/o center with skills will be in big demand in 2013. RJ is still the best option for 2 years unless we hit a gold mine out of nowhere. Splitter is [potentially] the perfect fit with Tim as BU center. Tim gets to rest more because Tiago is taking 28 minutes a game. Blair, HIll , Anderson and Manu fill out the 2nd team. Still need a starting shooting guard.

[Chieflion]

Just a little different than you, we should resign with RJ and use Gee and Hairston as back-up

I believe that a 3D TV will decline in effectiveness after a few years and I can't upgrade it. It is quite expensive and I don't want to commit myself to it long-term. With my laptop, I have the chance to upgrade it by adding more RAM, hard disk space, upgrade its graphic card and upgrade to a better processer, and I may even get a good sound system after each passing year. Best of all, it is cheap.

[tuncaboylu]

I believe that a 3D TV will decline in effectiveness after a few years and I can't upgrade it. It is quite expensive and I don't want to commit myself to it long-term. With my laptop, I have the chance to upgrade it by adding more RAM, hard disk space, upgrade its graphic card and upgrade to a better processer, and I may even get a good sound system after each passing year. Best of all, it is cheap.

But we're going to sell our house 2 years later and we should watch as much as movie during this period. And while watching move, our eyes being tired and watching movie in TV is much confortable. Moreover we have enoguh money to buy 3D TV and we can spend that money to buy anything else.
That's why getting 3D TV is better than going at the moment.

[ElNono]

There weren't many teams that could offer R.J more than the Mid-level or meet; exceed what the Spurs could offer.

The teams with significant cap-space that could offer R.J just as much as the Spurs were :New York (Gallinari, Chandler), New Jersey(Terrance Williams, Travis Outlaw), Miami (Lebron), Sacramento (Casspi, Dante Green), Chicago (Deng), Oklahoma City (Durant). These teams already had valuable options at the small forward position.

The only teams that could offer as much as the Spurs were the Cavaliers and the Clippers. The fact that Clippers just drafted a small forward takes them essentially out of the picture, which leaves just Cleveland as the only team with a significant hole at the small forward position.

So no there weren't a handful of teams with significant cap space that all were realistic scenarios for R.J's services.

First of all New Jersey didn't have Travis Outlaw when the FA period started.

Second, if RJ is as good as he's billed here, he should have been a significant upgrade over Gallinari or Chandler in NY. Same could be argued for Sacramento.

Third, we still don't know what the Spurs offered or even what they were willing to match for RJ. Were they interested in matching a 5 year guaranteed deal? Over $10m/per deal? RJ made clear we was looking for a long term deal, but the Spurs never really stated what they would offer, simply that they would like him back.

Fourth, add the Blazers who handed out a $33m/5 year deal for Wesley Matthews. The Suns after moving Amare had a huge trade exception that they decided to spend on Hedo + pieces. Same for Toronto after the Bosh deal. Utah also had some room after Boozer left, picking up Bell in the process.

So, you know, the fact that two days ago we were scrapping the bottom of the barrel for a starting SF, and we still are to see if we can pick up a backup pretty much tells you that the market was very active for those guys.
Which makes the lack of demand for RJ even more glaring.

[ElNono]

Honestly I can't say anything about pre-arrangement. I'm suspicious, but I'm not sure of course.

But let's assume that there's no pre-arranged deal between 2 sides. I think that Jefferson's value is more than MLE at the moment, it's obvious. 4 years/32M is very logical and fair deal for both sides. It may be a little more then MLE, but we should offer more then MLE to outbid the potential suitors.

Wouldn't you wait for potential suitors to offer something though? I mean, you always have bird rights and you always can match an offer.

This is exactly what Utah did with Matthews. Eventually deciding he was not worth matching and picking Bell instead.