End all, be all...........why MJ > Kobe period

[lebomb]

MJ won 3 straight championships, took a nice 1.5yr break and came back to win 3 more in a row.

Not one of these championships went to game 7.

The end, done, its over. Drop the Kobe talk of being the greatest. :rolleyes

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Well, this convinced me.

[Medvedenko]

Yup, I'm convinced.
I'll go tell my cousin you're thinking about him.

[MavDynasty]

No one gives a shit tbh

lol utsa

[Blake]

MJ won 3 straight championships, took a nice 1.5yr break and came back to win 3 more in a row.

Not one of these championships went to game 7.

The end, done, its over. Drop the Kobe talk of being the greatest. :rolleyes

who is telling you that Kobe>MJ?

For what it's worth, if Kobe beats Miami in the Finals this year, then Kobe is right there with MJ.

[4>0rings]

No one with any brain is arguing that Kobe is better than MJ, so why do we need this thread?

[Goran Dragic]

lol utsa

[Goran Dragic]

I'll go tell my cousin you're thinking about him.
Do you expect people to believe some fag faced cracker is Kobe's cousin?

[JamStone]

Lol why do some people keep bringing this up. Pretty much everyone in the universe agrees that Jordan > Kobe and that it's not really even that close.

I'll say one thing though. The 2010 Boston Celtics (old legs and all) > than any team Jordan's Bulls beat in the NBA Finals.

[lebomb]

I'll say one thing though. The 2010 Boston Celtics (old legs and all) > than any team Jordan's Bulls beat in the NBA Finals.


Debatable........................those Suns and Jazz teams were pretty damn good.

[BullsDynasty]

Lol why do some people keep bringing this up. Pretty much everyone in the universe agrees that Jordan > Kobe and that it's not really even that close.

I'll say one thing though. The 2010 Boston Celtics (old legs and all) > than any team Jordan's Bulls beat in the NBA Finals.

Probably the Trail Blazers and the Sonics but the Lakers, Suns and Jazz? Seriously?????

[hater]

I'll say one thing though. The 2010 Boston Celtics (old legs and all) > than any team Jordan's Bulls beat in the NBA Finals.

then again, 2010 Lakers would have lost to Ewing's knick teams

[TheKingOfMIA6]

Dont even mention Kobes name next to Jordan

[Goran Dragic]

The 2010 Boston Celtics (old legs and all) > than any team Jordan's Bulls beat in the NBA Finals.
Artest, Gasol, Bynum, Odom > any front court Jordan's Bulls ever had

[Giuseppe]

5-6

Kobe is rightch behind MJ, knockin' on that shaky puddin'.

Finish it.

[TheKingOfMIA6]

Dont even mention kobes name next to Jordans unless kobe wins 4 more Finals MVPs

[lebomb]

Probably the Trail Blazers and the Sonics but the Lakers, Suns and Jazz? Seriously?????



All of them were good. You are saying Stockton, Malone, Hornacek werent any good? LOL

Barkley, Johnson, Dan Marjle and Ainge werent any good as well? OK......... :rolleyes

Its easy to say that 15years later.

[TheKingOfMIA6]

5-6

Kobe is rightch behind MJ, knockin' on that shaky puddin'.

Finish it.

No its

2-6

[nkdlunch]

No its

2-6

yup

[BullsDynasty]

All of them were good. You are saying Stockton, Malone, Hornacek werent any good? LOL

Barkley, Johnson, Dan Marjle and Ainge werent any good as well? OK......... :rolleyes

Its easy to say that 15years later.

Ya way to misread my entire post.

[Booharv]

The 2010 Boston Celtics (old legs and all) > than any team Jordan's Bulls beat in the NBA Finals.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[elemento]

Tell us something we don't know son

[Booharv]

Is this "Medvedenko is Kobe's cousin" schtick supposed to be funny or something?

[Booharv]

I'm not being insulting btw, I really want to know what is the point of lying and saying you're Kobe's cousin Medvedenko?

[The Gemini Method]

No its

2-6

So, if the Heat go on to win any titles--does that same reasoning apply for LeBron, too?

Wait, firstly, another thread with this comparison...how original.

[Giuseppe]

No its

2-6

Uh, uh. None of that crapola. It's 5-6.

Finish it.

[Frank Lucas]

So, if the Heat go on to win any titles--does that same reasoning apply for LeBron, too?

Yes

[Medvedenko]

I'm not being insulting btw, I really want to know what is the point of lying and saying you're Kobe's cousin Medvedenko?

It's not meant to be funny.

[JamStone]

Debatable........................those Suns and Jazz teams were pretty damn good.

Then debate it. The 1996-98 Utah Jazz had one great scorer, one great passer, and a bunch of ok journeyman type players around them.

Even though the 2009-10 Celtics were older, they still had a lot more balance at both ends of the court and had more weapons.



Probably the Trail Blazers and the Sonics but the Lakers, Suns and Jazz? Seriously?????

Yes, better than all of those teams. Lakers were not the same anymore. No more Kareem. Had very little youth on the team outside of Vlade who played significant minutes. With the 2010 Celtics, at least they still had youth and athleticism with Rondo, Perk, Tony Allen, and Davis. The Suns were a great offensive team. They had zero size. In fact they were undersized at every single position. The fact they made it to the NBA Finals is a testament on how good Barkley still was, how much heart KJ had, and how the Western Conference was declining and transitioning past the dominance of the 80s Lakers.

I think Utah was probably Jordan's best competition in the NBA Finals of his 6 titles. And I think over the past decade, they'd still be far behind teams like the Lakers, Spurs, and even Mavericks and Suns. They'd be a middle of the pack team in the Western Conference in today's NBA. In the mid to late 90s, they were the best team in the Western Conference.



then again, 2010 Lakers would have lost to Ewing's knick teams

And Starks and Kobe would have epic shooting battles....



Artest, Gasol, Bynum, Odom > any front court Jordan's Bulls ever had

Agree. Fortunately for Jordan, his Bulls never faced a dominant front court in the NBA Finals.


Mind you, I'm obviously not arguing Kobe > Jordan. That's a ridiculous contention to make. But Michael dominated a weaker league in the 90s. I do believe that.

[nkdlunch]

Mind you, I'm obviously not arguing Kobe > Jordan. That's a ridiculous contention to make. But Michael dominated a weaker league in the 90s. I do believe that.

with a much weaker team. Once allthings balance out, MJ >>>> Kobe in any era

[Medvedenko]

Then debate it. The 1996-98 Utah Jazz had one great scorer, one great passer, and a bunch of ok journeyman type players around them.

Even though the 2009-10 Celtics were older, they still had a lot more balance at both ends of the court and had more weapons.




Yes, better than all of those teams. Lakers were not the same anymore. No more Kareem. Had very little youth on the team outside of Vlade who played significant minutes. With the 2010 Celtics, at least they still had youth and athleticism with Rondo, Perk, Tony Allen, and Davis. The Suns were a great offensive team. They had zero size. In fact they were undersized at every single position. The fact they made it to the NBA Finals is a testament on how good Barkley still was, how much heart KJ had, and how the Western Conference was declining and transitioning past the dominance of the 80s Lakers.

I think Utah was probably Jordan's best competition in the NBA Finals of his 6 titles. And I think over the past decade, they'd still be far behind teams like the Lakers, Spurs, and even Mavericks and Suns. They'd be a middle of the pack team in the Western Conference in today's NBA. In the mid to late 90s, they were the best team in the Western Conference.




And Starks and Kobe would have epic shooting battles....




Agree. Fortunately for Jordan, his Bulls never faced a dominant front court in the NBA Finals.


Mind you, I'm obviously not arguing Kobe > Jordan. That's a ridiculous contention to make. But Michael dominated a weaker league in the 90s. I do believe that.

Jammy, you just did my friend.

[lebomb]

Then debate it. The 1996-98 Utah Jazz had one great scorer, one great passer, and a bunch of ok journeyman type players around them.

Even though the 2009-10 Celtics were older, they still had a lot more balance at both ends of the court and had more weapons.




Yes, better than all of those teams. Lakers were not the same anymore. No more Kareem. Had very little youth on the team outside of Vlade who played significant minutes. With the 2010 Celtics, at least they still had youth and athleticism with Rondo, Perk, Tony Allen, and Davis. The Suns were a great offensive team. They had zero size. In fact they were undersized at every single position. The fact they made it to the NBA Finals is a testament on how good Barkley still was, how much heart KJ had, and how the Western Conference was declining and transitioning past the dominance of the 80s Lakers.

I think Utah was probably Jordan's best competition in the NBA Finals of his 6 titles. And I think over the past decade, they'd still be far behind teams like the Lakers, Spurs, and even Mavericks and Suns. They'd be a middle of the pack team in the Western Conference in today's NBA. In the mid to late 90s, they were the best team in the Western Conference.




And Starks and Kobe would have epic shooting battles....




Agree. Fortunately for Jordan, his Bulls never faced a dominant front court in the NBA Finals.


Mind you, I'm obviously not arguing Kobe > Jordan. That's a ridiculous contention to make. But Michael dominated a weaker league in the 90s. I do believe that.

The thing about the teams back then, they were much more of a TEAM, they played very well together. Didnt have to squeak 3 or 4 superstars on a team and try and force them to gell. That Jazz team was very, very good. So was the Suns team. Dont care what ya think.

[JamStone]

Never once said that those Jazz or Suns teams were not "very, very good."

I only said that the 2010 Celtics were better. Don't misconstrue what I said.

And it's fine if you disagree. Everyone has his own opinion.

[lebomb]

Never once said that those Jazz or Suns teams were not "very, very good."

I only said that the 2010 Celtics were better. Don't misconstrue what I said.

And it's fine if you disagree. Everyone has his own opinion.

I dont think this years Celtics were as good. Pierce didnt play very well in the playoffs, KG showed up maybe one game. Ray Allens shot lights out one game and then disappeared. Only Rajon Rondo really came to play.......well Nate did as well. So how in the hell were they better than Malone, Stockton, Hornacek, Russell, Shandon Anderson, Antoinee Carr and Howard Eisley???

That team had a great pt. Awesome PF, Great, great shooters.

[TheKingOfMIA6]

So, if the Heat go on to win any titles--does that same reasoning apply for LeBron, too?

Wait, firstly, another thread with this comparison...how original.

LeBrons rings will only count when he will win Finals MVP trophy with them

[JamStone]

Rajon Rondo / Nate Robinson
Ray Allen / Tony Allen
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett / Glen Davis
Kendrick Perkins / Rasheed Wallace

versus

John Stockton / Howard Eisley
Jeff Hornacek
Bryon Russell / Shandon Anderson
Karl Malone / Antoine Carr
Greg Ostertag / Greg Foster


Bad match-up for the Jazz's two best players, with Stockton having to match Rondo's athleticism and Karl Malone having to take on KG's size and length. That doesn't even begin to speak on how lopsided the SG/SF positions are in favor of the Celtics. And the depth the Celtics have is in the front court, which has predominantly been a major factor in playoff match-ups, who can win the paint war, the battle on the glass. The Celtics don't only have depth, but they have quality depth. By 1997/1998, Antoine Carr was a 35 year old, 15 minute per game guy. And after Malone, their front court consisted of Greg Ostertag, Greg Foster, and Adam Keefe. Good size, very little athleticism, very little skill other than Foster's ability to shoot three pointers. So, the Jazz's two best players had tough match-ups, the Celtics outclass them at the three other positions, and had the heavy advantage in the paint.

Where does Utah even have an advantage? Only arguably scoring from the PF position. I'll even give them the coaching edge. But that's about it.

I'd take the 2010 Celtics over the 1997/1998 Jazz in 5 games, 6 games max.

[Muser]

That Karl Malone would eat 2010 KG's lunch.

[JamStone]

Good thing the Celtics would switch Perkins onto Malone.

[Quit Hatin']

if the dwayne wade led miami heat ever win a title, dwayne would have 2 titles and lebron would still have zero. in 2008 paul pierce won the finals mvp so that mean kg is still ringless. in 2007 parker one finals mvp so tim duncan only has 2 1/2 rings(notice how i gave him only half ring because 1999 half a season= half a ring). o and since michael played in a weak era every ring only counts as a half compare to our generation. thats the rules.

Quit Hatin'

[Goran Dragic]

Tbh those Jazz teams are overrated as shit. John Stockton cared more about racking up assists than winning games, and we all know what kind of 4th quarter performances to expect from Karl Malone. Watching some of the stuff those teams did was hilarious, like the open layups Stockton passed up to fling it back out to Hornacek so he could get an assist.

[Muser]

You think Kendrick Perkins will shut down the all time leading scorer in his prime?

[Dr House]

It's not meant to be funny.

Can you tell your cousin to call me? :cry:cry

I put out for him last night, and he hasn't texted me back yet.

[JamStone]

You think Kendrick Perkins will shut down the all time leading scorer in his prime?

No, I don't think Kendrick Perkins would shut down Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in his prime.

[Goran Dragic]

Rather than focus on the teams MJ played in the finals, IMO it's worth mentioning that he didn't get a free trip to the finals every year like Kobe has gotten since 2008. Look at the garbage that limped into the conference finals to get beat by LA recently.

[Quit Hatin']

like it or not karl malone in his prime is like a carlos boozer in todays generation.


Quit Hatin'

[Goran Dragic]

like it or not karl malone in his prime is like a carlos boozer in todays generation.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao Lakerfan demonstrating his vast basketball knowledge

[BUMP]

like it or not karl malone in his prime is like a carlos boozer in todays generation.


Quit Hatin'

I thought we were trying to raise the bar in here?

[Quit Hatin']

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao Lakerfan demonstrating his vast basketball knowledge


he aint no tim duncan and hes not KG. And he wasnt even that skilled. What did he do in 2004?

[Goran Dragic]

he aint no tim duncan and hes not KG. And he wasnt even that skilled. What did he do in 2004?

:lmao he was 40 years old in 2004, what the fuck do you expect him to do?

[Muser]

No, I don't think Kendrick Perkins would shut down Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in his prime.

Oh shit, you got me :depressed

[Quit Hatin']

:lmao he was 40 years old in 2004, what the fuck do you expect him to do?

If he was truly that skilled as u said he was, he would be able to use his postgame and footwork against the younger generation ala michael jordan.


Quit Hatin'

[Muser]

If he was truly that skilled as u said he was, he would be able to use his postgame and footwork against the younger generation ala michael jordan.


Quit Hatin'

You don't get 2nd***** on the all time scorers list by having shitty post moves/footwork.

[Goran Dragic]

If he was truly that skilled as u said he was, he would be able to use his postgame and footwork against the younger generation ala michael jordan.


Quit Hatin'


Show me where I said he was skilled? I simply implied it was retarded to say he'd be Carlos Boozer in today's NBA.

[Quit Hatin']

i never said he had a shitty postgame or badfootwork, i just said if he was that skilled he would continue to be successful with his skills no matter his age.

Quit Hatin'

[BUMP]

This guy sounds like one of my trolls

[Quit Hatin']

Show me where I said he was skilled? I simply implied it was retarded to say he'd be Carlos Boozer in today's NBA.

so who would u compare him to in today's generation?

[Goran Dragic]

so who would u compare him to in today's generation?


There's no one to compare him to.

[Quit Hatin']

first you say he is not skilled, then u say hes a once in a life time player.

[Goran Dragic]

first you say he is not skilled, then u say hes a once in a life time player.

I never said either, you really struggle with reading comprehension.

[Quit Hatin']

by u saying that theres no one to compare him to you are implying he is a once in a life time player and you said yourself "Show me where I said he was skilled"

[TheKingOfMIA6]

This guy sounds like one of my trolls

its Culburn

[Goran Dragic]

by u saying that theres no one to compare him to you are implying he is a once in a life time player
Not really. That just means that there currently isn't someone in the NBA with a similar skillset to Malone.


and you said yourself "Show me where I said he was skilled"
I never said he was skilled, I never said he wasn't skilled. Not saying one thing doesn't mean I'm saying the other.

[namlook]

Artest, Gasol, Bynum, Odom > any front court Jordan's Bulls ever had

How is Bynum even in the discussion? He's never done anything and has been injured every year.

[Goran Dragic]

How is Bynum even in the discussion? He's never done anything and has been injured the last two playoff runs.
Sup Sandy

[namlook]

LOL @ having no answer for this:

How is Bynum even in the discussion? He's never done anything and has been injured every year.

[midnightpulp]

LOL @ Goran having no answer for this:

How is Bynum even in the discussion? He's never done anything and has been injured every year.

After everyone made fun of your gay ignore list, I like the way that you suddenly changed your sig in an attempt to convince everyone that it was a calculated troll move and not just you broadcasting your own butthurt.

Well played, Namlook.

Well played.

[Giuseppe]

its Culburn

Culburn doesn't do trolls.

It's his religion.

[Chucho]

No its

2-6
THIS.

Sorry, but the only people who think Kobe is on Jordan's level are Kobe homers. It's not even close, Jordan killed better teams in the Eastern Finals than Kobe did in the two rings he won. And when was MJ ever second fiddle to a center?

For this to even be debatable Kobe needs 4 more Finals MVPs before people even begin the discussions, let alone maybe doing it with a weaker roster. Seriously, those Bulls rosters outside of Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper and Horace Grant were filled with garbage compared to the STACKED roster the Lakers have boasted the past two seasons. Not to mention Jordan was the main guy on the Greatest Team Ever.

[Giuseppe]

Nonetheless it's still 5-6. Bryant ain't ahead of MJ yet, but, he's right behind him. One more ring and we're gonna get down to brass tacks.

And I ain't fuckin' around.

Savvy?

[midnightpulp]

Nonetheless it's still 5-6. Bryant ain't ahead of MJ yet, but, he's right behind him. One more ring and we're gonna get down to brass tacks.

And I ain't fuckin' around.

Savvy?

So Duncan>Wilt, correct?

[Giuseppe]

So Duncan>Wilt, correct?

You heard what I said.

[4>0rings]

Culburn doesn't do trolls.

It's his religion.This is your troll account. At least it started that way with your stupid accent BS until you got called out. :lol

[Giuseppe]

This is your troll account. At least it started that way with your stupid accent BS until you got called out. :lol

You don't know shit from apple butter. I came right in with the O & 41 to Duncan/Italian style.

Let us proceed...

[4>0rings]

You don't know shit from apple butter. I came right in with the O & 41 to Duncan/Italian style.

Let us proceed...BS, you played eggplant until you got called out. Ask for another ban, I dare ya...

[Giuseppe]

BS, you played eggplant until you got called out. Ask for another ban, I dare ya...

Uh, uh. I came right in with the O & 41 shit and with the Suns having the Victory Parade after losing the '93 Finals.

[Koolaid_Man]

Kobe still doing work according to Spike...MJ has a pot Belly...

[Giuseppe]

...and don't forget those two years in D.C..

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

When was the last thread claiming Kobe > Jordan even made?

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't know about the last thread, but I know Kobe's cousin is still going around saying Kobe > Jordan whenever he can..

[Medvedenko]

I don't know about the last thread, but I know Kobe's cousin is still going around saying Kobe > Jordan whenever he can..

I'm just reppin' my family bro.

[Killakobe81]

he is not as good as Mj can we end this discusion?

[Mike-in-brazil]

another spursfan expressing his thoughts about kobe/mj debate ..this thread is redundant

do you cry when listen to R-kelly's i believe i can fly?...hold your jordan dvd's close at heart..? it's ok man...did u have to finish your homework b4 u could watch it back in the day ?

why is this so promising? .....who gives a dayum...
Fans want championships to their franchises that's all that matters
ask mavs and cavs they can testify!!

[Goran Dragic]

lol Lakers fan in Brazil

[Quit Hatin']

lol goran dragic fan

Quit Hatin'

[Mike-in-brazil]

huh?...dog I been living in brasil for 7 months I'm from Los Angeles...whats so funny??
u shoulda seen when we beat the suns...fine ass brasilian chicks rockin laker gear awesomeness!!!

[Goran Dragic]

That doesn't really surprise me, Latin Americans love the Lakers.

[Mike-in-brazil]

u really don't know your team..one of the only few teams that has a brazilian playing for them...and u think more lakers fans here in brasil?......u see more suns....nuggets...cavs jerseys/fans here due to the brasilian players they have....
think how many spurs jerseys sold in argentina and france....lol think all i asked

[Goran Dragic]

u really don't know your team..one of the only few teams that has a brazilian playing for them...and u think more lakers fans here in brasil?......u see more suns....nuggets...cavs jerseys/fans here due to the brasilian players they have....
think how many spurs jerseys sold in argentina and france....lol think all i asked
Latin Americans are bandwagon fans, they cheer for the team that's doing the best. Every beaner in Phoenix busted out their Kobe jersey after LA won. I really don't give a shit how Tardbosa made it so Brazilians cheered for the Suns, thanks for letting me know. Tell your country to stop producing mentally soft faggots who disappear in the playoffs.

[Mike-in-brazil]

Tell your country to stop producing mentally soft faggots who disappear in the playoffs.ok ill start with Lebron james....thanks for the advice...

told u i was from L.A....ill repeat think is all i asked....lol

[jag]

I'm just reppin' my family bro.

You live in Canada, and judging by your picture you drink cosmos when not at Starbucks writing poetry. Just because someone who met Kobe once banged your sister, that doesn't make kobe your cousin.

[picc84]

Is there even anyone on this site that thinks Kobe = MJ?

You might as well start a "why Duncan > Malone" thread.

[Muser]

Is there even anyone on this site that thinks Kobe = MJ?

You might as well start a "why Duncan > Malone" thread.

1) Probably, but they're retarded for thinking that

2) Easy, Duncan didn't turn into a huge pussy in the playoffs.

[Goran Dragic]

Is there even anyone on this site that thinks Kobe = MJ?

Medvedenko

[redzero]

he is not as good as Mj can we end this discusion?

No.

Never.

[SomeCallMeTim]

I'm just amazed that there are people who deny that Karl Malone was anything but a fantastic basketball player. Even at 40 years old, he was playing great for the Lakers. I've posted before the splits of how awesome the Lakers were with him in the lineup (winning about 80% of their games) vs. when he was injured. No way to know if LA would've had enough to overcome the Pistons in the Finals the way Detroit was playing, but in hindsight it's clear to see that when Malone re-injured his knee in Game 6 of the WCFs against Minny, the Lakers were pretty much done from that point on.

The guy was the clear-cut best PF of all time until Duncan came along and wrested that title from him. Dude was a machine.

[picc84]

My respect for Malone grew after he played for LA too. His basketball IQ was off the charts, probably one of the smartest players i've ever seen in my life. That was his biggest contribution to the team.

[JamStone]

Karl Malone was a great, great player. I think people do fall into the trap of thinking the most recent is always the best. That's why some crazy people want to compare Kobe to Jordan or LeBron to Magic/Michael or Dirk to Bird and the like. Perhaps people want to believe they are witnessing the greatest players right now.

However, with Karl Malone, I do think there is some merit to questioning his dominance from an "era" perspective. Karl Malone was generously listed at 6'9 and was around 260. In the 80s and the early 90s, that was plenty big for a power forward. But the power forward position has evolved over the last 20 years. Many if not most power forwards are now closer to 7 feet tall and are not only more slender but much more athletic. The elite power forwards are freak athletes. If you put Karl Malone in today's NBA, he'd still be a great player but he wouldn't be an elite level athlete for his position and he'd on the average to below average size height-wise.

Plus, you see how people over the years have criticized Amare for not being a great back-to-the-basket post player. Karl Malone feasted on offense in a similar manner. He could post up, but his bread and butter was the pick-and-roll with Stockton and later in his career the midrange free throw jump shot. Sounds an awful lot like Amare's game and he's criticized for not having a very versatile low post game. And Karl Malone had the strength but not the freakish athleticism Amare has. I'd say Karl would be better than Carlos Boozer, but I don't think it's a stretch to compare the two. Both strong wide bodied power forwards who are/were undersized by their height, who struggle against length, but who have earned their paychecks by the pick-and-roll and midrange jump shot.

Part of the greatness of Karl Malone was his durability and longevity. He kept his body in great shape. And it afforded him one of the truly longer NBA careers, but also allowed himself to play at a very high level for longer. If he played in the 2000s against the likes of Duncan, KG, and even a notch below talent at PF with the likes of Dirk and Webber and Gasol and now Bosh, where would he have been viewed among power forwards?

[Venti Quattro]

I don't think that's really the main thing that's been pointed about Amare. It's his poor defense and rebounding for his size that have been always points against him. Malone is a great defender and rebounder for his size.

[JamStone]

Fair enough, but Karl Malone wasn't exactly a defensive juggernaut. A good defender in his era of basketball. I wouldn't go so far as saying he was a great defender as you suggest. I will say this about Karl Malone's defense, he wasn't afraid to foul hard. I think that in itself helped him defensively, at least from a psychological perspective. Players would be very wary of his elbows when attacking Karl Malone.

But, defense and rebounding isn't why Karl Malone was considered the greatest power forward before Duncan got deeper into his career. It was his scoring. I'm just suggesting how his offensive ability was aided in a similar way that Amare's has been yet also criticized. It's true Amare gets criticized much more for his defense and lack of consistent rebounding, but he also gets bashed for what is perceived as not having a back-to-the-basket low post game.

I do think Karl Malone's legend is greatly tied into his durability and longevity.

Again, allow for Karl Malone's career to overlap more alongside the late 1990s to currently, while other great power forwards like Duncan, KG, Dirk, Gasol, C-Webb, and Bosh had the prime of their careers, and I don't think he'd be mentioned as one of the greatest players of all time, but for the longevity of his career and his ability to put up very good stats deep into his career. But then again, I don't think he'd have two NBA Finals appearances or either league MVP.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Karl Malone was a great, great player. I think people do fall into the trap of thinking the most recent is always the best. That's why some crazy people want to compare Kobe to Jordan or LeBron to Magic/Michael or Dirk to Bird and the like. Perhaps people want to believe they are witnessing the greatest players right now.

However, with Karl Malone, I do think there is some merit to questioning his dominance from an "era" perspective. Karl Malone was generously listed at 6'9 and was around 260. In the 80s and the early 90s, that was plenty big for a power forward. But the power forward position has evolved over the last 20 years. Many if not most power forwards are now closer to 7 feet tall and are not only more slender but much more athletic. The elite power forwards are freak athletes. If you put Karl Malone in today's NBA, he'd still be a great player but he wouldn't be an elite level athlete for his position and he'd on the average to below average size height-wise.

Plus, you see how people over the years have criticized Amare for not being a great back-to-the-basket post player. Karl Malone feasted on offense in a similar manner. He could post up, but his bread and butter was the pick-and-roll with Stockton and later in his career the midrange free throw jump shot. Sounds an awful lot like Amare's game and he's criticized for not having a very versatile low post game. And Karl Malone had the strength but not the freakish athleticism Amare has. I'd say Karl would be better than Carlos Boozer, but I don't think it's a stretch to compare the two. Both strong wide bodied power forwards who are/were undersized by their height, who struggle against length, but who have earned their paychecks by the pick-and-roll and midrange jump shot.

Part of the greatness of Karl Malone was his durability and longevity. He kept his body in great shape. And it afforded him one of the truly longer NBA careers, but also allowed himself to play at a very high level for longer. If he played in the 2000s against the likes of Duncan, KG, and even a notch below talent at PF with the likes of Dirk and Webber and Gasol and now Bosh, where would he have been viewed among power forwards?

JameStone with another quality take. However, I think the size of Duncan and Dirk may have been a bit much to handle for the Mailman. And I wouldn't exactly call him clutch either. I do think he would be difficult to stop on the offensive end though. Interesting take nonetheless.

[jacobdrj]

The fact that people need to compare their games is amusing, and kind of sad.
Ironic that Kobe was a 'Magic Guy' as a fan, but ended up as more of a 'Jordan Guy' as a player, where as LeBron was a 'Jordan Guy' as a fan, but is playing a lot more like a 'Magic Guy'...
It's an age thing...

[JamStone]

I think LeBron plays more like Jordan, not like Magic, but without the restrictions of the triangle offense allowing him to go into iso 40-50 times a game and pile up assists. Playing more like Magic would relegate LeBron to closer to a 20 ppg scorer and have him push the ball up every single opportunity he had looking for teammates to run the transition lanes and spot up on the fastbreak. LeBron is still more of a half court one-on-one iso player, even though he will at times get in the open court. But when he's in the open court, he's much more likely to try to finish with a dunk than to pass it.

However, I will say this. He has a serious opportunity to be much more like Magic now that he's on the Miami Heat.

[jacobdrj]

I always felt that LeBron was a half court guy because of his personnel and coaches... A big part of the reason I felt LeBron needed to get away from Cleveland was to get away from big lumbering centers like Big-Z and Shaq... Z is still there, but hopefully in a bench role. I think if they get an athletic big, even without any offensive game, you will see LeBron's fast break game explode...

[SomeCallMeTim]

Fair enough, but Karl Malone wasn't exactly a defensive juggernaut. A good defender in his era of basketball. I wouldn't go so far as saying he was a great defender as you suggest. I will say this about Karl Malone's defense, he wasn't afraid to foul hard. I think that in itself helped him defensively, at least from a psychological perspective. Players would be very wary of his elbows when attacking Karl Malone.

But, defense and rebounding isn't why Karl Malone was considered the greatest power forward before Duncan got deeper into his career. It was his scoring. I'm just suggesting how his offensive ability was aided in a similar way that Amare's has been yet also criticized. It's true Amare gets criticized much more for his defense and lack of consistent rebounding, but he also gets bashed for what is perceived as not having a back-to-the-basket low post game.

I do think Karl Malone's legend is greatly tied into his durability and longevity.

Again, allow for Karl Malone's career to overlap more alongside the late 1990s to currently, while other great power forwards like Duncan, KG, Dirk, Gasol, C-Webb, and Bosh had the prime of their careers, and I don't think he'd be mentioned as one of the greatest players of all time, but for the longevity of his career and his ability to put up very good stats deep into his career. But then again, I don't think he'd have two NBA Finals appearances or either league MVP.

It's possible, but I just don't see his era or matchups making that much of a difference. You could make the same argument with Magic; put him in today's league with so many great PGs and he wouldn't be mentioned as one of the all-time greats? I don't see it.

What made Malone so great was putting up a ton of points efficiently and dominating the boards. I think you underrate his defense, too. Not to mention passing... guy just had unreal bball IQ, which really helped lengthen his career.

The numbers he put up in his Age 40 season are nothing short of amazing.

[JamStone]

The point guard position hasn't evolved the way the power forward position has, so introducing Magic Johnson as an example to refute my position is tangental and irrelevant. If anything, the NBA has evolved where a dominant point guard has less value. Magic would still have the same advantage of height in today's NBA, whereas Karl Malone would lose some of the advantages he had against his era of power forwards.

Karl Malone was very good on the boards. It's already been mentioned in this thread that so does Carlos Boozer. As for Karl Malone's defense, we'll just have to differ. I'm not saying he was bad. I'm not even saying he was average. But he wasn't a dominant defender. Let's put it this way, if Karl Malone had to go out night in and night out in the Western Conference against Duncan, KG, Amare, and Pau Gasol all in their prime versus Shawn Kemp, Cliff Robinson, Terry Cummings, and Chuck Person, it's simply my opinion Karl Malone wouldn't be viewed as a great defender at all.

Let me put into perspective how I think Karl Malone's offense may have been inflated due to the system he played in and the point guard he played with.

Karl Malone's career FG% is 51.6%
Karl Malone's career playoff FG% is 46.3%

In his two MVP seasons (1996-97, 1998-99), his FG% were 55.0% and 49.3%
In the playoffs of those same two seasons, his FG% were 43.5% and 41.7%

So when he faced better teams and faced teams and players that actually played better and more consistent defense, his FG% dropped sharply. People on these boards often love to talk about how great players pick up their level of play in the playoffs. As far as his offense went, while he still scored his points, the playoffs give some insight about his offense.

Let me be clear. Karl Malone was a great player. And he deserves mention among the all time greats. I just think it would be a different story if the prime of his career was played in the late 1990s through the 2000s. And I do think Utah's pick-and-roll offense and playing with Stockton definitely helped his offensive numbers.