History begs to differ on Democratic view of parties tolerance

[DarrinS]

http://www.americanexperiment.org/publications/2000/20000823kersten.php




The numbers tell the story. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 came to a vote after a 57-day filibuster engineered by Southern Democrats among them Sen. Al Gore Sr. father of the current Democratic presidential nominee. (Gore refused to vote to end the filibuster despite a personal plea from President Lyndon Johnson.) In the face of serious Democratic opposition, only strong Republican support could end the filibuster and ensure that the bill became law.

When the final congressional vote was tallied, Republican support exceeded Democratic support by a substantial margin. Eighty percent of House Republicans voted for the Civil Rights Act, but only 63 percent of Democrats. Eighty-two percent of Senate Republicans voted yea, while only 69 percent of Democrats did so.

The vote on these two bills followed a pattern set much earlier. In the 26 major civil rights votes between 1933 and 1964, a majority of Democrats opposed the legislation over 80 percent of the time, while a Republican majority favored it over 96 percent of the time.

[George Gervin's Afro]

member of a right-wing Democratic splinter group in the 1948 U.S. presidential election organized by Southerners who objected to the civil rights program of the Democratic Party. It met at Birmingham, Ala., and on July 17, 1948, nominated Gov. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina for president and Gov. Fielding L. Wright of Mississippi for vice president. The Dixiecrats, who opposed federal regulations they considered to interfere with states’ rights, carried South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Alabama, to receive 39 electoral votes; their popular vote totalled over 1,000,000.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/166817/Dixiecrat

[George Gervin's Afro]

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1751.html

Politics and Public Service, 1948-Present

President Franklin Roosevelt's electoral body in 1945 had included a diverse, in fact contradictory, set of elements — both conservatives and liberals, northern and southern Democrats and Republicans. By 1948, however, the civil rights issue revealed the real philosophical differences between northern and southern Democrats as never before. The move of Southern states from solidly Democrat to solidly Republican began to take place. In that environment, the Dixiecrats and the “Southern Strategy” was born.


At the 1948 Democratic National Convention, a group led by Senator Hubert Humphrey of Minnesota proposed some controversial new civil rights planks of racial integration and the reversal of Jim Crow laws to be included in the party platform. Southern Democrats were dismayed. President Harry S. Truman was caught in the middle for his recent executive order to racially integrate the armed forces. As a compromise, he proposed the adoption of only those planks that had been in the 1944 platform. That was not enough for the liberals. Truman's own civil rights initiatives had made the civil rights debate unavoidable.

The planks were adopted and 35 southern Democrats walked out in protest. They formed the States' Rights Democratic Party, which became popularly known as the Dixiecrats. Their campaign slogan was “Segregation Forever!” Their platform also included “states’ rights” to freedom from governmental interference in an individual's or organization's prerogative to do business with whomever they wanted.

New York moderate Nelson Rockefeller's defeat in the presidential primary election marked the beginning of the end of moderates and liberals in the Republican Party.

Clearer political and ideological lines began to be drawn between the Democrat and Republican parties as moderates and liberals converted from Republican to Democrat. Conservatives in the Democratic Party began to move to the increasingly conservative Republican Party.

Meeting in Birmingham, Alabama, the Dixiecrats nominated South Carolina governor Strom Thurmond as their presidential candidate, and Mississippi governor Field J. Wright, as their vice-presidential nominee. The party platform represented the openly racist views of most white southerners of the time. It opposed abolition of the poll tax while endorsing segregation and the "racial integrity" of each race. In the November election, Thurmond carried the states of Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Although Thurmond did not win the election, he received well over a million popular votes and 39 electoral votes.


By 1952, southern Democrats had concluded that they could exercise more influence through the Democratic Party and therefore returned to the fold. They remained in the Democratic fold, restive, until the candidacy of Republican conservative Barry Goldwater liberated them in 1964 by refreshing some of the Dixiecrat ideologies and therefore accelerated the transition from a solid South for the Democrats to one for the Republicans. Strom Thurmond switched to the Republican Party that year and remained there until his death in December 2003.
Other presidential candidates, such as Republican Richard M. Nixon in 1968, have effectively used the Southern strategy of "states' rights" and racial inequality to garner votes from the racially conservative electorate in the southern states.

[Blake]

http://www.americanexperiment.org/publications/2000/20000823kersten.php

cool website.


Q: What is Center of the American Experiment?

A: Center of the American Experiment is a nonpartisan, tax-exempt, public policy, and educational institution.


Q: What types of events does American Experiment host?

A: American Experiment hosts a variety of public policy events and forums. The two most well known of those events are our Annual Dinner, which is held each spring, and our Fall Briefing. Numerous world leaders have spoken at these events, including Former President George Bush, former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and Margaret Thatcher.


Q: What is American Experiment’s FACT Program and IntellectualTakeout.com?

A: FACT, Foundations in Active Conservative Thinking, is a program of Center of the American Experiment designed to provide students with the tools they need to advocate for conservative ideas and causes on campus.

I like how they blatantly lie about themselves within the first three paragraphs of their FAQ page.

:lmao

[DarrinS]

I like how they blatantly lie about themselves within the first three paragraphs of their FAQ page.

:lmao



Are the figures in the OP wrong? Because I can back them up.

[Winehole23]

@DarrinS:

Would Republicans vote for civil rights bills 96% of the time in the 21st century? Why or why not?

[boutons_deux]

When the South was poor, the South was Democratic, racist, including benighted TX. Then the South "rose again", Brown v Wade, Civil/Voting Rights, segregation outlawed, and Repug Southern Strategy moved the Dem racists to being Repug racists. The Repugs sorta "stole" the southern/border racists from the Dems.

The extreme right-wing tea bagging fringe is racist, just like its 1960s precursor, the John Birch Society.

[Winehole23]

The Repugs sorta "stole" the southern/border racists from the Dems. That's a reach. I'd say they migrated of their own free will.

[boutons_deux]

I didn't say they were forced to be Repugs, but southern/border/rural bubba racists hear the dog whistles and get lathered up on queue.

[DarrinS]

@DarrinS:

Would Republicans vote for civil rights bills 96% of the time in the 21st century? Why or why not?


Is there anything (be specific) that would indicate to you that they wouldn't?


By sheer coincidence, 96% is the same percentage of African-American voters that voted for Obama. I wonder how whites would be viewed if they voted for McCain at such an astonishing rate.

[Blake]

Are the figures in the OP wrong? Because I can back them up.

When I check out the source and find out they are coming from a biased place, it throws up red flags for me.

Feel free to back up the figures in the OP.

[Wild Cobra]

@DarrinS:

Would Republicans vote for civil rights bills 96% of the time in the 21st century? Why or why not?
If they were needed.

[ChumpDumper]

Another disingenuous article.

Why did they stop at 1964?

Please explain, Darrin.

[DarrinS]

Another disingenuous article.

Why did they stop at 1964?

Please explain, Darrin.


Your Google broke?


Besides, what significant civil rights legislation has there been since then?


Please explain.

[DarrinS]

When I check out the source and find out they are coming from a biased place, it throws up red flags for me.

Feel free to back up the figures in the OP.


Your Google broke?

[ChumpDumper]

Your Google broke?That isn't an answer.

I'm asking you why they stopped at 1964.

Please explain.

[Stringer_Bell]

So...it's a good thing to invest ourselves in the past (50 years in the past) when it serves to show the Republican in a positive light, but it's a bad thing to question Republican actions over the last 25 years?

It has, in the normal course of discussion, occured to EVERYONE here that it's silly to pretend either party gives a fuck about anything other than serving its own special interests at any given time in history, right? RIGHT?!?!?!

[DarrinS]

That isn't an answer.

I'm asking you why they stopped at 1964.

Please explain.


What civil rights legislation has been passed since that time?

Please explain.

[ChumpDumper]

Title VII of the 1964 act was expanded upon in 1991. There have been about seven major civil rights laws passed in the period we are discussing. Most having to do with the disabled. Of course there have been numerous laws passed concerning minorities in the meantime as well.

Now, could you tell me if anything happened to the makeup of the two parties as a result of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Please explain.

Or just be a douche and try to run away from it.

[Blake]

Are the figures in the OP wrong? Because I can back them up.


Your Google broke?

No, but you offered to back them up and I'm taking you up on it.

What the fuck is wrong with posters ability to read what they wrote?

[DarrinS]

So...it's a good thing to invest ourselves in the past (50 years in the past) when it serves to show the Republican in a positive light, but it's a bad thing to question Republican actions over the last 25 years?


What actions would those be?


By the way, can anyone tell me how blacks have benefitted from so-called "progressive" policies in the last 40 or so years. I sure know that Democrat politicians have benefitted.

[DarrinS]

No, but you offered to back them up and I'm taking you up on it.

What the fuck is wrong with posters ability to read what they wrote?


The votes are a matter of public record, i.e. you can Google them.

[DarrinS]

Title VII of the 1964 act was expanded upon in 1991. There have been about seven major civil rights laws passed in the period we are discussing. Most having to do with the disabled. Of course there have been numerous laws passed concerning minorities in the meantime as well.

Now, could you tell me if anything happened to the makeup of the two parties as a result of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Please explain.

Or just be a douche and try to run away from it.


Since you seem to know, why don't you stop being a douche and just post it.

[ChumpDumper]

The votes are a matter of public record, i.e. you can Google them.You said YOU could back them up, i.e.:
I can back them up.

[ChumpDumper]

Since you seem to know, why don't you stop being a douche and just post it.So you don't know?

I'll believe you if you admit you are completely ignorant in this matter.

[Blake]

It has, in the normal course of discussion, occured to EVERYONE here that it's silly to pretend either party gives a fuck about anything other than serving its own special interests at any given time in history, right? RIGHT?!?!?!

I'm gonna say no.

Unfortunate.

[DarrinS]

So you don't know?

I'll believe you if you admit you are completely ignorant in this matter.


I'll admit complete ignorance on legislation tagged "civil rights"-related since 1964. Satisfied?


So, are you gonna post something? Or just keep acting like a douche?

[ChumpDumper]

I'll admit complete ignorance on legislation tagged "civil rights"-related since 1964. Satisfied?No.

That wasn't the question.

[DarrinS]

No.

That wasn't the question.

You gonna post something, or not?

[Blake]

So, are you gonna post something? Or just keep acting like a douche?

Are you gonna back up the figures like you offered or ask me if my google is broken again?

Fucking douche.

[Winehole23]

Is there anything (be specific) that would indicate to you that they wouldn't?A lot of conservative southern dems bolted to the GOP. They have not failed to represent the biases of their region or the very real blow back against civil rights jurisprudence in the meantime.



By sheer coincidence, 96% is the same percentage of African-American voters that voted for Obama. I wonder how whites would be viewed if they voted for McCain at such an astonishing rate.Playing the race card, in a counterfactual scenario. Again.

Don't you ever vary your bs, D? :lol

[ChumpDumper]

You gonna post something, or not?
This is the question you are currently dodging.
Now, could you tell me if anything happened to the makeup of the two parties as a result of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?

Please explain.

Or just be a douche and try to run away from it.

[Winehole23]

History begs to differ. Darrin presumes to speak the verdict of history, but apparently was struck dumb by your request for information about the historical context of his own OP.

[DarrinS]

This is the question you are currently dodging.

I don't know the answer to your question, assshat. That's not dodging.


Now, are you gonna post the answer to your "riddle"?

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know the answer to your question, assshat. That's not dodging.So you are expressing complete ignorance on this issue as well?

Excellent.



Now, are you gonna post the answer to your "riddle"?The answer to the question is "yes."

You're welcome.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Darrins

It's disingenious to roll a thread like this and promote that the dems were primarily against the 64 Civil Rights act. Why? Because the main opponents in the dem party at the time became republicans soon there after

[DarrinS]

Another disingenuous article.

Why did they stop at 1964?

Please explain, Darrin.





The answer to the question is "yes."

You're welcome.




"Yes" as an answer to the first question doesn't make any sense.

[Winehole23]

^^^In a small clear voice, confesses his ignorance.

[Winehole23]

How refreshing, but oh, what a comedown from the majesty of the headline!

[DarrinS]

Darrins

It's disingenious to roll a thread like this and promote that the dems were primarily against the 64 Civil Rights act. Why? Because the main opponents in the dem party at the time became republicans soon there after


Strom Thurmond and who else? Jesse Helms? Who else?

[ChumpDumper]

"Yes" as an answer to the first question doesn't make any sense.Because I wasn't answering that question. We were clearly discussing this one:
Now, could you tell me if anything happened to the makeup of the two parties as a result of the Civil Rights Act of 1964?Sorry you can't keep up -- but it certainly does explain why you and the author of this little article would want to stop at 1964.

....you could probably figure it out if you Google it....

[DarrinS]

How refreshing, but oh, what a comedown from the majesty of the headline!

When you drink wine, do you keep your pinky extended?

[clambake]

game, set, match

[DarrinS]

Because I wasn't answering that question. We were clearly discussing this one:Sorry you can't keep up -- but it certainly does explain why you and the author of this little article would want to stop at 1964.

....you could probably figure it out if you Google it....


Evidently, two or three Dems switched to GOP.

Robert KKK Byrd stayed true blue.

[Veterinarian]

ChumpDumper just regulating chumps like he's supposed to. DarrinS, consider yourself regulated son.

[Winehole23]

When you drink wine, do you keep your pinky extended?Nobody drinks wine like that, you jackass.

[ChumpDumper]

Evidently, two or three Dems switched to GOP.So the south remains a staunch Democrat stronghold to this day. This is your contention and you can back it up, right?

[DarrinS]

Nobody drinks wine like that, (expletive deleted). Do you drink much wine, DarrinS?


Wine is for pompous douchebags.

For the record, I also don't tie pastel sweaters around my neck.

[clambake]

you can't afford good wine, can you d?

[Blake]

I remember chicks in high school drinking boone's.

I can confirm that they were pompous douchebags.

[Winehole23]

Wine is for pompous douchebags.I couldn't disagree with you more. You obviously don't spend much time in bars and wineshops.

The one time I saw Pop in person I was delivering wine in SA. Pop was obviously a douchebag, like you say. There to get his douchebag wines, no doubt. How pompous. What a douche.


For the record, I also don't tie pastel sweaters around my neck.For the record, I seldom wear sweaters at all. I cast them aside when I'm done with them. Why do you mention it?

What, you think wine drinking is effete and feminine or something? Have you asked the women in your life to confirm this impression for you? Might be worth checking out sometime, bud.

:wakeup

[ChumpDumper]

Certainly Darrin can look Google the vote for the 1991 Civil Rights Act that addressed Title VII of the 1964 act and tell us the partisan makeup of the opposition to its passage in the Senate, can't he?

[Winehole23]

I remember chicks in high school drinking boone's.

I can confirm that they were pompous douchebags.Fine, wine is for douchebags. Douchebags drink wine. Please don't blame that all on wine, is all I'm saying.

[Blake]

Certainly Darrin can look Google the vote for the 1991 Civil Rights Act that addressed Title VII of the 1964 act and tell us the partisan makeup of the opposition to its passage in the Senate, can't he?

I'm thinking his google suddenly broke

[Blake]

Fine, wine is for douchebags. Douchebags drink wine. Please don't blame that all on wine, is all I'm saying.

just curious, how much do you think wine should cost before it's really considered "wine".

Also, is moscato a true wine?

[DarrinS]

I'm thinking his google suddenly broke


Actually, I'm more than capable of finding the information, so I won't ask someone to do it for me.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually, I'm more than capable of finding the information, so I won't ask someone to do it for me.So, are you going to find it?

[DarrinS]

Fine, wine is for douchebags. Douchebags drink wine. Please don't blame that all on wine, is all I'm saying.

I remember when everyone was saying how great the movie "Sideways" was. When I watched it, I kept waiting for the good parts.

[Veterinarian]

I remember when everyone was saying how great the movie "Sideways" was. When I watched it, I kept waiting for the good parts.

Kinda like how I feel when I look through your posts tbh.

[DarrinS]

Kinda like how I feel when I look through your posts tbh.


Oh great, another nut hugger remora like clambake.

[Blake]

Actually, I'm more than capable of finding the information, so I won't ask someone to do it for me.

Actually, you won't post the information even after you offered to do so.

I found all the information I need to form my opinion that the article in the OP and this thread both are failures.

[Winehole23]

just curious, how much do you think wine should cost before it's really considered "wine". No set price. Your tastebuds will disclose your tolerance or aversion to cheaper wines. I like more than a few.


Also, is moscato a true wine?Oh yes.

The usual process is to cold-stop the fermentation, leading to a low alcohol result and residual sweetness. I don't drink a lot of sweet wine these days, but I do like sweet and think moscato -- properly cold, right? -- is refreshing. (Plus, bubbles are just fun. )

[DarrinS]

Actually, you won't post the information even after you offered to do so.

I found all the information I need to form my opinion that the article in the OP and this thread both are failures.



Some site dedicated to the history of congress appears to have the same data.


http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_histmats_civilrights64text.htm





The Republican Party was not so badly split as the Democrats by the civil rights issue. Only one Republican senator participated in the filibuster against the bill. In fact, since 1933, Republicans had a more positive record on civil rights than the Democrats. In the twenty-six major civil rights votes since 1933, a majority of Democrats opposed civil rights legislation in over 80 % of the votes. By contrast, the Republican majority favored civil rights in over 96 % of the votes.

[ChumpDumper]

Some site dedicated to the history of congress appears to have the same data.


http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_histmats_civilrights64text.htmSo history basically stops for you in 1964. Nothing at all has happened since then.

[LnGrrrR]

Your Google broke?


Besides, what significant civil rights legislation has there been since then?


Please explain.

I can think of some gay civil rights legislation that's come up recently... as well as some various other legislation, like the Lily Ledbetter fair pay act.

Do you recall how many Republicans voted for that fair pay act, DarrinS?

[Winehole23]

(I like the still botrytized versions too. )

BTW, what exactly do you mean by true wine, Blake? I'm just assuming you meant juice from [I]vinifera only.

Is that what you meant?

[Blake]

Some site dedicated to the history of congress appears to have the same data.


http://www.congresslink.org/print_basics_histmats_civilrights64text.htm

eh same stuff.

I think what's disingenuous about the article you posted is the way the voting on bills like the CRA was separated out by the author into Democrats and Republicans instead of northerners and southerners.

What exactly is the Democratic view of parties tolerance as you know it?

[LnGrrrR]

Strom Thurmond and who else? Jesse Helms? Who else?

Good point. It's not like Strom Thurmond really had any power in the Republican party, and he was rightfully marginalized by the Republican party.

[CosmicCowboy]

No set price. Your tastebuds will disclose your tolerance or aversion to cheaper wines. I like more than a few.



Personally I think the high end wines can get a little pretentious and ridiculously expensive but like you, my taste buds rebel at the really low end table wines...I can usually find a reasonable compromise in the $10 range...My current favorite as a compromise for price/taste is a 2006 Terrazas Reserve Malbec. Very nice. I recently bought several cases.

[LnGrrrR]

DarrinS post template:

Link to an article
Produce a strawman
Claim evidence
Force others to do research
Create another strawman
Create a strawman off the 2nd strawman when 2nd strawman is rebunked
Meaningless trite remark

Claim victory

[LnGrrrR]

And everyone knows that the best wines are Mad Dog 20/20 and Boones... :lol

[Blake]

(I like the still botrytized versions too. )

BTW, what exactly do you mean by true wine, Blake? I'm just assuming you meant juice from [I]vinifera only.

Is that what you meant?

Yeah, I'm referring to dessert wines and "kid" wines like boone's strawberry hill and other koolaid flavors that run $3 a bottle......

[DarrinS]

DarrinS post template:

Link to an article
Produce a strawman
Claim evidence
Force others to do research
Create another strawman
Create a strawman off the 2nd strawman when 2nd strawman is rebunked
Meaningless trite remark

Claim victory


If by "force others to do research" you mean that I refuse to Google for others, then I'm guilty as charged.

[Winehole23]

For the international palate, South America delivers on quality and price for sure. (I like em, but it's not really my thing. I'm more into old wine and things I've never tried before.)

[CosmicCowboy]

So anyone in here make their own wine? I've planted about 300' of grapevines so far (two varieties) that should start bearing next year. I'm looking forward to playing with it. I'm hoping to put up a decent table wine.

[Winehole23]

Yeah, I'm referring to dessert wines and "kid" wines like boone's strawberry hill and other koolaid flavors that run $3 a bottle......Two different things. Moscato is made from the grape of the same name; Boone's Farm is flavored apple wine, take em or leave em.

For example, in France it would probably be a jailhouse crime to call flavored apple wine "wine" on the label. But here, it's totally halal, with the detriment to wine's reputability you just high-lighted.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'll probably at least double that next year. I'm going to root a ton of new plants when I prune this fall.

[LnGrrrR]

If by "force others to do research" you mean that I refuse to Google for others, then I'm guilty as charged.

If you claim evidence Darrin, then it is your burden to prove it. That's just debating 101. I could claim the moon was made out of cheese, but it's my burden to prove that, not yours. That's what prevents people from making asinine claims in the first place. Why should I take the time to look for something you already previously found?

Do your term papers have "Go to a library"? written in the bibliography?

[Winehole23]

So anyone in here make their own wine? I've planted about 300' of grapevines so far (two varieties) that should start bearing next year. I'm looking forward to playing with it. I'm hoping to put up a decent table wine.Nice. I'd be interested to hear how it goes.

What did you plant, and in what general area of Texas, may i ask?

[baseline bum]

DarrinS post template:

Link to an article
Produce a strawman
Claim evidence
Force others to do research
Create another strawman
Create a strawman off the 2nd strawman when 2nd strawman is rebunked
Meaningless trite remark

Claim victory

At least DarrinS' wine's for fags tangent has saved the thread.

[Stringer_Bell]

What actions would those be?

I was referring to their actions in general over the past 10 years or so, not neccessarily regarding race but in the direction they've pushed the country or attempted to focus our attention on useless shit (which, of course, the Democrats are also guilty of). I thought about just keeping it to that period of time from 2000-2010, since that's where most of the criticism comes from, but then I recalled how Reagan's economic policies were also a strong source of contention. A bit off topic, but it flows with the statements I gave after it about how neither party really gives a fuck. :king

[Winehole23]

At least DarrinS' wine's for fags tangent has saved the thread.Your silver lining, not mine.

[Winehole23]

If by "force others to do research" you mean that I refuse to Google for others, then I'm guilty as charged.It's your ongoing refusal to back up your own bs that really grates.

[CosmicCowboy]

Nice. I'd be interested to hear how it goes.

What did you plant, and in what general area of Texas, may i ask?

My place is South of SA Between Poteet and Devine. About 10 miles south of Somerset if you know where that is.

So far I've got two rows of 16 vines each. Obviously on trellis wire and I'm cordon pruning. They are on a drip irrigation system.

One row is a hybrid of "Black Spanish" which is also known as "Lenoir". The hybrid is called "Favorite".

The other row is a hybrid developed at the University of Florida called "Conquistador". As far as I know I'm the only one in Texas growing Conquistador right now...

Both are Pierce resistant red seeded grapes good both for table grapes and wine.

I've been EXTREMELY pleased with how healthy they are and how quickly they have grown. I have used ZERO fertilize or pesticide which is UNHEARD of for grapes in Texas.

The "favorite" grapes tend to be bold and acidic and the "conquistador" milder and sweeter. I'll be working towards a suitable blend of the two.

I'll probably plant another 60 or so vines next spring if my cuttings root.

[clambake]

the birther has morphed to emo.

[CosmicCowboy]

the birther has morphed to emo.

huh?

[clambake]

huh?

not you, cowboy.

[Winehole23]

My place is South of SA Between Poteet and Devine. About 10 miles south of Somerset if you know where that is.

So far I've got two rows of 16 vines each. Obviously on trellis wire and I'm cordon pruning. They are on a drip irrigation system.

One row is a hybrid of "Black Spanish" which is also known as "Lenoir". The hybrid is called "Favorite".I've had Black Spanish a handful of times. Unique flavor.


The other row is a hybrid developed at the University of Florida called "Conquistador". As far as I know I'm the only one in Texas growing Conquistador right now...

Both are Pierce resistant red seeded grapes good both for table grapes and wine. Neat stuff, CC.


I've been EXTREMELY pleased with how healthy they are and how quickly they have grown. I have used ZERO fertilize or pesticide which is UNHEARD of for grapes in Texas.

The "favorite" grapes tend to be bold and acidic and the "conquistador" milder and sweeter. I'll be working towards a suitable blend of the two.

I'll probably plant another 60 or so vines next spring if my cuttings root.Acidic brightness accompanies food and is a must for sweet wines; smoother wines sometimes taste better on all their own.

Table/jug wine:Proprietor's Reserve wine:: .......

Some commercial outfits wait until the fourth or fifth leaf before they bottle it, but there's no reason at all you should.

Good luck with all that CC. Sounds like you'll have some fun. :hat

[Winehole23]

Y'all have red sand there?

[CosmicCowboy]

It's a red sand/clay mix. 7.5 PH.

[CosmicCowboy]

Acidic brightness accompanies food and is a must for sweet wines; smoother wines sometimes taste better on all their own.

Table/jug wine:Proprietor's Reserve wine:: .......

Some commercial outfits wait until the fourth or fifth leaf before they bottle it, but there's no reason at all you should.

Thats why I started relatively small. I wanted to make sure they would be healthy and hardy here. Like I said, I've been really pleased.

I've also planted about a hundred olive trees. About half Arbequenas, some Missions, Manzanillas, Lecchinos and a few Pendolino's for fertilization.

[Winehole23]

I suppose you have the olive press, too. Or do you just borrow a neighbor's? :lol:toast

[Blake]

Are the figures in the OP wrong? Because I can back them up.


If by "force others to do research" you mean that I refuse to Google for others, then I'm guilty as charged.

you're guilty of being an asshat liar.

[CosmicCowboy]

I suppose you have the olive press, too. Or do you just borrow a neighbor's? :lol:toast

Nope. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do there yet. I might make one. I'm pretty technically proficient.

[Winehole23]

That's what prevents people from making asinine claims in the first place. Not everybody.


Do your term papers have "Go to a library"? written in the bibliography?To be fair, that is what a bibliography is for. So you can check. :lol

[Winehole23]

Nope. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do there yet. I might make one. I'm pretty technically proficient.Do olives fruit right away, or does it take em awhile?

[DarrinS]

you're guilty of being an asshat liar.

Are my pants on fire too?

[Winehole23]

No. You're self-depantsing.

[CosmicCowboy]

Do olives fruit right away, or does it take em awhile?

Mine will be 3 years old next year and should have some blooms/fruit. They really start to produce at 5 and then can live hundreds of years.

[Winehole23]

Neat stuff. You got it all, CC.

Why are you wasting your time here? :lol:toast

[Parker2112]

Neat stuff. You got it all, CC.

Why are you wasting your time here? :lol:toast

Winehole, watch the film I posted, and then get back to me.

[Winehole23]

Winehole, watch the film I posted, and then get back to me.I'm on my own sked. I'll get around to it, eh?

[CosmicCowboy]

Neat stuff. You got it all, CC.

Why are you wasting your time here? :lol:toast

Eh, gotta do my 50 hours a week in my office paying for it all.

[LnGrrrR]

Not everybody.

To be fair, that is what a bibliography is for. So you can check. :lol

Yes, but the bibliography lists what you researched, which is what we ask of DarrinS. If asked about the details of his report, and where he found them, DarrinS would tell his profe to go to the library. :lol

[Winehole23]

He does that every day, and we are not even profes.

[Winehole23]

(Maybe that's why he thinks he can get away with it.)

[Winehole23]

Doesn't give us much credit, does he? :lol

[Wild Cobra]

So anyone in here make their own wine? I've planted about 300' of grapevines so far (two varieties) that should start bearing next year. I'm looking forward to playing with it. I'm hoping to put up a decent table wine.
I've made a non-fruit wine before, called mead. came out at 15.3%.

[spursncowboys]

Me and my wife are going to a winery tonight. Any suggestions on what to drink.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Me and my wife are going to a winery tonight. Any suggestions on what to drink.

I feel really sorry for your wife

[spursncowboys]

classy as always.

[Winehole23]

Me and my wife are going to a winery tonight. Any suggestions on what to drink.My advice: try everything, if you can. Wineries usually give out 1oz. pours for free. Your tastebuds will take it from there.

[Winehole23]

Thats why I started relatively small. I wanted to make sure they would be healthy and hardy here. Like I said, I've been really pleased.Mr. Todd Anderson (of Anderson's Conn Valley Vineyards, in St. Helena CA, about halfway up Rossi Road) put it to me this way one time in (or around: Been to the 4E?) McAllen TX: he tries not to grow more grapes than he can bring in and crush all by himself at one time.

[Winehole23]

He tops out around 12k cases/year at CVV, last I checked.

(Killer juice. Vin de garde (http://www.decanter.com/learning/glossary.php), not only approachable but very pleasing while still young..)