Support for Mexican border fence up to 68%

[DarrinS]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/support_for_mexican_border_fence_up_to_68





Support for the building of a fence along the Mexican border has reached a new high, and voters are more confident than ever that illegal immigration can be stopped.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 68% of U.S. voters now believe the United States should continue to build a fence on the Mexican border. That’s up nine points from March when the Obama administration halted funding for the fence and the highest level of support ever.

Just 21% oppose the continued building of the border fence.

Support for the fence is strong across all demographic groups. But while 76% of Mainstream voters think the United States should continue to build the fence, 67% of the Political Class are opposed to it.

Forty-seven percent (47%) of all voters believe it is possible to end illegal immigration. That’s up slightly from April of last year.

Now only 36% do not think it is possible for the United States to prevent illegal immigrants from getting into the country. That’s down sixteen points since October 2008.

(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.

The survey of 1,000 Likely U.S. Voters was conducted on July 24-25, 2010 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

Illegal immigration, always a concern to many voters, has taken on increased visibility due to the controversy over Arizona’s new immigration law. The state law went into effect today, but a federal judge has put several of its more controversial provisions on hold until a Justice Department legal challenge of the law is resolved.

Fifty-six percent (56%) of voters nationwide oppose the Justice Department’s decision to challenge the Arizona law, and 61% favor passage of a law like Arizona’s in their own state.

Fifty-four percent (54%) say the Justice Department instead should take legal action against cities that provide sanctuary for illegal immigrants. Even more think the federal government should cut off funds to these “sanctuary cities.”

Most voters ages 40 and older say it is possible for the United States to end illegal immigration. Republicans by better than two-to-one are more confident than Democrats that it’s possible. Voters not affiliated with either party are more closely divided on the question.

Most members of the Political Class, however, say it can’t be done. Fifty-six percent (56%) of Mainstream voters say it is possible to stop illegal immigration, but 58% of the Political Class disagree.

Sixty-eight percent (68%) of voters say the Political Class doesn’t care what most Americans think anyway.

The number of voters who view the issue of immigration as Very Important has jumped 16 points from last month to its highest level ever, although it still ranks fifth on a list of 10 issues regularly tracked by Rasmussen Reports.

In December 2008, just after President-elect Obama put Janet Napolitano, an opponent of the border fence, in charge of immigration activities, 74% of voters said the federal government was not doing enough to stop illegal immigration.

Sixty-four percent (64%) of voters believe the federal government by failing to enforce immigration law is more to blame for the current controversy over Arizona’s new statute than state officials are for passing it.

In fact, by a two-to-one margin, voters believe the policies of the federal government encourage people to enter the United States illegally.

Voters also have said consistently for years that when it comes to immigration reform, gaining control of the border is more important than legalizing the status of undocumented workers already living in the United States.

Still, 58% favor a welcoming immigration policy that excludes only national security threats, criminals and those who come here to live off the U.S. welfare system.

[MannyIsGod]

There have seldom been bigger wastes of money proposed as a fence along the Mexican border. What benefit does a fence have over thousands of miles of deadly desert?

[DarrinS]

There have seldom been bigger wastes of money proposed as a fence along the Mexican border. What benefit does a fence have over thousands of miles of deadly desert?



Maybe we can get the Mexicans to build it.

[Winehole23]

^^^Seldom responds to any direct question, but quick to demand answers to his own.

[CosmicCowboy]

Maybe we can get the Mexicans to build it.

:lmao

They probably will!

[coyotes_geek]

The fence is a great idea. We'll be able to keep out every Mexican who doesn't have access to a ladder.

[ChumpDumper]

The fence is a great idea. We'll be able to keep out every Mexican who doesn't have access to a ladder.Or a shovel.

[hater]

Or a shovel.

Or a pole vault.

[cheguevara]

Or a pole vault.

Or a catapult.

[ElNono]

Or a catapult.

Or a trebuchet.

[MannyIsGod]

Or a trebuchet.

This is about Mexicans, not about the French.

[ChumpDumper]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:vSkFBV3wC8zvEM:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/i/512xn/53d8cbec5e63c5036a9ab36f26ab195f1e34f310.jpg&t=1

[LnGrrrR]

Or a trebuchet.

Or wire cutters.

[ElNono]

This is about Mexicans, not about the French.

I thought it was about Americans...

[Oh, Gee!!]

Or a trebuchet.

or a David Blaine

[ElNono]

Or wire cutters.

Or Spring Boots.

http://www.ubergizmo.com/photos/2007/5/anti-grav-boots.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

Or a catapult.


Or a trebuchet.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:vSkFBV3wC8zvEM:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/i/512xn/53d8cbec5e63c5036a9ab36f26ab195f1e34f310.jpg&t=1

I support amnesty for anyone who used one of these to enter our country.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Or Spring Boots.



or a jet pack

[LnGrrrR]

I support amnesty for anyone who used one of these to enter our country.

:lmao

[ElNono]

or a jet pack

Or KITT.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/90996465_fafc85fd64.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

It's technically and economically feasible to build a barrier they wouldn't want to cross. Might get a few blown up before they realized we were serious, though.

[ChumpDumper]

It's technically and economically feasible to build a barrier they wouldn't want to cross. Might get a few blown up before they realized we were serious, though.Do you advocate making the border a minefield?

[LnGrrrR]

or a jet pack

Or a chainsaw-hand.

http://www.walyou.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/evil-dead-2.jpg

[LnGrrrR]

It's technically and economically feasible to build a barrier they wouldn't want to cross. Might get a few blown up before they realized we were serious, though.

Economically feasible =/= economically sound

[ElNono]

Do you advocate making the border a minefield?

Would be really interesting to see how you effectively put mines in Rio Grande... :lol

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/BDX/BDX119/mines-water_~bxp27273.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you advocate making the border a minefield?

That would be one one way to do it. Put up 2 chain link fences on the US side 400 yards apart. Clearly mark that anything between the fences dies. No exceptions. Drones, sensors, mines, whatever works.

I'm just saying it's technically feasible.

[ChumpDumper]

That would be one one way to do it. Put up 2 chain link fences on the US side 400 yards apart. Clearly mark that anything between the fences dies. No exceptions. Drones, sensors, mines, whatever works.

I'm just saying it's technically feasible.So you don't advocate it.

[CosmicCowboy]

So you don't advocate it.

Not really. I'm not sure theres a better answer, though.

[LnGrrrR]

That would be one one way to do it. Put up 2 chain link fences on the US side 400 yards apart. Clearly mark that anything between the fences dies. No exceptions. Drones, sensors, mines, whatever works.

I'm just saying it's technically feasible.

It would really suck if someone was sent out to check/repair the fences and they forgot to turn off all the sensors.

[clambake]

why not just shoot every mexican (or anyone that might resemble a mexican) if they don't have a greencard stapled to their forehead?

[rjv]

how many of these voters even know how much it would cost and how ineffective the portions that have been built up to this point have been ?

[rjv]

That would be one one way to do it. Put up 2 chain link fences on the US side 400 yards apart. Clearly mark that anything between the fences dies. No exceptions. Drones, sensors, mines, whatever works.

I'm just saying it's technically feasible.

but not the least bit legally... but thanks for the moot hypothetical

[CosmicCowboy]

but not the least bit legally... but thanks for the moot hypothetical

It is perfectly legal to build high security "kill" fencing as long as it is well marked.

[clambake]

lol cowboy wants his iron curtain.

[CosmicCowboy]

lol cowboy wants his iron curtain.

If and when the Narcos officially take over Mexico you might want it too.

[ChumpDumper]

Eh, we made the narco kingpins rich with our failed "war" on drugs.

[Blake]

or a David Blaine

:lol

[clambake]

Eh, we made the narco kingpins rich with our failed "war" on drugs.

always blaming the US. you flaming lib.

[MannyIsGod]

The Narcos are already in control of Mexico. LOL @ thinking a minefield will stop them though. LOL @ thinking mining our side of the border is an option.

I don't understand why we don't just build a giant moat and fill it with alligators.

[clambake]

The Narcos are already in control of Mexico. LOL @ thinking a minefield will stop them though. LOL @ thinking mining our side of the border is an option.

I don't understand why we don't just build a giant moat and fill it with alligators.

good idea. farm out the video rights to national geographic.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think our govt should govern based on daily polling data!

[CosmicCowboy]

Personally I think we should legalize pot to partially de-fund the narcos but that will never happen.

And yeah, I think a 400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone would dramatically slow things down.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think our govt should govern based on daily polling data!

Bama already does.

[ChumpDumper]

And yeah, I think a 400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone would dramatically slow things down.Are you advocating a 400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone?

[DarrinS]

Are 68% of Americans racists?

[MannyIsGod]

Are 68% of Americans racists?

No, but 68% and then some are pretty fucking ignorant and stupid.

PS Not one person mentioned racism till you did. :toast

[TeyshaBlue]

Or a trebuchet.

Fucking elitist!:lmao

[Blake]

good idea. farm out the video rights to national geographic.

crikees!

[ChumpDumper]

Are 68% of Americans racists?Un hombre de paja.

[CosmicCowboy]

Are you advocating a 400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone?

I have already articulated in here what I would do about illegal immigration and it had nothing to do with a fence.

[Trainwreck2100]

no love for stilts here? Just walk right over

[MannyIsGod]

no love for stilts here? Just walk right over

lol

[ducks]

would work
but it might kill hispanics and that would be bad
it would be racist to protect the boarder
even though whites and blacks could cross the boarder to

[boutons_deux]

USA can't afford spending of 10s of $Bs on no stinkin fence.

The deficit must be reduced. If we lower taxes, then that will pay for the fence.

[ChumpDumper]

I have already articulated in here what I would do about illegal immigration and it had nothing to do with a fence.And it had nothing to do with a 400 yard wide kill zone?

[ElNono]

It is perfectly legal to build high security "kill" fencing as long as it is well marked.

So what you do with the underground tunnels?

[Blake]

http://www.southparkstuff.com/images/stories/epiimgs/epi913/epi913img45.jpg

the Mexican Aeronautics and Space Administration could get people over

[ElNono]

Ironic that the same people that celebrated the downfall of the Berlin wall now contemplate this...

[boutons_deux]

Berlin Wall was, afaik the only wall in history, to keep people in, imprisoned.

[DarrinS]

Ironic that the same people that celebrated the downfall of the Berlin wall now contemplate this...

Fail

[ElNono]

Fail

How so? What's so different from a '400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone'?

[baseline bum]

Anyone see the Penn & Teller Bullshit when they went down to Home Depot, got a few illegals to build a fence to the same specifications as the border fence, and then try to cross it by different means? One group climbed over the top, another dug under it, and the last just cut right through it. I don't think it took any of them more than 5 minutes if I remember correctly. What a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.

[ChumpDumper]

Anyone see the Penn & Teller Bullshit when they went down to Home Depot, got a few illegals to build a fence to the same specifications as the border fence, and then try to cross it by different means? One group climbed over the top, another dug under it, and the last just cut right through it. I don't think it took any of them more than 5 minutes if I remember correctly. What a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.The sections of fence that have already been built have been breached over 3,000 times.

It costs over a thousand dollars to repair each breach on average.

[MannyIsGod]

It takes a special type of moron to imagine a fence keeping people out when they just crossed thousands of miles of deadly desert.

Hi, Darrin.

[CosmicCowboy]

So what you do with the underground tunnels?

seismic sensors. explosives. That or just wait till they pop out of the hole and shoot em like prairie dogs.

[George Gervin's Afro]

can't we just use illegals crossing the border as target parctice?

[ChumpDumper]

seismic sensors. explosives. That or just wait till they pop out of the hole and shoot em like prairie dogs.But you do not advocate such things.

[Blake]

http://www.southparkstuff.com/images/stories/epiimgs/epi913/epi913img45.jpg

the Mexican Aeronautics and Space Administration could get people over

aww.....I lost the MASA rocket picture

[rjv]

It is perfectly legal to build high security "kill" fencing as long as it is well marked.

the border is not private property. it is an international boundary to which international laws would apply.

[CosmicCowboy]

the border is not private property. it is an international boundary to which international laws would apply.

Thats why you step back and put it on the US side.

[jack sommerset]

Thats why you step back and put it on the US side.

And shoot anyone that crosses it illegally.

[CosmicCowboy]

But you do not advocate such things.

It's all hypothetical. We could seal that border if we wanted to.

[ChumpDumper]

It's all hypothetical. We could seal that border if we wanted to.But you don't advocate it.

[rjv]

Thats why you step back and put it on the US side.

great, let's go ahead and put US citizens at risk as well.. and this would still not be regarded as "private property" except as to where it was that of a landowner, and not all landowners would necessarily have to abide by the fence as is evidenced by the lawsuits that were already pending regarding the construction of the fence upon private property.

[ChumpDumper]

great, let's go ahead and put US citizens at risk as well.. and this would still not be regarded as "private property" except as to where it was that of a landowner, and not all landowners would necessarily have to abide by the fence as is evidenced by the lawsuits that were already pending regarding the construction of the fence upon private property.No, they want 400 yard kill zones on their property. CC would love having that on his ranch.

Hypothetically.

[CosmicCowboy]

No, they want 400 yard kill zones on their property. CC would love having that on his ranch.

Hypothetically.

If they can get 12K for a 170 class whitetail I wonder what I could get for a drug runner hunt?

[ChumpDumper]

I wonder what I could get for a drug runner hunt?Are you advocating a commercial drug runner hunt?

[admiralsnackbar]

Berlin Wall was, afaik the only wall in history, to keep people in, imprisoned.

I'm sure that's what they told their polity, too -- none of these horror stories we hear in this country about alien hordes who will undermine our whole way of life if we don't fence their disease-ridden, morally-deficient thief-bastard asses out!!!

vcG47CpsU6c

[CosmicCowboy]

Are you advocating a commercial drug runner hunt?

Sure chump. Or maybe a bounty like they have for coyotes. Just turn their ears in for cash.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure chump. Or maybe a bounty like they have for coyotes. Just turn their ears in for cash.OK, it's good to see your finally advocating something.

[CosmicCowboy]

OK, it's good to see your finally advocating something.

:lmao

http://www.grandslamflyfishing.com/tinymce_asset/file/6/Setting_the_hook.jpg

[admiralsnackbar]

If they can get 12K for a 170 class whitetail I wonder what I could get for a drug runner hunt?

Ah... the most dangerous game :lol

Too bad they'd have more firepower and killer instinct than, say, John Wayne.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ah... the most dangerous game :lol

Too bad they'd have more firepower and killer instinct than, say, John Wayne.

not necessarily.

[ElNono]

seismic sensors. explosives. That or just wait till they pop out of the hole and shoot em like prairie dogs.

How far down you go with the explosives?
How are you going to shoot them if you don't know where the exit is?

[CosmicCowboy]

How far down you go with the explosives?
How are you going to shoot them if you don't know where the exit is?

:lmao

http://www.grandslamflyfishing.com/tinymce_asset/file/6/Setting_the_hook.jpg

[ElNono]

So you have no idea...

[CosmicCowboy]

So you have no idea...

:lmao

hook, line, and sinker.

[Spurminator]

You know, given the amount of money we already waste, my attitude towards this is basically fuckit. If it doesn't do anything to secure the boarders we can laugh at everyone who thought it was a good idea. If it works? Bonus.

[Blake]

:lmao

http://www.grandslamflyfishing.com/tinymce_asset/file/6/Setting_the_hook.jpg

ah, so this explains many of your posts.

I just thought you were stupid.

[CosmicCowboy]

ah, so this explains many of your posts.

I just thought you were stupid.

With you, I didn't have to wonder. I knew.

[CosmicCowboy]

How far down you go with the explosives?
How are you going to shoot them if you don't know where the exit is?

Seriously, it's simple. The technology was developed in the 1960's here in San Antonio (Southwest Research) for finding tunnels in Viet Nam. Simple portable seismic stuff. I'm sure they have perfected it even more since then. Drive your detection vehicle down the south fence every couple of weeks. Find a tunnel 30' down? No problem. Mark it. Bring in a little pickup mounted drill rig. Drill a 2" borehole down till you hit tunnel. Back up two bobtail tanker trucks. One with LOX and one with LPG. Drop the hoses down the bore hole. Turn on the valves. Fill the tunnel with Natural gas and O2. Back off 200 yards and ignite. Look South. That mushroom cloud? That's where the tunnel started. The tunnel diggers? If they didn't get incinerated in the initial blast, and the fuel/air bomb didn't completely crater the tunnel (it would) the blast still sucked all the oxygen out. Dead diggers.

After you blow up a couple hundred tunnels under construction it's gonna be awful hard for the narcos to hire tunnel diggers.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

:lol @ Cowboy hiding behind hypotheticals

[CosmicCowboy]

Well guys, get a grip on what SEALING the border would take. killing narco's IS the ultimate deterrent to penetration. Your average illegal wouldn't even attempt it.

[LnGrrrR]

Well guys, get a grip on what SEALING the border would take. killing narco's IS the ultimate deterrent to penetration. Your average illegal wouldn't even attempt it.

I don't think anyone's saying that killing people crossing the border would be an effective deterrent. However, would it be worth the time, money and effort to put a system in place to do that? What about possible negative repercussions?

It's easy to say that we could fix our economy by just having everyone invent things that everyone needs; much harder in practice.

[ElNono]

Seriously, it's simple. The technology was developed in the 1960's here in San Antonio (Southwest Research) for finding tunnels in Viet Nam. Simple portable seismic stuff. I'm sure they have perfected it even more since then. Drive your detection vehicle down the south fence every couple of weeks. Find a tunnel 30' down? No problem. Mark it. Bring in a little pickup mounted drill rig. Drill a 2" borehole down till you hit tunnel. Back up two bobtail tanker trucks. One with LOX and one with LPG. Drop the hoses down the bore hole. Turn on the valves. Fill the tunnel with Natural gas and O2. Back off 200 yards and ignite. Look South. That mushroom cloud? That's where the tunnel started. The tunnel diggers? If they didn't get incinerated in the initial blast, and the fuel/air bomb didn't completely crater the tunnel (it would) the blast still sucked all the oxygen out. Dead diggers.

After you blow up a couple hundred tunnels under construction it's gonna be awful hard for the narcos to hire tunnel diggers.

The last tunnel found was up to 90 feet deep, 5 feet high, and 2400 foot long. It included lights, a ventilation system and a water drainage system. It went from Tijuana to San Diego. Now, this is at a time where they're not really desperate.

You're simply not going to stop these people from selling their shit to the number one drug consumer in the world. They move as much money as you can throw at this problem.

Plus there's always the human factor. It gets to a point where it's cheaper to corrupt somebody to let you pass the stuff if it comes to that.

This is exactly like the war on drugs. A good excuse to burn through money without tangible results.

[ElNono]

Well guys, get a grip on what SEALING the border would take. killing narco's IS the ultimate deterrent to penetration. Your average illegal wouldn't even attempt it.

Uh? The average illegal risk their lives every time they try to cross and they're fully aware of it. Death is certainly not a deterrent in this case.

[Wild Cobra]

Ironic that the same people that celebrated the downfall of the Berlin wall now contemplate this...
The Berlin was was to keep people in. This one is top keep people out.

[CosmicCowboy]

You guys are still trying to put me in that stereotype republican box.

I'm saying that for all the politicians (democrat and republican) that are "for" sealing the border it's impossible. The ONLY way to do it is something as draconian as I just facetiously proposed and they would still find a way to get drugs into the country.

I say legalize, regulate, and distribute pot. Take the narcos bread and butter away from them. Come up with a very reasonable and easy to get green card system. The trade off is they agree to stay in the system and pay a tax (10%?) Make it in employers best interest to hire green card aliens ( no matching SS and Medicaid, no WC or UC) and the fine the everloving hell out of the employers that still hire the undocumented workers. Get caught here illegal? You're going back to Mexico in a cattle truck today if we don't put your ass in jail for whatever law you broke that brought you to our attention.

Amend the 14th amendment. It's outlived it's time. It was put in place to make sure all slave children would have citizenship. We haven't had slaves for 150 years. Fuck this anchor baby bullshit.

OK, my proposal isn't perfect and I'm sure you guys will get hardons trying to shoot holes in it...chump will sit back and go "does this mean you...(fill in the blank)"

whatever.

Lay your fucking plans on the table.

[Wild Cobra]

Amend the 14th amendment. It's outlived it's time. It was put in place to make sure all slave children would have citizenship. We haven't had slaves for 150 years. Fuck this anchor baby bullshit.

---

Lay your fucking plans on the table.
I would like to see that done, but that is a difficult task.

How about making declaring a ward in each border hospital as Mexican soil, leasing it to Mexican doctors for a very reasonable monthly rate. Then when a child is born, they are given a Mexican consulate birth certificate?

Now I know there are some legal issue I'm not aware of, but why couldn't a wing of a hospital be declared such?

[DMX7]

I wonder how many people will support it when they find out how much it'll cost and just how worthless it'll be.

[ElNono]

The Berlin was was to keep people in. This one is top keep people out.


What's so different from a '400 yard wide fully enforced kill zone'?

[ElNono]

You guys are still trying to put me in that stereotype republican box.

I'm saying that for all the politicians (democrat and republican) that are "for" sealing the border it's impossible. The ONLY way to do it is something as draconian as I just facetiously proposed and they would still find a way to get drugs into the country.

I say legalize, regulate, and distribute pot. Take the narcos bread and butter away from them. Come up with a very reasonable and easy to get green card system. The trade off is they agree to stay in the system and pay a tax (10%?) Make it in employers best interest to hire green card aliens ( no matching SS and Medicaid, no WC or UC) and the fine the everloving hell out of the employers that still hire the undocumented workers. Get caught here illegal? You're going back to Mexico in a cattle truck today if we don't put your ass in jail for whatever law you broke that brought you to our attention.

Amend the 14th amendment. It's outlived it's time. It was put in place to make sure all slave children would have citizenship. We haven't had slaves for 150 years. Fuck this anchor baby bullshit.

OK, my proposal isn't perfect and I'm sure you guys will get hardons trying to shoot holes in it...chump will sit back and go "does this mean you...(fill in the blank)"

whatever.

Lay your fucking plans on the table.

I think there's two different issues here that need to be separated because IMO they need to be addressed separately.

1) Drug trafficking through the border
2) Illegal immigration

I agree with your angle about the drugs problem. Just give it up with the war on drugs, at least partially. You give the green light to recreational stuff, regulate the shit out of them, and tax it to death. Just as long as the price is not way higher than the black market, it should work.

The immigration part is a lot more complicated. There's just simply too many variables. Ideally, I would like a system where actual legal residents and even citizens are not 'suspected to be illegal aliens unless proven otherwise'.
I don't necessarily know what that system would look like.
There's definitely a lot of enforcement at the federal level that could be done and it's not being done. There's also a meeting point in almost every town where dozens illegals show up waiting to be picked up for a day of work.
Here is the local train station. They're there every day in plain sight. There's no way LE doesn't know, or can't alert ICE.

So, I think we can do a lot better with the system that we already have.
We can also improve in certain things. For example, almost half of the illegals in the country didn't enter illegally. So before handing out tourist visas, require a blood test if you're a female, and if it shows she's pregnant, just deny the visa. In general I think the country needs to be more strict about handing out visitor's visas. Then there's technology. Make everyone visiting a hospital or clinic to scan their thumb fingerprint or get an iris scanned. Share that data with ICE. You don't have to detain anybody or deny service to anybody at that time, but at least ICE can track who is where and potentially be in the lookout for them. For citizens or legal residents it's not really a problem since they're already giving out their personal info as part of obtaining services anyways. Just some ideas. I'm sure there's more out there that are non-intrusive and would be just as effective.

Even if you can't kill all illegal immigration, if you can at least halve it by resolving the most glaring issues that can be attacked, then it will be a great start.

[ElNono]

I would like to see that done, but that is a difficult task.

How about making declaring a ward in each border hospital as Mexican soil, leasing it to Mexican doctors for a very reasonable monthly rate. Then when a child is born, they are given a Mexican consulate birth certificate?

Now I know there are some legal issue I'm not aware of, but why couldn't a wing of a hospital be declared such?

lol thinking this happens in border hospitals only...

Plenty of illegals here in NJ having their babies... specifically in this area, mostly Brazilians.

[CosmicCowboy]

So wheres Chumps plan?

Or do you just prefer jumping around like a flea taking little bites out of everyone else instead of doing any substantial thinking on your own?

[Stringer_Bell]

We need a concrete wall, not a fence. Patrol it with predator drones, dispatch National Guard/Border Patrol as needed.

The only problem with it is if you need to GET OUT, but hey, why would anyone wanna do that?

[boutons_deux]

"We need a concrete wall, not a fence. Patrol it with predator drones, dispatch National Guard/Border Patrol as needed."

Who pays for the spending? There's a big deficit the right-wing says won't support any further spending.

[CosmicCowboy]

We need a concrete wall, not a fence. Patrol it with predator drones, dispatch National Guard/Border Patrol as needed.

The only problem with it is if you need to GET OUT, but hey, why would anyone wanna do that?

Have you ever been on the Texas border with Mexico (not at a major town) ? Get West of Del Rio and it's fucking rugged wasteland for hundreds of miles. Sealing the border against low tech penetration with just a wall (walking, biking, etc.) and a "slap on the wrist" if you cross it is impossible.

[Blake]

With you, I didn't have to wonder. I knew.

http://www.grandslamflyfishing.com/tinymce_asset/file/6/Setting_the_hook.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder how many people will support it when they find out how much it'll cost and just how worthless it'll be.
What?

The fence, or the hospital idea?

Both I think would be worth while.

[LnGrrrR]

WC, I dont' think your hospital idea would be constitutionally permissible. The law of the land applies everywhere the land is. The only exceptions I could think of might be something like a consulate, and that brings its own issues.

CC, you talk about an easier green card, but easier in which way? Less fees/paperwork? Less stringent background checking? Greater numbers allowed annually?

[CosmicCowboy]

WC, I dont' think your hospital idea would be constitutionally permissible. The law of the land applies everywhere the land is. The only exceptions I could think of might be something like a consulate, and that brings its own issues.

CC, you talk about an easier green card, but easier in which way? Less fees/paperwork? Less stringent background checking? Greater numbers allowed annually?

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

[ChumpDumper]

So wheres Chumps plan?I have already stated it, dumbass.


Or do you just prefer jumping around like a flea taking little bites out of everyone else instead of doing any substantial thinking on your own?I have already stated it, dumbass.

Don't get pissy because I don't repeat it, dumbass. You did the same thing, dumbass.

[CosmicCowboy]

I have already stated it, dumbass.

I have already stated it, dumbass.

Don't get pissy because I don't repeat it, dumbass. You did the same thing, dumbass.

I remember a lot of others ideas but not yours. Must have been pretty weak. So weak, in fact, you are ashamed to even cut and paste them here since you apparently know where they allegedly are.

[LnGrrrR]

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

Well, I can tell you from personal experience the paperwork certainly isn't "easy". It's relatively comprehensive. But the things that are in there are mostly for security. Would you be willing to accept less security screening/background checks done? Also, the other problem I see is that if you use less stringent screening, people might use something like a fake ID, then apply for a green card later using their real name. (Just throwing out possible concerns, not sure about their feasibility.)

As far as the greater numbers allowed, I'm ok with that, but I'm sure alot of people might not be. (People who think there's too many over here already.)

[TDMVPDPOY]

why not build a army base on the border? target practice on live bait

[Wild Cobra]

WC, I dont' think your hospital idea would be constitutionally permissible. The law of the land applies everywhere the land is. The only exceptions I could think of might be something like a consulate, and that brings its own issues.

CC, you talk about an easier green card, but easier in which way? Less fees/paperwork? Less stringent background checking? Greater numbers allowed annually?
I think the consulate idea would work, as long as we pay legal Mexican doctors and nurses to operate it.

An easier green card? You mean Amnesty lite?

As far as I know, when employers bring in workers from other countries, they have to in effect sponsor them and pay enough so they don't require social services. If this type of process is what you mean, then OK.

[Wild Cobra]

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.
Still, how do you maintain immigration quota's, or will this be a means for business to replace all US citizens with cheaper labor?

[Wild Cobra]

why not build a army base on the border? target practice on live bait
You mean like a barracks every 1/4 mile and 24/7 soldiers 100 yards apart?

Works for me.

[ElNono]

Mainly easier paperwork and greater numbers allowed. Make them check back in every 6 months and prove they have been working for an "on the books" employer that has withheld their taxes. If they have been working off the books then get the name of the employer and go get the tax/fine from him. If they don't check in and stay in the "on the books system" they can't ever get another green card. If they don't have a job they need to go back.

It's not perfect and you will have people beat it but it's a start.

That's not a green card though. That's a temporary worker type of visa.

H1B and the sort... a green card is a permanent resident and is not tied to work.

[ElNono]

As far as I know, when employers bring in workers from other countries, they have to in effect sponsor them and pay enough so they don't require social services. If this type of process is what you mean, then OK.

To hire a temporary immigrant you need to prove that you're going to pay him more than market value and also show that you tried to hire locally and were unable to do so (you need to show newspaper clips of your ads requesting help, etc). On top of that, you need to show that the person coming over is qualified. It's very rare you'll see a H1B holder without a college education.
The entire process can easily take a whole year.

Obviously, this is all the actual legal way to do things, which has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

[ElNono]

I think some of you need to inform yourself better of how the current system works. I see quite a bit of uninformed opinion here.

[Wild Cobra]

To hire a temporary immigrant you need to prove that you're going to pay him more than market value and also show that you tried to hire locally and were unable to do so (you need to show newspaper clips of your ads requesting help, etc). On top of that, you need to show that the person coming over is qualified. It's very rare you'll see a H1B holder without a college education.
The entire process can easily take a whole year.

Obviously, this is all the actual legal way to do things, which has nothing to do with illegal immigration.
Yes, I'm aware of that. When I worked at LSI, we had a few with Visas. However, jobs like these are jobs of skill that pay well. That's basically my point. No socialized hospitalization or food stamps required. If we are to allow low wage jobs to do the same, I say OK, as long as the employer takes up the slack, rather than the tax payer.

[Winehole23]

Reported the SA Express-News (http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/between-the-fence-and-the-border/nfBwm/) (3/12):


Because of the snaking course of the Rio Grande, which marks the international boundary with Mexico, the border fence was built on top of the levee, in some places a mile or more from the river, marooning thousands of acres of bucolic farmland, native habitat sanctuaries and private landowners on its southern flank.


Today, there are roughly 56 miles of border fence and wall in the Rio Grande Valley alone, none of which changed the underlying character of the land — what was farmland before remains farmland today.


Yet, critics argue, the fence not only disrupts communities and impedes residents’ ability to move freely the nearer they are to the fence, it has also created a “Constitution-free” region where Border Patrol enforcement faces less oversight.


“What they’ve essentially created is a no-go zone,” said Joseph Nevins, associate professor of geography and chairman of earth science and geography at Vassar College, who studies the U.S.-Mexico border and is familiar with the Rio Grande Valley. “The very act of being in a particular place invites suspicion.”


At least three times in recent years, witnesses reported that Border Patrol agents shot and killed people along the Texas-Mexico line without justification. One man in Matamoros was fatally shot from across the Rio Grande in Brownsville in July 2012.


Late last week, the Border Patrol directed its agents to limit their use of force in certain situations [details here (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-border-shootings-20140308,0,630084.story#axzz2vTxiStsy)] after a recent report by independent law enforcement experts criticized the Border Patrol for a policy that led to the killing of at least 19 people.


For its part, the agency says agents are authorized to search any vehicle between the fence and the river if they have “reasonable suspicion” that unauthorized immigrants are aboard.

This is exactly the sort of dystopic scenario that made me oppose a border fence in the first place. As Grits wrote in 2008 (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2008/08/border-fence-or-dam.html), "From the moment Congress first proposed putting a wall along the Rio Grande on Texas' southern border to reduce illegal immigration, I thought it was not just a bad idea but an insane one. As far as I can tell, when it's finished the United States will be the first nation state in the history of the planet to wall off a major river and leave the river on the other side!"


Border patrol officials insisted “it’s not a no man’s land” because “We are out there [and] … so are aliens and smugglers.” But to me, that's the definition of a "no man's land" - a place where the lack of legitimate public life breeds lawlessness, both by emboldening criminals and removing constitutional restraints from authorities. And because most illegal immigration happens at the checkpoints (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2008/01/its-checkpoints-stupid-border-wall-wont.html), the wall has done little to achieve the goal of reducing it. "More immigrants illegally enter the United States through the Border Patrol’s Rio Grande Valley Sector than any other," reported the McAllen Monitor last fall (http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/article_37cd986e-1f18-11e3-b5f2-001a4bcf6878.html).


So, what exactly was the point of building that monstrosity again?http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2014/03/border-fence-created-dystopic-no-mans.html

[Winehole23]

On February 4 in Dallas, Abbott announced his “Securing Texans” plan, a $300 million proposal to add 1,000 “boots on the ground” in a “continuous surge” or “permanent border shield” along the Texas-Mexico border.

“We must do more to protect our border going beyond sporadic surges,” the Texas Tribune reported Abbott as saying. “As governor, I will almost double the spending for DPS border security.”


At the announcement, Abbott cited specific examples of public corruption, with every example occurring on the border—in Cameron, Hidalgo and Starr counties.


He then added the controversial remark: “This creeping corruption resembles third world country practices that erode the social fabric of our communities and destroy Texans’ trust and confidence in government.”


As Abbott addressed El Pasoans this week, he added, “Our porous border is allowing ruthless cartels and violent transnational gangs to operate more freely within the state of Texas.”


“Gangs like the Barrio Azteca, the Texas Syndicate, Tango Blast and countless others are infiltrating schools across the state,” he continued.


It sounds terrifying. It’s meant to sound terrifying. It’s election season.


However, the facts tell a different story.


1. Barrio Azteca, Mexican Mafia and Tango Blast are prison gangs born and bred in Texas, not Mexico.



While Barrio Azteca and other prison gangs in the state are framed as “Mexican” or “border” gangs, the fact is that many of these criminal gangs are not a product of Mexico, they’re a product of Texas—more specifically, they’re a product of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice (TDCJ).


Barrio Azteca was formed in 1986 as a prison gang in the Coffield Unit of TDCJ. The Coffield Unit is located in Anderson County, about 100 miles southeast of Dallas.


The gang was formed by five El Paso inmates, living in the unit, to protect themselves from established Texas prison gangs, including the Mexikanemi and the Texas Syndicate.


The Mexikanemi, also known as the Texas Mexican Mafia, was founded in the Texas prison system in the early 1980s and the Texas Syndicate was founded in Folsom Prison in California during the early 1970s.
Tango Blast, another gang cited by Abbott, emerged in the late 1990s in prisons in Houston, Austin, Dallas and Fort Worth.


Of these prison gangs, none were founded on the border. Nevertheless, since the 1980s, Barrio Azteca has evolved into a violent transnational criminal organization.


“In the 2000s, the (Barrio Azteca) formed an alliance in Mexico with ‘La Linea,’ which is part of the Juarez Drug Cartel (also known as the Vincente Carrillo Fuentes Drug Cartel or ‘VCF’),” according to a June 2012 DOJ statement. “The purpose of the (Barrio Azteca)-La Linea alliance was to battle the Chapo Guzman Cartel and its allies for control of the drug trafficking routes through Juarez and Chihuahua.”


At the time, Barrio Azteca operated by purchasing drugs at a discount from their Mexican supplier and then distributing the drugs to street dealers. Those dealers were then required to pay “taxes” to Barrio Azteca collectors.


“When (the “tax”) is collected by the (Barrio Azteca), members and leaders deposit the money into the commissary accounts of incarcerated (Barrio Azteca) leaders, often using fake names or female associates to send the money by wire transfer,” continues the DOJ statement. The incarcerated gang leaders then “receive laundered funds and disperse it within the Texas State prison system to further the criminal goals of the enterprise.”


Unfortunately, Barrio Azteca isn’t the only gang operating across borders from within our prison system. According to a 2008 analysis by Austin-based intelligence firm Stratfor, “there are at least nine well-established prison gangs with connections to Mexican drug cartels” within the United States.


In addition, “white supremacists groups, mixed-race motorcycle gangs and African-American street gangs also have formed extensive alliances with Mexican cartels,” the Stratfor analysis says.


So, the reality is clearly more complex than the campaign rhetoric. If there is “spillover violence,” it flows not only south to north, it flows north to south, from Texas to the border and into Mexico.

http://newspapertree.com/articles/2014/02/13/from-the-tree-4-ways-greg-abbott-gets-the-border-wrong

[Winehole23]

As much as sex trafficking is discussed in reference to the border, it rarely makes the headlines in El Paso.


Well, that changed in dramatic fashion earlier this year when an El Paso County juvenile probation officer and former UTEP football player, Timothy McCullouch Jr., was charged in federal court with sex trafficking and sex trafficking of a minor.
Others charged in the scheme were Deion “Memphis” Lockhart; Brandon Shapiro, aka “Chicago” and “B’radd;” Tai Von “Trigg” Lynch; Richard “Crenshaw” Gray; and Emmanual “E Jay” Lockhart.


“Court records allege that the defendants have been involved in the forced prostitution of juveniles and adults by the Folk Nation/Gangster Disciples street gang between May 2012 and March 2013,” according to January press release from the FBI.


“The defendants used a combination of force, fraud, and coercion to compel their victims to engage in sexual activities for money in El Paso; Killeen, Texas; Albuquerque, New Mexico; Las Vegas, Nevada; and in Colorado,” the release continues.


Furthermore, the El Paso Times reported last month, “Authorities said the case is linked to an incident in March in which El Paso police arrested two suspected pimps after they allegedly beat a woman at the Super 8 Motel on Gateway East near Cielo Vista Mall.”
In that incident, Folk Nation/Gangster Disciples members Kiry Hakeem Nalls and Grant Rutledge were indicted in federal court on forced prostitution charges.


As it turns out, McCullouch is not a Mexican citizen, nor is he from the border.


He’s a US citizen originally from Long Beach, California.


As for the Gangster Disciples, the street gang emerged in Chicago in the late 1960s; and Folk Nation is an alliance of street gangs also from the Chicago area.
Is the answer a $300 million “continuous surge” along the Texas-Oklahoma border? Would that protect our children and make El Paso safer?

same

[Winehole23]

Rather than more “boots” on the banks of the Rio Grande, the state might set its sights on the banks of Wall Street.


In 2010, federal prosecutors disclosed that Wachovia (now Wells Fargo), Bank of America and London-based HSBC Holdings had laundered billions in illicit drug cartel money over multiple years.


Wachovia alone admitted that it had laundered $378.4 billion from 2004 to 2007.


Jeffrey Sloman, the federal prosecutor on the case, was quoted by Bloomberg as saying, “Wachovia’s blatant disregard for our banking laws gave international cocaine cartels a virtual carte blanche to finance their operations.”


Bloomberg also reported that, “Federal agents caught people who work for Mexican cartels depositing illicit funds in Bank of America accounts in Atlanta, Chicago and Brownsville, Texas, from 2002 to 2009.”


Transnational criminal organizations involve much more than the street dealer. Like any major private enterprise, drug production, distribution and monetization logically requires a broad and reliable network of bankers, attorneys, accountants, logistics specialists, IT administrators and other professionals.

same

[Winehole23]

DPS border surge becoming baked in, local and county police worry about attrition:

http://www.texastribune.org/2015/08/19/border-counties-fear-loss-veteran-police-dps/

[boutons_deux]

Ben Carson Open To Using Drone Strikes At The Border

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ben-carson-border-drone-strikes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

[SpursforSix]

Ben Carson Open To Using Drone Strikes At The Border

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ben-carson-border-drone-strikes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

Awesome.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ben Carson Open To Using Drone Strikes At The Border

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ben-carson-border-drone-strikes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

Yawn. We are already using surveillance drones.

[Pelicans78]

Bomb the fuck out em. Nuke em.

[boutons_deux]

Yawn. We are already using surveillance drones.

surveillance is NOT what the brainless surgeon is suggesting.

[CosmicCowboy]

You can't ever have an effective immigration policy unless you first seal the porous border.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Ben Carson Open To Using Drone Strikes At The Border



http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ben-carson-border-drone-strikes?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

[RandomGuy]

You can't ever have an effective immigration policy unless you first seal the porous border.

That is a bit like saying we can't have an effective immigration policy unless you first build a bridge to to the moon.

Not sure I buy that the two are necessarily linked, or that "sealing the border: is even possible.

[CosmicCowboy]

That is a bit like saying we can't have an effective immigration policy unless you first build a bridge to to the moon.

Not sure I buy that the two are necessarily linked, or that sealing the border is even possible.

Why even have passports if we aren't going to have a secure border?

[CosmicCowboy]

If you legislate that illegal immigrants can become citizens without effectively closing the border you are opening citizenship up to the entire world.

[Winehole23]

You can't ever have an effective immigration policy unless you first seal the porous border.you can't have free trade with a sealed border.

are we going to be secure or commercially great? pick one...

[CosmicCowboy]

You can replace the word "sealed" with "controlled" if you prefer. and i'm OK with fining employers that don't use E-verify and hire illegal aliens. I run all my new hires through e-verify. It also catches child support issues.

[boutons_deux]

You can replace the word "sealed" with "controlled" if you prefer. and i'm OK with fining employers that don't use E-verify and hire illegal aliens. I run all my new hires through e-verify. It also catches child support issues.

is e-verify as inaccurate at credit scores?

[CosmicCowboy]

is e-verify as inaccurate at credit scores?

e-verify has nothing to do with credit scores.

[hater]

I employ a good number of illegals. They are my best workers tbh. My business would fail if I employed 100% lazy American citizens :lmao

[pgardn]

I employ a good number of illegals. They are my best workers tbh. My business would fail if I employed 100% lazy American citizens :lmao

BS

[hater]

:rolleyes

Could care less if you believe me or not.

Illegal are a blessing in my business. Work hard and keep the lazy sobs on their toes. Of course I don't advertise it :lol

[pgardn]

:rolleyes

Could care less if you believe me or not.

Illegal are a blessing in my business. Work hard and keep the lazy sobs on their toes. Of course I don't advertise it :lol

Could Not care less.

And BS

[hater]

Also surprisingly, the illegal are cleaner than American citizens. Always smell like fresh soap cheap soap but soap non the less.

[hater]

Oh and I could care less. Just chose not to :lol

[Winehole23]

You can replace the word "sealed" with "controlled" if you prefer. and i'm OK with fining employers that don't use E-verify and hire illegal aliens. I run all my new hires through e-verify. It also catches child support issues.using e-verify at the site of employment is what you meant by sealing the border?:lmao

[Winehole23]

CC is either a terrible liar, or totally carried off by hyperbole. no reasonable person would confuse "sealing the border" with using e-verify inside the country as part of the hiring process.

[boutons_deux]

I expect Repugs to pay the $10Bs to build the fence and $100Ms/year to maintain and man the fence by cutting the safety net, like kids health insurance, school lunches, federal aid to public schools.

btw, I see where some schools plan to charge parents $600/year for their kids to ride in school buses. And if the school buses are privatized, that $600 will certainly rise a lot. rentier capitalism, per ardua ad nauseaum

[CosmicCowboy]

using e-verify at the site of employment is what you meant by sealing the border?:lmao

no

Two different opinions in the same post. Until we have a system that identifies and registers the people that are here illegally we won't ever solve our illegal immigration problem. There has to be a carrot/stick with the people that hire illegal aliens.

pick a date...say...September 1st. All illegals in the country have to register, do a background check, and get a work permit, and pay taxes. Employers that hire them after that date without a work permit get the shit fined out of them. New illegal immigrants after that date don't get work permits.

[hater]

No illegals would register.

Unless you can guarantee their rights and protection and that they wont be deported. I know lots of illegals. Them ngas would rather live in a cardboard box than go to la migra :lol

[boutons_deux]

IA Radio Host Jan Mickelson: Enslave Undocumented Immigrants Unless They Leave

Iowa radio host and influential conservative kingmaker Jan Mickelson unveiled an immigration plan that would make undocumented immigrants who don't leave the country after an allotted time "property of the state," asking, "What's wrong with slavery?" when a caller criticized his plan.

On the August 17 edition of his radio show, Mickelson announced that he had a plan to drive undocumented immigrants out of Iowa that involved making those who don't leave "property of the state" who are forced into "compelled labor," like building a wall on the US-Mexican border.


JAN MICKELSON: Now here is what would work. And I was asked by an immigration open border's activist a couple of weeks ago, how I would get all the illegals here in the state of Iowa to leave. "Are you going to call the police every time you find an illegal, are you going to round them up and put them in detention centers?"

I said, "No you don't have to do any of that stuff."

"Well you going to invite them to leave the country and leave Iowa?"

And I said, "Well, sort of."

"Well how you going to do it, Mickelson? You think you're so smart. How would you get thousands of illegals to leave Iowa?"

Well, I said, "Well if I wanted to do that I would just put up some signs."

"Well what would the signs say?"

I said, "Well I'd would put them on the end of the highway, on western part of the interstate system, and I'd put them on the eastern side of the state, right there on the interstate system, and in the north on the Minnesota border, and on the south Kansas and Missouri border and I would just say this: 'As of this date' -- whenever we decide to do this -- 'as of this date, 30--' this is a totally arbitrary number, '30 to 60 days from now anyone who is in the state of Iowa that who is not here legally and who cannot demonstrate their legal status to the satisfaction of the local and state authorities here in the State of Iowa, become property of the State of Iowa.' So if you are here without our permission, and we have given you two months to leave, and you're still here, and we find that you're still here after we we've given you the deadline to leave, then you become property of the State of Iowa. And we have a job for you. And we start using compelled labor, the people who are here illegally would therefore be owned by the state and become an asset of the state rather than a liability and we start inventing jobs for them to do.

"Well how would you apply that logic to what Donald Trump is trying to do? Trying to get Mexico to pay for the border and for the wall?"

"Same way. We say, 'Hey, we are not going to make Mexico pay for the wall, we're going to invite the illegal Mexicans and illegal aliens to build it. If you have come across the border illegally, again give them another 60-day guideline, you need to go home and leave this jurisdiction, and if you don't you become property of the United States, and guess what? You will be building a wall. We will compel your labor.

You would belong to these United States. You show up without an invitation, you get to be an asset. You get to be a construction worker. Cool!'


When a caller confronted Mickelson and said his plan amounted to "slavery," Mickelson replied, "What's wrong with slavery?" Mickelson told the caller his plan was "moral," "legal," and "politically doable" and should be modeled after Maricopa County (Arizona) Sheriff Joe Arpaio's "tent village"

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2015/08/19/ia-radio-host-jan-mickelson-enslave-undocumente/205020

[Winehole23]

voluntary registration is what you meant by sealing the border?

you're all over the place, CC

[boutons_deux]

e-verify has nothing to do with credit scores.

I'm saying banks, etc have 100Ks of errors in credit scores, always in the public's disfavor. Is e-verify verifiably accurate, challengeable?

[pgardn]

Oh and I could care less. Just chose not to :lol

It must be nice to find yourself so entertaining.

And full of BS...

[boutons_deux]

voluntary registration is what you meant by sealing the border?

you're all over the place, CC

Repugs would rather spend $10Bs building, maintaining, manning their fantasy border wall than legalize 11M immigrants get collect $100Bs in taxes, SS, and productivity.

Repug nativists, xenophobes, Euro-white supremacists don't have any real, workable solution to their dreamed-of border security.

But they've done pretty well with their austerity governance to retard the recovery from their Banksters Great Depression, which actually caused a net outflow of immigrants.

[CosmicCowboy]

Repugs would rather spend $10Bs building, maintaining, manning their fantasy border wall than legalize 11M immigrants get collect $100Bs in taxes, SS, and productivity.

Repug nativists, xenophobes, Euro-white supremacists don't have any real, workable solution to their dreamed-of border security.

But they've done pretty well with their austerity governance to retard the recovery from their Banksters Great Depression, which actually caused a net outflow of immigrants.

It's not about legalizing the 11 million that are here. It's about stopping the next 11 million from illegally entering the country.

Also, your statistics are 3 years out of date as usual. We are currently having a net inflow of illegals.

[boutons_deux]

It's about stopping the next 11 million from illegally entering the country.

the Repugs will never do anything, they just campaign on it, rouse you Euro-white rabble types to vote Repug.

[pgardn]

the Repugs will never do anything, they just campaign on it, rouse you Euro-white rabble types to vote Repug.

Well then what's the problem?

[boutons_deux]

Well then what's the problem?

Ask the Repugs, they're the ones campaigning on Euro-white supremacy.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ask the Repugs, they're the ones campaigning on Euro-white supremacy.

More rabid unfounded Boutons claims.

[DMX7]

What are the facts regarding undocumented workers paying taxes? How much are we getting in tax revenue? Are they really filing tax returns?

[CosmicCowboy]

What are the facts regarding undocumented workers paying taxes? How much are we getting in tax revenue? Are they really filing tax returns?

Obviously they pay state and local sales tax. Without a SS# or work permit they obviously can't register and pay into the federal income tax system.

[DMX7]

Obviously they pay state and local sales tax. Without a SS# or work permit they obviously can't register and pay into the federal income tax system.

I agree with the first sentence. However, are employers really not withholding any taxes?

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree with the first sentence. However, are employers really not withholding any taxes?

Many of them work in the underground economy and work for cash. Painters, home repair, Lawn service, tree trimmers, etc. There is a whole pack of mostly illegal tree trimmers that follow the brush pickup service around here in San Antonio. There will be an english speaking hispanic local fronting and he will hire the illegals to do the work for cheap cash.

[m>s]

A lot of us would volunteer to help remove them for free

[DMX7]

Many of them work in the underground economy and work for cash. Painters, home repair, Lawn service, tree trimmers, etc. There is a whole pack of mostly illegal tree trimmers that follow the brush pickup service around here in San Antonio. There will be an english speaking hispanic local fronting and he will hire the illegals to do the work for cheap cash.

Sounds logical... but is there any actual comprehensive research out there?