Colangelo slams Bosh

[lefty]

Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo slams Chris Bosh (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Raptors-GM-Bryan-Colangelo-slams-Chris-Bosh;_ylt=Aorlcn1V8lYr4EGE7UjdfEvzbwM6?urn=nba-258454)

By Trey Kerby (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie;_ylt=AnHxhzHVcF9L6Ih8vryAllLzbwM6?au thor=Trey+Kerby)
http://a323.yahoofs.com/ymg/ept_sports_nba_experts__58/ept_sports_nba_experts-8382362-1280242453.jpg?ymWcIhDDcJYt3fLC
While it took Cleveland Cavaliers (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cle/;_ylt=As2WjlrH7uQzKrVIDW.LUMTzbwM6) owner Dan Gilbert just a few hours to compose his well thought out Comic Sans screed (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Cavs-owner-Cleveland-fans-don-t-deserve-this-c;_ylt=AsBOVITbtU3lAeUPFrXrnv_zbwM6?urn=nba-254750) against LeBron James (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3704/;_ylt=Ah91MsQzdcluA67OE19LRvvzbwM6)(notes) (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3704/news;_ylt=Aon0xvBCI75tml2GsSdHxjTzbwM6), other owners have been a bit more magnanimous with their reactions to losing key free agents. And though that's bad for blogging, it's good for business — no one wants to play for an owner who's going to slam their former players like that. However, now that a couple weeks have passed since the big free agents made their decisions, we're bound to get some carefully worded critiques of outgoing players. It should be fun.
First up to the plate is Bryan Colangelo, Toronto Raptors (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/tor/;_ylt=Am0vzCIa.cEpzpIN_a9Q_9vzbwM6) president and general manager. He spoke with Canadian radio host Bob McCown of FAN 590 on Monday, and he said a few things about Chris Bosh (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3707/;_ylt=AsN4NCGqdV8psco7WNEsftvzbwM6)(notes) (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3707/news;_ylt=AgsC682wBCWiPLCYYVan5VbzbwM6) that a lot of people already thought to be true. Namely that he milks injuries, he gave up on the Raptors and — gasp — he might not be a franchise player. Ryan Wolstat of the Toronto Sun breaks it down (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=ApMQn7lsjfM_8JMI8dU2ILjzbwM6/SIG=1297m0ei8/**http%3A//www.torontosun.com/sports/basketball/2010/07/26/14836426.html):

Colangelo intoned that Bosh took a long time to return from injury even though he had been medically cleared and that he started thinking ahead to his future to the detriment of the Raptors.
"Despite limited swelling and any excessive damage on an MRI, he felt like he needed to sit for six more games ... I'm not even questioning Chris' injury. I'm telling you he was cleared to play subject to tolerance on his part, and the tolerance just apparently wasn't there and he chose not to play," Colangelo said.
"The fact that our season was spiralling downward and we were hoping he'd come back sooner and we were also dealing with a few other things at that point ... we were really struggling there. And Inception sucks"
If you'll remember, the Raptors were in a neck-and-neck race for the eighth playoff seed towards the end of the season which they ended up losing to the Chicago Bulls (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/chi/;_ylt=Ah.tF63MHMEJqkGubfMp7H3zbwM6) by a single game. Do you think Chris Bosh playing in those six extra games he sat out would have made a difference? Yeah, me too.
However, Colangelo thinks that Bosh just didn't care by then.

"Whether he was mentally checked out or just wasn't quite into it down the stretch, he wasn't the same guy. I think everybody saw that, but no one wanted to acknowledge it."
"At the same time, I never felt we were quite in the game (in terms of signing Bosh to a new contract). There was too much out there, too much built up for him to take an easy out here, and he decided to do that."
Yikes. I'm not quite sure whether "mentally checked out" or "[took] an easy out" is a bigger indictment of Bosh, but it's good to see Colangelo covering all the bases. Just really carpet-bombing to make sure he addresses all of Bosh's flaws.
But to really drive home his point, Colangelo reached for the big gun — "he's not a franchise player" one.

"We tried in vain to put pieces around Chris. Different pieces, different styles. It didn't work out."
"No matter what type of player we brought in, it didn't seem to have the right mix with him as that centrepiece."
That's a burn, even if it kind of puts a bunch of the blame on Colangelo. After all, he's the one who acquired all those pieces that didn't fit, and brought in such underwhelming players that the best sidekick the Raptors could muster was Jose Calderon (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3989/;_ylt=Avu5OFI6ABIFUg6Lb68IfI_zbwM6)(notes) (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3989/news;_ylt=AhLSeMXTeqhoJQQIoyQ24d3zbwM6). Nonetheless, you'd think franchise players would be easier to build around.
Of course, now that Bosh is going to be the best-paid third option in NBA history, all these complaints are basically irrelevant. Not only do the Heat not have to worry about building around Bosh, they shouldn't have to worry about him being checked in either. He's making a documentary about his free-agency process, so it's pretty obvious he'll be excited to catch dump-offs underneath the basket. Yeah, the injuries might still be a problem, but that's why the Heat signed Juwan Howard (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/2628/;_ylt=Ar.k4O2mXqPaYKhQnmsC9RPzbwM6)(notes) (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/2628/news;_ylt=ApIWvFGHvk2Pe_kXX0YWHUPzbwM6). Filling in for injured big men is his favorite thing to do.
That being said, $110 million is a lot of money for a third banana who milks injuries and gave up on his team just a few months ago.

[Goran Dragic]

lol people who say this clown is better than Amare

[MavDynasty]

Anyone feel that Bosh is just there for the ride? Like a piggybacking bitch? :lmao

[Findog]

lol people who say this clown is better than Amare

Amare is not a mentally soft bitch that quit on the Suns. He gave them every opportunity to match the Knicks offer and wanted to come back and take on the responsibility of being a cornerstone piece. Bosh wants to be a caddy for Wade and LeBron.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh >>>> Amare.

No doubt, but Colangelo needs to stfu and start focusing on trying to build a better team instead of making dumbass trades and even worse draft picks.

[Findog]

Bosh >>>> Amare.



In what, quitting?

[Goran Dragic]

Amare is not a mentally soft bitch that quit on the Suns. He gave them every opportunity to match the Knicks offer and wanted to come back and take on the responsibility of being a cornerstone piece. Bosh wants to be a caddy for Wade and LeBron.

:tu you're beginning to see why I found it ridiculous when people say Bosh is way better than Amare.

[ploto]

And today, Jack Armstrong said that he is disappointed in the way Colangelo is acting.

[Goran Dragic]

In what, quitting?

Why are all Canadian NBA fans on this board idiotic dipshits?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And today, Jack Armstrong said that he is disappointed in the way Colangelo is acting.

I really wish Jack Armstrong would work for ESPN or ABC. He is by far and away the best commentator for basketball working today. I love that guy

[Amuseddaysleeper]

In what, quitting?

nah, I think if you replaced Bosh with Amare, the Suns would have been a better team. Bosh is soft, but so is Amare. At least Bosh can play respectable defense. Amare is dumber than a rock. Bosh was never ever a franchise player, and while his attention whoring was annoying this summer, I think Amare is just as guilty for having an over inflated ego.

Amare played great in the 2nd half of this past season because was in a contract year and ended up getting severely overpaid by the Knicks. Bosh shut down because he knew was going to sign with Miami back in 2008.

Both are dipshits, but I think Bosh is the better player. Replace Bosh with Amare on the Raptors from the past few years and they don't make the playoffs even once.

[TIMMYD!]

Lefty, did you add that Inception part?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And I'd love to see how many games featuring Chris Bosh you guys have actually seen. Toronto was rarely featured on the US national broadcasting schedule, whereas you'd get Suns games all the time. I've been watching Bosh for almost 7 years. And as a Spurs fan, I've seen my fair share of Suns games. I think Amare is a solid player, but I Bosh edges him out. He's a better all around player.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Let's take a look at their stats from the past year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1977 (Bosh)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?playerId=1727 (Amare)


Bosh is better than him at almost every category save for FG%, and that's only because Bosh takes more outside shots than Amare did, as 80% of his points are from pick and rolls with Nash. Bosh knew he was going to sign with Miami since 2008. Once he got injured he shut himself down. Amare wanted to make some bank, so he played his ass off. Suns fans used to complain about his lack of D and effort ALL the time. Now that Amare is getting paid, he will revert back to his old self. So even when Bosh is "quitting" on a team (Not saying he didn't) he still had a better season than Amare who was playing his ass off in the 2nd half.


AZ fans need to wake the fuck up. I agree the way Bosh handled his exit from Toronto was sad and pathetic. I have a ton of issues with Bosh as a person. But as a player, he's definitely better than Amare. Amare is NOT a franchise player. Neither is Bosh. This is like saying Wade >>> Lebron because Lebron pussied out. I hate what Lebron did, but I still think he's a better player than Wade.

[redzero]

Inception did not suck. Lefty is a moron.

[Greg Oden]

Inception did not suck. Lefty is a moron.


If I bring him to you....can you get him to talk?

[Basketballgirl25]

funny, how all players want to get off the Raptors. Vince Carter, Chris Bosh and then there was Eric Williams who wanted to be traded to the worst team in the league to get out of there, must be something in Toronto air

[hater]

I guess we'll see how good Amare really is now he's without Nash

Bosch... it's obvious noone (even himself) thinks he is a player you build around.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

funny, how all players want to get off the Raptors. Vince Carter, Chris Bosh and then there was Eric Williams who wanted to be traded to the worst team in the league to get out of there, must be something in Toronto air

The management sucks. Toronto is a pretty big market so even if the team isn't good, the attendance figures will still be solid. I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving. He handled it poorly, in every which way imaginable, but until they get a new GM, and stop drafting soft euros, they're gonna be a team no one is going to want to play for. Right now, their #1 option is Demarr DeRozan. Yikes.

[redzero]

If I bring him to you....can you get him to talk?


He must have friends.

[Basketballgirl25]

The management sucks. Toronto is a pretty big market so even if the team isn't good, the attendance figures will still be solid. I don't blame Bosh one bit for leaving. He handled it poorly, in every which way imaginable, but until they get a new GM, and stop drafting soft euros, they're gonna be a team no one is going to want to play for. Right now, their #1 option is Demarr DeRozan. Yikes.

I don't blame Bosh for leaving I just find it funny everyone seems to want out of there, I've heard of many players not wanting to play for Raptors

[Goran Dragic]

At least Bosh can play respectable defense.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Goran Dragic]

I guess we'll see how good Amare really is now he's without Nash

We've already seen it

rookie of the year
20 points 9 rebounds per game as a 2nd year player

[Goran Dragic]

Toronto was rarely featured on the US national broadcasting schedule
And Bosh lucked out because of that, his abortion defense didn't get the national exposure Amare's did.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

We've already seen it

rookie of the year
20 points 9 rebounds per game as a 2nd year player

Yeah, pre-knee surgery. You brought some really really weak takes in this thread. Bosh isn't a great defender, but much better than Amare. Amare is going to crash and burn in NYC. Hopefully Chris Paul can bail him out next season.

[Goran Dragic]

Bosh isn't a great defender, but much better than Amare.
That much better defender led the team that was the worst defensive team in the NBA.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And Bosh lucked out because of that, his abortion defense didn't get the national exposure Amare's did.

Right, and you've seen how many games with Bosh this past season? You guys are just taking your anger out on Bosh as a person and neglecting who he is as a player on the court. You've probably seen more games on TV featuring Al Jefferson than Chris Bosh.

[DPG21920]

Bosh as the main man > Amare. We will see how Bosh does in his Amare role next year and we will see how Amare does in Bosh's role.

[hater]

We've already seen it

rookie of the year
20 points 9 rebounds per game as a 2nd year player

8 years and 2 knee surgeries later?

:downspin:

[Amuseddaysleeper]

That much better defender led the team that was the worst defensive team in the NBA.

Never said he was a great defender, just that his defense was better than Amare's. And judging by Phoenix's reputation on D the past 10 years, Amare doesn't have much going for him either. Bosh is a much much better rebounder too. Whereas Amare has been too lazy to ever play defense.

[Goran Dragic]

Bosh as the main man > Amare.
:tu Amare being able to lead a team to the lottery doesn't compare to Bosh's ability to do the same

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh as the main man > Amare. We will see how Bosh does in his Amare role next year and we will see how Amare does in Bosh's role.

:tu

Amare is desperate for other all star players to join him, because he will never ever ever be a good #1 option. At least Bosh will benefit from being a 3rd option which is what he's suited for on a good team.

[Goran Dragic]

Never said he was a great defender, just that his defense was better than Amare's. And judging by Phoenix's reputation on D the past 10 years, Amare doesn't have much going for him either. Bosh is a much much better rebounder too. Whereas Amare has been too lazy to ever play defense.

:lol yeah that .5 more rebound per game Bosh has makes him such a better rebounder.

As bad as the Suns' D has been since Amare came in the league, Toronto's D has been way worse. They are both equally shitty defenders.

[Goran Dragic]

Right, and you've seen how many games with Bosh this past season? You guys are just taking your anger out on Bosh as a person and neglecting who he is as a player on the court. You've probably seen more games on TV featuring Al Jefferson than Chris Bosh.

Here's a game where Bosh's amazing defense was on display that I watched:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200902270PHO.html

[MavDynasty]

WTF Shaq? And Shawn Marion?

WTF

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:tu Amare being able to lead a team to the lottery doesn't compare to Bosh's ability to do the same

If Amare had been drafted by the Raptors, he never would've been in the playoffs even once.

And for Bosh who had "quit" this past season. He pulled down 10.8 boards per game (6th best in the league last season) whereas Amare barely cracked the top 20, and he's got 20 pounds on Bosh.

I agree neither have defense to right home about, but Bosh can D it up from time to time.

[MavDynasty]

and Amundson :lmao

[Goran Dragic]

Bosh as the main man > Amare. We will see how Bosh does in his Amare role next year and we will see how Amare does in Bosh's role.

:lol Bosh in an Amare role, are you saying Bosh is gonna be the leading scorer on the Heat?

[Goran Dragic]

I agree neither have defense to right home about, but Bosh can D it up from time to time.
So can Amare, they are both equally shitty and inconsistent on defense, but at least Amare never let a 37 year old drop 45 points :lmao

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Here's a game where Bosh's amazing defense was on display that I watched:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200902270PHO.html

And yet he still shot 50% from the floor, and had a double double.

As for Amare.....oh of course, he was injured. Great game to choose from :tu

[DPG21920]

I think it is hilarious how your tune has changed Goran. Now you laugh at people saying Bosh is better than Amare? I think Bosh is better than Amare, but not by a huge margin when you take all factors into consideration.

But to laugh at people who say Bosh is better, when the difference between the two might not be great is the only thing that is laughable imo.

[Goran Dragic]

And yet he still shot 50% from the floor, and had a double double.
Notice how you didn't say anything about him being a "respectable defender".

[DPG21920]

:lol Bosh in an Amare role, are you saying Bosh is gonna be the leading scorer on the Heat?

His role will be secondary on the Heat, just like Amare on the Suns.

[Goran Dragic]

As for Amare.....oh of course, he was injured. Great game to choose from :tu
Amare didn't play because of a career threatening eye injury, Amare has never refused to play in a game where he was medically cleared to play, the same however cannot be said for RuPaul.

[DPG21920]

I think you will see Bosh be a much better defender next year.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think it is hilarious how your tune has changed Goran. Now you laugh at people saying Bosh is better than Amare? I think Bosh is better than Amare, but not by a huge margin when you take all factors into consideration.

But to laugh at people who say Bosh is better, when the difference between the two might not be great is the only thing that is laughable imo.

My favorite is his "Canadian dipshits" comment. And yet he brings weak take after weak take. The poster is a decent guy, but I think he needs to take the homer glasses off. I think nearly every team in the NBA would rather have Bosh than Amare. No question.

And truth is, I'm not even that crazy about either player.

[DPG21920]

Its pretty clear most every team would rather have Bosh. Amare was a plan B to Bosh in most cases.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Amare didn't play because of a career threatening eye injury, Amare has never refused to play in a game where he was medically cleared to play, the same however cannot be said for RuPaul.

Yet Bosh still puts up better stats and remains one of the best rebounders in the league. And Amare has missed way way more games than Bosh has. Amare = injury prone, Bosh, not so much. I agree that Bosh is a wuss when he actually does get injured. I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean Amare is a better player when they're both on the court.

[Goran Dragic]

Yet Bosh still puts up better stats and remains one of the best rebounders in the league. And Amare has missed way way more games than Bosh has. Amare = injury prone, Bosh, not so much. I agree that Bosh is a wuss when he actually does get injured. I'll give you that, but that doesn't mean Amare is a better player when they're both on the court.

:lol better stats?

Amare has career averages of more points, a higher FG%, more blocks, but puts up .5 less rebounds per game. He is better statistically.

Amare has missed games because of an unpreventable eye injury and knee injury. Outside of that he's been extremely healthy, Bosh misses games every year because his vagina swells up.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:lol better stats?

Amare has career averages of more points, a higher FG%, more blocks, but puts up .5 less rebounds per game. He is better statistically.

Amare has missed games because of an unpreventable eye injury and knee injury. Outside of that he's been extremely healthy, Bosh misses games every year because his vagina swells up.

Honestly, do you think most teams in the NBA would rather have Bosh or Amare on their team? Seriously.

[Goran Dragic]

Honestly, do you think most teams in the NBA would rather have Bosh or Amare on their team? Seriously.
:lol what happened to better stats or more injury prone?

[024]

i expected more lols from this thread.

[Goran Dragic]

Honestly, do you think most teams in the NBA would rather have Bosh or Amare on their team? Seriously.
Teams would take Bosh because of Amare's microfracture surgery and eye surgery, but if teams knew they both would stay healthy for the next 5 years, I bet more teams would take Amare.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:lol what happened to better stats or more injury prone?

Nothing. Bosh put up better stats than Amare this past season. Amare was in a contract year, Bosh had nothing to play for. Yes, the Suns are much deeper than the Raptors, but I'd rather take a vagina as my 3rd option than be stuck with an injury prone egomaniac as my #1 option for $100M. Amare got his contract and now he'll join Dumbtoni in obscurity.

[Goran Dragic]

Amare was in a contract year, Bosh had nothing to play for.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao Bosh wasn't in a contract year too?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Teams would take Bosh because of Amare's microfracture surgery and eye surgery, but if teams knew they both would stay healthy for the next 5 years, I bet more teams would take Amare.

Wrong. And Amare being healthy for even 1 year, let alone 5 is highly doubtful. Bosh is much more durable.

[Goran Dragic]

Bosh had a career year last year it's pretty fuckin retarded to only count his stats from last year when they're better than any of his other years, but it's what to expect from the fanbase that thinks a career season in 2009 made Parker a top 3 point guard.

[DPG21920]

Or maybe his finals MVP in 2007.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao Bosh wasn't in a contract year too?

Bosh already knew he was going to sign with Miami since 2008. Maybe you didn't read the first page of the thread when I mentioned that. Hence, why Bosh had nothing to play for. Him and Wade had to make the rounds with other teams to make them signing/resigning with Miami look more legit, but it was all a farce. Amare had no idea where he was going until the LBJ contract was signed. NYK didn't put anything official on the table for him until Lebron decided to go with Miami.

Bosh would never ever have bailed on the Raptors had he needed to play for a large contract, you kidding me? He might be a pussy bitch, but he's not that much of a retard. He obviously knew how much $ he was going to get and had already jumped ship from the Raptors much like Lebron in the 2nd round against Boston.

[Goran Dragic]

So it's just coincidence Bosh had his best statistical season the year his contract expires?

[Brazil]

wtf ? I'd prefer Bosh in my team vs. Amare no question.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh had a career year last year it's pretty fuckin retarded to only count his stats from last year when they're better than any of his other years, but it's what to expect from the fanbase that thinks a career season in 2009 made Parker a top 3 point guard.

Your argument was Amare >> Bosh. But that isn't the case. I'm not talking about how good Amare was in 2002 or 2006. I'm talking about right now. Amare has been through hell and back with his injuries and surgeries. He missed an entire season (and clearly wasn't missed) for God's sake. I'm talking about RIGHT NOW.

Right NOW more teams would take Dwight Howard over Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan may have had the better career, but as of RIGHT NOW, you're gonna with longetivity and durability.

So yeah, Bosh > Amare. Definitely.


And for the record, Parker was pretty damn good in 2009, but that's irrelevant now.

[Goran Dragic]

Bosh already knew he was going to sign with Miami since 2008. Maybe you didn't read the first page of the thread when I mentioned that. Hence, why Bosh had nothing to play for. Him and Wade had to make the rounds with other teams to make them signing/resigning with Miami look more legit, but it was all a farce. Amare had no idea where he was going until the LBJ contract was signed. NYK didn't put anything official on the table for him until Lebron decided to go with Miami.

Bosh would never ever have bailed on the Raptors had he needed to play for a large contract, you kidding me? He might be a pussy bitch, but he's not that much of a retard. He obviously knew how much $ he was going to get and had already jumped ship from the Raptors much like Lebron in the 2nd round against Boston.
So you're basically comparing Amare to someone who quits on his team and only plays hard when he has a reason to. OK.

[jacobdrj]

I think nearly every team in the NBA would rather have Bosh than Amare. No question.

And truth is, I'm not even that crazy about either player.

This.

[Goran Dragic]

Your argument was Amare >> Bosh. But that isn't the case. I'm not talking about how good Amare was in 2002 or 2006.
Amare wasn't in the league in 2002 and he missed the entire 2006 season, so idk what that's supposed to mean.


I'm talking about right now. Amare has been through hell and back with his injuries and surgeries. He missed an entire season (and clearly wasn't missed) for God's sake. I'm talking about RIGHT NOW.
You're talking about right now, yet bringing up the 2006 season Amare missed when right above you just said you're not talking about how good Amare was in 2006? You Canadians have weird logic.


Right NOW more teams would take Dwight Howard over Tim Duncan. Tim Duncan may have had the better career, but as of RIGHT NOW, you're gonna with longetivity and durability.

So yeah, Bosh > Amare. Definitely.
Last season Amare was 2nd all NBA and Bosh didn't make any team. While you think Bosh is better, the voters seem to disagree.



And for the record, Parker was pretty damn good in 2009, but that's irrelevant now.
And Bosh's 2010 season will be irrelevant once he's exposed in Miami.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So you're basically comparing Amare to someone who quits on his team and only plays hard when he has a reason to. OK.

You act like Amare is the ultimate team player. He's been bitching about his contract for ages, had issues with his coach (D'Antoni), and has been labeled as incredibly lazy for most of his career. Amare is ME first, team second guy. I'm not saying Bosh is an ultimate team player either. But you make it sound like Amare is a Mother Teressa.

Once again, if NYK told Amare last year (albeit, illegally) that they were gonna offer him $100M you think Amare would give a fuck about the Suns? No way. He'd have bailed ship as well. No question about it. Most players would.

[Goran Dragic]

You act like Amare is the ultimate team player. He's been bitching about his contract for ages, had issues with his coach (D'Antoni), and has been labeled as incredibly lazy for most of his career. Amare is ME first, team second guy. I'm not saying Bosh is an ultimate team player either. But you make it sound like Amare is a Mother Teressa.

Once again, if NYK told Amare last year (albeit, illegally) that they were gonna offer him $100M you think Amare would give a fuck about the Suns? No way. He'd have bailed ship as well. No question about it. Most players would.
Given how much Amare wanted to stay with the Suns I'd say Amare would have given a fuck about the Suns regardless. He did everything he could to stay with the Suns but ultimately couldn't leave $40 million guaranteed on the table.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Last season Amare was 2nd all NBA and Bosh didn't make any team. While you think Bosh is better, the voters seem to disagree.
[/QUOTE]

And Bosh was on the olympic team in 2008, so what's your point?

The thing is, as of right now, more teams would pick Bosh over Amare. That's all there is to it. If they really wanted to, I'm sure Wade could've asked Amare to come along instead. Or hell, Lebron could have made a stronger push for Amare to come to Cleveland last year, though I'm sure Kerr wasn't crazy to let him go.

Though in hindsight, both the Raptors and Suns should've traded their respective PF's this past trading deadline.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Given how much Amare wanted to stay with the Suns I'd say Amare would have given a fuck about the Suns regardless. He did everything he could to stay with the Suns but ultimately couldn't leave $40 million guaranteed on the table.

Uh no, if he wanted to stay with the Suns that badly he would've signed the extension. Countless times there were contract disputes with Amare. He wanted a max extension. Amare was only about one thing and that was the money. Bosh was only about one thing, and that was attention. Toronto could've offered Bosh a whopping $30M more to stay, but he left anyway. Amare was gonna jump ship regardless, and probably did the right thing since Sarver cutting ties with Kerr has put the team in a bit of a tight spot.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5266289

[Goran Dragic]

And Bosh was on the olympic team in 2008, so what's your point?

The thing is, as of right now, more teams would pick Bosh over Amare. That's all there is to it. If they really wanted to, I'm sure Wade could've asked Amare to come along instead. Or hell, Lebron could have made a stronger push for Amare to come to Cleveland last year, though I'm sure Kerr wasn't crazy to let him go.

Though in hindsight, both the Raptors and Suns should've traded their respective PF's this past trading deadline.
What does the olympics have to do with anything? If you're talking about right now, then I'd say the all NBA honors from last year are pretty relevant.

You sure are clinging onto something you have no way of proving. It's funny how you didn't respond to the part about how you aren't talking about 2006 Amare yet you were harping on the fact he missed an entire season.

And the Heat met with Amare before they met with Bosh, that didn't go anywhere because they didn't want to give Amare a 5 year deal because of his knee. If not for his knee, he woulda had just as much of a chance to go to the Heat as Bosh did.

[Goran Dragic]

Uh no, if he wanted to stay with the Suns that badly he would've signed the extension. Countless times there were contract disputes with Amare. He wanted a max extension. Amare was only about one thing and that was the money. Bosh was only about one thing, and that was attention. Toronto could've offered Bosh a whopping $30M more to stay, but he left anyway. Amare was gonna jump ship regardless, and probably did the right thing since Sarver cutting ties with Kerr has put the team in a bit of a tight spot.
:lol what extension? They never offered him the extension he wanted. After NY offered him the contract he signed, he went to the Suns and gave them an opportunity to match it. He waited as long as he could to opt out in hopes of agreeing to a new deal with Phoenix, but ultimately he had to take $100 million guaranteed over $60 million guaranteed.

[oh crap]

amuseddaysleeper: every team would take bosh over amare

link please

[Goran Dragic]

Amare was gonna jump ship regardless
Does going back to the Suns and giving them the opportunity to match the contract NY offered sound like someone who was gonna jump ship regardless?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And Bosh was on the olympic team in 2008, so what's your point?

The thing is, as of right now, more teams would pick Bosh over Amare. That's all there is to it. If they really wanted to, I'm sure Wade could've asked Amare to come along instead. Or hell, Lebron could have made a stronger push for Amare to come to Cleveland last year, though I'm sure Kerr wasn't crazy to let him go.

Though in hindsight, both the Raptors and Suns should've traded their respective PF's this past trading deadline.
What does the olympics have to do with anything? If you're talking about right now, then I'd say the all NBA honors from last year are pretty relevant.

You sure are clinging onto something you have no way of proving. It's funny how you didn't respond to the part about how you aren't talking about 2006 Amare yet you were harping on the fact he missed an entire season.

And the Heat met with Amare before they met with Bosh, that didn't go anywhere because they didn't want to give Amare a 5 year deal because of his knee. If not for his knee, he woulda had just as much of a chance to go to the Heat as Bosh did.[/QUOTE]

The Heat weren't gonna offer Amare an official contract because they already knew they were getting Lebron and Bosh. Amare just wanted to explore all of his options and being completely unaware of what Miami was really doing probably wanted to see what they could offer. I only brought up Amare in 2006 because you were pointing out his numbers from his 2nd year in the league without Nash. I'm talking about right now, hence why I brought up the Tim Duncan/Dwight Howard analogy. You can definitely argue that Amare has had a better overall career since he's played with Steve Nash and been on a much better team than Bosh. But if you put Bosh on those Suns teams they'd be even better. You put Amare on the Raptors, and he'd have 7 straight years of nothing but the lottery.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Does going back to the Suns and giving them the opportunity to match the contract NY offered sound like someone who was gonna jump ship regardless?

He knew the Suns weren't going to pay him though. If they were, they would have never even entertained the notion of trading him. He just wanted max money. It came down to money not loyalty. As I said before, Bosh walks away from $30M yet Amare goes to the owner with the deepest pockets. Nothing wrong with what Amare did, and he handled his exit much better than Bosh did, but you also have to ask yourself: Is Amare worth his salary? Hell no. Not even close. NYK was the only stupid enough to do that once they got desperate after losing out on LBJ. If the Timberwolves offered Amare more $ than NY he probably woulda gone there.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

amuseddaysleeper: every team would take bosh over amare

link please

considering Bosh had a lot more hype this offseason than Amare, I'd say it's true. If anything, people were annoyed Bosh was getting lumped in with Lebron and Wade. You never ever heard Amare mentioned in the same breath.

[Supergirl]

Neither Bosh or Amare can defend their way out of a paper bag. But Amare's offense is much more unguardable, much more multilayered than Bosh's. Bosh isn't franchise material, he knows it. Apparently, neither is Wade or Lebron. We'll see if Amare is - he apparently thinks he can be. On a team that doesn't expect him to play defense, he probably can be. That will be good enough to get the Knicks into the playoffs...but it won't be good enough to get very far.

[Goran Dragic]

The Heat weren't gonna offer Amare an official contract because they already knew they were getting Lebron and Bosh.
If that is so then why did they invite him for a meeting and have a presentation waiting for him?


Amare just wanted to explore all of his options and being completely unaware of what Miami was really doing probably wanted to see what they could offer.
If Miami knew they were getting Lebron and Bosh they wouldn't have wasted their time meeting with Amare. I can provide a link verifying the fact they met with Amare, my guess is you can't find a link verifying the fact they knew they were getting Lebron and Bosh.


I only brought up Amare in 2006 because you were pointing out his numbers from his 2nd year in the league without Nash.
I brought up his numbers without Nash in response to someone else completely unrelated to this argument.


I'm talking about right now, hence why I brought up the Tim Duncan/Dwight Howard analogy. You can definitely argue that Amare has had a better overall career since he's played with Steve Nash and been on a much better team than Bosh.
See, Dwight Howard was 1st all NBA and Tim Duncan was 3rd all NBA last year. Amare was 2nd all NBA and Bosh was no all NBA last year.


But if you put Bosh on those Suns teams they'd be even better. You put Amare on the Raptors, and he'd have 7 straight years of nothing but the lottery.
Yet another thing you can't prove

[Goran Dragic]

He knew the Suns weren't going to pay him though.
You said he was jumping ship regardless. Pick a lane and stick with it. He wanted to stay with the Suns and was willing to take less than the max to do so.


If they were, they would have never even entertained the notion of trading him. He just wanted max money. It came down to money not loyalty.
He didn't demand a max contract from the Suns. If it was only about money he wouldn't have made any effort to stay in Phoenix, he woulda opted out immediately and signed with the Knicks. Do you expect him to leave $40 guaranteed on the table and sign with the Suns?


As I said before, Bosh walks away from $30M yet Amare goes to the owner with the deepest pockets. Nothing wrong with what Amare did, and he handled his exit much better than Bosh did, but you also have to ask yourself: Is Amare worth his salary? Hell no. Not even close. NYK was the only stupid enough to do that once they got desperate after losing out on LBJ. If the Timberwolves offered Amare more $ than NY he probably woulda gone there.
If a 2nd all NBA player isn't worth the max, neither is a non all NBA player.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

If that is so then why did they invite him for a meeting and have a presentation waiting for him?


If Miami knew they were getting Lebron and Bosh they wouldn't have wasted their time meeting with Amare. I can provide a link verifying the fact they met with Amare, my guess is you can't find a link verifying the fact they knew they were getting Lebron and Bosh.


I brought up his numbers without Nash in response to someone else completely unrelated to this argument.


See, Dwight Howard was 1st all NBA and Tim Duncan was 3rd all NBA last year. Amare was 2nd all NBA and Bosh was no all NBA last year.


Yet another thing you can't prove


Amare's numbers without nash were pre surgery. He was a much different player health wise back then. Amare was 2nd all NBA because he went on a tear the 2nd half of the season. If Bosh played with Nash, I'm sure he'd be ALL NBA as well. Derrick Rose >> Amare, yet Rose didn't make All NBA. As for how I know about the Heat knowing about the LBJ/Wade/Bosh thing, I will try to find you an article (I believe it was sports illustrated) that discusses how the whole thing went down. Why did Wade visit Chicago? The teams had to everything they could to make this look like it was never planned. So of course the Heat are going to entertain other players. I'm sure if Durant hadn't signed an extension he'd be given a meaningless presentation as well. Miami had to put up an act to cover up the "scandal" by having LBJ and Bosh commit long before the July 1st date.

I will get you a link in regards to Lebron and Bosh, if you give me a bit. I'm sure there's a thread about it on this forum as well.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You said he was jumping ship regardless. Pick a lane and stick with it. He wanted to stay with the Suns and was willing to take less than the max to do so.


He didn't demand a max contract from the Suns. If it was only about money he wouldn't have made any effort to stay in Phoenix, he woulda opted out immediately and signed with the Knicks. Do you expect him to leave $40 guaranteed on the table and sign with the Suns?


If a 2nd all NBA player isn't worth the max, neither is a non all NBA player.

Wrong: http://www.mixmakers.net/forums/nba-rumors-articles-polls/196046-amare-wants-max-contract.html

He had no idea he was going to New York. He had to play hard so he could get the most money possible. Not sure if you know how a contract year works. See Erick Dampier for instance.

Oh, and Amare is getting more money than Bosh.

[DPG21920]

Bosh took less money by choice.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Wow, I just realized Goran Dragic and I have been arguing 3+ pages already :lol

[Goran Dragic]

Amare was 2nd all NBA because he went on a tear the 2nd half of the season. If Bosh played with Nash, I'm sure he'd be ALL NBA as well.
The tear Amare went on in the 2nd half last year was actually in spite of a terrible stretch for Nash. Most of his points were coming off isos and put backs.


Derrick Rose >> Amare, yet Rose didn't make All NBA.
Amare and Bosh play the same position. Rose has tons of competition at guard for all NBA, irrelevant comparison.


As for how I know about the Heat knowing about the LBJ/Wade/Bosh thing, I will try to find you an article (I believe it was sports illustrated) that discusses how the whole thing went down.
Was this an article with factual backing or an article that speculated?


Why did Wade visit Chicago?
Maybe because he didn't know from the get go he was staying in Miami.


The teams had to everything they could to make this look like it was never planned. So of course the Heat are going to entertain other players.
:lmao so let me get this straight, the Heat interviewing Amare was nothing more than a smokescreen coverup used to hide Lebron and Bosh conspiring to join Wade?


I'm sure if Durant hadn't signed an extension he'd be given a meaningless presentation as well. Miami had to put up an act to cover up the "scandal" by having LBJ and Bosh commit long before the July 1st date.
Durant wasn't a free agent. I'm not sure how he would have been given a presentation.


I will get you a link in regards to Lebron and Bosh, if you give me a bit. I'm sure there's a thread about it on this forum as well.
I'm guessing this link is a speculating article written by someone who has no factual way to prove it right.

[Goran Dragic]

Wrong: http://www.mixmakers.net/forums/nba-rumors-articles-polls/196046-amare-wants-max-contract.html.

From this article:


"We've got the fans excited about basketball again," Stoudemire said. "So what I don't want is for me to have to leave and the fans are now not quite as excited about the game here. I want to keep the hype, want to keep the fans involved, want to keep everybody ecstatic about the Phoenix Suns."
:lmao sounds like someone who didn't care about the Suns at all.

[Goran Dragic]

Not sure if you know how a contract year works. See Erick Dampier for instance.
Is this the same contract year Bosh was in last year?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The tear Amare went on in the 2nd half last year was actually in spite of a terrible stretch for Nash. Most of his points were coming off isos and put backs.


Amare and Bosh play the same position. Rose has tons of competition at guard for all NBA, irrelevant comparison.


Was this an article with factual backing or an article that speculated?


Maybe because he didn't know from the get go he was staying in Miami.


:lmao so let me get this straight, the Heat interviewing Amare was nothing more than a smokescreen coverup used to hide Lebron and Bosh conspiring to join Wade?


Durant wasn't a free agent. I'm not sure how he would have been given a presentation.


I'm guessing this link is a speculating article written by someone who has no factual way to prove it right.



The article was a Yahoo article (probably by Woroflkjg whatever his name is) who claimed to have sources that were part of the whole thing. I know Durant wasn't a free agent, but I said had he declined an extension he would have been one.

As for "so let me get this straight, the Heat interviewing Amare was nothing more than a smokescreen cover up used to hide Lebron and Bosh conspiring to join Wade?"

Yes, exactly. It already looks bad enough that the 3 of them planned all of this from the very beginning, hence why Lebron's "Decision" looks so bad. Because he knew well in advance but just didn't want to say anything to anyone (not even his hometown). It's tampering if Wade was already recruiting Bosh while he was under contract with the Raptors. Which it was, but the Heat had to make it look otherwise. Did you not hear Bosh accidently say "We've been looking forward to this for months....I mean days" at the press conference when they announce the trio signing with the Heat? Tons of uproar about it. All of it was pre-planned.


This isn't the exact article I was hoping for, but it does discuss how the 3 of them were discussing playing together as early as 2008, and that Wade's team had the best chance for it once Riley knew he could win Lebron over by showing him is championship rings:

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/inside_the_decision_miamis_cou.html

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Is this the same contract year Bosh was in last year?

Seriously, are you dumb? What do you not get about Bosh having absolutely nothing to play for. Amare knows he wants a max deal whether he deserves it or not. Had Bosh had no idea what what going to happen to him this free agency he would've played his ass off trying to secure him the best contract possible. Bosh already knew what he was going to be getting $ wise from Riley. All 3 of them had discussed it at Lebron's house.

And Amare kept talking about bringing Lebron to NYK, I'm sure he'd much rather have gone to Miami for $60M than stay with a declining Nash in Phoenix. He's still trying to get Paul and Melo to join him. As well as Parker. Bosh was just one step ahead.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What do you expect Amare to say, he understands how PR works (unlike Bosh). He wants money and will say whatever he can to prove his a big part of the culture there.

[Goran Dragic]

The article was a Yahoo article (probably by Woroflkjg whatever his name is) who claimed to have sources that were part of the whole thing.
So the best backing you have for your claim is an article written by someone with an obvious vendetta against Lebron?


As for "so let me get this straight, the Heat interviewing Amare was nothing more than a smokescreen cover up used to hide Lebron and Bosh conspiring to join Wade?"

Yes, exactly. It already looks bad enough that the 3 of them planned all of this from the very beginning, hence why Lebron's "Decision" looks so bad. Because he knew well in advance but just didn't want to say anything to anyone (not even his hometown). It's tampering if Wade was already recruiting Bosh while he was under contract with the Raptors. Which it was, but the Heat had to make it look otherwise. Did you not hear Bosh accidently say "We've been looking forward to this for months....I mean days" at the press conference when they announce the trio signing with the Heat? Tons of uproar about it. All of it was pre-planned.
Lebron's decision looked bad because it was narcissistic and something no free agent ever did before. If there was so much tampering why is it neither the Cavs nor the Raptors have gone after the Heat for it? You seem to be so sure there was tampering, I'm sure two teams deeply involved would also be sure if their was.



This isn't the exact article I was hoping for, but it does discuss how the 3 of them were discussing playing together as early as 2008, and that Wade's team had the best chance for it once Riley knew he could win Lebron over by showing him is championship rings:

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/inside_the_decision_miamis_cou.html
So the best you can find is an article written by a Cleveland paper butthurt about Lebron leaving and anxious to make Lebron look bad?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So you think there was no tampering whatsoever with the trio signing with Miami? David Stern said he wasn't going to investigate but obviously it had come up.

Do you even follow the NBA?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5371956

[Goran Dragic]

Seriously, are you dumb? What do you not get about Bosh having absolutely nothing to play for.
Something you have yet to prove.


Amare knows he wants a max deal whether he deserves it or not. Had Bosh had no idea what what going to happen to him this free agency he would've played his ass off trying to secure him the best contract possible. Bosh already knew what he was going to be getting $ wise from Riley. All 3 of them had discussed it at Lebron's house.
So why exactly did Bosh put up the best numbers of his career if he had "nothing to play for"? If he had nothing to play for and knew he was getting a contract regardless from Riley, then why didn't he put up the numbers he always put up?


And Amare kept talking about bringing Lebron to NYK, I'm sure he'd much rather have gone to Miami for $60M than stay with a declining Nash in Phoenix. He's still trying to get Paul and Melo to join him. As well as Parker. Bosh was just one step ahead.
More speculating you have no way of proving.

[Goran Dragic]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5371956
So what does this article prove?

[Goran Dragic]

So you think there was no tampering whatsoever with the trio signing with Miami? David Stern said he wasn't going to investigate but obviously it had come up.

Do you even follow the NBA?
It came up because it was something that had never happened in free agency. Just because something "comes up" doesn't make it true. If there was this much blatant tampering don't you think there woulda been an investigation?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh put up decent numbers because he's a good player who is entering his prime. He's only 25, and for the better part of the season the Raptors were a team in playoff contention. Even when he was posting double doubles, everyone up here was criticizing for not trying hard enough. Amare's game relies on athleticism. As that declines so will his game. Bosh is much more fundamentally sound.

And for the record, let's bump after the 2010/11 season, when Bosh makes All NBA and Amare doesn't.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It came up because it was something that had never happened in free agency. Just because something "comes up" doesn't make it true. If there was this much blatant tampering don't you think there woulda been an investigation?

No, because the trio signing is great for David Stern. Way too much $ involved for him to try and break it up. Obviously lots of fans are annoyed with it, but you're kidding yourself if you don't see the potential cash cow the Heat can bring in revenue for the NBA.

Plus come on, you're a Suns fan. You guys of all people should know David Stern isn't completely honest and has been known to look the other way. The Cavs and Raps don't wanna look any more butt hurt than they already do with their franchise players leaving. They'll eventually learn to move on.

[Goran Dragic]

Bosh put up decent numbers because he's a good player who is entering his prime. He's only 25, and for the better part of the season the Raptors were a team in playoff contention.
But you said he had nothing to play for? How could someone have a career year the season he has "nothing to play for".


Even when he was posting double doubles, everyone up here was criticizing for not trying hard enough. Amare's game relies on athleticism. As that declines so will his game. Bosh is much more fundamentally sound.
Link me to some threads during the season about him not trying.


And for the record, let's bump after the 2010/11 season, when Bosh makes All NBA and Amare doesn't.
And in the meantime Amare is the all NBA player and Bosh isn't.

[Goran Dragic]

No, because the trio signing is great for David Stern. Way too much $ involved for him to try and break it up. Obviously lots of fans are annoyed with it, but you're kidding yourself if you don't see the potential cash cow the Heat can bring in revenue for the NBA.
Surprised it took this long for Spurfan to involve Stern in his conspiracy theory.


Plus come on, you're a Suns fan. You guys of all people should know David Stern isn't completely honest and has been known to look the other way. The Cavs and Raps don't wanna look any more butt hurt than they already do with their franchise players leaving. They'll eventually learn to move on.
I'm not one to blame David Stern for the Suns fuck ups. And look at the OP of the thread you're posting in, Colangelo doesn't seem to care very much about not looking butt hurt. If there was any evidence of blatant tampering Toronto and/or Cleveland would run with it.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

"And in the meantime Amare is the all NBA player and Bosh isn't"

Only because Amare played with Nash. 70% of this board knows Bosh > Amare


And prior to the trading deadline, he was getting tons of crap for his lazy play:

http://www.basketballfreeforall.com/2010/01/13/an-open-letter-to-amare/


As for Bosh quitting, I'd post articles but then you'd whine about them being from Toronto who have a bias against Bosh.:wakeup

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Surprised it took this long for Spurfan to involve Stern in his conspiracy theory.


I'm not one to blame David Stern for the Suns fuck ups. And look at the OP of the thread you're posting in, Colangelo doesn't seem to care very much about not looking butt hurt. If there was any evidence of blatant tampering Toronto and/or Cleveland would run with it.

That's a first. And second of all, proving tampering in court is hard to do. Take a poll on whether or not the trio had been tampering but don't be too surprised when it's a resounding Yes.

[Goran Dragic]

As for Bosh quitting, I'd post articles but then you'd whine about them being from Toronto who have a bias against Bosh.:wakeup
They had a bias against Bosh "during the season"? You said people were accusing him of not trying "during the season".

[Amuseddaysleeper]

How could someone just shrivel up like a vagina (in your words) if they're having a career year. Wouldn't they want to keep it going?

Hence why Bosh > Amare. Even when he's not trying 100% he still had a better year than Amare.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

They had a bias against Bosh "during the season"? You said people were accusing him of not trying "during the season".

Towards the latter third of the season, yes.

[Goran Dragic]

"And in the meantime Amare is the all NBA player and Bosh isn't"

Only because Amare played with Nash. 70% of this board knows Bosh > Amare
I'm pretty sure if Bosh > Amare was so obvious the voters woulda given Bosh the all NBA nod over Amare.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I'm pretty sure if Bosh > Amare was so obvious the voters woulda given Bosh the all NBA nod over Amare.

Nope, because team success matters. Big time. You won't find too many players on fringe playoff teams making it to the All NBA team. Amare deservedly got a lot of hype when he started busting ass in the 2nd half of the season when the Suns made a push to secure a playoff spot when everyone left them for dead.


As for tampering:

"Wade wasn’t allowed to recruit for the Heat before the end of the NBA Finals, because he was still a Heat employee. Yet before the end of the Finals, there were two June meetings that involved Wade and members of James’ inner circle – one in Ohio and another in Chicago. The NBA doesn’t seem interested in pursuing a tampering probe, but a senior NBA official wants the league to investigate whether Riley promised James employment and benefits to members of his camp."

Taken from:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtzwFA78.SoijEyPkh1Flni8vLYF?slug=aw-heatfreeagency071610

[Amuseddaysleeper]

2009-10 All-NBA Teams

FIRST TEAM
Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland (122) 610
Forward Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City (107) 579
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando (122) 610
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers (119) 604
Guard Dwyane Wade, Miami (81) 520


SECOND TEAM
Forward Carmelo Anthony, Denver (9) 321
Forward Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (10) 356
Center Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix (2) 239
Guard Steve Nash, Phoenix (24) 366
Guard Deron Williams, Utah (14) 343

THIRD TEAM
Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio -- 125
Forward Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers -- 94
Center Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee -- 149
Guard Joe Johnson, Atlanta -- 118
Guard Brandon Roy, Portland -- 87


All of these players came from playoff teams.

[N4th4n]

2009-10 All-NBA Teams

FIRST TEAM
Position Player, Team (1st Team Votes) Points
Forward LeBron James, Cleveland (122) 610
Forward Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City (107) 579
Center Dwight Howard, Orlando (122) 610
Guard Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers (119) 604
Guard Dwyane Wade, Miami (81) 520


SECOND TEAM
Forward Carmelo Anthony, Denver (9) 321
Forward Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas (10) 356
Center Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix (2) 239
Guard Steve Nash, Phoenix (24) 366
Guard Deron Williams, Utah (14) 343

THIRD TEAM
Forward Tim Duncan, San Antonio -- 125
Forward Pau Gasol, L.A. Lakers -- 94
Center Andrew Bogut, Milwaukee -- 149
Guard Joe Johnson, Atlanta -- 118
Guard Brandon Roy, Portland -- 87


All of these players came from playoff teams.

Exactly, the reason Toronto was not a playoff team was because Bosh was a huge bitch.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Exactly, the reason Toronto was not a playoff team was because Bosh was a huge bitch.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

So if Amare was on the Raptors, they would have made the playoffs? Really? A contract year gave him something extra to play for, but I think Amare is just as much of a bitch as Bosh. Amare has been criticized plenty during his career.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/07/05/20100705phoenix-suns-amare-stoudemire-plan.html

:lol :lol :lol :lol @ the comments from Suns fans

[Amuseddaysleeper]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=855139

And even Suns fans think Bosh > Amare

/thread

Was fun :toast

[picc84]

Bosh played great defense during the Olympics. I don't know if his lackluster D in the NBA so far has been due to not caring or not playing with the same caliber of players, but I expect him to play better D this year.

[Obstructed_View]

Chris Bosh is horribly overrated, even in this thread.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh played great defense during the Olympics. I don't know if his lackluster D in the NBA so far has been due to not caring or not playing with the same caliber of players, but I expect him to play better D this year.

When motivated he can play passable defense, though I suppose you could say the same for Amare. I think like Vince Carter, he just gave up towards the end of his final year with the Raptors. They had a good first half to the season.

[oh crap]

Chris Bosh is horribly overrated, even in this thread.

[N4th4n]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=855139

And even Suns fans think Bosh > Amare

/thread

Was fun :toast

Alot of Suns fans are fucking stupid, just like alot of NBA fans in general are fucking stupid. You being case in point.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Alot of Suns fans are fucking stupid, just like alot of NBA fans in general are fucking stupid. You being case in point.

Says the faggot whose a Suns fan himself :wakeup

[Brazil]

we need a poll !

[Cane]

Wow Colangelo's an idiot. Why the hell would you slam a former star player especially if no one wants to come to Toronto unless they get overpaid anyway. :downspin:

[Xylus]

I'd take Amare over the Rupaul of Big Men.

[Mike-in-brazil]

Amuseddaysleeper http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/nba/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4542204#post4542204)
Toronto was rarely featured on the US national broadcasting schedule

so how come we all knew about vince and tracey ....vince made team usa when he played for the raptors so did Bosh it's not about being scene.
oh riddle this!??!Bosh did make team usa and amare didn't
even with suns being viewed more mmmmmmmm i wonder why??

[NuGGeTs-FaN]

So 2 of the Heat's leaders are known quitters, this should go down well if the Heat ever hit trouble :lmao

Wade is the only Heat star with any heart.

[ambchang]

Bosh has been overrated by some segments of NBA fans here for a wihle.

Bosh could be a fantastic 2nd or 3rd fiddle, but like the article said, he can never be a cornerstone type of player.

He is a poor man's version of Garnett on offense, and his defense is poor due to his slight frame and his attitude.

I would take Amare over Bosh any day of the week, and I hate Amare.

[lefty]

Bosh has been overrated by some segments of NBA fans here for a wihle.

Bosh could be a fantastic 2nd or 3rd fiddle, but like the article said, he can never be a cornerstone type of player.

He is a poor man's version of Garnett on offense, and his defense is poor due to his slight frame and his attitude.

I would take Amare over Bosh any day of the week, and I hate Amare.

It's easy to say that Bosh is overrated

It's not his fault if his team has sucked and that he hasnt had a good coach yet
Plus, Amare has played with a 2 time MVP, Bosh hasn't

And nobody said he was overrated when the Raptors won their division

[picc84]

So 2 of the Heat's leaders are known quitters, this should go down well if the Heat ever hit trouble :lmao

Wade is the only Heat star with any heart.

Two hearts, don't forget the one he took from the city of Dallas.

Maybe he'll share one with Rupaul. :lol

[Greg Oden]

picc84 makes it a point to post about Dallas at least a couple times a day.

[ambchang]

It's easy to say that Bosh is overrated

It's not his fault if his team has sucked and that he hasnt had a good coach yet
Plus, Amare has played with a 2 time MVP, Bosh hasn't

And nobody said he was overrated when the Raptors won their division

Check my history on Bosh, I felt he has been overrated after his rookie season. He is incredibly quick for a guy his size, has amazing agility, but his defense is poor. He has all the tools, but never put that to use.

The year the Raptors won the Atlantic? They were 47-35. The Raptors played some defense. In the 14 games Bosh didn't start, the Raptors were 7-7.

And who else was in the division? The Nets (41-41), 76ers (35-47), Knicks (33-49), and Celtics (24-58). It was definitely the tallest midget situation.

[Mel_13]

Sorry Mel, I got you confused with Amuseddaysleeper.

:toast

[DPG21920]

Picklebreath confused on the argument, shocking.

[DPG21920]

I think it is hilarious how your tune has changed Goran. Now you laugh at people saying Bosh is better than Amare? I think Bosh is better than Amare, but not by a huge margin when you take all factors into consideration.

But to laugh at people who say Bosh is better, when the difference between the two might not be great is the only thing that is laughable imo.

Stop breathing through your mouth, picklebreath. It is the wrong way to breathe tbh.

[SpursDynasty85]

Amare has proven this year that he is much, much better than Bosh. Replace Bosh with him on the Heat, so Lebron and Wade actually have a pick and roll weapon/interior scorer instead if a shooting guard in a power forward's body, good luck to any team beating them in the playoffs.


Its sort of like the Jordan/Kobe argument. One is the flashier more talented player. While the other is just the mentally and physically stronger. Bosh is undoubtedly more skilled than Amare, but Amare is a bully and could physically beatdown bosh and alot of other players.

[HeavyWeight]

Well, whoever said Bosh was better is looking like a idiot now. hahaha

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh is a third option, Amare is a first.

Bump this at the end of the year, and I'll gladly give Amare his props.

NY has had a very soft schedule lately, and we all know Amare goes through spurts where he plays really well, and then goes back to going through the motions.

He is having a very solid season so far, no doubt.

Also, it's obvious picklebreath = DoK/Goran Dragic poster.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yet the team with Amare as the main option is only 1 game worse than the team with Bosh as the 3rd option, and both teams have had equally soft schedules. What's Bosh's team's record against above .500 teams again?

Tell you what, at the end of the season, let's see who has the better record vs +.500 teams. I have no problem giving Amare his due, dude has been beasting. Bosh's play has improved over the past few games. Funny how we didn't see this thread being made when NY got off to a mediocre start. You only make this once a 7 game win streak against soft teams happened.

At the end of the year let's see which team will have the better record against +.500 teams and if the Knicks even make the playoffs.

Trust me, I'll be more than happy to give Amare his credit, but if he was a third option he wouldn't be doing that much better than Bosh. I also love how you feel Bosh should get all of the blame for Miami's struggles instead of bringing up how Wade and LBJ need the ball in their hands at all times which makes the team's construction pretty flawed. Amare also wouldn't help the interior D much either.

[DPG21920]

Amare is playing much, much better than Bosh, although both got off to slower starts and have picked it up.

Again, you have to look at the situation. Amare has a usage rate of 30+, while Bosh is only around 23.

Amare is playing with a guy in Felton who is playing like a top 5 PG, but even though he is their 2nd best player, he only has a usage rate of 22. They play at an extremely high pace compared to MIA who is one of the slowest teams in the league.

Bosh plays with two players who's usage rates are up above 30. Amare has no one even close to that, as the 2nd best player on his team is far below that.

Yes, in theory, playing with Wade/Lebron should be easier, but if you look at how things have played out and what that team is, it is a lot of ignoring the post, a lot of grinding things out and focus on defense.

There is a reason why MIA is the best defensive team in the league and why they play at a snails pace.

NY doesn't play defense. They are 18th in defensive efficiency while MIA is #1. Even though NY plays at 3rd fastest pace, they are still behind MIA in offensive efficiency (meaning when normalizing the numbers, MIA is the better offensive team).

So don't act like Amare has definitively proven anything yet. Use your brain and evaluate the situation. Amare is playing better but my point remains, whomever you believe is better, the difference is probably not that great. If things keep going they way they are, Amare will definitely but enough gap between the two to say he is definitively better, but from everything we have seen for their careers, it could be argued either way.

[DPG21920]

Oh gee I wonder why Felton is playing like a top 5 PG, it couldn't possibly be because he's playing with Amare, could it?

I wonder why Wade/Lebron are playing so well and have PERs of 20+, it couldn't possibly be because they are playing with Bosh down low, could it?

I wonder why MIA is the number one defensive team in the league, it couldn't be because of Bosh, could it?

I wonder why MIA is a better offensive team than NY, it couldn't be because they chose Bosh over Amare, could it?

[DPG21920]

You have terrible arguments and even when you end up being correct, it is not because you understand what happened, it is because of blind dumb luck.

If everyone pointed out when you were wrong, there would be so many bumped threads that there would be no room for the new ones, which is a shame tbh..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Unlike Bosh, Amare is capable of playing without the ball in his hands. He'd be beasting as a pick and roll threat for Lebron and Wade to use since he's definitely one of the best finishers in the game. Bosh meanwhile, prefers to chuck jumpers and stay away from the rim, so Lebron and Wade struggle to run pick and rolls with him. Amare would excel in Bosh's role a lot more than Bosh is.

Maybe Amare wouldn't help their perimeter defense, but he wouldn't let Paul Millsap drop 46 points either.

I don't know about "a lot" more. And LOL at thinking Raymond Felton being a potential top 5 PG is thanks to Amare. Amare is gonna miss 15 games this season due to some random injury, dude is very injury prone.

Why are you being DoK's bitch anyway? Or at least admit that you're him?

[DPG21920]

1) No, Bosh doesn't play down low. He prefers to shoot jumpers. The Heat are one of the worst teams at getting points in the paint, so I'm not sure how much having Bosh "down low" has helped them. Maybe if he actually played down low, he would help.

2) What do you think? Is the strength of Miami's defense it's perimeter defense or interior defense? Most would say their interior D is a weakness.

3) Miami's offensive rating is 110.7, New York's offensive rating is 110.6. So far, Miami has been better offensively by the slimmest of margins. Do you really think their good offense has more to do with Bosh or more to do with Lebron or Wade?

So you can't answer anything with numbers to back them up and you are validating all the numbers I gave were correct.

Thanks for playing.

[DPG21920]

Amare is playing much, much better than Bosh, although both got off to slower starts and have picked it up.

Again, you have to look at the situation. Amare has a usage rate of 30+, while Bosh is only around 23.

Amare is playing with a guy in Felton who is playing like a top 5 PG, but even though he is their 2nd best player, he only has a usage rate of 22. They play at an extremely high pace compared to MIA who is one of the slowest teams in the league.

Bosh plays with two players who's usage rates are up above 30. Amare has no one even close to that, as the 2nd best player on his team is far below that.

Yes, in theory, playing with Wade/Lebron should be easier, but if you look at how things have played out and what that team is, it is a lot of ignoring the post, a lot of grinding things out and focus on defense.

There is a reason why MIA is the best defensive team in the league and why they play at a snails pace.

NY doesn't play defense. They are 18th in defensive efficiency while MIA is #1. Even though NY plays at 3rd fastest pace, they are still behind MIA in offensive efficiency (meaning when normalizing the numbers, MIA is the better offensive team).

So don't act like Amare has definitively proven anything yet. Use your brain and evaluate the situation. Amare is playing better but my point remains, whomever you believe is better, the difference is probably not that great. If things keep going they way they are, Amare will definitely but enough gap between the two to say he is definitively better, but from everything we have seen for their careers, it could be argued either way.

Address everything in here and use numbers/facts, not opinion, to back up why I am wrong, K, thanks.

[DPG21920]

Couldn't be because of pace, could it? Couldn't be due to a PG friendly system that allowed Duhon (without Amare) to post career numbers, could it?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Couldn't be because of pace, could it? Couldn't be due to a PG friendly system that allowed Duhon (without Amare) to post career numbers, could it?

DPG bringing the goods :toast

[DPG21920]

Also, just to clarify, all of the "could it's" I'm posting are not because I actually believe it. I post them to show how stupid it is to make random arguments that are clearly more correlation than causation.

[Mel_13]

If it's not because of Amare then what is the reason Felton has made a random and huge improvement in his play when he had more or less been the same player for 5 straight years? Last season he had his worst numbers since his rookie year, if it's not Amare, then explain why Felton goes from his 2nd worst season statistically to BY FAR his best season statistically?

Asked



Couldn't be because of pace, could it? Couldn't be due to a PG friendly system that allowed Duhon (without Amare) to post career numbers, could it?

Answered

[Mel_13]

Just to clarify, what this hypothetical says is that Felton isn't really a top 5 PG, he's just in a system that inflates his stats and makes him look better than he is. How many different PGs does Amare need to be successful with before you admit he's good on his own and don't attribute his good play to whoever the PG on his team is?

Anyone that says Amare is not a good player is an idiot. Similarly, anyone who won't admit that his numbers have been inflated by playing the great majority of his career in D'Antoni's system is delusional.

[DPG21920]

Ignoring that you made a terrible argument :lol

[YoungB]

Prior to this year, yes. Now that we see Amare is just as efficient as the 1st option as he is as Nash's sidekick, while Bosh is just as inefficient as the 3rd option as he is as the 1st option, Amare is the better player.

This. Bosh's game just never passed the eyeball test to me, he's shitty as a #1 option and apparently not effective without the ball in his hand as a #3 option. First big man I've ever known to have his rebounding and shot blocking numbers dip just because he's playing besides superstar GUARDS. I could see his rebounding and shot blocking numbers dip if he was playing alongside dwight howard, but that's not even the case. 7.5 rebounds and .6 blocks per game as a supposed "superstar big man" is just pathetic.

[DPG21920]

I never attributed Amare's good play strictly to the PG's he is playing with. Never. I also never said he wasn't a good player. I said that based on everything I have seen during their careers that I think Bosh is better. I also said that I can see why someone could argue Amare.

I said Amare is playing better now.

You just keep making terrible arguments and piggybacking on arguments that are not your own.

What I did do is evaluate the circumstances both players are in. You have failed to do so.

[YoungB]

Anyone that says Amare is not a good player is an idiot. Similarly, anyone who won't admit that his numbers have been inflated by playing the great majority of his career in D'Antoni's system is delusional.

Not sure how D'Antoni's system is helping him get a steal a game as a big man, grab a fair amount of defensive rebounds, and get 2 blocks. Funny how guys like Joe Johnson's fg% stayed the same during his years in phoenix as it has with other teams, meaning that a playing at a faster pace may get you more shots and therefore more points, but it won't necessarily make you convert at a higher efficiency. Amare's career fg% is ridiculous.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:corn:

[Mel_13]

The pace does inflate his numbers

Thank you

[DPG21920]

Last year, when Bosh's usage rate was comparable (still lower) to Amare's this year, he posted:

24 PTS, 10.8 REBS, 2.4 AST, 1 BLK, 2.4 TO's, 52% FG

This year, Amare:

26.1 PTS, 9.1 REBS, 2.4 AST, 1.9 BLK, 3.9 TO's, 53% FG

You were saying....

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Not sure how D'Antoni's system is helping him get a steal a game as a big man, grab a fair amount of defensive rebounds, and get 2 blocks. Funny how guys like Joe Johnson's fg% stayed the same during his years in phoenix as it has with other teams, meaning that a playing at a faster pace may get you more shots and therefore more points, but it won't necessarily make you convert at a higher efficiency. Amare's career fg% is ridiculous.

Of course playing at a faster pace can get you to convert at a better rate assuming you're on a fast break which can consistently get you easy buckets. You have a much better chance of converting on a basket in transition than you would in the halfcourt since all 5 defenders would be present in a halfcourt situation as oppose to a fast break where you can have strength in numbers on offense.

[DPG21920]

I'm anxious to hear why my argument is terrible. I'm using stats and facts just as you wished.

You are not using facts. At all. You are using opinion. Try again. You have yet to refute any numbers I gave you with numbers.

All you do is say "Raymond Felton" over and over.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Amare does most of his damage at the rim as a receiver in pick and roll situations, Joe Johnson's game is based on the perimeter.

Emeka Okafor has a crazy FG % as well.

Once again, huge props to Amare. ESPN voted him as the worst signing of the offseason but he has done well in proving many people wrong. My only concern is to see if he keeps it up and how the Knicks do a the end of the year. He's been tearing it up against soft teams.

Has he been better than Bosh so far this year? Totally, can't argue that.

[DPG21920]

But you attributed some of it to Raymond fucking Felton of all people. Pretty much any starting caliber PG can do for Amare whatever the fuck Raymond Felton does. I don't know how my arguments are terrible when you're trying to claim a virtual no-name PG is part of why Amare has been so successful this year.

I said playing with a PG who is playing well, but has a low usage rate compared to a guy playing with two guys who get the ball all the time and play at an extremely slow pace explains some of the difference in the stats.

[YoungB]

Of course playing at a faster pace can get you to convert at a better rate assuming you're on a fast break which can consistently get you easy buckets. You have a much better chance of converting on a basket in transition than you would in the halfcourt since all 5 defenders would be present in a halfcourt situation as oppose to a fast break where you can have strength in numbers on offense.

Faster pace doesn't necessarily mean you're getting all of your points on the fast break, nor does it lead to a higher fg%. For one, most of Amare's points never came from fast break's, he was their only option in the half court set.

Marion is still shooting his usual 50% from the field with Dallas, Johnson's fg% went UP the year after he left for Atlanta, etc. No key player from the former Dantoni suns suffered fg% wise from leaving the system.

[MaNu4Tres]

Amare> Bosh ..always has, always will. IMO

Even though they've had relatively the same numbers in recent years. Amare is much more versatile and physical offensive player, who can score inside and out.

[DPG21920]

Also, an argument you are failing to take into consideration is a lot of people's concern with Amare over Bosh had nothing to do with this year. It is the long-term viability of him that had people concerned.

Also, saying that focusing on one number (efficiency) proves every other argument wrong is silly.

[Mel_13]

Last year was a career year for Bosh. It's not indicative if the player he's been his entire career.

Geez, you do realize that DPG's point all along has been that difference between the two players is relatively small?

Look at their career numbers, they're quite close:

Games:
Bosh: 533
Amare: 540

PPG:
Bosh: 20.1
Amare: 21.6

RPG:
Bosh: 9.3
Amare: 8.9

FGA per game:
Bosh: 14.4
Amare: 14.4

FG %:
Bosh: .492
Amare: .543

[DPG21920]

It seems like you're the one doing that.

:lol You should slowly creep out of this thread. Even if you are using someone else's argument which appears to be correct at the moment, the fact you have no idea how to arrive at the correct response makes you look silly.

[BUMP]

Holy fuck it's amazing how far these idiots will go to defend Bosh when Amare is clearly the better player.

DoK 1
Bosh Krew 0

Sucks that DoK is no longer around to nail these guys to the tree of woe, tbh

[YoungB]

Geez, you do realize that DPG's point all along has been that difference between the two players is relatively small?

Look at their career numbers, they're quite close:

FG %:
Bosh: .492
Amare: .543

That's a pretty massive gap in fg%, mostly due in part that Amare plays the game like a man and Bosh lacks the ability to get high % shots at the rim. Amare is better.

Plus the gap is only widening as Amare starts to focus more on defense and rebounding, which both seem to be improved this year.

[DPG21920]

What does being efficient have to do with the fact Bosh plays with 2 players who have usage rates of 30+?

[Mel_13]

Bosh only has Amare beat at one stat. Amare is clearly the more efficient offensive player.

By a relatively small margin. Which is pretty much what DPG has said all along.

When you look at the totality of the two players, they both landed in the right place.

Bosh is better suited to the subordinate role he plays in Miami and Amare is better suited to the leading role he plays in New York.

[DPG21920]

That's a pretty massive gap in fg%, mostly due in part that Amare plays the game like a man and Bosh lacks the ability to get high % shots at the rim. Amare is better.

Plus the gap is only widening as Amare starts to focus more on defense and rebounding, which both seem to be improved this year.

Ok. That still doesn't change the fact that at the time the arguments were made, the logic was sound.

No one who said Bosh>Amare back then is saying Bosh is playing better than Amare now, so what is your point?

[Mel_13]

That's a pretty massive gap in fg%, mostly due in part that Amare plays the game like a man and Bosh lacks the ability to get high % shots at the rim. Amare is better.

Plus the gap is only widening as Amare starts to focus more on defense and rebounding, which both seem to be improved this year.

Amare's rebounding is only slightly better than Bosh this season. Given that he's often the only big on the court for NY, one would think his numbers would be better. Landry Fields has the same rebounding percentage as Amare.

[YoungB]

By a relatively small margin. Which is pretty much what DPG has said all along.

When you look at the totality of the two players, they both landed in the right place.

Bosh is better suited to the subordinate role he plays in Miami and Amare is better suited to the leading role he plays in New York.

How can you consider a number one option and a number 3 option equals??

[Mel_13]

How can you consider a number one option and a number 3 option equals??

I don't.

[YoungB]

Amare's rebounding is only slightly better than Bosh this season. Given that he's often the only big on the court for NY, one would think his numbers would be better. Landry Fields has the same rebounding percentage as Amare.

And exactly what quality big men are out there on the court stealing rebounds away from Bosh??

[DPG21920]

Holy fuck it's amazing how far these idiots will go to defend Bosh when Amare is clearly the better player.

DoK 1
Bosh Krew 0

Sucks that DoK is no longer around to nail these guys to the tree of woe, tbh

DoK got plastered to the tree of woe on the regs. Just like in the Bargnani thread where he is still finding his way back, tbh.

[Mel_13]

It ain't like Bosh is playing next to a rebounding stud at center.

:lmao

Avoiding the point. You can do better.

[YoungB]

I don't.

But you consider them really close? :wtf Doesn't make that much sense to me.

[DPG21920]

49% and 54% is a small margin? I guess the difference between Kobe's efficiency and MJ's efficiency (45% and 49%) is also a small margin.

Look at the turnovers. That is a big margin as well. Amare, when compared to Bosh at a high usage rate, is a turn over machine.

[Mel_13]

49% and 54% is a small margin? I guess the difference between Kobe's efficiency and MJ's efficiency (45% and 49%) is also a small margin.

FG % is the only measure of efficiency?

Career PER:

Amare: 22.6
Bosh: 21.2

[Mel_13]

But you consider them really close? :wtf Doesn't make that much sense to me.

You haven't been the following the discussion from the beginning.

[YoungB]

Amare's repertoire offensively >> Bosh's. He's a much more gifted player offensively, harder to defend against, a true number one option (while it's been pointed out Bosh is better suited to a subordinate role) and scores the rock at a much higher fg%. Anyone making a case for Bosh should be focusing more on the rebounding or other aspects of the game (less turnovers?? :lol) because suggesting that Bosh is better offensively is pretty retarded.

[DPG21920]

Last year anyone who argued Bosh>Amare said if he was, it was only by an iddy bitty bit. Do you not get this?

[Mel_13]

Look who's is higher son.

smh

[YoungB]

So last year, Spurfan argued Bosh > Amare. Now, they're saying Amare > Bosh but just by an iddy bitty bit. Does anyone notice the direction this is going?

:lmao True. Spur fans have a (almost maybe subconscious?) bias against Amare because of those head to head playoff series back in the day. If I was a spur fan I'd hate Amare too..:lol

[DPG21920]

Amare's repertoire offensively >> Bosh's. He's a much more gifted player offensively, harder to defend against, a true number one option (while it's been pointed out Bosh is better suited to a subordinate role) and scores the rock at a much higher fg%. Anyone making a case for Bosh should be focusing more on the rebounding or other aspects of the game (less turnovers?? :lol) because suggesting that Bosh is better offensively is pretty retarded.

Retarded like a MavFan that says they wouldn't trade Roddy B for Manu :lol

[DPG21920]

Why did you feel the need to argue about it if you felt it was just by an iddy bitty bit?

Because that was the basketball topic I felt like discussing since it was interesting.

If you don't understand anything, don't have your own opinion and make terrible arguments, why do you choose to piggy back other peoples arguments?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So last year, Spurfan argued Bosh > Amare. Now, they're saying Amare > Bosh but just by an iddy bitty bit. Does anyone notice the direction this is going?

Totally, which why at the end of the season I will gladly give Amare his props. But it is a long season, let's just see how it plays out is all I'm saying.

[Mel_13]

that's telling me

That's really about all you deserve at this point.

[DPG21920]

:lmao True. Spur fans have a (almost maybe subconscious?) bias against Amare because of those head to head playoff series back in the day. If I was a spur fan I'd hate Amare too..:lol

You realize the Spurs have owned the Suns overall correct? MavFan is getting dumber by the second.

[BUMP]

Last year anyone who argued Bosh>Amare said if he was, it was only by an iddy bitty bit. Do you not get this?

Ha! Not so fast my friend!


Bosh >>>> Amare.

No doubt, but Colangelo needs to stfu and start focusing on trying to build a better team instead of making dumbass trades and even worse draft picks.

[Mel_13]

true, spurfan still smells skunk :lol

NBA history says MavFan never gets to call scoreboard.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

You realize the Spurs have owned the Suns overall correct? MavFan is getting dumber by the second.

And not to mention the whole idea from the Spurs is to let Amare get his and shut down everyone else.

[DPG21920]

true, spurfan still smells skunk :lol

:lol Mav fans living through the Suns because they couldn't beat the Spurs in the playoffs.

If you are a Suns fan, you can talk trash. If you are a Mav fan, you just sit there quietly waiting for a chance to redeem yourself.

[YoungB]

Because that was the basketball topic I felt like discussing since it was interesting.

If you don't understand anything, don't have your own opinion and make terrible arguments, why do you choose to piggy back other peoples arguments?

He hasn't made a terrible argument at all. In the eyes of myself, Bump, and I'm sure others he's totally outmatched you here. I'm not much for advanced stats but as a student of the game for this many years now, and someone who's played at least a bit at the collegiate level, I'm just shocked that anyone could suggest Bosh is as good as Amare. Bosh's whole career has been a fraud, and now he's getting exposed in Miami.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Ha! Not so fast my friend!

To be honest I never thought Bosh was on another level than Amare though I can see with all the ">>>>>" why it would seem that way. I just thought Bosh was better. There was an argument to be made between him and Amare for sure, but I did think Bosh was better last year, absolutely.

[DPG21920]

Because their arguments are fine. No need for me to make new ones when you're still gonna argue against the ones that are right.

No. You are incapable of arguments of your own because you don't understand what you are arguing :lol.

Especially when it pertains to me and the points I was making.

[DPG21920]

Ha! Not so fast my friend!

Ok, well, that was not my argument.

[YoungB]

You realize the Spurs have owned the Suns overall correct? MavFan is getting dumber by the second.

That still doesn't mean you couldn't still harbor some bitter bias because of the heated series and smack talk between fans?

[DPG21920]

He hasn't made a terrible argument at all. In the eyes of myself, Bump, and I'm sure others he's totally outmatched you here. I'm not much for advanced stats but as a student of the game for this many years now, and someone who's played at least a bit at the collegiate level, I'm just shocked that anyone could suggest Bosh is as good as Amare. Bosh's whole career has been a fraud, and now he's getting exposed in Miami.

:lol Please show me how his arguments, have outmatched mine based on the point I was making.

Please use direct quotes. K, thanks.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I wasn't talking trash, the skunker is just my best guess as to why Spurfan is trying SOOOOOOO hard in this thread to hang onto their claim that Amare is no better than Bosh.

But we've already stated Amare is having the better year. Plus, you didn't bother to bump this until the Knicks winning streak.

[YoungB]

To be honest I never thought Bosh was on another level than Amare though I can see with all the ">>>>>" why it would seem that way. I just thought Bosh was better. There was an argument to be made between him and Amare for sure, but I did think Bosh was better last year, absolutely.

Bosh's game just never passed the eyeball test to me, and now it's being exposed that I was right all along. 7 rebounds and .6 blocks per game, the man ain't shit without the ball in his hands 24/7. I've been Bosh's biggest critic since his high school days out in Dallas.

[DPG21920]

That still doesn't mean you couldn't still harbor some bitter bias because of the heated series and smack talk between fans?

So are you showing a bias saying PB has totally outmatched me because the Spurs dismantled your team in the playoffs?

[DPG21920]

Curious that you say PB (mav fan), yourself (mav fan) & bump (mav fan) all think a mav fan outmatched a Spurs fan in the argument.....

Curious spot you have put yourself in.

[YoungB]

So are you showing a bias saying PB has totally outmatched me because the Spurs dismantled your team in the playoffs?

I'm saying that because it's obvious that Bosh's game has some fundamental flaws which are being exposed in Miami?

[Mel_13]

I wasn't talking trash, the skunker is just my best guess as to why Spurfan is trying SOOOOOOO hard in this thread to hang onto their claim that Amare is no better than Bosh.

This is why I smh.

Look at everything that has been posted TODAY.

Where has anyone said that Amare is no better than Bosh?

It's your shtick to erroneously state the positions of others and then argue against the falsely stated position.

[DPG21920]

No, that is not what you are saying. Please show me how his arguments outmatched mine.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

But we refuse to admit he's a better player:cry

I'll admit he's the better player at the end of the season, even though we are comparing a 1st option to a 3rd option which is going to make this kind of comparison flawed to begin with.

And YoungB, I agree with you that like Amare, Bosh isn't very good without the ball in his hands either.

[YoungB]

No, that is not what you are saying. Please show me how his arguments outmatched mine.

Not going to get baited into typing up an essay for you to just easily try to discredit whenever the proof is already in the pudding for those with eyes?

[DPG21920]

Not going to get baited into typing up an essay for you to just easily try to discredit whenever the proof is already in the pudding for those with eyes?

That is what I thought. You must go to the school of picklebreath debating.

lol Mavs

lol Roddy B over Manu

lol Spurs owning the Mavs in the playoffs last year

[BUMP]

To be honest I never thought Bosh was on another level than Amare though I can see with all the ">>>>>" why it would seem that way. I just thought Bosh was better. There was an argument to be made between him and Amare for sure, but I did think Bosh was better last year, absolutely.

That defense wouldn't hold up in a court of law, tbh

"I know I said this but I really didn't mean it like that"

It's ok, just accept the nailing to the tree of woe and move on. We've all been there at some time. While my takes are always solid, I've had my share of nailings courtesy of the DoK's and mono's of the world

[DPG21920]

Curious that you say PB (mav fan), yourself (mav fan) & bump (mav fan) all think a mav fan outmatched a Spurs fan in the argument.....

Curious spot you have put yourself in.

K, thanks.

[DPG21920]

That defense wouldn't hold up in a court of law, tbh

"I know I said this but I really didn't mean it like that"

It's ok, just accept the nailing to the tree of woe and move on. We've all been there at some time. While my takes are always solid, I've had my share of nailings courtesy of the DoK's and mono's of the world

Sons, you seriously overstate DoK's nailing abilities. Maybe it is because you miss him and remember him fondly.

Just arguing and saying racist comments doesn't mean his basketball takes were that good.

They were solid at times, but he was not plastering people.

[YoungB]

That is what I thought. You must go to the school of picklebreath debating.

lol Mavs

lol Roddy B over Manu

lol Spurs owning the Mavs in the playoffs last year

Even spur fan (Amuseddaysleeper) agrees Amare > Bosh?

A #1 option and a guy best suited to 2nd or 3rd banana aren't on the same level brah.

[DPG21920]

This thread is an example of him plastering people. Just because he happened to be out numbered by a bunch of moronic spurs fans who are consumed by blind hatred towards Amare doesn't change the fact he was right about everything he said in here. Other times, like whatever the Andrea Bargnani argument was he was wrong, but in this thread he was right.

Ya, Spurs fans have this blind hatred towards Amare for all of those playoff defeats and how they stopped the Spurs from their chance at title over and over and over and over.

[BUMP]

Sons, you seriously overstate DoK's nailing abilities. Maybe it is because you miss him and remember him fondly.

Just arguing and saying racist comments doesn't mean his basketball takes were that good.

They were solid at times, but he was not plastering people.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7HTO3jP-_lk/SskazXDFLmI/AAAAAAAAFNo/sAZ2cVsDmos/s400/thulsa-doom.jpg

[DPG21920]

Spurs would definitely have at least one ring if it wasn't for Amare's playoff heroics against the Spurs over the years.

This isn't Wade to the Mavs type stuff we are dealing with. Spurs owned the Suns. So that is just another terrible argument from the man who's name is literally translated to "terrible argument"

[YoungB]

Ya, Spurs fans have this blind hatred towards Amare for all of those playoff defeats and how they stopped the Spurs from their chance at title over and over and over and over.

Spur fans sneer at anyone related to the D'antoni era suns because of the heated battles between the 2 teams in the playoffs and the heated exchanges between the fans, tbh. Doesn't that make sense to you, or do you have to be a psychologist in order for your brain to get that?

[DPG21920]

Do you disagree the Spurs owned the Suns?

[DPG21920]

Spur fans sneer at anyone related to the D'antoni era suns because of the heated battles between the 2 teams in the playoffs and the heated exchanges between the fans, tbh. Doesn't that make sense to you, or do you have to be a psychologist in order for your brain to get that?

Heated battles? You mean the ones the Spurs dominated over and over? Mavs Spurs had heated battles because the Mavs actually beat the Spurs sometimes.

We scoff Dan', we don't hate them. We loved seeing them.

[YoungB]

Heated battles? You mean the ones the Spurs dominated over and over? Mavs Spurs had heated battles because the Mavs actually beat the Spurs sometimes.

We scoff Dan', we don't hate them. We loved seeing them.

Like how you're scoffing Amare now by suggesting a 3rd banana like Bosh is his equal. Thanks for playing.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

That defense wouldn't hold up in a court of law, tbh

"I know I said this but I really didn't mean it like that"

It's ok, just accept the nailing to the tree of woe and move on. We've all been there at some time. While my takes are always solid, I've had my share of nailings courtesy of the DoK's and mono's of the world

As I've stated many times before in this thread, by the end of the season I will gladly admit defeat. Amare is beasting.

And it definitely wouldn't be the first time I was wrong either....or the last.

[DPG21920]

No. Fail. Again. Per the usual.

YoungB with the fails.


Would you trade Caron/Roddy for Manu?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Like how you're scoffing Amare now by suggesting a 3rd banana like Bosh is his equal. Thanks for playing.

If you put Amare on the Heat, he'd be a third option too, no question.

[DPG21920]

Funny, because in this thread Spurfan has been polishing the knob of D'antoni and his system.

No one said D's system doesn't inflate numbers. We can still scoff it. Just like I scoff you now.

[DPG21920]

You particularly don't need to wait till the end of the season. The claim that "Bosh >>>>> Amare" (or however many > things you used) was retarded to begin with but looks even dumber now.

So you are saying that before this year, with all of their career numbers, that it wasn't close?

[YoungB]

No. Fail. Again. Per the usual.

YoungB with the fails.


Would you trade Caron/Roddy for Manu?

Can we lease him for 2011 only, then give him back?

[DPG21920]

Can we lease him for 2011 only, then give him back?

Just answer the question, brah.

[YoungB]

Just answer the question, brah.

Yes I'd lease Manu for 2011

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Not if you watched both of them play. A lot more goes into it than numbers. As youngB said, Bosh never passed the eye test. Bosh just doesn't have the court presence Amare has.

How many games featuring Bosh on the Raptors did you see? Because I know Toronto hardly got on National TV

[DPG21920]

I'm pretty sure most mavfan would agree (or at least me anyway) that RIGHT NOW roddy for manu is a great trade but we wouldn't do it because of age.

Well then most Mav fan is retarded. Which we all knew because they never passed the eye ball test tbh.

[YoungB]

Well then most Mav fan is retarded. Which we all knew because they never passed the eye ball test tbh.

Aha! Mav fan scoffed your little trade proposal, is that why you're upset right now? :lmao

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Not trading Roddy for Manu would be the dumbest thing possible. The Mavs window isn't open for much longer, of course you do the trade, you kidding me?

[DPG21920]

Aha! Mav fan scoffed your little trade proposal, is that why you're upset right now? :lmao

Mav fan is retarded overall.

[YoungB]

Mav fan is retarded overall.

Where's your supporting argument, DPG? You're really slipping, tbh. Because you have the most awesomest arguments while everyone else arguments are "terrible arguments." :lmao

[BUMP]

It's funny to see the direction the Bosh Krew has taken this thread. So many goalposts being moved

First it went from "Bosh>Amare"

then to "Amare>Bosh but only by a little!!"

then to "Spurs own the Mavs/Suns so you all just hate me :cry:cry:cry"

then to "4 rings faggot"

then to ":lmao:lmao:lmaoMavfan doesn't want to trade Roddy for Manu what idiotzz :lmao:lmao:lmao"

[Amuseddaysleeper]

The ones I did see I saw a very very poor man's Dirk Nowitzki settle for jumpers, refuse to play in the post even if given a favorable matchup, and play terrible defense.

Bosh has never been a post player, and clearly seen many Raptors games. Not that you were missing out on much cuz the team sucked, but I live in Torono, I've seen Bosh many many times, and being a Spurs fan with league pass I've seen a hell of a lot of Amare as well.

And as far as Bosh's career being a "fraud" I don't see how a guy who puts up consistently good numbers year in and year out is a fraud. Amare wouldn't have taken the Raps past the first round either. Hell, he probably won't even take the Knicks past the first round and they're a much better team.

I do believe Bosh could put up similar numbers on the Knicks seeing as how their offense is allowing for 5 (almost 6, Toney Douglas with 9.7) player to average double figures.

[YoungB]

Bump, with the goods on par for the course, per usual tbh, imho fwiw.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

It's funny to see the direction the Bosh Krew has taken this thread. So many goalposts being moved

First it went from "Bosh>Amare"

then to "Amare>Bosh but only by a little!!"

then to "Spurs own the Mavs/Suns so you all just hate me :cry:cry:cry"

then to "4 rings faggot"

then to ":lmao:lmao:lmaoMavfan doesn't want to trade Roddy for Manu what idiotzz :lmao:lmao:lmao"

Would you trade Roddy for Manu?

And picklebarrell, I hear you on Roddy being the future, but with the Mavs being as good as they are right now even without Roddy, if you add Manu, you guys would probably become the favorites. I don't think Dirk's game will fall off for another couple years since he doesn't play in the post and have the wear and tear.

Wouldn't you rather be an instant favorite now with the current core?

[Ignignokt]

All i know is that 34 yr old Tim Duncan with Plantar Fascitis is rebounding at 9rpg with 7 minutes less than Bosh. I just don't see what potential Bosh has, he's like a less talented Jermaine Oneal in his youth. Posters like DPGinobilli90210 need to take off their rose colored glasses and see the reality for what it is.

A soft black cuckold like Bosh would probably risk his girl getting cuckolded by Matt Bonner and Dirk Nowitzki rebounding at a pathetic 7rpg and being 7ft tall.

I understand living in San Antonio and contracting the Beetus from all those Chachos nachos and burritos has deteriorated your kidneys and your vision. But before you start nonsense like this, inject insulin into your system, get a penis pump, fuck your fat sancha and realize what it was to be a real man. Then and only then will you wake up and realize you're projecting all your beta qualities unto Bosh and your connection with him is personal.


lol Bosh!!

When is he gonna unzip his skin suit and come out as Matt Bonner?

[YoungB]

And as far as Bosh's career being a "fraud" I don't see how a guy who puts up consistently good numbers year in and year out is a fraud. Amare wouldn't have taken the Raps past the first round either.

Bosh took his team to the 2nd round in the lEAST, where 38-44 gets you into the playoffs :lmao



I do believe Bosh could put up similar numbers on the Knicks seeing as how their offense is allowing for 5 (almost 6, Toney Douglas with 9.7) player to average double figures.

Sure he could, it'd be Toronto all over again. He'd have all the touches he wanted and put up his little numbers, but there'd be a difference. There wouldnt be 5 other guys putting up double figures, because they're shooters feeding off the double teams and attention Amare diverts away from them, and the team would be considerably worse.

[YoungB]

All i know is that 34 yr old Tim Duncan with Plantar Fascitis is rebounding at 9rpg with 7 minutes less than Bosh. I just don't see what potential Bosh has, he's like a less talented Jermaine Oneal in his youth. Posters like DPGinobilli90210 need to take off their rose colored glasses and see the reality for what it is.

A soft black cuckold like Bosh would probably risk his girl getting cuckolded by Matt Bonner and Dirk Nowitzki rebounding at a pathetic 7rpg and being 7ft tall.

I understand living in San Antonio and contracting the Beetus from all those Chachos nachos and burritos has deteriorated your kidneys and your vision. But before you start nonsense like this, inject insulin into your system, get a penis pump, fuck your fat sancha and realize what it was to be a real man. Then and only then will you wake up and realize you're projecting all your beta qualities unto Bosh and your connection with him is personal.


lol Bosh!!

When is he gonna unzip his skin suit and come out as Matt Bonner?


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

GG, game over, /thread tbh

[Amuseddaysleeper]

How are the Knicks a better team? Bosh's supporting cast last year > Amare's supporting cast this year.

No way, come on man. Let's not push it. Last year's team was brutal, one of the worst defensive teams of all time. Raymond Felton is better than anyone on the Raps outside of bargnani.

Look at the Raptors without Bosh. They are brutal. They have virtually nobody. The team is led by a poor man's Dirk. The only bright spots for them so far have been Reggie Evans and Amir Johnson.

I'd take Felton, Randolph (who deserves more PT), Azubuke, Fields, Gallanari, and even Turfiaf over a lot of what the Raptors have.

Put Randolph on the Raps and he'd be like their third best player last year yet be barely gets playing time in NY.

[BUMP]

Would you trade Roddy for Manu?

And picklebarrell, I hear you on Roddy being the future, but with the Mavs being as good as they are right now even without Roddy, if you add Manu, you guys would probably become the favorites. I don't think Dirk's game will fall off for another couple years since he doesn't play in the post and have the wear and tear.

Wouldn't you rather be an instant favorite now with the current core?

No dumbass.

That's been the fucking problem with the Mavs over the decade is that they make knee-jerk trades and throw away future picks for guys that are on the last legs of their career. That's how GM's get fired. Roddy showed promise last season so it would be smart to give the kid a chance.

It's obvious that Manu>>>>Roddy right now but he's 11 years older and only has a couple prime years left. On top of all that, it doesn't make the Mavs a whole lot better then they are right now

[DPG21920]

No dumbass.

That's been the fucking problem with the Mavs over the decade is that they make knee-jerk trades and throw away future picks for guys that are on the last legs of their career. That's how GM's get fired. Roddy showed promise last season so it would be smart to give the kid a chance.

It's obvious that Manu>>>>Roddy right now but he's 11 years older and only has a couple prime years left. On top of all that, it doesn't make the Mavs a whole lot better then they are right now

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Amuseddaysleeper]

No dumbass.

That's been the fucking problem with the Mavs over the decade is that they make knee-jerk trades and throw away future picks for guys that are on the last legs of their career. That's how GM's get fired. Roddy showed promise last season so it would be smart to give the kid a chance.

It's obvious that Manu>>>>Roddy right now but he's 11 years older and only has a couple prime years left. On top of all that, it doesn't make the Mavs a whole lot better then they are right now

Uh dumbass, giving the Mavs a legit #2 option as well as a closer wouldn't make the Mavs a whole lot better than they are now? You serious?

[Roddy Beaubois]

Roddy>>>>Manu tbh. The guy is just washed up imho.

[DPG21920]

Where's your supporting argument, DPG? You're really slipping, tbh. Because you have the most awesomest arguments while everyone else arguments are "terrible arguments." :lmao

My argument is that Mav fans are clearly so retarded that the ones with only slight retardation such as yourself choose to post at a Spurs forum where the fans are not retarded instead of with all of the retards at a site with the name MavsTalk or something like that.

The fact that the slightly retarded fans cannot even post with the full blown retarded fans that root for the same team, shows and clearly proves my point that Mav Fan in general is retarded.

Please reply only with facts and not opinions to this. K, thanks.

[DPG21920]

It's funny to see the direction the Bosh Krew has taken this thread. So many goalposts being moved

First it went from "Bosh>Amare"

then to "Amare>Bosh but only by a little!!"

then to "Spurs own the Mavs/Suns so you all just hate me :cry:cry:cry"

then to "4 rings faggot"

then to ":lmao:lmao:lmaoMavfan doesn't want to trade Roddy for Manu what idiotzz :lmao:lmao:lmao"

This is the evolution of all threads on ST

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OU__m51axDM/SnSWWxEaUrI/AAAAAAAAAEk/yUZO5e_zRcw/s400/LizardKing+copy.jpg

[YoungB]

Question for the Bosh Krew: what kind of numbers would Felton and Bosh put up if they were on the same team? Tbh, Bosh would average 40 and Felton would average 15+ assists.

Amare once averaged 37ppg, in a playoff series against Duncan, better make it 45 points for Bosh just so it's not close, God forbid we're right back where we started.

[DPG21920]

PB, you breath is showing the slight retardation to which I was referring. You might need a mint to cover up the putrid smell of pickle so you can move around without being discovered.

[jag]

Right now it's egos and feelings arguing Bosh > Amare.

No one using any kind of logic would argue that Bosh is a better player than Amare.

[BUMP]

Uh dumbass, giving the Mavs a legit #2 option as well as a closer wouldn't make the Mavs a whole lot better than they are now? You serious?

Look I realize watching Manu rape B-list competition gets you guys all hot and bothered but if I were to make trade a 22 yr old for a 33 yr old player at this point it would take a couple of reasons.

1. The 33 year old player would have to be one of the elite players in the league

2. He can't have a history of injury problems

3. The Mavs would have to suck

None of those is true. I will say this however, if this were last season and we were completely sucking at the trade deadline (pre-Caron trade) I would do this in a heartbeat. As it stands, we're on an 11 game win streak and one of the best teams in the West, so this makes a knee jerk trade like this all the more retarded.

And the fact that I'm arguing with a dumbass who thought "Bosh>>>>>Amare" pretty much means that I'm right anyway

[DPG21920]

that's telling me


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