NBA Playbook: Can He Bounce Back? Richard Jefferson

[Blackjack]

Can He Bounce Back? Richard Jefferson
Sebastian Pruiti

Can He Bounce Back? Is a new series here at NBAPlaybook, and in it we will be looking at players that had a rough 2010 and determine whether or not it was a fluke or a start of a trend.

This past season, Richard Jefferson had one of the worst years of his career. His 12.3 points per game was his lowest since his rookie year in 2001 (when he averaged just 24 minutes per game) and his PER of 13.18 was the lowest of his career.

Where He Struggled

Keep reading → (http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/22/can-he-bounce-back-richard-jefferson/)

[VI_Massive]

All the references to his diminshed and diminishing athleticism make me sick to my stomach, since we're now tied to him for 4 more years. Can he really change his game this late in his career to adjust? Can anyone think of a comparable player who relied on athleticism throughout his career and effectively altered his game to suit his diminished athletic capacity?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thanks for posting this, Blackjack :tu

I don't want RJ to turn into a spot up corner 3 shooter. That was never ever his game. If anything, I want him to be reprimanded if he takes any shot outside of 5 feet from the basket. He's at his best when cutting to the rim and driving hard. We should take advantage of what athleticism RJ has left (easily still one of the most athletic players on the team) and keep him as a slasher.

We'll leave the jump shots to Anderson, Temple, and Neal.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

All the references to his diminshed and diminishing athleticism make me sick to my stomach, since we're now tied to him for 4 more years. Can he really change his game this late in his career to adjust? Can anyone think of a comparable player who relied on athleticism throughout his career and effectively altered his game to suit his diminished athletic capacity?
First one that comes to mind is Antonio McDyess, post-injury. But it's different for a big who can rely more on his size than a wing player who has gotten by on athleticism. The thing about Jefferson is that his athleticism shouldn't be declining at age 29-30. That is when he should be at his peak. I don't think he was in very good shape last year, probably carrying 10-15 extra lbs. I don't have much faith in him doing anything but crapping all over himself, but it would be nice if he was busting his ass in the gym and following a strict nutritional plan to be in great shape for the season.

[austN Spur]

thanks was a good read. agree with the writer of the article and I also hope that with a 2nd year comes better opportunities and just for the damm ball to go in the hoop a little more for RJ this season

[spursfaninla]

I think RJ's best uses offensively are obviously 1) as an off-the-ball slasher, and 2) 3pt shooter.

Although we have several slashers, Manu is pretty old and TP will open up space if he gets into the paint, allowing RJ to attack then.

Thus, Manu should be transitioning to being a majority jump shooter anyway to save his body. TP should continue to divide his offense between driving to the hoop and the pnr, but we should focus on getting RJ the ball when the defense breaks down instead of tony always looking to score on that pnr.

RJ will be fine with his 3pt shot; we should just take advantage of his durability to use his body up more as a slasher to avoid the increased risk of injury to TP and manu.

[5in10]

. I don't think he was in very good shape last year, probably carrying 10-15 extra lbs. I don't have much faith in him doing anything but crapping all over himself, but it would be nice if he was busting his ass in the gym and following a strict nutritional plan to be in great shape for the season.

this

[spurspokesman]

Can He Bounce Back? Richard Jefferson
Sebastian Pruiti

Can He Bounce Back? Is a new series here at NBAPlaybook, and in it we will be looking at players that had a rough 2010 and determine whether or not it was a fluke or a start of a trend.

This past season, Richard Jefferson had one of the worst years of his career. His 12.3 points per game was his lowest since his rookie year in 2001 (when he averaged just 24 minutes per game) and his PER of 13.18 was the lowest of his career.

Where He Struggled

Keep reading ? (http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/22/can-he-bounce-back-richard-jefferson/)
Rj has loads of potential and has shown he is more than capable. But his heart doesn't follow his abilities. I am routing for him since he is a spur.

[CaptainLate]

Can He Bounce Back? Richard Jefferson
Sebastian Pruiti

Can He Bounce Back? Is a new series here at NBAPlaybook, and in it we will be looking at players that had a rough 2010 and determine whether or not it was a fluke or a start of a trend.

This past season, Richard Jefferson had one of the worst years of his career. His 12.3 points per game was his lowest since his rookie year in 2001 (when he averaged just 24 minutes per game) and his PER of 13.18 was the lowest of his career.

Where He Struggled

Keep reading → (http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/22/can-he-bounce-back-richard-jefferson/)


RJ for Comeback Player of the Year. :toast

[Obstructed_View]

All the references to his diminshed and diminishing athleticism make me sick to my stomach, since we're now tied to him for 4 more years. Can he really change his game this late in his career to adjust? Can anyone think of a comparable player who relied on athleticism throughout his career and effectively altered his game to suit his diminished athletic capacity?

Michael Finley.

[admiralsnackbar]

Anything is possible, but I don't think I buy that his athleticism has fallen off a cliff.

All the clips posted either show bloopers (didn't Tim string several together during the POs when he kept having trouble receiving passes? You flub a good pass, it's going to knock you out of rhythm... especially if the D is catching up with you) or a player who doesn't know who to be on the floor.

He knows who Pop and the crowd want him to be, and he knows what comes naturally to him (t-minus 10 for gay joke), but he doesn't know how to consolidate the two. He gets going in transition, then tries to slow the play down to a Spursy half-court set because he sees 3 defenders waiting for him. He gets airborne (athletically) for a dunk, but takes his eyes off the basket for the miss. He tries to shoot the corner 3 and over-thinks it. Whatever he has, I think it's mental. No confidence. No focus.

[admiralsnackbar]

Michael Finley.

I thought the same thing :lol

[elbamba]

His goal should be to get 3 layups or dunks in the first quarter every game. If he could do that, his jumper would start to fall. Scorers need to score, everything comes easy to them after a couple of layups and dunks.

[timaios]

Jefferson last year :

- a new town
- a new team
- a new system, a very difficult one to learn
- the 2 playmakers of the team supposed to help him scoring points were not themselves : Ginobili struggled for 4 months before being the great Manu again & Parker was not healthy all year.
- Pop tinkering with Spurs' lineups & chemistry all year.
- Jefferson was the 1st option with the bucks, he was the 4th or 5th option with the Spurs... with the 2nd highest salary of the team. He was confused and he put too much pressure on himself.
- and don't forget that Jefferson canceled his wedding just before the season starts. His mind was maybe not totally focused on basketball then. Just sayin'...

I think he will surprise a lot of people this year. He needs to redeem himself and with a healthy big 3, he could succeed.
OK, I am optimistic. So what ? :toast

[DPG21920]

It's too bad the Spurs SF role is spot up shooting.

[AFBlue]

rj for comeback player of the year. :toast

fify

[DesignatedT]

Jefferson last year :

- a new town
- a new team
- a new system, a very difficult one to learn
- the 2 playmakers of the team supposed to help him scoring points were not themselves : Ginobili struggled for 4 months before being the great Manu again & Parker was not healthy all year.
- Pop tinkering with Spurs' lineups & chemistry all year.
- Jefferson was the 1st option with the bucks, he was the 4th or 5th option with the Spurs... with the 2nd highest salary of the team. He was confused and he put too much pressure on himself.
- and don't forget that Jefferson canceled his wedding just before the season starts. His mind was maybe not totally focused on basketball then. Just sayin'...

I think he will surprise a lot of people this year. He needs to redeem himself and with a healthy big 3, he could succeed.
OK, I am optimistic. So what ? :toast

They're all solid points. I'm with you. I really hope he works out, sometimes I feel people would rather see him fail.

[ohmwrecker]

It's too bad the Spurs SF role is spot up shooting.

That's because that was the limitation of Bowen's offensive game. Sean Elliott took it to the rim more than he shot jumpers.

[AFBlue]

They're all solid points. I'm with you. I really hope he works out, sometimes I feel people would rather see him fail.

Nobody who's a true fan would rather see him fail. Like it or not, he becomes a big part of how far the Spurs go for this next season (and likely seasons after).

Some people are just a little more realistic about what kind of improvement to expect than others. I, for one, hope he exceeds my modest expectations for him.

[ohmwrecker]

I think the article is exaggerating his diminished athletic ability, most of those bonehead plays were the result of bad decision making and concentration. If he is more comfortable and more adjusted to where he and his teammates need to be, he is still an above average athlete.

[jason1301]

I am optimistic too, I think RJ will have a great year :toast

[Trimble87]

I think the article is exaggerating his diminished athletic ability, most of those bonehead plays were the result of bad decision making and concentration. If he is more comfortable and more adjusted to where he and his teammates need to be, he is still an above average athlete.

Agreed. His attempts around the rim going down also makes sense considering he went form the Bucks' first option to our 4th. I thought athletically he was fine last season. 12-13ppg is fine with me if he also has 4-6 boards and plays hard, the biggest problem with RJ last year was he showed no effort on either side of the floor.

[DPG21920]

That's because that was the limitation of Bowen's offensive game. Sean Elliott took it to the rim more than he shot jumpers.

Spurs need spacing imo. TP, Manu and Tim all operate in the paint for the most part. The SF needs to be able to spot up efficiently because that is where the majority of shots will be because the team is built around the big 3.


Sure, it's great to have the SF do other things, but they have to be good at that.

Also, I most definitely will be rooting for RJ next year. I hope he comes out fired up and plays well. I want that. I don't like his deal, but I like him just fine and I love the team.

I am not even going to be one of those guys who bags on him if he does have a bad year, because I expect it. I am talking a lot about it now because it is relevant, but I am not going to follow him around all season dogging him.

[AFBlue]

I think the article is exaggerating his diminished athletic ability, most of those bonehead plays were the result of bad decision making and concentration. If he is more comfortable and more adjusted to where he and his teammates need to be, he is still an above average athlete.

I think it was a combination of a lot of things...

1) Man-defense fundamentals...the guy was routinely in a bad "set up" when trying to defend a perimeter player and got burned more often than he should have because of it. He used to have pretty good fundamentals, but I guess he lost them somewhere along the way.

2) Loss of athleticism...while I agree it has been overstated, he simply doesn't have the foot speed or quickness to make the aformentioned mistakes fundamentally and recover in time to make a play.

3) System-defense principles...to put it in one word "horrific". He was routinely caught "ball watching", didn't know where to be or when to make rotations. This is probably the biggest area of concern, but fortunately it's probably the easiest to correct with time in the system.

It's not likely that we'll see improvement with #2, but if he can make strides in the other two areas he should, at the very least, not be a defensive liability when on the court.

[ohmwrecker]

That's good to hear, Dude.

[Obstructed_View]

I thought the same thing :lol

The sad difference is that Finley was an excellent one on one defender when he still had athletecism.

[Mr.Robinson]

If Parker passes him the ball he can bounce back. Parker needs to pass the fucking ball.

[senorglory]

That's because that was the limitation of Bowen's offensive game. Sean Elliott took it to the rim more than he shot jumpers.

damn, you're right. I'd almost forgotten. Spurs SFs do take it to the rim!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here is a highlight video from RJ's days at the Nets.

xhejWIUS7Gc

This is a video of RJ in his 'prime.'

Now throughout this entire video I did not see one case of Rj just beating a manned up defender with a crossover or the like. What I see a bunch of is him driving baseline from the corner when his man sags inside and transition baskets. In all of that he beats Bosh off the dribble and makes some scoop against a big he was lucky to not have blocked. This is all shit he was able to do last year as well.

The first two videos in this case are stupid. In the first one he does not have a one on one. He is leading the break and Temple is on the other wing. Temple is behind him and both defenders are under the basket. He takes it to the basket and he deals with both of them so he pulls up. Was it good transition d. were Temple and he not on the same page? I have no idea but this idea that he somwhow could have magically split them is stupid.

In the second, he bobbles it and McDyess goes under the basket as RJ makes his move. McDyess' defender stays put on RJs move and he is thus double teamed. McDyess is out of bounds. RJ had his man stumbling.

In both cases it looks to be more of a case of the guys not knowing what the other is doing and not a lack of anything that RJ could do before as evidenced by the initial highlight film.

[Nathan89]

That's because that was the limitation of Bowen's offensive game. Sean Elliott took it to the rim more than he shot jumpers.

When you play with penetrating Parker you have to be able to hit the open shot. Parker cant shoot so we definitely cant have another player out there at the same time that cant shoot. That is unless they play the Pf or C position.

[wut]

Jefferson last year :

- a new town
- a new team
- a new system, a very difficult one to learn
- the 2 playmakers of the team supposed to help him scoring points were not themselves : Ginobili struggled for 4 months before being the great Manu again & Parker was not healthy all year.
- Pop tinkering with Spurs' lineups & chemistry all year.
- Jefferson was the 1st option with the bucks, he was the 4th or 5th option with the Spurs... with the 2nd highest salary of the team. He was confused and he put too much pressure on himself.
- and don't forget that Jefferson canceled his wedding just before the season starts. His mind was maybe not totally focused on basketball then. Just sayin'...

I think he will surprise a lot of people this year. He needs to redeem himself and with a healthy big 3, he could succeed.
OK, I am optimistic. So what ? :toast
I agree with this....I like to think a lot of his weaknesses were mental, and largely due to the pressure he felt by trying to make things work under all the things listed above in what was basically a contract year for him. I believe RJ already knew midseason that he was going to have to opt out in order to get a long-term deal since he was second guessing his ability/value, knowing the Spurs were in dire needs to fill the SF spot made this less risky for him. It worked out in the end for both teams, despite what people here seem to think.

[Waps1980]

Interesting....

In fact, last year Jefferson had 1.61 points per possession (6th in the NBA)


I think he will bounce back but his ppg is not going to get much better when he is the 4th or 5th option.
He needs to improve in rebounds and general defense which I think he will, hge picked up in both those towards the end of the season.
Hopefully his confidence picks up cos his entire game will come with that.

[G-Dawgg]

That's because that was the limitation of Bowen's offensive game. Sean Elliott took it to the rim more than he shot jumpers.

Exactly.

[SCdac]

Richard Jefferson's athleticism may be regressing but he's still one of the most athletic on our particular team.

Have to keep in mind he's more of a stocky forward than a quick-like guard, and matched up against other forwards, he's not a bad option.

He was a volume shooter who has to adjust to our system just like Finley (who went from 14.2 FGA to 9.0 FGA, and shot low 40% his first few months on the team)... Jefferson has a lot of potential to bounce back, but it's on him.

I didn't create this GIF and you can catch this dunk on youtube, but here against Oklahoma, it looked like Jefferson was guarded by the small forward Jeff Green somewhere at the top of the key, and needless to say... RJ, right now, still has the vertical, power, and quickness to smash one down on 7'0 Nenad Krstic, or Greg Oden, and other big men of their caliber.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/jeffersondunksonKrstik1-13-10.gif

Here in this play, he's matched up against another team's bench SF/PF (Indiana's Hansbrough) not as deep in the corner or at the top of the key, but in the mid-range area with the ball in-hand. He shows some skill and ballhandling faking left, then gets to the basket within a few steps to finish a reverse with relative ease... Hansbrough is far from an elite defender (don't get me wrong), but the point is RJ's offense and ability to driven/finish hasn't massively deteriorated in one season.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/09.gif


Here in this 27 second clip (about a month before heading into the playoffs), Duncan has the ball in the post against the Clippers, Jefferson off-the-ball is working, uses a little fake to the middle of the court to gain a step on his defender, than receives a little hand off from Duncan (while RJ's man is hedged off by Timmy), a hop-step later along the baseline and Jefferson completes one handed dunk..... his athleticism is certainly still there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V46W8RNraF8


As for the article, it's probably very easy to pick out a handful of botched possessions through out the 82 game regular season (and post season), but surely Jefferson was doing some things right, some things wrong, and some things about average, regardless of merely aging and regression.

Out of his 360+ made field goals, about 300 of them were from within the arch, and his finishing skills are still pretty good. It's true that his numbers of "getting to the rim" have dropped, but like others have mentioned, his role in San Antonio was a stark contrast to what he was used to.

His problem has mostly been consistency on both ends, limited shot attempts/looks/lobs, and being mismatched against taller players like LaMarcus Aldridge and Kevin Love when Bonner went down with a hand injury. This season, hopefully that (small ball) will be less of an option with 25 year old Splitter on board, Blair expected to play more, Bonner (unfortunately) re-signing, and McDyess always available.

Jefferson publicly admitted to having a disappointing season, I'm sure he understands. Hopefully him, Popovich, the Big-3, and George Hill, all continue to gel enough to where Jefferson in time gains more of a Tayshuan Prince type of role as far as chemistry and Points Per Game (Prince was typically around the 3/4th scoring option in Detroit, but effective).

[NRHector]

He also needs improvement with his freethrows and layups, he missed a lot of those last season

[Johnny RIngo]

More than likely we'll see the same RJ as last year. The RJ/Bonner contracts are probably the two worst given out by the Spurs FO in the Tim Duncan era.

[ducks]

If Parker passes him the ball he can bounce back. Parker needs to pass the fucking ball.

yes tp made rj miss those d rotations

yes tp when he was hurt on the bench made rj miss those shots

[ducks]

RJ needs to average 5 rebound a game!!!!!!!!
I can live with the 12 points but play d and rebound

[analyzed]

The expectations for RJ are not high. If he can avg a solid 13 pts and play decent defense that should be fine, between him and anderson if they total 20 pts on average, the Spurs will be fine at the small forward spot. If RJ can do that, his resigning will go down as a hugely succesful off season move. with the money the spurs had we could'nt have done better

[Waps1980]

yes tp made rj miss those d rotations

yes tp when he was hurt on the bench made rj miss those shots
lol

RJs best games were when TP was out, that and some of the teams best games.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think RJ will be marginally better than last season in terms of scoring and shooting, but will continue to be patchy and hesitant going to the rim, and frustratingly inept on D. I hope no-one seriously thinks he can be the lockdown perimeter defender this team needs, because he doesn't have it in him... he simply doesn't have the instincts to be even a homeless man's Bruce Bowen.

Yeah, I think he'll be a bit better than last year but nowhere near value for 10mil, and certainly not in making a difference as far as team success. I hope I'm wrong, but most 30yo SFs can't change their spots to stripes, no matter how hard they try...

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Richard Jefferson's athleticism may be regressing but he's still one of the most athletic on our particular team.

Have to keep in mind he's more of a stocky forward than a quick-like guard, and matched up against other forwards, he's not a bad option.

He was a volume shooter who has to adjust to our system just like Finley (who went from 14.2 FGA to 9.0 FGA, and shot low 40% his first few months on the team)... Jefferson has a lot of potential to bounce back, but it's on him.

I didn't create this GIF and you can catch this dunk on youtube, but here against Oklahoma, it looked like Jefferson was guarded by the small forward Jeff Green somewhere at the top of the key, and needless to say... RJ, right now, still has the vertical, power, and quickness to smash one down on 7'0 Nenad Krstic, or Greg Oden, and other big men of their caliber.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/jeffersondunksonKrstik1-13-10.gif

Here in this play, he's matched up against another team's bench SF/PF (Indiana's Hansbrough) not as deep in the corner or at the top of the key, but in the mid-range area with the ball in-hand. He shows some skill and ballhandling faking left, then gets to the basket within a few steps to finish a reverse with relative ease... Hansbrough is far from an elite defender (don't get me wrong), but the point is RJ's offense and ability to driven/finish hasn't massively deteriorated in one season.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/09.gif


Here in this 27 second clip (about a month before heading into the playoffs), Duncan has the ball in the post against the Clippers, Jefferson off-the-ball is working, uses a little fake to the middle of the court to gain a step on his defender, than receives a little hand off from Duncan (while RJ's man is hedged off by Timmy), a hop-step later along the baseline and Jefferson completes one handed dunk..... his athleticism is certainly still there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V46W8RNraF8


As for the article, it's probably very easy to pick out a handful of botched possessions through out the 82 game regular season (and post season), but surely Jefferson was doing some things right, some things wrong, and some things about average, regardless of merely aging and regression.

Out of his 360+ made field goals, about 300 of them were from within the arch, and his finishing skills are still pretty good. It's true that his numbers of "getting to the rim" have dropped, but like others have mentioned, his role in San Antonio was a stark contrast to what he was used to.

His problem has mostly been consistency on both ends, limited shot attempts/looks/lobs, and being mismatched against taller players like LaMarcus Aldridge and Kevin Love when Bonner went down with a hand injury. This season, hopefully that (small ball) will be less of an option with 25 year old Splitter on board, Blair expected to play more, Bonner (unfortunately) re-signing, and McDyess always available.

Jefferson publicly admitted to having a disappointing season, I'm sure he understands. Hopefully him, Popovich, the Big-3, and George Hill, all continue to gel enough to where Jefferson in time gains more of a Tayshuan Prince type of role as far as chemistry and Points Per Game (Prince was typically around the 3/4th scoring option in Detroit, but effective).

Nice find. I will admit that when RJ occasionally turned on the afterburners last season, he put together some vicious moves. We need more of them from him, many more.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

He was great in Game 2 against Dallas.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

The Spurs last year were not a very good passing team. The old formula of feeding it to Duncan and spreading the floor with 3pt shooters needs to change. I like the pick and roll offense that is being used now. Unfortunately, Tim Ducan is not a very good pick and roll player. He lacks the athleticism to roll to the basket muchless doing something with the ball if it is given to him in paint. Blair, on the otherhand, played the pick and roll well for a big man. Him teaming up with Manu was fun to watch.

I think this is where Tiago is going to help not just Jefferson but all the Spurs become a better offensive team. Tiago on the pick and roll is masterful. He commands so much attention after the screen he sets that defenders will be forced to sag to protect the rim. This will allow easier shots from outside (similar to the Suns Amare Stoudemire when he sets the pick). Tiagos ability to finish and to even a greater extent his ability to pass is going to other Spurs cutting baseline for easy layups, or in Jeffersons case, easy dunks. Tiago may surpass Duncan as the best passing big man on the Spurs roster and challenge Manu as the best passer on the team.

[objective]

Here in this play, he's matched up against another team's bench SF/PF (Indiana's Hansbrough) not as deep in the corner or at the top of the key, but in the mid-range area with the ball in-hand. He shows some skill and ballhandling faking left, then gets to the basket within a few steps to finish a reverse with relative ease... Hansbrough is far from an elite defender (don't get me wrong), but the point is RJ's offense and ability to driven/finish hasn't massively deteriorated in one season.

Hansborough has never and will never be a small forward. This past year, his rookie season, he played ZERO minutes at SF according to 82games. That play had to have been just a busted play where Hansborough was caught on the perimeter with no prayer of stopping anyone.

[mountainballer]

I think it was a combination of a lot of things...

1) Man-defense fundamentals...the guy was routinely in a bad "set up" when trying to defend a perimeter player and got burned more often than he should have because of it. He used to have pretty good fundamentals, but I guess he lost them somewhere along the way.

2) Loss of athleticism...while I agree it has been overstated, he simply doesn't have the foot speed or quickness to make the aformentioned mistakes fundamentally and recover in time to make a play.

3) System-defense principles...to put it in one word "horrific". He was routinely caught "ball watching", didn't know where to be or when to make rotations. This is probably the biggest area of concern, but fortunately it's probably the easiest to correct with time in the system.

It's not likely that we'll see improvement with #2, but if he can make strides in the other two areas he should, at the very least, not be a defensive liability when on the court.

agree on all points.
about athleticism: someone mentioned he could lose some weight. possible. won't bring back all the speed, but could help a bit. the thing about athleticism is also the balance between the athleticism you in fact have at one point and what you try to do then. a smart player (and good coach) will adjust the game to this actual potential. and what RJ still has, is very good size and wingspan for the SF spot. he needs to adjust and learn to better utilize this size. (no idea if he can do that at 30. but he should definitely study some Battier videos)

[Mr.Robinson]

yes tp made rj miss those d rotations

yes tp when he was hurt on the bench made rj miss those shots

Spurs and Dick played the best basketball all season when TP went down. When you're not involved in the offense it can fuck with the rest of your game.

[DrSteffo]

Whatever he has, I think it's mental. No confidence. No focus.

This. I don't know what his problem was/is but I do think it's mental. Hopefully he has things sorted out now. I can understand that players temporarily go through rough times just like everybody else. On the other hand what I would never understand or tolerate is players showing no heart and not caring about their team winning games while earning millions. I hope RJ is not one of those players.

[Obstructed_View]

That's because that was the limitation of Bowen's offensive game. Sean Elliott took it to the rim more than he shot jumpers.

:lol Sean Elliott took it to the rim slightly more than Bowen did. It was the biggest knock on his game that he wouldn't go to the rim even if there was a lane.

[ohmwrecker]

:lol Sean Elliott took it to the rim slightly more than Bowen did. It was the biggest knock on his game that he wouldn't go to the rim even if there was a lane.

The biggest knock? I don't think so. You are obviously overstating to prove your point. Not to mention being a total asshole while doing it.
My point was Elliott was more than a spot up shooter in the Spurs' system and he was never a consistent 3 point shooter. People have the Memorial Day Miracle burned into their brains and think that Elliott was just lights out from that corner three. Not true. He wasn't bad, but he only had three season where he shot slightly above 40%.

[MoSpur]

I still think RJ is athletic. Maybe not like he was when he was with the Nets, but he still gots it. I think he'll improve. However, he needs to start turning into a spot up shooter somewhat because as he gets older he's not gonna get more athletic.

I think RJ plays better with Manu. I think Hill, TP, Splitter, Duncan, and fill in the blank SF should be the starting lineup. Blair, Dice, Manu, RJ, and I'm guessing Temple at the PG should be the second unit.

[Agloco]

[B][U]
This past season, Richard Jefferson had one of the worst years of his career. His 12.3 points per game was his lowest since his rookie year in 2001 (when he averaged just 24 minutes per game) and his PER of 13.18 was the lowest of his career.


His PER needs to improve to at least 17. Since he plays a lot of minutes already, this necessarily means that his scoring and rebounding need to pick up a bit.

Will they? I wouldn't hold my breath especially with Splitter coming over and Blair improving. There's only so many possessions to go around.

[Agloco]

:lol Sean Elliott took it to the rim slightly more than Bowen did. It was the biggest knock on his game that he wouldn't go to the rim even if there was a lane.

Yeah but when he did, he usually finished. Once Bowen was forced off of his spot, the result was usually pretty ugly.

[dbestpro]

Translation: Parker needs to learn how to pass the ball to a cutter that is open.

[Agloco]

All the references to his diminshed and diminishing athleticism make me sick to my stomach, since we're now tied to him for 4 more years. Can he really change his game this late in his career to adjust? Can anyone think of a comparable player who relied on athleticism throughout his career and effectively altered his game to suit his diminished athletic capacity?

OV mentioned Michael Finley. I'd add Michael Jordan to that list as well.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah but when he did, he usually finished. Once Bowen was forced off of his spot, the result was usually pretty ugly.


When he went to the bucket with the intention of finishing, he usually did. The problem is he didn't go to the bucket much and when he did he didn't always go with the intent to finish. If he'd been as good a shooter as Bowen nobody would have complained.

[Obstructed_View]

The biggest knock? I don't think so. You are obviously overstating to prove your point. Not to mention being a total asshole while doing it.
My point was Elliott was more than a spot up shooter in the Spurs' system and he was never a consistent 3 point shooter. People have the Memorial Day Miracle burned into their brains and think that Elliott was just lights out from that corner three. Not true. He wasn't bad, but he only had three season where he shot slightly above 40%.

Name a bigger knock on Sean Elliott. It was all about his lack of aggressiveness on the offensive end. I don't think there was really any complaint about any other part of his game.

[ohmwrecker]

Name a bigger knock on Sean Elliott. It was all about his lack of aggressiveness on the offensive end. I don't think there was really any complaint about any other part of his game.

You are continuing to argue your own point instead of the one I made. Which was, again, the Spurs system SF does not have to be, solely, a corner 3 pt shooter. You are being argumentative, confrontational and condescending to anyone who isn't completely trashing Jefferson and I am not interested anymore.

[Obstructed_View]

You are continuing to argue your own point instead of the one I made. Which was, again, the Spurs system SF does not have to be, solely, a corner 3 pt shooter. You are being argumentative, confrontational and condescending to anyone who isn't completely trashing Jefferson and I am not interested anymore.

The point that you made is that the small forward position isn't primarily spot up shooting, and you blamed the weaknesses in Bruce Bowen's game for that and then cited a guy who was primarily a spot up shooter. You then called me an asshole, said I'm being argumentative and accused me of completely thrashing Jefferson. You've basically been making excuses for him throughout this thread and if you want to use bogus facts about past players in order to do so, expect to be called out on it.

Jefferson relies on his athletecism to do most everything he does well, and once that's gone he doesn't really have any other skills to fall back on. Elliott actually did an excellent job of extending his range as he got older, which made him more valuable, plus he always prided himself on aggressive defense, something RJ doesn't do. Elliott paved the way for Bowen in the Spurs' system.

[MoSpur]

I miss the Ninga. RJ needs to develop a shot. Whether the corner three or a 18-20 footer. He can't just rely on slashing to the basket.

[Obstructed_View]

I miss the Ninga. RJ needs to develop a shot. Whether the corner three or a 18-20 footer. He can't just rely on slashing to the basket.

If RJ can concentrate on developing a shot and can focus a little more on defense, he suddenly becomes extremely valuable to the Spurs. He doesn't have to hit threes, he just has to pick a spot and make it his.

[SenorSpur]

Richard Jefferson's athleticism may be regressing but he's still one of the most athletic on our particular team.

Have to keep in mind he's more of a stocky forward than a quick-like guard, and matched up against other forwards, he's not a bad option.


Jefferson publicly admitted to having a disappointing season, I'm sure he understands. Hopefully him, Popovich, the Big-3, and George Hill, all continue to gel enough to where Jefferson in time gains more of a Tayshuan Prince type of role as far as chemistry and Points Per Game (Prince was typically around the 3/4th scoring option in Detroit, but effective).

As I've said before, RJ isn't a bad player. He just doesn't fit well on this team. I don't expect much more effectiveness from him, not so much because of him, but because the Spurs offense doesn't suit his style of play and TP isn't the type of PG that can make a player like RJ flourish.

That said, I've had some time to think about RJ and I'm willing to give him a second-season, benefit-of-the-doubt. Despite his shortcomings, I still rather have him than say, a Vince Carter or a Michael Finley.

[ohmwrecker]

The point that you made is that the small forward position isn't primarily spot up shooting, and you blamed the weaknesses in Bruce Bowen's game for that and then cited a guy who was primarily a spot up shooter.

You are telling me what my point was . . . I didn't blame anyone, I pointed out that Bowen's offensive game was limited to the corner three. Which is true. It's also true that Bowen worked so dilligently on that aspect of his game that it became a weapon. Sean Elliott was not "primarily" a spot up shooter until toward the end of his career when he lost some quickness. Elliott's All-Star days were marked by his athletic ability and his explosiveness going to the basket.



You then called me an asshole, said I'm being argumentative and accused me of completely thrashing Jefferson. You've basically been making excuses for him throughout this thread and if you want to use bogus facts about past players in order to do so, expect to be called out on it.

I called you an asshole because you are dismissive of anyone whose opinion differs from yours with your little laughing emoticon. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours does not make their "facts" bogus.


Jefferson relies on his athleticism to do most everything he does well, and once that's gone he doesn't really have any other skills to fall back on. Elliott actually did an excellent job of extending his range as he got older, which made him more valuable, plus he always prided himself on aggressive defense, something RJ doesn't do. Elliott paved the way for Bowen in the Spurs' system.

I mostly agree with this except for the idea that there is no way that Jefferson can improve in these areas. Outside of last year, Jefferson has proved he can do these thing well. No one seems to be taking his whole career into consideration when evaluating his capabilities.

[Obstructed_View]

I called you an asshole because you are dismissive of anyone whose opinion differs from yours with your little laughing emoticon. Just because someone has a different opinion than yours does not make their "facts" bogus.
You are free to interpret or misinterpret the laughing emoticon as you wish, but I laughed because your facts were bogus and they were the whole basis for your argument. Sean Elliott throughout his career was not a slasher. He had the talent to be, and the Spurs would have been a lot better had he been, but he wasn't. The only season where he really gave some effort in that area he was an all-star, but he was never as aggressive as he should have been. Bowen turned Elliott's role into a specialty because he probably didn't have the talent to be a slasher like Elliott did.



I mostly agree with this except for the idea that there is no way that Jefferson can improve in these areas. Outside of last year, Jefferson has proved he can do these thing well. No one seems to be taking his whole career into consideration when evaluating his capabilities.
There you go interpreting things again. You should have that checked. If only I'd said that there was no way that Jefferson could improve, but alas, I didn't. Jefferson has yet to prove that he can play defense well or score consistently when he's not the first or second option. I certainly hope that he does this season.

[ohmwrecker]

You are free to interpret or misinterpret the laughing emoticon as you wish, but I laughed because your facts were bogus and they were the whole basis for your argument. Sean Elliott throughout his career was not a slasher. He had the talent to be, and the Spurs would have been a lot better had he been, but he wasn't. The only season where he really gave some effort in that area he was an all-star, but he was never as aggressive as he should have been. Bowen turned Elliott's role into a specialty because he probably didn't have the talent to be a slasher like Elliott did.

First of all, I gave no "facts" just my opinion. Same as you. I do remember Sean getting knocked for not being aggressive enough. The whole Spurs team at that time were labeled as "soft". I think he was a fairly balanced inside/out player on the whole and I wouldn't necessarily characterize him as favoring one over the other, but I certainly wouldn't say he was primarily a jump shooter.




There you go interpreting things again. You should have that checked. If only I'd said that there was no way that Jefferson could improve, but alas, I didn't. Jefferson has yet to prove that he can play defense well or score consistently when he's not the first or second option. I certainly hope that he does this season.

Well, I'm certainly not going to go digging through all of your comments to cite a reference and if you are sure that you have never doubted Jefferson's ability to improve next season, then I apologize. However, if you look at Jefferson's career, most of the things he is being accused of not being able to do, he actually has done.

I don't really feel like defending Jefferson anymore. It's obvious that some people are locked into their opinions and that is not going to change. There are some people here that have different opinions from mine that I can have a civil debate with. I'm not sure if you are one of those people.

[Obstructed_View]

Well, I'm certainly not going to go digging through all of your comments to cite a reference and if you are sure that you have never doubted Jefferson's ability to improve next season, then I apologize.
I'd have saved you the time anyway: I doubt Jefferson's ability to improve. Only an idiot wouldn't doubt his ability to improve. Look at his track record. His production last year was consistent with his production the rest of his career. He's basically showing no ability to adapt so far. I've said I'm hopeful, but I'd be lying if I told you I didn't have doubts.



However, if you look at Jefferson's career, most of the things he is being accused of not being able to do, he actually has done.
Since I've already gone over his career stats ad-nauseum, and am on the record saying that he hasn't done anything different, I'm going to have to wait for examples of him playing defense or being a smart shooter or being able to produce and contribute without getting a lot of shot attempts.


I don't really feel like defending Jefferson anymore. It's obvious that some people are locked into their opinions and that is not going to change. There are some people here that have different opinions from mine that I can have a civil debate with. I'm not sure if you are one of those people.
Sorry that you feel like a civil debate requires that other people accept your position, ignoring history, their facts and the information that they provide. Also sorry for your sake that you're unable to convince everyone to feel good about RJ's future with the team just because you, I dunno, like him or think he's a good guy.

You have a tendency to lock yourself into "this guy's good" or "this guy's bad" and you spend way too much time digging your heels in to pay attention to the discourse, and that much more time crying about how rotten everyone is that doesn't agree with you. Since we're in the offseason, nothing's going to change in peoples' positions until guys start playing ball and giving us new information, so stating opinions and giving evidence is the best any of us can do until then.

[ohmwrecker]

I'd have saved you the time anyway: I doubt Jefferson's ability to improve. Only an idiot wouldn't doubt his ability to improve. Look at his track record. His production last year was consistent with his production the rest of his career. He's basically showing no ability to adapt so far. I've said I'm hopeful, but I'd be lying if I told you I didn't have doubts.

It's no more idiotic to assume he can improve than to assume he can't. Again you are being condescending and argumentative to anyone who does not share your opinion. You are using the same M.O. in any of the 5 to 6 arguments you are currently engaged in on this board. I have my doubts too. Any reasonable person would.



Since I've already gone over his career stats ad-nauseum, and am on the record saying that he hasn't done anything different, I'm going to have to wait for examples of him playing defense or being a smart shooter or being able to produce and contribute without getting a lot of shot attempts.

All you have to do is read the article that is linked in the OP of this very thread to see an example of someone who has taken the time to show exactly what Jefferson needs to improve on and given specific details how he has shown aptitude in those areas during his career.


You have a tendency to lock yourself into "this guy's good" or "this guy's bad" and you spend way too much time digging your heels in to pay attention to the discourse, and that much more time crying about how rotten everyone is that doesn't agree with you. Since we're in the offseason, nothing's going to change in peoples' positions until guys start playing ball and giving us new information, so stating opinions and giving evidence is the best any of us can do until then.

This part is all just a gigantic pile of horseshit and you know it. I don't believe those things at all. Your misguided interpretation and ridiculous assumptions shouldn't be part of this conversation. You are just purposefully trying to insult and discredit me without any self awareness to speak of. I'm not crying and I don't care if you agree with me or not.

[callo1]

All the references to his diminshed and diminishing athleticism make me sick to my stomach, since we're now tied to him for 4 more years. Can he really change his game this late in his career to adjust? Can anyone think of a comparable player who relied on athleticism throughout his career and effectively altered his game to suit his diminished athletic capacity?

Karl Malone, Terry Porter and Jerome Kersey to name only a few.

[mingus]

If RJ can concentrate on developing a shot and can focus a little more on defense, he suddenly becomes extremely valuable to the Spurs. He doesn't have to hit threes, he just has to pick a spot and make it his.

he does have to be able to hit threes from his spot though or else the defense will just sag, like the Suns did.

what really really hurt the Spurs last year was not only that, but that RMJ couldn't hit a shot. so the Spurs had no alternative to RJ. RMJ went virtually unscathed by fans and media last year, with RJ getting most of the blame.

RJ will never be a dead-on three point shooter, but i'm hoping he can do better than last year. it'd be great if he can shoot it at 36 %.

[Obstructed_View]

It's no more idiotic to assume he can improve than to assume he can't. Again you are being condescending and argumentative to anyone who does not share your opinion. You are using the same M.O. in any of the 5 to 6 arguments you are currently engaged in on this board. I have my doubts too. Any reasonable person would.

Kind of flies in the face of "if you are sure that you have never doubted Jefferson's ability to improve next season", doesn't it?


This part is all just a gigantic pile of horseshit and you know it. I don't believe those things at all. Your misguided interpretation and ridiculous assumptions shouldn't be part of this conversation. You are just purposefully trying to insult and discredit me without any self awareness to speak of. I'm not crying and I don't care if you agree with me or not.
I'm not the one calling people names, you are. I'm not the one accusing others of being condescending and argumentative.

Seriously, who complains about someone arguing with them on an Internet message board and then has the chutzpah to deny being a crybaby?

[da_suns_fan]

I was shocked that Jefferson opted. I dont think Ive ever been more positive about anything as much as I was that Jefferson was going to collect that 15 million. Especially considering how market value had plummeted last season.

The the Spurs go and sign him for 10 million a year for the next four years?

Are you freaking kidding me?!!!

What did they think other teams would offer him? Who with cap space would want him? The Clippers? The Nets? The Knicks?

Maybe the Knicks, but how much would they offer the guy? I think a player like Jefferson is a 6-7 million player. You would never want to allocate 1/5 of the salary cap to him considering he cant do everything you need from a player at his position (most notably shoot).

And even if the Knicks were to offer Jefferson 10 million, so what? LET THEM HAVE HIM!! Jefferson fucking sucks!

[ohmwrecker]

Kind of flies in the face of "if you are sure that you have never doubted Jefferson's ability to improve next season", doesn't it?

I was asking you. I already knew how I felt. So, no.



I'm not the one calling people names, you are. I'm not the one accusing others of being condescending and argumentative.

You mocked my statement while simultaneously misinterpreting and misrepresenting it's intent. I called you an asshole. Get over it.


Seriously, who complains about someone arguing with them on an Internet message board and then has the chutzpah to deny being a crybaby?

Who's complaining? If I had time and wasn't so easily bored I would argue this all day. Criticizing your inability to argue on topic and being dubious of your intentions when you turn it into a personal issue is not really being a crybaby.

[Obstructed_View]

I was asking you. I already knew how I felt. So, no.


If you know how you felt, then I'm not sure why you act like doubting RJ is a bad thing one post before admitting that you doubt RJ.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

I was shocked that Jefferson opted. I dont think Ive ever been more positive about anything as much as I was that Jefferson was going to collect that 15 million. Especially considering how market value had plummeted last season.

The the Spurs go and sign him for 10 million a year for the next four years?

Are you freaking kidding me?!!!

What did they think other teams would offer him? Who with cap space would want him? The Clippers? The Nets? The Knicks?

Maybe the Knicks, but how much would they offer the guy? I think a player like Jefferson is a 6-7 million player. You would never want to allocate 1/5 of the salary cap to him considering he cant do everything you need from a player at his position (most notably shoot).

And even if the Knicks were to offer Jefferson 10 million, so what? LET THEM HAVE HIM!! Jefferson fucking sucks!

he was our best choice at SF. our biggest payout MLE was saved for Splitter and not to mention all the retarded paydays that all these average players got didnt helps us any in signing a solid Starting SF with the remainder of our MLE or our LLE. Hell we are having a hard time finding a decent backup SF.

[ohmwrecker]

If you know how you felt, then I'm not sure why you act like doubting RJ is a bad thing one post before admitting that you doubt RJ.

I didn't say it was bad. I believe that RJ is more likely to improve than not. That leaves a little room for doubt, sure. I'm not going to be so absolutist about it. None of us know what's going to happen this year.

This whole thing started because I was frustrated with people comparing RJ to Bowen and that he was unable to bring what Bruce brought to the table. I thought Elliott would be a more apt comparison (system-wise) since they have a similar set of skills.

[Marcus Bryant]

What would suck more would be one of the people's champ D-leaguers that some cream themselves about on here starting at the 3 spot next season.

[Dr. Gonzo]

fify

:lmao that's hilarious because blue text is funny.

[Obstructed_View]

What would suck more would be one of the people's champ D-leaguers that some cream themselves about on here starting at the 3 spot next season.

What would suck more is if the team actually gave one of those players a chance. It's far better to grind them down into nothing and then release them or pay another team to take them. Better yet, let's throw money at useless veterans. Is Keith Bogans still available?

[Marcus Bryant]

If they couldn't beat out a Roger Mason or a Keith Bogans, they suck.

[Obstructed_View]

Hairston outplayed Keith Bogans and Roger Mason. Talk to the guy who kept playing them. He's the same guy who's probably going to invite Adam Morrisson to camp.

[Marcus Bryant]

So you believe he outplayed them.

[DPG21920]

If they couldn't beat out a Roger Mason or a Keith Bogans, they suck.

Blair and Hill must both suck. Blair could not beat out Bonner for minutes and Hill, the year before last was riding that pine behind Mason.

[Obstructed_View]

So you believe he outplayed them.

You're not that stupid. You know he did.

[Obstructed_View]

Hey remember when Michael Finley beat out Manu?

[Marcus Bryant]

Manu came off the bench for another reason.

[m33p0]

okay, let's see if he can bounce.

somebody push him off a tall building so we can find out.

[mytespurs]

I wasn't thrilled he was resigned by the Spurs him but I guess all we can hope is that RJ is the player this year that we expected him to be last year. :toast

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Hairston outplayed Keith Bogans and Roger Mason. Talk to the guy who kept playing them. He's the same guy who's probably going to invite Adam Morrisson to camp.


LOL. Some people think that Hairston should be getting serious minutes. While we have seen some flashes of a good player (typically when he is dunking the ball) he lacks the overall skill to be an effective player. Dude is really not a very good shooter, too small for SF, bad decision making, poor rotation on defense, etc.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

LOL. Some people think that Hairston should be getting serious minutes. While we have seen some flashes of a good player (typically when he is dunking the ball) he lacks the overall skill to be an effective player. Dude is really not a very good shooter, too small for SF, bad decision making, poor rotation on defense, etc.

To be prototypical he could use another two or three inches for SF but he has enough weight. He moves well laterally on defense. He has burst and the man can leap. I also do not recall these defensive lapses you contend.

He shot well with the Toros and while he did not with the Spurs, 11 shots is clearly not enough to make an evaluation on.

I am not saying that he is definitely going to succeed but saying he does not have the tools is nonsense.

[HarlemHeat37]

I wrote this post on Wednesday, I was going to wait until I finished the entire thing, but it takes too long, so I'll just post the first part..there are a few parts to it, so I'll post the rest on Sunday or something..

Does anybody know an easy way where I can convert the videos and post them here?..I have all the footage, but I can't post it in the format that it's currently saved..it would be easier to show..



Let's start with his weaknesses..the problem with his weaknesses is that they obviously don't fit with the starting lineup and the style that the Spurs main core players..

Richard Jefferson shot 36% from the field in spot-up shooting situations, 34% from 3-point range..he only scored on 38% of his overall opportunities from spot-up situations..

Jefferson was 4-17 from the field in the series vs. the Suns in spot-up shooting situations..he was 1 for his last 8 with a turnover in the last 9 spot-up opportunities in that series..

Jerryd Dudley admitted that the Suns strategy was to make him beat them, and the video evidence backs it up..Jason Richardson, Dudley and Grant Hill all sagged off Jefferson, often watching Parker and Ginobili on the perimeter when they would drive, resulting in Jefferson having to make a play..they didn't respect him at all..

Jefferson's weak shooting seems to be the common theme in his struggles from every type of play that was ran for him last season, from isolation plays, to hand-offs, to screen plays..


Jefferson was also terrible at decision-making plays, meaning loose ball situations and other plays where he has to perform after a broken play..he also struggled with his posting up, it's where he posted the highest % of his turnovers, and he shot an inefficient %..

RJ didn't really show any variety in his post game..he was 21-53 from posting up..his post up game pretty much consisted of taking 2 dribbles and rising over the defender for a fadeaway..it actually works a decent amount of time against smaller defenders, but he struggles a lot at posting up players of similar size..




He was above average in isolation situations, pick and rolls, and in transition..his best offensive traits this season came from cutting to the basket and playing off hand-offs, with cutting to the basket being far and away the best..


Examining Jefferson in isolation situations..Jefferson was 18-49 from the field in isolation situations where he took a jump shot..his shot pretty much continues to be the weaknesses in his game..he was 16-27 from the field in isolation situations where he finished in the paint, which is obviously his strong suit..his aggressiveness lacked a lot at times, which everybody here noticed..

From watching it over again, it does appear that Jefferson did have trouble playing with Duncan at times, especially in the 2nd half of the season where Duncan's jump shot disappeared..Jefferson would often times drive to the middle and find that the paint was crowded, often making him settle for his inconsistent jump shot, or making the shot in the paint more difficult..

Jefferson and Duncan have shown good cohesion when it comes to playing a 2-man game, but Jefferson glaringly struggled with Duncan's presence inside, since it's the first time he's played with a post-up player of Duncan's caliber..I'm not sure how they will adjust..the offense looked too bunched up a lot of the time when Jefferson would drive and Duncan would still be under the net..

It's very clear that his biggest strength in iso situations is driving the baseline..his other go to move is driving inside and stopping for a mid-range J in the middle of the paint, which also works fairly well..

A lot of his isolation success seems to come from mismatches against PFs and Cs on switches, and from catching the ball and making a quick decision after the defender closes in on him..his aggressiveness is obviously the key to a lot of this..

Once again, Jefferson struggled in isolation situations when he had to use his jump shot..he works well with the drive and pull-up from the middle, but he struggled with beating perimeter defenders off the dribble, and he pretty much struggled any time he pulled up from the wing..the lack of separation against those types of defenders is obviously compounded by the fact that he struggled with his shot all year..


The Spurs will need to use more hand-off plays with Jefferson when he's playing with the starting unit..he once again struggled with his jump shot here, going 13-35 in these situations, but he was 9-10 from hand-offs when he attacked the paint, which seems to be the common trend for success here..

Examples..

Vs. Charlotte..Jefferson throws entry pass to Duncan, catching it in a post-up situation on the mid-wing..Duncan fakes a pass, hand-offs to a cutting Jefferson, Duncan subtly screens Stephen Jackson, Jefferson has a good lane to the basket where he attacks Boris Diaw for an and-1..

Vs. Orlando..Duncan catches at the top of the key..takes 2 dribbles to the left..Jefferson comes from the corner to the top to catch the hand-off from Duncan..Dwight Howard is still on Duncan, Jefferson goes towards him, spin move, gets an easy layup on a nice move coming from Howard paying attention to Duncan..

Vs. Phoenix in the playoffs..Duncan catches on the low block on the right side..Jefferson fakes a cut to the left, cuts back to the right, Duncan hands it off, Jefferson cuts baseline for a strong finish..

Obviously this doesn't always work, which is why Jefferson will have to really improve his jump shot, but the Spurs only ran these types of plays for him in only 5% of his offense, which was the lowest of any type of plays for Jefferson..


I'll post the rest about his pick & roll play, cutting, rebounding and defense in my next post..it takes a decent amount of time to look up, and I'm about to leave, so I thought I would post the part I already previously wrote before the thread dies..

[ElNono]

Thanks for taking the time to break it down, Harlem... BTW, what analytics product are you using?

[Blackjack]

Good stuff, Harlem. :tu

If you're going to take the time to crunch numbers like that and just put as much time into it in general, you really should just post your own thread. That's work that shouldn't get lost in the shuffle -- it's definitely not something anyone should be butthurt got made into its own thread.

[Blackjack]

Yeah, you paying for Synergy?

[ElNono]

Good stuff, Harlem. :tu

If you're going to take the time to crunch numbers like that and just put as much time into it in general, you really should just post your own thread. That's work that shouldn't get lost in the shuffle -- it's definitely not something anyone should be butthurt got made into its own thread.

Agreed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You did all that to say that his jumpshot sucked?

[mingus]

i'd be fine if the Spurs rolled with a starting lineup of

Parker
Manu (or Hill)
Anderson
Duncan
Splitter

i'd rather have a lineup that is undersized (at least it's in the backcourt, and not the frontcourt, which is more of a problem) than one that doesn't have any chemistry. with a taller froncourt than before, whoever gets to the basket is going to have to deal with Duncan/Splitter, so i don't think it's a huge problem.

RJ's and Tony's games are ment for eachother like Mel Gibson and his wife are ment for eachother. Tony is an average passer, but a great driver - but RJ sucks at shooting so he can't stretch the floor for Tony and needs a PG whose strength is passing. they are a match made in hell, and the team is worse when they're both on the floor a the same time.

put RJ as a sixth man and suddenly things aren't so bad. you could run a second unit of

Hill
Neal
RJ
Dice
Blair


and that's actually a really really good second lineup, and maybe the best in the entire league. Rj would be "the man" in that lineup probably, and he wouldn't have to worry about spreading the floor. and he sucks even more when he's not getting consistent touches, which he he's never going to get with 3 or 4 better scorers (if u include Splitter now) in the starting lineup.

[NRHector]

He better get his shit together becuase if he really stays 4 years with the Spurs like it or not he's going to be one of the leaders of this team.
That's after Tim and Manu retire and Tony leaves, the young ones are going to look up to him for advise, I wonder what type of advise he's going to give if he keeps being a disappointment.

[team-work]

Hats off to posters who spend a lot of time watching games and analyzing players thoroughly! What I have learnt is to read more and post less.

With salary reduction, hope RJ can regroup his focus. Concentrate on defense and rebounding, worry less about scoring. At this point it is almost impossible to change his game and make him an "ideal fit" to the team's style. Just play naturally and avoid making mistakes is already a great improvement over last season's performance.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Jefferson last year :

- a new town
- a new team
- a new system, a very difficult one to learn
- the 2 playmakers of the team supposed to help him scoring points were not themselves : Ginobili struggled for 4 months before being the great Manu again & Parker was not healthy all year.
- Pop tinkering with Spurs' lineups & chemistry all year.
- Jefferson was the 1st option with the bucks, he was the 4th or 5th option with the Spurs... with the 2nd highest salary of the team. He was confused and he put too much pressure on himself.
- and don't forget that Jefferson canceled his wedding just before the season starts. His mind was maybe not totally focused on basketball then. Just sayin'...

I think he will surprise a lot of people this year. He needs to redeem himself and with a healthy big 3, he could succeed.
OK, I am optimistic. So what ? :toast

:toast

[quentin_compson]

Nice stat work, Harlem. :tu

The problem with RJ is that he isn't a good enough shooter for a spot-up shooter/corner three kind of role. On the other hand, his athleticism is already on its way down, making it harder for him to take it to the rim.

I don't think he will really score more PPG this upcoming season, but maybe he will be able to score at least a bit more efficiently.
Another good thing would be if he could play with more confidence and focus, especially on the defensive end when things don't go his way offensively.

In other words, I think the improvement we're going to see will not be a really big one, if at all.

[Obstructed_View]

Manu came off the bench for another reason.

Yeah, because he couldn't beat out Michael Finley.

[Marcus Bryant]

crofl.