Top Secret America

[LnGrrrR]

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/a-hidden-world-growing-beyond-control/

Some snippets:



Underscoring the seriousness of these issues are the conclusions of retired Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, who was asked last year to review the method for tracking the Defense Department's most sensitive programs. Vines, who once commanded 145,000 troops in Iraq and is familiar with complex problems, was stunned by what he discovered.

"I'm not aware of any agency with the authority, responsibility or a process in place to coordinate all these interagency and commercial activities," he said in an interview. "The complexity of this system defies description."




CIA Director Leon Panetta, who was also interviewed by The Post last week, said he's begun mapping out a five-year plan for his agency because the levels of spending since 9/11 are not sustainable. "Particularly with these deficits, we're going to hit the wall. I want to be prepared for that," he said. "Frankly, I think everyone in intelligence ought to be doing that."


Government is government, prone to inflation and mission creep. Should the Intelligence Agency be protected by its confidential status? Is there a way that the public can determine if our money is being spent well on our intelligence community without exposing vital information?

Look at the amount of information they're trying to process:



But improvements have been overtaken by volume at the ODNI, as the increased flow of intelligence data overwhelms the system's ability to analyze and use it. Every day, collection systems at the National Security Agency intercept and store 1.7 billion e-mails, phone calls and other types of communications. The NSA sorts a fraction of those into 70 separate databases. The same problem bedevils every other intelligence agency, none of which have enough analysts and translators for all this work.

[Winehole23]

Thanks for posting this, LNGR.

[Winehole23]

Inasmuch as the war on terror basically amounts to a retrofitting of the national security state, we should be surprised neither by the cost, nor the redundancy, nor the bureaucratic bloat.

[Winehole23]

The shadow government grows apace.

[Winehole23]

(Our fear and insecurity were its midwife.)

[LnGrrrR]

Waiting for the board conservatives to decry this obvious increase in the size of the government and lack of transparency in spending...

[Winehole23]

(Don't hold your breath.)

[LnGrrrR]

Surely, their principles will shine through, and they will rail against this unwarranted expansion of our government.

[Ignignokt]

Waiting for the board conservatives to decry this obvious increase in the size of the government and lack of transparency in spending...

I'll do it on the basis that you decry the rest of the increase in the scope and size of government.

[Ignignokt]

Where's winehole?

[Ignignokt]

He's probably out eating a sandwich and prancing around like a fairy?

[Ignignokt]

(The pot calling the kettle black routine never gets old)

[LnGrrrR]

Ha! I will say Ig, an admirable impression. I don't quite see why you need me to decry government spending in all other areas before you are willing. There are some areas that I feel government spending is acceptable in. (Some R&D for instance.) Others, I do not feel are acceptable. I'm fine with intelligence spending, but I think this is far and away too much. I also had issues with the bank bailout, seeing reasons both for and against. All that should matter neither here not there on whether you personally support or disapprove of the amoount of spending and bureaucracy that are now invested in the intelligence community.

[Ignignokt]

Ha! I will say Ig, an admirable impression. I don't quite see why you need me to decry government spending in all other areas before you are willing. There are some areas that I feel government spending is acceptable in. (Some R&D for instance.) Others, I do not feel are acceptable. I'm fine with intelligence spending, but I think this is far and away too much. I also had issues with the bank bailout, seeing reasons both for and against. All that should matter neither here not there on whether you personally support or disapprove of the amoount of spending and bureaucracy that are now invested in the intelligence community.

THis will do.

And, I can't approve or dissaprove on something which i have yet to research myself. As a whole, the military needs to scale down it's budget. Yet, it is not hypocritical for conservatives to be pro military spending, since it is mandated by the constitution. Still, i don't think tradition is always correct, none of us do. I would like to see all sectors of govt shrunk and be left up to the states. States can't print money so they are bound by budgets, unlike the federal govt.

[LnGrrrR]

Admirable thoughts Ig. I'd suggest checking out the article, it's an interesting read. Of course, I might find it more interesting because I've worked (in a relatively limited fashion) within that community. I can definitely say that the technology of Taclanes has certainly increased the SIPR footprint on many bases. Before it took kiv-7s to encrypt, and keying was on a quarterly basis.

Now, that general or colonel can put a Taclane right at his desk, and encrypt/decrypt there, only needing to rekey it ever year.

[Winehole23]

He's probably out eating a sandwich and prancing around like a fairy? Not even close.

I'll give it to you though: you have an active imagination.

[LnGrrrR]

You would think that our national intelligence community's effectiveness would be an important topic. This board gives no indication of that, however.

[spursncowboys]

Not even close.

I'll give it to you though: you have an active imagination.

prancing around like a sandwich eating a fairy?

[admiralsnackbar]

You would think that our national intelligence community's effectiveness would be an important topic. This board gives no indication of that, however.

Get with the program -- sandwich-eating fairies that disrupt your chosen narrative are a much more pressing issue.

[LnGrrrR]

At least Ig is willing to say how he feels.

[admiralsnackbar]

At least Ig is willing to say how he feels.

Lonley? :depressed

[LnGrrrR]

Lonley? :depressed

:lol After rereading that post, not sure it came out quite right. I mean, at least Ig has the guts to be consistent with his big gov animus. I'm still waiting for other anti-big-gov guys on this board to explain if they're for or against, and reasoning behind it.

[spursncowboys]

So yes, bravo to the Post. Truly. But why do they tend to notice government waste only when it applies to national security? The Post and other liberal organs have been quick to record how much the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (particularly Iraq) have cost taxpayers. But they seem much less curious about waste, duplication, and even fraud in other areas of government spending.

If they need ideas about where else to look, they can consult Martin Gross, author of a series of books about the “government racket” (that’s one of his titles actually). It may interest the Post to learn that there are 70 different programs in 13 different federal agencies addressing the problem of teen drug abuse. There are 160 different job-training programs, 50 homeless-assistance programs, 27 programs to avert teen pregnancy, and 90 programs on early-childhood development. According to a recent Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, “at least 12 federal departments and agencies were responsible for hundreds of community development programs that assist distressed urban communities and their residents. Historically, there is but little coordination among the agencies, posing an unnecessary burden on communities seeking assistance.” That is to say nothing of the taxpayers.

Nor do federal departments and agencies even know where all of the money goes. In National Suicide, Gross recounts, “In one recent year, the federal government could not account for $24.5 billion it spent. Buried in the Treasury Department’s ‘Unreconciled Transactions Affecting the Change in Net Position,’ is the fact that the enormous sum is unreconciled -- that is, it is missing.”

This is rich: The GAO also found that “the IRS could not verify $3 billion of its expenses” as the agency “had not kept its own books and records with the same degree of accuracy it expects from taxpayers.”

Medicare fraud alone accounts for an estimated $60 billion annually according to the Wall Street Journal. A Philadelphia cardiologist, convicted of defrauding the program to the tune of half a million dollars, explained to a Senate committee, “The problem is that no one is watching. The system is extremely easy to evade. The forms I sent in were absolutely outrageous.”

It doesn’t surprise conservatives to find waste, duplication, and gross overspending in the military and security agencies of government. We know that this is inevitable in government programs. As Milton Friedman said, “No one washes a rented car.” It’s not at all clear that the Post understands the larger lesson.

Would love to get the opinions on the moderate libs and the socialists in here.

[boutons_deux]

For Self-Licking Ice Cream Cone, a Terror Topping

Saturday 24 July 2010

by: Ray McGovern, t r u t h o u t | Op-Ed

The US intelligence budget grew like Topsey to a publicly announced $75 billion last year - two and a half times its $30 billion figure on September 10, 2001. Even so, the $75 billion figure doesn't include the cost of many military and domestic counterterrorism programs.

( where are Cato and Heritage and Repugs when we really need them to whine about unfunded budgets & deficits? :lol )

The Post shows clearly that the post-9/11 environment has been a boon for defense and intelligence contractors, who fattened up at the government feeding trough before trying to show their worth in the mission of "defeating transnational violent extremists," like al-Qaeda, the Taliban, and others too many to mention.

With the Afghan war alone, corporate strategic planning can count on the budget as reasonably secure for at least four more years in view of the low-key announcement this week of a withdrawal target date sliding to 2014, though even that was caveatted with the familiar adjective "conditions-based."

Your tax dollars at work and a huge, enduring welfare program for contractors.

http://www.truth-out.org/for-self-licking-ice-cream-cone-a-terror-topping61659?print

[LnGrrrR]

Would love to get the opinions on the moderate libs and the socialists in here.

If you've read any posts from myself, WH23, or Marcus Bryant, you can assume we're against increasing the size and scope of intelligence agencies, as it will lead to greater civil liberty violations.

Why do all the board conservatives insist on demanding to know what everyone one else thinks before giving their own? Do their values only exist contra to what liberals think?

If you're a conservative, you tend to think that

A) Government agencies are inefficient
B) Making the gov larger is much easier than reducing it
C) Government agencies are prone to political abuse
D) More government means more taxpayer money to fund it

Am I wrong on any of these four? If not, which of the four don't apply here?

[Yonivore]

LnGrrrR, if you're worried about American civil liberties and not the terrorist's civil liberties, maybe your concern is misplaced.

Google is ‘Obama’s Halliburton’ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/23/googleburton/)

Bill Lets Obama Turn Off the Internet (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/07/bill-lets-obama-turn-off-the-internet)

Not only has Obama continued Bush-era intelligence programs, he's embarked on a few of his own...more domestically-minded initiatives.

Where are the Traitors from the New York Times when you really need them?

[spursncowboys]

lngrrrr: did you read the article i posted?

[spursncowboys]

If they need ideas about where else to look, they can consult Martin Gross, author of a series of books about the “government racket” (that’s one of his titles actually). It may interest the Post to learn that there are 70 different programs in 13 different federal agencies addressing the problem of teen drug abuse. There are 160 different job-training programs, 50 homeless-assistance programs, 27 programs to avert teen pregnancy, and 90 programs on early-childhood development. According to a recent Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, “at least 12 federal departments and agencies were responsible for hundreds of community development programs that assist distressed urban communities and their residents. Historically, there is but little coordination among the agencies, posing an unnecessary burden on communities seeking assistance.” That is to say nothing of the taxpayers.

[spursncowboys]

In National Suicide, Gross recounts, “In one recent year, the federal government could not account for $24.5 billion it spent. Buried in the Treasury Department’s ‘Unreconciled Transactions Affecting the Change in Net Position,’ is the fact that the enormous sum is unreconciled -- that is, it is missing.”

[spursncowboys]

The GAO also found that “the IRS could not verify $3 billion of its expenses” as the agency “had not kept its own books and records with the same degree of accuracy it expects from taxpayers.”

[spursncowboys]

Medicare fraud alone accounts for an estimated $60 billion annually according to the Wall Street Journal.

[LnGrrrR]

LnGrrrR, if you're worried about American civil liberties and not the terrorist's civil liberties, maybe your concern is misplaced.

Google is ‘Obama’s Halliburton’ (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/23/googleburton/)

Bill Lets Obama Turn Off the Internet (http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/2009/04/07/bill-lets-obama-turn-off-the-internet)

Not only has Obama continued Bush-era intelligence programs, he's embarked on a few of his own...more domestically-minded initiatives.

Where are the Traitors from the New York Times when you really need them?

I"m just as pissed at what Obama is doing. If you noticed in another thread, I said if I'd have known Obama would be so atrocious towards civil liberties, I would have voted Ron Paul.

[spursncowboys]

A Philadelphia cardiologist, convicted of defrauding the program to the tune of half a million dollars, explained to a Senate committee, “The problem is that no one is watching. The system is extremely easy to evade. The forms I sent in were absolutely outrageous.”

[Yonivore]

I"m just as pissed at what Obama is doing. If you noticed in another thread, I said if I'd have known Obama would be so atrocious towards civil liberties, I would have voted Ron Paul.
Sorry, I don't follow you around.

Obama has been a disaster on many fronts. Many have come to regret that vote.

[LnGrrrR]

SNC, that post is bs, because it uses kid-school logic. "Sure, the military has some bad apples, but look over at THESE bad apples!"

As well, due to the SECRECY of the program, there's clearly going to be MUCH less transparency on what kind of budget it has, and what projects that budget is going to.

Pointing out that other programs waste money says nothing to the efficacy of expanding THIS program. Even if we eliminated the waste in those OTHER programs, would that mean that we were kosher with the increasing size of our nat. int. agencies? From the snippet you posted, the author doesn't say, because he's not really addressing the issue but raising strawmen.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that programs that assist poor urban centers don't have quite the power that our national intelligence community has, right? The potential for abuse is much greater.

[spursncowboys]

LNG, the actual post was about how the liberal media refuses to look into the waste of govt programs all around. You read my agreement at waste in any govt agency/program. So are you just as appalled at the lack of transparency and waste from our govt in general. Are you going to call for the reduction of all these other wasteful programs, and yes including the IRS?

[LnGrrrR]

LNG, the actual post was about how the liberal media refuses to look into the waste of govt programs all around. You read my agreement at waste in any govt agency/program. So are you just as appalled at the lack of transparency and waste from our govt in general. Are you going to call for the reduction of all these other wasteful programs, and yes including the IRS?

To be honest, I haven't done the research on every other gov't program. Is there fraud and waste in these programs? Probably. The question is whether a) we could reduce it easily and b) whether reducing that would take away certain functions that we shouldn't.

I'm all for reducing waste and synchonizing the operations of similar agencies. I also know how motherfunking hard that truly is, and what a pain in the ass, which is why nobody usually attempts it. (For instance, Pearl Harbor and Hickam AFB are combining into a Joint Base, and it is a huge pain, trying to determine responsibility, functions, etc.)

I believe I have read some info on the IRS, and from what I've read, they could probably do with some decreased payroll. As well, if we could get rid of even 10% of our specific tax cuts/incentives/etc it'd probably make it much easier to file. Easier said than done, of course.

[Marcus Bryant]

For conservatism circa now, this is to be cheered.

[LnGrrrR]

For conservatism circa now, this is to be cheered.

Or, at the least, ignored it seems. The fact that a part of our government is growing at a rapid pace, a part that has the ability to spy on Americans, is meeted with an enthusiastic shrug as long as they're fightin' dem terrrurrrists.

[Winehole23]

http://billmoyers.com/2014/02/21/anatomy-of-the-deep-state/

[boutons_deux]

"What America lacks is a figure with the serene self-confidence to tell us that the twin idols of national security and corporate power are outworn dogmas that have nothing more to offer us. Thus disenthralled, the people themselves will unravel the Deep State with surprising speed."

oh yeah? when? how? first step?

the people? :lol powerless against the corporatocracy and its $Bs per year to fund candidates, buy politicians, disenfranchise "the people"