Both KG and Duncan > Olajuwon

[phxspurfan]

So I just finished watching game 5 of the 94 finals: Rockets vs. Knicks. Dream looked like he was in his prime. On one play he went elbow-above-the-rim for a putback jam and on another play did the Dream Shake on Ewing about 20 feet out baseline to tie the game after 3 quarters. But after having seen all this I still say Duncan was better, and so was KG.

KG, in his prime had a better fake-out fadeaway move and was more athletic and a better rebounder than Dream. Duncan had a much better back-to-basket post game and better court vision (and equal to better bball instinct, or IQ) than Dream.

Both KG and Duncan played for the most part with far inferior supporting casts as well. In this game, Dream was flanked by Thorpe, a decent rebounder, Maxwell a vet guard, a young Horry, Elie, Kenny Smith and Cassell. Hell even Carl Herrera was ballin.
Tbh it kind of makes me sick actually that Dream gets this much respect over guys like Duncan. Put Duncan in a Houston uni in the 90s (again I'm gonna be sick lol) and he wins the 2 'ships dream won plus 2 more from Jordans Bulls. Put KG in there and he's the inventor of the Shake and a 2-time champ.

[midnightpulp]

Shit storm ensuing in

5

4

3

2

...

[Veterinarian]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154843

[midnightpulp]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154843

:tu

[phxspurfan]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154843

Yeah Ive seen that thread. This one is specifically referring to he mid 90s championship years and compares a sub of KG or TD in his place. I argue Dream was overhyped as a better player than he actually was. He was simply a great player, but not on TD or even KGs level.

[phxspurfan]

Come on man, didn't you just see Kori lay down the law with this stupid trolling.

How is this trollng? Do you know what a real take is? I laid out an argument with premises, assumptions and a conclusion. Then defended it's orginality against a similar thread. If anything, this is the opposite of trolling and definitely not my 'shtick,' as I just developed the opinion after having watched a game tonight.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

Hakeem>>>>>>>>KG

Hakeem not only went back to back, but he did without another true star which is amazing. It's hard to imagine KG doing that.

It's pretty close with Duncan. Duncan obviously had a better career but in his prime I'll take the Dream. He was just a freak of nature with no weaknesses in his game, a man among boys. Blocking shots, sometimes leading fastbreaks, making that midrange jumper, facing up and blowing by post players. The man was a joy to watch.

[Veterinarian]

Yeah Ive seen that thread. This one is specifically referring to he mid 90s championship years and compares a sub of KG or TD in his place. I argue Dream was overhyped as a better player than he actually was. He was simply a great player, but not on TD or even KGs level.

Maybe you should read that thread and you would realize how dumb your thread is.

[LkrFan]

a) :lmao

b) :rollin

c) :bang

d) all of the above

Answer: d - for dumbass thread.

[phxspurfan]

Hakeem>>>>>>>>KG

Hakeem not only went back to back, but he did without another true star which is amazing. It's hard to imagine KG doing that.

It's pretty close with Duncan. Duncan obviously had a better career but in his prime I'll take the Dream. He was just a freak of nature with no weaknesses in his game, a man among boys. Blocking shots, sometimes leading fastbreaks, making that midrange jumper, facing up and blowing by post players. The man was a joy to watch.

A lot of guys seemed to have that skillset in the 90s. Barkley and DRob come t mind first. I say this because I thought the same thing about Dream until I watched this playoff game and saw guys even like Anthony Mason playing the wing role and running (however terribly) on the break. Obviously some did it way better tuan others but I think because most of the 7 rooters we see nowadays are more plodding guys a la Big Z, Oden etc. We are all thinking it was the same 15 years ago. But it looks more to me like a lot of big guys ran the floor more back then.

[phxspurfan]

A lot of guys seemed to have that skillset in the 90s. Barkley and DRob come t mind first. I say this because I thought the same thing about Dream until I watched this playoff game and saw guys even like Anthony Mason playing the wing role and running (however terribly) on the break. Obviously some did it way better tuan others but I think because most of the 7 rooters we see nowadays are more plodding guys a la Big Z, Oden etc. We are all thinking it was the same 15 years ago. But it looks more to me like a lot of big guys ran the floor more back then.

Wow I hate typing posts on the iPhone. Stupid text replacement screwed up so many words...

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

A lot of guys seemed to have that skillset in the 90s. Barkley and DRob come t mind first. I say this because I thought the same thing about Dream until I watched this playoff game and saw guys even like Anthony Mason playing the wing role and running (however terribly) on the break. Obviously some did it way better tuan others but I think because most of the 7 rooters we see nowadays are more plodding guys a la Big Z, Oden etc. We are all thinking it was the same 15 years ago. But it looks more to me like a lot of big guys ran the floor more back then.

You think so?

The 3 guys you listed, Barkley, Robinson, and Olajuwon, imo were just freaks of nature. To me it seems like we have a lot more athletic bigs today then back then with the stretch 4. You need a big who is mobile enough to guard those stretch 4's such as Dirk, Rashard Lewis, Amare, Bosh, Anthony Randolph, etc.

Hakeem did a lot of those things at 7 feet tall which is what made him so amazing

[phxspurfan]

You think so?

The 3 guys you listed, Barkley, Robinson, and Olajuwon, imo were just freaks of nature. To me it seems like we have a lot more athletic bigs today then back then with the stretch 4. You need a big who is mobile enough to guard those stretch 4's such as Dirk, Rashard Lewis, Amare, Bosh, Anthony Randolph, etc.

Hakeem did a lot of those things at 7 feet tall which is what made him so amazing

Yeah definitely if you start counting the 6'10" guys there are a ton of mobile bigs now, so I guess there was only a couple true freaks of nature back then.

But yeah when I thought of guys like Anthony Mason playing I used to just think it was a product of the old eastern conference slow pace bball at the time, but they played big lineups that could run too. I was surprised to see Mason and Horry doing post entry passes from the wing (like SFs) and scrambling for the ball at midcourt like guards, but they did.

[duhoh]

not to put too much stock into stats, but there's a good reason why the dream logged so many 5x5s.

[Drachen]

Yeah definitely if you start counting the 6'10" guys there are a ton of mobile bigs now, so I guess there was only a couple true freaks of nature back then.

But yeah when I thought of guys like Anthony Mason playing I used to just think it was a product of the old eastern conference slow pace bball at the time, but they played big lineups that could run too. I was surprised to see Mason and Horry doing post entry passes from the wing (like SFs) and scrambling for the ball at midcourt like guards, but they did.

I just really liked that clip of Robinson stealing the ball and leading the break while outrunning jordan and dunking on him. That was true greatness right there LOL.

[Koolaid_Man]

So I just finished watching game 5 of the 94 finals: Rockets vs. Knicks. Dream looked like he was in his prime. On one play he went elbow-above-the-rim for a putback jam and on another play did the Dream Shake on Ewing about 20 feet out baseline to tie the game after 3 quarters. But after having seen all this I still say Duncan was better, and so was KG.

KG, in his prime had a better fake-out fadeaway move and was more athletic and a better rebounder than Dream. Duncan had a much better back-to-basket post game and better court vision (and equal to better bball instinct, or IQ) than Dream.

Both KG and Duncan played for the most part with far inferior supporting casts as well. In this game, Dream was flanked by Thorpe, a decent rebounder, Maxwell a vet guard, a young Horry, Elie, Kenny Smith and Cassell. Hell even Carl Herrera was ballin.
Tbh it kind of makes me sick actually that Dream gets this much respect over guys like Duncan. Put Duncan in a Houston uni in the 90s (again I'm gonna be sick lol) and he wins the 2 'ships dream won plus 2 more from Jordans Bulls. Put KG in there and he's the inventor of the Shake and a 2-time champ.

whatever....that's bout as true as you getting pussy on the regular....

[Killakobe81]

LOL if this a REAL thread ...

Duncan i can see ...(don't agree but i think it's debatable and close)

but no disrespect to KG but ANYONE that says KG is better than hakeem needs to get their basketball knowledge pass revoked ...and KG used be on of my favorite players ...

Funny thing is ...I bet the OP is one of those that used to argue KG was overrated when people said he was BETTER than Duncan ...

and i remember those arguments on here and other NBA forums ...

[JMarkJohns]

Hakeem's surrounding teammates are vastly being overrated by the original poster. Was there talent? Sure, but every player was little more than a role player. Case and point being the claim that even Carl Herrera and his whopping 5 ppg, 4 rpg was "ballin".

Most of the players mentioned were spot-up shooters and good defenders. Thorpe was a quality PF, but wasn't even borderline All-Star caliber, and he was the second best player on the team.

The reason it worked was Olajuwon's post game. Duncan has elements, but how effective would it be against actual centers, not just power forwards? Garnett has never shown the willingness to play the post on offense, so the assertion that Garnett would do as much with this little is absolutely laughable since he had arguably a better team in 2003-04 than this Rockets team and did far less.

But I don't believe the OP actually believes this. Duncan, as has been said, is debatable, but the inclusion of Garnett is laughable. Garnett on that team guides them to 45 wins and maybe a playoff birth. Garnett has been a #2 parading around as a #1 for his entire career.

[duhoh]

Hakeem's surrounding teammates are vastly being overrated by the original poster. Was there talent? Sure, but every player was little more than a role player. Case and point being the claim that even Carl Herrera and his whopping 5 ppg, 4 rpg was "ballin".

Most of the players mentioned were spot-up shooters and good defenders. Thorpe was a quality PF, but wasn't even borderline All-Star caliber, and he was the second best player on the team.

The reason it worked was Olajuwon's post game. Duncan has elements, but how effective would it be against actual centers, not just power forwards? Garnett has never shown the willingness to play the post on offense, so the assertion that Garnett would do as much with this little is absolutely laughable since he had arguably a better team in 2003-04 than this Rockets team and did far less.

But I don't believe the OP actually believes this. Duncan, as has been said, is debatable, but the inclusion of Garnett is laughable. Garnett on that team guides them to 45 wins and maybe a playoff birth. Garnett has been a #2 parading around as a #1 for his entire career.

heck yes :toast

no way does garnett do a back to back with them rockets squads

[JMarkJohns]

Garnett never changed the game on both ends of the floor as well as Hakeem. In his prime, Olajuwon averaged 4 blocks and 1+ steals per game, with several seasons of 4 blocks and 2 steals per game. Couple this with Olajuwon's prime average of 13+ rpg and I think the assertion that Garnett was a better rebounder and implication he was as good or better a defender are just as laughable as the claims made for offense.

The OP said Garnett was a better rebounder. Maybe for that season statistically, but I doubt Garnett averages 12 rpg alongside a 10 rpg PF. Aside from the fact that Garnett was too much of a 7-foot pussy to even play C, and therefore wouldn't be playing alongside another 10+ rpg PF, Garnett never dominated the boards alongside other rebounding dominance, and Hakeem played his entire career alongside Sampson (10+ rpg average with Houston) and Thorpe (9+ rpg average with Houston) (EDIT, and Barkley). Take them away, Hakeem likely averaged 16/17 boards per game.

It's funny, OP would probably defend Duncan for this very same reason (playing many years alongside Robinson), but has completely overlooked this for Hakeem.

Hakeem was appreciably better in every facet of basketball, save for pussy turn-around fade-away jumpers. This is excusable within the greater context of what each player accomplished, and against whom it was accomplished (or not, in Garnett's instances).

LMAO at Garnett winning with a 14 ppg Thorpe, 13 ppg Maxwell and 11 ppg Smith when he couldn't win with a 20 ppg Cassell, 18 ppg Sprewell, 10 ppg Szczerbiak... Similar players, unsimilar results, and against weaker competition.