Another reason to hate on HOAs

[Blake]

SAN ANTONIO – Most suburban San Antonians have to pay hundreds in yearly dues to their homeowners’ association (HOA). This money goes to all sorts of things that are supposed to help beautify and improve the neighborhood, which - in turn - increases property values for the homeowners. So everybody benefits.

Homeowners in the Longs Creek neighborhood contacted the News 4 WOAI Trouble Shooters because they felt the money they paid their HOA was being terribly misspent. Longs Creek is located on the North Side near Madison High School. With over 1,300 homes, it’s one of the biggest associations in town.

Shortly before we aired this story the homeowners delivered a flyer to every neighbor telling them about our investigation and urging them to watch our story on TV or at WOAI.com.

The neighbors wanted everyone to know exactly where their dues were going, so they also presented their findings at a recent HOA meeting that got so out of control some people were threatened with arrests.

"People are outraged," exclaimed Peggy Sue Wilson-Schmueckle. She’s the homeowner leading the fight to rid the association of what she calls gross mismanagement of funds by the board. “Once we uncovered it and did an audit, people were very outraged. They want them [the current board] to resign.”

The information we uncovered explain why the homeowners are so bent out of shape. Records detail board meetings at nice restaurants; meetings that were not open to the public. We also found a document showing a $4,200 expense paid to the board president's son-in-law for brush work he did in the neighborhood. Additional records showed the HOA donated thousands of dollars to random charities. The HOA even gave more than $1,300 to a group of HOA lawyers to help them lobby the legislature.

The homeowners paid for all of it.

more...

http://www.woai.com/mostpopular/story/Neighbors-say-homeowners-association-misspending/6KBq3Q54Z0S2qDcApEP2fg.cspx

[Wild Cobra]

The age old known fact that people abuse power. That's why we need less governing entities in our life, not more.

[ploto]

PTA's work the same way. The kids are out peddling candy and wrapping paper that the officers use to go to some annual meeting in Boston.

[DarrinS]

"People are outraged," exclaimed Peggy Sue Wilson-Schmueckle.


I'd be outraged if that was my name.





The information we uncovered explain why the homeowners are so bent out of shape. Records detail board meetings at nice restaurants; meetings that were not open to the public. We also found a document showing a $4,200 expense paid to the board president's son-in-law for brush work he did in the neighborhood. Additional records showed the HOA donated thousands of dollars to random charities. The HOA even gave more than $1,300 to a group of HOA lawyers to help them lobby the legislature.



Is that really an outrageous amount of money? And what if the son-in-law did $4,200 worth of work?

[Drachen]

A few years ago, when we were buying a house, my wife convinced me to lean strongly towards looking at houses outside of an HOA. I did so kicking and screaming because I didn't want to live next door to some moron who was too lazy to mow his lawn, or someone (notice I am not saying moron necessarily) who wanted to express their artistic freedom on the outside of their house. I knew that I, at worst, mow my lawn every two weeks and had no desire to paint my house purple with dark red trim so, what me worry? After reading these articles and hearing about the troubles that one of my friends has with the HOA at his townhouse, I am really glad that my wife stood up to me on this. The only "problem house" we have had was one where the "grass" grew over my head, but it was about 15 houses away from me, and as soon as we called the city (didn't think about it until very late), they came out a few weeks later and chopped all of the crap down. For the most part, I am the one who looks like the lazy guy who won't mow the lawn when I get busy and have to go two weeks in between. Most of the people in my neighborhood take personal responsibility for their yards and they are quite nice. They keep their houses up, and none of my fears have really materialized. Not to say that they won't, but considering the alternative . . .

[CosmicCowboy]

A few years ago, when we were buying a house, my wife convinced me to lean strongly towards looking at houses outside of an HOA. I did so kicking and screaming because I didn't want to live next door to some moron who was too lazy to mow his lawn, or someone (notice I am not saying moron necessarily) who wanted to express their artistic freedom on the outside of their house. I knew that I, at worst, mow my lawn every two weeks and had no desire to paint my house purple with dark red trim so, what me worry? After reading these articles and hearing about the troubles that one of my friends has with the HOA at his townhouse, I am really glad that my wife stood up to me on this. The only "problem house" we have had was one where the "grass" grew over my head, but it was about 15 houses away from me, and as soon as we called the city (didn't think about it until very late), they came out a few weeks later and chopped all of the crap down. For the most part, I am the one who looks like the lazy guy who won't mow the lawn when I get busy and have to go two weeks in between. Most of the people in my neighborhood take personal responsibility for their yards and they are quite nice. They keep their houses up, and none of my fears have really materialized. Not to say that they won't, but considering the alternative . . .

I live in an area "in town" on the north side with big lots and no restrictions. It has it's upside/downside. When I put in my barn/arena I didn't have to fight a HOA. All I had to do was get permits/inspections from the city.

Unfortunately, when a coyote bought the house/lot three doors down and moved a bunch of crap travel trailers into the back for overnight wetback layovers there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. There might be 20-30 of them at a time wandering the neighborhood and going to the bus stop. My house got broken into twice on snatch and grabs. Building and zoning, SAPD, INS...nobody gave a fuck. Fortunately I think he finally got busted "on the road" and got out of the business.

[spursncowboys]

I would have planted an ied in his yard.
j/k
no i'm not
yes i am

[Johnson]

my old neighborhood started up a voluntary HOA... no dues required.

The only reason it started up was that the vacant corner lots where our neighborhood meets the main drag - were going to be sold for subsidized housing. Our neighborhood did not want subsidized housing right next door.

It was successful in stopping the welfare housing from coming.

There are no rules or anything that I know of. Some people have 2 months grass growth on their front yards, but that's about it. If you have any complaints, like if someone has old refrigerators in their front yard, or cars on blocks, then I guess you can complain to the HOA.

[Blake]

The only "problem house" we have had was one where the "grass" grew over my head, but it was about 15 houses away from me, and as soon as we called the city (didn't think about it until very late), they came out a few weeks later and chopped all of the crap down.

If you are still in the city limits (at least in San Antonio), grass over 12 inches is considered a code violation. No reason to have a slow moving HOA try to send a letter when the city can do it and enforce it faster.

Just another reason for me to hate on the current state of the HOAs.

[Blake]

Is that really an outrageous amount of money? And what if the son-in-law did $4,200 worth of work?

Sounds like a lot to me for some brush work, but even so, if it's a justifiable amount, then the mother-in-law should have no problem being honest about it to the home owners and to the trouble shooters.

Declining to comment about it does her no favors.

[Blake]

I live in an area "in town" on the north side with big lots and no restrictions. It has it's upside/downside. When I put in my barn/arena I didn't have to fight a HOA. All I had to do was get permits/inspections from the city.

Unfortunately, when a coyote bought the house/lot three doors down and moved a bunch of crap travel trailers into the back for overnight wetback layovers there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. There might be 20-30 of them at a time wandering the neighborhood and going to the bus stop. My house got broken into twice on snatch and grabs. Building and zoning, SAPD, INS...nobody gave a fuck. Fortunately I think he finally got busted "on the road" and got out of the business.

I can pretty much tell you from my experience that in this situation, the HOA would have gone through all of those city entities first before trying to figure out whether or not those trailers would be violations of the covenants/deed restrications and what to do about them if they were.

[Blake]

The age old known fact that people abuse power. That's why we need less governing entities in our life, not more.

Actually, we need governing entities make better laws regarding what HOAs can and can't do.

[Blake]

PTA's work the same way. The kids are out peddling candy and wrapping paper that the officers use to go to some annual meeting in Boston.

I think girl scouts selling cookies sucks in that same manner, but the difference here is that if you want to buy a home in SA, almost any home built as long as 15 years ago (maybe even longer) now forces you to join the HOA and pay dues as part of the contract.

[Blake]

my old neighborhood started up a voluntary HOA... no dues required.

that's how it should be, in my opinion.



There are no rules or anything that I know of. Some people have 2 months grass growth on their front yards, but that's about it. If you have any complaints, like if someone has old refrigerators in their front yard, or cars on blocks, then I guess you can complain to the HOA.

old refrigerators in yard, junked vehicles and overgrown grass are all city code violations and anyone at any given time can complain to the city's code compliance department about them.

[LnGrrrR]

What BS. Where does a city get the right to tell me I can't put junk on my lawn? Give me liberty or give me death!

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, we need governing entities make better laws regarding what HOAs can and can't do.
Maybe you want the government to wipe your ass when you take a shit too?

[Stringer_Bell]

Maybe you want the government to wipe your ass when you take a shit too?

Preach on! HOA's wouldn't be in positions to exploit homeowners if the people didn't agree to live in the area. People should wise up and understand that if they want to live in a specific neighborhood, they better be willing to put up with EVEN MORE bullshit bureaucracy and taxes and fees than they already do. It's fair and it's American!

Let's go freedom! *clap clap clap* Let's go freedom!

[CosmicCowboy]

Preach on! HOA's wouldn't be in positions to exploit homeowners if the people didn't agree to live in the area. People should wise up and understand that if they want to live in a specific neighborhood, they better be willing to put up with EVEN MORE bullshit bureaucracy and taxes and fees than they already do. It's fair and it's American!

Let's go freedom! *clap clap clap* Let's go freedom!

And your point is?

[Blake]

And your point is?

maybe you are reading differently, but the basic point I got from that post was that WC is an idiot.

[fraga]

Who's watching the Watch Men???

[Wild Cobra]

maybe you are reading differently, but the basic point I got from that post was that WC is an idiot.
Was my point to simple for you to understand?

Where do you draw the line of having government protect you from your own stupid decisions?

[Stringer_Bell]

Was my point to simple for you to understand?

Where do you draw the line of having government protect you from your own stupid decisions?

Are you a big fan of JP Morgan? Honest question, not trolling this time.

[Wild Cobra]

Are you a big fan of JP Morgan? Honest question, not trolling this time.
No.

[elbamba]

I guess you are either going to have your idiot neighbors telling you how to mow your lawn or idiots in Austin. Why some people preach about the evils of big government yet somehow don't seem to notice that it is the big government that is protecting the HOA is beyound me.

[Blake]

Was my point to simple for you to understand?

Where do you draw the line of having government protect you from your own stupid decisions?

Since when is buying a house a stupid decision?

Seems to me you want no government intervention on anything at all.

[Stringer_Bell]

No.

You might want to read up on him a bit, I think you'd agree with a lot of what he did FOR and TO our country - his philosophy, his tactics. I think he's just as much a Founder as the originals. :tu

[Wild Cobra]

Since when is buying a house a stupid decision?

Seems to me you want no government intervention on anything at all.
If you don't like the HOA for the community, buy elsewhere. Be informed. Stop asking for the government to impede these. Some communities set up their own HOA's. Unless you can craft one that completely keeps the free will of the people and communities intact, fuck the idea of more regulation.

[Wild Cobra]

You might want to read up on him a bit, I think you'd agree with a lot of what he did FOR and TO our country - his philosophy, his tactics. I think he's just as much a Founder as the originals. :tu
Oh, you mean the man. I assumed you meant the corporation.

I know little about him. Not enough to make a sound decision to that question.

[Blake]

If you don't like the HOA for the community, buy elsewhere. Be informed. Stop asking for the government to impede these. Some communities set up their own HOA's. Unless you can craft one that completely keeps the free will of the people and communities intact, fuck the idea of more regulation.

If you want to buy a new house in a community basically anywhere in the metro areas of the United States, you basically have no choice but to join and pay dues to an HOA as part of deed restriction.

If you buy the house outright with your own money, but fail to pay the several hundred bucks of HOA dues, that HOA can come in and auction off your house right from under your nose.

It's why I am calling for HOA reform. Unfortunately for those of us who hate it, it's people like Senator John J Carona, owner of the largest HOA company in the country, that keep allowing these auctions happening to people like senior citizens and even military personnel.

Get informed, dumbfuck.

[LnGrrrR]

WC, a question. Say, theoretically, every major city has large portions of the city locked up by HOAs. Would you say it's better to carve up those HOAs to enable greater liberty for people to settle where they wish, or should the will of the people to craft HOAs have precedence, forcing those who wish to live without HOAs into less desirable areas until the free market self-corrects?

[Veterinarian]

Was my point to simple for you to understand?

Where do you draw the line of having government protect you from your own stupid decisions?

It's too with two o's. It's always important to use proper grammar and spelling when condescending. Makes it more effective.

[Wild Cobra]

Get informed, dumbfuck.
You should read the constitution sometime.

I'm not saying unethical things happen, but as long as there is a market for that supply of housing, it will remain. People are willing to live under those rules and expect their neighbors to keep certain community standard. You can find places without restriction. Buy your own land and have a contractor build you a house if you must.

Back to something I already stated. If you can come up with a law or regulation that protects the consumer as you like, without impeding the freedom of association of others, then I'm game. However, if you just carelessly want the government to protect you from your own stupidity, then just do it without curtailing other people's freedoms. Else... you are not a man with an American heart.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, a question. Say, theoretically, every major city has large portions of the city locked up by HOAs. Would you say it's better to carve up those HOAs to enable greater liberty for people to settle where they wish, or should the will of the people to craft HOAs have precedence, forcing those who wish to live without HOAs into less desirable areas until the free market self-corrects?
I'm not saying HOA's are a good thing. You miss my point. I'm saying they are legal, and the demand for living in such communities keep them going. If major portions survive the free market, them a major number of people must be willing to live under such governance.

Seriously now. How much should the states curtail our freedom of association? If you don't like it, don't buy in. When enough people refuse to buy such properties, the rules will crumble or change.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm not saying HOA's are a good thing. You miss my point. I'm saying they are legal, and the demand for living in such communities keep them going. If major portions survive the free market, them a major number of people must be willing to live under such governance.

Seriously now. How much should the states curtail our freedom of association? If you don't like it, don't buy in. When enough people refuse to buy such properties, the rules will crumble or change.

So, option 2 under my hypothetical. That's cool, was just wondering.

Would there ever be a limit you could see where you might change your mind? Say, for instance, if 100% of a city was locked up by HOAs, and the closest non-HOA area was 20 miles outside the city. Should said person just have to buy on the outskirts and hope that enough people change their mind about HOAs?

(Also, are these HOAs supported by legislation? In other words, how easy is it to dismantle an HOA?)

[elbamba]

Since when is buying a house a stupid decision?

Seems to me you want no government intervention on anything at all.

Actually, he seems to be ok with government intervention when it comes to establishing laws that protect HOA. He simply is not in favor of establishing laws that protect the people. HOA can create stupid laws and regulations that strip away the HO rights and the government supports that and WC is cool with this. However, if the government tries to protect people, this is when the government steps out of line. See HOA are smart and we the People are stupid.

[Stringer_Bell]

I'm not saying HOA's are a good thing. You miss my point. I'm saying they are legal, and the demand for living in such communities keep them going. If major portions survive the free market, them a major number of people must be willing to live under such governance.

Seriously now. How much should the states curtail our freedom of association? If you don't like it, don't buy in. When enough people refuse to buy such properties, the rules will crumble or change.

Just because something is "legal" doesn't mean it deserves or should be defended. Slavery and voting restrictions on Americans were "legal," and I'm not sure the demand ever sank lower than it would take for demand to live in cities (in which most communities have HOAs you can't escape, especially for first-time homeowners) to fall enough to change HOA laws.

I definitely like the troll job on this topic tho, it's driving home the point that if people don't like HOA, they need to mobolize and do something about it. I know you wouldn't agree that there's ever a reason why HOAs deserve to take a person's house. Oh, and fuck "association fees," neighbors can take care of neighbors without paying some big wigs to send out letters to remind everyone to mow their lawns.

[Blake]

You should read the constitution sometime.

done.


I'm not saying unethical things happen, but as long as there is a market for that supply of housing, it will remain. People are willing to live under those rules and expect their neighbors to keep certain community standard. You can find places without restriction. Buy your own land and have a contractor build you a house if you must.

buy my own land? I don't want to have to move past city limits to the county.

get informed about housing communities in metro areas.


Back to something I already stated. If you can come up with a law or regulation that protects the consumer as you like, without impeding the freedom of association of others, then I'm game. However, if you just carelessly want the government to protect you from your own stupidity, then just do it without curtailing other people's freedoms. Else... you are not a man with an American heart.

just curious, what's your constitutional opinion of the Civil Rights Act of 64?

[boutons_deux]

"a man with an American heart."

what a phrase maker! :lol

WTF is an "American heart". Is that different from a human heart?

[angrydude]

they can auction your fully paid-off house just because you didn't join the association? Seems pretty unconscionable to me. I'd be shocked if that actually stood up in court. If it does, then it's the govt.'s fault for enforcing it. Offering protections from crap like this is what the govt. should actually be good for.

[Wild Cobra]

Actually, he seems to be ok with government intervention when it comes to establishing laws that protect HOA. He simply is not in favor of establishing laws that protect the people. HOA can create stupid laws and regulations that strip away the HO rights and the government supports that and WC is cool with this. However, if the government tries to protect people, this is when the government steps out of line. See HOA are smart and we the People are stupid.
Careful...

Your stupidity is showing!

[Wild Cobra]

Just because something is "legal" doesn't mean it deserves or should be defended.
True.

Did you miss the part where I said I'm OK with regulations and laws on this topic as long as it doesn't infringe of free association?

[elbamba]

Careful...

Your stupidity is showing!

Well if that doesn't solidify your point I don't know what will.

[Stringer_Bell]

True.

Did you miss the part where I said I'm OK with regulations and laws on this topic as long as it doesn't infringe of free association?

Nope, I got that...but it's not exactly free association when you have to pay dues, is it?

@ B_D: I'm pretty sure "American heart" was a sarcastic remark. Most of us have high school educations and can discern historical myths from how it more or less actually happened.

[DMX7]

just curious, what's your constitutional opinion of the Civil Rights Act of 64?

Uh oh... :rollin

[Yonivore]

Ooops.

[Wild Cobra]

--- deleted ---

Moved to the correct thread.

[Blake]

they can auction your fully paid-off house just because you didn't join the association? Seems pretty unconscionable to me. I'd be shocked if that actually stood up in court. If it does, then it's the govt.'s fault for enforcing it. Offering protections from crap like this is what the govt. should actually be good for.

not quite.

If you buy a home in any newly built subdivision, you are forced by contract to join the HOA and pay annual dues.

If your house is paid off and you fail to pay your dues, then the HOA can come in and auction off your house.

The reason they don't try to auction it off if it's not paid off is because 'big bank' tells the smaller HOA there is no freakin way they are going to sell the house.

[Wild Cobra]

Nope, I got that...but it's not exactly free association when you have to pay dues, is it?

I mean the constitutional meaning of having the right to freely associating with other, in a group.

Consider this. If you wish to have legislation, a simple one that enforces what good HOA's have:

1) Do not allow locked items in the CC&Rs that cannot be changed.

2) Every owner gets a vote. Votes are for who operates, fees, duties, etc, including if a majority wishes to dissolve the HOA, it happens.

[Yonivore]

Nope, I got that...but it's not exactly free association when you have to pay dues, is it?
Did you sign the contract or not?

No one is compelled to buy a home that is part of a unreasonable H.O.A.

That's the free association to which I would refer you.

[Stringer_Bell]

I mean the constitutional meaning of having the right to freely associating with other, in a group.

So you agree that the way the Constitution is used to take away people's homes is a bad thing. The Constition can be interpreted in ways that have a negative effect on people, and just because something is "legal" doesn't mean we should support it. We, you and I, can say "Let's get the laws changed" but we also have to be realistic and recognize that certain politicians have their hand in the cookie jar and would fight against change using their knowledge of the systems they helped create.

We could brainstorm a just and fair law that stops HOAs from getting out of hand while offering the option to "freely associate" if it's really that important, but "we the people" is a myth unless we dump all the assholes in office - they're pretty powerful and good liars so that's a chore in itself.

[angrydude]

not quite.

If you buy a home in any newly built subdivision, you are forced by contract to join the HOA and pay annual dues.

If your house is paid off and you fail to pay your dues, then the HOA can come in and auction off your house.

The reason they don't try to auction it off if it's not paid off is because 'big bank' tells the smaller HOA there is no freakin way they are going to sell the house.

that sounds even more unconscionable then. You can't just put whatever you want in a contract if there is no way to bargain out of it and expect a judicial rubber stamp. Especially in this case where from what you're saying you can't buy a new home in an urban area without one of these ghastly conditions.

[elbamba]

I mean the constitutional meaning of having the right to freely associating with other, in a group.


There is no constitutional right to freely associate with one group or another.

There is a right of the people to peacefully assemble, and petition the government for redress of grievances as laid out in the first Amendment.

Of course there is also a constitutional right to not be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

[Stringer_Bell]

that sounds even more unconscionable then. You can't just put whatever you want in a contract if there is no way to bargain out of it and expect a judicial rubber stamp. Especially in this case where from what you're saying you can't buy a new home in an urban area without one of these ghastly conditions.

The simple, dare I say "conservative," solution is to not live there if you don't like the contract.

I wonder what happens if people altogether stop refusing to pay into HOAs or refuse to buy new houses that require they belong to an HOA. :wow

If the Tea Party can organize, surely homeowners can too right?

[Blake]

The simple, dare I say "conservative," solution is to not live there if you don't like the contract.

of course.

problem is, the places where you can choose not to live that don't have mandatory HOA membership and fees is getting fewer and farther between.


I wonder what happens if people altogether stop refusing to pay into HOAs or refuse to buy new houses that require they belong to an HOA. :wow

If the Tea Party can organize, surely homeowners can too right?

On the surface, buying a house in a neighborhood that has a mandatory HOA seems like a good thing, or at the very least, a harmless thing.

In reality, it's a money making venture for companies like Associa and the home owner gets very little back out of his/her annual dues.

IMO, the general public still doesn't really know what HOAs do or don't do with the funds collected or to the owners that don't pay up. I think the more stories that come out about homes getting ripped out of owners' hands and mismanagement of HOA funds, the closer we get to legislation.

[Wild Cobra]

There is no constitutional right to freely associate with one group or another.

See Freedom of Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States#Freedom_of_assoc iation).

Courts have ruled various freedoms associated with the first amendment. This freedom extends to the group making their own rules for operations. Don't like the rules, have a vote and have them changed.

[Blake]

Don't like the rules, have a vote and have them changed.


Maybe you want the government to wipe your ass when you take a shit too?

[LnGrrrR]

2) Every owner gets a vote. Votes are for who operates, fees, duties, etc, including if a majority wishes to dissolve the HOA, it happens.

Is it that easy to disassemble an HOA? Or is it locked in by regulations, laws, etc? (Not a "gotcha", I seriously don't know.)

[xrayzebra]

HOA's are a pain. But they serve the purpose for those that want to tell
you how to live in a house you paid for yourself. And make a very good living
for those that manage the HOA's. Our's is small, but still a pain.

Hey CC, ever heard of the Border Patrol? They just might be interested in
a safe house. What happen to the big ranch in South Texas?

[Blake]

Is it that easy to disassemble an HOA? Or is it locked in by regulations, laws, etc? (Not a "gotcha", I seriously don't know.)

In most cases, you need roughly 80% home owner approval for HOA dissolution before filing the proper legal paperwork with local land offices.

[LnGrrrR]

How long do these contracts last? Let me illustrate with another hypothetical: I sign with an HOA, get a house, etc etc. The HOA is good for a year or two, then they start failing on the duties they've outlined in the contract (whatever those are *shrug*). Do I have the right to "opt out" or terminate the contract?

What if I just change my mind? Does the contract last until the end of time or what? I don't get how an HOA can own an entire area. Do they own the land as well?

[xrayzebra]

In most cases, you need roughly 80% home owner approval for HOA dissolution before filing the proper legal paperwork with local land offices.


Either that or everyone just quits paying their fees. Which has happened
in some areas.

[elbamba]

See Freedom of Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States#Freedom_of_assoc iation).

Courts have ruled various freedoms associated with the first amendment. This freedom extends to the group making their own rules for operations. Don't like the rules, have a vote and have them changed.

You claim courts have made various rulings on the freedoms associated with the first amendment and yet your only source is a wikipedia reference. Not one citation to a court case.

Certainly, being a strict constitutionalist you will not allow some activist court to broaden the scope of the first amendment to include something that is not specifically spelled out in the text. Or perhaps you need a judge to wipe your ass.

I'll ask again. Can you point to me where the constitution grants the freedom of association. I don't think you can.

[Blake]

How long do these contracts last? Let me illustrate with another hypothetical: I sign with an HOA, get a house, etc etc. The HOA is good for a year or two, then they start failing on the duties they've outlined in the contract (whatever those are *shrug*). Do I have the right to "opt out" or terminate the contract?

What if I just change my mind? Does the contract last until the end of time or what? I don't get how an HOA can own an entire area. Do they own the land as well?

You don't really "sign with an HOA".....

if you want a house, if there is an established HOA in the community, then you will be bound by the deed restrictions to be part of the HOA and pay dues.

The only land an HOA might own other than a meeting place or rec area would be the streets if they are within a gated community, the community being commonly referred to as a Planned Unit Development (PUD).

As long as you own the house and the HOA is still in tact, you are required to pay dues. No way out.

If you feel an HOA has failed to perform up to it's duties, chances are that you will have to sue them......Still not the way you can get out of the HOA.

[elbamba]

Is it that easy to disassemble an HOA? Or is it locked in by regulations, laws, etc? (Not a "gotcha", I seriously don't know.)

Depends on the state and the actual contract. It is not uncommon in some states for the developer to run the HOA until the development is completed and then sell the HOA to the HOs.

Most HOA will have a dissolution provision. There should also be a provision for removing the president and the board. If I were involved in this particular case, I would first search for the easiest method to have the Board and President removed. It is amazing what a little pressure can accomplish.

[Blake]

Depends on the state and the actual contract. It is not uncommon in some states for the developer to run the HOA until the development is completed and then sell the HOA to the HOs.

Most HOA will have a dissolution provision. There should also be a provision for removing the president and the board. If I were involved in this particular case, I would first search for the easiest method to have the Board and President removed. It is amazing what a little pressure can accomplish.

Those would be the easier ones to dissolve.

Most new developments that I'm aware of turn the HOA management over to a company...........like Associa.........which makes the process that much more difficult.

[Blake]

Either that or everyone just quits paying their fees. Which has happened
in some areas.

just curious, do you have a link to one of those instances?

[LnGrrrR]

You don't really "sign with an HOA".....

if you want a house, if there is an established HOA in the community, then you will be bound by the deed restrictions to be part of the HOA and pay dues.

The only land an HOA might own other than a meeting place or rec area would be the streets if they are within a gated community, the community being commonly referred to as a Planned Unit Development (PUD).

As long as you own the house and the HOA is still in tact, you are required to pay dues. No way out.

If you feel an HOA has failed to perform up to it's duties, chances are that you will have to sue them......Still not the way you can get out of the HOA.

See, that makes no sense to me. If I own the land, I should be able to do whatever the heck I want with it. (Ok, I'll allow city ordnances to hold sway.)

Where does an HOA get the right to force me to join?

[Wild Cobra]

Is it that easy to disassemble an HOA? Or is it locked in by regulations, laws, etc? (Not a "gotcha", I seriously don't know.)
I'm saying that is all the regulation needed. Make it actually controlled by the home owners. When you try to regulate what some authority can and cannot do, then you also end up infringing on completely cooperative efforts too.

[Wild Cobra]

See, that makes no sense to me. If I own the land, I should be able to do whatever the heck I want with it. (Ok, I'll allow city ordnances to hold sway.)

Where does an HOA get the right to force me to join?
The HOA is usually established before you buy. Housing laws make it a requirement that you know you are buying into such an agreement.

I see HOA's as useless for me as Timeshares are. You pay far more than you get. You are agreeing to live under other people's rules. I see owning a house in such places no better than allowing yourself to be an indentured servant. Your ownership is no worse than renting.

Still, some people like the standards they enforce. Some established communities set up their own.

[LnGrrrR]

The HOA is usually established before you buy. Housing laws make it a requirement that you know you are buying into such an agreement.

I see HOA's as useless for me as Timeshares are. You pay far more than you get. You are agreeing to live under other people's rules. I see owning a house in such places no better than allowing yourself to be an indentured servant. Your ownership is no worse than renting.

Still, some people like the standards they enforce. Some established communities set up their own.

From the small amount I've read, I agree with you. I figure, if I buy land somewhere, it's MY house and I can do what I want with it. That's why I'm waiting until I get out of the military to use my VA loan and settle down with my dream house.

[Blake]

From the small amount I've read, I agree with you. I figure, if I buy land somewhere, it's MY house and I can do what I want with it. That's why I'm waiting until I get out of the military to use my VA loan and settle down with my dream house.

If it's a newly built house, enjoy your dreamhouse out in the sticks.