Obamanomics 101: Failure Explained

[spursncowboys]

Obamanomics 101: Failure Explained

According to President Obama, “every economist who’s looked at it says that the Recovery Act has done its job.” The four economists gathered at the National Press Club on Tuesday were apparently not asked for their opinions on the matter.

Tuesday’s program, “Debt and Deficits: Implications for U.S. and Global Economic Recovery,” featured a panel of academics who addressed not only the unsustainable rate of spending but also legislative solutions to rein in the $13 trillion debt. Naturally, to remedy any situation, it is essential to understand the source of the problem.

That problem is ignoring the second half of the Keynesian model: Spending must be financed, and long-term financing results in rising debt. Veronique DeRugy, a Senior Research Fellow at George Mason University’s Mercatus Center, explains that “in Keynesian thought, a fall in economic demand causes a fall in spending.” A decrease in spending makes a nation poorer; thus when the government makes budget cuts, the result is job loss. That seems pretty uncontroversial, but Keynesians argue that government spending can take the place of private spending to revitalize demand and economic growth. So, does it work?

DeRugy cites a study by Harvard’s Robert Barro and Charles Redlick in which they analyze the effects of government spending on the overall economy, using defense spending as a proxy. Barro and Redlick concluded that one dollar of government spending results in a growth in GDP of 40–70 cents—a strong negative relationship between government size and economic growth. In other words, not a very savvy investment.

The ultimate test case for the Keynesian model, of course, is the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which promised that 3.5 million private sector jobs would be created at a price of $787 billion. The President warned that if the stimulus were not signed into law, the country could face 8.8 percent unemployment.
One only needs the post-enactment facts in order to ascertain the success of the stimulus bill:

862,000 jobs created at an average cost of $282,000 per public sector job and $647,000 per private sector job
Four of five jobs created are in the public sector
Government spending is not correlated to areas of high unemployment, and
The rate of unemployment has reached 9.3 percent after peaking at 10 percent.
The facts confirm the Barro and Redlick—and countless others’—research. The Keynesian model didn’t work in the case of the current recession, and even if one accepts the stimulus as an a priori good, it is unsustainable at its current rate. According to David Primo, associate professor at the University or Rochester, “Bailing out states rewards their bad behavior.” When states receive federal funds to sustain their spending habits, they are not forced to “face the music” and engage in budget reform. Essentially, it is that budgetary reform that targets the source of the financial crisis and will ultimately fix it.

What form should state and federal budget overhaul take? Primo suggests a Constitutional Budgetary Rule that is broad in scope, has few escape clauses, and affords minimal accounting discretion. Such a rule would create the congressional commitment and external enforcement that render current efforts to cut spending ineffective. Without strong external enforcement and minimal loopholes, reform proposals are “gimmicks at worst, band-aids at best,” says Primo.
When states are faced with the task of cutting spending, they will have to make unpleasant and politically unpopular choices, but those choices are easier to make before Congress faces a fiscal emergency that will force its hand. A gradual cut in spending and the necessary corollary decrease in entitlements will also be easier for the public to swallow.

That is why Miron, Primo, and DeRugy propose that serious budget reform begin now, gradually cutting spending over the course of time. Cutting entitlements will be unavoidable because “even if we slashed [all spending] except for unemployment, it would only buy us a few years until we reach credit default,” says Miron. In fact, he suggests a Social Security freeze while phasing out other programs.

After, or in conjunction with, the initial spending reductions, Bruce Yandle, former Executive Director of the Federal Trade Commission, suggests a strict budgetary statute or the kind constitutional of amendment Primo proposes. A constitutional amendment on the federal level may be unlikely, but states could more feasibly enact such a measure, spurring economic growth.

The stimulus bill failed to do just that: spur economic growth. Yandle explains what is at stake if the deficit continues to grow:

[The average family’s] private world will contract while the public sector expands. Their expectations for future wealth and prosperity will gradually be revised. And they will not likely know that deficits and public debt led to these results.

In the wake of a failed stimulus package, one might think that “if at first you don’t succeed” doesn’t apply to the logic of economics. Think again, because the Administration is pushing a second, larger stimulus bill. That’s Obamanomics.

Cristina Goizueta is currently a member of the Young Leaders Program at the Heritage Foundation. For more information on interning at Heritage, please visit: http://www.heritage.org/about/departments/ylp.cfm

[fraga]

It's always hard to fix other peoples fuck ups...

[George Gervin's Afro]

It's always hard to fix other peoples fuck ups...

No you don't understand, the economy was booming before the socialist took over..

[spursncowboys]

in one minute i doubt you read it. thanks for the posts. It adds so much to this specific topic and isn't a one sided slanted generalization that has no true facts to base it on.

[George Gervin's Afro]

in one minute i doubt you read it. thanks for the posts. It adds so much to this specific topic and isn't a one sided slanted generalization that has no true facts to base it on.

sincerley,

the guy who started another thread that contains a one sided, slanted generalization that is not based in any truth or fact


:lmao

[fraga]

Yeah 1 year is not enough time to fix 8 years of fuck ups...

[spursncowboys]

One cannot comprehend. The other cannot add. Neither can read or they would read the article. Instead they cower away in nonsense.

[Wild Cobra]

One cannot comprehend. The other cannot add. Neither can read or they would read the article. Instead they cower away in nonsense.
That's because their party is senseless.

[fraga]

It's fun to come back without even reading or knowing the facts and just blindly defend your side...now I see why the other side responds like this all the time...it's easy and fun...

[fraga]

Oh I forgot...we had a surplus before Bush...but now look where we are...

[Yonivore]

Oh I forgot...we had a surplus before Bush...but now look where we are...
Unemployment is worse that even Obama said it would be if HIS recovery plan wasn't implemented.

The deficit is quadruple what it was under Bush.

So, when does he start fixing things?

[fraga]

Katrina happened under Bush...this is addicting...

[boutons_deux]

What Heritage doesn't say is that the deficit that they are using to whine about spending and budget is almost completely due to Repug tax cuts and botched, bogus wars.

btw, national security spending has ballooned from $30/2001 to $75/now. Was that $45B paid for by cuts elsewhere? Anybody feel safer? Any lives saved? Any privacy left?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Unemployment is worse that even Obama said it would be if HIS recovery plan wasn't implemented.

The deficit is quadruple what it was under Bush.

So, when does he start fixing things?

does the economy growing count as fixin?

[fraga]

Bush spent 487 days at Camp David and 490 days at his Ranch in Texas instead of the White House...

[George Gervin's Afro]

Bush spent 487 days at Camp David and 490 days at his Ranch in Texas instead of the White House...

you've obviuosly missed the obama vacation threads...it's like the dead enders were born on or after 1/20/2009


of course they would tell you Bush never stopped working on his vacations...

[fraga]

Bush falsely invaded Iraq which has cost more than $300 billion dollars...

[spursncowboys]

According to President Obama, “every economist who’s looked at it says that the Recovery Act has done its job.” The four economists gathered at the National Press Club on Tuesday were apparently not asked for their opinions on the matter.:lol of course if he asks no one, then no one disagrees with him.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Bush falsely invaded Iraq which has cost more than $300 billion dollars...

don't forget the billions lost in iraq... that was soooooo yesterday..


Let's not bring up the unecessary 5,000 dead GIs...

Obama is a socialist!!!

[Yonivore]

does the economy growing count as fixin?
Depends on where its growing and how that growth is calculated...

But, no, it doesn't count.

Millions more than Obama promised would be, are unemployed after he said his stimulus package would reverse the trend.

Trillions more in debt on a recovery that economists say is not working.

Hell, even Democrats and Bernanke are imploring Obama not to let the Bush tax cuts expire.

Why? Because they know it will wreck what's left of public confidence.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Depends on where its growing and how that growth is calculated...

But, no, it doesn't count.

Millions more than Obama promised would be, are unemployed after he said his stimulus package would reverse the trend.

Trillions more in debt on a recovery that economists say is not working.

Hell, even Democrats and Bernanke are imploring Obama not to let the Bush tax cuts expire.

Why? Because they know it will wreck what's left of public confidence.

I never knew the US economy could be explained in 3 sentences.. thanks for the education.

Don't worry Yoni your side is doing their part to make things sound as dire as possible..

[spursncowboys]

If it was working, there would be jobs. therefor no need to extend the unemployment welfare program.

[Yonivore]

If it was working, there would be jobs. therefor no need to extend the unemployment welfare program.
Not only would there be jobs...there'd be more jobs than there were when this "recovery" was instituted.

That was the promise.

[Yonivore]

I never knew the US economy could be explained in 3 sentences.. thanks for the education.

Don't worry Yoni your side is doing their part to make things sound as dire as possible..
The truth is pretty dire, right now.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If it was working, there would be jobs. therefor no need to extend the unemployment welfare program.

so then you acknowledge that unemployment insurance is necessary because their are no new jobs..and you support the extension the republicans just fought against...

[George Gervin's Afro]

The truth is pretty dire, right now.

Keep hoping it gets worse so your side wins:toast

[Yonivore]

Keep hoping it gets worse so your side wins:toast

I keep hoping someone besides Obama and the Democrats will win so it'll get better.

[spursncowboys]

so then you acknowledge that unemployment insurance is necessary because their are no new jobs..and you support the extension the republicans just fought against...
so you are unable to comprehend?

[Yonivore]

so then you acknowledge that unemployment insurance is necessary because their are no new jobs..and you support the extension the republicans just fought against...
Unemployment has become another entitlement.

So, how many weeks of unemployment is enough, GGA?

[Yonivore]

Speaking of Obamanomics...

Here's a prime example of in what liberal tax and spend policies result:

Sen. John Kerry skips town on sails tax (http://bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=1269698)

The so-called "evil" rich (from which Obama and his ilk want to tax the living shit out of) just find ways to shelter their money.

Liberal Democrat John Kerry is depriving the Massachussets tax coffers of $500,000 through his little -- probably legal -- scheme.

[fraga]

Obama scares so many it's hilarious...yet when the town dolt who could barely grasp the English language was in place for 8 years...they cheered...how sad the country has become...when an educated President is in power...and reaches out to the other side to fix things...what do they do...say "NO" to every suggestion he has...way to go guys...that's one hell of a strategy..

[Yonivore]

Obama scares so many it's hilarious...yet when the town dolt who could barely grasp the English language was in place for 8 years...they cheered...how sad the country has become...when an educated President is in power...and reaches out to the other side to fix things...what do they do...say "NO" to every suggestion he has...way to go guys...that's one hell of a strategy..
An smart president wouldn't push for a oil drilling moratorium -- against the educated advisers' advice -- that will put 20,000 people out of work and solve nothing.

There's a difference between educated and smart.

[fraga]

So you want to continue a process...in which the industry has absolutely no fucking clue how to fix if and when they'll fuck up...that's smart how...




There's a difference between educated and smart.

That's true...Bush was neither...

[Yonivore]

So you want to continue a process...in which the industry has absolutely no fucking clue how to fix if and when they'll fuck up...that's smart how...
It appears fixed.

Plus, Obama's moratorium affect rigs that were in no danger of experiencing a similar problem because they're not deep-water rigs ... and, it failed to include other deep water rigs that could potential have similar blow-outs.

All he's managed to do is run off and industry that employed tens of thousands of Americans.

That's neither smart nor educated.

[fraga]

It's funny how you see what you want to see...do you realize how much damage that well that "appears fixed" has caused and will continue to cause for years...that accident brought to light how little advancement in clean up technology that industry has made...

[Yonivore]

It's funny how you see what you want to see...do you realize how much damage that well that "appears fixed" has caused and will continue to cause for years...that accident brought to light how little advancement in clean up technology that industry has made...
Damage that could have been mitigated if the Obama administration had taken some very fundamental steps at the outset of the spill.

But, if the IXTOC I spill of the 70's is any lesson, the Gulf Coast will recover more quickly than any of the more dire predictions.

I doubt the effects of the spill will outlast the effects of the unemployment being caused by the moratorium.

[spursncowboys]

Never waste a crisis.

[fraga]

It's as if the right doesn't care about anything if it's not directly affecting them...I have a job...no need to extend jobless benefits...I don't live near the gulf...keep on drilling...if something happens...it's okay...I don't live there...

[Yonivore]

It's as if the right doesn't care about anything if it's not directly affecting them...I have a job...no need to extend jobless benefits...
Eventually you run out of people that are able to continue supporting jobless benefits. Then what?


I don't live near the gulf...keep on drilling...if something happens...it's okay...I don't live there...
Lived there more than half my life still own property there.

Unemployment on the Gulf Coast is a bigger blight inducer than an oil spill, even one of this magnitude.

[spursncowboys]

It's as if the right doesn't care about anything if it's not directly affecting them...I have a job...no need to extend jobless benefits...I don't live near the gulf...keep on drilling...if something happens...it's okay...I don't live there...
the deficit that increased because the dems refuse to find a way to pay-go (remember their pledge in 06?) for the jobless welfare affects everyone, including me and my children and grandchildren.

[fraga]

Really...that's why we're in such a huge deficit...it has nothing to do with the fact that Bush took a massive surplus and turned it into a huge deficit...it's because of the Democrats...really....REALLY...

[George Gervin's Afro]

the deficit that increased because the dems refuse to find a way to pay-go (remember their pledge in 06?) for the jobless welfare affects everyone, including me and my children and grandchildren.

but you just said their were no jobs..now you're against unemployment benefits? 10 minutes ago you were explaining to me that the unemployment extension was proof there were no jobs...:lmao

[LnGrrrR]

Ok, I liked the fact-based analysis that pointed out each dollar spent on gov earns us 40 to 70 cents. (Though I'm no economist, and not sure if the Defense Budget is the best place to use as a comparison.)

However, one question: I thought there was no way to determine how many jobs were created? How did they get a specific number?

[LnGrrrR]

Unemployment has become another entitlement.

So, how many weeks of unemployment is enough, GGA?

I would say 2 months should be the limit. What's the limit set to?

[spursncowboys]

Really...that's why we're in such a huge deficit...it has nothing to do with the fact that Bush took a massive surplus and turned it into a huge deficit...it's because of the Democrats...really....REALLY...
how exactly did bush spend that surplus. also you are talking about the projected budget surplus right?

[spursncowboys]

but you just said their were no jobs..now you're against unemployment benefits? 10 minutes ago you were explaining to me that the unemployment extension was proof there were no jobs...:lmao
do you really think you got me on that one troll? why didn't the dems use the left over money from the stimulus? why didn't they find a way to pay for this? why have all of the dems bills be unable to lower the unemployment? why are we out of a recession and still need unemployment welfare?

[spursncowboys]

Ok, I liked the fact-based analysis that pointed out each dollar spent on gov earns us 40 to 70 cents. (Though I'm no economist, and not sure if the Defense Budget is the best place to use as a comparison.)

However, one question: I thought there was no way to determine how many jobs were created? How did they get a specific number?
they definitely have no way to find out how many were saved, but they do. Has Barry created more jobs in the past two years, than have been lost(taking out govt. jobs)?

[ChumpDumper]

An smart president wouldn't push for a oil drilling moratorium -- against the educated advisers' advice -- that will put 20,000 people out of work and solve nothing.

There's a difference between educated and smart.20,000 people work on 33 wells?

I call bullshit.


HOUSTON (Dow Jones)--Schlumberger Ltd. (SLB) said Friday a six-month drilling ban the federal government ordered in the Gulf of Mexico following the Deepwater Horizon oil disaster is unlikely to have a long-term impact in the area.

Speaking to analysts in a conference call, Chief Executive Andrew Gould said the business outlook for the Gulf is still uncertain but it's unlikely the moratorium will "significantly" hurt offshore oil and gas drilling activity, which is a key indicator of oil-field-services demand.

"In deepwater activity elsewhere, we have not seen, nor do we expect to see, any significant delays or program reductions as a result of the U.S. Gulf of Mexico drilling moratorium," Gould said. "In the deepwater Gulf of Mexico, we are not planning for any resumption of drilling activity this year."

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100723-707410.html

[ChumpDumper]

how exactly did bush spend that surplus.Tax cuts and wars.

[spursncowboys]

Tax cuts and wars.

A tax cut doesn't cost anything.

[ChumpDumper]

A tax cut doesn't cost anything.:lmao

You lack fundamental knowledge about how a budget works. I hope your wife handles the money in your famiily.

[spursncowboys]

You lack fundamental knowledge.

[clambake]

:I hope your wife handles the money in your famiily.

what money?

[ChumpDumper]

You lack fundamental knowledge.So you wouldn't mind taking a sizable cut to your income. After all, it would cost you nothing.

You can try to rehash the lie that tax cuts result in higher revenues, but it doesn't work out that way. Add to that the fact that Bush and the Republicans increased the budget at the same time, you get higher deficits.

The same thing is happening now under Obama. The only reason you are upset about it now is that it isn't your team ruining things.

[Spawn]

A tax cut doesn't cost anything.

How did you reach this conclusion?

[spursncowboys]

logic

[ChumpDumper]

logicExplain this "logic."

[spursncowboys]

So you wouldn't mind taking a sizable cut to your income. After all, it would cost you nothing.

You can try to rehash the lie that tax cuts result in higher revenues, but it doesn't work out that way. Add to that the fact that Bush and the Republicans increased the budget at the same time, you get higher deficits.

The same thing is happening now under Obama. The only reason you are upset about it now is that it isn't your team ruining things.
I already take a cut of my income.
Maybe if would like to post about all this nonsense you speak of, you should make an op. Why can you not post about this op here?

[spursncowboys]

what money?
:lol aren't you a trust fund baby?

[ChumpDumper]

I already take a cut of my income.So?

According to you, having less money coming in wouldn't cost you anything.

Were you lying or just wrong?


Maybe if would like to post about all this nonsense you speak of, you should make an op. Why can you not post about this op here?Maybe you can explain your "logic" that led you to conclude tax cuts don't cost anything.

Unless you think your logic is nonsense.

[spursncowboys]

So?

According to you, having less money coming in wouldn't cost you anything.

Were you lying or just wrong?

Maybe you can explain your "logic" that led you to conclude tax cuts don't cost anything.

Unless you think your logic is nonsense.
You're associating money I earned through work with money the govt. is taxing at a certain rate. illogical. wrong. fail.

[ChumpDumper]

You're associating money I earned through work with money the govt. is taxing at a certain rate. illogical. wrong. fail.I am comparing one budget to another budget.

In both budgets, money comes in and money is spent.

It's an extremely logical comparison.

Sorry it makes you mad that you can't explain what you call your logic, but I'll ask you again to explain your logic that tax cuts don't cost anything.

[spursncowboys]

I am comparing one budget to another budget.

In both budgets, money comes in and money is spent.

It's an extremely logical comparison.

Sorry it makes you mad that you can't explain what you call your logic, but I'll ask you again to explain your logic that tax cuts don't cost anything.
Ok what is a tax cut?

[spursncowboys]

Actually no what are taxes?

[ChumpDumper]

Ok what is a tax cut?For the purposes of a federal budget, a decrease in money coming in.


Actually no what are taxes?For the purposes of a federal budget, money coming in.

Why are you not explaining your logic?

[ChumpDumper]

My logic is this: the cost of large tax cuts is an large increase in the federal deficit.

Your logic is, what? You don't like taxes so you can pretend the federal government doesn't need any money?

[spursncowboys]

:lol Nevermind. Good job trolls.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Nevermind. Good job trolls.So you can't explain your logic.

Good job.

[CosmicCowboy]

My logic is this: the cost of large tax cuts is an large increase in the federal deficit.

Your logic is, what? You don't like taxes so you can pretend the federal government doesn't need any money?

Federal deficits are the result of expenditures being greater than revenue.

Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty.

The political electoral process encourages ever increasing spending.

Continuing to increase spending and taxes endlessly is simply not feasible.

The real question is how much tax is enough for the Federal government to do the job it is tasked with in the constitution.

I say they already take a big enough slice of the GDP.

You say they don't.

It's currently 28.2%. I say that should be enough for the Feds to do the job they are constitutionally obligated to do.

How much do you want Chump?

35%? 50%? 75%?

How much is enough?

[DMX7]

A tax cut doesn't cost anything.

Would a tax cut to 0% cost anything?

[Yonivore]

Would a tax cut to 0% cost anything?
Technically speaking, no.

[DMX7]

How much is enough?

How about back to what it was before the tax cuts? The man you voted for president opposed those tax cuts, and now it's suddenly socialism or communism to restore the tax rates to what they were before the tax cuts?

[spursncowboys]

Why don't they keep the tax cuts? They aren't paying for anything they do anyway. Why keep the charade going?

[Yonivore]

How about back to what it was before the tax cuts? The man you voted for president opposed those tax cuts, and now it's suddenly socialism or communism to restore them?
DMX7, you could tax everyone at 100% and it wouldn't be enough to pay for the programs now in place.

The point is, raising taxes isn't going to solve anything. Controlling spending and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse are the only solutions.

Tax policy and spending policy really need to be two separate conversations.

John Kerry gave us the latest example of what happens when you raise taxes beyond a certain level. Instead of docking his brand new yacht in Massachussets and paying the $500,000 sales tax, he docked elsewhere -- where, I presume, the taxes aren't so punitive.

This is an example of how higher taxes actually results in lower tax revenue. Simply raising taxes doesn't increase revenue and, at some point, it actually causes taxpayers to shelter assets and incomes where their tax obligation is actually lower.

[Winehole23]

They aren't paying for anything they do anyway. Why keep the charade going?Good point, soldier.

[CosmicCowboy]

How about back to what it was before the tax cuts? The man you voted for president opposed those tax cuts, and now it's suddenly socialism or communism to restore them?

You can sure tell the ones in here that don't pay taxes. It's never enough as long as someone else pays them.

[DMX7]

DMX7, you could tax everyone at 100% and it wouldn't be enough to pay for the programs now in place.

The point is, raising taxes isn't going to solve anything. Controlling spending and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse are the only solutions.

Tax policy and spending policy really need to be two separate conversations.

John Kerry gave us the latest example of what happens when you raise taxes beyond a certain level. Instead of docking his brand new yacht in Massachussets and paying the $500,000 sales tax, he docked elsewhere -- where, I presume, the taxes aren't so punitive.

This is an example of how higher taxes actually results in lower tax revenue. Simply raising taxes doesn't increase revenue and, at some point, it actually causes taxpayers to shelter assets and incomes where their tax obligation is actually lower.

Raising taxes isn't going to solve everything, but it will at least stop some of the irresponsible bleeding done by the Bush Administration.

And I'll get back to your other point when I've got more time, but I only partially agree, and I 100% disagree that the principle applies to the Bush tax cuts. That just a gross oversimplification and over application of the idea.



You can sure tell the ones in here that don't pay taxes. It's never enough as long as someone else pays them.

I pay taxes, dumbass. This is a typical republican talking point, that anyone who thinks we're under-taxed must be a non-tax paying welfare queen. I know Glenn Beck has got you conditioned real well.

Too bad warren buffett and bill gates also think the tax rates are too low and presumably should be restored to pre-Bush tax cut levels.

But when Democrats say "tax the rich", it's not because they want to bleed them dry, and they aren't going to because we're not talking about anything crazy like a 10% hike, it's because they can most afford to pay it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Raising taxes isn't going to solve everything, but it will at least stop some of the irresponsible bleeding done by the Bush Administration.

And I'll get back to your other point when I've got more time, but I only partially agree, and I 100% disagree that the principle applies to the Bush tax cuts. That just a gross oversimplification and over application of the idea.




I pay taxes, dumbass. This is a typical republican talking point, that anyone who thinks we're under-taxed must be a non-tax paying welfare queen. I know Glenn Beck has got you conditioned real well.

Too bad warren buffett and bill gates also think the tax rates are too low and presumably should be restored to pre-Bush tax cut levels.

But when Democrats say "tax the rich", it's not because they want to bleed them dry, and they aren't going to because we're not talking about anything crazy like a 10% hike, it's because they can most afford to pay it.

The Feds currently take 28.2% of GDP in taxes. How much more do you want them to take? How much is enough?

BTW I didn't say you were a welfare queen. I was thinking your posts sound more like a sophomore in high school.

[ChumpDumper]

Federal deficits are the result of expenditures being greater than revenue.

Democrats and Republicans are equally guilty.

The political electoral process encourages ever increasing spending.

Continuing to increase spending and taxes endlessly is simply not feasible.

The real question is how much tax is enough for the Federal government to do the job it is tasked with in the constitution.

I say they already take a big enough slice of the GDP.

You say they don't.When did I say that?

Link please.


It's currently 28.2%. I say that should be enough for the Feds to do the job they are constitutionally obligated to do.

How much do you want Chump?

35%? 50%? 75%?

How much is enough?If taxes are cut, spending needs to be cut too. Otherwise the deficit grows like it did after the Bush tax cuts.

Who has the plan to cut spending?

Palin?

[ChumpDumper]

Why don't they keep the tax cuts?So you want the deficit to increase another $3 trillion.

Good job. :tu

[boutons_deux]

Critics Still Wrong on What’s Driving Deficits in Coming Years


http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//12-16-09bud-rev6-28-10-f1.jpg

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036

=========

The deficit, which isn't so huge compared to GDP, given the Criminal Banksters' Great Depression.

None of Magic Negro's actions have increased the deficit anywhere near the Repug components of the deficit:

2 bogus/botched wars,

tax cuts for the rich,

tax breaks for the the corps,

unfunded Medicare Part D,

subsidy to Health Insurance companies to make them competitive with Medicate,

Legislation blocking govt from acting as single buyer with BigPharma, etc.

mismanagement/deregulation of the economy 2001-2008.

[CosmicCowboy]

When did I say that?

Link please.

If taxes are cut, spending needs to be cut too. Otherwise the deficit grows like it did after the Bush tax cuts.

Who has the plan to cut spending?

Palin?

I'm OK with raising the Social Security retirement age for everyone younger than me...:lmao

Seriously, I'm for raising the age period. I'm not retiring at 65 anyway.

[angrydude]

what nobody seems to be mentioning is all the companies who right now are either

1. hoarding money in anticipation of the tax increases (whether justifiably or not...but they are doing it) so they'll have cash to pay them. This hurts us short term.

and/or

2. accelerating as much income as they can to this year (by issuing dividends and such). This hurts us long term probably more than it helps us short term (as right now doesn't feel too peachy)

[Wild Cobra]

what nobody seems to be mentioning is all the companies who right now are either

1. hoarding money in anticipation of the tax increases (whether justifiably or not...but they are doing it) so they'll have cash to pay them. This hurts us short term.

and/or

2. accelerating as much income as they can to this year (by issuing dividends and such). This hurts us long term probably more than it helps us short term (as right now doesn't feel too peachy)

Yep. The democrats scare the hell out of many rich people.

[ChumpDumper]

Yep. The democrats scare the hell out of many rich people.Many rich people are pussies.

[DarrinS]

Yeah 1 year is not enough time to fix 8 years of fuck ups...

But it is enough time to out-spend the predecessor in that entire 8 year time period.

[Yonivore]

Yep. The democrats scare the hell out of many rich people.
The democrats are the rich people...

Democrats scare the hell out of ordinary, hard-working, small business owners and hard-working, tax-paying laborers.

[boutons_deux]

"it is enough time to out-spend the predecessor in that entire 8 year time period."

You Lie

[DarrinS]

"it is enough time to out-spend the predecessor in that entire 8 year time period."

You Lie


You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v81YUTe-7Bs/ScuOOgjJjWI/AAAAAAAABFA/s9b55Ay17ZE/s400/obama_budget.jpg

[DarrinS]

At least all that massive spending has created shitloads of new jobs. :lmao

[boutons_deux]

The vast majority of the deficit is on Repug wars, tax cuts, economic mismanagement and their relentless starving the beast.

http://www.cbpp.org/images/cms//12-16-09bud-rev6-28-10-f1.jpg

aka, YOU LIE

[Wild Cobra]

The democrats are the rich people...

Democrats scare the hell out of ordinary, hard-working, small business owners and hard-working, tax-paying laborers.
I stand corrected, there really are too many wealthy people that either don't care if they pay more, or have had their friends in congress make good deals for them. Just a few really rich people that feel like they've been robbed.

[DarrinS]

aka, YOU LIE


It's a simple question. Has the Obama admin already outspent 8 years of Bush.

Yes or no?

[boutons_deux]

No

[DMX7]

No

And of course it's textbook SOP to spend when you're trying to get out of a recession.

[Winehole23]

It's a simple question. Has the Obama admin already outspent 8 years of Bush.

Yes or no?Your mind as ever maintains its steely grip on the obvious. Kudos.:toast

[admiralsnackbar]

logic

:lol