Firefighters, or Art?

[Wild Cobra]

Nice to know that art has survived city budget cuts. they will lay off figher fighters instead:

The Art of the Ann Arbor City Budget (http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/13219)

[Veterinarian]

This is total bullshit. Good link WC. :tu

[CosmicCowboy]

My son went to law school there. Ann Arbor is like Austin North X10. The students run the town.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not an either or situation. Its easy to get outraged but the city is powerless to change it because the money that is funding that piece of art was raised for that and the account rules in place do not allow for using it for anything other than art.

In any event, if the students run the town they're doing something right. Ann Arbor is an incredibly nice place.

[Wild Cobra]

Its not an either or situation. Its easy to get outraged but the city is powerless to change it because the money that is funding that piece of art was raised for that and the account rules in place do not allow for using it for anything other than art.

In any event, if the students run the town they're doing something right. Ann Arbor is an incredibly nice place.
But it is an outrage. Here in Portland, OR. We have the same 1% committed to art. over the last several years, and outrage of citizens to repeal that, the demonrats prefer to lay of needed services, instead of changing the law.

This is unforgivable.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh so unforgivable. The drama! An outrage! If they can get by without the firefirghters then isn't it just the free market at work, WC?

[ChumpDumper]

Artrage!

[Wild Cobra]

Artrage!
LOL....

There's one i agree with you on.

[CosmicCowboy]

Its not an either or situation. Its easy to get outraged but the city is powerless to change it because the money that is funding that piece of art was raised for that and the account rules in place do not allow for using it for anything other than art.

In any event, if the students run the town they're doing something right. Ann Arbor is an incredibly nice place.

Oh, it's definitely a nice place to visit or be a student at. I loved Zingermans. I would just hate to be a full time resident and pay property taxes there with the students deciding how much to tax and how the money gets spent.

You are being disingenuous to say "the money was raised for art". The money was raised for essential services and the law mandated that a percentaghe be spent on art.

[MannyIsGod]

WC - championing government increases in Ann Arbor!

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, it's definitely a nice place to visit or be a student at. I loved Zingermans. I would just hate to be a full time resident and pay property taxes there with the students deciding how much to tax and how the money gets spent.

You are being disingenuous to say "the money was raised for art". Apparently the vote said if the city spends $900,000 for water mains and sewers (normally considered essential ,services) they have to spend $100,000 for water related art.

How am I being disingenuous? If a city decides X out of Y amount of dollars go to art, that money goes to art. If they accounting rules say you can't use it for other projects, then those are the rules the residents decided on.

What you seem to fail to realize is that this is what the residents want. So it really doesn't matter what you or WC want.

[CosmicCowboy]

How am I being disingenuous? If a city decides X out of Y amount of dollars go to art, that money goes to art. If they accounting rules say you can't use it for other projects, then those are the rules the residents decided on.

What you seem to fail to realize is that this is what the residents want. So it really doesn't matter what you or WC want.

The REAL residents that live and pay taxes there or the student transients that don't?

[ChumpDumper]

The REAL residents that live and pay taxes there or the student transients that don't?Which taxes do the students not pay?

Do you want to take away their vote?

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, those students always the ones on the city councils!

[CosmicCowboy]

Which taxes do the students not pay?

Do you want to take away their vote?

Of course not. Let them vote absentee in their hometowns.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. I could give a fuck if Ann Arbor wants to waste $850,000 on a water sculpture that will be an ice sculpture 7 months a year.

[MannyIsGod]

So CC the students pushed the public art fund through, huh? Can you give me a link or two to read up on that?

[MannyIsGod]

Well everyone here is arguing for the sake of arguing but you're just doing it really poorly.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course not. Let them vote absentee in their hometowns.So you don't want them to vote where they live.

OK.

[CosmicCowboy]

So CC the students pushed the public art fund through, huh? Can you give me a link or two to read up on that?

You have been there. You know how it works. That is, if you paid attention which is highly unlikely.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, I know how it works in just about every city across this nation. Students don't run any of them. The people with money do.

How many students sit on the Ann Arbor city council, CC?

[CosmicCowboy]

Ann Arbor has what...114,000 people total? UM has what 60,000 students and faculty?

Even someone as stupid as Manny should be able to see who has the voting power in Ann Arbor.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Of course not. Let them vote absentee in their hometowns.


what if they don't have a home town? army brats?

[MannyIsGod]

How many of those live in Ann Arbor? How many live in Ypsilanti or other areas? If you would have paid attention when you were there you might know some of these answers.

Out of the ones that live in Ann Arbor how many are registered to vote there? What was their turnout in the last local election?

[Blake]

But it is an outrage. Here in Portland, OR. We have the same 1% committed to art. over the last several years, and outrage of citizens to repeal that, the demonrats prefer to lay of needed services, instead of changing the law.

This is unforgivable.

Councilman Kunselman, democrat, agrees.


Ann Arbor City Council member Stephen Kunselman, a Democrat, opposed the art deal.

"I think it is incredibly insensitive," Kunselman said. "It is insensitive to the staff and their morale. It is insensitive to the community. There are people out there struggling financially, and here we are spending a large amount of money on a piece of art."

[George Gervin's Afro]

Councilman Kunselman, democrat, agrees.

demonrats!

[MannyIsGod]

Rabhi’s efforts have brought what he estimates to have been 15 or 20 students to the voting polls — a figure that surpasses incumbent Greden’s expectation of fewer than a dozen students turning up.

Rabhi said that he wanted to “show (Greden) that more students vote than expected.”

South Quad poll worker Valerie Yodhes said that by 6 p.m., a total of 57 votes had been cast, including 19 absentee ballots. By 8 p.m. when the polls closed, the total count was 68 ballots, representing a turnout of 4.45 percent.

LOL Students destroying the Ann Arbor polls.

http://www.michigandaily.com/content/2009-08-03/kunselman-and-anglin-win-ann-arbor-city-council-primary-elections

[MannyIsGod]

UM students showing their massive voting power!!!!


Ann Arbor – University of Michigan students turned out this Tuesday for the Nov. 3 General Election, voting in record numbers at student precincts across campus. On average, student voters increased turnout by 450 percent. At one polling location, South Quad, the increase in turnout was more than 775 percent.
At the time of this release, student voter turnout increased by 555 percent at the Coliseum polling location, an increase from 31 voters in 2007 to 203 voters in 2009.

http://umichdems.com/blog/?p=8074

Is this what I was supposed to be paying attention to CC?

[Jekka]

My son went to law school there. Ann Arbor is like Austin North X10. The students run the town.

That's bullshit. Austin's population of obnoxious hipsters vastly eclipses Ann Arbor's, so Ann Arbor can't be "Austin North."

But anyway, there is no way that students run the town. They can't - most aren't residents. Tons of money goes towards student services and the campus in Ann Arbor, but that's a function of the outrageous out of state tuition that UM is allowed to charge non-resident students, plus a huge budget supported by one of the biggest public university endowments in the country.

Ann Arbor is run by a predominantly progressive and educated resident base who stick around because they like the environment enough to put up with the property taxes (which, by the way, don't fund the students nearly so much as they support the homeless population that continuously migrates over from Detroit).

If what you really meant was that the university - as opposed to the students - has a huge effect on how Ann Arbor functions, then I agree. But the students do not run the town.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Councilman Kunselman, democrat, agrees.

he must be a frosh

[FromWayDowntown]

LOL Students destroying the Ann Arbor polls.

http://www.michigandaily.com/content/2009-08-03/kunselman-and-anglin-win-ann-arbor-city-council-primary-elections

Come on, Manny. Anyone with a brain knows that its not actually the sheer number of votes that the students offer but the need of elected officials in Ann Arbor to placate the whims of students to ensure that they continue to be invited to keggers and raves.

It's very similar with Columbia students and their dramatic impact on New York City politics.

[Jekka]

Come on, Manny. Anyone with a brain knows that its not actually the sheer number of votes that the students offer but the need of elected officials in Ann Arbor to placate the whims of students to ensure that they continue to be invited to keggers and raves.

It's very similar with Columbia students and their dramatic impact on New York City politics.

:lol

[Veterinarian]

The people of Ann Arbor are seriously retarded if they're choosing art over a better fire fighting crew.

[rjv]

The people of Ann Arbor are seriously retarded if they're choosing art over a better fire fighting crew.

now that's hyperbole albeit i believe the gross exaggeration originated with the media piece itself (or more specifically, the manner in which it was posted)

[Oh, Gee!!]

The debate in Ann Arbor, [red herring alert] where firefighters are being laid off due to a multimillion dollar budget deficit, is over an $850,000 piece of art.

[LnGrrrR]

Shouldn't WC be happy about this? After all, less firefighters = less people in government!

:lol

They could always go to a volunteer force, like the town my parents live in.

[rjv]

of course, it would be the greatest irony if michigan won a national title, the students set fire to the campus and then they had nothing but a painting to throw on it.

i know, i know this is impossible. i mean, really...michigan winning a national title ?

[George Gervin's Afro]

of course, it would be the greatest irony if michigan won a national title, the students set fire to the campus and then they had nothing but a painting to throw on it.

i know, i know this is impossible. i mean, really...michigan winning a national title ?

my chica is a michigan alum..she's not a big Rich Rod fan...

[Jekka]

my chica is a michigan alum..she's not a big Rich Rod fan...

None of us are big Rich Rodriguez fans right now.

[rjv]

None of us are big Rich Rodriguez fans right now.


osu fans probably love him, however.

[Jekka]

osu fans probably love him, however.
http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/1618209/view/1/producttypecolor/4/type/png/width/280/height/280

[Blake]

Shouldn't WC be happy about this? After all, less firefighters = less people in government!

:lol

one would think


They could always go to a volunteer force, like the town my parents live in.

Or we could all hire our own fire fighting companies and let the free market dictate supply and demand.

Some of us might be ok with not paying for a fire fighter and just letting our house burn down.

[Wild Cobra]

i know, i know this is impossible. i mean, really...michigan winning a national title ?
They already have a national title...

A citizen who is the biggest fat liar in the world! Claims Flint Michigan as his hometown, but he was born and raised in a wealthy suburb, Davison.

Anyone guess his name, and the number of deceits he has perpetrated?

[Wild Cobra]

Shouldn't WC be happy about this? After all, less firefighters = less people in government!

It's not like you to act stupid, so I will take that as sarcasm. A smaller government means good basic services. Not eliminating all services. I'm not an anarchist.

[LnGrrrR]

It's not like you to act stupid, so I will take that as sarcasm. A smaller government means good basic services. Not eliminating all services. I'm not an anarchist.

I figured the smiley face after that comment would give away the fact that it was tongue-in-cheek. :)

[SnakeBoy]

I was thinking it would be cool if someone burned down that art then I saw it was water sculpture...elite bastards thought of everything!

[LnGrrrR]

I was thinking it would be cool if someone burned down that art then I saw it was water sculpture...elite bastards thought of everything!

See? No need for firefighters! They'll just carry the water sculpture over to whatever building is burning down. :lol

[rjv]

See? No need for firefighters! They'll just carry the water sculpture over to whatever building is burning down. :lol


better be careful-WC may think you're serious about that.

[CosmicCowboy]

back to bucket brigades!

[Oh, Gee!!]

It's not like you to act stupid, so I will take that as sarcasm. A smaller government means good basic services. Not eliminating all services. I'm not an anarchist.

they're not eliminating the fire department, dimwit; they're considering laying off 6 of their 80-something firefighters according to comments posted after the Op-Ed. and if you'd read the article, you'd notice that only $6000.00 out of the fund that pays city employees is being used on the art project; the rest is money set aside specifically for art projects. I don't think $6000.00 could pay for one firefighter, let alone six of them. The actual debate is whether it's sensitive to go through with the art project when the city is in debt. One demonrat says it is isn't. The argument is not whether firefighters should be fired at the expense of artistic expression.

[DMX7]

The art is also a one time expense... maybe. :)